Accountability Gets It Wrong, Here's What Actually Works | EP 79

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Use the word accountability. And we often think negative thoughts about that word accountability. It's kind of like consequences. You know, what are the consequences? And immediately you go to what, uh, are the negative component of that. And so we've also built a culture in leadership that we avoid confrontation. So that's another thing. We put those three, those three words all together. Accountability, consequences, and confrontations. Sort of like in all this same little bucket. And. And it creates an emotional event for leaders. And a lot of leaders just don't want to go down that road. And me too. I don't like. I don't like confrontation. It's not something. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not an argumentative sort of, sort of person. But you're touching on. The main point here is we have to understand that holding people accountable is not a punishment. It really, it is an agreement. It's an honesty agreement. But we forget to create that culture at the very beginning of that relationship.

Speaker A: Every leader eventually faces a defining moment. A moment where preparation is tested, where pressure replaces planning, where the decisions you've made months or even years earlier suddenly matter. Most people believe great leaders are created in those moments, but today's guests believe something completely different. That leadership isn't built during the crisis. It's built long before it ever arrives. Today's guest spent more than three decades flying B52 bombers, leading combat missions where failure wasn't measured in quarterly earnings. It was measured in lives. He participated in one of the most consequential classified missions in modern military history, a mission that helped launch Operation Desert Storm. And today, he teaches organizations how those same principles create elite teams inside business. This conversation isn't about war. It's about trust, preparation, accountability, leadership, and what every organization can learn before its own defining moment arrives. Welcome back to another episode of the Perpetual Growth podcast, where we explore the people, ideas, and experiences that help us grow in business, leadership, relationships, health, and life. Today's guest has lived a career where excellence wasn't optional. Trey Morris served more than 30 years flying and commanding B52 bomber operations, including participating in the top secret 35 hour mission that opened Operation Desert Storm. He's flown more than 4,700 hours, led 33 combat missions, commanded the Air Force's B52 formal training unit, served as director of staff for the legendary 8th Air Force, and today helps organizations build cultures rooted in trust, accountability, preparation, and leadership. He's also the author of Doom 34, the Firsthand Account of the once classified mission that helped launch Operation Desert Storm. But as you hear today, this conversation isn't really about military history. It's about becoming the kind of leader your people already trust before adversity arrives. Trey, welcome to the Perpetual Growth podcast.

Speaker B: Man, so much. Uh, thank, huge, thank you for that. Sorry, all that, all uh, those great words you said about me kind of got me tongue tied. I think we're, I think we're done.

Speaker A: Well, let's dive in. Let's peel back that onion a little bit further. Tre.

Speaker B: Oh yeah, again, thank you and tremendous intro and uh, we'll see what we can do to live up to all those great words.

Speaker A: I have no doubt, my friend. It's going to be a fantastic conversation. I've been excited about this one for a while now. Um, Trey, when, when people hear, um, uh, combat aviator, they immediately think airplanes, missions, war. But I'm curious, you know, long before all that, who was young Trey? I mean, how did this path begin?

Speaker B: Oh, um, yeah, so great question. And grew up in uh, Northwest Arkansas of all places. Uh, I like to brag on that, on that area that I grew up in because it is the home of Walmart headquarters and Tyson Foods. So some tremendous wealth and companies that had their start in Northwest Arkansas and grew up in a kind of a service oriented family. My father was an editor of the local newspaper from, uh, worked at the same newspaper from age 16 all the way to when he retired. Uh, my sister was a police officer. My younger sister is still a nurse in the va, uh, system. So we've got this entire family that is service oriented and uh, you know, grandmother there that owned uh, and operated an auto parts store of all things. A woman in that type of industry was unheard of. Uh, and a lot of influences that really brought me to Air Force and military life. I uh, had a grandfather that flew B24s and B29s in World War II and an uncle that was a waist gunner on a B17 over the skies of Europe also during World War II. And then a couple of uncles that served, uh, in the enlisted corps, both in the Vietnam era and later on. So again, a lot of these influences on my life, uh, towards uh, service and hard work and really wanted to go to the military to do something that was bigger than myself. Mhm.

Speaker A: What was the moment that became clear to you? You know, was there, was there a, a particular conversation with. I mean you have a tremendous family history in the, in the military. I mean, was there a particular instance, a moment where that path became really clear and you're like I'm going to make this decision. It's time to go enlist. I mean, you know, I firmly believe there's, there's these, these milestones in our life and it's usually, you know, one, it's a confluence of things, but there's that moment we make a new decision. And what was that real inspiration for you?

Speaker B: Yeah, really it was uh, you know, coming towards the end of college like a lot of us do and we, and we're, we're looking at industry as a career path or something. And I continue having, I'm a big dreamer by the way, huge dreamer. Ran track for the University of Arkansas as a walk on for two and a half years. A tremendous experience. So I'm always thinking big and dreaming big. And I had, you know, we call it, uh, we often call it a dream or a calling, but I, I often refer to a calling as. It's just that it's a dream without action. And it really, it takes transitioning into other things that we can talk about later that are really my passion. But really that one moment is just having this continuous attraction to my, my influencers in my life through my grandfather and my uncle, through military aviation. And again, um, I was in love with the thought of flying, by the way. Now I've used those words intentionally because. And I talked, I talk about this story I'm about to share in my book doom 34 that you mentioned earlier. And the reason I say I fell in love with the idea of flying was the very first time I ever flew in an airplane when I was flying from Fayetteville, Arkansas to Little Rock, Arkansas to accomplish my flight physical after putting my initial signature on the form to join the Air Force. So think about that. I was going to join the Air Force, I wanted to fly and I hadn't even flown yet.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's wild.

Speaker B: So not a perfect epiphany moment, uh, answer to your question, but again, a lot of things in our lives, and I think you probably could agree, Zach, is you continue having this nag upon you, you might entertain that thought for uh, a season and then you sort of put it away and you go, uh, you know, life happens and you continue down the road of life, but then that calling, that dream keeps coming back, but you haven't taken the action yet. So again, it ain't nothing until you start taking action. So that was my first action point was flying and doing the uh, the physical.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Talk a little bit more about that, Trey. I mean that's a very important Distinction, Because I wholeheartedly agree there, uh, people that follow the path that we're conditioned to. Go to school, get a good job, buy your first home, buy another one if you can, save your money, make sure we get into retirement. But that's not really the path that I firmly believe what most of us are called to the higher path, the real innate desire. I mean, why do you think that is that so many people fall into the path that they're conditioned to as opposed to the one that is actually by their own decision and design?

Speaker B: I think you're touching on it. It's a very much of a layered answer. Complicated answer to that question. But, yeah, I think one of those is that you become conditioned either through your family, through us. Uh, and I talk about this a lot, a scarcity mindset.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is we. We drive down that road through whatever reason and. Sorry about that. Did that come over on? Do we got to edit that out?

Speaker A: No, I got you.

Speaker B: Okay, good. Bit of silence there. Okay, sorry. So we get in the scarcity mindset, and then we become conditioned, either through our grandparents, you know, more of the heritage of our family, that we need to travel down a road where have a safe and comfortable job, that we're able to make a living. And we've seen lots of movies about this and lots of stories, even from the Bible law to even just current stories in our society today that these calling moments often have high risk. And so we'll merge away from those. Now back to your question just a little bit. Yeah, I believe in everything does start with a calling. You gotta have a dream, a motivation point in life that, uh, whether that's coming through your faith or however. But you gotta pay attention to these outside voices that might come into your life. And that's another thing. We often forget those or ignore how those start piling up in our lives. Um, Doom 3 4, the book that I wrote started three years ago. Ah. But it was really a culmination of this list of almost five years of people coming to me saying, you need to write a book. Now, let's be clear. I'm a science guy and a math guy. I ran from writing in high school and college. I despise writing, even though my father is a journalist. So for me to even first have the calling, the dream was almost an insurmountable task all by itself. Never mind all the things that come after that to write a book, not to mention speaking. Yeah. So. So, um. So the process, the way I see it, you have calling first, and then you Have a series of assignments that. That's begins the action piece. No different than when we're. We're. When we're in school, what do we call those things that our teacher gives us at the end of the day to take home? What we call those homework assignments. And what are they designed to do? They're designed to either take a talent or maybe a place that you don't have so much talent and develop that into a skill. Right? And then as now you've created a place where you have readiness, you're ready to do something with the calling that then transformed into this series of assignments that gave you a skill, Whether you took a talent and made it a whole lot better or maybe something you weren't so great at, that you. Now you could, you could still be great at it. And now you have a readiness state. And then finally comes the appointment phase. And people often ask me, well, I don't understand what you're talking about. So look at it this way. Almost every major oath in the military, or even when you take a. An elected position and you do that oath, it starts off with I, Trey Morris, having been appointed a, uh, colonel in the United States Air Force. And then the rest of it goes along, or I, Mike Johnson, having been appointed speaker of the House, then it goes on and describes the duties and the responsibilities. So that's the important distinction as we travel down this road of calling to the point that you are actually turning that skill, that talent, into something usable for a greater thing. So I, uh, talk about that a lot and helping people understand, corporations understand that and even the people inside of them, that it's great to say, well, I felt called to using that statement. But if you really dig into that and you. And you dive in deeply into that, you understand there's a whole lot more. And we even display that in these, in these oaths of office or even our marriage vows. Think about marriage vow. That's basically an oath. And you are accepting an appointment to be a husband or a wife in that relationship, and all the things that come along with that you are promising. So anyway, kind of deep there. Sorry.

Speaker A: No, I love deep. I mean, it's, um, It's a fantastic way to look at life. I mean, and what I love too is I firmly believe that we all do have a calling. And I've also spoken with plenty individuals that are just like, you know, I feel like I'm meant for more, but I don't know what that more is. You know, how do you help somebody find that next Level that dream pursuit,

Speaker B: you know, for me, I have the privilege that I uh, really lean a lot on my face. And I think, um, if you're in that in your life, you'll get what I'm about to say. And a lot of the major moments when we change directions in our lives where we go through a season and we decide that it's time to uh, do something different, uh, it could even be that, uh. Let's just boil it down to something very simple. We all can relate to New Year's resolutions. Usually you have something in your life that has caused you a little bit of pain. Gaining a few extra pounds, you realize you're using your phone too much. Things that are, that are, that you would like to change in your life. And that is uh, a way that you're surrendering to the moment and then creating some kind of change. I have a friend, and we've heard this a lot, but I have a friend who uses this a lot in his company and he says, you know, nothing changes if nothing changes.

Speaker A: M. Mhm.

Speaker B: So to answer your question, often if you have a spiritual component to your life, it's time to make that stronger. I look at it as a three legged stool, Body, mind and spirit. And what happens is often the leg that represents the spiritual part of our life is super short, it's neglected. And that stool is basically. Only way it's balanced is because you jammed a bunch of boxes underneath that short leg just to make that stool keep from falling off. Over. We're doing things to sort of prop up that part of our lives.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now if you don't have a spiritual component, that's where you start bringing that inner circle in, in your life and really asking them, what do you see in me? You know, Zach, you may ask what, you know, what, what, what are my inner circle friends seeing me? Or maybe it's a, it's a close brother or sister is a uh, sibling and they can provide that. And I've done that too many times when my spiritual leg is not talking to me, that I, that I'm not strong in that, or I'm not hearing from God and, or I pay attention to those voices that come into my life randomly. And I put that in air quotes because I don't think there's randomness that are speaking into my life. I had this, uh, now I'm calling, uh, my good friend Jim Bun came into my life a year ago this past August, um, random meeting. I was actually at a funeral of all things, and I meet this Guy. And he wants, and he wants to hear, uh, read my manuscript. And because the book hasn't been published yet. So I give it to him on a Friday evening, email it to him. We come back together Saturday morning, and he stops me and grabs hold of my arm kind of forcefully, by the way. We got to talk. Well, the part I left out of this story so far is the evening before when I'm in my hotel room, I googled Jim Bunn. Like, who is this guy? Well, turns out he's a Peabody award winner, six time Emmy award winner. And the list goes on. This guy's a big deal. And the next morning, he grabs me and says, whatever you're doing in your life right now that is not involved writing books, you need to quit it. Quit that job, whatever you're doing, because your gift is writing books and telling stories. Now tell me that in, uh, a divine meeting, a divine intervention or somebody that you've only known for 12 hours, that has that kind of a resume, that kind of a pedigree, that kind of experience, and grabs you by the arm and whips you around, looks you in the eye and says, and he even said this. If you're not writing books, you are wasting a God given talent. Write books. Wow. That's a long, very impactful story to me. I mean, that's one you got to pay attention to. But there's other ones in my life that, that were. Had the same intention. Yeah. Uh, had the same desired outcome, but didn't, obviously didn't resonate with me the way. The way Jim Bunn did. I mean, that guy, absolutely, he shook me.

Speaker A: You know, there's a few things I hear there from you, Trey. I mean, discomfort is really our greatest opportunity to drive new decisions.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm a firm believer that, um, you know, that discomfort, those pains, the problems, the challenges are directly that they are by design. You know, it's something that God's put in our way to help us achieve that next level of growth and find that true path and calling. And, you know, we, we have one of two choices. We either lean into it or we run from it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And all growth happens outside of our comfort zone. But real joy, real fulfillment comes from leaning into that path and finding a way to serve at an even higher level. And it's, it's, it's fascinating how many times, you know, you hit the nail on the head is we go, life has its seasons. And sometimes those seasons are. Some are more challenging than others.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And we also know that light Always falls in darkness. You know, spring, fall is winter. And you know, that said, when you're going through one of those seasons, it's really hard to see that light. But if we can take that step back and ask what's good in this? What's the purpose of this season?

Speaker B: You know. Absolutely, absolutely. And, and we all. And, and I'm glad you're kind of touching on, on really the spiritual side of uh. And I love this, this one. Oh I love many passages out of the Bible, but this one is a reminder that we've all heard it before. You know, I walk through the valley of shadow death. Now it's, it's always when I talk about that, that little, that little bit of that passage, if I were in the valley of the shadow of death, I'd be running. I want to get through that. But the scripture says though I walk. Mhm. Right. That's a reminder that as you pointed out those, those pain moments and then hopefully are, that are followed by a quick surrender moment are there for development.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That surrender piece is a critical word. That was literally a word I had written on uh, sticky note of the bottom of my display for the better part of two years because it became a main focal point for me. It was.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: What you resist persists and the more that you try to avoid that problem, that challenge, that season, that one area of life to your point, to the three legged stool, when there's that uh, imbalance and lack of harmony more it tends to surface and rear its ugly head. Now trad. Love to fast forward a minute. I mean. Yeah, and because you know one, one sentence you wrote in um, your uh, your, your intake really stood out to me. I mean you said failure wasn't measured in quarterly results, it's measured in lived lives.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: That's a powerful statement. I mean how does operating in an environment like that permanently change the way you think about leadership?

Speaker B: Yeah, pretty broad statement, you know and I'll say pretty deep too. But yeah, so what I'm talking about there is even when so by the way, I do have 13 years working in the telecom industry and as a civilian. So I've kind of got this unique blend that I uh, As a, ah, I was, I was about 10 years active duty, another 20 years in as a reserve component military member and that's where I was able to kind uh, of had this dual career for a while as I spent 13 years in telecom. So I had the unique perspective of the, of the military um, version of leadership. If you Want to call it that. And then also learning from some great leaders in industry. So, so I have seen quarterly results and earnings and why that, why that is important for your stockholders. I get it. But even those, if you trace them down to how do you get those great quarterly earnings? Well it's still the people and it's still the ability for a uh, leader when needed to surge those teams to make these quarterly results, surge those teams to launch a new product or maybe a new internal customer service system. And by the way, I'm going down a list of things that I've done personally where I responded, my team responded to me and I responded to my leaders in such a way that the failure really is more measured in the people part of that. Now back over in the military side, when I'm involved with one third of the nuclear triad, I think our citizens, uh, the 350 million people of the United States would appreciate that failure really is rest upon the ability of the people to accomplish the mission. And uh, again as we're talking about the nuclear mission, we want that to be a no fail mission. So early that's really, I was getting with that kind of that broader deeper statement that uh, you can look at the accomplishment whether it's again it's an earnings report or something over here militarily, but really it is, it all is the people in the organizations underneath that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I mean talk a little bit more about that in your mind. How do elite teams actually build trust? And you know, equally as important of a question to follow is what destroys trust the fastest?

Speaker B: So I'll go over the first side of that first. Uh, first, uh, is first things first. Uh, I use this statement a lot that you cannot surge trust. Mhm. So think about that for me. Just let that land for a moment. There's no way to surge trust. Now you can get some temporary trust based on your, your title. You know, I, I uh, I've worked for the two star general for many, many years as the, you know, he's the mighty eighth Air Force commander. And, and we've all experienced that in organizations that we serve whether in industry or militarily. So your supervisor gets a certain amount of trust at the beginning. But there are certain things that have to happen within that supervisor and the relationship or the trust to stay where it was at the very least, but also grow.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So I think you understand where I'm going with you can't search trust and where we're missing that in my opinion as a society right now is we have a large group of our people that recognize the platform but don't understand there's a pain component that goes with that. You know, they want the platform without the pain. They want the drive through, they want the viral moment without all the things you have to do to create individual credibility.

Speaker A: Yes, mhm.

Speaker B: Stress that individual credibility. And that's where first level trust starts. Um, I had the privilege of being with, uh, Marcus Luttrell and Melanie Trail on their, their podcast a while back and we got on this topic and man, he rolled in there quickly on, on how SEAL teams when they're, when you're creating Seal Team 6 or whatever number it is, and as you have personnel coming in and out of there, man, they do the same thing we all do is you start Googling, asking people, do you know Bob? Do you know Zach? You know, how are they going to be as an operator? Well, we do the same thing. Even in industry, when you have a new person joining your team, do it now, did it in the military, you start asking about the credibility of the person's ability to do their job. So that's the first thing that gives you a leg up on that trust. And then, then it does take time. We talk about, I've talked about it in doom three, four, uh, during that, that moment in B52 community history folklore, if you will, is we operated under this concept of hard crews. And what that meant was when you were assigned to a crew, you did everything together. You know, you, you flew to. Nobody ever would come and fly as a guest on your, or seldom would fly as a guest on your, on your training missions. You flew all your training missions together. You set 247 alert, which you did that one week out of every month together. You even took your vacation together. Now it doesn't mean you all went to the same place together. Sometimes it did, but the, the time period, everybody had to agree, we're going to try to take two weeks to leave during this time of the year. So you created this, this bond, this trust by intentional efforts to be around each other. And that's, you know, that's the best way to create stronger relationships, understanding of how people think and communicate and trust each other.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I'm so curious about that from your perspective, Trey, because, you know, I've spent over 20 years, two decades in business, you know, starting out in the small business world, and I can wholeheartedly admit my start was not the best. You know, I modeled what I saw my dad do in the early days and it was very much the top down authoritarian leadership model. Do as I say because I told you to do it. I realized I would like to save fairly quickly. I don't know if it was quickly enough that that was not the way to run a successful business or really create one that's the successful and fulfilling long term. And you know, as I've worked alongside some of the biggest names in the world, I've, I've seen every end of the spectrum from small business to large, all different leadership types. And one thing that I found to be a common truth that I do not believe is exercise enough is really ensuring that your team feels heard and understood for you to know best.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: It's a whole nother thing. But we never know when somebody might know better.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And just because they don't have the same title, maybe they don't have the depth, same depth and background of experience. I firmly believe we have something to learn from everybody that is introduced into our lives one way or another. Good, bad, or indeed different.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, but it all starts with a desire to one, have that vulnerability, create the space. Because it's very easy in business in a leadership role to get fixated on the number. The, the, the, well, the numbers, the drivers. I mean what is moving the business forward today? What's the revenue coming in? Are we managing our costs and expenses? Well, you know, and all of a sudden you become a, a robot, a machine and you start to lose the human element.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So that is, I think is a, is a fundamental change in how we lead in the last 15 years. You touched on already as you watched your father. Same in the military. Uh, General Robin Rand. He's one of my uh, uh, folks in Doom 3 4. And something I learned from him when I was a colonel and he was a commander of Global Strike Command, which is overall the Air Force's nuclear forces. And he once said, and I knew we were going this way, but he said it in such a way as we owe our subordinates the why part, the so what part, back to your dad and back to 15, 20 years ago in the military it was all about just do as I say or I call it the drop and give me 20 push ups mentality. Meaning you bark out an order and you expect it to be completed and you move on. But now in the military, especially in the Air Force, they deserve to know why. And I saw that in the telecom industry where I worked for both Verizon and a company now that uh, is called Altale. Now it's gone. But it was gobbled up by Verizon many years ago. Is what happens in industry is I notice leaders often get in a hurried leadership fashion or sometimes in a toxic leadership fashion still, and they decide they're either not time or my team doesn't need to know the why. And so we lose that very valuable component of buy in. Yeah. Right. And as you said, buy in, the part that goes down below, buy in is being heard. That doesn't mean, if I listen to your idea, that I'm going to choose it every time.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: But at least as a leader, I consider that option, that course of action as we call those koas. And I listen to all the other coas that are being presented by my team and eventually I might have to tell Bob and Sally, I like what you're saying and I'm going to take a part of that and we're going to go over here with this hybrid effect or whatever that could be.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Um, they don't have to agree with you, but at least you provided a platform that everybody was heard. And also you've provided a more important platform to consider innovation that consider those ideas that didn't come out of your own brain, which to me is um, the pinnacle of why we want to do this way. Instead of dropping Give me 20. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I always said never. I always tell my teams, never underestimate

Speaker B: the power because yes, man, I got things I'm stealing from you already. What you resist, persist and never. Yeah, let me tell you right now,

Speaker A: never underestimate the power because that why. I mean, it's the thing that creates alignment behind the target.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, and it's so simple but so profound. And to your point, it's very easy to get caught in the busyness of the moment and lose the thing that creates the alignment behind the busyness. And the because is so beautiful. I mean, you know, another, uh, element to this is, is also the, the balance of. And I hate the word balance. I'd like. I love the word harmony more. A friend of mine said this a while back and I'm like, oh, this feels so much more congruent. The harmony of, of accountability and trust and can they coexist and, and what does accountability really look like? Because a lot of people, many organizations, many leaders, I believe, confuse accountability with punishment and the if, if we. And the biggest thing in my perception is it's not so much about punishment as it is. Have I even clarified their targets? Do they know their mission? Do they know what they're aiming toward and do they have clear key performance indicators in order to get there? And then are we holding them Accountability accountable to those things? So often the things that people are being penalized for are things that have never been clarified in the mission objectives to begin with. They didn't have the targets. And then they wonder why they keep repeating these same patterns in business. And I'm like, this is a lack of leadership. It starts at the top. It's not something that they're missing. What are you missing? What would you say to that, Trey? I mean, I see you nodding in alignment. So, uh, I can't wait to hear your perspective on this.

Speaker B: And I'm putting a lot of study in this and bringing it into a lot of my keynotes. And you use the word accountability, and we often, uh, immediately in our brains think negative thoughts about that word accountability. It's kind of like consequences. What are the consequences? And immediately you go to the negative component of that. And so we've also built a culture in leadership that we don't like, um, that we avoid confrontation. So that's another thing. We put those three words all together. Accountability, uh, your consequences and confrontations. Sort of like in all this, the same little bucket. And it creates an emotional event for leaders. And a lot of leaders just don't want to go down that road. And me too. I don't like confrontation. That's not something. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not an argumentative sort of person. But you're touching on. The main point here is we have to understand that holding people accountable is not a punishment. It really. It is an agreement. And it's a. And it's a. It's an honesty agreement. But we forget to create that culture at the very beginning of that relationship. And we allow. I like Dr. Henry Cloud. He's. He's, uh, a. He's right up there with John Maxwell in my book with a lot of leadership principles and what he says about organizational culture. It's either what you allow it to be or what you intentionally make it. M. In an organization. If you have dropped out this idea that we're going to have open feedback and we're going to have accountability and consequence discussions in real time and not. Wait, then if you don't create that culture up front, then yeah, you do come up with this culture of. Of. I don't want to have confrontation within the organization. In flying in the Air Force, we have this thing called, uh, crew resource management or cockpit resource management program. And we also had this concept of the debrief. So we do this training that helps us realize that in the midst of an execution, flying the airplane or executing a product rollout in the middle of the night is there are certain behaviors that you have to adhere to so that everybody in the organization is still in the organization. They haven't checked out, they haven't quit. So that's one component. The debrief is the other thing. We do that after every flight. And it's common across all military flying organizations, Air Force, Navy, Marines, army, all that. We have the debrief. And that culture was created from the very moment that we stepped into flight training. And we also understand that there's going to be honesty. And so it's sort of this, um, I call it a therapy safe space. Um, if you've ever been, um, couples counseling, they try to create this safe area that you can say whatever's on top of your mind. And that's the way this debrief works. Sometimes it could be a little bit brutal, sometimes it could be a little bit, almost a little bit hurtful. But the point is, is you're getting honest feedback across your entire organization to include your supervisor. And uh, now that transparency moment is respectful and dignified. And I again I stress those two words because what's disrespectful? Well, that's neither not telling them the truth or the omission of truth, you know, sugarcoating the issue or not even telling the issue. That's disrespectful. If you think about it, why wouldn't I want to share in a, uh, in a professional, caring manner that we've got some issues in our organization and we often as leaders, especially when we're in this mode of I don't want to any confrontation or I feel, I don't feel like I want to hurt your feelings. But we, we miss the, the greater value of transparent, honest, sometimes brutal feedback. Mhm. Yeah. Long answer.

Speaker A: No, it's a beautiful answer though. I mean, something I'm noticing listening to you. I mean the military often gets stereotyped as rigid, but what I'm actually hearing is an incredible amount of trust. And because, because you can't micromanage people inside of combat, right? I mean eventually they simply have to become the type of people who make the right decisions without someone watching. And I think the same thing applies in business. I mean that's really culture isn't, is.

Speaker B: And it goes back to that individual credibility moment that you have as you're building trust on your team. And once you see that? Uh, now you're right. Um, I had this supervisor one time that said he wasn't a micromanager, but he was, he was, um. Oh gosh, he's not micromanagement, but he was, he was micro informational. M. He's micro data. And I thought, meaning he, he, he wanted information from the team and he wanted it all the time. Ah. And so nothing wrong with gathering some information, I think. But you're right. As you, as you man. And really it's micro leadership is what we're talking about because again, you manage things.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And you lead people. So yeah, we have a tendency, especially when the stakes are high, that we want to get in there and as a leader and, and get into this, this micro leadership mindset. But again, as a leader there. Sorry, I gotta get. I thought I had this everything silenced. And there's another ding.

Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Wake. I can't hear it on this end.

Speaker B: Okay, good. All right, sorry. Um, so we get in this mindset that we feel like in these high risk, high return on investment, but with high risk, uh, endeavors that we as leaders need to get in there and be more of a micro leader. And I see it all the time. Um, that's the moment as a leader, you really got to pull back. And as you mentioned already, Zach, is trust the team and remind yourself that you have created this level of affirmation you've already trust, but verified, if you will, on the individuals on your team and the processes that they've got to follow and how they interact with other teams around the organization. That should have already been done.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker B: And uh, so that's the moment that we all have to have a few of those inner circle people as leaders and those inner circle people that help you, um, point out the blind spot when you're merging over into micro leadership.

Speaker A: You know, it's a fascinating thing is I firmly believe that we all have two leaders inside of all of us. There's who are you as a leader when things are going well and who are you as a leader and how do you show up when all hell is breaking loose? And for most people they are not the same person and they don't realize it. We feel extremely effective until shit's hitting the fan and all of a sudden a different person emerges. And being able to level up that alternative self and become more mindful and aware and present of the way that you show up in different environments during different seasons is, I think one of the most important places that we can Exercise self awareness and emotional intelligence and learn to extract the things that already make us great and transition that to that other side and figure out where we can become even better. I mean, for all of our, you know, leaders that are listening right now, you know, whether it's a business owner, the executive, the manager, I mean in any type of leadership role, and I believe we're all leaders in one, if not multiple areas of life. I mean, let's focus on business for a second. If you walked into a struggling business tomorrow, what would you look at first? Right,

Speaker B: I look at uh, the day to day, maybe only, maybe one or two days of energy. M and what I'm talking about is hopefully you're walking in an organization where you're going to get some, some dynamics during the day or the, or whatever. However much time you're doing. Observation, observation is most important. I mean, Stephen Covney talks about, uh, you know, seek to understand and then to be understood. So you've got to have this seek to understand moment. And where I'm talking about the energy is, and you touched on it already, Zach, is when the situation of the moment rises and falls on the energy, what's happening with the leadership? Is he matching that energy, which then continues this logarithmic curve of uh, even more energy. Because the people that you're leading or even the outside organizations that are your support organizations are going to notice just the energy level rising or falling. So granted, certain level energy needs to take place if the team is lagging behind the required attention and activity level. Got that. But I'm talking about the negative non productive energy that you have a leader that uh, again becomes in almost a panic mode. So that's what the first thing I always look for is what's happening at the energy level in the room. Because again, this is human nature. Your subordinates, your members in your organization will follow your reaction to the issues, to the challenges. If you have a calm, unflappable leader at the helm, it keeps people into that mindset that uh, you don't have to go faster to make things happen. Sometimes slow is fast. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yep. Slow as fast. Fast is smooth. I mean, what I hear from you there, Trey, is, you know, leaders, one of the ways they accidentally lower standards is the emotionality of the moment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, if we're not remaining steadfast, and this works as a parent, it works as a friend, it works as an owner leader of an organization. If we don't maintain our emotional state and remain grounded, people are going to model your behavior Whether you like it or not. So it's important that we look inside first because that can be one of the drivers that lower standards. And, you know, one thing, we've talked about it a little bit, but, you know, do you believe. Uh, I believe I know the answer to this, but do you believe that standards can exist without accountability?

Speaker B: No. No. And that goes back to what, uh, I mentioned earlier, is about this culture set. Um, there's a company that I had some connection with, um, a few months ago, and, uh, I was talking to their HR team. And during this first connection to the HR team with this company, the first thing they came out with was the company's core values. Think about that. How often do you get punched in the face with core values before you even start talking about, um, job expectations or the culture of the company? And really, that is kind of the culture of the company. So that's where we often lose a lot of where we are today in society is we don't communicate up front. Here's our core values, because that's really how we. We. We are what we expect from you. Um, so that interaction got me off on another research project. So I got to looking at all the. The main web pages for all the service components. Air Force, Marines, Army, Navy first. I googled, what's the core value slogan of that service component? Air Force is integrity first service, uh, before self, excellence in all. We do. Got that memorized. I, uh, went to the Air Force website. I couldn't find it. Couldn't find it anywhere. I mean, I clicked all over the place, hit the search button, dug deep into the about us page. Everywhere on the Air Force mil site, the one that, that really is both for the. The Air Force member and maybe somebody thinking about coming into the Air Force. And I could not find the core values anywhere on that website. Couldn't find it for the army, couldn't find it for the Marines, but I did find it for the Navy after a couple of clicks. Uh, so to me, that is astounding for our military organizations either. I can't find it, and maybe it's there, but I just can't find it. But to me, that should be like, almost on the splash page. That should be there. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So again, kind, um, of a detailed answer to your question, but what I'm talking. Yeah, what I'm getting at is we fail to advertise market core values of a. Whether it's a military organization or some kind of industry. Except for this one company I talked about, um, and it's and It's a Fortune 500 company. Uh, we often fail to push that out first. So that when you do onboard these, these new employees or whatever that is mergers and acquisition, everybody understands what the common vernacular is and the common expectation for, for you as an individual and you as, as your subgroup.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I mean, um, it's the North Star, it's the guiding light. And you know, without that, without that, everything can feel, uh, name your adverb or adjective. I mean, it can feel misaligned, it can lack continuity. I mean, becomes the, the guiding light for every decision that we make ultimately and how we make decisions, individuals and as a team. And now Trey, as we wrap up today's episode, and I cannot believe how quickly the last 45 minutes have gone. We're definitely going to have to have you back for another conversation because there's way more that I'd love to peel back. But, uh, yeah, let's talk about the book for a moment. I mean, the story remained, uh, classified for decades. I mean, when did you first realize this wasn't simply military history anymore and then it contained lessons every leader needed to hear?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean this story, you know, 57 airmen flying in a top secret mission, uh, first of its kind, really setting the bar of how we project power today with long range strike again. It was the first time we'd ever as a country, and really any country had ever, uh, taken off from their homeland, successfully struck targets in the area of operation and returned safely home. 35 hours, uh, that time a record setting mission. Uh, it's no longer at the top of the list, but it's still, again, it set the bar. And I mentioned earlier that we're terrible at telling our stories and definitely the military is. And we always knew it was significant. Uh, components of it even today are still classified. Um, but really there was a couple of people that came into our lives that uh, again, these airmen, including me that flew this mission and really encourage us to embrace the heritage of it. And I mentioned him earlier, General Robin Rand, he's retired right now, but a four star general. And he came alongside us, ah, and really kind of pushed us out of the dark and into the light and encouraged us to create a heritage group, celebrate the story, meet annually in a, in a reunion type situation. And so we started doing that. The other person that he also facilitated that came alongside us was a guy named Dick Cole. Now that that name may not mean anything to you, but I would invite you to go look at the Doolittle Raiders of 1942 that flew BFIT B25 bombers off the deck of the USS Hornet and struck targets in Tokyo, Japan. The strike was not significant and damaged but man it was tremendously impactful of how the Jap, how the Japanese were projecting power and withdrew closer to the island. And really was a significant turning point early in that conflict, in that war because of what they did. And Dick Cole came alongside of us about the last four years of his life and he was the one that encouraged us to embrace the heritage and create identity. Much like they had done all these years where they did an annual toast and they came together as uh, a reunion group again. He was the sole survivor of a mission that was intensely significant to long range strike and quite literally passed the torch to us before he passed away. And the other connection to the Doolittle Raiders is uh, and I'll share this real quickly. Ah, and again I talk about it in Doom 3. Four is the morning of the pre mission, the pre strike brief. Much like you see in movies where all the crews are sitting in rows in a nondescript briefing room and there's people coming back and forth on the stage and providing weather updates and mission updates and timing and all this stuff. You need to go fly a strike mission. Uh, the commander of 8th Air Force, Lt. Gen. Buck Shuler stood up and gave the speech like you again you see in the movies about you know, the person on your left may not come back from this mission. You know, very impactful words. But, but during that, that speech of his, he said your mission is no less important than the Doolittle Raiders in 1942. Mhm. Fact he said that, it's in the book. Uh, so we've carried that all these years with us but we always felt a little bit less by comparing our mission to that mission. Yeah, but nevertheless it was there. And so those were the two people that really imparted upon us how important it is to ensure this story is told. And that's really, for many years we would get together in these reunions and we all, somebody would say we need to write a book or uh, we would need to write a book. Well there's a whole other story about how the book came about but I was the one that finally sat down for about a year and a half at 4:30 in the morning every day before I went to work and wrote Doom three. Four.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, I mean trade, there's, there's several things, uh, you know, the big takeaways, things I want to highlight as we wrap up today. I mean, you know, one I heard elite teams don't just magically rise during presence. I mean, they rise to the level of their preparation. Yeah, trust isn't created during crisis. It's revealed during crisis. Accountability only works, or at least it works best when people willingly own the standard. Yeah, leadership isn't about control. It's about creating people who no longer need to be controlled. Uh, and culture is simply repeated standards over time. Now, there's more, but those are some of the things that really stood out to me as we progress to this conversation today. And again, I, I cannot wait to have you back. Dread me. One thing I'll carry with me from today's conversation is that history isn't shaped only by extraordinary moments. It's shaped by ordinary people who spent years preparing for moments they hope would never come. So whether flying a B52, leading a sales team, raising children, building a business, the principles remain the same. You don't rise to the occasion. You rise to the level of your preparation. So thank you for spending your life helping people prepare before the pressure arrives. Now to our listeners. You know, if today's conversation challenged you, I'd encourage you to pick up Doom 34. Uh, uh, it's the story of a once classified mission that helped launch Operation Desert Storm. It's ultimately a book about leadership, trust, preparation, and the standards that shape extraordinary teams. Um, you know, Trey, for our listeners, where are the best places they can reach out to you, find out more about you, opportunities to work with or alongside you? Um, if you don't mind sharing some of those things now, I'd love to provide you that opportunity.

Speaker B: Oh, easy. So, um, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and my own website. Everything is Trey Morris. T R E Y M M O R r I s s 2s's on Morris for me. Uh, I invite you to go treymorris.com, that's my website. Uh, everything else kind of can be found from there. Doom 3. 4. The best way to find that, if you're interested in doom3, hope you are, really, is go to Amazon. It's, it's, it's been out there, it's doing really well, continues to do well. It was released early, uh, early March and then, uh, but Again, back to treymorris.com you can find out more about me. Uh, my passion for keynote speaking and really promoting this type of stories for our military, giving them a voice.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a beautiful gift and I love that you are leading by example and, um, you know, for our listeners. We'll make sure we have all the the links for everything we just discussed in the show notes as well. And as always, if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to subscribe to the Perpetual Growth podcast. Leave a Review Share this conversation with someone who who leads others. I mean, those simple actions help us reach more people who are committed to growing in their business, leadership, health, relationships, and life. So until next time, remember, growth doesn't happen by chance, it happens by choice. And growth isn't reserved for extraordinary moments. It's built through the standards, the habits and decisions that you choose every day, long before anyone is watching. Trey, again, my friend, from my heart to yours, thank you for joining us in the Perpetual Growth podcast today.

Speaker B: Zach thank you, brother.

Speaker A: You're welcome.