Success Without Money: What Actually Matters | EP 77

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: The whole concept of Iron man and the Avengers. How can you take something really cool tech and build something that wasn't there before, right? Like, like the Iron man suit and bring something forward and then through that journey, define yourself and bring solutions that actually improve, uh, the future of those that will come after you. I think you've got to imagine a different reality and, and you've got to have some way to push yourself. You see somebody that you care for and you love and you're like, we got to figure this out.

Speaker A: What if success wasn't measured by the size of your company or your bank account, but by the number of lives transformed because you existed? Today's guest has raised over 19 million led organizations impacting thousands of students and families, built coalitions across healthcare, education, technology and philanthropy, and now is helping create life changing opportunities for children around the world through pediatric spinal care. Welcome back to the Perpetual Growth podcast. The show we explore the strategies, stories and mindsets that help you to continuously grow in our health, wealth, relationships, leadership and life. Because growth isn't just about something we achieve, it's about something we pursue, something we become along the way. And today we're diving into one of the most fascinating conversations we've had on the, uh, the intersection of leadership, innovation, philanthropy and global impact. Our guest, Art Serna. Uh, Art is the executive Director of Spine Hope, a global pediatric spine outreach organization working to provide life changing surgical care and sustainable healthcare infrastructure for children in underserved regions throughout the Western hemisphere. He's also the founder and chief Strategy Officer of Cosmo Renewed, where he advises leaders and organizations on AI driven transformation, cybersecurity, systems change, philanthropy and strategic growth. Over the course of his career, Art uh has raised more than 19 million in strategic capital led organizations serving thousands of students and families, driven significant operational transformation and built partnerships across government, education, healthcare technology and philanthropy. He has served as CEO, coo, executive director, strategist, educator, executive, and now humanitarian leader. Today we're discussing things like the future of AI and human centered leadership, venture philanthropy, building high impact organizations, raising capital for meaningful causes, cybersecurity and responsible innovation, global healthcare access, systems thinking, and what it truly means to create lasting impact. Art welcome to the Perpetual Growth podcast.

Speaker B: Zach, A real pleasure to be with you today and I hope our conversation brings value to the audience. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Absolutely, I'm sure it will. Art. Now you've, uh, you spent your career moving between education, technology, healthcare, philanthropy, non profit leadership and now global health. Most people spend their lives becoming experts in one Lane, you seem to operate across entire ecosystems. What is it that connects all those chapters together?

Speaker B: You know, Zach, what I learned, um, working with executive coaches is that finding a life of meaning really connects to finding your purpose. Right. And for me, the journey of finding my purpose in life has, uh, needed to include many different industries in many different sectors looking at problems. So ultimately I figured out that I find I find purpose by solving meaningful problems that mean something to humanity. So a, ah, way to kind of bring it home. So my, my daughter and I have a 14 year old daughter and um, we've been talking about the meaning of life and we've been watching the new series of Spider man and so there's a lot of focus on Tony Sparks and Iron man and, and how he evolved over time and also contributed to the future generation. And I followed a lot of congruency in that. And so we've been talking about what does that mean? Because I want her to learn, find her purpose. So over time that's what I've learned, Zach. Meaning getting really close to problems that are complex, that have real human pain and trauma within them, and then applying skill, every skill that I have, every knowledge that I have in building teams to solve them.

Speaker A: Yeah, what a beautiful gift. I mean, that resonates with me on two levels. I mean, one, yeah, I'm legally disabled, at least on paper. I always say I have herniated disc. My back, seven herniated discs, actually three lumbar, two thoracic, two cervical back surgery 20 years ago, laminectomy, partial discectomy. And uh, you know, the work you're doing is, is absolutely transformative. And then when I think about the journey and the conversation as a parent, um, you know, that, that, that initial pain became the impetus for me to take my education to extreme lengths and wanting to help people on their health and wellness journey. And then I fell in love with business through the process. And all the while I'm trying to teach my kids those same values. I mean, you know, the American standard is what are we told? Go to school, get a good job if you can, buy a house, save money. But where do they talk about joy and fulfillment? Where do they talk about actually pursuing your life's purpose? You know, the things that are really all it comes back to is, is ultimately the fulfillment and impact that we can have through that life of servitude. I mean, where did that come from for you? I mean, was this, were these same ideologies passed down from your parents? Was this something that you stumbled on through mentorships. I mean, when. When you look back at your journey, what originally pulled you toward leadership and, and sharing these values? I mean, not just with your kids, but obviously it's been something that's transcendent for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's definitely the, the, you know, the concept of the American dream and the journey of my grandfather and my parents, I would say they were, they were the perpetual entrepreneurs, right? But they, they were. They didn't fully know the language. They were just trying for the first time to break in. Dad tried many different things. He was a chef, he. He was electrician, he drove. He started his own trucking company at one point in life. And seeing them go through that struggle to provide for us who are second generation, um, was, I think, the fire Zach for us. And so when I think about the type of leader I wanted to be, the type of father I wanted to be, I wanted to lean into that entrepreneurial fire. And at the same time, my grandfather never, um, learned to read, but he built a lot of stuff with his hands. He was a farm worker in South Texas. Um, and. And he, he just impacted many lives. Just the way he lived life, built stuff in neighborhoods both in Mexico and in South Texas. And I, when I finished, I actually got an astronomy degree from the University of Texas. I was just fascinated by the stars and the patterns of stars and all of that in history. But, um, but I think I realized over time there was this real. In that journey of breaking through, right? Um, having limitations of language, you know, not fully understanding culture. Uh, although I was born in Texas, I spent the first years of my life in Mexico. Went, uh, to school there till third grade. So learn that journey of learning an entire new culture, learning a new language, it laid the foundation of, uh, grit, growth, mindset. And at the same time, this fire and desire to have things better off for kind of my. My next generation. Breaking through all of those kind of came into building that, um, that leader that I was to become. And I had this fascination with poverty, understanding poverty. I grew the trauma of poverty, the layers of that, the impact it has on families, health and well being, mental mindset, all of those things. Began to understand that as an individual, then as a leader than in building teams. And I, my minor at the University of Texas, uh, aside from astronomy, was Latin American studies. And I had this fascination of understanding systems in terms of nations, economies, why are some poor, why do others succeed? So in all of that, although I've had this great desire for business and technology, I chose to apply that within the nonprofit and educational sector. Because I just got you very close to all of the intersection of all of those components. Trauma, pain, you know, economic realities. At the same time, the concept of how could technology bring solutions? So again, coming into kind of the whole concept of Iron man and the Avengers, how can you take something really cool tech and build something that wasn't there before? Right. Like, like the Iron man suit and bring something forward and then through that journey, define yourself and bring solutions that actually improve, uh, the future of those that will come after you. Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's an inspiring journey and a beautiful mindset. And one thing I'm curious about is if is, you know, I'm a perpetual student of behavioral psychology. I've had the opportunity to work alongside some of the best teachers and uh, practitioners in the world. And you know, as you're talking about the traumas and the generational impact and you know, I know the significance of, you know, the mentality and um, uh, memory. And have you found parallels between the individuals and the countries? I mean, you talked about how it started out on that individual level and seeking trauma and impact and then how that could affect our, you know, financial well being and futures. And then also studying that at an economic level with whole countries. Are there, are there parallels between what drive, you know, ultimately, quote, unquote, success versus failure?

Speaker B: I mean, I'm not by any means an expert and I feel like you are, but I think what I draw from is having traveled, say for example, to Cuba several times and connecting with a generation of people. I do think environmental factors have a deep, deep impact on what kind of builder you are. Um, I mean, you think about the concept of like cognitive dissonance and even having the opportunity for a new model, new framework, a new way of thinking to actually cause something in you to, to switch, right, to, to grapple with something you just didn't have. Well, when you don't have access to information, like access to Internet, access to other. I I just, I just think, I do think, um, um, the level of moments of truth I would call them, that you're able to have. And at the same time I've known, um, kind of millennial type age folks in Cuba who desire a different future, agnostic to whatever, like political affiliation you have. The reality for them is that they don't have an avenue to define, you know, to own their own business in that sense. Right. And, and in that they have this burning passion to be entrepreneurial. I mean, what folks can do with cars in Cuba and taking Taking a shell and building it from many different parts. It's incredible. Very entrepreneurial people. Um, and yet at the same time it's very challenging for them to fully develop into who they desire to be. So to answer your question, I do think there's parallels of seeing the impact of trauma, generational trauma over time, right. When you, you, you, where you see people that you love and they're struggling to feed themselves, to get medical supplies, all of those things, it does have an impact on you, uh, and it just weighs on you tremendously. So I do think that there's connection and beyond Cuba, having worked in urban communities, um, that have deep um, histories of generational trauma and poverty, lacking with educational systems, I would just say like NPS here, Milwaukee Public Schools, we've got about a 40 million dollar gap in budget. Many of our kids that we graduate cannot read. It's the largest school system in, in Wisconsin. So when you get, when you begin to see that, right. And, and the number of um, when you look at that number with the new superintendent, you know, she was reflecting on her State of the Union and at the one of her first years they'd seen in the fourth quarter of the school year more um, deaths by violence that she's like, this is not normal. So I do think at the systems level and at a national level it becomes a reflection of kind of the individual journey. It just multiplied many times into a system and you see that as the fruit and the yield of the know the measures of success and what's happening. So I do think there's reflections and I benefited from seeing those type of patterns both traveling to different nations, looking at their systems, um, more so in healthcare and education. Being my lens into that type of uh, issue. Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I guess uh, an interesting follow up question this is if

Speaker B: why

Speaker A: do so many leaders, you know, whether it's the leader of the household, the leader of the business or leader of world governments, focus on symptoms instead of the root cause?

Speaker B: That's a load of question. I think, I think I'd be a billionaire if I had to, you know, answer. But what I've learned, my perspective in that is is proximity matters and your, your level of proximity to the problem that you're trying to solve. Um, it, it can make, make it or break it. Right. It's just the concept of innovation and, and being able to bring your skill set um, to like a different industry, a different type of problem. But bringing that requires you to be super proximate to individuals that are living that shared experience of impact. So having sitting from like young people within a ah, school system, that's failing. And I've had the opportunity to do that and, and hear from them directly, right what they actually know to be true. Uh, and even things that they can't even conceptualize yet. But seeing the impact in their lives right when they, when they cannot adequately read and seeing that in a 17 year old, right who's been moved through a system. So sitting in front of that and seeing it and the impact that it has on their family and their desire or their ability to even conceptualize what a future for them could be like I could become X. Some of them have never seen like just blocks away like the Great Lakes, right. They live in a bubble. Um, so all of those concepts I think are important and proximity to any leader that in your audience that's building, I think people are trying to build something that's meaningful. I imagine a company, a product, a service and, and sometimes they're, they're just copying, right? They're, they're, they're looking at something that's working and trying to do it. And I would say what's a secret sauce that I've seen is if you can take something, see what works like compare it to something. Have I ever seen something like X work, um, and begin to build something that just slightly an improvement but then really know yourself to figure out what can I bring to it that's unique to this issue that would actually change it, right. And you, you develop a better company, a better product, better service. And I just found that to do that you, you've got to be very super present to the problem and not with your solution, not butt into your solution but be infatuated with the problem and then allowing your solution to be let go because it might be a D level solution and to get to the A solution. Um, and right now Zach, one of the things that I'm seeing is the trends with micro schools, for example, like individuals like teachers that have been super within larger systems and they know they can do it better and they're trying to look because they've lived it, they've set cross students. And I think many business leaders can gain insight in how they lead teams and or departments by understanding this concept of being close to their employees, their shared experience. Um, and if they did that for a period of time I think it would be transformational to their leadership.

Speaker A: It's so fascinating because so often we're taught to zoom out in order to, to actually be able to clearly identify what the real problem is. I mean, are we solving for the real problem? Are we solving for the symptom? And a lot of what you're suggesting there, at least initially, is we got to get closer to the issues. We have to actually absolutely create that time, space and energy to really understand what's going on in that individual's world or the impact in the organization community, any context. I love that. That's a, um, definitely a different lens to look through. Tell us about Spine Hope. I mean, what, what um, what is the problem that, that the, that your organization's solving?

Speaker B: Yeah. So when you look at the population overall, you, you see that 2 to 3% of kids globally, uh, suffer from scoliosis, some form of spine deformity. And, and many of those cases, we actually don't know why the trigger to that scoliosis is. Um, but um, some of those have a curvature that is above 70%, 100%. Right. So it's really impacting their organs and impacting their development. Um, and for some of them it can become life threatening. And when you look at, um, healthcare systems across the world, many of them live in communities that don't actually have the knowledge base, the surgical knowledge, the equipment, um, to actually pull them off. So we've worked at Spine Hope over now. We're nearly, uh, reaching 20 years now. Um, um, I'm newer to their journey and their story and that's, that's the board coming in saying we want to actually elevate, uh, the mission and really accelerate how many kids we can actually serve a year and have multiple sites across the world. But we've worked in places like Ukraine, Costa, um, Rica, Ecuador, Nicaragua and others, Colombia. Uh, and what we found is that um, the families that we're typically working with are desperate. They, they have this, this, they understand, right, that they're the complexity of the problem. Because you see this children, many of them, it impacts their ability to walk. And in extreme cases like they can barely get around, uh, they, they have a difficulty just sitting in a chair, right? Because as, as, as they grow and, and that issue escalates, it's impacting their quality of life tremendously. Um, and they're reaching out to Spine, uh, Hope through our website or through their medical team in house because they've somehow found out the work that we do. So what we do for your listeners, um, we have a team of surgeons, pediatric orthopedic surgeons that are top of their class all across the US Mostly based in Austin, Texas. We have some in la, we have some in Florida, um, that commit from kind of their philanthropic heart to bring their gift and their craft, uh, to build a team, surgical team. We typically travel, um, anywhere from 10 to 12 individuals. Um, so it's the surgeons plus all the required support medical teams that we need. And we travel to these countries, we typically spend an entire week there. We'll have four surgery days and then we're just walking through surgery. So those surgeons are there from like crack of dawn till the end of evening doing surgeries on children with deep, uh, complexity. And some children, they're so complex we can't actually do immediate surgery. We have to do something called Halo Gravity, where, where they have to have a device that goes around kind of their skull and they have to process through that. So it prepares uh, their spine to have this surgery. But what I find is that that change, Zach, when they, they get that uh, type of surgery, it is transformational, uh, the change that you see, right, and, and the ability for them to play soccer, to run a marathon, um, after that and basically you make available a pathway to their future that they couldn't have before. And we do that through, you know, philanthropy. And then what. One of the things we're interested in right now and why they brought me in from like my, my master's in management technology is thinking through this concept of how do we scale the ability to see more cases over time. Uh, our goal right now is by 2031 to get to a thousand cases that we would have, um, seen surgery cases and then scaling beyond that. So what would it look like to lean into the humanitarian AI and building a layer of intelligence in the places that we can to accelerate the path to see. Bringing up another site. Right now we're focused on Ecuador and Nicaragua right now, but we, we've got interest to do so in Brazil and in Mexico and other places. So that's, that is my work at Spine Hope. And it, for me, it blends all of these components together of my life journey. Finding purpose and calling and serve, building things operationally, teams, uh, technology, infrastructure, um, it all brings it together. And I think bottom line for me is that it gives me, ah, a line of sight into trauma both in a countries, right? Like what is the impact of having systems that don't truly work or haven't evolved yet to serve humanity in their context. But at the same time we saw very, very external, physical, uh, needs. You can see it, right? You see a child with severe scoliosis or spine deformity. You can see the Impact, but there's a lot of invisible impact right of years of having lived through that. Like I can't go in public, I can take off my shirt. Mental trauma that goes there, that doesn't just 100% go away after you finish, finish the surgery. It takes time to change that mindset and we have a long term commitment uh, to also support young ah, people that are alumni in our program to have opportunity to find networks where they can actually now think through. I want to be a doctor, I want to be a business leader and entrepreneur and tapping our social network to make that available for them.

Speaker A: What a beautiful gift. I mean I love the fact that you guys are um, making such a concerted effort to support people globally that are in need of such a significant and life changing type of care and, and that you're going beyond just the surgery itself and also focusing on the human and the mentality and the um, you know, emotional and psychological aspects of recovery. One thing I'm really curious about is you mentioned this, this um, the scoliosis affects, I mean roughly 2 to 3% of the global population. I mean that seems like a really significant number. Has that big number grown over time? And I believe I heard you say we have no idea what's causing, I mean something about that to me is both shocking and terrifying.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean there's, there's a particular type of scoliosis that we don't, which is the most prevalent that we don't, we, we don't know what causes it. It's just true. And, and I would say yes, as the numbers at least from our lens uh, are, are very, very large. So our waiting list continues to build over, over, over the years and um, the systems aren't scaling fast enough. So one of the, one of the, the founders, Matthew Geck, uh, of this founder of Spine Hope, one of his commitments is um, you know, I, bringing an educational component, capacity building into the sector. Right. So helping grow the capacity of medical teams locally by using education fellowships to equip local medical teams to be able to do those on their own. So for example, they do have a proof point of doing it in Costa Rica for a period of time where they were backlogged in nearly cases that they were behind and that they couldn't quite keep up with. And so with the work of Spine Hope over a number of trips they were able to support and build up the team capacity where they could take, they could take those cases and catch up and, and that's over long term. Our goal is to as we are going into countries we're building, we're identifying potential future surgeons that are in the pipeline that we can help support and, and through, um, deep learning with our team and then fellowships coming back into the hubs that we have here in America, uh, supporting them long term so they can actually keep up with the pace of the need. But yeah, I would say tragically, Zach, that the systems are not quite, or at least to date haven't adapted fast enough, both on the talent pipeline. Right. Uh, locally in those um, developing countries. Uh, but then I also think there's real bottlenecks even in the type of work we're trying to do of just data sharing. Right. Like uh, being across medical teams here to local teams there, protecting data as we share it. Also bringing, we work with medical device companies like Medtronic and Globalist and others that are, uh, supporting us through um, donations of um, the equipment that it takes to do these complex surgeries. And so it's building that network. And I believe that we're in a time where uh, if we use um, the potential for artificial intelligence with guardrails, building this concept that I call humanitarian AI, uh, with real purpose. Right. So we're not creating slop, we're solving real problems. Uh, and you do so with multidisciplinary teams. I think we have a real opportunity over the next three or five years to do something incredibly meaningful, uh, that takes the best of tools that we currently have and building, I would say military grade level AI agents and things that are, are grappling with solutions in the right ways, with the right layers and having human agents that are very familiar with these type of issues kind of be the, the ones that lead it.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, one thing I'm curious about from your perspective are, I mean this is so much currently dependent on a limited scope of available surgeons globally that have the skill set and aptitude to be able to perform form. And I know that um, uh, robotic surgeons have become something that's becoming more widely utilized and integrated into surgical practices. Not necessarily fully autonomous yet, but um, when we look at the rapid development of these new technologies, is that something that you guys are exploring at all as a potential opportunity to be able to, you know, scale the, the level of service and impact that you're making?

Speaker B: You know, I, I've, I've found in, in the work that we do that um, you know, there's a lot of pushback right now, I think in some cases, rightly so, to the use of these new technologies. And what do they mean for humanity. Uh, and at the same time, you hear the other argument, uh, right from a. Like I said before, if you, if you have a purpose and a calling and you're super proximate to the problem, you actually have a problem that you're trying to solve. I think you look at that issue of, um, leveraging these emerging technologies for good. I know some people hear that and they're like, well, is that really true? It's just a billionaire kind of talking because they want to profit. But when you, when you're sitting in front of a family, uh, or I get these letters every week, right, either through our social channels, um, an individual or a young person that says, you know, I've had this critical issue with my spine, and, and I have no other avenue. Like, if you spine Hope, don't do it, no one else will. Can you come? So I just sprained that to lean into your. Your, Your, Your answer to your question, Zach. I do. I think we have to think about those things, right? What is the avenue that we can get to so we can have, um, the tools necessary to support a local team to perform that, whether it's in education and training, where we can use these kind of robotic solutions with intelligence and the human agents that we have, the surgeons we have as kind of the guides of that creating learning environments where that can scale more quickly. Um, I think we have to think about that. That's what our teams. After we spend a full day doing these surgeries, the team goes out to dinner and they're thinking about, how do we improve? How can we do better? And so we have to grapple with those realities. I think for us, organization like Spine Hope, it's a matter of how do we get the message out, both from a recruitment perspective, bringing more surgeons in that are the cutting edge of thinking through innovations within this space. So we have to do that. And I'm glad that, um, organizations like SRS and others are trying to kind of push the research arm into the future, uh, because they're doing research and development in that sense in that space. And then I would say we're. We're more like boots on the ground. We're executing and those things kind of move forward. Uh, I would hope that we are finding champions and ambassadors that are using robotics and, um, uh, AI agents in these type of solutions, uh, to bring responsible AI to the forefront very quickly because, uh, there's real tears, there's real impact, there's real limitations right now. And the thing with scoliosis, that if There is a time sensitivity to it. Right. Like if you, if you mature that uh, you know, as a child, as your bone structure scales, that there is this window of time where we can deliver better results if we catch it in time. Uh, that if you, if you're fully grown, it just becomes a different issue. Uh, as an adult, um, yeah, obviously you can do that. And having seen my dad, you mentioned you, you went through this in your lab. My dad had multiple spine surgeries over his life and, or really complex multi hour surgeries just to just be able to function. And so I've seen the impact of that personally. So this type of stuff as a builder and as a leader, uh, as a speaker and just uh, somebody is trying to influence the future of work and humanitarian AI goes, uh, I, in some ways we don't have the latitude of time. In a sense we're, this is an urgent kind of call to action and I do hope these technologies evolve fast enough that we can bring some of these solutions faster to families that are struggling.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, Art, on that note, I mean, you know, as someone who's a builder, speaker, humanitarian, I mean many people listening want to make a difference. You know, they want their businesses, their career investments, leadership to mean something beyond themselves. And I think they often feel overwhelmed by the size of the world's problems. I mean for somebody listening today who wants to create more impact, and I know this is not the easiest question to answer, but where do you start? You know, it's like you've talked so much about, and what I love uh, so much about your story is it wasn't like you just picked a lane. You know, one thing I frequently have said to clients is it be resolute in your outcomes, but be flexible in your approach. And I think this is a, you're a perfect example of that is you, you, you leaned into your skill sets and leveraged opportunities to explore across industries, across context until you found the areas that you have the greatest ability to make an impact and pursue those passions and create the most, you know, impact and fulfillment. I mean when, when somebody is, hasn't necessarily had that exposure, um, they have the desire, but they don't even know where to start. I mean, is there.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great, yeah. So. Well, for one, there's a book I read in my journey called Immunity to Change. I would encourage folks to, to one read that book. Um, it's almost like a compilation of different things, uh, of, of uh, like getting into human tendencies and, and how difficult systems and individuals are just to change, but immunity to change. It's a good, been a good resource. But uh, what I've learned is that um, that first of all you've got to, you've got to be with yourself. Like, you've got to understand your true why as an individual, not just in the business side of things, but just in life in general. Uh, sometimes that uh, you know, different people have, have that moment where it unlocks that ah, unfortunately many people, you know, go through life and, and they're living somebody else's life in a way, somebody else's vision and, and they're in a system. And the system will always define you if you let it. And if you don't have this center of gravity, right, or this deep inner being of yourself knowing, then uh, before you even try to go solve a problem like this. Yeah, I, I would say be with yourself. Figure out what it means for you to reinvent yourself. And I think for me the benefit of going through multiple industries, reinvention always means you're always learning something new. Because you go in, you're like oh snap. Like I, I, I've, I've a, I have this level of knowledge, this level knowledge from before, but this, in this context and over time you're constantly building your capacity to learn new things and reconstructing yourself. But my encouragement to people is if they go through that journey and find themselves, then I think they need to get proximate to a problem. So for example, what we do in as, as we build out these missional teams, uh, we're going to Nicaragua in October. You know, we, we bring individuals with us to as volunteers, they bring a skill set and they get to experience the journey with us, be on the ground, meet uh, families, see what we do, meet the surgeons, meet the medical teams. And what I find is when people put themselves in a different environment, unlike what they are used to, they also are able to ask more meaningful questions to themselves. And I find that in that service to another, as opposed to just being so focused on yourself that you in service to another individual, you typically find better answers to your deep questions. And in that it, I think it helps you um, figure out how do you start. Sometimes if you're in similar context, your own office, your own rhythms of the day, it's very difficult for you to get to that level of clarity. So just get out of your shell, get out of your context and environment. Go do something meaningful with somebody else. Right now I like part of my ongoing commitment in finding this new breed of leaders that um, have a different meaning for what quality of life means and how they build solutions and products. I co build solutions with young people, Zach, because I think it helps me see the future. So, for example, my daughter and I were part of the presidential AI challenge. Uh, we didn't get to go to D.C. um, but, uh, she was able to build a solution for foster care, um, that was very unique to her, her eye for interior design. She's 14, but she won, uh, the technical build for Wisconsin. She was the Wisconsin middle school champ for that. Um, and so, and then at the same time, I'm building with another, um, a junior in high school. His name's Sebastian. He's building like 2D indie gaming as a youth to solve for, um, challenges of mental health in young people, like body image trauma, those type of things. So I find that when I give myself to do that there's, I mean, I'm saying there's not like nothing in it for me. There is. It's relationship and it's understanding, like building something new with somebody. That co building does something to me. It gives me purpose and meaning. So I would say that's my recommendation of doing something really tangible and meaningful that, um, because sometimes, even for us later in life, you've had enough experience where you've had a failure or two. Uh, and I, I think for that and I, and some are major. And I found that even in my failures, um, through time that um, you know, you get pushed to maybe stop dreaming and, and that's so unhealthy for who we become. And, and so part of my healing journey over time is to dedicate some of my time to support somebody else that has never have somebody affirm them in their dream. Right. And to get a text from Sebastian on Father's Day, uh, as. Just to say you got your own kids, but the fact that you've given time to believe in me and, and my future as a builder of a game, it means deeply me. It's, it's a lot. You're kind of a mentor to me. Now. That was a long answer to your question, but I, I, uh, would say relationship matters. You got to be in relationship with people to truly find. Like, how do you get started? Because people will tell you if, if you are adept at building relationships, and we do this in our, our outreach teams. When we're on a plane, when we're serving families in Nicaragua over dinner, people will get to know you. They'll understand what makes you tick, what gift you bring to the world. And they'll invite you into opportunities that you would never have if you weren't in that space.

Speaker A: Mhm. So many takeaways from everything you just shared. I mean, I don't even know how to recap that. I mean that was such a fantastic segment for all of our listeners. Make sure you guys double back and listen. Listen to that last three to five minutes. Because Art left a number of tangible takeaways. I mean, one thing that I love is your perspective on failures and how you know. And I, because I firm, I wholeheartedly agree. I mean I, I often believe they become the springboard to something even greater. Yeah, I mean, I always say a problem is only a problem if it's perpetual and pervasive. I mean, in other words, if we stay there, you know, if we can find what's good in that challenge or what we can learn or how we can use it to expand our mindset or way of thinking and make that same problem or perceived challenge can really become a gift. And I also like how uh, you immediately thought about the uh, opportunity to. The best thing I can do is get outside of me and go serve somebody else. Lift them up. I mean, just incredible mindset. Now. I, um, this episode went extremely fast or I cannot believe how less, uh, 40 minutes have flown, uh, by here. Uh, I'm struggling to figure out where I want to take the conversation. I, um, you know, I want to think about building a future. I mean, you know, you often talk about future ready systems.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What, what does that mean?

Speaker B: What it means to me. And I've had to develop this um, capacity to live from the future. M. Right. Because the present, sometimes it's really messed up. Especially if you've lived a trauma and like you've been abused and all the things. Like, because experiencing that as a human, it does something to you. And, and with somebody that's journey through, through myself in, in my journey of that like individually and, and, and just you. It's, it's easier obviously to look at the good and, and do that. But I think those that are willing to open the door to grapple with the stuff that may not be so good and then imagine that there's a deep longing in you for something different. But I, I've learned this practice of living from the future, uh, of being able from like conscious leadership, adaptive leadership. Imagine a future that's different. Like I imagine a world where every child that struggles with scoliosis or some type of spine deformity will have access to the quality Care that they need at the time that they need it. Right. And, and that you're not just vocalizing that, but you're actually being a. Conceptualize it and seed into the future and you live in that place. Sometimes it's very difficult for teams that I've worked with because I, uh, because I believe the world can be better and I live from that frame. The people that don't see that, that are very present, they uh, get very frustrated at times with it because I draw from that energy into the present so that I can build and engage with people. And I was talking to one of these builders I was working with. I was like, I've actually seen you in the future. I've conceptualized you as a game builder in the future and the impact you're going to have. And that actually slows me down to see you in a different way. You're not just a junior who start figuring out how to code. I've actually seen the capacity of what you can become. And again, uh, you have this thing behind you, but what Tony Sparks, Iron man did to Spider man, that concept as a teenager high schooler, I actually see something in you that you can't see yet. Ah. And so I've seen that, I've built that in myself over the years and I. Zach, I just feel like I want to say this for some folks, um, on your call that sometimes those failures that we go through, um, you know, I'm not saying it's just a matter of perspective, but many times we, humanity can be okay with failure in some cases and not others.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So for example, when you look at Milwaukee Public Schools, a public educational system, and you look at the metrics and you look at the money spent and it's, it's a system that is lived at some level at major skills in perpetual failure. And it continues. And when somebody would, you might look at your case and be like, I'm a failure and that's not okay and I can't keep on. And I would just encourage you that there's many concepts and perspectives of failure that humanity is okay with.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And don't, do not count yourself out by that. You just reimagine yourself. Right. And, and so, uh, hopefully that's helpful to some. But as a future ready systems builder, I think you've got to imagine, um, a different reality and you've got to have some way to push yourself to do that. And the way I do that again is by proximity having the voices and experiences of other. I mean some people call it empathy or m. Emotional intelligence, but the love in a sense. Like you see somebody that you care for and you love and you're like, we got to figure this out. Because as just a hireling or an employee versus when you're, when you're a builder and you truly love what you do and you have actually an audience that's going to benefit that, that love or care for humanity, um, will push you to reinvent yourself as many times as necessary to get it done. That's how I see kind of future ready systems and future ready builders, how they find their path.

Speaker A: Ah, it's a beautiful perspective. And I love again, I mean, you know, I share something similar. I mean the problems, failures. I don't believe in failure. We either succeed or we learn. The only time failures become failures, I mean to your point is if we stay there and I think the greatest gift we can give ourselves is again is remembering that proximity is power. And it's an incredibly powerful tool to surround ourselves with people that are operating at a higher level than us, that are going to challenge our current paradigms and beliefs and ways of thinking and help expand our worldview. It's um, something that I don't feel like is shared often enough or at least those environments are created often enough. As we wrap up today, I have so many questions I like to ask, but um, you know one thing. I mean you wore a lot of hats throughout your career. I mean CEO, executive director, strategist, fundraiser, technologist, board member, community builder. Which, which role do you believe, if you had to pick one, has taught you the most about yourself?

Speaker B: Now that's a phenomenal question. Um, I would say, I mean they all intersect at the concept of builder. Like I, um, in every context, whether it's non profit or governmental, you are um, you're fundraising because you believe that there is a future reality, um, that's potent, possible, right? You're building a new system, you're building a new safety net. Um, you're, you're building a new service or product. And, and for me it's, it's this concept of um, the humanitarian builder that very much lived in the heart of my grandfather. So for me it's, it's a legacy that I'm seeking to now build in uh, with a different tech stack I guess I would say instead of skills to see a world that he envisioned. And, and in many, in many ways, you know, he's got a. From my grandfather who couldn't read to now a grandson who's you know, finished his master's degree been over multiple countries and seen like millions of dollars raised to support the future of humanity and people with deep pain. I think he, I would like to say I think he, he would be proud and he's looking down proud, uh, at that. And, and I, I think for me it's, it's um. Some different people in my life, Zach have contributed in many different ways to my development or in my failures were there when, when I needed them to be, they picked up the phone, they were present or, or they, they came in proximate relationship and, and I'd say whatever you, whether you're building your company, you're going to need that tribe around you that, that sees you for who you are, maybe even beyond yourself and can, can do that. I, I call that the unknowns rising. I think there's a new breed of leaders that are um, having their opportunity in this, in this unique intersection of humanity where we're building one of the most transformative technologies humanity's ever seen. And, but in that relationship is in humanity. Empathy is still going to define the way we shaped all of this. And that's the way I chose, I choose to live every day to do that. And, and my, the future, I guess the, the remainder of my life I want to dedicate to build meaningful stuff, uh, that benefit humanity, but do it in a community of people that feel the same way. And I feel whether that leads to a ton of monetary benefit, I think my biggest desire is to have deep relationships with people who care about the same and are building this stuff together. And I found that that gives me energy every single day to get up and do the work. Um, and so I'm trying to find those people that are shaped that way and are trying to build that across industry because I think that multidisciplinary cross industry think will keep us um, critically thinking. Uh, and I think we need that uh, to lead well in kind of the AI era of intelligence.

Speaker A: Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. Again, I love, cherish, value, your mindset belief systems, I mean the driving force of it that compels you. I think I wholeheartedly agree. A life of services is uh, a life of fulfillment. There's more than enough pain to go around and there's also more than enough abundance and we can, we can find that convergence point and be a force for good. I think it's a, it's, it's not only a duty, it's a gift. I mean art for, for those who want to learn more about your work, support spine Hope, connect with Cosmos, renewed. Um, subscribe to Omega Pulse or simply follow your journey. I mean, where should they go?

Speaker B: Yeah, I encourage folks to find me on LinkedIn. Uh, for sure. Uh, but spinehope.org they can keep up. If they ever want to volunteer, come on a trip with us. Uh, they should go there. Uh, and then last of all, Unknowns Rising.com is where I carry more. My personal journey of kind of the intersection of all these things so they can keep up with that and reach out. I've got an assessment on that website. If you're like, I don't know if I'm that kind of builder or not, they can take that assessment for free on unknowns rising.com and I just say, reach out. Build community, build relationship. I'd be happy to meet with them.

Speaker A: Uh, that's amazing. All right. I mean, all right. This has been an absolutely, incredibly powerful conversation. And sincerely, sincerely value and appreciate your heart and the energy that you bring to everything and your perspective. It's truly a gift to humanity. And one of my biggest takeaways is the future isn't something that simply just happens to us. It is something that we build. And whether we're talking about artificial intelligence, philanthropy, healthcare, leadership, global systems, I mean, the common threads are responsibility and connectivity. And technology alone won't save us. Capital alone won't serve us. Ideas alone will save us. But when purpose, innovation, leadership and action come together, extraordinary things become possible. So, all, uh, right, thank you for sharing your wisdom, your perspective.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Your mission with us today. And to our listeners. Thank you for joining us. The Perpetual Growth podcast. We'll make sure we have all of Art's contact information, the show notes. And remember, growth doesn't happen by chance. It happens by choice. We'll see you all next time.