FINDING VISION BY UNDERSTANDING YOUR IDENTITY | Strategy to Embrace Your Destiny | Dr. Dave Jones

Speaker A: You know, most of us are chasing another comma in our bank account. We're chasing another house, uh, you know, bigger boat, faster car. It's a Ferris wheel that we all have jumped on. It's a cycle that the world tells us. The more stuff you have and the more money you have in your bank account, the better off you are. But we know that when we feel fulfilled is when we are glorifying something bigger than ourselves.

Speaker B: Hey, what's going on? This is Bret Snodgrass with another episode of the Iron Deep podcast. I got Dr. Dave Jones on the podcast with me today.

Speaker A: What's going on, Dave, man, super excited to be here. Um, I'm, I'm excited to talk about identity today. I've been uh, praying about this and uh, this podcast and doing this with you. Um, yeah, I'm super excited to be here, so thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Yeah man, I'm, I'm excited too. Uh, you have uh, a history and uh, you, you've done a lot of different things in your life, Dr. Dave. And uh, just to let you guys in, who Dave Jones is, uh, he has been a professional athlete in the hockey space. Uh, he's done been in military. Um, he has a doctorate that uh, we're going to talk about about, you know, sports psychology. And he's been coaching peak performing athletes for the last decade plus, uh, he's written a book, uh, he's co found or founded M M is good in 202001 and has an R7 process. We're going to talk about that and let's talk about vision and, and today we're really dive into, to identity and uh, so Dave, I want to kind of kick it off with this. Um, obviously you've lived the seasons of your life. Uh, you've been in the athletic military, business owner, entrepreneur, you've led very successful businesses. Uh, was there a certain season that you felt was maybe the most broken of, of you or, or where you kind of got lost in your own identity? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Um, it really is my motivation and what I do today and was a motivation to spend 13 years of, you know, chasing a doctorate in sport and performance psychology. But, um, I've had about 57 stitches in my face. I've had seven concussions and really my last concussion was the biggest one. Um, but even before that, because hockey was my identity and who I was and I left that sport. Um, I think my story is probably similar to yours. You know, you were basketball, I was hockey. Um, I had been playing pro in Europe, and that was my life up to about 25. And, um, I just, I already had a poor self image. I already didn't like myself. I tried to put other people down to make myself look good, which we all know doesn't work. And, um, you know, so I, I just found myself when I left, um, sports and when I left hockey, I found myself in a curb in a city I'd never been in. And the only way I knew how to, to kind of scratch out of that deep hole was to put other people down. And, um, and so that's where, you know, I really want to jump into what I call flap today. Um, so that's your fear, lust, anger, pride that we all navigate in our peaks and valleys. And, um, it's not like we get a get. We eliminate fear, we eliminate lust, we eliminate pride. Um, we eliminate our anger, we manage it. And so, you know, everything's about peaks and valleys. And so how we manage our fear, lust, anger, pride is, is really, um, how well I believe that we can be aligned with God's, God's calling in our life. I've worked with so many different executives and professional athletes over the years, and these are the four major, I would say, triggers that get in our way, um, that we try to navigate. And by the way, lust, some people say, well, lust, you know, I never had a pornography problem. Well, lust comes in different forms, right? Lust can be, you know, lusting for a bigger house, faster car, bigger boat. And um. And so, you know, we think that once we get those things that we're going to be better, you know, when really it's just a masking tool. You're just masking. And that's getting in the way of, you know, um, your, your feeling fulfilled in your purpose and your calling.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, uh, uh, I can, I can be right there with you. Um, you know, you know, fear, lust, anger, pride. And you talked about you had a poor self image. And where do you think that like, kind of stems from? You try to mask that and try to make up for it. But you obviously were successful in your industry, right? The hockey, the hockey arena. Right? You were, you were successful. Uh, what do you think happened? Uh, why did you have a poor self image? Why do people have poor self image where even the most successful people accomplish so much, still struggle with this low self esteem?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, behind me is, you know, if you see over here, there's a bunch of sports psychology journals. And, um, you know, what I discovered through my studies that usually the more successful people are, the more dysfunction that there is. And so what we're doing is we're masking that dysfunction. Not everybody. It's not a, you know, like a general. I mean, it's a general statement, but, um, not everybody. But most people, they're. They're masking whatever that issue is. And that issue could be a myriad. Myriad of things. Usually it stems back to your childhood. For me, it was approval seeking. You know, I never got validation from my parents, so I felt like, well, I know the more goals I scored as a. You, as a young athlete, the more attention I got. So you know what I did? I learned how to score more goals.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's fun. It brings you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Temporary, uh, joy, happiness.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I didn't. I didn't know that one day scoring goals was gonna end. You know, what am I gonna do now?

Speaker B: We.

Speaker A: Some of us are old enough. Old enough. Remember Terry Bradshaw from the quarterback form through the Pittsburgh Steelers? You know, he was clinically depressed. The height of his depression is when he won the Super Bowl.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And so he didn't know what to do, so he went one another when another went and won another Super Bowl. Sorry. And so, uh, yeah, so, you know, most of us are chasing, ah, another common. Our bank account. We're chasing another house. You know, bigger boat, faster car, newer. Like, it's a. It's a. It's a, um, a Ferris wheel that we all have jumped on. Right. It's a cycle that the world tells us. The more stuff you have and the more money you have in your bank account, um, the better off you are. But we know that when we fulfill. When we feel fulfilled is when we are glorifying something bigger than ourselves.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I want to get. I read a book called the Seasons of Life, and it talked about men. And I use this in some of the talks, uh, that I talk about is that men typically start off getting approval at the ball court, the hockey arena or the baseball field, whatever. Whatever you call it. And then it typically goes into the bedroom, which is like, hey, can I hook up with women? Or how many women can I date or get it with or. And then for the rest of their life, it goes to the billfold, which, again, it's like, oh, now how much money can I make? That's the same as goals.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: For a lot of men. Um, and we struggle with that. So I want to just talk about you again as I go a little bit deeper into this conversation. If you were to strip away you know, some of the, the trophies and things from your own life. Uh, maybe the coach, um, you know, that you have the titles, the doctorate, maybe strip some of that stuff away and talk about you, like, you know, at your core, at your core identity. Talk about that. And was there a moment in your life that, you know, this is a process and it's, and it's a journey, but was there something that really shook you up, like, man, just, just woke you up, or was it just this process where, you know, um. Yeah. Can you talk about your. Just your own identity, your own journey? Who is Dave Jones at his core?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, um, you know, my vision is to unify excellence in the marketplace. So that is the cure to flap, you know, is having a vision that glorifies the Lord. Um, and I think that I want to step back just a second and say that, um, I think that possessions are okay. Having nice stuff is cool, but when you lust over them, it's a different story. And only you know that, and you know that with your ebony father. But I've had many times where I've had an epiphany of, this sucks, you know, and I need to change, and I don't like who I am and I need to change. You know, um, one of the most earliest moments is when I was in Germany and, um, I was mowing the lawn on a deer on a John Deere tractor, and, uh, an F16 was taxiing my way. And we were kind of going in the same path, like it was the tractor and then the airplane we were kind of going alongside. And I remember looking over to the pilot and he, you know, he salutes me and I, and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm on a tractor and he's in a fifty million dollar aircraft. What's wrong with me? Like, I feel so unfulfilled here. And what decisions did he make to get to where he is? And the decision that. Decisions that I got to be where I'm at. I need to change. And that was the, um, that was really the biggest moment of, like, I need to change. And I, and I just want to encourage the audience out there that you, we all can have these moments now. The decision to change comes with change. You know, it's pretty simple. You know, if there's no change, there's no change. But when you change, man, that opens the door to gratitude and thankfulness and forgiveness. You know, um, the fruits of the spirit come in, you know, love, peace, patience, self control, um, you know, that and that sort of overcomes, you know, to me, and you say, okay, I am grateful, but I want to. I want something more. Lord, what is that? Or how do I glorify you in this valley? You know, so lots of peaks, lots of valleys for me, but I. I've kind of learned to glorify him in the valley. Right. This is awesome. I don't know what the story is here, but I'm going to come through it. Great thing about a valley is, hey, man, we're going on a peak because we're in a valley. Bad thing about a valley is you're going down, you know. Bad thing about a peak is you're going in a valley, you know, and so, um, had lots of those moments, man. Like, I got a. This is crazy when you hear a story of. Of. Of Dave being in a valley.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I was coaching, uh, a bunch of pro hockey players on mental toughness, and I'm in, um. I'm in Providence, Rhode island, and I, um, was standing in the lobby. Okay. Standing in the lobby, which actually was opened to the rink, and I just looked behind. Now, if you. If you notice, most hockey rinks, the doors are on the side. This particular rink, the door was on the end by the net, and the door was open, and so a guy took a slap shot, went over the goal through the lobby and hit me in the skull and cracked my skull.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And, um, you know, that was my. That was my seventh concussion. And, um, you know, went to the emergency room. There's a whole story of it, man. Like, just totally knocked me out. Um. And, um, you know, that's a valley. Mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. Like, you know, um, I was saved by the grace of God, honestly, because within 24 hours, they. They put me on an airplane. And, um, that was. That was not a good idea. When you have hemorrhaging and you're, you know, your skull is cracked and you're hemorrhaging, you know, like you don't want to be on the airplane. The altitude, you know, increases, um, the blood flow, and, you know, that's where, you know, I think Liam Neeson's white wife died from that. But, um, so definitely a valley there, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. How'd you come out of that? I mean, you know, you come out of something like that, you know, I don't. That probably took a while to. To heal from something like that. And then. What's that look like?

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, I would say that, um, you know, what. What got me out of it is prayer. What got me out of it is, um, you know, the belief that God. God is present. God is real, you know, and that I can. I can overcome.

Speaker B: That's good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So we.

Speaker C: I want to move on. Talking about your book, Secret War Within. This book is amazing. I'll just say it up front. I could not put it down. Thank you for sending me a copy. And I get sent copies, and I have just been a, uh, catalog of books that I'm trying to get through. And so I didn't know if I would have time for this. And I started, like, the first chapter, and I had, like, three other books I'm reading. But then I just. I just came back to this, like, for the course of a week. And that doesn't happen where I just don't put a book down. And this was just something that definitely wanted to have you on, talk about it, because I think everyone needs to read this, especially men. It really speaks to the heart of the matter. And it's an allegory, which is also not a book I would normally read, but it's one of those things that I think that it just tells such a, uh, powerful story without breaking it down. Chapter, verse, and, like, diving into all the nitty gritty. It just tells a powerful story that so many people can relate to.

Speaker B: Purchase the Secret War within on Amazon, leave a review and share a snippet of your experience with us, uh, through email or text. To show our gratitude, we'll send you a special gift. Just include your name and address in your message. I look forward to hearing from you. We talk about this flap. So, men, it's funny that, you know, you talk about fear, and, uh, a lot of people I run with, uh, you know, are driven because of fear.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we think, oh, if we. If we can achieve this amount of whatever it is or recognition or power or money or whatever it is, then maybe that fear will. Will go away. And, um. And it doesn't. It never really goes away, um, until, you know, you really work on yourself and, uh, working on your relationship with the Lord, uh, that typically the people have the most money are just afraid to lose it. So the fear creeps in. Right. So, um, and then we have lust, anger, and pride. Where do you kind of start with someone. So, uh, I know you work with, obviously professional athletes and business entrepreneurs as well, but say I'm struggling. I mean, I'm. I'm struggling. And a lot of times successful people don't even know they're struggling. Like, it's like they don't even. They don't know. Like, they have everything the world could offer. Um, so they don't really know. They just. This is just life. They. They know they're not happy. So, uh. But one of these. But. But they're just not fulfilled, I guess, right? Maybe is. They're just. They hit that. So what do you kind of. How do you work with someone like that?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I. I love to build off of strengths. So I would start with vision, right? Like, what is the vision? And so, you know, God talks about the Bible. Sorry, God. The Bible talks about vision. You know, specifically. The reference I love is Habakkuk Tutu. You know, Habakkuk is, uh. At the time, I've kind of looked at Nineveh as New York and Los angeles in the 70s. Like, anything went in Nineveh. It was crazy time, right? Nobody wanted to go to Nineveh. Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh. Nobody wants to go there, right? And so Habakkuk goes up on this watchtower in Habakkuk 2, 2 and says, God, I'm frustrated, man. Like, what is going on? This is crazy. Are you even there? I'm gonna sit here until you answer. And God answers them and says, you know, write the vision on a tablet. And then the. In the amplified, it says, um, write the vision on tablet and make it plain. So they're running, running by, can see it and carry it with them. And so if we translate that onto, like, you know, our lives today, to me, it's like driving down the highway and you see a billboard and it says, McDonald's next exit. You can process that, that if I'm hungry, I'm going to get off, go to McDonald's or Gas Next exit. When you have more than 11 words on a billboard, you're just not going to remember it. So my vision statement. So let me work on a vision statement. When we start with, you know, the passion that's in your heart, you know, a prayerful passion. It could be excellence. It could be committed, could be determined. It could be, uh, dedicated. You know, what is it that you are passionate about? And in sort of a rough kind of way to get there, we start with what makes you mad, like, what upsets you? Because if what upsets you? Like, I can tell you that what upsets me is like, I don't like it when people are late. But I wouldn't say my vision is, I don't like it when you're late, Brett. You know what I mean? You know, so you flip that to a positive and say, man, I'm always on time. I love being on time, right? And so I love being committed. I love being dedicated to my family, you know. And so, like, your vision is something that is precious to your heart. It's almost a, uh, a core value. And so, so it answers, why now? I do want to just slow down here and geek out for a second. Because vision is really, really hard. It is super hard to think about. And let me tell you why. Um, when we're talking about the brain, the amygdala, which is like this pea size, like little acorn, um, in your brain, there's two of them, and it processes everything. It takes the what, where, when, how, and has this fight or flight response. Yes, I want to be part of it. No, I don't want to be. So it takes all the emotions and sorts them and says, this is good, this is bad. This is where vision sets in. Vision. Vision is in the. Is in. In the amygdala, whereas the what, where, when and how sits in the neocortex. So we can say, you know, the church vision is to, um, you know, communicate the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now, how are we going to go do that? We're going to go do that with, you know, you know, missions, children's ministry, preaching and teaching, you know, um, worship. We're going to do this a number of different ways. That's kind of the how. That's the mission. So the vision is really, really hard to write. It's 711 words, no conjunctions. It's short, portable, easy, understand, memorable, inspiring statement. Um, and so I can give you some examples of people in the marketplace that have done this. Well, Bill, um, Gates, a computer in every home, right? And when he came out with that vision, you know, computers were literally the size of a house. You know, it was crazy talk. FedEx came out with, we're going to be in every city every day. Like, that was crazy. Now they're in every city every day, four times a day. You know what I mean? Like crazy. So the vision is something that's way out there. It's more inspirational. It's not factual. You know, that sort of navigates that, ah, that brings us to the North Star of what you're doing. And we position it in a position of strength, of what you do well. And then your fear, lust, anger, pride, your flap is just something we manage along the way. We don't ever get rid of it. It's like stress. We don't ever get rid of it. There's no such thing as I'm stress free. That doesn't, that doesn't work. You know, we manage the stress, right? You know, we manage our fatigue, we manage our energy. You know, there are peaks and valleys and all that. So, um, so we start with vision to answer.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's great. I remember. I don't know if this was his vision or not, but Steve Jobs, I just remember, you know, you get the one liners. I think he said when he came out with the ipod, it was like a thousand songs in your pocket. And at that time you had CDs, right? You had cases of CDs, yeah.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Um.

Speaker B: What? So I know we only got about 10 or 15 minutes left. I want. Why do you think it's so hard for. For vision? I know we talked. You mentioned that a little bit. But it's funny. Like, I can talk to guys about what they do. Hey, what do you, what do you do? What do you like doing? What's your hobbies? When you start talking about vision, like, there's almost like a freeze. Uh, it's just, there's a. Paralyzes people. Um, they're like, I don't know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they don't even want to talk about it. They don't, they don't want to think about it. They don't want to talk about it. Um, just paralyzes them. Talk about purpose. What's your, what you're calling purpose in life? I don't know. Or they might give a vague answer, which, you know, obviously it's to glorify God, obviously, if you're walking that walk. And that's. That's true.

Speaker A: Yeah. But that's not the vision.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like what? You know. Yeah, that's. That's kind of a cop out answer. Yeah, well, of course, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll tell you that it. It's hard for a reason. You know, the devil comes to kill, steal and destroy and provide confusion in our life. You know, it's. It's the world around us of the microwave mentality, of I want it quick. And, you know, vision's not that. I will tell you that there are two tenets of a human being. The pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain. So vision, you want to get into my psyche and like, really work on this and, you know, like, let's grind through it. Ah, let's just go play some golf, man. Like, I'm good.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.

Speaker A: We just have a beer and watch the game, man.

Speaker B: Right, for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't want to grind.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, stinks.

Speaker B: You know, most people will. And I've heard this, I didn't come up with this, but they say most people run faster to get away from pain than they will for pleasure.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: For example, like to get in shape. If, if you're dying and the doctor says, hey, you're gonna die in six months, then you pretty. You. You probably are gonna get your life together. Some try to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Versus just to get in shape, just to be healthier and have energy. Energy that's not worth it sometimes anyway. Yeah, that's what I see.

Speaker A: It's. It's a tough process. It's expensive. You know, it's. It's something you got to grind through. You know, you got to really look back to really find that nugget of motivation. But when you do see what's cool is when you do, man, the upside is unreal fulfillment. Right. Um, not every day. Not, you know, it's not a utopia where it's, you know, all, all your problems go away. That's not it, man. We gotta, we gotta grind. We know where we're going. It's. It's a North Star. That road is very narrow. Gotta stay in your lane. Distractions are easy. Right. Um, you know, um, sure, some of the most unpopular things and you probably won't like this, but like, you know, your family, you know, things get. You're. You're super successful in the real estate. Like, you sacrificed that vision. You sacrificed your family for that vision to do that. At some point, you know, vision is. Something is for you and your vertical alignment with the Lord. And so things get sacrificed. Things have to change. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm not saying all circumstances, but like, you know, I, I had a mentor early on. Say, Dave, if you want a, A new level in your life, get a new set of friends. Because you're the combination of your five friends. Mhm. So if you don't like that, go get some new friends. That hurt me. But you know what I did? You know what I did? I went and gotten some new friends, man. Yep, that changed.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I totally, totally agree. Um, you mentioned I, uh, had something on tip of my tongue there. Just family sacrificing certain things. Uh, here it is. That, uh, a lot of people overcorrect. I've seen this in my own life and we typically overcorrect. So like, you've talked about like success, right? And I've chased all this stuff too. Chased money and things and stuff like that. If you Looked at my vision board when I was 28. Different than when I'm 45. Yeah. Um, but a lot of times men overcorrect. Like, man, I'm tired of grinding. I'm tired of chasing this. And I got this business and I'm successful, but this isn't fulfilling. So I'm going to overcorrect and walk away from all, all of that to

Speaker A: go to the mission field,

Speaker B: support or whatever it is. Yeah. Or like family. It's like, man, I've sacrificed my family for business. I'm going completely family, 100%, and stay at home, dad. Now I've just seen so many things. Can you speak a little bit into that? Because I've. I've done that in my own life. Like, uh, we. We just completely go the opposite direction.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's natural. I think there are some thinking traps out there, and one of them is all or nothing thinking. So it's black and white. You know, I've got athletes that'll say, you know, coach doesn't like me. I'm like, why? You know, this is a goalie one time said, well, he doesn't like my pads that are gold. I hate those pads. Coach doesn't like me. You know, um, that's all or nothing thinking. It's right. You're associating one thing with everything. You know, Um, I don't have money. I'm a loser. I need the change. No, you're not a loser. You know, your bank account doesn't define you. Right? Um, I don't have. Geez. I have a boat, but it's. It's kind of small. I wish I had that other boat. I'm not as good as that guy. No, not true. It's a lie, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker A: And so I think it's that, you know, that Old Testament, uh, quid pro quo, performance related, when, you know, we can't outperform Jesus, man. Like, it's our love that he wants. It's our gratitude that he wants. You know, it's that. It's that performance versus identity that's not easy to navigate, man. This is. This is tough stuff here, what we're talking about. Right? And, um. And it's hard. It's just hard and it's hard to navigate. And. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't navigate it. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't give up, that you should give up on being fulfilled. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You've gone through a similar journey, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I'm still going through the journey.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Independently, the pendulum swing. Some days, yeah. I'm in the valley, right. You know?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Sometimes it just depends on. I'm not immune to any of that. For the devil to come after me. When you start getting into this, man, I've had the devil come after me more in the last few years, just since I've started getting in more into this, uh, you know, into this ministry and just trying to, you know, impact people's lives for the kingdom. So that's a. That's a long, long story. But, um, I know we've got a few minutes left here. Uh, I want to ask you just a personal question you mentioned, you know, when you come up with your vision. Like, I'll ask you, like, what do you hate?

Speaker A: What do I hate?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I hate messiness.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I hate. I hate disorganization.

Speaker B: Why, you're.

Speaker A: What's that?

Speaker B: Your office looks really clean, by the way. Super impeccable. Yeah, I'm like the guy that, you know, you see this? But if you were to zoom out, it's you, probably.

Speaker A: So in full transparency. This is my podcast room. So I do keep it clean, but, um. But I keep. You know, I try to keep everything clean and things get messy, but I. I just don't like messy, and I don't. I don't know what that is, but. So I flip that to a positive. And I love excellence, man. I love a VIP experience. I love follow, uh, up and follow through. Um, I. I honestly, I don't like details. But you know what? I've learned to love details because that's. That's where the money's at. You know what I mean? That's. That's where the rubber meets the road and understanding where we're going, what we're doing. Um, and so. But I, you know, I've just learned that. That messy follows me, and I hate it. So I don't. I don't try to run from it. I try to embrace it and say, let's. Let's clean it up, man. Let's. Look at this. Give me everything so I can sort it. And that's where I. That's where I thrive. You know, that's where M. M is good has thrived over the years. It's our 25th year. We're one of the largest Christian ad agencies in the world.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so, um, you know, we got some awesome clients that appreciate that detail and that excellence. And, you know, when it comes to media, website messaging, KPI management, like, you know, There's a lot of detail there that we need to organize. And so we just, just thrive in that. And that's what I love that you. We can thrive in our fulfillment, we can thrive in our bank accounts, but it doesn't have to be our identity. We want to thrive in honoring the Lord with our talents and our abilities. And I am thankful. I do that every day.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Now I think if we can help, uh, we just need more, uh, companies like your organization in, in the marketplace leading from faith, uh, if we can help other Christian, you know, kingdom driven entrepreneurs just, just to raise up. I mean I just think, uh, yeah, I just love companies and, and or and with integrity, trust. I just love, uh, what that's all about, that we can help further the kingdom. So, um, as we wrap up, I want to just ask you, you know, last personal question. Like, you know, you're, you're on podcast. I think you got your book called Vision Wins. I believe, um, people can get that Vision Wins by Dave Jones. And uh, what are you wanting to kind of accomplish by you know, coming, coming on shows and, and getting the word out, writing a book. Um, is this part of your marketing or you know, your, your coaching? Like what's, what's your kind of vision with some of that, uh, putting yourself out there and having conversations like this?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. I just feel like, um, you know, my story of, of faith and building a business and um, just inspire people out there. We don't need more business. Honestly, we're slammed. Um, but I, I love communicating my story to give, give some people some hope, um, and so that they can do the same. Every. We get one to two leads from all around the world, uh, a week and whether we pick them up as a client or not, um, I always try to encourage everyone that comes through and say thank you for stepping out for the gospel of Jesus Christ, man. We are one of the, you know, there's few of us out there anymore and I would do everything I can to, to make it successful for you. And so I want to empower, want to inspire people, um, with my, with I think my simple story of, you know, just following the Lord and, and being, um, attuned to the Holy Spirit as best I can. I make mistakes and just asking for wisdom every day. So.

Speaker B: Awesome. I love that.

Speaker A: Uh, thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, no problem. Where, where can someone, uh, just kind of get, get to reach out to you more. Um, I know you have a couple of podcasts M M is good, obviously, but. Yeah, uh, where's the best place?

Speaker A: Yeah, I would just go to msgood m.com and, you know, fill out the contact form. Those eventually get to me. And I'd love to hear your story.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, sounds good. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Dave. Really appreciate it. Going, uh, just deep with us on the Iron D podcast. And love, uh, who you are, what you stand for. Uh, you know, wish you so much success. And thanks again, brother.

Speaker A: Thank you, Brett. Appreciate your time.

Speaker B: Go to irondeep.com and check out other resources we have to help you on your journey. We'd love to connect with you. As iron sharpens, Iron friends. Sharpen friends.