Is your investment strategy actually hurting your family? | EP 74

Speaker A: Foreign. When it comes to not only the investment strategy but also their habits, we're going to make sure that they're in line like we're understand take the time to say all things we talked about. What's important to them? Who's important to them? What's the legacy they want to live? People think legacy is just about money. No, legacy is a ripple effect that you have on not only your life, your community, the people around you and the people you care about most. And so those are the first couple of changes that I'm going to make is, and then I'm going to see is, hey, what, what are they doing? Is it getting them or is it in line of where they want to be? And risk is huge because risk lets you know is hey, what's the upside but what's the downside?

Speaker B: What if happiness isn't waiting for you after financial success? What if the way you think about money is actually preventing both? Today's guest is a former professional basketball player, best selling author, certified financial planner, entrepreneur, husband, father, and someone who spent years helping people become rich in money and and rich in life. Welcome back to the Perpetual Growth podcast. The show we explore the strategies, insights and stories that help you to grow your business, strengthen your relationships and elevate your life. Because growth isn't just about what you achieve, it's about who you become along the way. Now, uh, if you're enjoying the show, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone committed to living a life of continual growth. Today's guest is Dr. Nicholas E. Michaels. Sarah, CFP certified financial planner. Nick is the founder of Michael's Family Financial, a certified financial planner, author of the best selling book Rich by Choice, former professional basketball player in Germany, entrepreneur, husband, father and financial educator. Over the last 15 years, he's helped individuals and families create financial security, confidence and peace through comprehensive wealth planning. What I appreciate most about Nick's approach is that he doesn't just focus on building wealth. He focuses on building a meaningful life. Today we're discussing financial freedom, budgeting and money habits, tax strategies, wealth building principles, the psychology of money, happiness and fulfillment, family legacy, and what it truly means to become rich in both money and life. Nick, welcome to the Perpetual Growth podcast.

Speaker A: Hey, Zach. Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm very excited to dive in with you today. Now, uh, Nick, when most people hear the word wealth, they immediately think about money. Dollar signs. You know, after helping families for over 15 years, how do you define true wealth?

Speaker A: Man And Zach, that's a great question. It is. And when I was younger, I agreed with people. It's just dollar signs. Hey, more money, higher money, just the high life, everything. You just want to think about dollar signs and commas. Um, but now, as I've gotten a little older and I've had experience working with families all around the United States, um, there's a lot more to wealth than just money. And don't get me wrong, money is very important, and it's a very important part of wealth. But I would say there's several different categories that people get excited about, and everyone's a little bit different. Not better or worse, just different. But when I think about wealth and a wealthy life, it's understanding those categories, whether it be faith, family, health and wellness. Um, legacy, yes, dollars. But understanding those categories and being wealthy in all of those categories that are most important to you. That's what I think of. Of wealthy or wealthy life.

Speaker B: Yeah. Now, I love that there's a, uh. I used to use the word balance, and now I can't stand it. To me, it's more about harmony, you know, having that. The synergy between each of those aspects of life because we neglect anyone. And to come back to one of those key principles that you talk about it, that's where fulfillment can start to falter. And I think having that conscious awareness is one of those important parts. Now, Nick, Nick, your story is fascinating. Like, most financial advisors don't start as professional basketball players. What was life like playing professional basketball in Germany?

Speaker A: It was a lot of fun. It was a dream come true. And to be honest with you, Zach, I never. I mean that growing up, it wasn't. I was. I wasn't pegged for that. They weren't like, oh, this kid's LeBron James. This kid's a five star. I wasn't. It was one of those things where I just kind of got a little better and a little bit better each year. And then the doors opened. I'll tell you this. Um, do you ever see the show Seinfeld? You remember Kramer on Seinfeld? Okay. You remember when he was suing the coffee company, he walks in there, they offered him free coffee for life. And he just jumped at it, was like, yeah, I'll do it. And his attorney was so mad at him. Um, that was my agent when we were negotiating contracts, because they're like, hey, we'll give you a roster spot and let you play basketball and we might give you an apartment. And I was just. I was like, yeah, let's do it. And so I wasn't allowed to negotiate contracts after that because it's just a dream for me. Like, it was fun.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, that's a great segue. I mean, what lessons from athletics still impact how you approach money in business today?

Speaker A: You know, it is a lot. First of all, I love sports or any type of extracurricular for kids because it teaches so much about life. You know, perseverance, work ethic, uh, intentional daily commitment. Um, it was wonderful. You know, I was working out with, with the Mavs D League team when I was coming back in the off season, and I don't remember this. He's a, he played basketball at Arizona, um, was a world champion of the Dallas Mavericks. There's Jason Terry. Jason Terry is working out in the corner and I just saw it. He, he had two rebounders passing the ball and he was going to 10 spots around three point line. So he probably worked out for about 25, 30 minutes. Just consecutive. If you just see it shooting three, shooting three, shooting three, spot after spot, he probably made nine to 10 or 10 out of 10, every spot. And being on that stage, just seeing it, that not only they're really good, but just the preparation, the work. And there's probably days that Jason didn't want to go to the gym, but he did it anyway because you can't do that and have that level of success without putting in the time. And, and that's, that's basketball. That's sports. It's extracurricular for kids, whether it be music, dance and business. And life is the same thing. It's, it's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We're rewarded in public for what we practice in private. But, you know, I think one of the biggest challenges is so many people are, are not living a life by design. They are, they're waiting for life to happen to them instead of deciding what they want to happen for them. And it's, uh, it's a, it's a very different mentality. I mean, it make, it makes me wonder. Well, a multitude of things. I mean, let me ask you this. Did you, did you always know financial planning was your calling? I mean, where, where did that evolution come from again? I mean, you saw the power of repetition, you know, building that foundation. Was it a numbers game for you in basketball that that somehow then translated to financial planning? I mean, where did that, how did everything come full circle to where you're at today?

Speaker A: Well, I was actually fortunate that where it really started was even before I went and played professional basketball. I got an internship and of college got an internship just because I needed a job, need an internship. And I had a friend who was a financial advisor. And when I got into that world, math, uh, was always easy me. But you saw the impact you can make on people and dealing with people. And we'll go probably go into the Zach. But about my upbringing, I, I dealt with a lot of troubles, a lot of hardship as a kid coming up. And when you get put into a position where you can help people overcome the same hardships that you experience, it was very rewarding. So I always say that basketball and finance were my two favorite passions and I was just lucky enough to be able to do them both.

Speaker B: Ah, that's beautiful. I, I very much resonate with that too. I mean the, the things that were the greatest challenges in my life are the greatest gifts that we can give to others because we can take those experiences and prevent other people from having to pay what I call the lovingly the dumb tax.

Speaker A: It is, it is. And then the thing about finances or life in general, you know, the Dalai Lama said every human being at the, at the core of it, we're all the exact same. You could be this or that, tall, short, whatever. We're all the exact same. Every single human being is trying to do two things which is overcome pain and increase joy. I mean everybody, and we all have a history of things that we were dealing with and things that we want to overcome. And it's very fulfilling when you try to, in your purpose to help people do that.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about the money aspect of things. And one of the first questions it's just been floating in the back of my mind is, you know, I, I, I've had the, the, the blessed opportunity to coach and consult for, for thousands of individuals, predominantly in the business world. And I always said I have to be a bit naive not to have mastered a certain degree of pattern recognition at this point. And frankly, it's just one of my superpowers. I mean I'm really good with patterns and people. And one of the things that, that I wonder and think about a lot in today's world is, you know, I, I speak with more and more individuals who are, are being laid off after having committed decades to going through these, you know, major life shifts, challenges and they're reevaluating what they want life to look like at this stage. And you know, for many of them they could be in midlife and Beyond. Maybe it's 30s, 40s, maybe it's even 50s or farther down the road. And all of a sudden they're looking at the retirement account and going, I don't have a retirement account. And Social Security is sure as hell not going to provide the, the, the quality of life that I want, you know, m. Maybe I'm, um, able to just get by. But you know, for our listeners that are, you know, maybe in that midlife stage, or maybe they're ahead of the game and really wanted to prepare, you know, what would you say to them? Like if they're in their 40s, 50s, or maybe even beyond, and they've got nothing set to the side? I mean, are they, is there still an opportunity to come back full circle and build a, a life by their own design to create financial freedom and.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Where do you recommend they start?

Speaker A: Oh my goodness. And first of all, yes, absolutely, there's still time. In fact, if you look at the numbers, all the books I've ever read, and I love to read, they say life begins after 40 anyway. Because the whole first 40 years of our lives we're trying to figure out what to do. But once you get to be 40, you kind of, you kind of understand and you start making moves. And then, uh, it was Dale Carnegie once said, you know, the greatest wealth building time in your life is from ages 40 to 75. So you're talking about later down the life. No, you have 60, so much time and what you don't want to happen is be 10, 15 years down the road from now, looking back and still haven't done anything. Um, so the first step would be to take a second, take a deep breath and understand, you know, where do you want to go? Like, what's the life that you want to live? And, and what I mean by that, Zach, is most people say, hey, I'm looking for a million dollars, or I'm looking for 100 million, or what? They have some sort of bogey out there. Nothing. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. But I challenge people to take a step or multiple steps toward understand. Okay, hey, that's a bogey. Wonderful. But what life does that give you? Like, what are we really searching for here? It's Tuesday afternoon and I'm not working. What is my life like? Um, you know, I have four kids. Chances are one of them might live out of state. Okay, when I become a grandpa and they live out of state, am I buying a second house there and spending months out of the year there? You know, what is that relationship like, so you want to go into details of the exact specific life that you're wanting and then work backwards from there. Okay, now what do I need for that? Because the answer is always not more. And there's nothing wrong with more. But sometimes you don't need to sacrifice joy and peace for more when you already could have the life that you want. Um, so going back again, Zach, with the original question is, what can they do? Well, it depends on, you know, where they want to be. What kind of goal do they want? It could be just setting aside and putting back X percent into a retirement fund, taking, matching, you know, it could be, hey, getting into the real estate game or starting a business, I believe it was. Harvard did a study, which is fascinating, and they talk about roi, and the ROI was the. The greatest return on investments ever. Number one was starting a business, starting a business, or buying business and selling them. Um, after that, I went into real estate in the stock market. Then it went down from their bonds and cash alternatives. So let's let you know where. Where what you can do. But what I love about finances is everybody's different, Zach. So I can't say this is a B and C right here, because for somebody that might be perfect, but for a lot of people, that could be terrible advice.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I love what you led with, too, is, you know, I would say clarity is power. And unfortunately, fuzzy targets also don't get hit. And most people, to your point, and I've spoken with countless individuals, they're. They're the. Ask them what they want, and they're like, I want, uh, to your point, a million dollars or $10 million. And it's like the real question is, what will that do for you? What do you plan to do with those revenues? How long is that actually going to last you? I mean, what type of life do you want to live? Is. Are you. And here's one of the big things I found is people, the farther into adulthood they, uh, are, the greater the potential that they become jaded by previous life circumstances, and it can become the thing that creates that metaphorical prison where they're. They've started to develop, in most cases, an unconscious belief system where they are fighting for comfort, they're fighting for the devil they know. And, you know, I always say, you know, comfort is the real enemy. If we're coasting, we're going downhill. The whole life that you want, nine times out of 10, is outside of your own, your comfort zone. You're going to have to get comfortable Getting uncomfortable and do something different. You know, next level life requires next level decisions. We cannot continue to do the same thing and expect a different result. Einstein's definition of insanity. I mean, here's another great question on that takes. I mean, we got to create clarity, right? We need to. And you know what I always invite people to do, and it sounds like you're going through that same process is I'm like, okay, imagine you're a kid again. You know, what do we do? We dream. We could dream up the most incredible universes.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Be that kid again for five minutes. Give yourself the opportunity to grab a pen and paper and just start to write. If I could have anything, if I could live a life without limitation, if I had no fear, what would I do? What would I want to create? What experiences would I want to have for the kids, for the family, for my wife, for myself? And mhm. That's another thing is lead with self. It's okay to be a little bit selfish in order to be selfless. We can't, you can't pour from an empty cup, you know, So I love that principle and that guiding, that guiding north, uh, star. On that same note, but opposite parallel, why do you believe so many people make good money but still feel stressed?

Speaker A: Yeah, I call it outwardly successful, inwardly stressed. And it can be a number of different reasons, uh, because we all seen it. The people that have good paying jobs, you know, they have the nice cars, the fancy jewelry and things like that. And I think the number one thing is they really do. They're using money they don't have to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like. I mean, what that is, is they're just kind of aimlessly going through life without what, chasing after what they really want. I mean, I love, in fact, Zach, that's the first I've heard it. You pretend like you're a kid and design the uh, life that you want. I think that's genius. I actually say, hey, pretend like the opposite side. Pretend like you're 120 years old and you're in a rocking chair and your life's about to be over. What specifically has to happen in your life for you to go, man, I did it. Like, what an amazing life. Like I lived it. And I challenge people to think about the different categories. Not just money, but the people, faith, wellness, and each one of those, what do you have to accomplish, the life you have to live to be just extraordinarily happy and fulfilled. Life will never Be perfect. But I think that the kid analogy, that's. That's genius, Zach. I love that. I do.

Speaker B: I love both ends of the spectrum that I call that the rocking chair test, I think, is each equally as profound, and especially if we can embody both. I mean, you might, you know, lead with the child and then go with, uh, the 100 year old sitting on the front porch and going, what did I overlook? You know, what I love about your approach, Nick, I got to say, is I, you know, I've met a lot of financial advisors, a lot of planners over. Over the years, and there's. There's the way that you integrate psychology into the process where it's not all just clinical. It's not just, what's the bottom line, just the facts that figures. You get down to the real human. That's a beautiful gift, brother. Like, that's something that so many people don't get. They don't. I mean, it's just. It's more transactional. And where you're creating the relational component is so much more powerful. I mean. I mean, I can already anticipate that any of our listeners listening right now, they're like, this is a guy that I'd want to work with. And, uh, you can clearly see why we haven't even gotten deep yet. I mean, tell me this. Like, what are some of the biggest financial mistakes that you consistently see?

Speaker A: Well, that's one of them. You know, Zach, what you just talked about described it, and I lived it. And the reason why I talk about it is because that was my life. I mean, when I first got married, I was just like every other you know, person in the United States, around the world. My wife and I, we butted heads about money. I mean, we were on the brink of divorce. But just like, I mean, money is the number one cause of marital disputes. I mean, one of the leading causes of divorce. And guess what? I was in that boat. And we kept butting heads. And it was my fault, Zach, because I thought, you know, me being a financial advisor was serving my wife by kind of, uh, not really being dominant, but really handling the money and trying to set things up. But it changed when we sat down together and did these vision boards and growth exercises. You know, really write out the exact life we want in detail. Not just, hey, this is our retirement home or dream home. Let's literally specific, be very specific, all the details of where that home is, what it looks like in the life that we want, in all the different categories. Okay? You asked the number one Mistake is before that time, I was a financial advisor and saving investing, Zach, it was boring. I didn't like it. You know what? Let me ask you, Zach, if you could save and invest or go spend and have fun, which one's more enticing to you?

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: I mean, so it is. But the thing is, once we got really clear on what we wanted to build together, not only it was a game changer for our marriage. I mean, we run businesses together, we run nonprofits together. My wife and I, um, it changed that. But also saving investing became entertained because we're building a life together. So that's the number one thing is get that because you talked about outwardly successful, inwardly stressed. I think those individuals, and I'm not judging them because I was obviously there, is that they haven't really got clear on, hey, what are we going after? What are we pursuing? What are we passionate about? And you know, on top of that, if you look at, you know, Facebook, you know, cause of depression and anxiety has gone up because people look at Facebook and they make the comparison game. Um, when you get very clear about what you want, the person you want to become, the life you want to live, um, um, all the people you want to help, you don't get as envious or jealous or looking at Facebook and envy syndrome. You can be happy for people, but you're so focused on, hey, what you're chasing down and excited about. Um, I think that's the number one mistake. People, you know, they don't get intentional about the direction their life is going to.

Speaker B: No. That's so wise, Nick. I mean, several things you just said, you know, one, the intentionality, it's. It's external versus internal. And if we're constantly external, then we are constantly chasing. Whereas when we go internal, now it's building something by our own design and creating that alignment, whether you are single or a couple. And I know many of our listeners are in, you know, long term relationships. Maybe you're married, maybe not yet. But I think that is such a simple but profound thing that I do not want anyone on this, on this call to overlook is that power of alignment. Now what I'm curious about, Nick, is I want to peel back the onion on that for a second.

Speaker A: Sure, sure, sure.

Speaker B: And I'll just use m. My wife and I, for example, okay? She, we. We are on opposite ends of the great polarity in virtually every context, like most spouses are. You know, I love it. Yeah, there's power in polarity when we can learn to harness it. And not, instead of becoming conflict and friction, we use it as an opportunity to grow and evolve as a, as, as humans, both together and independently. Now was, I have to imagine. I don't want to, I don't want to assume, but I presume that maybe you were more of the driver that, that brought up the idea of the vision boards. Now, this is just a curiosity, but I mean, was she, has she, she always been entrepreneurial? Was she open to the idea? Was she resistant? Was she the one that brought the idea? And you were like, I don't know, this thing seems kind of woo, woo. Like, how did that, uh, come together for you guys?

Speaker A: No, and that's a really good question, Zach. It really is because no one's really asked me that. Um, you know, we started butting heads and having these money, they're like the same money conflicts and disagreements over and over again. I realized, I mean, one or two things, I could just live with it and deal with it, or number two, go searching for answers because obviously what I was doing was not working. So I sought mentorship and wise counsel, and they gave me books to read, and they also gave me exercises to do. And so that's where I started the vision board and things like that, doing that exercise. Lo and behold, I come back one day, um, from work, and my wife was doing it by herself because I did it, just me, because that was a part of the exercise. Then she did it and it would just kind of happen. And we come together and she made a lot of things that were similar, but then we had a lot of things that were different. And I would say, most people, they'll say, yeah, we're different, but they don't take the time to really understand, okay, how specifically are we different? You know, one might be a natural saver, a natural spender. Well, really, there's no, there's no better or worse. Most people think, hey, if you're a natural saver, you're better. It's a better quality than being a natural saver. And I, I would say, or a natural spender. And I would disagree with that. I mean, just think about it. If you're a natural saver, yes, you invest, you pay down debt, but usually you don't have a lot of fun and you're not a very generous person. Okay, so. And again, I have many weaknesses, so I'm not judging anybody. But if you look at a natural spender, man, they have a lot of fun. And they will give you the shirt off their back and say, hey, come with Me, we're having a great time, but they're usually high debt. But the point, what I'm saying is, and you brought this up, Zach, is understand specifically the psychology behind yourself and those who you love to where you get a clear understanding. And then what's great is we have technology now and you can make things automated that get to take advantage of, uh, what everybody wants and desires and everyone's happy. So I'll give you that example again. Natural saver, natural spender. First money comes in. Natural saver. Hey, if you're putting so much back, paying off debt, investing for the future, the natural saver is happy. The natural spender, if you take a certain percentage and you put back towards giving and money in your account, that's called like a fun money that you have to spend on travel and family fund days. So you just need to understand who we are and what drives us and then you can set up things in a line with, with money and in your time. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, no, I mean, so talk a little bit more about what you mentioned. You, you brought up a tool. You know what, are there any tools in particular that you might recommend that could be a great starting point for people to explore and create that initial alignment And I guess what specifically are the, the outcomes of the tool or tools that you, that you mentioned?

Speaker A: Yeah, so the, the, the, the vision statement is the first tool is, is taking down. And what you specifically do is, you know, get 10 pieces of paper and you take about 45 minutes to an hour and you go to a quiet place and you write down everything you want in life, every single thing. And what helped me is I created categories first, like in faith and family and relationships, business, money. And then I get to write down and, and all the, the details. And then what you do is the second step is you go back and you circle what is most important to you. Now what I mean by that is, Zach, I had this couple on their first rough through run through. They had his and her Mercedes, okay? And there's nothing wrong with that, but when it came down to it, were they willing to work a little longer or put back more, sacrifice a little more to achieve that? And the answer is no. So they became very clear about, hey, what are things they want but what is most important to them. So that's the number one tool, I'd say, because it all starts from there. I mean, how are you supposed to end up and get to where you want if you have no idea where going? That is the very first one. And if you don't know that because these are tough questions. Spend some time and meditation, reflecting and ask yourself before you go to bed at night, what is the life that's going to make me happy? And your subconscious will take over and over the next couple days you'll start to see things that you, you might want and to enjoy. But it all starts from there. That is it. And then from there. Yes, there's a step by step process of understanding where your money's going. Budgeting. You're going to work 90,000, uh, hours of your life working. Okay, so if we're going to spend 90,000 hours of our life working, wouldn't it be somewhat smart to understand, hey, where's my money going? You know, I'm saying all this time, is it, is it aligned? And then my budgeting technique is a little bit different, Zach, in the sense that it's not just X's and O's. It's okay. Now look at your budget and what's moving the needle? Like how much money do you and I spend, Zach, that probably A, we don't even know we're spending on, but B, it's really not bringing us any more joy, peace, happiness, or helping us get closer to our end goals.

Speaker B: So it's easy to justify.

Speaker A: Absolutely. It is just taking the time to do it. Um, so I mean, but then from there, tools with technology, it's amazing. There's just so many things out there that you can take advantage of. Mhm.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, what would you say causes people to feel trapped financially? Is it lack of vision? Is it that they're earning a certain earned income and they don't see a way to earn more, is that they start to earn more. And then as a byproduct, most people start to spend more and they haven't, you know, built that foundation. Like what? Yeah, I mean there's probably no one thing. But what are maybe some of the most common things that cause people to feel trapped financially? And what are maybe a handful of suggestions that they can start to implement now to help carry them out? I mean, obviously we've got clarity. I mean you have to have a vision where focus goes, energy flows. I mean I tell people this all the time. Time is the, the, the, the, the truth is most people focus on their problems and. Mhm, guess what? You tend to get more of them. If we can consistently shift the focus to the things that we want, we're exponentially more likely to attract those things into our lives too. But you got to get clear on what you want first, and then we got to get alignment, particularly in a partnership dynamic, and then we have to actually create a real plan. So, I mean, outside of those three steps, as you mentioned so far, are there other pieces that cause people to feel more trapped financially and are they more psychological than they really are practical? Like talk about that if you would.

Speaker A: Oh, there's a ton. I mean, there really is, and I'm going to list some, and they're not in any order of importance, but number one is, yeah, the mental side. I mean, the mind is incredibly powerful and you just sit on what you focus on. You will get more of that is so important. If you tell yourself, you know, my life is terrible, I'll never have any better, you know, it probably won't happen happen or it won't. You know, going back to what you just talked about, Zach, most people, once you start taking small little steps towards your goal and, and having. It doesn't even have to be the hue, all, uh, the whole plan mapped out, but just once you start taking little baby steps towards the life you want, psychology and all the data will tell you more peace, more joy will enter your life. Less anxiety, less stress. So that's it. But number one thing I see people is it's not their fault. People want to do the right thing, they're trying to do the right thing, but they just don't know what to do. I mean, think about it. With technology now, it's paralysis by analysis. There's so much information out there. And that's the thing. I'm really careful when it comes to finances. There's a lot of really good information, but finances are so detailed that what worked for one person might not work for another. So when people just see, oh, XYZ works for Bob. Wonderful. God bless Bob. But that might not be good for Susie. And so that's the biggest thing. Or they might have tried something that worked for Bob and it didn't work for them, or they got bad advice. That's the biggest thing where they just, they lose hope. And that's the one thing I try to do, is give people hope of, hey, it can be better. I promise you it can be better. But I hope it happens on its own. But it's probably not going to happen on its own. You have to take the steps forward and put out a little bit of effort and start to improve this little by little. It's not going to improve overnight, but hope is, oh, oh, my goodness. And I had this lady come in and she was sitting with Me. And she was just recently divorced. And then she, poor girl, I mean, she got the bad end of a Sega. I mean, she's a wonderful lady, but it was a terrible divorce. And in our first couple of meetings, she just cried. And I really didn't know what to say. Um, but finally we started to talk. And I helped her find her what I call her money emotion. Because, Zach, people aren't looking for money. They're looking for what money can do for this. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's the life they're going to live, the. The things they can buy. But it finally clicked with her. She wanted, which is a very popular one, but financial independence. But the reason why it's powerful. She goes, I never want to be in this position again. I never want to have to totally rely on someone where I can't stand on my own two feet and financial independence. And a light bulb went off in her head. And all of a sudden she got real clear about what was she was searching for. And I can tell you today, uh, she's a multimillionaire. I mean, she's found love again, which I'm so excited for, but she's doing on her terms to where she's going in to where, hey, she. She's in love, um, and she's enjoying life, but she's completely financially independent, will remain that way the rest of her life. You know how powerful that is. Now, it didn't happen overnight. She got very clear on what she wanted. And then also too, I could show her, I did show her a way that it could be done. Done. So those are two things that I can hope is. Is. Is. Is in what you tell yourself and what goes to your mind are great first steps. Mhm.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I. I absolutely love that, Nick. I mean, there's so much. Those stories are fantastic too, because it reminds everybody that, you know, life's gonna happen. Like, it's not a question of if we're gonna have problems. I mean, the only people that don't have problems are in the graveyard. Problems are a sign of life. It's just what m meaning we apply those problems. And in so many cases, if we actually take a moment to really step back and reflect on any of life's challenges, nine times out of 10, they become a springboard to something even better. A problem is only a problem, I always say, if it's perpetual and pervasive. In other words, if we stay there, but when we can find what's beautiful in that challenge, in that moment, now we create an opportunity to break through to that next level that much faster. Now, uh, what. What inspired you, Nick, to write Rich by Choice? And what does that title actually mean to you?

Speaker A: Yeah, and that's a really good question, Zach, you know, inspired me is all the things that I learned. You know, when I was a kid, I was the middle youngest of four wild and crazy boys, and my dad was an entrepreneur. He was. We weren't rich, but we were, we were comfortable. Um, um. And you know, one day my, my parents divorced and my mom went from a stay at home mom of four to a single mom of four working three jobs. So literally overnight, I saw two sides of this world. I mean, as you can imagine, I mean, from a decent, comfortable life to, oh my goodness, you know, big house to small house. And what I remember, Zach, is it wasn't the stuff, wasn't the things that were missing, you know, big house on one side down to the tiny little, uh, tiny, tiny home on the other side of town. It wasn't that. It was, it was the emotional, physical pain that I watched and had to live through, you know, witnessing my mom and my brothers go through. And I thought that, hey, it was money only. I really did, because I, you know, I saw Flip side of the Coin, the two different worlds almost. And I thought, okay, once I get this money back and I have more money, it'll all go back to being better. And as I got older, through my life, whether it be playing professional basketball and investing the money, becoming a financial advisor, having quick success, my monetary income and status started to grow, but my joy and happiness wasn't going along with it like I always thought it would. So I call this the roller coaster of life. And what I mean by that is there's several different areas in our life. Like, I just started talking to, like, uh, our money and wealth started to grow, but my marriage wasn't going up with it. You know, I was still having difficulties in those areas. And so my goal was, as I went searching for answers and I found different stuff, secrets to all these different categories of life and how they can all align. And so that's what inspired me is because I was Zach, I had so much help along the way. So much help. Um, and I just felt the need to, hey, I wanted to share it with people and say, hey, it can be better. I mean, look at my life. I mean, I was a wealthy kid to a poor, poor kid to a quote unquote wealthy adult. But then at the same time, I was A poor adult. And so this roller coaster of having to get all things aligned and improved on was a process. And so. And it works. And I wanted to give it to people. That way they can have, you know, the same joy. Now what I am very honest about Zach, is my life's not perfect. Oh, my goodness, it's still not perfect. But what I can experience is, you know, more joy, more peace, more excitement, and less of, you know, the. The stress, the anxiety, and that's what I want for other people.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. I mean, thank you for vulnerability and for sharing that story. I mean, I have a. Some, you know, similar parallel. My dad did very well when we were younger. Um, he got the short end of a stick in a business venture, and I'll just leave, um, it at that. And, um, you know, I just watched it become the beginning of a very long, arduous journey for him and my mom. And it seemed like he never broke that pattern of getting out of the financial system stress threshold. You know, we had such a great life as kids, and, you know, they still continued to. I think I, like Dad, still find a way, found a way without making as much as he used to, to still live life to the fullest. But I don't feel like he ever felt that way is the. Is the irony behind it. And the thing, you know, my dad's older now and struggling with a pretty significant health issue and. And um, they just left after visiting. And I've been thinking about, you know, wanting to write him a letter and just tell him everything that. That all the values, um, that he shared, like how he's helped sculpt. Sculpt my brother and I, and. And uh, while we've taken very divergent tracks, my brother and I, he, uh, went more of the conventional route, I went more of the entrepreneurial, risky route, so to speak. And, uh. But just, you know, what it's meant. And the things that, that to your point, were more meaningful and all that were never the things. It was the experiences and the fact that, you know, he. He never missed one of our, uh, uh, games. Like, I mean, as a child, I can never think of being at a track meet, football game, basketball game, you know, anything where he was not there and present, you know, and find that time for us. Even when he was tired after a long day at work, we'd be outside playing basketball together, throwing a baseball round or, you know, whatever the things were. And it was boat in the Puget Sounds. Man, I love that, that, that. That principle of, you know, that Again, it doesn't have to become that sticking point. It's why I'm so conscious of our thoughts and how they define the. The ultimate direction. And you know what I'm. What I'm wondering is if you have somebody that's going through that time and, you know, we've talked about it, you just said, you know, midlife can actually be the greatest springboard. That's where most wealth is built for. So for somebody that's coming off maybe right now, that's listening, that's. That's gone through this incredible, what feels like, you know, major transformational period. Maybe they. Maybe they're struggling with fraud and they just lost a significant amount of money. Uh, maybe it was just a poor investment decision. You know, uh, maybe they lost the job. You know, where would you recommend. What do they do now? How do they help reset that psychology, build that frame? Is it starting with just the dream? I mean, and I can imagine that some people are, like, in their mind, they're going f. That I can't even think about what I want. I'm so stuck in scarcity.

Speaker A: Yeah. Like, where.

Speaker B: Where would you say to them?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think the first thing I. I had a couple come in and. And they were really down on the dump, so. And. And they didn't have anything like a fraud situation happened to them. But I think they woke up one morning and realized they weren't necessarily doing the things financially that they should have been doing the last 10 or 15 years. And. And they got a little behind or quite a bit behind, and they really bumped because possibly, you know, the. The total dollar figures or whatever investments weren't where they wanted it to be. And so that, I mean, that can be the result of just not doing anything or a result of bad, catastrophic things happening. But either way, you wake up and you're just not where you want to be. Um, but as I started talking to them, uh, they actually had a pretty great life. I mean, Zach, think about it. The. The dad went on golf trips with his son multiple times a year, was invited by not only his son, but his son's buddies to go and to spend that time. They were super close with their daughter and moved to live next door to them. Integrated, um, that, you know, in that Grandma and grandpa nicknames. And so as I got started to talk with them, they quickly realized, again, different areas of wealth, that, yeah, over here on the money side, which is important. Okay, I'm not. I'm a financial advisor. I'll tell you, it is important. But they had so many different areas of wealth and they're in good health that they didn't realize. I've known people that have chased money, money, money, money, and they got to that whatever, 50, 100 million, billion dol. And all these other areas they didn't have, and they woke up and regretted it. And so what I tell people, it's a good time to reset and think about it. And first, you know, I promise you, if you're alive today and you live in the United States, America, and you have good health, you got a lot going for you. I mean, I remember part of me playing basketball and going around the world. It gave me great life experience and perspective that not. I don't. You know, I know the United States is not perfect, but oh, my gosh, we are so blessed. I mean, think about it, Zach. If you wake up tomorrow and you want to start a real estate empire, could you. Yes. If you wake up tomorrow and you want to go into oil and gas or banking or what, could you do it 100%? Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, so we are so. I think that's the first step is understand the areas that you are rich. But then, yes, it's. It's. You got to realize and understand what you want. And you got to ask yourself, okay, everything good in life is going to take work ethic. You may have Nick Saban. Nick Saban. Everyone wants to be a champion, but no one wants to feel the pain. Everyone wants to be a champion, but no one wants to. To pay the price. I mean, I was playing college, we were playing Oklahoma, and I was in college basketball. And there's only 12 seconds left, and I do a little shimmy shake and I get. I get fouled. Um, and I. I make both free throws. So we go up one, we're down one. Now I hit two free throws, we go up one. So now there's only eight seconds left. The point guards coming up the floor. I pick them up, I'm backpedaling. Because Zach, when you're only down one, the smart place to attack the rim, right? The highest percentage shot in basketball. So I'm giving him space, coming back, and all of a sudden, he stops three feet short of three point line, lets it rip. And I remember I put my hand up because he caught me off guard. I jump up to try to block it, and as that ball left his hands, I remember thinking this. I go, please, God, no. And I turn around, and nothing but the bottom of the net. They win by two. We lose. But the point I'M saying is there is going to be challenges along the way. And at that point in time, I had two options. And I felt, don't get me wrong, I cried, Zach. I did. I broke, heartbroken. Just one of those tough losses in life.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But I felt sorry for myself. There's nothing wrong with that. I felt the emotion. I felt sad. But that next day I made a choice that I could either, you know, give up, whine about it, you know, woe is me, or I could, you know, just get back to work and keep grinding. Now, um, I'm. That's a. Not a story like as, as sad as someone being fraud or scammed. I'm not trying to make them even. I'm just saying, hey, you are going to go through tough times. It's going to happen. You just have to ask yourself, hey, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is the outcome that life you want? Are we ready to get back to work? And I think that's the most important because I think human beings, we are capable of anything we set our mind to. I mean, we are remarkable individuals. It's just, is it worth it to.

Speaker B: You know, it's interesting. I mean, there's two points to be made there. And one, you know, success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. You can have all the money in the world, but if all the other categories of life are lacking, then what do you really have? But then the other side of it is, you know, the one thing that, that used to drive me nuts. And I remember my, one of my, uh, old mentors I worked with, he said the same thing and now I've heard it is, is when people would say to you must be nice. It must be nice. And it's like, you have no idea what I have gone through, what I have sacrificed to create what I have created thus far in life. And I'm not done yet. But that's the thing is, it's, it comes back that Facebook analogy you talk about is people are looking at all the sunshine and rainbows and they've not seen the trials, tribulations and struggles. It's one of the reasons I speak so openly oftentimes about um, exactly those. Is I want people to realize, you know, it's not all ivory towers and gold plated toilet seats like you're gonna go through some really freaking difficult seasons. Now, Nick, as we, as we wrap up today's episode and I'm clearly seeing right now that we're gonna, we're gonna have to have your back because, uh, there's way more that we can get into. But one thing I wanted to ask is let's, let's assume that one of our listeners gives you full and complete control their finances for the next year. You know what, what would be the first three changes that you'd be most likely to make? And that's probably, to your point earlier, a very difficult question to answer because no two people are the same. And I want everybody to hear that first. But, you know, fundamentally, you know, what are the three biggest levers that you're most likely to pull?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'd say it's in alignment. The first three levers I'm going to look at is number one, risk. I mean, what are they doing and what is the risk versus reward when it comes to not only the investment strategy, but also their habits? We're going to make sure that they're in line like we're understanding, take the time to say all the things we talked about. What's important to them, who's important to them, what's the legacy they want to live? And Zach, I didn't even tell you this, but I need you to absolutely write that letter to your dad because I didn't mention it. And I challenge anybody who's listening right now do the same thing. Because I guarantee once your dad gets that letter, he won't even think about money or anything. Because that's so important. Because people think legacy is just about money. No, legacy is a ripple effect that you have on not only your life, your community, the people around you and the people you care about most. And so those are the first couple of changes that I'm going to make is, and then I'm going to see is, hey, what are they doing? Is it getting them or is it in line of where they want to be? And risk is huge because risk lets you know is, hey, what's the upside? But what's the downside? And when I remember this, when I first started interning back in the 2007, 2009 crash, I remember talking with people that weren't clients, but as they were going through who lost a lot, they really didn't know what they had, what they owned and why they owned it. I mean, they, they had things that they thought were just very simple. Most people think, if I told you, Zach, hey, you have a bond fund right now, a bond fund, you say, well, Nick, that's pretty safe. Um, but some of the bond funds out there were highly leveraged, which turned it into more like an equity or a high volatile investment where they 80%. Most people didn't realize they could. This is an extreme example, but most people don't understand what they own, why they own it, what's the upside, what's the downside, and how does that fit in and be correlated? Number two is taxes, Zach. Taxes are huge. No. And taxes are confusing, but no one takes time to understand the tax code and how they can use not only

Speaker B: the money we make, it's the money we keep.

Speaker A: It is. And I have no problem paying taxes. I love the United States of America. I'm so, uh, proud to be a U.S. citizen. But the thing is there's tax codes out there that most people don't even know exist. And you can take advantage of that, help you not only now, but they don't take the time. Also, again, understand what's my tax situation like five or ten years down the road? These are all just very, very important things that, that, that, that we do to help people. And then, hey, how do you protect it? Oh, if you're going to take the time to build something, make sure you know it's protected not only while you're alive, but after you're gone in the generations to come. And these are things that, they sound simple, but they're pretty complex. But a lot of people aren't doing them. And I don't understand why.

Speaker B: Well, that's the purpose behind having a, that's the power of a guide. And I think that's one of the things too is we oftentimes think it should be simple, it should be easy. We'd be conditioned to think that we should be able to do this all on our own. But one of the greatest gifts that I've ever gotten from my mentors is, is being able to avoid those costly mistakes, condense their decades of knowledge into days so I can get the same results faster. So smartest thing I believe that we can all do, and this works across context from our relationship to parenting, to health, to finance, to business, is get the right guide. And Nick, you would be a great gift as a guide. Now, one thing I want to ask you as we wrap up is, is imagine it's many decades from now. Your children, your grandchildren, your clients, the families you've helped, they're all talking about your impact. What would you hope they say your life's work stood for?

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, the thing is, would be they help. He helped make our life better. Mhm. I mean really that, that really is that he had a small part. Any success, any joy, any meaning that, that they Had. And that's very fulfilling to me. Um, especially not only. And my kids are right in there too. You know, obviously my kids, I want to be in their top three best friends. Um, but just if they look at the ripple effect of their life, did I happen to play a small role in it? It doesn't have to be the main role. It could be a very small role. But if I did that, I'm very pleased. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, I love that.

Speaker A: Nick.

Speaker B: Um, Nick. Ah, for those that want to learn more about your work, one grab a copy of Rich by Choice. Or maybe they want to connect with you directly, but where can they find you?

Speaker A: Yeah, actually, I'm so happy brought that up. I got a free gift for everyone. And it actually really aligns with your show. Um, because that's what's different about the book, because there's so many different categories to wealth. Just like your podcast, which I love. It's genius. And you want to be intentional and like you do use that word harmony, you want to be intentional and working on those. So when I say the word compound, most people think compound interest. Right? And very popular. Um, and so I have a free, um, chapter that we put into a PDF. If they go to richbychoicebook.com www.richbychoicebook.com click on free gift. You'll click on Compounding by Choice. And what it does is it shows you all the different areas in your life that are compounding. And if something's not growing, it's dying. And this chapter we received thousands on thousands of success stories all around the world. And some of, um, them really excited about it helped me in my own life because we help walk you through exercises that you get to understand, hey, what are those areas? Because everyone's a little bit different. Nothing, not right or wrong, better, worse, just a little bit different. And you get to understand it. But then also we have small, little daily and weekly activities that you can start to implement and you start to see those tick upwards. And I say, you know, it's not where you're at tomorrow, but where you at, you know, six months from now, a year from now, three years from now. And when we get to that end goal, do you have the life you want? It's all these different areas. Money is a part of it, but it's not everything. So if they go to richbychoicebook.com right there, they can connect with me, but they can also get this free gift, um, compounding by Choice. And Zach, I hope it helps you and everyone just as much as it's helped me.

Speaker B: I appreciate that, Nick. I mean, thank you. What a gift. I mean, and make sure you guys, uh, uh, look up Michael's family financial. Find the book Rich by Choice. Go to richbychoice.com and. And, uh, as a Rich by Choice book. Richby.

Speaker A: Yeah. Richbychoicebook.com.com so.

Speaker B: And I'll make sure we got that in the show notes as well. Uh, so you guys have no problem finding Nick anywhere and everywhere. And, Nick, this has been a fantastic conversation. One of the biggest lessons I took away today is that wealth isn't simply about accumulating more money. It's about creating more freedom, more peace, more confidence, more opportunities to spend time with people who matter most. I mean, live a life by your own design. Money is a powerful tool, but when it's aligned with purpose, family values, and intentionality, it becomes something much more meaningful. So thank you for sharing your wisdom, your story, and your perspectives with us today. Nick, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker A: Thanks, Zach. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.