Curveball Crushers: Joelle Kaufman Redefines Leadership and Success in the SaaS Industry

[Carl] Hello and welcome to the SaaS Growth Podcast . This week we are here with Joelle Kaufman. She is the founder of GTM Flow, a consultancy targeting SaaS companies and helping them grow. How are you today, Joelle?

[Joelle] I'm doing great. How are you, Carl? [Carl] I'm very good, thank you. How is California?

You're in California, right? [Joelle] I am, and the sun is shining, and the clouds are nowhere to be seen. [Carl] Just a normal day in California. [Joelle] In late October.

Yeah, another month will hit the rainy season. [Carl] Yeah. I think another month for me is when I just get no sunlight for four months or so. [Joelle] You are considerably further north.

[Carl] Very jealous. Can you talk us through GTM Flow and how it came to be? How you got involved in helping other people's companies? [Joelle] We probably have to run the clock back to 1996 when I got into tech with an AI company called Firefly.

I accidentally fell into tech and what was then called an application service provider - that is, we hosted our technology and our client plugged into it through some kind of API. Now, we’d call it cloud. So, I’ve been in this space almost 30 years, and I’ve worked in product, sales, marketing, and customer success. During the pandemic, I realized I loved building teams and companies, but I had also developed a method that many were using across companies like Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.

I wanted to scale that method. That led to GTM Flow. I codified my approach - the Curveball Method - and started working with leaders eager to improve results and handle curveballs. Curveballs are unexpected, usually unwelcome events, and they’re daily occurrences in leadership because simpler problems are handled by the team.

So, I focus on those with a line to revenue because it’s easy to measure impact and diagnose issues. [Carl] So you mentioned the Curveball Method. Could you explain that to my listeners? [Joelle] Sure.

The Curveball Method begins before you start your day. It’s about how you engage with each day and respond to whatever comes your way. There are five factors to this approach: Focus on what’s really important - distill what’s critical versus just informational noise. Use your strengths - both yours and your team’s, because those are your immediate resources.

Mindset - respond with “Cool, I get to deal with that,” rather than “Oh no, I have to deal with that.” For me, facing cancer was an unexpected curveball, but I chose to minimize its impact on my life. Resources - understand what’s available: money, people, time, partners. Leadership - how you connect, communicate, and commit through the situation.

With the Curveball Method, you build these capabilities and learn how to use them quickly. It’s about assessing and saying, “I’m ready to proceed.” [Carl] When you apply this with companies, what are the first areas you look at for improvement? [Joelle] The first area is self-talk.

We all have patterns that made us successful, and we trust them, but they have limits. For instance, if you’re someone who gets things done, it can lead to you doing all the work while others wait, which isn’t sustainable. We need to recognize that these patterns are choices. By making them distinct, you open up space for new options.

In go-to-market, the ability to recognize if something’s not working or isn’t optimal is essential. That applies to both the leader and the business. [Carl] So, recognizing internal patterns and how they impact the business as a whole - is that right? [Joelle] Exactly.

[Carl] I’ve read that you’re skilled at identifying urgency triggers. Can you explain that concept? [Joelle] Absolutely. First, define your ideal customer profile (ICP) and buyer persona.

If you're not clear on these, you need to figure them out. But even with an ideal group, not everyone will buy. I used to believe that sales and marketing could create urgency, but the truth is, urgency exists within the buyer - perhaps they have a new boss, they’re the new boss, or they’re losing customers. That’s what creates urgency, not your product.

You need to ask recent buyers, “Why did you buy now?” It’s crucial to understand that urgency already exists; it’s your job to recognize it. [Carl] That makes sense. People often look for solutions only when there’s an immediate need.

How do you go about identifying and leveraging urgency triggers? [Joelle] The first step is as simple as onboarding. During customer onboarding, have someone - not the salesperson - ask, “What made this a top priority now?” Capture this data and look for patterns.

With enough data, you can identify urgency signals to focus your outreach on leads likely to convert. If you’re a high-volume, low-cost business, consider a survey as part of your follow-up with new customers to capture similar insights. [Carl] I’m actually doing some of this myself right now, building an ICP and targeting lists. This is fascinating.

[Joelle] If there’s no urgency trigger, then it’s either the wrong market or the wrong solution. You can experiment with different markets to see which has urgency. [Carl] It’s really about efficiency - making sure each dollar spent has a measurable impact, which is critical in this economy. [Joelle] Exactly.

And if you’re in hyper-growth, focus on unit economics because you don’t want to grow yourself into bankruptcy. Generative AI is pushing costs up, so many SaaS companies are now watching those expenses more closely. [Carl] What techniques do you use to help leaders identify problems like these in their own companies? [Joelle] First, settle any anxieties or imposter syndrome so you can objectively look at data.

Then, establish a culture of experimentation and alignment. I tell CEOs that accountability isn’t about blame; it’s about exploring what went wrong and trying different approaches. It’s vital to ensure everyone is aligned on goals and priorities. [Carl] It makes sense - creating an environment that supports experimentation and removes blame encourages people to bring issues forward.

[Joelle] Exactly. But even with experimentation, alignment on priorities and measurements is essential, so you’re working towards the same goal. [Carl] We’re about out of time. Is there anything else you want to add?

[Joelle] I think we’ve covered a lot: urgency triggers, creating accountable teams, and leading through challenges. Solving hard problems can be rewarding, and there’s always something new to tackle. [Carl] Agreed. You also have a program, the Curveball Crushers, coming up, right?

Can you give us a quick rundown? [Joelle] It’s a six-month program for leaders to develop their curveball approach and apply it to their challenges. It includes coaching, assessments, metrics, and weekly classes where participants can support each other. [Carl] And where can people sign up?

[Joelle] They can visit gtmflow.com/curveball-crushers or find it in the show notes. [Carl] Great, and I believe you’re also offering a resource for listeners, the “Five Strategies to Drive Growth and Efficiency,” available at gtmflow.com/carlanderson .

Thank you so much for joining us, Joelle. And to everyone else, we’ll see you next week.