🐊 Wrestling the SEO Crocodile

Your B2B Marketing Pint is the podcast for B2B technology marketers who want to sharpen their competitive edge. Joined by other marketing veterans, your hosts Brian o' Grady and Brendan Ziolo share expertise on what works today and why. Grab a cold pint of hot takes on branding, content marketing, demand generation and more. Served with a side of sarcasm. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the B2B marketing pint. Super excited for today's topic. But before we get there, Brian, who's joining us today. Thank you for asking, Brendan. This is going to be a goodie. Today I'm happy to introduce to you Ms. Adriana Shukla. Adriana Wave. There you go. Adriana's out of Boston. There you go. Adriana is a demand gen leader and Adriana has built a lot of demand gen and scaled marketing engines across various companies. We work together at some of them, others not so much. But I'm intrigued to find out all about it. And today, Adriana, correct me if I'm wrong, you were director of demand gen at Snowplow and you've got all the pipeline growth and the whole marketing stack. I see you nodding. So, okay, that's a nice little portfolio to have to yourself and Adriana. I go back to a place where we worked together called Kinaxis. I think you owned web at the time, Adriana. Search Warrant Digital was an agency that supported you folks. We did some good things there, had some fun, won some awards. But what we did there has changed a lot. That was a few years ago now and there was a lot of SEO there and that has all changed. Or has it? This is the, this is the question we will be reviewing today and one of the reasons we wanted to talk to Adriana, let's be honest, you've got a neat mix to your personality type, Adriana, which is you know stuff and you're not afraid to say it yet you're still good fun to work with. I know lots of people have it, have one of those attributes. I don't know too many people who have all three of those attributes. I really value the folks who are not shy will tell you what they think but don't, don't need to be mean about it. I think that's, that's a, not a bad description of you in a nutshell. So thank you for joining us today and thank you for not being vague or wishy washy. This is going to be a lot of fun and the most important question I have for you Is what are you sipping today? So I have a unicorn sangria. Okay. Yes. It's raspberry, blue, raspberry strawberries and. And peaches with a white wine. So that is what I am. Yeah, so that is what I am sipping on today. So it's not made with real unicorns? No, no, it's actually. It's called a skinny mix. And. Yeah, mix it in with your white wine and you've got your unicorn sangria. So. So that's what I'm drinking today, guys. And we don't have to. Yeah, we don't have to change our tagline of no unicorns were harmed in the filming of this podcast. That's also super helpful. Thank you. And Adrian, Brian, what are you drinking? I just seem so boring in comparison. This is a classic. We've done it once before. Another episode. It's a dab. It's a German beer, which is my shorthand for good beer. And I'm almost to the point of not caring what part of Germany or what style. If it comes from that country and it's beer, I probably want to drink it. And that's one of these. How about you, Brendan? I think I'm also repeating again, I'm doing a sober carpenter. This one's a session ipa. Fingers crossed. It's a great summer beer. It's a lighter IPA for anyone who likes an IPA. This one's non alcohol, but session IPAs are all good. I'm hoping that signals to start a summer someday. Week, month or whatever we're at. Any day now would be good. I may have gotten sleep all over me this morning and what I was up to this morning, so let's. Let's not do that. Well, I think Adriana beat us to the opening. I didn't open, so I will do that now and pour. And I'm not even using the glass. I'm being a barbarian today. Oh, boy. I have a draft. A glass. All right, here we go. All right, cheers, everyone. Cheers. It's a good podcasting. All right, Brian, if you don't mind, I'm gonna ask the first question today. I'm not supposed to, but why not? So, Adriana, as Brian highlighted, you have a great background, a lot of insights in a lot of different areas. But I'm going to kick this off with one area that I know a lot of our listeners are talking about and thinking about, and that's, you know, they're not in the weeds on SEO like you are and like Brian is as well, but they're Responsible for results. So if you're a cmo, a vp, a senior marketing leader, you know, walking into the room right now, what are two or three things that they should be asking their SEO team to focus on? I know a lot has changed, so feel free to also bring us up to speed on a lot of the changes. But what are you looking at, what are you seeing and what do you think people should be focusing on? Yeah, so I'd say that when I'm talking to my team, there's a couple questions that I ask. You know, first to myself and to them, are we being used by AI, not just ranked by Google, but like, are we showing up in results for ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, Claude, et cetera, and not just being ranked by Google in like search results, because as we all know, we now have AI that is kind of our search engine. And then are we capturing like, big problems, high intent problems, not just traffic? So, sure, we could all day say, what is xyz or, you know, what is, you know, a certain subset of problems. But really what we want to do is how do I fix X? Or compare A versus B and try to capture those that are making transactional or informative decisions, or high intent problems, as I call them. And then we also want to tie our SEO as much as we can to Pipeline, not just like, are we getting page views, which from a brand awareness perspective, you know, I'm sure that I'll get a chance to talk about brand awareness, but from that perspective, we always want to tie it back to Pipeline. So, you know, are we actually influencing the opportunities that are coming through to us, not just are we seeing our page views, you know, staying the same, plateauing, growing, etc. So I would say that I stick to those three questions. And there are a variety of tools out there that you can use to measure these things. But if you don't have the budget to be able to do that, like I say, to start off simple and go to ChatGPT or Perplexity or Gemini and have a spreadsheet, literally. And I literally say to my team, here's our spreadsheet, here are the queries that we want to show up for. And week over week, we just say, did we show up in these queries where we mentioned yes or no? Were competitors listed? Yes or no? Which ones? And the source links that they used, you know, the AI used in order to come up with that distinction. And that will allow you to see, like, what are competitors also popping up for? Like, how are they Getting ranked as well as, you know, if you weren't ranked, why or how could you be for those queries? And then just mark that over time, like week over week, and see if there's any changes. And that's kind of, you know, from my perspective. Those are the main things that I focus on in order to see, you know, are we making a difference in this SEO world and how do we move the needle? Yeah. Wow. Wow. She didn't, you know, drop any good hints for us to follow up on. Keep it simple, focus on the problem, tie it to pipeline. Wow. Yeah. This is, I mean, all good marketing points, and, yeah, definitely takes us beyond the SEO conversation. So maybe, Brian, you can take over and get her with a harder question, since mine was too easy. I don't know if I've ever stumped Adrian. I don't know if this will be the. This will be the day to try. I do like the suggestion. I'll paraphrase what you said of let's not just do random acts of SEO, let's actually know what we're trying to achieve and then figure out, point that in a direction, have a goal post. I like that a lot. I mean, we did that a lot with you, Brian. You know, like, we always had, you know, like this goal post that we were trying to hit and, like, are we up, down, you know, where are we at from that? You know, so. Exactly. And I know later on when we're going to talk about, we can either make the case that everything's different than it used to be, or everything's actually the same as it used to be. And I think we can make either argument. I'm intrigued to figure out which one comes out later. But before we go there, I want to talk about monsters. I want to talk about crocodiles in particular. For those who are in the industry, their eyes just all started rolling because they know for the last. About a year, year and a half ago or so, people all started to see these graphs that looked like. These are SEO graphs, folks. Graphs that look like a profile of a crocodile's mouth opening if you're not. Yeah, exactly. There you go. I was looking for a visual. I should have brought a visual to this, and I didn't. I was gonna ask for a whiteboard here. I was gonna ask for a whiteboard sketch, but apparently we just need Adriana's hand signals. So this is your crocodile from the side, and these. This is search console or other tools you're looking at. These are all of your impressions going up and to the right, and that makes you kind of happy because it's better than them going down. But this down here, the bottom of the crocodile's jaw, is all of your visits or your traffic or your sessions going down and to the right, and that's happening at the same time. And that's plain weird. People in the industry have been dealing with this for a little while, but if you don't spend every day, every moment talking SEO, that might be fresh and new. So, Adriana, what's. What's your take on it? What's going on there? What, if anything, should you do about that situation? I'm one of the many that had also seen the crocodile mouth on my. On my data. And, you know, it really came down to when Google released their AI overview information, and they kind of changed some of their algorithms to, you know, accommodate for that. You really. What you're seeing is that you're becoming visible, but it's. They're not landing on your site anymore because they're getting their answers from the AI engine, right? So they don't have to come to your site. They just. They got the answers that they needed. And, you know, a lot of people, I mean, I sat in several, you know, meetings with folks on my team saying, well, how the hell do we get them back to their. Our site? We can't have them leave. We can't have them get our, you know, the data and the information and all that stuff and then not get something for it. Yeah, I can't give them for free. Yeah, exactly. So if crocodiles were mammals, I guess. But anyway, please proceed. So, yeah, we, you know, there was a lot of. There was a couple weeks there where we were trying to figure out what the hell do we do? You know? And at first we were like, is something broken? That was the first thing. And then we were like, oh, nope. All of this information started to come out of what was actually causing it. So when we started to, like, unpack it a little bit, we said, well, you know, what if they get the answer that they're looking for in that, we need to figure out how we get them to want to know more. Because, sure, they can read the AI overview, and let's say it's, what does Adriana have in her hand, right, for a drink? And it's like, oh, that's intriguing. It's pink, you know, whatever. And they get their answer. Right. But it's like, oh, I want to know how that's made, because I want to try it. And so that essentially we Started to think about, well, it actually brought up some really good questions for us internally of like, well, how the hell do we make people want to learn more? Like what, what do they want to learn? Post that information. I used Google Search Console a lot to look at like queries that we were showing up for, you know, and trying to figure out what, what are people searching on that we're actually showing up for and to at least start there, you know, and we, we looked at a variety of, of topics and ultimately ended up just coming down to like a goal post and saying what are the ones that are the most important for us to where, where we're losing traffic to our site that actually ended up driving us pipeline. So looking at the data and saying, okay, what, what search keywords and things like that did people come in off of? And then we, you know, and we actually also looked at our paid search data too. We actually looked at our paid search too to see, you know, what were, what were some of the queries that had the most benefit to us. And from there we, we just whittled it down to what are our like 20 queries that we want to show up for that we ultimately want people to look for more information. And we actually ended up seeing our branded search traffic actually increased. So we saw our branded traffic increase. And, and so we ended up saying, okay, well, what's the correlation? You know, let's see if there's a correlation between where, when it started to increase or when it increases to when we release certain information, when we make big changes to content that we have. When, you know, when I, when we put out like a LinkedIn ad campaign or something like that, what is the correlation that we're seeing there? Because less and less people are clicking and they're doing more searching. We also like, look at, you know, what is the referral traffic from AI platforms as well, to look at, you know, which platforms are driving the most. And you know, there's big differences between like how ChatGPT or perplexity or Gemini, et cetera, answer things. And they all have different ways of going about it. So we kind of distill that information down into what are. Is our referral traffic, what is Google Search Console saying from the query perspective that we should be focusing on and then what's driving ultimately Pipeline for us? What are the, what are the keywords and stuff that are driving? And then we focused on 20 to start and we essentially said, okay, we're going to alter the content we already have. Don't create more Content. Don't. Don't do that. I'll. Yeah, I could go on all day about that. Don't create more content, but go into the content you already have and alter it. Assuming you have some. Assuming you have some content in the first place. Yes. Assuming you have content in the first place. Yes. I mean, if you already have a plethora of content. That's what I'm saying. If you don't have any content. Well, yeah, let's work on that. You've got other problems. Yeah, yeah. But if you have the content and you just want to show up, alter it so that it can be. And you also have to think about how an AI platform, you know, actually ingests this information. So, you know, going into bulleted information, making sure you have an LMS TXT file, you know, making sure that you have schema data on your pages. You know, there's like, a variety of things that you need to make sure of, but ultimately, when we saw this crocodile, I had a heart attack like everybody else. And crocodiles are scary. Yeah, they're scary. You know, there were five little monkeys and there's no more five little monkeys. So. Swinging from the tree. Just saying. I don't know if you guys have ever heard that song. Maybe I'm the only one at home. So, you know, five little monkeys swinging from the tree. I know where you're coming from. You're not alone. So, yeah, that's, you know, that's where we're at. And I think. I think the crocodile isn't as scary now. Now that we know how to. How to attack the crocodile. Yeah. What it means and what to do about it. Yeah, I do remember. You're right, though. When it first started happening, there was a lot of the closest thing to panic I think I've seen heard in the SEO industry. Yeah. I mean, like, the panic across everybody's eyes when the data started showing. And honestly, I didn't have answers, you know, so it's like the hardest thing, too, when everybody's panicking and you're like, I don't have any answers for you right now. Let me figure out what we have to do, you know? And honestly, like, we didn't have all the answers until well into the crocodile mouth, you know, so. Yeah, it's been. It's been a journey. Been a journey. Right. So in listening to you, Adriana, you know, it's clear that some of the metrics we've been using and KPIs that we've been using for the past Number of years don't make sense anymore or could be misleading. Sure. Because we don't, we don't want more crocodiles. What are some of the KPIs that you're using now or that you're recommending people use? When it, when it looks at, I guess SEO, but even more broadly, based on your previous answers, I have a guess for one of them. But what have you got? What are the KPIs you're following now or tracking? Yeah. So before all of this, right, you would kind of look at your, your page views, your MQLs, your, you know, potentially time on site and things like that. But I think I harp on the most, our pipeline influence. So ultimately it doesn't matter if people are on your site if they don't make it to an opportunity, right, to pipeline. So that's the first one. And people will be like, well, how do you directly correlate that? Well, we have to look at, you know, a lot of people look at marketing attribution and they say like last touch type scenarios. Well, our team anyways like has a variety of different methods. So we look at first touch, Last touch. We have like a U shaped model to kind of weight all the touch points that happen within that. And I would say that like when you look at first touch, you need to see what ultimately brought them in. Where, where did they come from? Like from a referrer, you know, what type of search terms did they come in off of if you can gather that information and drive that to pipeline. So we do that from a first touch perspective and look at that from a pipeline influence, influence situation. Now a lot of people say, well I, I get direct a lot like, oh my, my, you know, traffic is direct. How do I, how do I get that? Well, first I'm going to tell you, you have to get a tool that gets way more granular than direct for you. And I know I get, I get frustrated with Google Analytics, so don't start me on that on that train. But, but from there you need, you need to look at, okay, so some, some of them will, you know, even actually Salesforce is catching up on this, right? They'll, they'll actually look at, you know, chatgpt or perplexity. You'll see that as like the referrer that's coming in. But there are tools out there that can help you to distill that information, you know, down to what's driving it. So get that information and then tie that to your opportunities. So you can see that then because this Traffic is coming in after they've already done research, right? They've already gone on the AI platforms, they've already researched, they've done this stuff, they land on your website, they don't really need to answer much more than what they already have gotten. So they're a little bit more middle to bottom funnel when they come in now. So I look at how many pages within their visit are they viewing? Are they at all or are they engaged? You know, like what are they looking at? And a lot of times actually our, our traffic on our doc site and like our documentation went up because they're middle bottom now. So now they're looking at more of that technical content. And we've actually switched our strategy to having more like short clips of demos available on the site, more case studies which are always valuable documentation pages and being more technical and you know, use cases and looking at like how are people actually utilizing the product? Not like what we're offering, but what is the end outcome that you're trying to solve for. And so that is, I look at engaged visits and that's kind of broken out into, you know, how many pages within their session so that we have a benchmark and then what is the, the depth or time on those pages and we can look at scroll depth as well. Like are they actually reading the pages or are they just clicking around, etc. So that's kind of the second metric. So pipeline engaged sessions and kind of depth of reading and then what's the quality of that traffic that's coming in? So we look at and we rank the people that come in and convert with us and we have like high intent form submissions, we have score outs as we like to call them. And then we have like outreach, you know, outreach. I can't even, my brain's not thinking right now. But like people that come in from our outbound outreach and things of that nature, right? And the high intent form submissions, they, we look at that on a scale of 1 to 5 and we rank them and we, we say okay, how close to our ICP do those people fit? And, and we look at that over time, you know, what percentage of the people that are coming in actually fit our icp. We also do this on people that don't convert with us. So we have a variety of deanonymization tools on our site to be able to dnm de anonymize the folks that are coming. And then we rank those people as well. And we look at that over time too. To say like, are we Hitting the right queries are the people that are coming in. They may be the right Persona, but maybe it's not the right team within the, the company that we need to go after things of that nature. So it's a lot of learning for us and it's a lot of shifting quickly too. So we do like six week sprints essentially of changes and it's important to look at it on a regular basis. And it's hard when you are changing so often, but the market is changing so often, so you have to be able to adapt. And you know, I even say the same. Yeah, yeah. When we're hiring, I'm not looking for necessarily a skill set. I'm looking for the ability to adapt and change quickly and fitting in with the team more so than anything because guess what, I don't know everything that's going to come out in six months, nor does the next person. And they can try to convince me on that interview as much as they want, but they don't know. Good luck. Yeah, so it's, it's a matter of if people can change with the times. And so to go Back to the KPIs, you know, I would just recommend making sure pipeline is, you know, pipeline's my biggest thing. You know, I, I've said it probably how many times? I mean, how about drink every time Adriana says pipeline, but you know, and then, and then looking at page, you know, the, the depth in which they're researching and then from, from there looking at the conversion quality and kind of ranking that to see like where you're going and what, what's coming in. So yeah, I, I definitely was not surprised with the pipeline one. Adriana, I'll, I'll drink because I said it. But, but the engage visit, I engage visits I think is an awesome one and how you defined it as cool. And then yeah, we've covered on a couple previous podcasts the quality over quantity, so definitely aligned on that one as well. And Adriana, you referenced a couple things separately that actually are related to the crocodile that I want to call out for folks who don't do this all day, every day. But at one point you mentioned, hey, our branded traffic is going up. At another point you mentioned, hey, our direct traffic is going up. What's up with that? At the same time as this weird crocodile is happening, those things are not disconnected and they're almost to the point of being normal for that period of time in the industry. So if, if you find the crocodile really scary, you can take some solace in the fact that those direct and branded queries are typically pretty valuable ones. Yeah, yeah. And a lot, you know, people are like, well, that's great, but how the hell did they get here? It's like this, you know, this unknown. And you know, when, when people have unknowns, they get nervous. You know, it, you know, you want to have predictable, forecastable information, you know, at your fingertips. And. Yeah, I can riff on that. You're giving me a good segue because I want to riff on some of the confusion and the unknown in this industry. Yeah. And it's. I'm going to call this question pick. Pick your own acronym. So we could be talking about geogenerative engine optimization. We could be talking about answer engine optimization, aeo. We could be talking about large language model. Lmmo, you get the idea. There's a lot of them. They all seem to refer to versions of the same thing. And meanwhile, one of my, one of the folks I follow and have for years, Mr. Rand Fishkin, his take on it is, you know what? We've already got a perfectly good acronym for this. It's SEO. It just means Search Everywhere optimization. You know, that, that was kind of an argument about a year ago on LinkedIn or so. So in this acronym soup of SEO and AI and everything in between, where, where do you land? Do you have a favorite? And are we just over complicating this entire conversation? We're over complicating it, Brian. I'm glad she picked that one. Would we be marketers if we didn't have an acronym? I'm just saying that's fair. That's fair. I mean, and I swear, every company that I go into has their own set of internal acronyms that take like six months to learn as well. So it's not just out, you know, verbiage that's used in the market. It's also internal, too. But yeah, I. So internally, you know, like I've been using aeo. However, I will say that SEO is definitely just the blanket term. Right. You're searching. Ultimately, yes. It's a search engine. You are searching for an answer in some way, shape or form. And so I don't think it really needs to change. Now, internally, the reason we changed it is because it was the, when we were communicating about it is almost to just say there was the old method of tracking information and now there's this new method and one more, one more blanket statement talking about it. We want to make sure that everybody's putting their new hat on and not thinking about all the old methods and things like that and saying, just think outside the box for a hot second. And. And it gets people to almost switch their brain from, okay, we're gonna do these sets of things to, okay, let's think outside the box. And there is no set things that we do anymore. And think outside the box. And I actually think I a good thing because it gets you to actually, really, truly think. Know your product, like, know your customers, know what they're actually trying to get to. And it's made us think even harder than we ever have in the past. So in terms of acronym soup, I think it's just the world we live in, and we always have acronyms, but it's a PETA if you know that acronym. There's mine that I'm gonna throw in there today. I'm familiar with a taco, but that's a totally different conversation. So, you know, it's. I would say that SEO. I'm. I'm right there with them. You know, SEO is where it's at. And, you know, you can use different acronyms to do different things and communicate what you're talking about in this new world, but ultimately, I think it just goes right back. It is useful for signaling to folks in the room who've heard the same one for 10 years. That's something. There's something a little different this time to pay attention to and pull up your socks and start listening harder. Yeah, yeah. And do you guys. What do you guys refer to it as within your. It's funny when you referenced how the acronyms change with the organization you go to. That's what happens when we go to a new client site. We'll start speaking one language and they'll have a different one. And you're like, well, we're your agency. We're just going to adopt however you talk about it. So you can call it a lead, you can call it an opportunity, you can call it this or that or the other thing. As an aside, I will say that I think that will, for me, will be a sign when the marketing industry is all grown up, is when we stop recreating the language for things that are mostly the same most of the time. I don't think plumbers and carpenters have this problem. A 2x4 is usually a 2x4. No, we're calling it something different today. Agreed. I think that would be quite confusing for the person that's hammering the nail. Exactly. What about you, Brendan? I mean, I agree with Brian. I mean, I think most of the Time. It's what the client calls it. Although I am surprised quite often the client calls them different things internally from each other. So that's another challenge. But. But, yeah, I tend to go with and do what they're doing just because it's easier for us to adapt than them in many instances. But I think, to Brian's point on the SEO term, I think going in with SEO, people still tend to think the older side of that. So it does help to have something at least a bit different when you're talking about it today. And then you have to. You have to think about what is going to bring everybody in the room together and on the same page. And regardless of what the term is that they use, ultimately, you just need to be talking the same language. You know, you don't want to throw a grenade in the middle of the room unless you intend to throw a grenade in the middle of the room. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I throw a lot of grenades, Brian. I know. It's one of the reasons I like you. There's a lot of grenades being thrown. We're good. Yeah. I think we could go on a lot longer here, as is the norm, it seems, with many episodes. But I might have to bring this back to our. Our favorite question. Adriana, if there's anything that there's, you know, we talked about marketing have a lot. Having a lot of acronyms and creating a new acronym. Well, I've got one. Marketing also has a lot of myths, and there seems to be a new one on a regular basis. So we're going to hit you with our favorite question. Again, we haven't done a poll of guests to find out if anyone likes this question, but it's our podcast, so we're going to ask it anyway. And because we've talked a lot about SEO and I'm going to use the Rand Fishkin's definition of SEO for this question. But if there's anything, a myth, something that bugs you, gets under your skin, that you just want to set the record straight on when it comes to SEO, you can take and interpret SEO as you wish here. What is the myth that you want to set everyone straight on today? I think you heard it earlier today, so I'm going to repeat it. That's okay. You do not need to create more content to have better SEO. You. You do not. And I know people are going to be like, well, everybody tells me to create all of this extra content, like for different keywords and this and that. And if you just like, automate all these blog Posts, etc, like that did work at one point. I, I'm gonna. Yes, it did work at one point. A lot of these things did work briefly at one point in previous. But I'm gonna say, say that you do not need to create more content unless you don't have any. Brian said earlier, you need to create more content, but don't create more content. Take the content that you already have. Structure it so that when somebody's reading it, they have the who, what, where, why, when, how, etc nicely outlined. And that's the same way that the lens are going to read it as well, digest it and spit it out to the person that's searching for them. So you still, you just have to be, get rid of the fluff, get rid of the, you know, buzzy acronym terms and buzzwords and all that stuff and just get down to the point, like if somebody says, why should I buy your product? Well, here you go, you know, and, and don't beat around the bush. And it's causing a lot of people to actually try to figure out and distill down. What do I say? Like what, what do I. If I had only, you know, and it's a good exercise actually to do with your team. If I had 120 characters, what would I say? What would I say? You know, and then making sure that everything wraps around back to that north star of that 120 word description. And ultimately that's how. And it kind of reminds me of like pillar content, you know, Brian, remember when we used to remember those pages, Pillar pages. Find what your pillar is and wrap all that content around it and make sure though that it is structured in a way that an LLM can read it. Because an LLM is different than a search engine and it ultimately likes to scan. It likes to scan. So still, still going back to your fundamentals of H1s, H2s, H3s, how made to help humans scan in the first place in print. Oh, interesting. So wait, we were doing that and now we have to do it for an AI bot. He's trying to be like kind of like human. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, I, I'm probably gonna get eaten alive for saying, you know, don't make more content because there are a ton of people out there that are saying to do it, but don't, don't do it. Structure your content, you know, make it readable, make it digestible quickly, fast. I mean, this is starting to sound like I'm going over right now. So clearly I'm really bad at this but quality versus quantity argument. I quite. I like it a lot. Yep. Yep. So that's. That's what I recommend. And that's my Mythbuster for today. And to be clear, there's no unicorns were harmed in any of this. None. Okay. None. I will bring us home because I can tell. I've got about nine more things I want to ask you about, and we. We're not going to do that in this episode, so we might have to do another one at a later date. But I want to say on behalf of the. The. The whole crew here, thank you for taking time. If you're. If you're running that whole team and that whole situation that we described off the top at Snow Cloud, you probably have busy days. So we appreciate you taking the time to spend some of it with us and bust some myths and share where things are at and where they aren't at with this crazy world of SEO. So thanks so much. Absolutely. Only for you guys. Only for you guys. Out. Cheers. Hey, folks, if you like that episode, you won't believe the next one, so don't forget to subscribe on your favorite platform and you won't miss out. Or if you've got an idea we haven't thought of yet, hit us up in the comments. We'll cover that, too.