SaaS Growth Podcast · 2024-11-25 · 39 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
52 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Tegrita, founded in 2009 as an Eloqua consulting firm and rebranded in recent years, has shifted from a technology-focused to outcome-focused practice specializing in middle-of-funnel optimization. Rolly Keenan, who joined as CRO six and a half years ago, walks through why most organizations skip this stage - it requires patience, real effort, and cross-functional collaboration - and instead rush prospects to sales unprepared. The consultancy helps clients create revenue funnels that align sales, marketing, and customer success teams around shared goals. A case study demonstrates the power of this approach: one client reduced top-of-funnel spend by 15% while doubling revenue by learning more about prospects in the middle and applying those insights upstream and downstream. Keenan discusses using the middle funnel as a testing ground, citing a gaming company that discovered a highly profitable technical audience segment through machine learning-driven email testing. Red flags indicating middle-funnel problems include siloed sales and marketing teams, outdated campaigns running unmanaged, and overly simplistic email blasts. Keenan also promotes his book, CMO to CRO, which makes the case for Chief Revenue Officer roles to break down organizational silos and implement modern revenue operations. This episode is essential for CMOs, VPs of Marketing, and revenue leaders struggling with lead quality or sales-marketing misalignment.
The middle funnel is everything between attracting attention (top of funnel) and closing deals (bottom of funnel) - it's where prospect nurturing and education happen, primarily through email and sales-marketing collaboration. Most organizations ignore it because it requires patience, sustained effort, and doesn't fit short investor-driven timelines; instead they rush prospects directly to sales hoping for conversions.
By understanding why people engage and buy in the middle funnel, companies can refine messaging and segment audiences to be more targeted. One Tegrita client reduced top-of-funnel spend by 15% while doubling revenue because better middle-funnel insights informed more efficient top-of-funnel targeting.
Major red flags include lack of collaboration between sales and marketing teams, outdated campaigns running without oversight, relying on a single person to manage the middle funnel, and using basic email blasts without personalization or strategy.
Tegrita uses the middle funnel as a testing ground - for example, they worked with a gaming company that used machine learning to test five different email messages, found which resonated with a technical audience segment previously unidentified, and that segment became a significant revenue driver.
The book argues for creating a Chief Revenue Officer role to oversee sales, marketing, and customer success functions around a single revenue funnel, breaking down organizational silos and providing step-by-step guidance for implementing a modern revenue organization.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode covers the middle-of-funnel concept with some useful framing (using MOF as a testing ground, aligning teams), but lacks substantive depth. Key ideas like revenue funnel alignment and segment discovery are introduced but not deeply explored. Several softball questions yield surface-level answers with minimal detail on implementation or mechanics.
One technique is using the middle of the funnel as a testing ground. For example, we worked with a gaming company that used machine learning to test five different email messages.
If there's no collaboration between your sales and marketing teams, that's a huge red flag.
The middle-of-funnel positioning is somewhat fresh for SaaS discourse, but the core recommendations - align sales and marketing, segment audiences, test messaging, understand customer needs - are well-worn frameworks. No contrarian arguments or first-principles thinking. The MOF framing itself is the main original element, but it's undermined by generic implementation advice.
Middle of the funnel is everything between getting people's attention at the top and closing deals at the bottom. It's about nurturing and educating prospects - converting their interest into actionable leads.
Start by understanding your current customers. Sit in the middle of the funnel and ask: 'Why are people engaging with us? Why are they buying?'
Rolly is a CRO with 6+ years at a consultancy and has authored a book on revenue strategy, suggesting relevant operational experience. However, the transcript provides minimal evidence of hands-on SaaS scaling success or high-growth experience. He's positioned as a consultant/operator, not a founder who built a $100M+ business, which limits caliber for a B2B growth audience.
I joined six and a half years ago as CRO, with the goal of expanding the company.
The book is about creating a modern revenue organization.
Two concrete examples are provided (gaming company with ML email testing, client reducing top-of-funnel spend 15% while doubling revenue), but lack depth. No specific metrics, timelines, deal sizes, or revenue figures beyond percentages. The email-testing example is superficial - no detail on what made the technical segment compelling or how results scaled. Mostly abstract claims dressed up with light anecdotes.
For example, we had a client who reduced top-of-funnel spend by 15% but doubled their revenue because they optimized the middle.
For example, we worked with a gaming company that used machine learning to test five different email messages. Two didn't work and were cut immediately. The other three were sent to larger segments.
Carl asks reasonable opening questions and shows understanding (e.g., 'I hadn't considered using middle-of-funnel insights to inform the top of the funnel'), but rarely probes deeper. No follow-ups on specifics like ROI timelines, implementation costs, team size requirements, or how to operationalize segment discovery. Soft questions like 'Are there any red flags?' yield predictable answers without pushback or challenge.
That's a great example of how experimentation can uncover hidden opportunities. What would you recommend to someone who wants to start experimenting with their funnel but doesn't know where to begin?
That makes sense - identify your customers' needs and tailor your messaging accordingly. Are there any red flags that indicate someone has a poor middle of funnel?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Show notes at In this episode of the SaaS Growth Podcast, host Carl interviews Rolly Keenan, Chief Revenue Officer at Tegrita, a consultancy focusing on the often-overlooked middle of the funnel. They discuss how Tegrita evolved from an Eloqua consulting firm to a middle of the funnel marketing consultancy. Rolly defines the middle of the funnel and explains its importance in aligning various functions like sales, marketing, and customer support to optimize revenue. The conversation delves into practical techniques for effective customer nurturing, the benefits of aligning middle funnel strategies, and the substantial impact on revenue outcomes. They also touch on the book, 'CMO to CRO,' which highlights the need for comprehensive revenue strategies instead of siloed marketing and sales efforts. The episode concludes with practical advice for businesses looking to improve their middle funnel operations.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
[Carl] Hello and welcome to the SaaS Growth Podcast. This week we’re here with Rolly Keenan, the Chief Revenue Officer at Tegrita, a middle-of-funnel consultancy. Tegrita seems to specialize in optimizing the middle of the funnel, which isn’t something you often hear about in the SaaS world. How are you today, Rolly?
[Rolly] Great. How are you? [Carl] I’m great. Winter is coming full force in Finland, which is scary, but we’ll get through it.
[Rolly] I’m in Colorado, which has some winter, but not like Finland. [Carl] Yeah, at least you can stay indoors and relax. Let’s jump right in. Can you explain how Tegrita started and why it exists?
[Rolly] Sure. We started back in 2009, initially as a white-label service provider. In 2011, we incorporated as Tegrita. Our founder, who’s still with us as CTO and president, started the company as an Eloqua consulting firm focused on that marketing automation platform.
I joined six and a half years ago as CRO, with the goal of expanding the company. Pretty quickly, we shifted from being tech-focused to outcome-focused. That’s when we realized we were actually middle-of-the-funnel consultants all along. Recently, we’ve refined our branding to reflect that.
[Carl] So what exactly does "middle of the funnel" mean, and what does Tegrita do in that space? [Rolly] Middle of the funnel is everything between getting people’s attention at the top and closing deals at the bottom. It’s about nurturing and educating prospects - converting their interest into actionable leads. The main channel for this is email, but it’s also about sales and marketing alignment, tech integrations, and data management.
A lot of organizations avoid this stage because it’s hard, requires patience, and often doesn’t fit into the short timelines that investor-led organizations work under. Instead of educating prospects, they just throw them directly to sales and hope for conversions. That’s where we come in. [Carl] It sounds like you focus on turning interested prospects into actual leads, which is often overlooked.
So, what impact do you have when you work with a client? [Rolly] One of the first things we do is create a revenue funnel to align the entire organization around it. This aligns sales, marketing, customer success - any client-facing team - so everyone is focused on the same goals. Over time, clients see real results.
For example, we had a client who reduced top-of-funnel spend by 15% but doubled their revenue because they optimized the middle. They learned more about their customers in the middle, which improved both the top and bottom of their funnel. That’s what happens when you pay attention to the middle. [Carl] That makes a lot of sense.
I’ve seen how small improvements in one part of the funnel can have massive downstream effects. I hadn’t considered using middle-of-funnel insights to inform the top of the funnel, though. That’s fascinating. Do you have any other techniques that work well?
[Rolly] Sure. One technique is using the middle of the funnel as a testing ground. For example, we worked with a gaming company that used machine learning to test five different email messages. Two didn’t work and were cut immediately.
The other three were sent to larger segments. One of those emails resonated with a very technical audience, which we hadn’t considered before. This small test uncovered a new, highly profitable segment for the company. That segment now represents a significant portion of their revenue.
[Carl] That’s a great example of how experimentation can uncover hidden opportunities. What would you recommend to someone who wants to start experimenting with their funnel but doesn’t know where to begin? [Rolly] Start by understanding your current customers. Sit in the middle of the funnel and ask: “Why are people engaging with us?
Why are they buying?” Use that data to refine your strategy for both the top and bottom of the funnel. Segment your audience based on what you learn. Not everyone in your funnel has the same needs, so create personalized paths for them.
Finally, test different approaches and see what resonates. [Carl] That makes sense - identify your customers’ needs and tailor your messaging accordingly. Are there any red flags that indicate someone has a poor middle of funnel? [Rolly] Yes, definitely.
If there’s no collaboration between your sales and marketing teams, that’s a huge red flag. Another is if you have outdated campaigns running that no one knows about. Lastly, if you think one person can manage your middle of funnel or you’re relying on basic email blasts, you probably have a problem. Middle of funnel requires real strategy, effort, and collaboration.
[Carl] That’s great advice. Before we wrap up, can you tell us a bit about your book CMO to CRO ? [Rolly] Sure. The book is about creating a modern revenue organization.
It covers how to align marketing, sales, and customer success around a single revenue funnel. We argue for the need for a Chief Revenue Officer - someone who oversees all client-facing activities - to break down silos and improve efficiency. The book also includes step-by-step guidance for implementing these changes. [Carl] That sounds like a must-read for anyone in revenue leadership.
Where can people find you and learn more about Tegrita? [Rolly] You can find me on LinkedIn - just search for Rolly Keenan. You can also visit our website, tegrita.com , or check out our podcast, Revenue Rehab , at revenuerehab.
com . [Carl] Thank you so much for coming on, Rolly. This was an excellent conversation. [Rolly] Thank you, Carl.
I enjoyed it! [Carl] And for everyone else, we’ll see you next week.
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