Humour in B2B Marketing?

Speaker A: Your B2B Marketing Pint is the podcast for B2B technology marketers who want to sharpen their competitive edge. Joined by other marketing veterans, your hosts Brian o' Grady and Brendan Ziolo share expertise on what works today and why. Grab a cold pint of hot takes on branding, content marketing, demand generation and more. Served with a side of sarcasm.

Speaker B: Attention, attention marketers. It's time for B2B marketing pint. Put the latte down, Brendan. Who are we talking to today?

Speaker A: Well, it's my pleasure to introduce today's guest, who is Jim Shields. He spent, uh, let's just say the last few years. I won't, uh, embarrass him with the number here. Proving that funny and serious aren't mutually exclusive in B2B. Sounds intriguing. He was the creative force behind Restricted Intelligence, the world's first sitcom about cybersecurity, and the award winning drama series the Inside Man. We're not talking Hollywood here. We're talking B2B marketing. Trust me. Jim built Twist and Shout Communications into a globally recognized storytelling powerhouse before it was acquired. And now he's a freelance for hire everyone. I actually had the pleasure of collaborating with Jim on a series called the New Guy for Alcatel Lucent back in the day. Uh, so I've seen firsthand how this all comes together and I was super excited when Jim and I connected recently or reconnected recently and thought he'd be great, uh, to join us on the podcast and walk us through all of that. Jim, how much did I screw up your bio there?

Speaker C: No, that's great. I'm going to keep that one for future reference. I like it.

Speaker A: All right. My gift, My gift to you.

Speaker C: Thank you. I like the powerhouse bit. That'll go

Speaker A: perfect. Uh, and as tradition, uh, as tradition holds. Ah, Jim, hopefully, uh, you brought something to drink with you and could you share what you're drinking?

Speaker C: Sure, yeah. You warned me about this, so I picked a beer that I really like. This is, um, a beer from a region in the UK called Cornwall. I don't know if you know the uk, but it's at the bottom, the bit that looks like a foot sticking out into the Irish Sea. Um, basically this is a. I have no. I'm going to open it now because I'm thirsty. This is, it's, it's a pale ale. It's 4, uh,.2% alcohol by volume and it's. So it's a light drink. You can drink this all night and still remember who you are by the end of it.

Speaker A: So, see, I thought he was gonna go. Brian with you can drink this all night and be drunk just like the other ones.

Speaker C: You'll be drunk enough. It keeps you at a steady, happy place. I would say so.

Speaker A: Perfect.

Speaker C: Holding it up to the mic. Here's where I pour pale ale into my laptop. Hold on, Brendan.

Speaker B: Jim. Jim's gone for it. So what are you drinking?

Speaker A: Yes, well, you know, no one will be surprised when I show you that I already poured mine again. I always.

Speaker C: Man, I like it.

Speaker A: No, I try. But you know, somewhat in honor of Jim. Although I'm probably mixing up countries here a bit, but I've had a lot.

Speaker C: I'm from Ivy Sex Faction.

Speaker A: Oh, there we go. So perfect. Yeah, so I'm drinking a Guinness. I did put it in the properly branded glass though, so I think opening it early was okay. Uh, and once again, this is the non alcohol variety since I don't actually drink beer. I don't know if I shared that with you, Jim. I don't.

Speaker C: I did not know. I do.

Speaker A: I'm on an experiment of, uh, what's Brian drinking?

Speaker C: Do we know what, Brian?

Speaker A: Yeah, why don't you share?

Speaker B: Uh, we're going to Germany today.

Speaker C: This is a. Oh, Dab Lager. Right, there we go.

Speaker B: Uh, as far as I can tell, it's hard to go wrong when you use beer and the word Germany in the same sentence.

Speaker C: Well, yeah, the beer favorite of football, uh, hooligans the world over. Yeah, okay. Cannablager.

Speaker A: All right, well, we may be off to a great start and have probably insulted a few different nationalities already on this call. Apologies to all our listeners, it was not intentional, but you know, we're now drinking beer, so who knows what else will happen today. Uh, cheers. Yeah, see, here we go. No end today.

Speaker C: Cheers in there. Mhm.

Speaker A: Well, why don't we start it off on a good foot, Brian, and you kick us off rather than me butcher the first question.

Speaker B: I'm into it. I've wet my whistle. I've got my German lager and we have questions, Jim, So I hope you're ready.

Speaker C: I'm ready. Like a coiled spring.

Speaker B: Fantastic. So here's the first one, which is, I happen to be a fan of comedy, but like you, I am also trapped in a B2B world. Uh, which maybe, maybe makes that a little more difficult. Now, I know when anybody launches their, their brand sparkly new B2B marketing program, somebody will say, we should have a data sheet. Everyone around the table will nod. Somebody else will say, oh, at a case Study, they love them, some case studies. And everybody will nod. And then the young, um, Alpha, terrible, the scary person in the room will say, have you considered an explainer video? And everyone go, ooh, an explainer video. And then a guy like the whiteboard kind. Yeah, exactly. But then a guy like you shows up. And I don't know how the rest of this story goes because it's so rare in my experience in B2B marketing, but a guy like you shows up and says, oh, I've got a big shiny idea. We should have a whole scripted video sitcom series about something B2B marketing related. How the heck do you make that case around a boardroom table?

Speaker C: Well, one thing I like to point out is that especially in tech and um, um, for me it was it and telecommunications. So if you look at the web pages of the top five wholesale cellular communications providers, like, you know, the, the heavy lifters in the industry, they generally look the same kinda. You know, there's kind of a networky matrixy background and there's kind of this, a couple of smiling people from different continents, you know, because they, they're inclusive and you know, and, and it's just, it's hard to differentiate. It's very difficult to make it feel like somebody is Talking to you, Mr. Customer, like directly and personally. And so once you start to build that around, because they are, they feel comfortable in that space. Yeah. So I get, you know, you'll get questions like, oh, that sounds risky, you know, sounds expensive and risky, which is worse. You know, how do we fit the product in? Is another thing that I get. Uh, um, they're really worried about it making them look silly or worse still offending somebody. So it's quite a mountain to climb. But what you're not, you're not really selling information at that point because film and video is the wrong medium for pure information. You know, it's a time based medium so you can't like, well, you can scroll back and dig for things, but it's a terrible format to do that. It's a great way to make people feel things. And actually one thing I've learned is that if you can make somebody feel something and whether that's, you know, an affinity because you made them laugh or you know, empathy because it's dramatic, uh, and they're into it and they like the characters and they feel seen, you know, I think that they will, they will, it will fix a lot of the other communications issues. I always say that things like uh, to some extent specification and price sort of take a back seat when somebody has already fallen in love with the idea. Uh, look at that. If you look at how we buy cars, I don't know what you drive, but in a family situation, you should have a minivan because they're cheap to run. You, uh, know where I'm headed with this. You know, they're cheap to fix, they're cheap to buy, they're cheap to insure. The suv, on the other hand, the sports utility vehicle that's, you know, very sexy and can climb up a mountain and. Not that you ever need it to. You know, that's what you end up buying. Because marketing works, and it's the story we buy, not the item. Uh, and I think that's my. I rest my case on that one. So I just hammer those things. Uh, and it's not. It's kind of. Once it's proven, it's all in. You know, if you've got a few case studies to talk about what happened with people than, uh, with other companies, and, uh, they feel. They just want to know they're not the ones trying out for the first time.

Speaker B: Wow. Okay. I can't really argue with that. I'd love to. That's kind of what we're here to do. I will say, though, that my minivan also came with a golden retriever and a house in suburbia and three children. So I got the full package.

Speaker C: Oh, you had the. Yeah, you had the platinum package. Well done.

Speaker B: Exactly. Thank you. But on B2B, marketing pint, I would be a fool not to point out that there's this old, uh, marketing aphorism that says if you. If you haven't marketed beer and you haven't marketed automobiles, you haven't marketed anything. And the argument for that is 9 out of 10 people can't tell the difference between any kind of beer. It's all about the label, which I think is similar to what you're saying. Creating an emotional story.

Speaker C: It's the story. There's a, you know, in tribute, pale ale from, um, an independent brewery in Saint Austell Brewery down in Cornwall. It's. It's a kind of a pagan area in some respects. It's got, you know, it's got history. It's got goblins. It's like there'll be beasties here on the map. You know, it's. It's got tons of rich history. And you know, it. That you drink the beer because you feel like you're connecting to your ancestors. You know, let's go there. And I think I don't think B2B marketers don't have a content problem. Like if you're, if you know, you, if you're in representing a big brand, uh, especially in something like tech, they don't have a content problem. They have the 150 slide PowerPoint which is the cut down version that they're just going to run you past so that you understand the product. That's not the problem. They've got content, what they have is an attention problem. And uh, in a noisy marketplace that getting somebody's attention is incredibly hard. With a data driven approach, with an information driven approach. Makes sense. It's hard.

Speaker A: So uh, as I mentioned in the bio, Jim, you and I had the pleasure of working together. At least I had the pleasure of working with you. We won't tell our listeners if it's mutual, uh, the other way. But you know, the new guy turned into what was probably one of the biggest marketing successes at the company thanks to you and the team and some good selling internally to get it approved.

Speaker C: Oh, well done you.

Speaker A: I think one of the things that really bode well for it was it was totally unexpected from Alcatel Lucent at the time. So word started to spread, people wanted to check it out, that type of thing. But it was also cool because it led with story and character, uh, and comedy as well. Right. So there were definitely attributes. So how do you figure out what kind of story and character will resonate with, with a B2B audience and you know, how do you know you found the right one? Because I'm assuming, you know, as you develop the new guy. That wasn't the only option. There were multiple.

Speaker C: No, we always put three in. We have the rule of three. They have the first one, that's the safe one. And if at the time we need the cash flow, we'll probably sell for that as well. There's the middle one, which is a good idea, strong idea. It's brave, but not too brave. And then there's the third one which will probably get you fired. Uh, and so you know, it's that needle swings various ways. I honestly, I honestly think this one was probably between the middle and the last one. I think it might have been the brave one because again it costs more money to make tv. And what we're talking, let's not make any mistake. We're not talking about corporate communications here. We're talking about sponsored content as if it were tv. You could put the new guy in front of any streaming channel and they'd be like, yeah, that's, that's something we would broadcast if it was a 28 minute program. Um, and I think that the issue really is, uh, how do you find the story? You look at the person that the company is selling to or influencing and, um, put that character at the center of the story. Because what you want is for that, um, chief information officer to feel like they've been seen. And if the jokes are in jokes, it's so great. It's a great way to, um, connect with them and bypass everything. All the competition, the Rottweiler at the desk, you know, all of that, that you can bypass all of that with a connection. I'll give you a great example. In a domestic world, if you've been to a wedding, uh, where there's been a best man speech, and they may not be the best orator in the world, they may have written a ton of notes and they're fumbling through them and all of that, but in the room on that day when you're on the verge of tears anyway, you know, this person is so relevant and connected to everybody in the room. Anything they say is hilarious. Anything, Anything they say, they're witty, they are insightful, they're empathetic, it's romantic. Uh, all of those things come to play because of who they are and how well they know the room. You're using the same set of rules in B2B marketing when you're talking to the target, for want of a better word, within an organization who you'd like to impress or connect with. Uh, and that means that you have to be that best man speech. You have to know about the family moments. And you go, what are the things that, you know, we all kind of know about the bride and we all kind of know about the groom, and it's usually about the groom room, let's face it. And so, and so that's why we're like, oh, yeah, Barry's always like that. Oh my goodness, I remember that weekend. Or whatever. You know, that's what we're doing. We're making it familiar. We are, we're looking at what is risky or frustrating about their world. And that's our story. So we already have two elements. It's the story and the characters, or at least one of the characters. And there are other characters. And then the third part of any story is the moral of the tale. What is the moral of the tale is that we have a solution that can help you fix all this. And that's the moral of the tale. So that's how it all lands for me. Does that make sense?

Speaker B: I'm now suspicious that, uh, best man speeches in the UK are way superior to the ones I've been part of. You're gonna have to come to one in the uk. That's a great example, though. That one's. That one sticks. I want to follow up on the humor piece, uh, with Barry the best man, maybe, which is, uh, if you go back, if you bring Barry the best man back to the boardroom table. And Barry. Barry's pitching, uh, his big show just

Speaker C: after the reception, so he's in great shape.

Speaker B: And, uh, he's pitching his big comedic idea. I see. Or at least in my experience, there's two big hurdles. One we talked about off the top, which is how do you. How do you get people to say yes to that in the first place? Which is a big challenge. Um, but secondly, perhaps in my experience, this is even greater risk, is there's usually somebody in legal or in the leadership team who, if it gets the green light, uh, then begins to sand off all of the edges and remove all of the comedy line by line, piece by piece, uh, item by item, through production. And you're still maybe basking in the glow of getting this crazy idea greenlit. But as you go, it's slowly being distilled, watered down, and turned into nothing. How do you prevent that from happening? How do you prevent a giant brand with a lot of rules from saying, that's cute, Jim, but here's how we do things here?

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, and that is where managing the customer relationship comes in. And have spent decades crafting an approach that really helps them understand that, uh, this isn't a traditional way to communicate with customers. This will cut through. And there is a place for all of those things that they're talking about, for data sheets and for case studies and all of that. There is a place for that. It's not in this film or series because you're using. It's a different tool. People go, oh, uh, it's a video. No, it's not. It's not a video. You don't go, I'm going to sit down tonight with a bottle of wine and watch a video. You're not. You're going to watch a film or a TV series, your favorite one. It's a different product, and it does a different job. And I developed this idea about the pyramid of, uh, communication, where the first contact is the bit that we work on. It's the emotional bit. If you lead with 150 slides, that's a tough sell because what you're really asking for is two hours of their time. And, um, good luck with that, you know, but if you're just saying, listen, this is transactional. If you give me five minutes for an episode or 10 minutes, I will entertain you about your world in some way, that's the transaction. So give me the time, I will make you smile. And that's how it's going to do while you're eating your sandwich at your desk or however you want to do it. This is the transaction. It is. And, um, what's great about that is when it's manageable in bite sized pieces, which is why we do episodes, we make it episodic. We're able to get more bandwidth across the line than a two hour pitch session with specs and charts and wiring diagrams and all of those things. And that's. It's a different animal. It's really important. The truth is our defense. If it's accurate, it's justifiable. Um, we're framing the humorous side of it as a delivery mechanism for serious messages. Don't confuse it with being silly or disrespectful. That's just entertainment as a carrier for the message that you need about the brand. Uh, and that's really a lot of the building blocks of how we do this. The thing you mentioned earlier about watering it down, in some ways, um, watered down comedy, uh, isn't safe. It's just ineffective. It just doesn't work. It just won't work. It's as simple as that. Um, you can really crash the plane by not flying fast enough off the ground to clear the trees, if you know what I mean.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Go for it or don't go for it.

Speaker C: Yeah, go or don't go. And that is an understanding that is built in from the beginning at the meetings and the presentation, the pitch meeting at the very beginning. Uh, and I think, uh, making them feel that the worst thing we can do is the average thing is the bare minimum, that's the worst thing they can do. And they know it. Deep down, they know they do. And luckily we built up enough, uh, experience doing this many times that the risks are minimized, but the benefits are, as you know, quite rich. So, you know, that's brilliant.

Speaker B: The next thing you're going to say that B2B marketers are actually all human beings at heart and we all find I am.

Speaker C: Oh, well, well, that's, I'm going to save that for later because that is the, the big revelation is that B2B marketing is different than consumer marketing and it, and it shouldn't be. It's just a pathway like any other and it starts at the same spot with a human being.

Speaker A: So I love uh, I love some of the, the tips and insights you're bringing here, Jim, with you know, the, as how you find your character, you know, the problem of how you find your story. Yeah, the tip, the tip of the pyramid or the tip of the iceberg as being where you want to engage, not, not lead with the base or the 150 slide deck. I mean that all.

Speaker C: There's several makes a ton of sense

Speaker A: to me and I think it would make a ton of sense to the audience as well. But at some point, you know, in B2B, you know, we need to convert, we need to deliver pipeline and we need to deliver some messages around the product. Hm. So when you're, when you're going through the creative process here to build out one of these series, are you starting with the story and figuring out how to weave the value prop in? Does the value prop sit front and center and you work around that. Kind of walk us through how you connect the dots.

Speaker C: Well, I'm really glad you said value proposition and not product because the product has got no place in this which will horrify certain, uh, product marketers. But the, the um, the value proposition is the story because let's take a really good example with the new guy series. One of the issues in the industry was at the time, and probably still is is vendor lock in like and um, what with, you know, we see this in consumer as well with Apple, you know, you buy, you buy an Apple cable, It's you know, 50 bucks and you buy one from Temu and it's 2 bucks. And you know, guess what? They both kind of work, you know. So with this idea of vendor lock in, we wrote a thread into the story that this new guy was from a smaller, more agile company and that the big stodgy company acquired that company and was trying to impose its ways upon the small nimble team. Uh, and through those we could cherry pick the really with laser precision, we could cherry pick the issues that the company was having. And this was through, you know, there are lots of meetings where I got to talk to, you know, marketing people as well as salespeople as well. I always try to talk to someone who's had first contact with a customer. What, you know, they hear day to day stories. I go, what is your lived experience? I want to know, tell me what These people care about what keeps them up at night. Uh, and I take all of that and we go, you know, Rob, my, uh, writer, uh, partner, and I go off into the cave and it all comes out. Uh, and then we have the lovely what if? Session. Because once people. The workshop to get the story down is such an important part of the process because the marketers are involved. We're scribbling all over the wall. There's lines connecting things. It looks like a murder scene inquiry. You know, we're finding, uh, where the story is, and it's just as good as any other story. If somebody's. If there's friction, if there's grit in this story somewhere, it's interesting. If people get upset or frustrated, if people get fired. Get fired. Yeah. Uh, it all, you know, it happens. And there are echelons within the customers, companies that the. The CIO will be familiar with. They'll. There's always some guy who's on customer support, and it's just like rattling out a script, you know, and they may hate that, but it's just how it's done, you know? So we look at all of the facets of the customer experience for them and go, how can we make that guy go, oh, man, finally somebody gets me? And that's my goal, is to do that. And once you've got that, you can put anything else down it except a product or a logo, because this is sponsored by the brand. If you talk to us, these are our. What you're saying is in real shorthand, you're saying, these are our values. These are what we care about. And we made this.

Speaker A: And I think what was cool when we did the new guy, Jim, was we weaved in product and solution and other material as an afterthought. Right. We led with this to your tip of the. And then we drilled down. And I think that was what was really effective in driving this interest into. Into something more on the demand side. And also, I think it did help sell it internally. Right? Because then we were like, okay, wait, we're not talking product here, but look at all the things we're connecting it to further down. So I think it's, you know, it's not one piece of content that will never be seen. There's not one piece of content that you never see anything else. It's a whole building block and structure that needs to be thought through.

Speaker C: Do you remember we interviewed a couple of executives, uh, to my shame, I can't remember their names, but. But actually, they talked about the real World thing and related to the inside man, we had a little behind the scenes documentary thing. That's other content. If you look at the pyramid, that's the next layer down.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was one. I think I was one of those suckers you conned in. I remember, I still remember to this day. I had my makeup done. It was very exciting.

Speaker C: But yeah, going on around here, I'm

Speaker A: not going to lie, I think I might have had a bit of more hair than two. But yeah, the behind the scenes was another great way. That's another good point on how you could connect, uh, additional message and messages here. Sorry, Brian, we're going down a trip down memory lane here. Yeah.

Speaker C: So down a rabbit hole.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to, uh, do you want to ask our favorite question of the, of the session?

Speaker B: I do. Thank you, Brendan and Jim, before I do so buckle up, you're going to get, you're going to get the B2B marketing pint. Classic question in a moment.

Speaker C: M. Okay, ready?

Speaker B: But before I do that, I want to point out, I think you just echoed in your response to Brendan's question there, uh, the same philosophy that was behind the invention of the soap opera on radio, which was, hey, we're going to create these dramas people want to listen to and in between we're going to have commercials and get our people

Speaker C: that way behind about their lives and they can relate to it. You've already got their attention. You've opened up a channel of communication and now we're just going to poke a little offer down there. Yeah.

Speaker B: Very cool.

Speaker A: And aren't they called soap operas because of the company that sponsored them?

Speaker B: The first

Speaker C: gamble and those people, if

Speaker B: that company still exists, we can be bought. We're looking for a sponsor and just putting that out, it should probably be a beer sponsor, but if, you know, sometimes after beer too.

Speaker A: Uh, congratulations, Brian. We waited till almost the 20 some minute mark before we made our first plug sponsorship. We normally, we normally hit much, uh, earlier when we're talking beer, Jim. So yeah, we held back today.

Speaker C: Brilliant.

Speaker B: All right, Jim, it's uh, time to get serious about not being serious.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, this is, this is the, uh, perennial favorite. Well, favorite of ours. I don't know if it's the favorite of our guests or not. Brennan, perennial favorite question on B2B marketing pipe. There's people listening right now who are in your space. There's people listening right now who are outside of your space. This is your chance. We've given you, if you excuse the pun, a Soapbox. And this is your opportunity to burst some bubbles, to destroy some myths, to get rid of them. Because there's a lot of baloney out there about humor in B2B marketing. And you have an opportunity right now to burst the biggest bubble, destroy a myth. What's the one that makes you the most angry and makes you grit your teeth when you bump into it incessantly that you'd like to get rid of today?

Speaker C: Okay, well, the biggest myth I can talk about, and I hinted at it earlier, is the biggest m myth in B2B is that the audience stops being human when they get to work. As simple as that. Because, you know, we love a good story. And, you know, if you make it things that people get bogged down with, things like the length of the video, for example, the length of the episode or the film or whatever it might be. I always say that the length isn't terrible. It's the fact that the story is crap that's the problem. Do you feel it's too long? And I want to make things that you can't let go.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's a problem.

Speaker C: Yeah. I'm proud to say that a lot of the content I make, there are true fans out there, uh, especially with things like restricted intelligence and the inside man. I know the new guy had fans, and people watched the whole series, and what they do is they chase the IT guy down the corridor to go, when's the next episode coming out? I need to know. Nobody does that with security, with cybersecurity, uh, training. Nobody. Yeah. So to have achieved that means that the theory holds for me, uh, that if you make it compelling enough and fascinating enough and it kind of relates to where you work a little bit, and you think, yeah, this I care. Now you're making people care. Whereas if you bombard them with the 150 slides, they kind of don't care. You're asking a lot of them. You will make them want to get involved. With the 150 slides.

Speaker B: It's clear you're maintaining your position that inside these glass towers with the logos, those things are full of real, living, breathing human beings.

Speaker C: Yeah. And they. However, you might argue that this is more analytical than a B2C pitch, they're going to make an emotional connection with it. They're going to have some kind of. Well, I don't know if it's close. I just feel good about these guys. I just feel. Feel like they have the right idea. This is innovative. Therefore, they will be innovative for us. You know, there's a lot of that by attachment sort of values going on there. And communicating values is hard because most of us have read a mission statement and that doesn't make any sense. You know, it's just flatlines, uh, because it was a committee of 10 people that wrote the mission statement and they all needed their department in there. So now it's half a page long and it's, you're done. Put a fork in it, you know, read.

Speaker B: Agreed. One of my web Heroes, uh, Jerry McGovern, used to say that the single worst way to design a website was to get 10 smart people around the table with lattes. And, uh, they're also writing mission statements when they're not doing websites, of course.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. It's a nightmare. But that is my. That is the biggest myth busting thing. There's also a. There's also a few things that marketers get wrong. Well, you mentioned before about the other team that come in to go, okay, so we're going to need, uh, to talk about overloading. We'll have a script, talk about this feature that we're really proud of. And then I, I have to say, okay, what would the world look like without this feature? And they go, oh, well, it would be like this. And I go, well, we're going to do that. We're not going to show your feature. Uh, why not? Because we want people to see the gap. We don't want. Don't let customers make their own mind up whether they can, you know, use that or not. Don't. That's the heavy lifting part. Just identify with, with the vacancy that is there and make sure and just tell them that you understand the vacancy.

Speaker B: That makes a lot of sense. And I've been, I've been part of so many discussions around marketing tables where people are saying, how do we demonstrate that we understand our audience's pain, that we understand their pain points.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's it.

Speaker B: You just described it.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, two types of people in the world. Those who bring pain and those who take it away. As simple as that. Oh, there's a third type, and they're the ones you don't know.

Speaker B: Making. Making you the ibuprofen of B2B marketing pint, I suppose.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Brendan, where to from here?

Speaker A: Well, I think, unfortunately we're running short on time, so, uh, you know, we're at that time where, where we need to wrap this up. But I do, I do find it fascinating now, Brian, and I'm going to butcher this. Maybe Jim can Clean it up for me afterwards. But we've now had a behavioral scientist and a comedian on our podcast talk about how B2B is just. Is not that different from B2C. So I feel like there's, you know, a behavioral scientist and a comedian walk into a bar type joke here coming up. So, Jim, if you can help, you know, clarify that, clean that up for us. We'll make sure we, uh, we post that, uh, when we make that live. But yeah, I think that parallel is. Is fascinating that two, I would argue probably different. Different types of thinkers highlighting the same myth here. Totally, uh, totally unprompted. So very interesting to be solved.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But, uh, but, Jim, I. I really appreciate your time. Like I said at the outset, it was great to reconnect. I know it's been a few years, but, uh, happy that, uh, you're out for hire now and, uh, hoping we get to work together on some project in the future. But for now, I really appreciate you joining us on the podcast. Uh, great insights, uh, great topic. Uh, and as Brian and I both said when we were prepping for this, you know, hey, this is all about comedy, and we're both big fans of that when it comes to B2B, so. Makes a ton of sense. So really appreciate it, Jim.

Speaker C: All right, well, thank you, gentlemen. You've made this so easy to happen. It feels like we're just in a tavern down the town center.

Speaker A: I was going to say that's the beer talking, Brian. We made it easy.

Speaker C: This is great. Thank you so much. Cheers. And, uh, good luck with the rest of it.

Speaker A: All right, thanks, everyone. Bye.

Speaker B: Hey, folks, if you liked that episode, you won't believe the next one.

Speaker A: So don't forget to subscribe on your Facebook favorite platform, and you won't miss out.

Speaker B: Or if you've got an idea we haven't thought of yet, hit us up in the comments. We'll cover that, too.