LESS HASSLE - MORE PROFIT | Increase Passive Income | 1031 Exchange & DSTs | Ben Carmona

Speaker A: The, uh, rules, uh, don't work, who did do well, and you go back and go, okay, well, the guys that did well were the big boys, right, the institutions. And you go, okay, well, if they did well, what did they do that I did well? They invested a significant part of their portfolio in, um, alternative, uh, investments.

Speaker B: Hey, what's up? This is Brett Snodgrass with another episode of the Iron Deep podcast. Got Benjamin Carmona on the podcast with me today. What's going on, Ben?

Speaker A: Hey, Brett. Good to see you. Great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely, man. I'm, I'm excited for the show. Uh, so Benjamin is from Southern California. Uh, you know, he's been in California for, uh, several years for his life, and he, uh, is a partner at Perch wealth. And, uh, so he's in the investment space for the investment space for the past 20 years. One of the top guys, they talk about. We're going to talk about 1031 exchanges a little bit today, so stay tuned for that. If you're interested in 1031 exchanges or DSTs. I'm not going to say out the whole word, but maybe you're interested in what a DST is. Uh, helping investors basically, um, you know, step out of active real estate, more into passive, purposeful legacy impact. And I think I'm in that stage. I think a lot of our listeners are in that stage too, right now, where starting to be like, man, this active real estate business, I've been doing this 18 years, and yeah, it's a lot. You know, I think it's played a toll on. Played a toll on. On some of us, you know, and, uh, we're like, hey, how can I step more into passive? So, um, excited to dive into that, but, but, uh, Ben, I want to, you know, this is the Iron Deep show. Sometimes, sometimes we ask some deeper questions. But I just want to hear a little bit about your personal story, maybe, maybe your personal story of wealth. Um, kind of take us back and maybe share some experience that maybe shaped how you feel about money freedom. Like what. What started to spur you on with. With this whole strategy and, and wealth.

Speaker A: Uh, sure, I warned you on the front end, Brett. You know, I'm an open book and hopefully this comes out. But look, that's a great question, and I'll just tell you that I was raised. I love my parents. They're amazing. But I was raised, uh, situation where kind of money was the end all, be all. And um, um, um, uh, you know, which is not the case, uh, but it created a lot of challenges, uh, for me. It shaped me to who I am today. Thankfully. Uh, I would say that that type of idolization or philosophy, um, I've shifted away from several years ago. Um, um. But that. But at its core, that's what's driven me to, um. To who I am and where I am to today.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, can I ask you a few questions on that? So you say your home life, you, uh. They idolized or it was kind of the end all.

Speaker C: Be.

Speaker A: All.

Speaker B: Was. Were your parents, uh, Were they rich? Were they wealthy? Or were they.

Speaker A: I would say they're. They're. They're, um, you know, upper mid. Middle class and. And. And very frugal. But, you know, it was. It was all about, um, um, success and performance. Performance and money and doing more and more and more. And I hope my dad doesn't see this, but if he does, like I even had conversations even to this day, who. My dad is an awesome guy. Um, you know, 72 years old. He didn't need to worry about money anymore, but he still is. And I say, dad, why do you care? What does it matter? The money is nothing. You've done great. It should not be anything for you anymore. Um, but it is, um, if that. You know, so it's. It's a. Um. Yeah. I don't know if that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Do you find that maybe that there is no stopping because of just. Just the identity wrapped in that. Like, hey, if I'm not this, then I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what I am or I don't know what to do.

Speaker A: It's part of my identity.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Because. Right. It's part of my identity. I mean. And I don't like that. And I know it and I realize it, but it's still hard to even let go because if you build this identity and you know, uh, whether the. The expressions were the harder that you work, the luckier you get. Ah. Or treat the last. Or treat this paycheck as if it's your last or, you know, a million different things. It was a sense of fear that still sits in me today, um, about needing to be, um. Needing to have money and needing more. And, um. It's unfortunate. Screwed me up in a lot of ways. It still, you know, screws me up

Speaker B: in a lot of ways.

Speaker A: But. But I'm aware of it now and I'm working toward. I. I know it's. It's not something that should be idolized. It's not a. The route to happiness. Um. And that's one of my challenges, uh, today is balancing family and, and work based on where I came from. Right. You're the provider. You are the money maker. You do not fail. Um, that is what you're about. And so I've, I've done that to some extent. Um, but I know that it's, that's not right. And it's about family and being there for your kids and your wife and. And so it's kind of a tough situation.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I work with a lot of men, I hang out a lot of men. We all. It is that, that is a, you know, an ever. Um. Yeah, it just, uh, seems like it's just a battle that we all face that we're all pushing and success and performance. And then like. And sometimes we don't know why we're like, man, why do I keep, why do I keep pushing? Why do I keep. Keep doing? I know, you know, I don't have to right at the end of the day. And uh, but. But something keeps us, uh, keeps us pushing. And I think a lot of it, I think you mentioned is just fear.

Speaker A: That.

Speaker B: It's funny, I was talking to the guy the other day and, uh, he's getting ready to start a business and, and I think I was just talking about like, you know, um, it doesn't matter how much money you have, like, the fear never really goes away because then you're just kind of, uh, scared to lose it all. Like, oh, you think something's going to happen and you're just gonna waste it and just all gonna be gone. I don't know. Like. And for some reason that just sits there sometimes.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Would you.

Speaker A: Yeah, there, there's, there's. There's no, there's no doubt. And part of it I don't know about. For you or everybody has their individual story, but for me, I've always worked really hard and uh, my hard work has translated to success. Success. And that's the one stable. That's the one thing that I know that I can succeed in and feel good about day in and day out. I know if I do this, it translates to X. It's not always that straight shot with family or your kids.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Friends. And, And I know that's a problem for me because it's, it's. It's uh, a. It's a crutch. It's an addiction, if you will. Um, because it is that safe place.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: You got to trust in God. Right. And that's what I want to Is, uh, that believe that you don't need to work yourself to death, um, to, to get this success. You need to be good and, and take care of what's most important and success will be given or come to you. Yeah, um, I have not perfected it by any means, but I believe it. I just need to act on it.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely, uh, agree sometimes. Yeah, it's like it. Sometimes we look at the, it's. It's more of a linear, like, oh, yeah, if I do this, then I can be successful, I can be recognized. I can feel good about myself. But all the relationships, you know, talk about family, the, you know, your wife, your kids, all the relate, your friends, the, the relationships are just messy and it just doesn't. You, you could, you know, you could be the best dad in the world and do all the bullet points and, and do the outline that read all the best dad books and your kids just end up messed up and you're like, exactly right.

Speaker A: Amen.

Speaker B: So. No, man. Well, thanks. Thanks for sharing. Um, so, ah, a lot of our listeners, you know, again, are real estate guys and we're kind of entering in that season. I'm 45, you know, so probably 40s, 50s, uh, 60s listeners. And some of them are getting, yeah, I might maybe call them worn down landlords or tired, active real estate investors, entrepreneurs. Um, and, and that's just, that's just kind of who we're talking to right now. So can you talk to us about maybe some of the strategies? Uh, maybe it's a DST, maybe it's a 1031 exchange. But if I came to you and I'm like, man, I'm, you know, so I'll just tell you personally. Right? Um, so, hey, I'm, you know, hey, I'm Benjamin. I'm Brett Snodgrass and I'm Indianapolis, Indiana. Uh, we do about 15 flips a month. Um, I got a small team of about ten people, um, uh, locally, and then I work with virtual assistants. So I got about 20, 20 people overall, got about 80 rentals. Um, we do a lot of seller financing. So we got, you know, few million dollars there coming in, uh, you know, as far as the notes and stuff. So what should I do? But I'm tired, man. Um, I'm tired.

Speaker A: I would say at 45, first of all, you look great. You don't look tired. And then our, um, our mentors, our parents would, uh, say, give me a break, Brett. Yeah, I'm 70 and I'm still running hard, so I Didn't want to hear about that. But that's true.

Speaker B: It's funny because my dad, he was a high school basketball coach and he retired at 49. And I, I was thinking about that, like, man, dad retired. He retired early. Anyways, that's long story. He didn't retire from working. He still was a teacher. But anyways, go on.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, look, and before I even get into the exchanges, like, um, that's a big thing today. And I'll just, I'll say that our clients are, uh, my clients are, are really baby boomers and seniors, uh, so older demographics that have worked their tails off all their life, that have been through, you know, uh, many different, uh, uh, ups and downs. And now they're at a stage in their life where they are not 45, they're, you know, 65 and older whatnot. Uh, and, and, and they are tired. They're tired of, um, the volatility. They're tired of, um, managing real estate. They don't want one more call from their tenant. Right. Hearing about toilets, tenants, trash, whatever you call them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And they're sitting out there thinking, okay, well, in, uh, 2008, 2009, I thought I didn't know if I was going to ever be able to recover. Right, True. And here we are, how many years later? 15, 16 years later. Everybody, for the most part, is recovered. Real estate's up, Stocks are up, uh, uh, bonds, I know they've gone down, but. But for the most part, relative to that time, they're up and they're thinking, um, um, how do I avoid, uh, 2008, 2009. Right. Because you don't know what you don't know. There's a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. Ah, what can I do to kind of further diversify my portfolio further, you know, increase passive income stream. Um, how do I divest of the real estate that I love and manage for all my life, but I hate right now because it takes my time and energy. And those are the folks that we cater to, broadly speaking. Um, and I'll, I'll tell you just two things, and then I'll, I'll stop, you know, for the. Going back to 2008, 2009, um, if you look at really the, the, the traditional portfolio model was broken, right? The old 60, 40 stocks, bonds, a little bit of cash. Uh, it broke because the folks that did everything right, they followed the rules, they followed the specialists, they still got hammered. M. And then you think, okay, well, if I got hammered and the Coat or the, the, the uh, the rules don't work. You know, who, who, who did do well? And you go back and go okay, well the guys that did well were the big boys, right, the institutions. And you go, okay, well if they did well, what did they do that I didn't do well? They invested a significant part of their portfolio in um, alternative investments. What are alternative investments? Those are anything outside of uh, you know, your traditional stocks, bonds, mutual funds and insurance. Typically they're, you know, a private real estate equity and debt deals, uh, oil and gas, mineral rights. Just a variety of different investments that are not exchange traded. Um, and um, and, and so they, they, they've proved, they prove themselves then they've proved themselves historically. And so that's one of the things that we're big on today, is helping investors diversify. If you're over allocated in stocks and bonds and mutual funds, what else can you do to protect yourself? There are fun. The other thing and then I'll stop is um, we're big at 1031 exchanges. Real briefly for, for the real estate folks know this, but you know, a 1031 exchange, it's been in the IRS or it's been in the tax code for over 100 years. It allows investment property owners to defer paying taxes, uh, on gains associated, uh, with the sale of that property as long as you uh, exchange those proceeds into other investment property you see, like kind property. So you can exchange, you'd sell land and go into a multi family. You could sell multi family and buy a hotel as long as the intent is for investment purposes. And so on the 10th, that's 10:31 exchange. Uh, it's arguably the most powerful tax code out there in terms of wealth building and accumulation and preservation. Um, but then your traditional 1031 exchange, Brett, if you sell one of your 40 or your rentals and you buy another, you know, 40 or 20 or whatever to defer the taxes. That doesn't get you out of being tired every day. Right, right. And you're going into something else you gotta have to manage. Right, Right.

Speaker B: Yeah, you're just going in the one, swapping one out for the other. So yeah, one, uh, hundred percent.

Speaker A: And so what we offer these Delaware statutory trust, which I can dig into and other 1031 eligible vehicles, uh, or structures, uh, provide a turnkey passive 1031 solution. So for the 65, 70, 80, 50, it doesn't matter. Wherever are you in life, um, you could sell your property exchange into one or more other properties that are professionally managed M for you. They pay out monthly income. They send out quarterly, uh, reports. Ah. And performance reports. You'll get your end of your tax, uh, uh, tax statements that you can hand to your CPA 100 passive. And without diving further into the exchange process. You know, the. The IRS has blessed us with the opportunity to defer taxes, but of course it'll make it easy. And so there are rules and guidelines and timelines that you need to follow. So it's not always easy. And I'll stop there. I'll give more of a description if you're interested.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. So The Delaware, the DSTs, I think, you know, a lot of our audience knows 1031 exchange, right? I mean, you. You buy a property or you have a business, you know, and you're going to make a lot of capital gains tax, right? And, uh, you're going to sell it, you're going to have to recapture all this tax, and 1031 can defer that, but you have to buy another asset within a certain amount of time. Typically it's, what, 45 days? Uh, or you have to locate it in 45 days and then close it in, you know, 180 days, something like that. Um, but the DST, like, I, I'm even unfamiliar with a little bit more. So, like, uh, can you talk, can you dive into that? I mean, is this, uh, like a crowdfunding thing or a, A REIT thing or what? What is that?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Kind of. So Delaware statutory trusts were created in the 80s. They weren't set up for 1031 purposes at that time, but it's a. It's a trust or an entity whereby you have one trustee that manages the trust on behalf of up to 499 beneficial owners. So when you apply this trust around real estate, it creates a fractionalized ownership, uh, situation. And in 2004, the IRS came out and actually validated this fractionalized ownership structure as real property ownership and therefore eligible to satisfy 1031 exchanges. Um, so it's been in the code for 20, almost 22 years now. And the difference between, like a crowdfunding. When you go on a crowdfunding, you know, yeah, you can invest cash in XYZ Opportunity on a fractionalized basis, but you're not investing.

Speaker C: You.

Speaker A: You can't utilize that for 1031 purposes. It has to be real property ownership to satisfy. And so the DSTS cover, um, you know, check, uh, that. Check that box. Okay. Yep. Um, and let me just give you an example, because I a DST and I'm gonna uh, they're the sponsor companies or syndicators for DSTs and I'm just throwing out some big names. There's a bunch of folks in here. But your audience will, you know, whether it be Apollo or Starwood or Invesco or Aries or Tanner Fitzgerald. These are the type of institutions that are involved in this space among many others. And so these folks essentially utilize their relationships, their uh, capitalization, um, their expertise to buy institutional quality real estate. It may be a 1-800-million-$400 unit multifamily in Dallas, Texas. It may be um, uh, uh 100 million or 50 million dollar life science property in Minneapolis, Minneapolis, Minnesota or self storage in Raleigh, North Carolina, so on and so forth. So you have these big real estate companies go out, they buy these properties, the properties are owned, they're stabilized, they're income producing and they turn around and they offer everyday investors, uh, our parents, perhaps you, if you're so tired,

Speaker B: uh,

Speaker A: to, to, to sell their Property, do a 1031 exchange. Don't worry about the rules and regulations. You have a multitude of options in front of you. And just going back to the up to 499 investors. The minimums are for the most part 100 to $250,000 each. So think about Mrs. Smith. She sells a 2 million dollar duplex here in Orange County. I can take Mrs. Smith's 2 million out of one property in one little location and I can put spread it out 10 different ways. And I wanted to, to mitigate risk diversification by sector, by geography, more times than not increase your income. And most importantly to our clients is there's no more getting calls from tenants.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: And it gives them the freedom and flexibility to spend time with their grandkids, live their life and not have to worry about it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So really it takes a lot of the, the 1031. Instead of putting all your eggs in the into one asset, one property, you can spread it out and takes the management off your plate. So and you, so you get a lot of the benefits. That's awesome. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Because that is kind of stressful too. Like you know you're, you're uh, that the 1031, you're on this time limit, you're like oh I got to find this other asset to pour this big gain into. And then that can be just an urgent, you know, just difficult situation.

Speaker A: So when you're facing a uh, you know, whatever the 2, 3, 500amillion dollar tax bill. It's, uh, it's, you know, it's concerning.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. So it sounds like, you know, you're working with a lot of the baby boomers, people in this, in this, uh, transition. Um, you know, what are some of the human behavior, like just, Just, uh, behind that. What are some of their feelings, some of their thoughts? Like someone coming to you and into that age you mentioned. Tired. But is there any other thing that kind of comes to mind when you're working with people in, in this, uh, in this demographic? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, the, the biggest hurdle. And like, you. And you don't feel bad enough that you did not knowing about DSTs, because 95 of every single sophisticated real estate investor, CPA attorney, they, they really don't have any idea that they exist either. Um, so with that in mind, you know, again, think about even you. You know, you, You've built this real estate business, you have these properties. Um, our clients have built their businesses and built their wealth through. Through, uh, uh, uh, through their, uh. With their own hands.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. Uh, and, and to, to think about, um, handing over the controls to some foreign agent. Right. Regardless of how big they are.

Speaker B: Right. It is, is.

Speaker A: Is very, very difficult.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I, uh, you know, totally sympathize. And so that's the, um, that just comes to mind. You brought that up. That's a, It's a sense of. It's such a big change. It's, it's, it's so concerning and, and very difficult for some of, uh, our investors. Their arms around.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because I'm picturing people. Yeah. Just building their business with, you know, mom and pop businesses, uh, in it every day for, you know, 30, 40 years and always having control. Right. And I, I even have. We all struggle with that, um, even in there, even when I'm running a business now. I had a conversation with one of my employees today, and I was. I've been doing something in the business, but I'm getting ready to hand that over. And yeah, it's a scary, scary feeling. Anytime you give over that control to somebody else, you don't know how it's going to go. A lot of uncertainty there, especially if it's like your lifetime, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, this is what they. This is like the biggest part of their overall network. How scary could that be? You've worked a lot, so that's, That's.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. Um, I got a few questions here. Uh, you know, you know, just going back to more of the. Some of the deeper questions. Um, so obviously you're offering, you know, um, DSTS, 1031 exchanges, investments, and you're talking to people about that. But, um, you know, talk about this earlier in the show. It's just, how do we help people's hearts continue to be aligned, uh, with maybe with the things that really, really matter, um, not just helping people get richer, but actually live freer. Uh, and I think, I think, you know, we talked a little bit about that. Like, again, you know, there's no amount of money that can, um, that can cause even myself, like, not to maybe have fear, not to have anxiety or not to have worry. Um, and so I still see people like very, very wealthy people, they just live very. Trapped, I guess is maybe the right word.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it. It is. It's a amazing question. It's a question I haven't, you know, figured out myself. So I'll take that with. Um. Um. You know, I, uh, don't want to go on a diet track, but I, uh, will say, for what it's worth, and I love your feedback. I've been in the business for 20 years and we didn't even go to my background. And I won't even kind of, uh, go into it, Frank. But over my 20 years in this business, um, at, ah, a fairly early on, I. The morals and. And ethics and greed. Morals and ethics, I feel like, have gone out the door. Greed has gone through the roof. Um, it's. It's been so one of the hardest things for me to see happen to. To. To, you know, experience betrayals over money or this. And, and, and I'd say, um, it's still very hard for me today. And, and I just try to do the best that I can to always do what's right, regardless of the consequences to me, good or bad. You do what's right. Um, and so back to your question. Like, what are you talking about? I don't know how you swing that pendulum, because I feel like if people, if I feel like our parents and the great generation, it wasn't always like, it wasn't like that. Different people. Um, and how do we, how do we get back to family values? Right. Religion, God, Um, that I think would solve, um, maybe not. But I don't know how you get there. Uh, I know the pendulum always swings. Hopefully it's swinging back now. Uh, but I, I feel, personally, I feel like there needs to be a catalyst to get us back there, um, so that there's more appreciation for. And gratitude just for every day.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, uh. No, I love that. I love that. That's a good. That's a good answer. And, uh. Um. Yeah, I was just sitting on my back patio, so I, uh. Today. And sometimes I work outside because it's so beautiful. I mean, you're. You're beautiful all the time. In Southern California, Indiana, we. We don't get beauty all the time, but it was a beautiful day today, and I was just kind of reflecting on. On that. And, you know, I go through seasons of pushing and, um, stress. Right. And anxiety and, uh, when I'm in the middle of it, I don't quite understand. Um, but, you know, today I was just reflecting on. Yeah. Just the gratefulness and, uh. Like, I don't know if I, you know, want to live on the next, you know, five years, 10 years, 15 years of just pushing so hard. I just want to enjoy the day. I want to enjoy my wife. I want to enjoy, um. And I don't have to. Yeah. Push, push. Push as much. Anyways, there's some reflections I. I haven't figured out either. And so, like. So. And, uh. But these are some. Some reflections that I have. Um, you obviously, you know, do you have kind of a why behind you? I mean, you're helping transition people into, uh. In this new season of life with these new tools. I mean, is there something that. I mean, you talked a little bit about earlier in your earlier life. Right. But maybe even now, today, like, do you have a. A purpose behind, you know, even this business? Maybe is there something that's. It's even stirring up, um, a new. A new, you know, hunger? A new purpose is like, man, this is. This is good. This is really good why I do this.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, uh, you know, again, I'm still figuring things out, but, uh, I'll tell you, I. I know the purpose, and I mentioned it kind of on the front end is I. And in line with what I just said, being involved in these on the corporate side and dealing with the politics and the greed and the betrayal. I mean, it was just. It just drove me nuts. And then I get out and, um. I care about people. And, um, you see so many investors being just totally hung out to dry, um, through bad advice for people that don't care. Or even if they do care, they don't really know what to do. So it was, uh. Uh, yeah. The path and the reason that I. I started, Perch. Well, um. Uh, and Perch is symbolic, right? I mean, I have people go, well, Why'd you name your company after a fish? It's not a fish. Uh, you know, a higher, an elevated view, higher. Ethical, moral, um, standing, and a better understanding of the market itself. But, uh, I do know that I love to help people. And um, and that's what I've set out to do. So helping people, whether it be in business or anything that I do, I try to help people every day, all day. Uh, uh, unfortunately, you know, not everybody thinks that way, but I do. It fills me and that's my purpose.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's awesome. Love it. All right, last, last couple of questions. Let's dream. Let's kind of dream together. So maybe take yourself 10 years down the road. Um, and um, you know, I know you sounds like you're working through some different things. Um, and you're helping people transition. You're helping yourself, you know, transition to trans transformation. Like, what's something that you see yourself even in this, in your life in the next 10, 15 years?

Speaker A: Well, I'll tell you where I'd love to be. Uh, like you. I'm tired. Um, um, I would love to be in five years playing pickleball five days a week, enjoying my family, not working as hard and stressed. Um, I don't know if that was the basis of the question, but no, I want to slow down. I want to slow down. I want to. As I said, I think on the call, I'm aware of these things and my deficiencies or my flaws, but I feel like I need the time to actually tackle that now. Again, I don't think that's the right way. You need to tackle it today. Um, but that's what I would. I hope that I can get to a point where I don't have this, uh, anxiety, if you will, or, or need or fear based, uh, drive to, uh, feel successful or need to make money or whatever it may be. I want that to go away and I want to appreciate the moment.

Speaker B: Yeah. Awesome. I love it to be present. That's cool. Um, Benjamin, how can we support you? How can we, uh, if we're interested in some of the vehicles and uh, you know what, you have the offer, someone may be listening in. Maybe they're, they have something, uh, they're transitioning in life. Uh, uh, what's the best, uh, route for them to get a hold of you and possibly work with maybe a DST or a 1031 exchange or anything else? What do you guys do other things besides that? Or is those your two kind of catalyst things?

Speaker A: Uh, no, I mean, Tax mitigation, uh, strategies, um, anything alternative investment related. If you're looking for passive income, if you're looking to mitigate taxes, if you. If you're looking to divest from active management. Those are the areas that we specialize in. And I appreciate you asking. Um, and look, we're happy. So it's not just, oh, I mentioned this. I have a business partner. We have 10 advisors throughout the, uh, country, so we do business nationally. If you have questions About Investments or 1031 exchanges or you're thinking about selling property in two years, feel free to call us. We're happy to, um, you know, educate and provide some guidance. And I give out my cell phone, um, believe it or not, and I will get back to you. Uh, my. My cell phone's 818-269-4972. Our website is perch wealth p e r c h wealth dot com. Um, and, uh, we'd love to speak to you so you can find me there or anybody else on our. On our team for that matter. They're great people.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Ben. Really appreciate you. Appreciate you sharing your heart too, man. I. I just really appreciate that. And our audience does, too. And, uh, um, yeah. Wish you so much success, brother.

Speaker A: I appreciate it. Likewise. Thank you very much. Go to irondeep.com and check out other resources we have to help you on your journey. We'd love to connect with you. As iron sharpens, iron friends, sharpen friends.

Speaker C: I want to move on. Talking about your book, the Secret War Within. This book is amazing. I'll just say it up front. I could not put it down. Thank you for sending me a copy. And I get sent copies, and I have just a, uh, catalog of books that I'm trying to get through. And so I didn't know if I would have time for this. And I started, like, the first chapter, and I had, like, three other books M. I'm reading. But then I just. I just came back to this, like, for the course of a week. And that doesn't happen where I just don't put a book down. And this was just something that definitely wanted to have you on talk about it because I think everyone needs to read this, especially men. It really speaks to the heart of the matter. And it's an allegory, which is also not a book I would normally read. But it's one of those things that I think that it just tells such a powerful story without breaking it down. Chapter, verse, and, like, diving into all the nitty gritty. It just tells a powerful story that so many people can relate to.

Speaker B: Purchase the Secret War within on Amazon. Leave a review and share a snippet of your experience with us, uh, through email or text. To show our gratitude, we'll send you a special gift. Just include your name and address in your message. I look forward to hearing from you.