Building Mission-Centered Organizations

Speaker A: Welcome to Leaders in the Arena. My name is Jenny Whitener, and, uh, I'm the executive director for the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. Leaders in the arena is about real stories, hard earned insights, and practical guidance from leaders doing the work of leadership and in the arena. We're brought to you today by the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. And, uh, we, um, are focused on equipping servant leaders to faithfully build institutions and communities in Christ's work of making all things new. And our guests today have an amazing story about that. The Brock Barnes center for Leadership does their work through four major capabilities. Our Institute for Student Leadership, the Institute for Innovation, and Impact, our education, uh, programs for our executives and corporations, and then our Wisdom and Insight series. Which brings me to today's program and our guest, Ashley and Ben Baldwin, Leaders of Mission Increase. Welcome, you two.

Speaker B: Thank you for having us, Jenny.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you.

Speaker A: It's so great to have you here today. The work that you're doing is amazing. You're having such an impact in the region with all the partners that you have at Mission Increase. Thank you so much for investing the time about coming on and talking to us about building organizations of impact. Um, but before we get started on our program, I really like to take a moment to give you guys a chance to introduce yourselves to our listeners today. And that means starting with your own personal leadership story. So if you wouldn't mind do your introductions. Maybe we'll start with Ashley, because you're top of my screen. And then I'll go to Ben.

Speaker B: Thanks, Jenny. It feels a little bit nostalgic to be here. Um, I think it's worth saying that Ben and I are both Covenant College grads, and we actually met at Covenant and got married after. As much as I said, I wouldn't be that person who succumbed to the marriage mill on the hill, but best decision I've ever made. So it just feels surreal, I think, to be here thinking about, like, the partnership work, Jenny, that we do with Brock Barnes, even with Mission Increase. Um, but a little bit about me and I think my journey. Um, I'm a transplant to Chattanooga, and I came here because of Covenant and then ended up staying and really had the opportunity to get involved in the nonprofit community right after school, um, at when I graduated from Covenant and very early on became an executive leader at a nonprofit here in town. I can say my age now because it's not as crazy because I'm so much older now, but I took on that role at 23 and it was a little wild. I'm not sure why people said yes to me, but um, that really just started I think, um, me on my leadership journey. And I think one of the things as I reflect from being there for about six years and then um, getting to work in another larger organization here in town, do some consulting and now being at Mission Increase, I think one of the through lines for me on my leadership journey is just the people that invested in me, um, and quicksight side story. But one of those people, Leslie Scarce, who I would not be in the nonprofit world in Chattanooga if it hadn't been for her. Someone at Covenant, Anthony Tucker, connected me to her. He didn't even know her, but she had served on a Brock, um, as a panelist on a Brock forum when I was in school. And he was like, you've got to know Leslie. She was a young leader. So I, um, think it's such a gift now having had so many people, um, pour into me as a young leader, to be able to be doing that now with other people, um, just serving nonprofits in our community and um, being cheerleaders and advisors and guides to them on their journeys.

Speaker A: Great. Well, thank you and thanks for being here and reminding us how important it is to pour into that next generation and to make the time for mentorship and sharing wisdom what you're doing today. Thanks. Ben, you're up. Give us a little background.

Speaker C: Awesome. Great. Yeah, thanks for having me here. Jenny. Um, Ashley mentioned that uh, we met at Covenant College and um, I think back to uh, my days there and I kind of say like, um, my relationship to leadership has always been a resistant one. Um, so even though I, uh, I got one of the scholarships there that was um, uh, felt important at the time, uh, I didn't like being associated with that scholarship. I didn't really want to be considered a leader, I think, um, but then also internally really wanted to be in charge of things, um, and at least have my ideas sort of brought to the forefront. And so I think a lot of my career, um, and um, even part of what I get to do today is reflective of that. Uh, and I think over time I feel like, um, me and God have reached ah, a good place where I think I can embrace the idea that there's opportunities for me to um, use the influence that God has given me. But I also think about um, mentors that I've had that have helped me realize that everything that I have today is a gift that God has given me. But it's not just God. It's God and other people, um, so everything that we own, everything that we are, is because God and other people have decided to give those things to us. And so I think when I'm living into that experience of sort of letting those things flow in and flow out of me, I think that's where I show up the most authentically. Um, and I think that's um, that's also where God, uh, used those gifts that he's given me, uh, to be of greatest service to those around me. Um, and I'll say too, um, when, um, when Ashley and I graduated, I, uh, wasn't too concerned about, um, what we would be doing. I was more concerned about making sure we had a roof over our heads. Uh, and so it's pretty special that, you know, fast Forward now about 15 years later, uh, we get to work together, um, and that we get to be partners, uh, at home, but also partners, um, at work. Um, I feel really privileged to get to do what I'm getting to do. And I think it's a lot of fun.

Speaker A: That's amazing. Great story. And I think, Ben, you remind us so many of our listeners are students and also of course working professionals. But I think reminding us that we're given gifts by the good Lord and we have to remember that and that uh, trusting, trusting in him that those doors will open. And also I think what I'm hearing you say is that we have a responsibility and there are times when we're going to move into a role and achieve that responsibility, but continue to be open to where the Lord's going to take you. And then, boom, look at the two of you now leading together at Mission Increase and all the impact that you're having. So thanks for sharing and thanks again for being here as we get started today. Yeah, as we get started today, I just wanted to make sure if we have listeners who've joined us live, you can register for our sessions live. If you have questions throughout today's session, if you'll just post those in the chat and we get to the end of today's program. If we have some special questions, I'll bring those forward to Ben and to Ashley. Today we're going to be talking about building mission centered organization. Something I know that is near and dear to your heart. It's your focus, it's all that you pour your gifts and energy into. Right now I want to start by helping, uh, our listeners hear about how to build a healthy organization that sustains impact. We can see organizations go into these growth curves and then almost flail. But for your Organization, Mission Increase. You're helping nonprofits in a multitude of maturity areas. Right? And so helping them create greater impact. Talk about that. Talk about the importance of organizational health and the nonprofits you're serving and the impact that they can have and the relationship with those things.

Speaker B: Big question. And we don't have three hours.

Speaker A: Huh?

Speaker B: Huh. I, um, actually want to let Ben share a few things that he's kind of working on in this space, but I'll just say, as we are a nonprofit for nonprofits, and a big part of what we do at Mission Increase is help organizations build capacity. Um, and I always like to joke around, like, we exist because nonprofits need so much more than donor dollars. And I think that's what you're talking about, Jenny, is we. We can't just solve all the world's problems through money, right? We have to know how to build healthy organizations. And I think that's one of the things we have found being in this space is just that, um, there's so many organizations that are started by so many, well, meaning incredible. And when I say incredible, I mean incredible. Like, I'm not out doing the work that they're doing for the pay that they're, you know, earning. But we. We don't know all the other parts of what it looks like to. To run a healthy organization. And I think, um, at least for us, I mean, I'm very passionate about finances and revenue generation. In the nonprofit world, we call that fundraising. Um, I'm really passionate about that. As you think about the growth curve that you were talking about, actually just had a coaching call with the leader the other day, and I had to kind of say, I think you think you're ready to open, and we're actually not, because our revenue is not in line with our programs. And so I think that's. That's a real thing that we face, is it's easy. The need is so great and so programmatically. It's so easy to say, we've just got to go faster. We've got to bump up the number, you know, the speed of the treadmill, but we don't have the revenue. And then that catches up with us years later, and all of a sudden, we're no longer sustainable. So that's one of the things I like to tackle with people. It's like, not just how are we caring for our donors, because that's a whole spiritual component. Like, God asks us to steward our money because something magical is happening as we give and receive, but, um, how do we how do we actually use that and use good and business practices to make sure our programming isn't outpacing, um, our revenue? So that's where my head kind of instantly goes. Right? Like we want to be able to pay the bills and there's nothing worse than living in crisis and feeling like you can't meet payroll.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well said. And I'll go to Ben in just a moment. But something that you were talking about, you know, early on in your introductions you were talking about being mentored. You're talking about your time at Covenant. I think sometimes as adults we think we finished our education. Right. And then when you're talking about capacity building, what you're saying is, no, that that growth curve continues. How do we continue to build skills? How do we build organizational uh, capability? And so that capacity building has to be a part of fulfilling that mission that you're dedicated to and leading a nonprofit. So I think you've helped us to see that growth continues. Right. And it's a continuous process and to lean into that. Ben, any comments that you would share about this concept of organizational health for Kingdom Impact?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think um, a lot pops to mind. So it's hard to pick which thing to talk about. Um, I think one of the things that's really important, um, that I often tell the nonprofit leaders when they're participating in programming with us is that um, my hope for them is, is that they leave feeling um, empowered to quit some things, um, and to focus on the things that are the most important. Um, part of my background, ah, and story, um, is as I had um, a real um, skepticism uh, of the business world, um, and sort of felt like uh, it was, it was sort of divorced from faith, that the real work of faith happens in the non profit space. And then after working in the corporate world for over a decade, um, I realized that actually the two really need each other. Uh, and that um, faith and business acumen actually can live uh, in the same place and they actually belong in the same place. And I think a lot of nonprofit leaders, when they get started m, they don't realize that they're actually starting a small business when they open a 501C3. And so a lot of the work that we end up doing is really about trying to infuse um, good, good business practice, good business practices, but also um, addressing a lot of the um, the emotional and spiritual elements and aspects um, that lead people into non profit work to begin with and how those things actually block us from having um, a deeper understanding of God's goodness, mercy, love, um, and heart for the ecosystem. And so, um, I think it's pretty special because I feel like, uh, the work that I get to do, the work that Ashley gets to do, um, is highly relational, but we're also getting to do really tactical things, um, very strategic things. Um, and the best part is when we also get to talk about God's love and how that shows up for the people that fund the work, the people that are doing the work, the people that need the work, um, that they all matter. And so, um, so it's really fun stuff. Uh, and because of my background too, I, um, I really like numbers and data. I started out in, uh, risk management and underwriting. And so, um, so I can at least speak the language of math. I think it's interesting to me. Um, and so I think helping people move towards outcomes or even think proactively about their outcomes, like what are you actually trying to achieve? Uh, when you're doing a large scale fundraising event, a lot of people don't know the answer to that. So they end up just building a thing and it ends up doing something, but they don't even know if it was successful or not. Uh, and so part of what we do is just slow people down, um, and ask a lot of questions because we don't know. And I think, uh, in asking questions there's a lot of discovery work that ends up happening. Um, and I think that's a key piece too is I kind of think a lot of what we end up doing, uh, is functioning as checkups for people, checkups on their organization. Uh, and like going to the doctor. It's really helpful to know what's going on, um, both for them and for everybody else. Like, we want them to be healthy. So, um, yeah, so I think the intersection of all those things is pretty important. Um, and it's really rewarding work.

Speaker A: Well, earlier today in our talk, I, um, think it might have been Ashley mentioned that oftentimes non profits are very small. Right. And so I think what I'm hearing you say is you look to bring in that business acumen, that organizational finesse, the capabilities, the processes, the rigor, the data. Who does the executive director talk with? You know, where is your confidant that you can go and say, I'm having this question or we're feeling this pressure, you know, are we ready to launch? Get back to Ashley, your point. Right. And knowing that you two are there with mission increase and that you can help, be that advisor, be that coach, help to Guide them. What a wonderful gift, right? What a wonderful gift to help them do all that God's intended for their mission. Um, talk about the role of leadership and culture in this work. We talked about organizational capacity and intentionally building organizational capacity, where that's process, data, um, rigor into their approach, those kinds of things. And then there's this part of being a good leader and building a healthy culture. How does that fit into organizational impact?

Speaker B: One of the things that comes to mind for me, I was literally having this catch internally. Like, I can't really speak to that. I don't know if I do that well. Um, and then I was thinking, oh, but I think Jenny might be talking about this other thing that I teach sometimes. And I think for me, even on my own journey, you know, I'm like a recovering perfectionist, recovering performer, you know, been on this whole spiritual journey of what does it look like when we understand God loves us first and foremost and then we bloom and can be fully alive in our giftings. Right? Like, we're not performing for God. We get to be part of bringing the kingdom of God about where we are. And that was a switch for me on my leadership journey. And it relates to outcomes, ironically, um, to thinking of what are we actually trying to accomplish, because I think so many times, and it's easier to get in more even stuck in this. In the nonprofit world, the need externally is so great. If we weren't here, X, Y, and Z, people would not be eating today, right? And we really start identifying impact as the people that are getting dinner tonight. And I feel like God has just slowly been, like, working on my heart, and now it's like a chair. It used to be a stool for me, but now it's like a chair image that I have where only one leg of the chair is the people that we're serving. The other leg of the chair is the givers. And that's a whole other topic we probably don't have time to get into today. But do we believe that we are here to, as a nonprofit leader and a fundraiser, because God wants to transform the people that are giving to the organization we're running, not just use them as transactional. Ah, right. They're not ATM machines. They're people. Right. God is transforming their hearts and their lives. And then I've kind of moved on in my own journey to this third leg, which my people, the people that God has entrusted to my care as the leader. They should be being transformed because they work at Mission Increase. They should be being transformed because they work at X, Y or Z organization that I'm running. And then I would actually argue the fourth one is yourself. Right. I think God puts us in different places. Um, he is growing. Ashley Baldwin, as I serve as the CEO of Mission Increase. Right. So that's. That was my first thing that came into my mind is just like, we have to believe and that. That's a. That's theological. We have to believe that God wants transformation us all. He doesn't just want more people who are hungry to eat or more people to come to know him when they're no longer on this earth. Right.

Speaker A: He.

Speaker B: He really is making all things new. And that applies to us all.

Speaker A: Well said. Uh, well said. And you know, much of the mission of Covenant College and with Brad. President Brad Foil's vision now for the college is sending out those builders. Right. In every profession and in all vocations to make things new, to deal with the brokenness that we have in our world. Love this four legs. Okay. This is great in terms of thinking of that leadership and really stewardship, um, that the role that God's given you. Ben, anything that you would add there around leadership and culture?

Speaker C: I think, um. I think one of the. Well, two things. One, I think, um, there's opportunities to influence up. I think people forget that. And I think I've been, um, guilty of doing this in my career too, where I just sort of say, oh, well, the culture here stinks. Well, that's like saying I stink because I'm part of it. You know, Like, I think. I think we like to sort of distance ourselves from where we are. Uh, or at least I have done that at different points. And I think the best moments have. When I have been. When I've decided, oh, no, I'm part of this thing. Um, how can. How can I add something here, um, instead of, uh, just condemn it. And I also think too, um. I think it's really easy to idealize a culture, um, when I actually think the culture is ultimately a reflection of everyone's assets and liabilities. Just is. And, um, I think what's wonderful about that is, um, there's always opportunities to do some change or to potentially bring in some change. I think the flip side of that too is like, um, our challenges, our sin patterns, our. Everything comes out. Um. And I think it's true in parenting. It's true in managing the stuff. The stuff that you have going on internally is going to come out. Um, and that's okay. And I think that's. That's a big Part of what I often coach around is when we're making discoveries around the places where we're getting stuck, it's actually so much better to name those things because there's actually then the opportunity to move through it and grow. Um, and so rather than sort of aspiring to have this culture that's perfect, I think, um, part of the culture that we're looking to create with our staff and our team is one in which, um, we recognize and name when things aren't going well, um, so that we can do something about it. Uh, when we make mistakes, because we do make mistakes, um, we say this is part of being human. This is part of us growing. Um, if we weren't making mistakes, it means we're not doing, uh, we're not really challenging ourselves. And so m. I think having that kind of attitude has been really helpful. Um, and having that attitude, I think for me too, in terms of how I'm approaching wherever I am as like I am co creating here. I'm not just like a bystander, uh, has been really, really helpful. Um, reframe for me in my own career.

Speaker A: Great words of wisdom. Um, I needed you a couple weeks ago on a CEO coaching. You said,

Speaker B: well, Jenny, I'm, I'm sitting here thinking, say what? I work with this man, he's on my team. Does he have something he needs to tell me offline?

Speaker C: You know, I will if there's something, but no, yeah, I think it's good.

Speaker A: Yeah. For leaders though, this, this big breakthrough insight that one of that you just shared was when people, leaders start talking about the culture, right? And you're saying, no, own it. You are a part of that culture. And then it sounds like as you're leading with your team, you're helping them to see they own their actions, also create culture. And so you're just really creating that ownership of the culture and then giving yourself permission to grow with it. Right. So saying we may not be perfect in everything, but you're going back to this concept of own it, right? We're going to own that we're human, we're going to own that we're stewarding this, we're going to own that. We're going to drive forward into some new place, but we're doing it together. We're going to be very authentic and honest with each other about that. Those are all really powerful points of wisdom for leaders who are trying to change culture and not just have it be a slogan or an aspiration, but really engage the team with their looking at Their own actions. Right. Looking at their own actions to do that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, let's move on. I know that we covered some good ground, but we have some more things I wanted to cover before our time is up today. Some of the things that Mission Increase is known for when they're doing capacity building, is helping nonprofits build great boards and great teams of volunteers, which is critical for scaling and multiplying impact. Give us some insight and wisdom on how you do that.

Speaker C: Just that simple thing.

Speaker A: Just give me a magic wand.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's. It's complicated, right? There's, There's. And that's because there's people involved. I, um, think one of. One of the most helpful phrases that somebody else said and I've taken and borrowed thousands of times is that clarity is kindness. And I think so often, um, when there's a breakdown in a relationship, because that's ultimately what the board and the nonprofit leaders have, is a relationship might be a dysfunctional relationship, but it's a relationship. So often, um, what's at the root of some of the conflict is a lack of clarity around who's supposed to be doing what. Um, and so I think that's one of those areas where I think it's really helpful to start with just trying to get clear on what is the board supposed to be doing, what is the nonprofit leader supposed to be doing, um, and where is that sort of misaligned with how things are actually running? And that goes back to, um, being a diagnostician too, right? Like where we can ask, um, questions to really kind of discover and uncover what's actually happening. Um, and, um, like in all relationships, um, there's got to be give and take. Uh, change takes time. Um, and, um, stewarding a relationship, uh, really, really goes back to trust. If you want, if you want to change a relationship. Trust needs to be built, and trust takes a long time to build. So, um, I would say just at a high level, um, there's. There's kind of not a one size fits all solution to, to getting a board to run well. I think there's a lot of different ways that a board and an organization can run really, really well. Um, so using discernment, but ultimately, um, trying to bring that principle to the forefront of can we have clarity around who's supposed to do what? Uh, I think is kind m of the first place that at least my mind goes to.

Speaker B: Great.

Speaker A: Yeah. Role, responsibility, I'm in my lane or I'm contributing the way that I'm supposed to be contributing. That clarity, I love it. It's kindness. Ashley, any thoughts there in terms of, um, building great boards or volunteer groups?

Speaker B: I think there's many things I could say. Um, a couple things that just popped to my mind right off the bat are, are we all willing to be accountable? I work with nonprofit. I hear a lot from nonprofit leaders. Like, almost like we're getting a little bit mad at our boards. Like, if they would just do this, you know, if they would show up. Like, which tells me a lot, like, what's going on internally. Like, Ben talked about for. For this person, but also, like, what's happening. My guess is both sides probably need to be a little bit more accountable. Right? Like, we have some. Some breakdown there. Um, I think good governance really helps with that. Good governance practices. Um, I often ask, like, I like to have fun. Like, I'm like, are our board meetings fun? Like, are we just wasting people's time? Like, can we do things where, like, every time I'm with boards or my own board, I've led a board for many years now. Like, I want to build in moments where we get to know each other, where we can enjoy each other, we can hang out outside of the boardroom, where I am cultivating a relationship with them. Um, I think it's so easy once we get the yes. Someone goes onto a board and we treat that person so differently than maybe even a major donor. Like, we're. We're no longer meeting with them. We're no longer, like, inviting them to see the impact of the organization. We're just like, hey, can you do this thing for me? Me? And, like, do you approve these financials? I think every board meeting needs to have a mission moment where we're reminding this group of people who, by the way, is doing all of this for free, giving up their time, their talent, their treasure. Um, what are we actually doing? Like, let me share a positive story. And instead, I just. I observe boards and they're like, okay, let's move on to the next thing. I'm like, we're not creating champions, right? We. There. There is an element, I think, of. Of leading our boards. And I thing I would say is, man, board members are incredibly powerful. And I mean that in all the best uses of that word. Highly influential. I am really thinking about who I want to fill that seat. I am not just giving away those seats. I am really putting some thought and intention into that. Um, I think there's a lot of people who just, you know, let's just get the seats filled so we can say, we have a board. And I'm like, and now you're wondering why there's problems.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think being intentional, you're talking about the importance of accountability. I also love the fact that you're helping us to remember why we're serving and these mission moments. Right. I hadn't thought about it in that way, but it's so clear when you tell us, make sure you're incorporating that into the. We can get pressured by time constraints, by data, or all the actions that are on our agenda to really step back and make sure that people reflect and have an opportunity to experience why we're here, why we're here, that mission moment. Great call out. Um, gosh, you're right. We could take a whole day on all of these topics. Before we wrap up, I want to go into this concept of stewardship and faithful leadership. You talked about that a little bit earlier when you had your four legs of the stool about giving and importance of stewardship and how the Lord calls us to stewardship. And that's one of the competencies at the Brock Barnes center for Leadership that we talk about pretty intensely around servant leadership. From your perspective, what does it mean to really steward and to have faithful leadership in this space?

Speaker B: I think, Jenny, not to be redundant, like, stewardship for me really does come back to having a transformational lens. Right. Um, seeing people as people that God wants to grow, including myself. But it does go back to that organizational effectiveness. And we don't have time to get into this today. But I could get on a little soapbox about how bad, um, how much I hear terrible theology. Right. Which where people are divorcing those concepts. And I've literally had leaders like, um, one guy one time raise his hand and say, but how could. You're telling me I, I should have these business practices? Or he probably used something like a different phrase that had a very negative connotation and was like, but how can I still be a Christian? What about depending on God? What about trust in God? And sometimes I feel like so much of what we're doing is just create correcting, which is a shame and gets me fired up. Correcting bad theology that we have seen separated these two and that we have said to be effective and to actually, like, understand stewardship the way you and I would understand stewardship is actually distrusting God. And we, we. I think we've got to be able to name that and say that head on and then begin to repair that and bring those two concepts back together. Um, because I know you would totally disagree with that. But that is in our ecosystem. That language, that sentiment, and honestly, that poor theology is in our. In our ecosystem.

Speaker A: Are you helping us to. Are you reminding us to be all that we can be, to constantly steward the gifts that we have to have their maximum impact? And sometimes that's reflecting on ourselves and being open and honest about that, asking for help, praying for guidance, and then also. But looking at our organizations through that, uh, same lens, how can we be better? I mean, is that where you're helping us to see this lesson of stewardship? Or how would you describe it? How would you give it an example?

Speaker B: I think I'm trying to say that we don't have to divorce the two. Meaning a nonprofit leader who feels like if I were to infuse my organization with better stewardship and better business acumen and better practice, best practices, that would mean that. That I no longer trust God. Like, do I not? Are you telling me that to be on top, to be understanding of my financials and to care for my donors and to ask people to give and be thinking about revenue generation, does that mean I just don't trust God, that He's going to provide? And I'm like, m. Maybe God's providing through this donor list that's right here that he might actually want you to be thinking of.

Speaker A: Well said, well said. And I do think that oftentimes, um, especially when the pressure is difficult, it's easy to turn more into that victim or like, not own it ourselves. And I think that concept of stewardship that we're given the responsibility to make all that we can with the gifts that God's given us and to really step into that and really own, um, that. That's part of being a great Christian. Ben, anything that you would share around stewardship and faithful leadership as we begin to wrap up,

Speaker C: um, yeah, ah, the, the main idea that's popping into my mind is, um, it's just related to, ah, incremental progress. So, um, I think it's really easy to, um, get overwhelmed by change. And I think a lot of the folks that we work with feel that way. They feel like, oh man, there's so many things that I need to do differently. I wish I was doing better with this. I wish I was stewarding this much better. To the point where they get so fixated on all the ways that they're not stewarding things well that they can't make any kind of real meaningful change. And so I think, you know, what we often encourage people to do is just Take the right next step, even if it's small. Um, and um, I think God honors that and I think he wants us to actually live more freely. I think stewardship is actually, ah, a way to live more freely. Um, and so I think, um, being in the people change business is a really humbling thing because, um, because ultimately we're not responsible for stewarding other people's change. That's Holy Spirit's job. Um, but somehow we're participants, you know, and I think that's, that's the mysterious part is, you know, that we, we're available. We offer what we have in terms of our expertise and our ideas. But, um, you know, it's, it's easy, it's easy to want to score, keep and say, you know, everybody that's changing and changing really well, that's because us, everyone that's not. Is because they're not listening to us. When I think the truth is, you know, we are just supposed to show up with what we have and God offers, or God asks us to offer that to him, uh, and make that available to him in the kingdom. And I think, um, what's so amazing is that in us offering, we get to participate in the stuff that he's ultimately doing. Um, and that's the most rewarding bit, that's the mysterious bit too is, uh, when we do actually get to bear witness to somebody growing and changing and, and really being transformed. Just seeing like the lights come on in their eyes and um, seeing them, uh, have a greater vision for how God can use them as a channel of his love and peace. Um, it's so cool, it's so exciting because we're getting to see the kingdom coming in real time. And so, um, so I think, you know, just trying to get somebody to just take one step because I think so often we get stuck. Uh, and I think that's often why people come to us, is they're stuck. Even if they can't name it, they feel it. Um, and I think we all want to get unstuck and I think we all want to feel the freedom that it is to be tethered to Christ. Um, and so, um, yeah, so I think stewardship is ultimately about us knowing like, what, what's our job and what's Holy Spirit's job? Um, because it's not my job to change people, but it is my job to love them.

Speaker A: Right? And I think that you do such a great job of helping us understand that change takes courage, change takes trust in God and sort of opening yourself up. To that guidance from the Holy Spirit and, and as Christians, as a Christian community, how we can help each other step into that change. Right? And to uh, embr. And what we need to do. I remember in the early days of taking this role at the Brock Barnes center for Leadership and I was feeling a little bit overwhelmed and my good friend Ben Baldwin happened to be in my office and I was telling him about it. He goes, jenny, can I pray for you? And I was like, yes, I would love that. And how meaningful that was that day when you are listening to me and hearing the challenges of my change and coming to around me just to say let's take it to God, right? And how powerful that was and get a little emotional about it. It's been so great to have y' all here. It really has. Mission increase doing amazing things in our region and beyond building mission centered organizations. We are so thankful for Ashley Baldwin and Ben Baldwin and your team and all the powerful work that you're doing with non profits to make our community and to serve the Lord. So thank you for being here today and thank you for being great Covenant College alumni. We're very, very thankful for you.

Speaker B: Thank you Jenny. What a gift. What a privilege.

Speaker A: As we close today's program, I invite you to take a moment to reflect. What is one lesson, or maybe it's an insight that you learned today. What practical step will you take to apply it to your own leadership? I invite you to do that, to hear more conversations with servant leaders and to stay connected with the Brock Barnes center for Leadership. Subscribe to our newsletter, you can find us at brockbarns Covenant. Edu. And if you'd like to support our mission for building servant leadership, you can make a gift through our give page. Also on our website at brockbarns Covenant. Edu. Thanks for listening. Bye now.