NFL COLTS CHAPLAIN GOES DEEP | From Locker Rooms to Living Rooms | Impact Made Off Stage | Ken Johnson

Speaker A: As a speaker, you want to move people to action and move people to, you know, to be something. And so when you come off the stage, sometimes it's almost like, you know, you sign books, you become this celebrity dude, and then, you know, you don't get to go out to lunch and go. Go deep with people. Some of my relationship became very superficial. You can do all the ministry in the world from the stage, but it's when you come off the stage and you really linger with people and you go deep with them that you really make an.

Speaker B: Hey, what's going on? This is Brett Snodgrass with another episode of the Iron Deep podcast. Got a friend of mine on the podcast with me today. Mr. Ken Johnson in the house. What's going on, Ken?

Speaker A: Bro, it's blessed to be a blessing, man. Thanks for doing this. We need as many social media forums that we can get out, as many positive messages we can get out to keep it energized for the Lord and empowering men to become better men, bro. So I'm blessed and honored to be here, man. Really?

Speaker B: Yes, yes. We just talked before the show that, uh, Ken Johnson is a thermostat. When he comes in the room, he cranks it up just a notch. That's the, you know, always the message, always praising the kingdom and encouraging people. So thanks for being on the show, Ken. Really appreciate it.

Speaker A: Amen, bro. I'm humbled. Really am.

Speaker B: Well, guys, I got a. Just a special intro for Mr. Ken Johnson because he. He wears a lot of hats and, uh, he's a man. He has basically spent his last. Basically his whole life just pouring into other people. He's been in locker rooms as a chaplain with the Colts. We're just going to talk about 30 years.

Speaker A: 30 years. See that jersey back there? That's 30 years of service.

Speaker B: That's right. So we're going to talk a little bit of football and his experience there. Living rooms, prisons, pulpits. Uh, he's been a recording artist, um, a husband for 42 years, father to three, grandfather of six. Uh, he has a ministry called Emerging Eagles, Is, uh, dedicated to raising up the next generation of godly leaders. Um, and he's been in ministry for. For several years now. Uh, we're just going to dive into some of this, is how to lead your family, how to lead as a man of God, uh, how to lead teams. Uh, we're going to dive into some of that today. So thanks again. Amen for being here.

Speaker A: Amen.

Speaker B: But, uh, Ken, I want to start off with this Man m. Where you have worn many hats. Husband, father. Ah, chaplain, cop, Pastor speaker. Um, I'm just going to start off with this. You're, I think, in your 60s now, 64.

Speaker A: Be 65 this year, baby.

Speaker B: 64. 65. So you talk about this kind of this quarter of your life, this season of your life, and if, uh, you could take yourself back to. To some of my listeners are 30 years old, what would you. What would you want to tell yourself?

Speaker A: Oh, boy. You will start with deep, deep, deep questions. Oh, man. Dream big, start small, and go deep. Do everything in your life through covenant and contractual relationships. I wish I had known early on to slow down and get to know people by trusting and verifying them before I go deep with them. And so to slow down with people. And what I mean by covenant is that covenant is simply, who are you? What are you going to do? What do you say? What do you mean when you say, uh, it's almost like, what do you stand for? One of my, um, young men I'm pouring my life into, Jamar Wright, asked me when we started going deep together, he asked me, pastor Ken, what can I expect from you? And I was like, well, initially, I'm thinking, do you want money? Do you want time? He's like, no, what can I expect from you? And what I heard in that is, you can expect there will be a man of integrity, a man of character, a man of principle. I'm going to disappoint you. I'm not going to be perfect. I'm going to fall forward in life. You're going to see me get angry, upset. You'll see me be joyful. And as you get to know me, you're going to know that, you know, uh, will you love me when you don't agree with me? Can you stay with me? And so I understand that sometimes people will come into my life for a reason. A season of forever. Which one of you determines how long you stay? So I, uh, wish someone had told me to slow down with people and really get to know them. And that my greatest accomplishment, hands down, is the relationships that I've kept over decades, those forever people in my life that I've established real covenant relationships with. And out of my covenant, I write contractual agreements. Because who you are will now determine, uh, what we're going to do together and what we. What you say you would do. That's what we write down based on who we are. And so slow down and really enjoy the moment. Joyo Today, live in your Today plan for your tomorrow but don't, don't go by so fast that you forget to smile at the person in the line. You begin to, uh, say hi to that cash register person in the bank or the, you know, the grocery store. The person that's coming out of the store, old lady who needs some help. Just stop. Just slow down. Don't be in such a hurry. Enjoy. Be where your feet are at, man. I'm learning. I just would be where my feet were at with the people. I would linger and, and, and, and, and. Invest your life into people, man. Boy. Because time is one thing you can never get back. So once you spend it, spend it wisely.

Speaker B: No, I love that, I love that I use this kind uh, of the term that uh, you know, how can we be m more relational instead of transactional? I think a lot of men, especially men in my circles, business guys. So a lot of people listen to this. They're, they're business guys and we can be extremely transactional. We're like, hey, what am I going to, how am I going to benefit from you? What are you going to do for me? The only reason why I'm here is, is some sort of benefit, uh, you know, a sale or whatever that we can just become very traction, very transactional with all of our relationships.

Speaker A: You know, this brings back to just a huge story when I think about, you know, I've spoken all over the country and all over the world, millions of people. And that's not an exaggeration. It's really good. The platform the coach gave me m many things and so I became very performance based oriented, you know, platform based. Get on the stage, move the crowd, make them cry, make them clap, make them clap, you know, make them, you know, just move them, you know, because as a speaker you want to move people to action and move people to, you know, to be something. And so when you come off the stage sometimes it's almost like, you know, you sign books, you become this celebrity dude and then, you know, you don't get to go out to lunch and go, go deep with people. And so, you know, I, some of my relationship became very superficial and performance based ministry became, uh, I become somewhat isolated because you blow in, blow up and blow out so often you can't go very deep. You there to perform. They don't want a deep relationship. And so, uh, in my 50s, I started getting in this place where I'm thinking, wow, is this all this is performance based? And I started reading a book. Plan A, there is no plan B. And it was about how we get off the stage and go deep with people. How to go deep. Patrick Marley is a good friend of mine, and that's why I got that terminology. Dream big, start small, and go deep. And I was remember going to a coach game and they had this guy who won this Make a Wish program. Uh, and, uh, you know, he's sitting next to me, and his face is full of pus. Pus is coming out of his face. And I'm thinking, this guy is gross. And, you know, I wanted to read the book and I wasn't trying to talk to nobody, man. I'm just on the plane. I'm like, I've been talking all week and talking. I don't want to talk. I just want to get some rest, read my book. And this guy next to me with pus coming out his face. What do you do? Well, I'm the chaplain of the team. Oh, Wim, pray for me. He says, I need you to forgive me because I have stage four cancer and I won this trip on Make a Wish. And uh, uh, plus his reaction to the chemo. And bro, I felt this big. Oh, man, I felt this big, bro. And man, his wife was sitting next to him and she was telling him to leave me alone. And I was like, I'm reading this book, plan A, get off the stage. So I started, you know, talking to the guy. We talk all the way to, you know, to where we land. We get off the plane, man, we have a wonderful conversation. And after the game, we win the game. We, we're back on the plane. He's sitting next to me, so we're coming back, and he says, man, I, I, I'm scared. You know, I don't know if I'm gonna live or die. Can you pray for me? And so, you know, of course, of course. You know, I pray and, you know, I pray the sinner's prayer with him and, you know, to ask him to accept Lord and Savior. And if he die, well, he's going to be in security. So I ministered to him and his wife all the way back. And they get back and I put him on my morning prayer list. I sent a prayer list out every day to about two or 300 people. And he was on that list. And so for the raining of the season, he would text me when I'm standing on the sideline. And about two, about two or three weeks after the season, he stopped responding to my text messages. M m. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I didn't want to know I like you, though. I wonder, but I didn't really want to know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So about a week, probably about a month or so after that, I'm doing a men's conference at. At a church, Lakeview, uh, church. And I have my merchandise table in the back, and this little old lady, man, little black lady, is sitting at the back of the table. And I'm thinking, okay, who is this little lady? Because, hey, uh, no men are in there. So afterwards, you know, everybody's, you know, kind of left. And she says, you know, Pastor Ken, you know, uh, I'm Charles's mom. She said, when you met Charles on that plane, when he came back, all he ever talked about was, man, this pastor, the chaplain of the coach. And he went to the game, and you text him from the game, and, man, and he says, and when you prayed that prayer with him, he said he accepted Jesus as his savior. I was trying to get him to accept Jesus as his savior for his entire life. And you led him to Christ on that plane. And when he came back, he told all his friends. He called all his friends and told them they need to pray that prayer because he want to be with him in heaven. He said, and we're giving a celebration, and some of them people want to meet you. And I'm like, okay, dude. Like, you can't make this up if you try, bro. Wow. And so I go meet about 50 people came up to me and say, man, all he talked about was that trip and you leading him to Christ. And in the last year, the prayers. He said those prayers that you sent him, and they were showing me the prayers, bro. He was sending them the prayers I would send him every m. Morning.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And it just hit me so hard, bro, about, you can do all the ministry in the world from the stage, but it's when you come off the stage and you really linger with people and you go deep with them, bro, that you really make an impact, man. And so from that time until now, you know, I started this little bitty church, man. And I, uh, came off the road. I let go of probably 250 events, and I said, I want to go deep with people, man. So I started this little church in the city on a Sunday, man. We may have 20 people. On a good Sunday, we may have 20 people. We started. We had, like, 65, 70 people. We got up to, like, 260. Covid hit us, decimated the church. But I kept going deep, and, man, I got deep relationships with some of these people, man.

Speaker B: Wow. Wow.

Speaker A: Deep, deep, man.

Speaker B: That's, that's a, that's such an amazing story. God just shows up in so many, uh, just crazy ways on that airplane. Um, and I want to talk about that before we dive into some of the other, you know, stories that you got and, and kind of being a chaplain of the coast. I want to talk about that a little bit. But how m. Do you know who to go deep with? You mentioned before the show, um, you saw, you know, you're in your season of life right now, in your 60s, and you said, hey, that the older you get, the more people want, uh, more of your time. They want more of a piece of you. So now you got different people calling you for different, for different things. And uh, and to be honest, you can only go deep with, you know, a select number of people. So on your list or your, um, you know, criteria, like, you know, how do you know who, who you want to go deep with? And what does that kind of look like?

Speaker A: Wow, bro, you, you do have you got some really great questions, bro. You know, off of my dome and in my brain, is that that process of show up for people who show up for you and feed people who are feeding you and always look for win win scenarios. You got givers and takers. You got people coming to your life, like I said, for a reason and a season forever. And how, you know, the people forever people in every season of your life, winter, spring, summer and fall, them people are there. The takers come when it's warm and sunny and fuzzy and they can take from you. The instant that they have to sacrifice and give to you, they gone. They're gone. They disqualify themselves, bro. You don't have to disqualify.

Speaker B: Once the winter comes and it gets cold, they, yeah, it's not comfy.

Speaker A: People who don't want to invest in you, they fall away. But forever people, bro, when you turn around and you, you going through pain, you ain't got to worry about them.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: They're there. And who are you that for? Well, see, when you go deep with people, you get, you get to know them. And it takes time, bro. It takes, you know, it takes five to seven years to get to know your wife. If you live with her five to seven years.

Speaker B: And that's when she just starts. And that's when she just starts to shift a little bit, you know.

Speaker A: And this is about. You live with, you live with, talk with all the five to seven years. What about these relationships, man? There are so many books written on relationship equity and all these processes of how you go deep with people. The only thing will tell, bro, is time, man. Yeah, time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I want to move on. Talking about your book, the Secret we're within this book is amazing. I'll just say it up front. I could not put it down. Thank you for sending me a copy. And I get sent copies and I have just a, uh, catalog of books that I'm trying to get through. And so I didn't know if I would have time for this. And I started like the first chapter and I had like three other books I'm reading. But then I just, I just came back to this, like for the course of a week. And that doesn't happen where I just don't put a book down. And this was just something that definitely wanted to have you on talk about it because I think everyone needs to read this, especially men. It really speaks to the heart of the matter. And it's an allegory, which is also not a book I would normally read. But it's one of those things that I think that it just tells such a powerful story without breaking it down. Chapter, verse, and like diving into all the nitty gritty, it just tells a powerful story that so many people can relate to.

Speaker B: Purchase the Secret War within on Amazon, leave a review and share a snippet of your experience with us, uh, through email or text. To show our gratitude, we'll send you a special gift. Just include your name and address in your message. I look forward to hearing from you. So it's, it's funny that you, uh, know you're talking about this. I talk in my group, um, about. Because I try to, you know, force them. Not force, but I say, you know, do some one on one times. Like, you know, we get together with our groups. We're all together sometimes, but sometimes to go deep. It's that one on one connection. So, uh, each month I say, hey, you go, you know, I switched up. You go one on one with this guy. You go one on one, this guy. Just to, just to help, you know, nurture that relationship. And I always say this like, you be the one to pursue. What would you say? Like, you know, do you feel like you're the one? Because I even think about my own life. So like, I, I don't.

Speaker A: I believe it. I believe in divine intersections. I really do. Like our relationship, how I met you was through a divine intersection with someone else.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so when I, um. People come into your life just for a reason. I got people coming to my life to teach Me a certain lesson, a reason. It could be as simply, hey man, an introduction to someone else. Uh, the season would be, you know, that they were just here for me to learn a lesson or get a contact or I got people that come in my web design. I've had five different web designers. The reason was to get there and get. And get started, get paid. And they left and m. So, so there were different for different people in your life. And so for me, you know, ultimately you, you really just have to trust God and, and before you can be befriended, are you friendly? Are you one that will show up for other people? Because reciprocity is real.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so meaningful relationships go through the effort. It takes work, it takes commitment. And you know, m. My, one of my best friends, uh, we play, we pray every Thursday together is Clark Kellogg. And when I came here 35 years ago, Clark Kellogg was my host. He was just got from the Pacers in 1990, like 89 90. He was going through rehab and so he was my host. Well, for all those years we've been Covenant prayer partners. We've been, we've been, we go, we've gone deep. I've did his, I, um, did his daughter's wedding. You know, he'd done video content for me. All the things that we're doing from an endorsement perspective. He helps support us financially and we are Covenant brothers.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And we've gone deep and so we've been forever, you know. And so I got guys who came in, I got a music producer. I met Bill Gaither through the Pacer. Singing at a Pacer game.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Bill Gates came into my life and help me produce my M CD and help introduce me to, you know, to this, that world of music. And he was in and out for a season. He had a reason and a season was to introduce me to this world. We ain't boys. We don't hang out. I don't pray with him every day. If I see him, I saw him at a breath. Hey, Ken, good to see you, bro. But we ain't boys. We like hang out. He's a brother and he came into my life for a specific reason and a season. But he's not forever. Time will tell that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so, you know, I got guys. M the brother who led me to the Lord in, in college named Alvin Simpkins. Alvin came by every Sunday. Every Sunday for a year and about a year and a half. Bird they come. You going to church, man? Leave me alone. I was out partying. I got, I was stuck on Stupid. You know, I wanted to be a pretty boy gigolo and you know, I got saved, man. I come from the hood, you know, my mom was a prostitute, my dad was a heroin addict, you know. You know, I was a straight out thug, but just a football thug. And so I was doing, I was living in the world, dancing as a melody dancer on the weekends, smoking dope, partying, wanted to be a gigolo. Every week this dude come by. Bird, you going to church, man? No, I'm not going to church. Every 52 weeks. 50. And I remember going to an FCA camp, transforming my life. The fast story. And we dedicating my life to Christ. I accepted Christ at 13, but I wasn't discipled. My uncle was a pimp pushing a preacher and lived in apocrypha. So I lived that kind of Christianity that was not really faith based, it was more religious based.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so when I rededicated my life to Christ through fca, I was, I was saying, I'm gonna go all in. And so I said, I'm gonna shock this brother and when he come, I'm gonna be ready, man. He knocks on the bird, you going to church? I came out. He said, I knew you'd come eventually, you know. Today, this brother is what covers, he covers our ministry. His name is Alvin Kinsel out of Denver, uh, Colorado, Emanuel Christian Center. He covers our ministry. He licensed and ordained us. He's been a part of my, my covering for 45 years, bro. Wow. Uh, 45 years. Covenant Brothers. Covenant, man. We covered. That's, we've going way deep, man.

Speaker B: Man, so those are some of these

Speaker A: relationships, you think, Man, I'm a rich man, bro.

Speaker B: Man, he just keeps showing up. He just, you know.

Speaker A: Oh, bro, when I say I'm a miracle, I, I sometimes I can't believe my stuff. I can't. I mean, when I look back thinking, boy, God is all I need to praise. God really is a good memory, bro.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's good. That's true. I would just, man, uh, that's awesome. Well, I wanna, I wanna dig into. So you were a chaplain of the Colts? 30 years.

Speaker A: Um, yes.

Speaker B: And uh, and I want, obviously in that type of environment, I'm sure masculinity, leadership, uh, just, you know, super huge, guys. Uh, just I'm sure the mask, you know, just the, the manliness, the masculinity in that type of environment. I want to talk about that. Just like, how did, how did, can you talk about like, how did that shape your view? A little bit of Of. Of take us into maybe the locker room. The masculine. The leadership or the discipleship that you're pouring into these guys. And some of these guys probably accepted. Some of these guys probably didn't. Didn't want that. And they have everything that the world can offer them. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. My m. I think my masculinity, I think, was shaped through, uh, the militaries. I was in the ROTC and then joined the militaries as a, you know, and. And the reserves and then police, uh, officer. Being a police officer and. And, you know, the football kind of made me this competitor, uh, I think police officer and military kind of made me sacrificial servitude of laying my life on the line. So when I showed up in the locker room with what I would entitle and basically entitled individuals who are gifted, but quite frankly, uh, don't know much about life because athletics teaches you a microcosm of what life really is. So in that world, as a chaplain to athletes, you know, it can be somewhat, very superficial. It's performance based. A lot of times, it's your whole success is predicated upon your performance, your capability to perform. And once you can't perform, then you don't have value in that world because your body is your instrument. It's your tool. And then the perception of perceived value in that world is so fleeting because, you know, you're here today and gone today in a lot of instances. And so in that world, you first are enamored that, man, I'm in lockdown with all these pros. And then you figure out, dude, he's just another dude. Yeah, he's just another dude that got to go home to his family that's scared to death he gonna get cut. You know, that's negotiated his contract. And then when the inevitability of that world hits you, injuries, you get cut. The reality of, wow, this is such a temporal world, it's so temporary, bro. And so, you know, uh, I would tell people, you know, I'm the chaplain of the coach. They go, whoa. And I say, what does that mean? All they hear is perceived value and name recognition. Chaplain and coach.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Now when they're winning, when we were winning, oh, my God. Oh, you're the best thing since sliced bread I get. People say, man, you must really be praying. It's like you're not praying enough. I'm thinking you actually think I got the power to convince God that who deserves to win on both teams? They are Christians on both teams.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so you think I say, I wish I had that kind of power. I would never have no issue, because it's all an illusion of power. And so one of my next books that I'm writing, the Good, the Bad and the ugly behind the NFL athletics, 92% of people are influenced through athletics because it's a galvanizer. People escape into the reality of competition.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But you know, the Pacer game, you know, you had the same people, just like with Jesus, the same people that were yelling, hosanna, we gonna make it, man. Look at Jesus, he's come. The same people yell, they lost, they lost, man. Look at them. They, they, they, you. Now, if they'd have won, guess what they'd have been saying? We won. Uh, oh my God. Because everybody want to be perceived and associated with the winner.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so that's why if your success is predicated upon the scoreboard, you gonna have a fleeting reality because it's up and down. Coach Dungey really was good at making sure that the main thing remained the main thing. He was one of the few coaches that came into that world and say, you know, your family and your faith comes first. Then it's your profession, which now happens simply to be football. And I'm not going to call any names, but I can, I, uh, can test you that many people had that kind of warrior mentality that, that your profession is what feeds you and pays you there your identity is in, ah, what you do. And so you are a football player that comes first. It comes before the family. It becomes before in that real. And they will tell you, hey, it's family first. Until a game is here that we need to go to M. You got guys that my wife is having a baby and it's a game. You got coaches saying, go with the family. And you got coaches that saying, no, you show up for work, that baby gonna be there.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so when you get a man that says family, first faith, family, then football, and he backs it up in his actions, you, those are the things, you know, Coach Dungey is probably my number one role model when it comes to coaches. He and Tom Landry, I travel with Tom Landry, singing with him, you know, with FCA early on in the 80s and in the 90s, I was singing with Tom Landry. And these men, they used their platform to really glorify Christ and glorify God. And so they kept the main thing, the main thing. This is my job. I remember, you know, Tony Dungy telling us a story in reference to, you know, when, um, Joe Gibbs won the Super Bowl. And they say, man, this has to be the greatest day of your life. He said, no, no, no. This ain't even the second greatest, greatest day of my life. When I married my queen, my. My man, I looked at this beautiful woman. I said, she's accepted me. And I. Man. He said, well, it has to be the second. Oh, no, it ain't even the second. He said, when I had my baby, when I had my son and my daughters, man, to see myself go on in them, that was great. He said, before you. Before you go on and say it has. He said, this don't even rank in the top 10 of experiences in my life. Because, uh, if it's such a great game, the game of all games, why are they gonna play it again next year, right? Put it in perspective, bro.

Speaker B: That's true.

Speaker A: It put it in perspective. Yes, we do admire. And the chaplain of the coach, the emeritus chaplain. It gets a sense of, whoa. Until I ask him, um, what you want for. What do you want? Like, really, what are you worrying for? Are you waring? Because hands down, bro, the greatest accomplishment in my life, hands down, married to the Same woman for 40, going on 43 years, you won't talk about perseverance.

Speaker B: Amen.

Speaker A: You won't talk about sacrifice, giving up, uh, denying yourself. I mean, bro. Oh, man, the gambit of emotions with having, bro, that. Hands down, that's the greatest accomplishment in my life to date. Hands down. None of them even come close.

Speaker B: That's. That's great. That's awesome. I love that. Well, before we move on, you know, I know you're talking, uh, which I. Which I love, just your feedback just in that locker room, it's like, oh, these guys are just. Just men. I. I actually had the same. What I thought about was that because you're talking about the cult soccer room. And these guys, you know, they got power, they got money, they got fame, and, you know, performance. And I actually had that same feeling when I went and did prison ministry. And I was in prisons with these guys, and I thought the same thing. Like, wow, these guys are just another man.

Speaker A: Amen.

Speaker B: You know, And I could have been into that place, too, right?

Speaker A: You know, man, m. I speak in hundreds of prisons, bro, and, you know, and this makes out wild, but I probably feel the freest and the most liberated when I'm in prisons, because I got men who are broken with no pretenses. Some of the hardest places to minister are men who think they got it all together. Yeah, these businessmen had their money and they suits and they car, and they got all their stuff and all this stuff. Give them their identity until you strip all that stuff away, Strip the car, strip the stuff away. And what are you left with? Little men with adolescent mentality still trying

Speaker B: to impress them about, Right? Yeah. Wow, man, that's, uh, that's good. Well, speaking. Speaking about that, uh, we'll. I have a couple of questions at the end. Back to the Colts. But speaking about that, you obviously, uh, father, grandfather, uh, great grandfather, too.

Speaker A: I'm a great granddad.

Speaker B: Okay. You must have had some kids. Young, um, 20. Um, I'm part of a couple, ah. Of ministries or, uh, you know, that I'm just a part of. And I just. I. I support. Um, you know, one of them's called dad Camp. Another one called. It's called Man Up. He Came and Spoke. But anyways, a lot of both of them are about fathers. And, uh. Um, can you talk to us about, you know, just this role of fatherhood? Our culture, I feel like, has this war on fatherhood. And it's just, you know, you talked about being a husband was. Was most difficult. I probably raised my hand as being a father and raising up these kids, um, is where sometimes I feel like the biggest failure, right? I'm like, oh, man, I just can't, bro.

Speaker A: You hit me hard in my heart because, you know, I have a. I have a son in prison, and, man, it almost killed me. I felt like a failure, like my. Not my son. You know, I have a daughter that married a man and then got divorced and married a woman. And I'm like, what, man? I'm like, what?

Speaker B: What?

Speaker A: And. And I. And I. And. And I thought. And I. And my hope and my prayer is that I did it right. I stayed married. I, uh, showed up. I was faithful. I broke the cycle of poverty, and I found. I broke. And as a father for you men who are out there, that's doing your best. We. I'm learning that kids like Jesus, like God's kids, have free will. M. And you can. You can show up, you can be there. And I want to give those fathers out there a break who was dealing with some of the stuff I was dealing with, thinking I wasn't good enough. If I had just been better, been more. Give yourself a break. While at the same time, we men, we must stand in the gap. So when I. When my son went to prison, I went all in to love him. And my son in prison now has discipled over 2,500 individuals. Wow. He's a Pastor in church, in. Pastor in prison. He's using his life on mission. And he said, pops, it wasn't you. I. I chose my free will over what the will I knew you have for me. And I reap the consequences of my choices. My daughter, we have a amazing relationship now. For the last two years, we've gone deep. It was her I felt. I lost a daughter, and what I. I didn't lose a daughter. Uh, my daughter can never be lost to me. My daughter will always be. I will always be her father. And I will love her. Adrian James said something to me once, and. And I never will forget it because he, you know, Edgewood was kind of wild out there. He said, pastor, he said, I don't come to chapel all the time, but can you come bless our Friday. Our, uh, Friday dinner? Because bad kids need the Lord too. And we just need to show up, bro. Keep showing up. Uh, keep showing up if you're broken. I never knew the love of a father. I never met my biological father. I had a stepdad that was. Beat my mom's pimp up and took my mom name is Big Lou from the pimp. And 25 years after they had been together, I led him to the Lord and, uh, married him and my mom after they'd been together for 25 years. And they stayed together till they died.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And they stayed together about another. About 15 years. And, bro, we. We. We men. Well, sometimes we. We. We take. We think we are God. We. We are relying on God. So my hope and prayers, when I work with guys like you, when I work with the men that I believe God is calling us to work with, I want to work with men who work with men to be just better men. If you are better men, you. You're going to get some things right as a father. You're going to get some things right as a. As a. As a husband. You don't get some things wrong. You're going to be in your humanity. And so, you know, this. This thing has, uh. At 35, you probably wouldn't heard this coming from me like this, because I was at. My kids gonna be this. You raise them the way that they should go, and they won't be the part, right? Bro, Man, your kids, bro, they will. They will be kids. They will be just like God's kids. When my son went to prison, one of my buddies came and says, you know, Pastor Ken, God, kids turned out wrong, you know, and parents have this crazy mentality when their kids turn out okay. They take far too much Credit. And when they turn out bad, they take far too much credit. There comes a time that at every child's life, when they become an adult, they have free will. And some of us, some of you men who may be listening to this may be dealing with some kids who are living adversely to the way you, you, you, you raised them. Mhm. Or you expected them to be. And you have to give them grace like God gave you grace. Because truth be told, all of us don't have the same thing. But all of us got something.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker A: And then in the, in the recesses of our heart that we, we even our best works are still like filthy rags in the comparisons of a mighty awesome God. And so we as fathers, we gotta show up and love. You know, the prodigal son story is not about the prodigal son. It's about the. It's this parable of a father and his two sons.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker A: And those, that those sons. One was there because I'm the elder brother sometime too. Where. How dare you give him this. I've been here and not rejoicing that the lost one came home.

Speaker B: It's funny how you go from the lost son to the older brother.

Speaker A: Oh man.

Speaker B: Many times.

Speaker A: Oh bro, oh bro. Because listen, I'm the lost son. I'm the older brother. That parable relates to every man that you will meet. Some of us are selfish. Some of us are self righteous. Some of us of squanders. Some of us are faithful. Some of us do show up. And some of us got to remember to be servants.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We're here to serve. When Jesus told the servants, hey, when, when, when, when the father told the servants, go get ready. The servants didn't say is he worthy? Is he? This is he. They did what the, what the father said.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: We as fathers, we got to show up and love when it's hard. Love when they disappoint us. Love and restore them. Our babies can always come home.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love always come, always come home, bro.

Speaker B: I love that. It's uh, you know, when you talk about your story, I just keep hearing the, you know, the word of just be persistent. Just persistent man coming over and inviting you to church every single day, every single week, uh, for your son or daughter making certain choices and many men like I've, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna give up. But you, you still showed up and pers. Pursued and persistent. Even though it was hard. I'm sure like yeah.

Speaker A: Oh, oh, no, no doubt. When My daughter, when she.

Speaker B: When she.

Speaker A: She. She got married, she knew I wouldn't come, right? Don't get. Don't get it. Have I compromised what I feel my values are? Oh, God, no.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: For a matter of fact, I'm dogmatic. I'm like the. Caleb. I'm like, surely we can do this. We can. You can come back home. I believe you. To come home like you. No, that's not what you meant to be. And so she asked me to come bless her house. Her. Her and her partner's house. And so my first granddaughter's over there and, you know, through her marriage. First marriage. And I'm thinking, okay, I ain't gonna bless that mess. So one of my overseers said, hey, you a hypocrite, Johnson. I'm like, what you mean? He said, you. Did you go to prison and pray for your son? He said, yeah. He said it wasn't the rapists and robbers and murderers and homosexual. And you was in there ministering to them. He said, when you're a cop, then you go undercover, and then you go undercover and. And to simulate to get in. He said, now, let me get this right. Your daughter is asking her father, Pastor Ken, to come and bless her house, and you won't go there because she's living in such a way. Hold up.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker A: You're called to the chiefs and a goat, and your daughter is asking Pastor Ken to come over her house. You ain't going to bless the mess. You're going to bless their house.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Go over there and invoke the Holy Spirit in there. Go over there and love them. Go over there and show them the love of Jesus. Go over there and hug them and pray for them and kiss them. Go over there and love them to life, man. I went over there in brokenness and humility. My granddaughter followed me around like a little puppy. They just. They just now had. They had Miles. This is Miles, my. My latest grandson.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Uh, they. They took my. Took my daughter's egg and put it in her. Her. Her. Her partner's, uh, womb, and she carried it to term. And Miles came out. No, they. They thought papa not gonna come to the hot. Not only did I go to the hospital, I went and bless Miles. I went and grabbed Miles and. And I say, miles, you're going to be the deliverance of your family. You're going to be the. The. The process by which they come to the Lord and reconcile the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit. Use this, bro. You can't love people if you don't show up.

Speaker B: That's right. That's right, man.

Speaker A: Bro, I showed up and I listen. Have I stopped being pastor Ken?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Do they know I'm gonna pray and preach? Well, I listen.

Speaker B: He.

Speaker A: Here you go. This is Pops. I'm gonna bless the house. I'm going in with the word of God every single time, trying to get them to come to church. I'm trying to get them to come on my podcast to say how, uh, how do we love you to life? And then what's like, how do we love you to life in Christ? Because I got a guy that we, that's a part of our church who's, who's ex homosexual. And I, I, I didn't want him in the church. And he, and now we, we ordained him, license him. And he has a ministry going to restore other broken homosexual men. And he was like, pastor, can you go with me? I. My initial reaction was, I ain't going to bless that mess. I don't care. I don't want. Bro, you call to love them brothers. You ain't got to be gay to, to minister to. No, no. They need a strong man.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, to show up and be who he is and, and let them know I'm not comfortable doing this. But not my will, but your will be done. Lord, they need a man. And I ain't going to compromise. If you, if you act effeminate, bro, stop. Men don't act like that. That's who I, that you, you want me to come, right? If you want me to come, don't get offended when I show up.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: All of me, this wild, radical bro, man up. Uh, stop. You know, stop standing like that. That's not. Men don't stand like that. So, so, so. And I may be offensive to somebody. They may. Because I don't conform to the pattern of the world.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I'm trying to do what God's called me to do.

Speaker B: M. Wow. So good. So good. Pastor Ken. Hey. I know we're, uh, we're, we're rolling running. We're running strong. We're going to finish strong, too. And that's what just brings you to this next question. You know, one of the things that I think about you is, is just this again, season quarter of your life, finishing strong. Um, you know, you said, uh, you were speaking all over the country. I know you talked about going to Promise Keepers a little bit. You were doing, uh, you know, performance based ministry on stage. Uh, this next quarter, you're going deep with people. You got a podcast coming Out I want to talk about because again most men um, reach a certain season, uh, 60s, 65 and they start to check out maybe or go uh, collect seashells, I don't know, play some more golf, something like that. But I want to talk about you because you seem, you know, super fired up. You're still going on mission. You probably more fired up than you ever have been. Can you talk about this next season of life?

Speaker A: Oh, these next five years from 65 to 70 men I'm going to team. I'm teaming with collaborative partnership with a guy named Bill Moore from Heart of a Man. Uh, I'm writing a ah, whole curriculum uh, that's dealing with restoring men's spirit, mind and body. It's called the City of Refuge, the Wings of Hope center where we're going to take men and go deep with them with their spirit, minds and their bodies. And so Bill is going to deal with some of the recreational aspects of it, the psychological process of it, the philanthropy part of it about investments and strategies and occupations. I wish someone would have gotten to me in my 30s to be more entrepreneurial in my thinking. I wish someone had told me that I can create a Johnny the job. And the job was not just to take tithe and offerings and missions, which is wonderful. I've lived on the generosity of people for decades. But I uh, now these new models of philanthropy in ministry. I know you have a business and you have the capacity of real estate development and so we're going to be able to be able to train men to do that. Guys coming out of prison, instead of giving a man a fish, let's give these brothers some fishing poles.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Let's give them some tools. Let's give them, you know, a trade,

Speaker B: make him some tales.

Speaker A: Let's give them some actual capacity and bro and probably the big one, uh, I'm, I'm a focus on my boo. My wife, man, she'll be 70, she's five years older than me. She'll be 70 this November.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And I spent so much time cheating her with m ministry and the coach and out and speaking and, and, and and she said uh, she just weathered with me and I just want to make sure that I spend some time with my boo and my grandkids and my great grand. I'm saying no to a lot of stuff right now. No, uh, I had a guy say Pastor Ken, you know, I'm um, AG Church. We got 1500 churches and you know, we need to, we need to come in and Motivate our men. I'm like, dude, he said, how many you want? None. None. Listen. And I don't say brag. Uh, none. I know. I don't want that. I've been there. I want to go deep, bro. I want to find guys like you who are doing something. Say M, man, how can I come alongside and come and go deep with your men? How can I set up processes that we can deliver so M to M with emerging eagles when we relaunch, we're going to have processes. That's why we're doing the podcast. I want to do this, the very thing you're doing. I want to go deep with men who are going deep with men. And how do we do this thing better? What curriculum out there? What books should we be reading? Who's servitude? I want to make sure that men are on mission of service. So we got. I'm trying to galvanize as many men. Go do something. Show up at a school and volunteer. Go down to the soup kitchen. Go to your church. Help with the church. Volunteer in your church, volunteer in your community. Get out and do something. Stop sitting around. Uh, playing golf is wonderful. Take guys on golfing trips. Go do this. Do something, man. Use your life while you got a chance, man.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Give back to this world more than you're taking. So for Christmas, we give away bites and toys and we find inner city kids. Grab ministry. You can't do everything, but, man, every brother listening to you can do something.

Speaker B: Amen. Amen. Oh, I love it. I love it. So good. So your podcast is going to be coming out, and I know you told me the name of it. What's the podcast going to be called?

Speaker A: Chop it Up. Chop it Up, Chop it up with Pop J.

Speaker B: All right.

Speaker A: The grandfathers, the grand. The grandfather's great grandfather's voice. We just gonna. We go like this. This energy, having fun, you know, keeping it real. And, you know, I may offend some folks, and that's not my intent, but, you, uh, know, uh, I'm not political. It's not about Republicans. I'm about Jesus, dude. I'm about serving folk and loving all of God's people. And so some people think, well, you know, I'm disqualified because my daughter's gay, or I got a son in prison. Well, Peter was in prison. A whole lot of folks was in prison. And God used some of his best work with people in prison.

Speaker B: I was just thinking, some people say,

Speaker A: well, your daughter's going to hell. Well, you know, that's one aspect of theology that people will look at. So if my daughter's going to hell, well, then many of us ain't got a chance. Because if. If. If David made it in and Moses made it in and a whole lot of these other folks that were. Listen, bro, my. There's hope for my daughter, too. So, you know, I'm not here from a theological debating perspective. I'm just for application. How do we apply love to everybody that we meet, Bro, I love that.

Speaker B: I love that. And I think just a listening audience out there, you know, again, I just want to remind you of just a couple things that, uh, PK has been talking about is, uh, you know, dream big, start small. I love, you know, you. Oh, deep and go deep. Yeah, you. I mean, you came from the big stages. You had that, um, which a lot of us, you know, maybe want, right? Like, oh, the. Maybe the applause, the performance. But now you're going, you know, small circles, small church, going deeper with people, um, which I think, again, and that's what Iron Deep's, you know, doing is like, hey, instead of going wide and casting this wide net and a bunch of campuses and a bunch of mega, mega stuff, just like, hey, how do we. How do we impact, uh, you know, one person at a time? And just, you know, that's what I'm doing. With the Iron Deep group, the, uh, 12 guys I've been walking and persistence. I think, uh, sometimes, again, we're showing up, showing up, showing up. It could be as a husband, it could be as a. As a dad. It could be in our business, we're constantly showing up and feel like we're not getting anywhere. And I still show up, still be persistent.

Speaker A: You know, as you were talking, it dropped in my spirit. I can't remember the Sunday school teacher for Billy Graham, but this Sunday school teacher had, uh, these group about six or seven rambunctious boys. I mean, they were rambunctious, and she galvanized. And he brought another man in. And this man kind of like, helped corral this energy. And can you imagine when they were correct and telling Billy Graham first about Sunday school and leading him to the Lord that they ever imagined he'd be a person that traveled this world with the class? Who are the Sunday school teachers that may not ever be seen, but they planted the seed in the greatness. Who are those Alvin Simpkins bird come to Jack. Yeah, who them guys? You never know about them, Jack. Who are those guys? Who are the guys that, on a plane, sitting next to a guy that's

Speaker B: Got just the boldness that, uh, that he had, too, because most of them are afraid to ask anyone to come to church sometimes.

Speaker A: Who is that person, man? And I got tons of those stories of these. These divine intersections with people that impact your life for eternity.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Awesome. Uh, well, pk, I just got a few questions. Uh, you know, just maybe the name, the first thing that comes to m your mind as we wrap up the show here. But, uh, do you have a favorite moment with the Colts?

Speaker A: Oh, hands down, uh, when we beat. When we beat, uh, New England to make it to the Super Bowl. Winning the super bowl, you know, that was icing on the cake. But getting. When we beat New England, man, it was like, oh, my God. And it was like. And I heard in the spirit, this is it. This is it. This is it. And when we were at the Super Bowl, I went on tbn and, you know, I did the TBN show. And I say, man, this what heaven's gonna feel. Because I had dudes that didn't want me on the team hugging me, kissing me. We did it. We did it. There was pandemonium, bro, in the stadium. And then once we won and that frigid, below zero temperature. And we came back, and all them folks were lying in the street, and they were shouting, oh, we love you. I'm thinking that's what heaven's gonna feel like.

Speaker B: I love that. That was. That was. That was amazing. All right, a couple more questions. Uh, you're. You're a singer. Any. What. What's, like, a song, uh, that you just love. Love to sing.

Speaker A: Well, my. My son that I wrote for my kids called who was that? Was he a man that was never there man had no time to share man could always provide but never took our hands to God A man gave love to others but never to our sister and brother when life was over and journeys through which one would they say of you who was dad?

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: He was a man that was always there. A man who always showed he cared. A man who always had a word from God but never spared his loving rod. A man who loved his children, his wife, and loved his children by the fruit of his life when life is over and journeys through which one would they say of you who was dead? Wow. Hands down. I saw that Promise Keeper, man.

Speaker B: Bro, Is that on, uh, that online anywhere?

Speaker A: Uh, you could probably get it. My son kind of put it out there. I got.

Speaker B: Okay, so I'm gonna look it up.

Speaker A: It's on this CD right here. Solid rock, you know? Who was that? Who was that? One of my favorite songs, bro.

Speaker B: Well, if you guys are listening out there and you still buy CDs, you know, we can get that CD.

Speaker A: Amen, my son. Put it on this spider, bro. Listen, I honestly, I. I kind of like.

Speaker B: That's a great.

Speaker A: I don't even follow no more.

Speaker B: That's a great.

Speaker A: I probably need to. I probably need to turn that stuff back on again, you know, all that stuff, man.

Speaker C: Awesome.

Speaker B: Ah, awesome. All right, what's. Last question. Um, what's something your grandkids do that reminds you just of God's joy?

Speaker A: Oh, man.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: Eat

Speaker B: everything.

Speaker A: They love you. I love. I love, uh, barbecuing and smoking. I mean, I consider myself a grill master. And they love coming Papa's Barbecue. And they get all over their face, man, the juice. And man, hey, Papa is so good. And it's a taste. And see that the Lord is good.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And his faithfulness and do it forever, baby. When I see him eat, it's just how good Papa's love is.

Speaker B: Amen. Amen. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, uh, pk. Really appreciate it. I want to give you this opportunity to. I know you have, um, Immersion Eagles, your, uh, ministry, um, you have the podcast coming out, but, uh, any, any best place for someone to just get more information about that.

Speaker A: Yes. Emergingeagles.org if you just look up on my website and it's. It's under reconstruction, but there's some ways that we can give to some of the benevolency stuff. I help inner city kids all over. Mom, single moms. We help refugee Africans coming from Africa. I work with a guy named David Bates. I live to give. I live to serve people.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And, uh, we got. We gotta. And pray. I. I do ask for prayer. I'm doing this thing called Chop it up on the July 28th at um, this ministry call straight up. And I'm bringing fathers and the children. I was just going to do sons, but one of the guys that work with us with their daughters and I'm bringing them and we're going to chop it up. We're just going to have conversations about what I know about life, what I know about God, what I wish someone had told me. And we're just going to transfer information, give homework assignments to those families to go out and how to pray for your mom and pray for your dad, how to pray for each other, how to pray for your community. We're just going to give some practical tips on how to go deep with one another. So that's going to be on the, uh, the 28th. And so if you go to my website, KenJohnson uh.org some of that information may be on there. Or if not, you know, you can reach out to me at, uh, you know, indiegol4t.net indiegogo4@atd.net and I'll be more than happy to send you any kind of information that, that, uh, about what we got going on. And if I could serve you in any way. Lord, I pray. I pray for my brother. I pray God that this will be used as a tool to God, really galvanize the hearts of men we love. We love. We love. We love you, Father. And may that love over Father permeate itself in those of us, God, who really want to give honor you as our father. So thank you for brag. I thank you for my brother and God with you, what you're doing in this ministry. As iron sharpens iron man and one man sharpens another, in Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you again, Pastor, uh, Ken. I really appreciate it. And, uh, guys, this is a wrap with the Iron D podcast. Check out our show notes on our YouTube and our website, irondeep.com we'll see you guys next time.

Speaker A: Go to irondeep.com and check out other resources we have to help you on your journey. Journey. We'd love to connect with you. As iron sharpens iron friends. Sharpen friends.