Cold Calls, Clay & Claude: Inside the B2B Sales Process at Architecture of Sales | Polish Market Entry with Szymon Dąbrowski & Ewelina Piechota

Szymon Dąbrowski: After the end of the onboarding, m, they knew that this is something that is needed and it's required to enter the new market.

Ewelina Piechota: And have you ever had such situation that clients, I don't know, say, oh, I don't want to work with you. You are strange.

Szymon Dąbrowski: No, it never happened.

Ewelina Piechota: Hi, my name is Evelina. Together with Shimon, we work in Architecture of Sales. What do we do in Architecture of Sales? We help foreign companies enter the Polish market. And that's the topic of today's conversation. Shimon, let's talk about you and your role in Architecture of sales.

Szymon Dąbrowski: So, hello, my name is Shimon Dombrowski. I work as a sales development representative in Architecture of Sales and also as a business development manager. Uh, I'm serving, uh, as an SDR for, uh, our customers and also working as a business development manager. I'm looking for new customers for our company. So basically that's what I'm doing.

Ewelina Piechota: Could you explain, um, how you work with clients? Uh, when a client comes to you, what's the first thing you do?

Szymon Dąbrowski: So the first thing I do after onboarding is what we call the Miro. So I am piecing together the puzzles, uh, from everything the clients share with us in onboarding. So we have many, many questions that we are asking there and we have many, many answers after that. Um, I break into the, into value proposition. The ideal customer, uh, profile and their pain points. What's hurting those buying Personas, uh, what's blocking them? Uh, then I ask myself, uh, which of these value propositions actually heals those pain points? Uh, next I look at the competition. Uh, if it's crowded, uh, and in the Polish market it often is. Uh, I search for unique selling points. Uh, sometimes that makes the client's product stand out. Simple example, a, uh, foreign, uh, invoicing software enters the Polish market. Uh, There are already 10 similar products there. But this client has one unique feature, uh, that solves a very specific problem for CFOs in manufacturing companies. Uh, that's what we are looking for. Uh, that one point of differentiation, the onboarding and Miro process, uh, itself takes one or two days. Uh, but finding those unique selling points, well, sometimes it takes months. Clients often, uh, aren't aware of them, uh, or they are simply never thought about their product that way. And what do you think about it?

Ewelina Piechota: Well, I think it's a long process to understand the client's product. And if we need to sell it in the Polish market, we need to understand the, uh, client's perspective. And of course the Polish Client's perspective also, uh, because, um, when you come into totally new market, first you have to notice what is important here. How, uh, clients looking for new products, uh, in such industry, how they work. And this is what we do, what I do when I work with clients. So I'm the first touch between clients and our foreign company, which we help you talk about. Uh, Miro, about onboarding from your perspective. Shimon, how long does it take to fully understand the project?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Getting into a project, uh, well enough, uh, to advise to our customer. That usually takes around six months. Lead generation, we can kick off almost immediately. Uh, but understanding why something isn't working, the Polish market, uh, why a product that sells well abroad, uh, hits resistance, uh, here that takes time and um, it takes conversation, uh, data, uh, trial, uh, errors. After those six months, I can say to the customer, I know what's not working here and I know what to change. What is your opinion on that?

Ewelina Piechota: I think we shouldn't put everything into the same basket and every industry, every product, every client is different. So, uh, yes, it can take about six months. But on the other hand, there are some products which need much more time or sometimes less. But come back to the onboarding, um, because I think it's very important, uh, do you follow the same approach every time or does it depend on the project?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Well, it depends on the project. Uh, my consistent starting point is working with AI agents like Claude or ChatGPT. So they help me build the initial cold call script tailored to the right ICP and right buying Persona before I even make the first call. But that's just the beginning. Uh, after a few dozen conversations, the script starts to evolve. I rewrite it, I change the order of arguments, test different openers. Uh, it's a living document, not a template. Of course, the first calls often fall flat before we find a message that genuinely opens, uh, people up to the product. Uh, you have to go through that phase. On my 11th, uh, project here at Architecture of Sales, I've learned to accept it. Uh, it's part of the process, not a failure.

Ewelina Piechota: 11 projects. Oh, sounds like a lot of great work. And do you have the favorite one?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Well, uh, actually I have a favorite one project. My favorite project is, uh, Estonian startup, uh, that is, uh, doing electronic signing. It was, uh, my favorite project. I really enjoy it.

Ewelina Piechota: You talk about buyer Persona. Um, is it always, uh, one buyer Persona? Looking across my project, I see that buyer Persona, ah, on paper and in, in real life is totally two different things. How to define the right one, Countries

Szymon Dąbrowski: in the European Union, uh, despite appearing similar, often, uh, differ significantly in who is actually interested in a given product. Uh, that's why we run meetings with different buyer Personas to find out who the product, uh, resonates with the best. Uh, I have concrete example. A client was convinced their target Persona was the CEO. We, um, quickly discovered that the CEO doesn't use, uh, the software day to day. Their employees do. Uh, the CEO might be interested from a cost saving angle, uh, but it was the employee who actually used the tool and, uh, who had the decisive voice in the purchase. Rotating through buyer Personas is very common scenario. Uh, in our work, uh, we keep doing it, uh, until, uh, we have verified who responds the best, and then we focus all our energy on that person.

Ewelina Piechota: And how did you know that this is the right one?

Szymon Dąbrowski: You just need to look to the pipeline. Uh, uh, if you have done 20 meetings with the CEOs and you're still standing still, uh, no next steps, no real interest, that that's a clear signal that probably, uh, this Persona is not the right Persona. But if you do 20 more meetings with directors of development and suddenly things, uh, start moving, There is a request for a follow up. Uh, they want to bring, uh, someone else from their company to the meeting, maybe somebody from another department. Uh, more people start getting involved. That's the moment. That's the signal you are heading to the right decision maker. Uh, the pipeline doesn't lie. The numbers speak for themselves. And what do you think about it, Evelina?

Ewelina Piechota: Well, you talk about numbers, and I remember that situation when I got a lot of activities, real engagement from my side. And at the end I heard no, no, no says at all. Have you hit that wall, too?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Yes, of course. Evelina, I've been the same place many, many times. And I can tell you that if that would never happened, our work wouldn't be needed. Uh, every salesperson in the world, uh, has to get used to rejection. Uh, it's a natural part of this job. In classic sales, you get a dopamine hit with every transaction. What we do works, uh, differently. Uh, we help companies from other countries enter the Polish market, uh, reach the right people, uh, with the right message. Uh, the stakes are high. You are launching a market in G20, uh, country. It's a process. Uh, you do 10 meetings, analyze them with a, uh, customer, draw conclusions, uh, adjust the parameters, uh, refine the pitch, uh, and try again, like a loop. Uh, clients, uh, usually understand the nature of entering to the foreign market. But if you don't learn from our Failures. There is a um, little chance we will succeed. I have a client from Latvia who spent many months bouncing of doors with me. Uh, nobody wanted their solution, uh, not even for free. Today, a year later, six of the clients we have reached, uh back then, they are right now paying customers. Uh, you can't give up. Uh, you have to analyze the data, uh, adapt the product and the pitch, try new things. It won't happen on its own.

Ewelina Piechota: Shimon, how do you approach a new project where you start? Phone, email, LinkedIn, something else.

Szymon Dąbrowski: The good old phone rarely uh, lets me down. Uh, in Poland, calls works the best. When you send an email, you rarely anyone's priority. Right now you land in the inbox queue behind uh, dozens of other messages. When you call, you have their attention right here, right now. Uh, LinkedIn and email are my second option. Uh, when I simply can't reach someone by phone. But I always start with the receiver and everina. How are you approaching uh, that things.

Ewelina Piechota: I think you're right and really cold call emails is uh, uh, normal thing in that work. But what I would like to add is conferences because I uh, love conferences. It's uh, the best option to uh, meet face to face with your client to get feedback uh, from that you can understand uh, the clients and how they perceived your product. So, so when I have an opportunity to go to a conference, it's not only place for generating leads but also to understand uh, the market. Have you ever been in such conferences or you are going to?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Yes, I am going to Infoshare next month with my boss uh, and CEO Dominik Vantouk. But if it goes about conferences, you are the best uh, best person in our company because you are always not into our office because you are always in some conferences. So I can agree that um, for you m, this might be a really powerful tool.

Ewelina Piechota: Data showed that uh 64 of outbound calls go unanswered. Statistically you call three times to get one conversation. How does that reality affect how your plan your day and your activity volume?

Szymon Dąbrowski: For me the phone is just a means to an end. The real goal is online meetings. That's where actual sales happen. Sometimes you make 200 calls and don't book a single meeting. Other times you call five people in a row and book five meetings. Volume, um, alone guarantees nothing. Uh, that's why when I really work on the message, I often don't need to call that much. What matters more is what I do before the call. So verifying the leads, personalizing the approach, understanding that there Are specific problems that often delivers better Results um than 200 cold calls made without preparation. The quality of a conversation starts before you pick up the phone. And what do you think about it?

Ewelina Piechota: Volume is just number in my opinion. I think that the clue is to understand what you are talking about. So truly understand the product is the key of success. Uh, so yeah, Sometimes I need 10 phones to book five meetings. But of course sometimes I need to call for all day to understand the client's objection to understand the market. And after uh, such a day I got the feeling that I understand what's going on. And next day I can book new meetings after cold call. Uh, the conversations sometimes are very short. Uh people don't have time. And um, what do you do next after such conversations?

Szymon Dąbrowski: It depends on the situation. Um, if someone clearly had a bad day, I give them space instead of trying again I look for another buying person uh in the same company and try to reach the topic through them. A lot also depends on the size of the market. You work differently when you have um, thousands of potential companies in front of you versus 30 leads. Uh with 30 leads every call is appreciate. I think it's true. Careful before dialing a second time. Uh, on the other hand after three months very few people remember us. So you can usually go back. Maybe the timing was just wrong and uh, now it will be better. And what is your approach?

Ewelina Piechota: I agree with you. I have also a project where the market is limited and uh, I need to be prepared before the call. And uh, of course sometimes when client had bad day I just say don't worry and call again after three months as you said. But tell me more about the leads. How do you know when a lead

Szymon Dąbrowski: is really hot so very uh, often you know that in the first call, uh, if you ask someone about their problems and they say yes, this is a massive issue, it's costing us time and ah, money. Then I already know this is going uh to be a good lead. But there is also a second scenario. You only find out uh on the meeting itself. The client comes uh, to the meeting, he's closed, he doesn't want to say too much and the conversation seems to be going nowhere. Uh then you, then you need to open him up or them open them up with the right questions. Uh and it turns out to be one of your best meetings. Uh, people are different. Some will share their challenges early on the first contact, others want to talk. Then you have to take an individual approach. Convince them that uh you are there to help, not to sell. Because that's what this work is really about.

Ewelina Piechota: Uh, what about onboarding? Shimon, could you explain how long does it take and how it exactly look like?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Well, if it goes about onboarding, uh, it takes from six to eight hours. With our customer, normally it's two or three meetings. On the first meeting, uh, if it's a product, if it's a SaaS, our customer is presenting his demo to us. We are seeing it, uh, we are writing our questions. And uh, on the second, uh, meeting we are coming prepared, uh, with hundreds of questions that we need to ask. Those questions are about the value proposition. They are about the ideal customer profile, about the pain points, about the buying Personas and unique selling points. And this is the workshop, um, where we are trying to understand who will be the most interested, uh, in that product. And also, uh, it happens really, really, uh, often that the customers are understanding the things that they didn't understood before coming to that meeting. Uh, because not normally, no one is asking you five times the same question about your value proposition. And sometimes we have kind of uh, founders of someone from uh, C level in those companies kind of idea that uh, okay, we never thought about it. Yeah. So this is the moment when also our customers are discovering the things that uh, they didn't know about their product. And on the third one, we are connecting the dots, we are summarizing everything. And after that, the SDRs, me or you, we are dividing it into the mirror to the puzzles, like I said. And then we are trying to create something from it. So that's briefly how the uh, onboarding works.

Ewelina Piechota: And you said that you have to ask the same question in a different way few times. And how do clients react to that? Are they frustrated?

Szymon Dąbrowski: There were situations that uh, our customers were frustrated because they didn't understood, um, the purpose of those questions. But after the end of the onboarding, they knew that this is something that is needed and it's required to enter the new, the new market.

Ewelina Piechota: And have you ever had such situation that clients, I don't know, say, oh, I don't want to work with you. You are strange.

Szymon Dąbrowski: After such unboarding, it never happened.

Ewelina Piechota: According to the entering the Polish market, how many meeting must be, uh, delivered to start?

Szymon Dąbrowski: It depends on the product. Um, if you already, you are 100% sure that your ICP and your buying Personas are correct, then probably from four to six meetings per month would be appropriate. But if you need to validate the market and you have greater resources, of course changing the volume of the meetings will make it happen. But it needs to, this is the process you need to connect uh, prospecting and finding the new customers with also with a validation process. So each week you need to come to the, to the weekly. We need to discuss what happened, what those customers are saying on the meetings, what they feel about your product. And we need to connect those two parts to make you successful in the Polish market.

Ewelina Piechota: So you meet with clients not only on the onboarding but weekly. So once a week you get a call and talk with clients about what?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Yeah, um, so it is required that uh, our customers or somebody from their companies is entering the weekly each week. Uh, because we need to, we need to share what we are doing. Like I said, it is a process. So uh, we cannot do it only by myself because we have a people that um, are staying behind this product. They are, maybe they are successful in the um, in the Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania. And uh, they have a knowledge that we don't have. So we are connecting the ideas and um, experience from Polish market with their ideas and the history on those markets. And because when you combine all of it then you can have a result, uh, then you know what is working, what is not working, what we should improve.

Ewelina Piechota: And clients are open for improving, for changing sometimes, maybe, well not always.

Szymon Dąbrowski: And it's because this is how the B2B works. In the B2B machine you have uh, a lot of people that are working in those companies. So probably in some cases you have open people that are open to change something, to change the pitch on the demos, to change how you address the problems and uh, your uh, your value proposition. But also there are cases that's probably with enterprise uh, products because in the, like I said there you have a lot of employees and the decision making process is pretty, pretty, pretty long. And uh, it's pretty rarely that they are, they are eager to change something. Yeah.

Ewelina Piechota: Let's switch into architecture of sales offer. We offer three types of corporation. Could you explain uh, how it works and what are differences?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Well so it depends on your need. Uh, if you have a sales um, team in Poland or maybe abroad, uh, in your country, then probably uh, you, you would be seeking the standard lead generation. So we are generating leads, we are qualifying the leads. We are looking for the ICP for the buying Personas, the pain points. After qualifying, we are outreaching them by cold calls, cold emails or LinkedIn outreach. And our job uh, is to schedule a uh, call with end customer in uh, your sales team calendar. And um, if you have a sales team but they are not speaking Polish it might be hard to enter the Polish market only with English language. So in that case, uh, you should go for standard um, lead generation of active support. Because uh, in that service we are attending all of the meetings with the end customers and we are also doing the summaries, follow ups, uh, and uh, what is the most important, also translations and uh, what is important is that the sdr, uh, is taking care that right actions will happen from the side of the end customer and also from the side of your company. Uh, if you don't have an SAS team in your country and also uh, in Poland, uh, and you need to hire somebody in Poland to let's say account executive that will attend those meetings, you can think about sales outsourcing because our team has experience with the SaaS, with the technology products and uh, we know how to present your product, we know how to make the demos. So in that service we are doing everything from A to Z. Our SDR learns how to present your product. He's making uh, the prospecting, he's scheduling the calls, he's attending those calls, presenting your demo and he's also doing the summaries follow ups and he's responsible for the closing of your customer. So that's briefly how uh, what services we have in architecture of sales.

Ewelina Piechota: How about the changes? Maybe um, it happened that clients decided for example only for lead generating and after a few months they decided to uh, change into whole sales process.

Szymon Dąbrowski: Yes, it also happened pretty often. So when customer wants to launch a uh, Polish Poland campaign in Poland, he's uh, starting from the standard lead generation but after three months he's seeing, okay, we have this number of meetings done in Poland but nothing came up, nothing went to the next steps. So in that cases we have customers uh, that decided to go to the um, standard lead generation with active support or also for the sales outsourcing. So yes, uh, it is possible and we can adjust the offer whenever you want.

Ewelina Piechota: Shimon, what tools are essential in your day to day work?

Szymon Dąbrowski: In terms of tools, uh, my foundation is uh, cloud integrated with Outlook which supports me as an assistant in a daily work. The second essential tool is Fireflies. So we record the meetings or we are making the notes from the meetings and extract insights from them. Um, are we doing well? Should we change the pitch? This tool lets me, lets me analyze the conversation with the customers and generally improve over time. Uh, for prospecting, my favorite tool right now is clay, Uh, I know that for you is also pretty interesting tool uh, because it aggregates the other tools in one Place. So Lucia, uh Polo. Lots and lots of prospecting tools and you can do within an hour uh actually build a cold email campaign or, or qualify leads for phone calls. It's a massive time saver. And what are your favorite tools?

Ewelina Piechota: Yes, as you notice I really like clay. It is the best tool to find a lot of leads in a short time. I really like AI solution. I think they can uh help us in everyday life, especially at work. Uh as uh you said Claudia is m your and also my assistant at my everyday uh work. What do you think about uh AI solution using in work? Is it safe?

Szymon Dąbrowski: I think it is safe for the people that are uh outreaching the other people. But maybe how we are using the AI. So actually right now with a cloud you are able to create your own automations, your own agent that can uh go through clay or go through Apollo, find the right prospects, uh, prepare the uh cold uh email messages for them, send them, make the follow up. So I think it's a really powerful tool and this is something uh we are also doing that in our free time and uh, we are working on uh also on those kinds of automations.

Ewelina Piechota: I agree with you. I think uh it is really useful. Uh and if you have to give one piece of advice to foreign company thinking about entering Polish market, what would it be?

Szymon Dąbrowski: So I would say to him, act, uh, come in and try but work with a Polish partner. Analyze your meetings, look at what's working and uh, what is not working. Uh, don't be afraid to change your sale style, your presentations, even if they work differently back in your home. Uh, make the effort to understand how B2B companies buy in Poland. Uh and then adapt your uh sales process to those conditions. Um, that's the best uh advice I can give. And what advice you can give uh, to Poland potential customers, uh, everina from my side.

Ewelina Piechota: I think the most important thing is not to give up the first attempt and not to assume a fixed plan or formula from the start. Every market is different. And uh, what's the key when entering a new one, uh, is to listen to your client, uh, test different approaches and find the one that truly works and the last one. What's the hardest part of this job for you?

Szymon Dąbrowski: The hardest thing for me is uh when we have a very small number of potential leads, uh say 10 companies in the entire market, uh when there are many, there is room for mistakes, uh, you can test it and be wrong, uh when there are only a few, every conversation is worth its weight in gold. Uh, you have to Think uh, everything through carefully and approach uh it with really quality. So from my point of view, that's the biggest challenge. And what is your biggest uh, challenge in our job?

Ewelina Piechota: I think that uh, what I love and hate in this job is the same the variety of project. Uh, on the one hand, uh, it's the best part of the work because we handle all kind of size project. That's never a dull moment. As you know, you jump between projects but at the same time it's incredibly demanding and exhausting. For example, you finish meeting with uh, client about E commerce and one minute later you pick up the phone and you talk about internal communication. So uh, it needs a lot of power inside. But I think that's exactly why I love this job because to be honest, I thrive on challenge. And Shimon, tell me which project has uh, tough you the most so far and why?

Szymon Dąbrowski: Probably this would be the one which connects with your passions. Uh, for me that's the project in uh, IT space because I have the background from university and I simply communicate well with uh, it uh directors and CEOs in Poland. Uh, I understand their work, uh, I speak their language and um, this makes enormous difference. What about you?

Ewelina Piechota: To be honest, I don't have one. I have three which I do right

Szymon Dąbrowski: now before we wrap up. Evelina, uh, if someone watches um, this video and remembers uh, just three things, what should it be?

Ewelina Piechota: I think first, the Polish market work differently. Don't assume that something would uh, work in your country. Ah, will work the same here. Uh, understand how Polish B2B companies buy and adapt. The second, finding the right buyer Persona. And don't fall in love with your first assumption. Sometimes you need to change it. Test, analyze, rotate. And the third? Don't do it alone. Cooperate with local hero is the best option. Local partner who knows the market, speaks the native language and will tell you the truth even if it's uncomfortable.

Szymon Dąbrowski: And I add one more thing. Uh, don't wait for the perfect moment. The best time to enter the Polish market was yesterday. The second best time is now.

Ewelina Piechota: Yes, exactly. So don't be afraid to try it and just try.

Szymon Dąbrowski: Yes. And um, if you want to talk uh, about entering the Polish market, um, reach out link to both evelina and my LinkedIn um, are in the description. One conversation might be all it takes.

Ewelina Piechota: Thank you Szymon for a great conversation.

Szymon Dąbrowski: Thank you Evelina and uh, thank you all for watching. Uh, if you want to talk about entering the Polish market, you can find our links in the description of this video. Uh, and see you in the next one.