Forming Leaders of Character | Leaders in the Arena Podcast

Speaker A: M welcome to Leaders in the Arena. I'm Johnny Whitener, the Executive Director for the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. Leaders in the arena is about real stories, hard earned insights and practical guidance from leaders doing the work of leadership. And in the arena at the Brock Barnes center for Leadership, we've worked to equip servant leaders to faithfully build institutions and communities in Christ's work of making all things new. In order to do that, we have M4 major capabilities. Our Institute for Student Leadership, the Institute for Innovation and Impact, our Executive Education capability, and then of course, our Wisdom and Insight series. Which brings me to today's program and our very special guest, Jonathan Marshall, who is part of our our executive leadership and development team here at Brock Barnes center as an intern. He's a rising senior at Covenant College. And Peyton Price, who is an incoming Falls Church Fellow, recent graduate of Covenant College and has also been serving as an intern this summer with the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. Welcome you two.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker C: Jenny, thanks so much for having us.

Speaker A: Yeah, so glad to be here. Now, I know there are a lot of lessons on leadership that we are going to talk about together. But first, you know how I always start, start. I want to hear a little bit about your own personal leadership journey, a little bit about you personally so our audience will know you like I know you. So maybe we'll start with Peyton. You're at the top of my screen. Maybe just introduce yourself a bit more, uh, to our audience and then we'll turn it over to Jonathan.

Speaker B: Hi everybody. My name is Peyton Price. Um, like Jenny said, I just recently graduated from Covenant College over about two months ago in May. I studied finance there along with minors in economics and biblical and theological studies. I'm originally from the West Coast, Salem, where I lived there for over 15 years before moving on to Covenant over in Lookout Mountain, Georgia. I'm one of four kids, um, and I have two wonderful parents and a step parent as well.

Speaker A: Great, great. So a lot of time on lookout in the last four years and excited just to hear about your fellowship. And I hope you'll stay in touch. I know you will once you relocate. And Jonathan, give us the intro please.

Speaker C: Yeah. My name is Jonathan Marshall. I will be a senior at Covenant in the fall. I'm studying psychology. Uh, I am the second child. Uh, my dad is a pastor in the PCA and I'd say that's really where my interest in leadership started, was seeing him lead in the church and in ministry, uh, and have been, uh, very grateful to get to learn more through working with the Brock Barnes Center.

Speaker A: So great. And we are very thankful for you and for Peyton. The season of planning for the upcoming academic year for the Brock Barnes center has been made possible, but beside the, because of uh, the amazing work that you two are leading. So thank you so much for your leadership and for your commitment to Christ centered leadership through Brock Barnes. All right, let's get started. Today we are going to unpack servant leadership and um, Brock Barnes. When we think about that in our mission statement, equipping servant leaders to faithfully build institutions and communities, what we've done with our leadership council here at Covenant College is to identify four to five major competencies that we feel really embody servant, ah, leadership. And one of the first ones that we explore when we're talking about servant leadership is humility. When we think about humility, we are talking about leading and learning with a posture that is Christ centered, that's humble, that's collaborative. And so Peyton, let's start with you. I want to know that, you know, we've had some great people speak into your life. I'm sure over the years that have changed how you look at humility. What's been a big light bulb moment for you when you've, um, reflect on that and you stop and you think about humility and you think about collaboration, what comes to light with the lessons that you've learned in this area?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a huge. Humility is a huge thing to unpack. Jenny. Um, so I think what first pops into my mind when I think about the word humility, um, I think it's CS Lewis who said the quote, humility is not thinking less of yourself. Um, it's thinking of yourself less. Um, and for me, I come from a lot of, uh, while I was in college and before college, doing a lot of student leadership positions and roles, student body president, all of those kinds of things. Um, and one of the things I've really learned, um, thankfully through a lot of actual really cool resources, um, with the Brock Barnes center, like the DISC assessment, um, and other assessments, you begin to learn how you function, how you, um, relate yourself to other people. And for me, I've always been a verbal processor, um, collaborator, I'd say an optimist. Um, and my brain is always firing all of these ideas and I mainly just get energy from working with people in a room. And I think the temptation is for young people like me and Jonathan and all the other young professionals and students out there is to, uh, kind of just jump in and share all your ideas at once and you want to kind of prove that you belong in the room with all these people. Um, and I think I really struggled with that for quite a long time of I wanted to make sure I was in the know. Learning how to say I don't know what's going on or not being assuming I was one of the smartest people in the room was always such a challenge to really grow. And one of the things I really learned from, um, all of the wonderful leaders who poured into my life, um, and watching them lead is that humility really isn't about shrinking back from that energy and that enthusiasm and those ideas you bring. It's really more changing about how you actually use that energy. Instead of going more self centered and wanting to do it from a perspective, I have to do this and get my way kind of using that energy instead to be collaborative and be curious rather than to dominate. Um, so kind of a story that pops into my mind. Um, when I was at Covenant, I served as a class president on the student side. So, um, a representative of the student body. I was working with the junior class at that time. One of the role, one of the tasks you have to do in that role is to manage clubs. So Covenant, for those of you watching that don't know, has about 20 to 30 different clubs, um, that are all student led. Um, and each of them get a bunch of money and funding, um, every year to put on events and create community. Um, and one of the roles that the class residents have to do, there's four of them, is to be kind of like the advisors, advocates and kind of like managers, um, stewards in a way of the money that's given. Um, and a lot of times what you find being a young student is you think really, really highly that you can get all of these things done and you want to plan so many events and so many things to really just uplift those around you, um, and use all that money. But you end up finding as the semester goes on that time becomes a lot harder to come by. M and you get busy with a lot of things. So I remember I had a club leader that I was working with that had so many great ideas and we got his budget approved. I advocated for him and got them all the money that they wanted. And then about midway through the semester they're not hitting their targeted goals of spending the money and actually putting those events on. Um, and I remember I felt like every single time I would have a meeting with this person they would just something was coming up in their life and nothing was getting done. And it really felt like I was hitting a wall every single time. I remember just going to my supervisor. Her name's Lena Glaze. She's the coordinator of student leadership. Um, she's fantastic. Um, and she kind of just sat down with me, and I was just outpouring these kind of frustration to her of, I feel like I can't get anything done with this person. It's all their fault. And rather, one of the things that she told me was like, how are you coming across to this person? Are you coming across as someone who's super prideful and thinks they know what's going on in every single situation? Or are you actually coming across as a humble servant? Because first and foremost, your job is to be a servant, leader for this person, to be an advocate and to be a guide and to be a helper to them. Um, so. And I just remember her speaking into that life of going into every meeting with Grace, um, and just working with them, because it's not just another person you're talking to. It's another image bearer of God, um, that you're treating and working with. So build that relationship rather than having it be cold and professional. Um, so I ended up actually sitting down with that person. We went out to lunch together, and I learned a lot more about their life. They had so many things going on that I had no idea about. Um, and through that collaboration, meeting and talking, getting to actually know them on a deeper level, I found way better ways to help them work with it, to volunteer and help out with their club events, to make sure that those events could happen in time. Um, so I think just summarizing that up, it's not trying to win the room or get your way all the time, or it's really thinking back less of yourself and thinking of others more. Um, and I think one of the things I would say again is just the intensely curious, uh, Bryony Moon, who is my supervisor, uh, at the admissions department when I was an ambassador, always talked about this type of holy curiosity, unreasonable hospitality, working with people. I, um, think that big light bulb moment for me was realizing I'm never the smartest person in the room. And there's always someone that I need to work with, um, and care about others more than myself.

Speaker A: What a great story. What a great story. Thanks for sharing. You know, you know, because you've been helping us build out the Brock Barnes center, but when we think about humility, I 100% agree with you. You are spot on. We define it at the Brock Barnes center as placing others above self while remaining teachable. There's your curiosity, embracing a posture of continuous learning, openness to feedback, and a willingness to grow. And I think what you're sharing is that you had one of those moments where you had an opportunity to really build that muscle. And you also mentioned about how we use instruments like disc or 360 degree feedback instruments, those kind of things, to open up our mindset on self awareness. And when we think about this faithfully, we think about it through Philippians 2, 3, where we hear, do nothing far from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourself. Um, so great words of wisdom on humility. Thank you so much, Peyton. I want to turn a minute to Jonathan and uh, talk about our next characteristic of servant leadership, integrity. Jonathan, talk to me about how you would define integrity and what does it mean? Can you think of a story or a leader that's modeled that in your life?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I think my mind goes back to a leader who told me that integrity comes from the idea and the roots of wholeness, of being a whole person, which really means being the same person, uh, no matter what room you're in. Um, so you're acting in alignment with your values and your beliefs in every situation that you're in. Uh, and that was really impactful because that also takes a lot of courage to be honest with yourself about the areas where you're living one way and maybe saying a different thing. Um, and so I think it's super applicable as a student. And then as I think about going into the workforce, um, you know, am I living in alignment with my values as a leader at work as well as at home as well as at church? And what does that look like? And that takes a lot of wisdom. Um, but I think about the story of Daniel in Scripture, about how he was taken, uh, to a new place with new practices and different, um, different belief system. And really it required a lot of courage for him to continue to live in alignment with, uh, with the Lord and what, what the Lord's will was for him. Uh, but he continued to, to do that and to push, uh, hard to, to stay fast to what he was believing in. Uh, and there's risk involved with that. I think in living with integrity there, there is an element of, uh, sometimes telling the truth can be uncomfortable and it can have uncomfortable consequences. Um, but it does, it takes a lot of courage. Um, and it also, I think, builds a lot of credibility too. Um, when you make a mistake and you have the honesty to say, look, I, ah, messed up here, you take ownership. That is, I think, uh, one of the biggest opportunities to showing integrity.

Speaker A: Right. And it really connects with a little bit of what Peyton was talking about. Humility. Like a leader who has the courage to say, I made it a mistake and to own it, um, to ask for forgiveness from the team or ask for support and help from the team, that shows that they're being humble and that they're operating with a great sense of integrity. You know, a lot of things that we look at at Brock Barnes is we start to get more insight about how we see ourselves and how others see us or these personality, um, instruments and surveys and that kind of thing. Um, is there any comment that you would share about, you know, working with different leaders, have different personality styles and how integrity shows up, um, with these differences and leadership styles, but then is consistent in character? I mean, anything come to mind there?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think about a leader who said, if the world was full of Ginny Whiteners and Peyton Price and Jonathan Marshalls, then there'd be a lot of things. If it was only us, uh, three, there'd be a lot of things that wouldn't get done. Uh, and if there were, if we weren't here, there'd be a lot of things we'd miss out on too. And so just the idea of particularity in leadership, uh, there's such a gift with the unique styles and talents and different leadership approaches, um, that we each bring and we need those differences. Um, but at the same time, thinking about personality and different styles as kind of the foundation on which character is built, um, we each have unique weaknesses that we then have to think about and be aware about and ask for feedback about and then grow from there. Uh, and that maps onto. Okay, what are the character traits that I really need to be thinking about based on my specific temperament as a leader? Um, and I think we think about balance a lot of times with leadership. Uh, I think about the scripture verse that talks about speaking the truth in love. And certain personalities, I think, can really easily speak the truth. And sometimes the love part is lacking. And certain personalities are really good at the love part, but aren't as good about speaking the truth. Um, and rather than thinking about balancing those things, it's about holding them in tension, um, and knowing with yourself, okay, as a leader, I might have a little more tendency towards speaking the truth and not having a loving manner as I'm doing that, or the opposite and holding Those things in tension and really asking the Lord to gift you in the ways that, uh, our temperament might kind of, uh, not equip us well, so.

Speaker A: Right, right. Observations. You know, at the Brock Barnes center, we define integrity as aligning actions with values, consistently choosing honesty and moral courage, even when it's difficult or unseen. And I think you've helped us to unpack that a bit and learn more about integrity from a scripture standpoint. We reference Proverbs 10, 9. Whoever walks integrity, walk securely. But whoever takes a crooked path will be found out. And so thank you for helping us explore integrity a little bit more today. Jonathan, let's go on to another one of our leadership competencies that we explore, and that's one of my favorites, courage. Peyton, help me think through courage. When we hear the word courage, we usually think of huge heroic moments. But how do you practice courage in your life? Bring it home for us, you know,

Speaker B: Courage is a funny one, Jenny. Um, I think the world has so many different definitions and courage looks different for everybody. Um, for some people it might be. For me, I'm afraid of heights. I'm so scared to fall someday. And so if I'm walking on a bridge or something like that, it can be seen as courageous to just stand on the side. Versus for me personally. And the one that kind of comes to mind is, um, honestly, my default. I talked about. I'm an optimist. I like. I think Jonathan spoke into this too with saying, like, for some people, they don't want to be the bad guy in the room. They don't want to be the person who is going against the group think or going against, um, any of just the main ideas. And I think he said it so well that there's a tension. Um, and sometimes conflict can just be so easy to just brush under the rug because it's unpleasant. Um, and for me, sometimes it's just keep everybody happy and keep moving. And I really think one of the things I've appreciated about the summer is I feel like we're in an environment that has so much structure and stability that those, those conversations can happen. Um, and sometimes we do brush them under the rug. Other times we put them up there and we have feedback and we, and we talk about it. Um, and when things get like, highly chaotic or ambiguous, that's when we start to feel pressure. And for me, I think what I'm learning, that true courage is actually fighting the urge to just smooth things over. Um, and throughout. I'm not going to say a specific story, um, but I Think throughout my time at Covenant, working in leadership positions, working with different committees and organizations for the administrative side of the college, um, there are definitely times where it's just the easier thing to not say what you stand for and not to just brush under the rug and not rock the boat. Um, and I think sometimes we begin to not think about the people that we're surrounded by. That truly, at least at Covenant, when I was working there, being surrounded by so many people who care so deeply about the mission, the values and the organization that they really actually do want to hear when they think something's going off the rails because you're in a safe space to give that criticism, to give that feedback, to challenge those deep issues. Um, and I would just encourage anyone who is like me, naturally, and wants to just keep everything happy all the time, or not rock the boat. But sometimes that can end up being a way bigger issue down the line. Um, and in those moments, all it takes is standing up once, standing up and doing it one time, and then you might change the entire perspective of an organization or the entire perspective on an issue or topic. And usually I've also learned that I just think there's no such thing as a dumb question. I think it's Carl Sagan who said that. But when you get into it, going over every single detail is such an important thing to do. And in the moments like that, you kind of realize that courage isn't always like, charging straight into battle. Sometimes it's just hitting pause. Um, when everyone else is just rushing and it's pushing past the desire just to be liked, to be a people pleaser, and having the guts to actually ask those hard questions. At least that's what it is for me.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I'm sure there's so many other areas. And sure, Jonathan could speak into it as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think oftentimes people will think about courage. They think about having the guts, right, to stand firm, or as we define it at Brock Barnes, acting with conviction and faith in the face of uncertainty, risk, or opposition, especially when standing for what is right. That goes back to this courage to have integrity, the courage to have humility, and how these attributes really weave together. But great story about how, you know, just not glossing over things, calling them out, acting with conviction and intentionality, how important that is for us as servant leaders. We look at this Biblically from Joshua 1:9. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you Go. And I always think of that bubble verse as kind of like, keeping it right in my head, right when I want to, like, face something that needs a lot of courage. So let's go on. I know we are getting close on our time, so I want to make sure that we get through to our next, um, major, um, competency of servant leadership. And that is stewardship. So, Jonathan, I want to invite you to talk with me a little bit about stewardship, uh, in terms of, you know, pouring into the next generation, you know, shepherding, uh, others. Stewardship. Talk to me a little bit about stewardship.

Speaker C: Yeah. The story that comes to mind about stewardship. This past year, I had the honor of being an RA or resident assistant at Covenant College for a hall of about 25 guys on Summit in Carter Hall. Uh, and before the year, we did this retreat where we went and we had some training and the resident director, Stephen Dillon, kind, uh, of our leader and mentor throughout the year. He started it off, um, just by really emphasizing that we're stewards and we're not the king. And the idea that, uh, our Heavenly Father has a plan, uh, for everything, uh, and he has an active role in everything that's happening. Uh, and we also have the blessing of getting to steward those gifts. Uh, whether it's a job or a talent or school, whatever it is, we have an active role in that. Uh, and I think that can take such a burden off of a leader and also be such a gift. Uh, I think about in the role of resident assistant, there's a lot of situations and times where you want to be able to control the outcome of a conversation, of how an event goes, of how a student's first year at college is going. And there's such a freedom in knowing that we have an active role and we have things, uh, to steward and to work really hard in our jobs and in what the Lord has called us to. But the Lord also is sovereign and has a plan. Um, and so there's such a freedom in the ability to recognize that we're stewards, we're not the king at the end of the day, uh, we've been blessed with these opportunities, uh, to take good care of them. Uh, and again, it's holding those things in tension, holding intention, our agency and our ability to work hard, and also the Lord's plan for. For everything that we're doing. So, yeah.

Speaker A: When you think about stewardship and how you defined it for us today, is there anything that comes to mind when you think about this connection between leadership and Stewardship?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I also think about as. As a young leader, all the people who have poured into me, uh, and. And the opportunity there is. They're just taking the gifts that they've been giving and they're sharing them. Um, they're sharing their wisdom and their insights, and they're passing them along. And so when you don't hold on to an outcome or a gift or a talent that you have, it does give you courage and humility. Uh, and you also have the opportunity to pass that along to. To the next leaders, um, which is really, what a wonderful gift to receive.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Uh, when you think about that, at Brock Barnes, we define stewardship as faithfully managing the people, resources, and opportunities entrusted to you for the benefit of others and for God's purposes. And we reference First Corinthians 4, 2, where it says, now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. And so I think that your story helps us to understand there's this responsibility of stewardship, both in terms of our own gifts, in terms of nurturing the next generation, bringing them along, helping our communities and our societies kind of renew themselves, kind of break through, um, get beyond sort of the fallenness, the brokenness that we see in our world. And this combination that you're talking about, this leadership and stewardship, in my mind, they're the same. Right. All leaders are stewards. Right. And then, as you said, that we're connecting humility and integrity and courage. All of that is really required when we think about stewardship. Um, you know, you come from a unique perspective still, being a student at Covenant, if you were going to kind of give some coaching to maybe some executives that are on listening today about mentoring the next generation. Any particular insights or guidance you would say about how to nurture the gifts of others that might be coming behind you?

Speaker C: Definitely would just first say thank you to all the mentors who are already, uh, guiding students along. And I, uh, think it may be easy to gloss over how impactful that can be. But I can think about in my life the mentors who have gone before and have shared the insights that they have about the specific stage of life that I'm in. Um, been invaluable. So first just saying thank you, but then just also, I think many students are seeking out, but it may be easy for a student to be intimidated, uh, about reaching out. And so, uh, what a blessing it is when a mentor reaches out and says, hey, like, I would love to get coffee, and I'd Love to discuss what you're thinking about after college and what you're thinking about in the next couple years. And, um, I think that invitation into that can take a lot of the pressure off and what a gift that is.

Speaker A: Absolutely great, great advice. So all of you are out there. Hopefully you'll take an action to reach out today to someone who's, uh, growing in their leadership and invite them to coffee, invite them to spend time and to pour into them. That'd be great. Um, Peyton and Jonathan, thank you so much for helping us unpack the characteristics of servant leadership, taking us through all the components of humility, integrity, courage and stewardship today. And I also want to personally thank you for the extraordinary job that you've done this summer in helping to build the next generation of the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. I, uh, know that God will bless you and your leadership going forward. You've done a great job for us here at Brock Barnes, so thank you so much for that. As we look at our next programming coming up, I'm excited to say in August 19th we'll have two great nonprofit leaders here in the Chattanooga region, Ashley and Ben Baldwin, who are the leaders of Mission Increase Chattanooga. They'll be talking to us about building mission centered organizations. So join us live if you'd like to to ask questions of those leaders. Or you can always listen to us on your favorite podcast, um, channel under Leaders in the Arena. As we close today, I want to take a moment to invite you to think about one lesson you've learned today and what practical step will you take to apply it to your own leadership. Jonathan and Peyton helped us to unpack servant leadership. Hopefully there's something that you heard today that you'll take to heart and want to apply as you leave our session today to hear more conversations with servant leaders and stay connected with the Brock Barnes center of Leadership. Subscribe to our newsletter at Brock Barnes. And if you'd like to support our mission of equipping the next generation of Christ centered leaders, you can always make a gift through the Give page at the Brockbarns Covenant.edu website. Thanks so much for listening today and God bless you. Peyton and Jonathan, thank you for helping out at the Brock Barnes center for Leadership.