Opportunity Zones, Concentration Risk, and the Long-Term Investor

Speaker A: As many family offices have experienced significant growth across technology and AI related investments, diversification has become an increasingly important conversation. The challenge, however, is that repositioning concentrated portfolios often comes with meaningful tax consequences. In this episode, we explore how Opportunity Zones are evolving as a tool to help address that challenge and why many investors are revising the strategy as conversations around opportunity zones 2.0 continue to grow. Foreign welcome back to the Mac Podcast. Today I have with me Ross Baird. Ross is the CEO and founder of Blueprint Local, a real estate private equity firm focused on investing in the transformation of communities across the United States. Since launching in 2018, Blueprint has invested roughly $250 million across Opportunity Zone and community Focused investments. Prior to founding Blueprint Ross built and invested in businesses through the creation of Village Capital and also served as an innovator in residence with the Ewing Marion Kaufman Foundation. He holds a Master of Philosophy from the University of Oxford, where he was a Marshall Scholar, and a Bachelor's degree from the University of Virginia, where he was both a Truman Scholar and Jefferson Scholar. Ross, great to finally have you on the show. We've known each other a long time through real estate and YPO connections. All things Opportunity zones. Um, let's start there. This is kind of what is old is new again. It's come back around in some ways. Talk about how you originally got involved in the Opportunity Zone space and give us a framework of what time that was timeline wise.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, first of all, great to be here, Brian. Thanks for having me. And big fan of your podcast, longtime, uh, listener, first time caller and guests. So it's great to be here. Um, yes. So opportunity zones are a, uh, it. Well, they're, if you measure it by private capital invested, they're the most successful economic development program in US history. 100 billion has gone into low income census tracts across the country, redeveloping cities like Nashville, where you are in Atlanta, where I'm from, and places across the country, uh, people, you know, visionaries. And I had a great boss and mentor real estate developer early in my career. But the visionaries have been developing and redeveloping cities forever. But it wasn't until about 10 years ago that there was the idea of a long term tax advantage to do so. So I've, I've been spending my whole career in investments and I had been, um, doing the kind of investments that became opportunities and investments when I was introduced to a group of people that were trying to pass what became the opportunities in legislation. This is around, around 10 years ago. Think tank called EIG. I live in the D.C. area and if you watch Schoolhouse Rock, how a bill becomes a law is rarely how it works, but in this case it actually is how it works. Like you have an idea, you get enough votes, it passes. A guy named Jared Bernstein, who was, who had been then Vice President Biden's chief economic advisor and then became President Biden's chief economic advisor, and a guy named Kevin Hassett, who had been an economic advisor to President George W. Bush and is now the top uh, economic adviser to President Trump, um, wrote a series of bipartisan ideas of ways that entrepreneurship, markets, investments could, could revitalize America. And this idea of opportunity zones I think came about because there's, there's an old saying that says you can always do more than you think you can in 10 years, you can do less than you think you can in one year. And people need to be incentivized to take a long term view. And so the idea of opportunity zones is simple. If you invest in a low income area, you stay with that investment for ten plus years. Um, there's a very significant tax advantage for doing so. So I heard this idea, I was saying, well, this is something that we are already doing without a tax incentive. But if we could get more American family offices, investors, individuals to take a longer time horizon to revitalizing our communities, that would be net a good financial investment. I think that'd be net great, great for the country. And here we are.

Speaker A: Great story. So maybe you know this, as you know this show is oriented towards the principals and professional managers of family offices. Many of them, as we discussed last week in New York when we were together, have significant unreal realized gains from private investing over the last cycle. Yeah, particularly with what we've seen in the tech and the AI space and some of the secondary transaction activity that's really ticked up. How are you seeing families think about and mitigate concentration risk within their own portfolios today?

Speaker B: Yeah. So the way, the way an opportunity zone, uh, investment works, uh, and this is important, I think thinking about your portfolio is if you have a capital gain, let's say you're just going to keep numbers simple. But let's say you're a small shareholder in SpaceX and SpaceX goes IPO this year, you have a million dollars in capital gain and you decide to put all of that million into opportunity zones. Most people do not put their whole gain into opportunity zones. It's, I'd say on average, I don't know, 10 to 30%. But um, just Keep it simple. You put a million into an opportunity Zone fund or an opportunity Zone project. Let's say we're working in Nashville and we've got abandoned uh, junkyard. That could be workforce housing for Nashville. It could be apartments for the thousands of people moving to Nashville. Or today there's nothing you invest in that apartment building in Nashville or whatever it could be. It could be industrial warehouse in Texas, could be anything. You whole, you get three big benefits. Number one, um, you would owe about 250,000 in taxes on that side. SpaceX million. Today you get to defer that uh, to 2032. Um, if, if the whole thing qualifies as an opportunities and investment. The second benefit is there are lots of uh, tax advantages over the next 10 years, mainly related to passive income. So you can earn income from the apartment in Nashville or the warehouse in Texas and you can claim depreciation from Opportunity zones that offsets either that income or any, any passive income in your portfolio. Typically in a lot estate people will claim depreciation, all kinds of assets which can be very tax advantaged. Typically when you sell a project, uh, the government does what's called recapture. If I got say a $250,000 tax loss from an investment and I sell that investment for 3 million, I have to pay that 250,000 back to the government. That's why some of these people will just own stuff forever and never sell that. The, the taxes that they would pay are too high. Um, opportunity zones are in my opinion way better for the tax sensitive investor in this aspect because depreciation is not recaptured if you hold it for 10 years. So you put in a million dollars, you could get let's say half of that back just in tax losses and you do not need to repay that. And then the third benefit, which is by far the biggest, which goes back to the first point, really getting you as a family to think with a long time horizon, which most family offices are anyway. If you hold that investment for 10 years and exit, um, you do not pay tax on any of the gains. So your million dollars turns into 3 million. You get that 3 million tax free. So you know, most of the family offices we invest with do have current concentration risk in their portfolio. I was talking with a family today who is our generation of a family that owned a public company, who you definitely have heard of that stuff. Stock continues to do well today. Most of the family's net worth is in this stock of this company that was owned by the family and now it's public. Um, It's a great stock to own, but they don't love the idea that 70% of their net worth is in this. But their, their basis in the family stock is basically zero. So there's a big tax hit anytime they want to liquidate it and do anything else for an episode like oh my goodness, I had this huge individual gain with SpaceX. This is unexpected, but it's, it's a great outcome. That's kind of situation A, situation B is hey, we're very overweighted in this one stock as a family just because of how we built our wealth. Could we liquidate some of the stock, almost all, uh, capital gain and maybe we're underweighted. In real estate, real assets, Opportunity zones is a very effective structure to say, hey, let's sell X percent, put Y dollars into opportunity zones and hold for 10 years. That is a tax efficient way to exit a concentrated position. And it's a tax efficient way build the real assets piece of your portfolio.

Speaker A: Right. So it can be, I think I hear a lot of families talk about this structure or this kind of construction of tax advantaged investing, but also an opportunity to rebalance or diversify portfolios is

Speaker B: that, go back to a, uh, tax incentive is not a reason to do something you otherwise would do. I have seen and you have seen families be way over complicated in the ability to avoid taxes. So paying a tax and doing a good deal is better than getting a tax break and doing a bad deal. But if you say, hey, um, this project, this investment, this fund makes sense and it is an opportunity Zone project, it's an extremely useful tool for diversification if you're overweighted in, I don't know, fixed income or S and P or whatever. I mean we've seen an incredible run up, largely AI driven, largely magnificent seven driven, um, in public equities over the last four or five years. Um, and we have families who just by nature of owning Nvidia, uh, have way more in public equities than they thought they would and they're way overallocated relative where they'd like to be. I think, and we can talk about this, this is a very good buying moment in real estate for a number of structural reasons. So you know, taking some gains off the table in public equities and rebalancing and opportunity zones is, is, is a move we're seeing a lot of families do.

Speaker A: In a family business, decisions rarely come down to just the business itself. They sit at the intersection of what's best for the company and what's best for the family. For those operating in this world, that's an added layer of complexity and not always something that's easy to navigate alone. Today I am excited to highlight Banyan Global Family Business Advisors, a, uh, firm that has advised more than 250 family owner groups and work through these exact scenarios alongside their clients. They help empower owners to navigate difficult decisions, clarifying the options available and working through what it takes to move forward and in the process, strengthening relationships along the way. To learn more, visit Banyan Global. So in some ways this is kind of opportunity zone 2.0 and you've been involved from the start. Can you walk us through what one point, uh, zero was relative to 2.0 experience? Shared lessons learned. Any differences that are significant? I think there's, there's not misunderstanding, but I, I think people just conflate it as one thing. But there, there have been differences in the programs.

Speaker B: So there's the psychological phenomena. You've probably seen. It's heard of this, of the Dunning Kruger effect. When a new idea comes out, there's sort of, uh, hype, inflated expectations, and then there's a crash, there's a trough of reality and then something reaches stabilization. So a new idea doesn't really go from zero to a hundred in a flat line. I think 2017 opportunities in its past gets a ton of energy, attention. Felt like I was speaking on a webinar every other day to this accounting firm or this wealth management firm or this family office that wanted to learn. We did not do a single investment in 2018 because people say, oh, I have this property that's in an opportunity zone. Let me jack up the prices 30% and see if anyone will overpay for the land. So there were, there was tons of hype. I think Anthony Scaramucci went out to raise a $3 billion fund. I think he only raised 17 million. And I think there was, people realized into it that underlying deals or the underlying assets need to be good. In the first year, there was just not a lot of clarity on what a good opportunity zone deal looked like. An opportunity zone specifically is a census tract, which in rural America, in Loving County, Texas, in the middle of the Permian Basin. It's the entire county. In a city like Nashville, it might be Wedgwood, it might be a neighborhood, it might be 10 blocks by 10 blocks. But if you have a project in that census tract, um, it, it can qualify for the opportunities and benefit. I think what we realized about two years in is there were really good local Partners. There were really good areas where, you know, Wedgwood is not as expensive as Belmead in Nashville. Uh, it may never be as expensive as Belmead, but the gap is here today. But if you hold, if you hold and invest in Wedgwood for a 10 year period, Wedgwood could have a lot of growth, a lot of growth, a lot more growth than Belmead. And so neighborhoods, counties, towns that have long term growth trajectories and need a lot of private capital to get there is a great fit for an opportunity zone. And those are the projects that we've seen. We've made 25 investments now. Um, and the end of the opportunity zones were originally meant to be a 10 year experiment. The end of the 10 years is coming up next year. And it was an open question is, is this going to live on beyond the initial pilot? So last year I probably met with over a hundred senators, members of Congress, staffers, um, saying what have we learned, where are we going? What, what experiences we have? By far the biggest boon of opportunity zones is housing. There is a 10 million person housing shortage in the country and that's everything from apartments to single family homes. Opportunity zones. 70% of opportunities and investments have gone into multifamily housing. It's probably the biggest stimulus package for new housing construction we've seen today. One out of four housing units under construction in the country are in an opportunity zone. Uh, that has been net very positive. There is not evidence of displacement, there is not evidence of rent hikes and people being priced out. It's basic supply and demand. If you add more housing to a growing city like Austin, Texas or Nashville, Tennessee, it gets cheaper for people who live there, it gets cheaper for people to move there. I think that's net good for growth. So most 70% of investments have been in housing. Most of what we have done is housing we're largely very happy with, with how the portfolio is going as we look at where 2.0 is going. The maps are a weird political process. They were drawn by each governor's office. Each state did it very differently in 2017 when they were drawing the first maps in 2018. Some states did it data driven and said, where is private investment likely to go? Some states or cities, if you look at a city and you say, why is that an opportun opportunity zone and why is that area across the street not? It's like, well, the city councilman who represents that and the mayor got along and the mayor hated the city councilman who represents that. So it Was. It was in some, some states did it in a very forward thinking way. Um, Alabama, for instance. I grew up in Georgia and we used to say, you know, we beat Alabama and everything. Maybe football, sometimes we don't. But Georgia beats Alabama and everything. Alabama is number seven in the country and opportunities and capital attracted because the state did a very good job picking zones that, that private capital would find of interest. And I thought, I think, I think that was a big win. Other states did a weaker job. I think this go round 2.0, I think there are three aspects that investors should know. Number one, there will be new maps. So some areas that were left out are eligible to come. In some areas, probably Wedgwood and Nashville are no longer low income and will be grandfathered out. I think that's great. There's going to be a whole round of new projects. The deal flow will be 10 times as strong because a bunch of new deals will be thrown into the qualifying bin. And most states are doing a very good job and a much less political job in some cases of selecting. Most states have a opportunity zones are the state level. That's trying to pick really where the markets will respond best. The second thing to know about 2.0 is, um, there was a short time span where you got an extra tax cut and a big tax deferral. That was an initial kind of, I don't want to say marketing gimmick, but it kind of was to get people interested in making an early investment in the program. Some of those incentives went away in 2019, others went away in 2022. When those went away, people thought the program ended. I've heard a couple hundred times this year talking about opportunities and say, oh, I thought those went away four or five years ago. They've always been around. Just some of the extra tax incentives went away starting for gains this year, investments made next year. And with the caveat, uh, that everything I'm saying is not tax advice and you should consult your tax advisor if you're making an opportunity investment.

Speaker A: There it is.

Speaker B: That is very necessary for the entire podcast. So consider that blanket everything I'm saying. You should consult your tax advisor if your gains do qualify. But many gains from 26 will qualify for opportunities in 2.0, which has the added benefit of the new maps. The second benefit Is gains in 26 that qualify will have the potential to defer until 2032. So you have a five year deferral on gains and you get an extra 10% off the top tax cut. You may get more if you do a rural investment, which is a new feature of the program, then the third thing to remember is I think the most beneficial, um, part of the program is uh, the fact that any capital gains from your Opportunity zone investment over 10 years you take home completely tax free. That has not changed. That has never changed. That is by far the biggest benefit. I remind families, some families who are used to investing in, I don't know, strip malls with Walgreens and Chick Fil A's where they get 5% coupons each year, say, well, what's the annual yield? I say two things. One, you know, once these are developed and stabilized, here's what the projections say. But two, I'd say if you're looking for short term liquidity, Opportunity zones are not that. Opportunity zones are a long term capital preservation and appreciation strategy and it can compound and appreciate a, ah, very effectively tax free. If you are a family office that largely requires distributions from your holdings to fund schools and budgets and your day to day living, um, this is not the investment for you because it is very illiquid for a very long time. If you are looking to diversify and long term intergenerationally compound and appreciate it, it may be in many ways the best after tax solution or one of the best you could look at. So I would say the 10 year tax free exit has always been the best part. That has never gone away, that remains the short term deferral. And the new maps for 2.0 are both, are both great and those begin for many gains that happen this year.

Speaker A: And are you seeing that's helpful? Thank you. Uh, because it is confusing I think for a lot of us on the outside looking in. Have you seen any of that translate into differences in terms of the sophistication level or knowledge level of families you're working with? Because now they have some familiarity. And is that uh, changing at all the types of projects that they're looking to deploy capital into?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean there are probably, I'd say common mistakes I see families make. So to invest in an opportunity Zone and get the tax benefits, you have to invest in a qualified Opportunity zone fund, a federally registered fund. I have seen over and over again, family has a 3 million gain. They set up their own Opportunity zone fund. Some tax advisors said here's how you do it. But if you have your own fund, it is actually quite difficult to get access to good investments. So you know, the average good investment is probably, I don't know, 30 to 50 million in equity. There may be 1, 2, 3 institutions in if a family with their 3 million doll shows up for that size project, it's very. The, the person sponsoring the deal doesn't want to take on an extra layer of compliance for what's going to be realistically I don't know, 8% of the capital. So you know there are some families who are real estate families and they sell an asset that they own and they make a hundred million dollars and they set up their own OZ fund to do their next project. If real estate is your business, setting up your own fund makes a lot of sense. If real estate is not your core business. I mean There are 300 people like us where I would be a horrible CEO if I didn't say I believe we're the best. I believe we're the best. But that's my job to believe we're the best. Um, but you know, large institutions like Related have their own opportunities and fund their independent small groups. Um, I mentioned Alabama. There's a group called Opportunity Alabama that does funds just for investments in Alabama. If you're a family that lives in Birmingham and you want to invest in Alabama, that would be who you would go to. But finding a professional manager who can do the investments for you, the sourcing, diligence, oversight is, is great because you do. There's a weird quirk where you have your own self managed fund. You can't invest in another Opportunity Zone fund with that capital. You can't get into most of the projects. So we do see a bunch of orphaned self directed funds from people who may not understand the market as well. That's kind of mistake one. I think mistake two relates to this, um, short duration, long duration. I think the reason, um, for instance, I don't, I can tell you what it is. I don't like the question what's the projected internal rate of return on a 10 year real estate investment? I can manipulate number any. Anyone can look at different rent scenarios or different cost scenarios that could give you a range of things. The multiple and invested capital or return on equity is, is better metric over 10 years. And you know I think we target about a 3x over 10 years with, with the caveat that these are all projections and it's not to be relied upon. You know going in with a million dollars saying the underwritten outcome here is $3 million tax free over 10 years. There will be tax benefits along the way, probably will be liquidity along the way. But that long term tax free capital appreciation is why we are doing this particular investment is probably the wisest Way

Speaker A: to think of it and maybe going more to the real estate side. I know you referenced something earlier but I'd love your thoughts where, what are your thoughts on a macro level about where we are in the cycle, what opportunities might exist and how that interplays within the opportunity zone space?

Speaker B: Yeah, you know I think, I think it's been a very volatile three or four years in real estate. You have um, largely because of zero interest rate policy during COVID unprecedented construction. Um, especially in cities like Nashville that are growing quickly. 2024 and 2025 were the two biggest years in recent history of, of new products of all types, industrial, multifamily, um, office. The exception is the post Covid office is its own area. But most products saw ah, an unprecedented supply wave in 2425 related in pretty much every market unless it was a market like New York or San Francisco where it's pretty much impossible to build new supply rents in most every market in the country underperformed 2425. Basic supply and demand, a bunch of new stuff hits. Rents underperform. Combined with interest rate hikes, combined with wars in Iran and Ukraine, combined with global commodities uncertainty. There are a lot of headwinds, not a lot of tailwinds. That said in 26 there is, this is in multifamily specifically but supply clearly has peaked in cities like Austin and Dallas that had a lot of supply added. Supply is down 70 to 90%. Um, we are seeing at the project level, um, leases happen much faster than they have the last couple of years. Um, rents coming in higher. Um, at a macro level I was just looking at, um, there are 16 public REITs in multifamily whose earnings calls. Uh, we had Transcripts of all 16 said rents were flat or down last year. All 16 said rents are up this year. And these are the biggest part. Avalon Bay people, Avalon Bay biggest apartment owners in the country. Um, at the same time, um, you know I was talking earlier today to a equity ah, markets broker, top capital raiser for private equity and real estate and he was, he was, I was talking to him and he was, he was um, basically saying that there it has been so hard to raise capital the last three or four years and is still hard today. He is on a self imposed sabbatical where he's going to go work on his hobbies until he sees the capital markets turn around. So it's very, very hard to capitalize projects. But the projects that are delivering we're probably seeing the strongest metrics we have in four to five years. I think this, you know, this is the basic supply. Demand has not been this out of balance in a while and that's why I think properties and 2.0 we're doubling down on holding good assets in good markets for the long term. It does take a little contrarian view and it does take going into the weeds of here's why this year is good and last year was soft. But I think it's what we're seeing

Speaker A: and any particular food groups or project types that you're more bullish on than not.

Speaker B: We've done well in industrial and I would um, there's not a lot of industrial supply coming on and particularly in growing markets like, like Texas, there's really no shortage of demand as uh, you know if you look at, if you look at Austin for instance, uh, just between SpaceX, Tesla, Samsung, a huge amount of insuring and domestic manufacturing, just to that city we're talking about tens of thousands of jobs. And um, all these companies need space, their parts suppliers need space. Contractors building the homes for the people who are going to work there need space and we don't have enough. That is one food group that is interesting. And Brian, I know that's a lot of your background and you have a lot of expertise there. I think there was probably oversupply in 2122 and there is under supply now. It's a very similar story to multifamily. With multifamily I think you know we just did an investment in Winchester, Virginia. I live in, I'm talking right now from Loudoun County, Virginia where estimated 70% of the high speed data center traffic in the world goes. Um, and you have farms selling for $10 million an acre to Amazon and Nvidia to build data centers here in Loudoun County. Uh, Winchester is a town in the D.C. exurbs nearby here that is the fastest growing city in the region. A lot of the growth is coming from all the activity here in data center alley. Winchester had 5,000 apartment seekers last year and has 600 Class A apartments. The city and the county has gone from 90,000 to 150,000 in the last 10 years and there's just been little to no building. So you know there are pockets of the country that are seeing really, really meaningful growth and in almost all cases in the last five years supply has not even come close to keeping up with it. So where is the growth happening and what infrastruct has not been built? And basically, I mean I think there was a uh, conventional wisdom coming out of Zero interest rate in Covid that like Charlotte's overbuilt or Nashville's overbuilt. And people continue to move to Charlotte, people continue to move to Nashville. Nothing new has been built in five years, which is somewhat of an eternity in the life of the city. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people being added to these cities. And so, you know, we're, we're behind on building and keeping up with the population growth trends of the last five years. Years.

Speaker A: And that's a good segue. I mean, where do you see this going, you know, for families that have multi generational time horizons and massive tax sensitivities? Uh, I like the way you set this up in terms of paper gains or the paper economy versus the real economy or real assets. That seems to make sense and track a lot of the conversations I'm having. How are you seeing families think about this from a portfolio, construction, asset allocation, big risk picture?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's two buckets. So I think it is the, um, institutional family office is very much an allocator question. So to say, hey, what is our desired concentration in public equities? Or if the family's wealth largely derives from a small number of assets, what's our concentration of these assets versus diversification? How do we move the needle? You know, we have one family that is highly concentrated in one asset and they have invested with us a little bit every year since 2022. They say they, I was just with them last week. They say they'll invest a little bit with us as part of a 10 year broader family plan to diversify from this one asset, which is a publicly traded company that a family member founded, um, into lots of different things. And you know, they're going, they're making PE investments and you know, they're investing in sports teams and different, different things, uh, for all different reasons. So what is your broader plan to diversify from X and go into Y? It is extremely likely that you will have huge capital gains exposure when you exit X. Opportunity zones can be a piece of that pie. And that, that is kind of bucket a. I think the 10 year hold bothers that type of investor almost zero because they're already thinking in an intergenerational mindset. So holding this for 10 years, I mean some, some people in that bucket will say, I mean, if it's doing well after 10 years and it's cap, why don't we hold it forever? It's like, well, that, you know, that would be a conversation to have once we're in a position to exit tax free. And then I think there's Bucket B, which is um, new wealth creation. I am a VP at SpaceX and in the IPO I have taken home the ability to liquidate, you know, $200 million in SpaceX stock. Um, and my current net worth. I have a mortgage on my home and that will be 100% of my current net worth. Then you're trying to figure out your comprehensive plan of what does your entire picture look like. In that case you would say, well, what piece of that should be in real assets? What piece of that do you not want to touch for 10 years? Um, again there's no magic number to it. We did look at this just anecdotally and I'd say In like the one off big gain, people tend to put 10 to 30% of that gain amount in opportunities. And saying it'd be nice to have long term real estate. Doing that now helps us a lot tax wise. But that's just one big event that is completely reshaped the financial size of your portfolio.

Speaker A: It's been really helpful for me because I think like a lot of people, you heard about this and it went away, now it's coming back. And I appreciate you bringing some of your own knowledge here. This is your opportunity to clarify anything. Are there misconceptions still in the market or things that people still believe to be true that just simply aren't based in fact around this space?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think that the common things I hear is opportunity zones were here for a while, then all the deals went bad, then they went away. There have, unfortunately some of the loudest players have had some of the worst deals. So uh, for instance I mentioned the Scaramucci fund. I believe they did one investment which was a hotel in New Orleans, a virgin hotel which is now worth zero. But that was very high profile. I would say the vast majority. And again there's been a hundred billion invested. I'd say the vast majority of opportunity zone projects more rhyme with um, you know, the apartment I talked about in downtown Winchester, which is um, you know, fairly boring apartment building in market that has very interesting growth dynamics and there's just not enough places for people to live. And owning a fairly boring but nice apartment building in an area that needs housing and is growing is, is, is a long term asset. So I'd say most, you know, a few of the splashiest projects, um, have kind of given the program a bad name. I say most of the good operators, um, do a lot more than they talk about. And I'd say most of the projects are doing what they intended to do. Assets that are appreciating in value. Um, I think the second misconception again is because these early incentives went away, people think the program went away. The early incentives that went away are back. Uh, and there is no cliff. It is now a permanent part of the tax code. So the five year deferral will always be there. The 10% tax cut will always be there. Opportunity zones are back and permanent and better than ever. And then again, I think the third thing is if you are doing something for tax reasons without looking at the underlying asset, you can, uh, make some bad decisions. But the, the very best operators, I mean, we talk about our whole track record. Most of our projects are on track and that's great. And we can give you the detail on that. Um, we can also tell you about the, you know, the percent that is not, uh, which is less than 10% are not. And they're, we can tell you why they're not on track and what we've learned from that and share our experience as well. So I think, you know, I think if you are a family interested in opportunities, I'm obviously happy to talk to you. But the good operators will be blunt about when this is a fit, when this isn't, what's going well, what's not. And I think, I think a lot of the hype did turn a lot of people off and I think the hypers have moved on to NFT and crypto and coins with people's faces on them and whatever the, the flavor of the month is.

Speaker A: Enough said. Well, Ross, thanks for coming on. It's been terrific. You're an old friend and I'm excited to have you come on the platform and tell people what you're doing. It's an incredible opportunity, especially given where we are in the cycle, in the market. If folks are interested in learning more about the platform or just honestly leveraging you as a resource, you're an incredible content provider in the space. What's the best way for them to get engaged?

Speaker B: Yes, I am Ross@blueprint-local.com you can send me an email, either me or someone on my team. You know, there are aspects of this that my team knows 10 times better than I do. We got a great team, so aspects that I know best. But, uh, if you're thinking of setting up your own OZ program, like I said, in most cases that's not the right fit. But if real estate is your core business, it could make sense. Happy to be a resource to you. Um, if you're interested in diversifying. Happy to tell you what we're seeing. But, Brian, thanks for being a great friend and such a trusted advisor to so many people. It's. It's an honor to be able to talk about this with you. Appreciate it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate it. Ross, Great to have you on and definitely encourage people to reach out if they're at all interested. Ross, incredible resource and an old friend, so thanks. Appreciate it.

Speaker B: Uh.