Ep. 180 Build a Life That Amplifies Your Purpose - Cameron Atlas on Storytelling, Vulnerability & Peak Performance

Speaker A: Welcome back to Impact Investing, the show where we meet the change makers reimagining the future of business, equity and sustainability. Today we're welcoming back one of our most unique voices we've ever had on the show, Cameron Atlas. If you caught episode 139, you already know the kind of energy Cameron brings. A keynote speaker who doesn't just talk leadership, he performs it live on stage with music, blending insights on high performance, innovation and courage with the original songs performed on a piano and guitar. He's coach founders, spoken for TEDx and National Geographic and written over 300 songs heard in 195 countries. But today he's back to go deeper. We're diving into the next frontier. How creativity fuels leadership, how presence drives peak performance and how to build a mission driven life in a noisy world. Let's get into it. All right. We're thrilled to have Cameron Atlas back on the show. Keynote speaker, musician and coach with one of the most unique approaches we've seen. If you missed episode 139, go check it out. Cameron dropped powerful insights on music, music to lead, navigating uncertainty and building resilient teams. Today we're going to go even deeper into creativity, presence and leading with purpose. Cameron, welcome back to the show. Let's get at it.

Speaker B: Great to be here. Let's do it.

Speaker A: All right, man. I'm really excited because there's this thing that I was at a concert this past weekend and it's not the. Obviously I love concerts, been to many, many, many, many. One of my favorite things to do, I just love music. And um, I turned to my buddy and it was uh, probably the fourth song. And I said, they've hit it. This is it. This is the one, man. And he's looking at me like, well, what do you mean? I'm like, this is where they've hit flow. This is the tightest song. I guarantee the concert's going to be a thousand times better from this song going forward. And personally we thought it was great but when I got home I had to just do some research and I had to ask because I always thought this in my head is that in a, uh, concert, when you're there, when do they hit optimal flow? Like when do they actually get in sync? And I've over time been running this through my head and I found that it was every about three to six songs. They never hit right at the peak. The first song they play, you know, it's out of tune, doesn't make sense, doesn't matter how big of a Band it is, they're never in sync in the first or second third song song. So I asked has there any been any research done on this? And there has been a little bit. But they did say that on average between three and six songs is when people hit maximum flow, like where they're, you know, the, the tune, the rhythm, everything starts to really get tight and you can kind of pick it up. At least I felt I picked it up usually around that third, fourth song. So I figured in podcasting it's got to be the same. You get in, it's awkward. Oh, uh, hey, what, what you know, and you're trying to figure out your groove. But, but if you just start off having a conversation, talking about things, you're aligning, you're understanding each other and then boom, you hit the intro and you just start jumping in. So that's my theory is that we kind of have to be, go through that to get to the flow, to get to the kick ass material.

Speaker B: What do you think? I, I, let's test it out. Like if, if that, that's theory, man, I'm going to be dropping bombs over the next five minutes. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: So this is going to be great. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, there's got to be some kind of truth to that because there's something about. Yeah. Depending on who you have the conversation with, it can take a few minutes at least to get into some kind of flow with somebody and you know, to have that vibe together. And that goes for any conversation as well. That's in some ways the art of conversation. How do you, how do you shorten that amount of time or have that time lead to then the, what it is that you're actually aiming as an outcome, whether it's a sales conversation or a leadership conversation or a romantic conversation, like how do you move the conversation forward and ensure that somebody's experiencing the best of you? Which is what we're talking about here. Right. How do you, how does, how does someone get the, the absolute best of JP Right?

Speaker A: It really is. And think of all the times you've played and you've done talks in front of people. If it's solo, you get into rhythm, maybe it could be second, two, three, four minutes into playing. You're not perfect right from the get go. You're nervous, the crowd's looking at you differently, you're taking the vibe differently and then you get into the flow and that's when you're just like happy and you're just into it and then you Finish. And you're like, oh my God, we're done. What happened? And you're like, well, that went so well I didn't even realize an hour and a half went by. So in the same thing, in a conversation, we don't have the same way to connect into people. So your connection is usually going through that rough stuff for a while, which is like, what do you do? Oh, you're from here. Oh, I do this. And you're kind of storm because you don't have a familiarity with that person. So how do we get that familiarity to happen right away? And in your case, you've got the creativity, so you've got music, you got things that actually get people to say, oh my God, listen to that song you played, it was so cool. So you already are breaking barriers down. The person's already interested because they've heard some of your, you know, know 300 songs and they're like, wow, this guy's so talented. So you can break down a lot of that right away to get into the real meat potatoes of it. So how do you do that just in a regular conversation by opening that up or trying to sell to somebody? It's the same kind of issue when you're trying to sell to someone. You're trying to say, hey, I realized you like Snickers because I saw you posted this on a Twitter's page, on uh, a Twitter page. So you, you're trying to find things that will connect you into that person. So in the same kind of instance, if we don't know anything about each other takes longer. The more you know about someone, it goes a little bit quicker. So how do you start that? By just having a down low key conversation. And maybe that's the only way you can start, which is everybody talks about weather and sports, is that it? I don't know. But in your case, when you're getting in front of a stage, in front of a large group of people and you're doing a keynote and you're talking about these great things, how do you get the crowd to be super interested in what you're doing or from the start. And at the end

Speaker B: I said on stage I'm, I usually approach, I'm usually going to share an opening story and it's going to be, you know, there's, there's select stories that I have and I have a whole story book, right. And I built this over the course of a number of years and it's, you know, all the different stories from my life. There's well over 100 that I've got in there. Um, and they're ordered by neurochemicals that are released in people's brains when I tell them. Right. Ideally, if I tell the story right, right. There's a, you know, it's up to me to actually tell that story. But you know, if I want to, usually what I'm, what I'm aiming to do in those early stages of a, uh, of a talk, but I'd say it's absolutely the same within a conversation is how can I release some oxytocin in somebody's brain? Um, and because that's a bonding chemical. Right. Um, it's, and it's. How do you tell that in a way where the audience, or if it's one on one conversation, uh, it's almost like they're rooting for you. Right. They want you to see you succeed. I don't know what's going to happen, but it's like, oh, I want to, I want to find out more. Right. Um, and so, you know, I, I look for how can I form some kind of a connection? And, and so, you know, whether I'm talking about family, you know, I have my nieces and nephews back in Australia and so I might, you know, bring one of those pieces in there. And I, I want to say this first up as well. Um, because I think as we get

Speaker A: more and more

Speaker B: immersed from a technological standpoint, authenticity is going to become even more and more important. Because. And it's. What's crazy is that it's going to become more and more challenging to decide what is authentic and what isn't authentic as well. We're already starting to see that with deep fakes and other things online. Right. Um, but I can absolutely see people craving, within conversation, genuine authenticity and you can still utilize other tools. And again, thinking about the, um, the oxytocin for example. But I'm, I am not thinking about that, that specific thing on stage. I go, I know that, um, that this story, uh, is likely to create this type of response in an audience. This, I'm going to get a laugh, you know, round about this point. If I tell the story well, they're going to feel at this moment, um, they're going bit of tension at this moment, like these different pieces. And so what do I want them to experience? But then I, I've got to be in the story. If I'm not in the story and if I'm not there, like at the moment where it happened, then, yeah, then, then I'm not going to be in flow, right. And, and, and it's going to be, I'm telling a story at them rather than allowing them to be a part of the experience. Um, and so yeah, I, I'd say that's my first answer. And I'm just thinking about with one on one conversations is the power of questions is really important, really, really important. A great quality question can just lead you into a whole realm of possibilities. And I'd say as well, the follow up question is critical as well if you're in a conversation. Uh, uh, I'll share this as an example. So Brittany and I, we do something that we call our uh, weekly pulse. It comes from uh, the progress pulse that I do with inside organizations, um, with these four key questions. And the first question in a business sense is like, what's working well? Uh, what were the wins within our relationship? We soften it up and it's where did you feel loved? Where did you feel appreciated? Where did you feel taken care of this week? How did, how did I make your life easier? And we do this every single week on a Sunday. And there was this one moment where, because I was thinking, you're going to get all the lessons from the shit that's not working right. You know, it's like, this is not going right. This is, you know, we've got to work on this. One of my best insights came about how to love her came from what was working well. And when she said, I, um, really love when you send me a message. We might be away from each other, but you either send me a message or I find something that's from you, like a note, for example, that you've left for me. And I asked the second question and this is where the art of conversation comes in of what was it about that, what is it about that that has you feel loved? And she said, well it's knowing that even though I'm not there, you're thinking of me. That has been gold for me, right? Because it's enabled me to see how can I, how can I create something? And so, you know, the last time she was away for two weeks in uh, over in Hawaii and had an amazing time over there. She came back, we drove into the garage and I had this uh, small sign that has the story of us on it, like hanging on the wall in the front, at the front of the garage. This is us. And then I have, you know, the uh, photos from when we, when we got engaged to, when we got married and a couple other photos as well. Um, you know, hanging, hanging underneath. And there were beautiful tears that came from her. Now I wasn't thinking about how can I get some oxytocin here? Or how can I do this, how can I make, how could I make her love me more? It's a genuine desire, uh, to give. It's a genuine desire to be of, to be of service, to, um, know that I can fulfill a certain need of hers. And I think that goes across the board, whether it's a romantic partner, a business partner, uh, a leadership conversation, a team conversation or otherwise. Um, but it's that probing question that, that made all the difference because I could have easily just gone, oh, cool. And I go, oh, yeah, I could do something like that in the future. But the sheer amount of things that I've done now, um, and continue to do over and over and over again, um, brings us closer together.

Speaker A: Uh, that is actually awesome. And now I'm like, oh, I better have a very good follow up question. Uh, but I think when you look at the way you just explained also creates the follow up question. It also creates, um, more of a memory bank for yourself. Because now that is the next more impactful question that came back. So the answer is more impactful than the first response. So the first response was like, yeah, this was nice. But then the second one is, but this is why it was so nice. Which is what drives you to remember this. Because now it's like so important to that person, which now is important to you. And now in your mind you're thinking, okay, as you said, you kind of hit goal, but you hit some value. There's. So now it's impressed. Uh, you know, it's been impressioned right into your mind. So now every time you do something, you're always going to be thinking to that next stage. You didn't have that stage before that. So this now became that stage. So it kind of goes back to when you were saying this authenticity, uh, authenticity part about how you can authenticate people. You're saying, well, this is never going to happen. Well, authenticating people can actually go to different stages. So what if you looked up it and said I have to create a vulnerability, vulnerability here. And the only way to do that is, is by having to share something of myself, which means I have to get into a position where I feel comfortable enough to share something, which is her vulnerability that she shared to you, which was what I really felt. You're taking that in, but now it's really ingrained in your mind and now you go forward in that. But it will create that lasting relationship. So when you're talking to people into an audience, you literally do that every time then. So you're going to the audience and you're saying, hey, here's something about me. Here's a cool funny story. Or here's something about me. Here I ended up becoming the hero, or here I became, um, you know, in distress. And they all want to, want to find out what the outcome is going to be. So you're bringing them through that storyline and that's what's keeping them interested in the whole storyline, which is the same thing you just did to me by sharing this story about you and your wife, which is fantastic. And the little things that you did to keep the storyline building so you don't forget it. So I guess the, that's an analogy of it all. But the question I would say then is that you've now struck um, a mindset. You've pulled them into that. Now how do you. Do you have to always deliver on those key pieces every once in a while or how do you keep the conversation to go so that that person will reach out to you and say two weeks. And say man, I really love this conversation I had with you today. How do we work together? So how do you get it to that next stage of uh, of doing something that in a way hits your goals but also can meet theirs?

Speaker B: M. Well, I think landing the plane on that of you want to be memorable like you want. And that, that comes from, it comes from vulnerability. It comes from sharing things of yourself. It comes from um, yeah, sharing parts of you that somebody can grab hold of in the future. And, and also like there's something about storytelling that it's a co creative process. Like if you're sharing, if you're really good at story. When it comes to storytelling, you're sharing these, these examples, these stories, uh, within the stories. It might be an insight or some way of moving them along the, along the journey, but you're aiming to have them actually co create the story with you. Right? They're, they're creating a version of it in their minds. And it's what's, that's what's beautiful about storytelling as well, is that you're never going to create another moment like that ever. It is, it is just for you and the audience. And I'd say like when people uh, come up afterwards from a, like with an audience who said when they say, um, it's like you were speaking to me. Is that, is that, that is the like an ultimate um, yeah, pat on the back if you will. An ultimate uh, uh, appreciation and something where I know, I know I've done well because people are always asking what's in it for me, right. And so if you haven't shown in some way, shape or form that what's in it for me to have the next conversation, if you haven't shown in some way, shape or form that it would be worthwhile having that next conversation, whether it is simply because you've started to get to know each other or there's a need from a product standpoint, um, or from an investment standpoint, there could be an opportunity there. Whatever. The thing is, if you haven't given something that is of value or something that could move the conversation forward, then one why is there a second conversation or a need for a second conversation? Is there a need for a second conversation? Um, but if it's early on as well, how you get to that next stage is to ensure that follow up is you've just got a foolproof follow up system in place. I uh, often share and think about that. You should have a follow up step in your follow up system that compensates for people's lack of follow up system because most people are walking around with great intentions of following up and saying yeah, I'll get back to you next week and then you're not the most important person in their world. You're not even the top 10. Right. If you've only just started talking to them. Um, not even in the top 10. Right. And so best intentions, really poor follow up system. And if you go into every single conversation with that frame of mind, then it doesn't matter if someone doesn't follow up with you or come back to you at a certain time. It doesn't mean that they're not interested. Right. It just means that it's going along in the sales cycle and depends on where that sales cycle is up to and that you know, again you can go over into the personal side of sales cycle is going from you know, first date to marriage for example. Uh, but within a, ah, within a business context it's there are steps that you've got to go through in order for that to occur and there's usually going to be multiple touch points that occur um, in order to move that conversation along. Um, but that, I mean, yeah, the first impression, there's the first impression when you're actually having a conversation. The thing in reality is these days that that first impression is happening before they've even had a Conversation with you, Right. I had someone reach out the other day, um, and uh, you know, inquire about having me come and speak at their organization. And you know, they within the message had said, could you talk on this and about your story from how you went from here to here? Which I go, I know that they've gone and looked at my about page, right? My about page has my origin story there, right? From growing up in Outback Australia to leaving and all the, you know, some trauma stuff that occurred and so on and so forth. Um, and so I know that they've gone through and they've already started to form a relationship with me. And so when I had the conversation and it's the first time we've ever spoken and she was sharing, oh, well, what about if you spoke on this? Because I saw this topic and how about we did it this way but could we customize it a little bit like this? And I go, man, like that stuff. If you don't have your assets in place, right? Whether that's a site or app or um, or LinkedIn or otherwise other social. If you don't have those pieces in place, then you're having to try to do that, all of that in the first conversation. And so the more that you're able to have that going in these different areas, um, maybe the more effortless the conversation is going to be. Um, but yeah, follow up is a, is a key piece there and making sure that you know what the next step is when it's going to be taken. Um, and ensuring that you then do that and follow up and follow through. Um, because then you can just become the most trustworthy person in your network. And that's an extraordinary thing to have.

Speaker A: I love that. And to kind of unpack some of this. The other piece that you mentioned before, when you're kind of talking about, uh, the authenticity, it really does, you're putting that in front of them already. So they already have that. So now they just want to validate it and prove it and have that conversation with you. And when they have that conversation with you and they're steering you, it's because they have their business in mind and they're looking at you as a way to fill that content information that's going to benefit them on their progression or unite uniting everybody in the business. But it's your vulnerability that allowed that to occur because you had to share your story of where you went through the trauma you experienced and different things. And maybe not a lot of people are obviously as willing to share that, but it opens a storyline for you to say, well, here's how I can help your teams overcome barriers. How I can this, uh, help for me or this, work this way. So it's kind of a coaching way through this progression. But they're already learning about you from all the content. And one other thing I really, um, on the follow up that you mentioned is that because you have a hundred stories, you kind of can relate where the person came from. You're like, they can tell you, oh, I saw you speak at this place. Excuse me. Then you say, oh, that was a story I shared. That was this story. And that resonated with that person. So you're like, so you must have also gone through and really enjoyed how I played the piano and tied it into this story. So you can use your own content to now more metamorphosize that next stage of the relationship because you already know how to connect with that person because they saw this and they enjoyed it and you got that out of it. Or you can at least have a different conversation about it.

Speaker B: Yeah, that, uh, strategically storytelling is one thing, strategically telling your stories is another. Right. And you know, I could, we could just chat for hours and just tell stories. Right? But like, where, where do you want it to go? Because then you've got to be thinking about, okay, what, what objections do I have to overcome? Um, and what story could I potentially insert here? Um, and it is a way of, of relating. Um, and, and it is, uh, the way I see vulnerability is it's like imagine you're in a castle, right? And your army's there, and you're looking out and there's an army is coming in your, uh, in your direction. You'd got to choose whether you lower the drawbridge down or whether you start shooting. Right now the only way that there is a potential for peace in the region is to lower the drawbridge down. All right? To enable for a conversation to occur, uh, versus a fight's going to break out. And so the lowering of the drawbridge down to me, is you being comfortable as a human being, not as a business owner, not as leader of this organization, as a human being. And, and, and developing your own self to a point where you're okay with sharing vulnerably things about yourself. Yeah. And yes, you can do it in a strategic way. You don't want people taking advantage, those types of pieces. But, uh, but being able to open up enables the potential for there to be widespread peace in the region. Now here's, here's the Kicker with this, I like to think about in this way, right? You go, um, they. They could end up fighting, right? And this is the thing with vulnerability. You've got to have enough internal strength army behind you that if they decided to do something, you could kick their ass still. Right? And the kicking, the kicking of the ass in that case isn't like dragging them through the mud and taking advantage of them and, um, being an absolute ass about it. It's knowing that the inner strength that, uh, no matter what somebody says, I'm still loved, I'm still good enough, I'm still okay here, I still have value to offer. It doesn't matter what that person said. I'm going to utilize that as feedback so that I can determine, okay, is there any truth to it that I could maybe adapt my style or go about it? There's definitely times where I'll do that, where a talk. It doesn't get the right, you know, as. As great a feedback as I wanted. Okay. What can I learn from that? You know? Yeah, it's not just about dismissing it completely, uh, but it's also not about taking it on as factual information when that's detrimental to my own sense of self. Right. Um, and so I think that's one of the big reasons why people struggle to be vulnerable is because they haven't got the inner army, you know, that that's willing to, um. And the strength and that. That ability to be able to know that I'm still enough. And so it's much easier to keep the guard up.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And that makes perfect sense, right. If there's a big army on the way and I've got this, you know, really crappy army that's like five dudes that. And, you know, two of them have never done any kind of training whatsoever. It's like you're gonna get your ass kicked. Right? And so, um, ensuring that that inner strength is built up because then when. And I think that's like doing the work on yourself is so incredibly important because it enables you to then give freely without expectation. It enables you to give freely without needing anything in return. It enables you to be of value and know that if you get taken advantage of or this happens or that happens, it doesn't diminish yourself in any way. I think that is such a powerful way to go about life. Uh, because again, people are craving authenticity. And I can only see that increasing, the need of that increasing. And your ability to cut through the, um, generated text or generated, um, scripts or whatever's being created for us and being able to cut through and still have those systems and pieces in place, but sprinkle them in with your own sense of self. I think it's just. It's going to become an absolute necessity.

Speaker A: I love the, um, analogy, the bridge drawbridge. I think it's brilliant, and it really does. As a person, it allows you, no matter what environment you're in or whatever you're trying to accomplish or do, it's a matter of, uh, am I opening this door a little bit, a lot, or all the way, or. And what am I allowing in? And I think to your point, if you have, over time, maybe even beaten up, you're being a little bit more reluctant to open the door fully or at all. But I think there's also a form of control here. You know, it's perception, too. It's that if I open this door, I might have a big cannon behind me. You'll never know that. I might be. I'm prepared for whatever the outcome can be, but at the same time, I'm in control of lowering the bridge. So I could be at four dudes and behind me, or I could have 4,000, or I could have nobody. But I'm in control of allowing the bridge to come down. And I want the risk, and I want to take that chance on you because of my own humanity or what my core and my beliefs have made me. What we talked about before, which is, you know, I want to stick to who I am and. But you also have to protect yourself from the potential flaws that can come from being too open and that, uh, forward look. But it's still a good way of attacking the world, is that you have the choice of opening the door, and maybe you got to do it faster, but maybe there's a way that you can do that. And the vulnerability is just opening the door and saying, you know what? I'm open. I want to figure out what the life has to offer me and take me where I need to go.

Speaker B: I've found that being open has many more ups, much more upside than it does downside. And again, you want to protect your downside through, you know, again, having the army in this analogy, but through lowering the drawbridge, you give other people permission to lower theirs.

Speaker A: Ah. Uh, that's brilliant. I love that. Uh, you're right. Yeah, 100%. Drop the guns and everything else around

Speaker B: with their drawbridges up, and rightly so. They've been burnt, abused, taken advantage of, treated like crap. You know, whether it's childhood or early adult years, or going into business. Every single time that I'm working with a client. Right. On a co, on the coaching side, privately, every single time. Even right up to those that are in their 70s, you know, 70 years age, 76 years of age, that we're getting back to childhood.

Speaker A: Oh, really? Wow.

Speaker B: Yeah, because the patterns of behavior are just repeating over and over and over again. Until you deal with that shit, then it's not going to, you're going to be repeating that until you're, you know, you rectify it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so, you know, the, the reason why you don't trust people is because you got taken advantage of as a kid, for example. Somebody, uh, uh, betrayed your trust. Yeah. And yes, it can happen in business as well, but often it's somewhere in that three to seven years of age range, maybe into a little later in childhood. Um, but everyone has got to go through if you really want to break through this stuff, go through the deep work that's required and that and what, and watch what happens out the back end of that when you're truly able to bring the truest version of yourself, because then you are, you're approaching this world. There's been a few insights that I've had with, with some clients recently with them, of switching from outside into inside out. What I mean by that is, rather than what is the world? What do I think the world needs of me? As in, what is my dad going to approve of? What is my mom going to approve of? What is. What is this, you know, woman going to. Or man going to think of me like these pieces is go inside out. Inside out is knowing your values, knowing your, your identities, knowing your belief systems, knowing what your mission is, knowing those pieces. And yes, you then are creating something that the world needs, but it's doing it in a way that's aligned to who you really are. Because the amount of times where someone in their 40s, 50s, 60s, who have had multiple careers and have finally come to the realization that shit like I was continuing to chase and thinking that finally this was going to be it, finally I was going to, I was going to feel fulfilled. And unless you have that internal peace and it's, and it's emanating outward. Right. Trying to find and fill the void that is missing internally is. That's a, that's a recipe for disaster.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. I think there's, um, a lot of work that I guess even when you're older and you're just thinking everything's business or my kids are all grown and everything's still just business. I think there's a time where we have to pull back and say, wait a second, maybe I need to break some of these old patterns that they don't realize that they're doing. To your point that these have just been reenacted since they were a kid, which sounds tough in men. You know, you're preventing yourself from growing by not seeing these or having someone point them out. And it kind of pops in my head if, if, um, I go back to an interview we did with, um, Rob Ryan and he was, um, 147 and he said, you know, when I ask people to talk to them and I ask them, tell me about yourself. And they'll say, well, this is what I do in my business. And he says, no, no, no, no, no, let me start again. No, tell me about you, I want to know about you. And he says, it just changes the whole dynamic because I think people want the chance to talk. They don't understand the freedom of, um, opening the drawbridge. So they haven't been able to do that. And then you. He's able to just kind of bring the calmness and get you to drop the drawbridge by asking the right one question, which is what you shared at the beginning. It's just ask a great question, but then have a great follow up. And if you have that great follow up to know, tell me about you. And then you're there. I think the biggest piece, um, to all of this great question, ah, is listening. Because someone just wanted you to listen, right? They just said, oh man, no one's ever listened to me before. Like, wow, you actually care about me. So it's amazing how you add in all of these different elements into storytelling and into listening and talking and how you ask questions, how much more powerful that can be to make a connection and a genuine connection with somebody and actually be able to build forward with that. And I'm going to make, uh, just a guess because you mentioned it earlier, you're not even in my top 10. But think about how the people got into the top 10 if you went and talked to them. I bet you somewhere in there there was vulnerability, there was an attack of some sort that the person jumped in and saved or worked on and they became instant friends or they connected because of some past trauma or some past excitement, like a great concert. Whatever it was, there was those things that drew them together and bonded them to go forward. And all the other relationships are just trying to figure out how to get that.

Speaker B: Yeah, Creating relationships. That that last is a big part of this. Right? You can. And I feel like this is the. How a lot of the world is right now and what a lot of people are deeply missing is, is that it feels transactional. You know, make a post, get likes, get comments, get shares. It's transactional. Right? Um, you know, certain products, certain service, how can I get the deal, you know, how can I get the money? It's transactional. Uh, there was this thing that I did a bit over 10 years ago. I was back in Australia at the time, was end of 2014 at the time. And while I was in this room with a bunch of people who were planning out their years and uh, it just seemed really short sighted to me that, you know, what are you going to get over the next next 90 days, next 12 months, even the next 12 months. And, and I didn't tell anyone at the time. And I share, you know, with, in these types of conversations that I made a decision in that moment and I didn't tell anybody. I just made a decision. I made a decision that while everybody else is focused on what they're going to get for the next 90 days, next 12 months, I'm going to focus on relationships. Building relationships that will last me for the next 10 to 50 years. Right. Um, now there's a beautiful case in point. How long have we known each other?

Speaker A: Well, at least 15 years now, I think. Maybe more. At least 15.

Speaker B: It's actually less than that. So it'll be. So I start. It'll be about 10, we're about nine, 10 years.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. Feels like 15, man.

Speaker B: Feels like 15. That's a tick. But I started building relationships internationally and my network internationally in 2015, soon after that, that revelation that I had. Um, and so you were a fairly early, uh, person in that whole approach. Now we'd never known that we'd be, you know, having these kinds of conversations, continuing to catch up and continue to build our friendship, um, for, you know, for years and years and years. Um, but that, that was a direct result like our, what this conversation right now is, is genuinely a direct result of that insight that I had and that decision and that commitment, right, that has led to that and that's led to many beautiful friendships, relationships, business opportunities, uh, through the genuine desire to be of value in a way that lasts decades. And I think I only just, I've only just thought of this. Um, I think this came partly part of, it's maybe my own thinking, but part of this. My aunt and uncle in Australia uncle passed away a couple years ago. My aunt is still, you know, having an incredible time around the world. And um, they have friendships that are 40 plus years. They had a marriage of 40 years. And then the friendships have been just as long, if not longer. And, and I've asked, uh, them on, you know, asked my uncle before he passed away and I've asked my aunt on multiple occasions, said, how have you gone about building those, how have you gone about maintaining those when you don't live in the same location anymore? Right. And ah, because they've been through so many different things together and I think there's something so wonderful about going through life and that amount of life and, and I know I'm starting to experience that through this. What I'm um, 10 years into this process now and there's still relationships from earlier, but especially over this, of being really deliberate about it over the past decade. Um, it's only, I don't know, man, it's like, it's only now that there's, you know, people are having kids or people are having grandkids. I just spoke to a really good friend of mine who's about to become a grandpa for the time. I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, that's, that's amazing, right? People have gone out of business, people have, people have gone, you know, had extraordinary challenges. People have passed away, um, they've started something new like these. I just, I feel like again, um, those of us who, who truly bring this human component to the next decade where we're going to see more change than we could even begin to imagine that is coming and to have that underlying current of genuine friendship and business relationships, professional relationships and family relationships, and these deep and meaningful connections in a world that is more, feels more isolated than ever before. And it's showing the epidemic of loneliness within North America. Like these are real things that are going on right now and are becoming worse. Right. You know, within Gen, I think there was a, there was a study, ah, I looked at a while ago. Don't quote me on the exact numbers, but I remember doing some research a little while ago. There was somewhere around 30 to 50% of adults right now in the US feel lonely. And you take that to Gen z and it's 79%. This is getting worse. And, and again, uh, utilizing with intention the technology that we're utilizing, but learning how to build these real deep relationships. I mean that again, that's what's going to generate opportunities in the future as well. Right? Um, that's what's going to like from a business standpoint, but from a personal standpoint as well. So I got, yeah, maybe got my aunt and uncle to thank a bit for this one. Um, and, and genuinely building those relationships.

Speaker A: They'll have to thank them for me as well. It's brilliant. It seems. Um, I guess we, as time goes by, you become comfortable and you like engagement with the person. So time becomes nothing. It could have said 30 years because it's just felt like you've been part of that time period the whole time. So I guess, well, one, you've done a great job on obviously making sure that you stay connected and working with the person, but not just from a business standpoint, from ah, empathetical and mindset and all of these different areas that really tie in to get the other person just as equally interested or wanting to learn more. I think the key is that you want to learn more as well. I think that's always a good thing. Um, and it kind of goes back to when you're bonding, building these relationships and maybe we're going full circle. But you did this with your wife by putting something on her to surprise her with, which is tying back into that, hey, I went above and beyond to share with you how much I appreciate our relationship. So you did something that was above and beyond. So it's the same thing as, um, you coming into Toronto and running a dinner and inviting everybody in. You did things that hooked people in so they would never forget. And I think those are really key things that I think people forget, is that it doesn't have to be transactional or a demand. It has to be something that you care to give to keep that conversation and that relationship building. So I think as you start to progress in life, and maybe to me this is a valuable lesson because introverted people don't tend to be very good at figuring out how to make connections, keep connections and do that. They have like one or two and they just cherish them. Whereas when you're really good at it, you can have 10, 30, 50 relationships. And you're so good at 50 relationships that I'm good at one. So you kind of try to figure out what the balance is and what can we do better or what can everybody do better to make these relationships build on and grow? And I think coming full circle, um, and before we transition into our last kind of segment, I wanted to say to you is like, how do I take all of these things that we've talked about today and kind of shift that into, um, like building peak performance. Because I think there's also this element of, and you said this earlier, I've been cutting things out, I've been getting rid of things. Well, getting rid of things makes you feel less stressed, you have less things to worry about. But on the other side is that you have a million relationships you're trying to manage. How do you manage all of these and still keep peak performance? How do you get people still interested in what you're doing and how you drive everything forward while maintaining lots of relationships and maybe too many things? What is the advice that you would say, you know, clean this up, change this, get rid of this. What are some of the things that you tell the leaders you work with? Hey, I'm a founder, I'm building a company, I'm overstressed. I can't manage all of this. I'd rather just go back and work for someone and do one job and stay focused. How do you get people to kind of shift their mindset so that they can accomplish these things and they can do all this?

Speaker B: That's a good question. First is understand from a purpose standpoint, first and foremost, right? What's the outcome that you want to achieve and why? All right, and we get clear on that first and foremost because how can you possibly determine what to cut in and what to leave out, cut out and what to leave in if you don't have clarity of the outcome that you're aiming to achieve in the first place? Uh, so that's absolute critical. And so once you've got clarity of the outcome that you're aiming to achieve, then you can go about building a criteria for what that looks like. Right? And so let's say specific outcome. I want to generate X amount of, uh, business over the next 12 months. Okay. Based on that, if we just use the relationships, you know, to start with is, okay, so how many relationships do you need to make that happen? How many conversations do you have to have to make in order to make that happen? Um, once you've got clarity about the different pieces of criteria that need to occur, then it becomes, uh, do you really want it? Do, uh, you really, do you really want it? Or you just say you want it. And if it is that you really want it, then then it becomes, okay, uh, what are you going to do? What are you not going to do all together? Also, what are you not going to do? But you're going to delegate to somebody else or something else in terms of a piece of technology and, and get really clear on that and what that looks like because just because you're, you're not going to do it doesn't mean that somebody else isn't going to do it. Right. It could be just that you're going to delegate that off to somebody else because it's, you know, potentially still needs to be done. If you want to generate X number of opportunities, you know, certain number of opportunities have to be generated, which means that X number of relationships have to be, have to be generated. Right. And so what, what you can look for and what I look for is leverage. Right. You meant you shared the example of the dinner, um, you know, and the times that, you know, we've done, uh, different events in, in Toronto and gotten people together. It's, it's a leveraged component. Right. There's multiple people there versus it being a one on one conversation. There's a time and a place for a one on one conversation. They're great to have. Um, second is the utilization of technology. Right. So being able to have a conversation like this versus having to go somewhere and having to drive 20 minutes, having an hour meeting and then driving back again. There's a time and a place for those, but make sure that it's, that it's at the appropriate time. Right. Uh, there's other parts of the relationship that you can potentially delegate and offload to somebody else. Uh, when it comes to the content creation side and posting in other areas, you still might be creating the content, but um, but you're uh, offloading certain parts of the process to being able to get that content out there. Like you've got a team to be able to edit the um, the podcast for example. Right. If you had to do all of this, everything, every single thing from start to finish, would you still be doing it? Probably not.

Speaker A: Probably not.

Speaker B: It'd be a lot more difficult. Right. Especially with the other stuff that you've got to manage. And so it's a constant journey of how do you think of it as a ship, right. And you're heading in that direction. How do you stay the course? How do you stay on course? And there's going to be times where you're shifting in direction, you're shifting out of, you know, shifting a little bit off. 1%, 2%, 5% off. If you allow that to get so far off track, then it takes a huge amount of time, effort, energy and money to bring that back around again. But if you're consistently in the way, I do it with clients and I do it with my own self as well. Was those four key Questions. I meant, I alluded to one earlier. The progress pulse is what's working, what's not, what are you doing about it, and what help do you need? Right, what's working, what's not, what are you going to do about it? What help do you need? Um, by answering those four questions regularly, right. On a consistent basis, it enables you in that process of what are you going to do about it? Well, you know what? I think I need to eliminate this. This is not working anymore, right? This is not working like it used to. There's definitely some things in, in my, my approach now that aren't working like they used to. And so just because something worked before doesn't mean it's going to work now. And so looking at, okay, being able to ask those questions regularly because otherwise, you know, you do it a year later or six months later. Same with, like performance reviews. If you're doing that six months later or 12 months later, you've gotten so far off track and you're having to make this massive shift in direction. The key is how quickly can you bring it back to center again? How quickly can you bring it back to the direction that you're going in? I mean, ensuring that you're removing the things that not a fit, um, aligned to things that are, um, and ensuring that you're staying the course as well through act discipline. And I think that's a few key parts to it at least.

Speaker A: I love this. And you always have great analogies. They're always like a line in my head. I'm like, this is good. Yes. And you're always going to move to catch the wind. You move the ship. You got to do things like that to kind of work and be competitive. Um, is there something that you would say? Um, if you're going to work this way, you need to have someone to hold you true. So if that's your team or that's your partner, someone has to hold you to the North Star or keep you true. Um, what do you look for in that? And do you get people to push you so that you are always, um, aligning to the direction? Because a lot of people sometimes wean or fall off or don't want to do things. And then what are you giving up in order to do this? Are you giving up anything or are you making it better? Because I think sometimes we forget offsetting stuff is good. Like dropping these 10 things can actually free up your mind and you'll be better at relationships because you can talk to them better, whatever that might be. But Are there things that you say, this is what you got to give up to be better and have somebody push you on these things if you want to stay aligned to what your goals are?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, social media is a big one and TV and stuff like that. Like, you gotta ask yourself how, like, are you consuming? Content is fine. I really enjoy, you know, consuming. There's certain pieces of content that I really enjoy consuming. I'm a massive lover of Australian football, and so, you know, each weekend I enjoy sitting down and watching that and then watching this show afterwards. It helps me keep and stay connected to Australia even though I don't live there anymore. Um, and so you want to find. Find things and people that help keep you centered and, and then ask yourself, like, what, what is. What is throwing me off center? And usually it's going to be either some kind of technology, all right? It's going to be a habit that you have right now that's dysfunctional and needs to change. And you know what? It is already. Like, those of you tuning in, you're going to. Yeah, yeah, you know what? I need to be, you know, cutting this out of my diet or, you know, I need to be getting to the gym more often, or this and that. And the, uh, other one is there's often going to be people that are setting you off track. Like, are you surrounding yourself with the people that are aligned to the future version of yourself? Not just where you are now, but aligned to the future version of yourself? Who are you becoming? Right? And I, I say yes. You know, people work with me to, to get, you know, further accountability and, and coaching and transformation and breakthroughs and, and that's needed at different times. And the people I best work with are those that even if we didn't do it, they would have gone and done it anyway. It's just, we're going to get there faster. We're going to get there in a more effective way. Right. Because they've valued time more than anything else. Um, and, and so developing that internal, internal drive, internal accountability, sometimes, yes, it does take someone like myself or somebody else in order to build that. But what you're aiming to build is, is building that within your own self because you spend more time with yourself than anybody else. And there's bound to be times where there's no one else around. What are you doing? Like, how are you executing when nobody else is around? And only you know the answer to that. If you get really vulnerable with yourself, though, and ask yourself, how can I continue to step up here? And develop the internal accountability. Because internal accountability, with external accountability, you will be unstoppable. Right into, uh, not having the internal accountability, but waiting and relying on external accountability. You do it. As long as the external stimuli is there, as long as the personal trainer is there, you'll work out. As long as the other person over here is your spouse here, you're going to do it. You behave in this way, but the true authentic self and your ability to thrive in alignment with who you really are comes from internal and then emanates outward. And then you utilize the different tools, techniques, people, right. To generate an even greater version of yourself. And I think that is such a recipe for, I mean, it comes to me full circle. Everything that we've spoken about is how do you build the ability to tell great stories, build your ability to hold yourself accountable, build your ability to be vulnerable and work through the stuff that's happened. Yes. Find a coach or read a book or go to a seminar or do your own reflection on the top of a mountain. Like whatever it is that you feel that you need to do, but ensure that the things that you're utilizing, right, the tools, the techniques, the technology, the people that those are lining up with where it is that you're going. Right? And you do that and you become unstoppable because there's unshakable momentum that comes from each of these pieces lining up.

Speaker A: I love it. That's brilliant. You summarized my summary, so I think it was, uh, very well put. And you're right in coming full circle. Those are really the meat and potatoes of how you can build better relationships, better relationship with yourself. Execute report better to everybody and to yourself. Be vulnerable. Um, build relationship. Open the gate up. Um, you know, when you're steering your ship, get some help. You can't just steer a big, massive boat yourself. So there's a lot of these things, to your point, that really tie in, but it all starts with yourself and your own desires and drive and being accountable. And I think that really makes a big difference. So I think what you've shared is, uh, brilliant and of course, taking lots of notes. And that's why I love talking with you. You always, uh, bring great analogies, but you put it in a frame that allows you to actually understand how can I be better tomorrow? And I like to use the line, what I don't do today, I fail tomorrow. Which doesn't mean you're going to stay up all night because you got to keep getting things done. But it's, what do I have to do to make tomorrow better. What do I have to keep shifting? And that will allow you to see a better focus of your business, your life, your personal life and all of those things. And today I'm going to learn that I need to draw, put the drawbridge down a lot more. Uh, maybe just leave it open and see what happens. But I think there's, uh, you know, that'll probably help me steer the ship better, too. But, you know, I really think it's been, uh, some really amazing, uh, learning. And I'm going to use the, um, uh, on the storytelling side. I'm going to really focus on this. What stories can I tell? And I love storytelling, but what story can I tell that's going to get the oxytocin go. The word is what? Oxy.

Speaker B: Oxytocin.

Speaker A: Oxytocin in my brain and everybody else's brain triggering. Because I think that's going to be the game changer. So. So I'm going to say, um, before we do sign off, I'm going to say, Cameron, it's been brilliant getting to talk with you again and going through all of this. Um, you helped, uh, close a lot of, um, uh, angles for me and open up a lot more doors on all of this, which is great. Um, any last things that you want to share to the community, the investors, the startups, the business people out there, anything you want to share, I turn it over to you. But again, I appreciate all your time. It's been brilliant.

Speaker B: Well, I always appreciate our conversations as well. It's always an absolute blast. And I just say to those of you, those of you listening in is that, uh, you're capable of much more than you realize. Right. And continue, continue raising your bar, continue raising your standards, because the world needs it. Right? The world needs those that are creating things of value and things of value with a sense of purpose as well, ensuring that we are evolving as a species. We are about to enter into, uh, an evolutionary period like nothing we've ever experienced before. And. And if we, if we're intentional, I am extraordinarily optimistic about where we're going to head as a species. And if we're not intentional, all right, then the exact opposite is the case. Right. Uh, we have the opportunity to steer the ship. We have the opportunity to choose where we go with this. And, um, what an incredible future we have if we do.

Speaker A: I love it and I agree. Well, thank you very much, Cameron. It's been a great discussion.

Speaker B: Awesome, man. All right, chat soon.