150 - Building Customer Success Skills That AI Can’t Replace

1 00:00:00,239 - > 00:00:02,959 SPEAKER_01: You can be in a situation that feels bad, but 2 00:00:02,959 - > 00:00:05,679 you have to look around yourself and figure out how do you make 3 00:00:05,679 - > 00:00:06,480 the most of it. 4 00:00:06,719 - > 00:00:08,160 There's always something you can do. 5 00:00:08,240 - > 00:00:10,640 There's always something in your control, and there's always a 6 00:00:10,640 - > 00:00:11,919 way you can grow. 7 00:00:12,320 - > 00:00:16,800 AI can do a lot of things and it's evolving rapidly, but you 8 00:00:16,800 - > 00:00:19,519 still need people who can be very human, people who know how 9 00:00:19,519 - > 00:00:25,039 to read a room, people who can take like all of this change and 10 00:00:25,039 - > 00:00:28,480 information that's happening around them and kind of know how 11 00:00:28,480 - > 00:00:31,440 to link that together and give that to a customer. 12 00:00:31,679 - > 00:00:34,000 It's not a one-size-fits-all. 13 00:00:34,159 - > 00:00:38,640 So much of leadership is EQ and there's IQ too. 14 00:00:38,799 - > 00:00:43,119 But your ability to like meet your team where they are and 15 00:00:43,119 - > 00:00:46,799 your ability to meet individuals where they are, I would say 16 00:00:46,799 - > 00:00:50,719 that's the most important trait of being a leader. 17 00:00:51,039 - > 00:00:54,799 SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone! Welcome to the new episode of Women in 18 00:00:54,799 - > 00:00:56,799 Customer Success Podcast. 19 00:00:57,200 - > 00:01:03,359 It's a wonderful Friday morning, actually, in the UK, where I am 20 00:01:03,359 - > 00:01:06,640 hosting my wonderful guest today, and I really can't wait 21 00:01:06,640 - > 00:01:08,480 to introduce her to you. 22 00:01:08,879 - > 00:01:12,879 She is Tamara Kemp, Customer Success Leader at Cisco. 23 00:01:13,280 - > 00:01:17,120 Tamara, it's so nice to see you again and catch up. 24 00:01:17,200 - > 00:01:21,200 And welcome finally to the Women in Customer Success podcast. 25 00:01:21,599 - > 00:01:23,200 SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Maria. 26 00:01:23,359 - > 00:01:27,040 It's amazing to connect with you and to be a guest on your 27 00:01:27,040 - > 00:01:27,439 podcast. 28 00:01:27,599 - > 00:01:28,000 I love it. 29 00:01:28,159 - > 00:01:29,200 I've been listening to it. 30 00:01:29,280 - > 00:01:33,760 And also, I know we go back, and it's amazing because I remember 31 00:01:33,760 - > 00:01:35,439 meeting you when you were starting all of this. 32 00:01:35,519 - > 00:01:36,560 So thank you so much. 33 00:01:36,719 - > 00:01:39,599 It means a lot to me to be a guest here. 34 00:01:40,000 - > 00:01:42,319 SPEAKER_00: It means a lot to me as well because Tamara and I 35 00:01:42,319 - > 00:01:45,359 used to cross paths in the same company where we worked for a 36 00:01:45,359 - > 00:01:46,000 little while. 37 00:01:46,319 - > 00:01:51,200 So we share history and we share love for joyful type of life, 38 00:01:51,280 - > 00:01:55,920 and life in which we enjoy being in tech, being mothers, being so 39 00:01:55,920 - > 00:01:59,040 many different things at the same time, also being leaders, 40 00:01:59,359 - > 00:02:01,359 having people to coach, to manage. 41 00:02:01,519 - > 00:02:03,680 And as you can see, that's probably some of the things that 42 00:02:03,680 - > 00:02:05,120 we will be talking about today. 43 00:02:05,280 - > 00:02:08,800 But Tamara, I'm sure that people are dying to get to know you a 44 00:02:08,800 - > 00:02:09,280 bit better. 45 00:02:09,599 - > 00:02:12,080 Tell us, uh, where are you calling from? 46 00:02:12,240 - > 00:02:13,360 Where are you based? 47 00:02:13,759 - > 00:02:15,199 SPEAKER_01: I'm based in London. 48 00:02:15,439 - > 00:02:17,199 So we live quite central. 49 00:02:17,360 - > 00:02:21,280 I'm not far from places like London Bridge and Borough. 50 00:02:21,759 - > 00:02:26,000 And yeah, I'm originally from New Mexico in the US. 51 00:02:26,319 - > 00:02:29,039 And I moved to London back in 2011. 52 00:02:29,120 - > 00:02:32,240 So I've been here for some time and still love it. 53 00:02:32,639 - > 00:02:34,639 Yeah, that's where I'm calling from. 54 00:02:35,120 - > 00:02:36,800 SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's also 2011. 55 00:02:36,879 - > 00:02:38,080 I came in 2010. 56 00:02:38,240 - > 00:02:40,800 It was supposed to be just one year and go back home. 57 00:02:40,960 - > 00:02:44,879 Uh, but then as you know, life happens, and yeah, 15 or so 58 00:02:44,879 - > 00:02:47,360 years after, you're still here enjoying it. 59 00:02:47,599 - > 00:02:48,240 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 60 00:02:48,800 - > 00:02:51,599 SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, it's awesome to change places and 61 00:02:51,599 - > 00:02:54,080 just be able to be a global citizen and live everywhere. 62 00:02:54,319 - > 00:02:56,560 Which brings me to an interesting question that I love 63 00:02:56,560 - > 00:02:57,599 asking my guest. 64 00:02:58,400 - > 00:03:02,879 Going back to your teenage years, out of a sudden, would 65 00:03:02,879 - > 00:03:06,960 the 16-year-old Tamara be surprised to find you in this 66 00:03:06,960 - > 00:03:08,319 current role? 67 00:03:09,360 - > 00:03:10,639 SPEAKER_01: I think so, actually. 68 00:03:10,800 - > 00:03:11,199 Yeah. 69 00:03:11,439 - > 00:03:15,280 I think 16-year-old Tamara thought she was probably going 70 00:03:15,280 - > 00:03:19,919 to be a doctor because I loved biology and the science so much. 71 00:03:20,240 - > 00:03:26,080 And I was always labeled uh by teachers as like a reserved 72 00:03:26,080 - > 00:03:26,400 person. 73 00:03:26,719 - > 00:03:30,400 So I kind of took that on and just thought, oh, I'll probably 74 00:03:30,400 - > 00:03:32,879 end up as like a researcher or doctor. 75 00:03:33,120 - > 00:03:36,080 But I'm obviously doing something very different from 76 00:03:36,080 - > 00:03:36,400 that. 77 00:03:36,879 - > 00:03:39,680 SPEAKER_00: Tell us a bit more about your actual career 78 00:03:39,680 - > 00:03:40,000 journey. 79 00:03:40,159 - > 00:03:41,039 Like, what would you say? 80 00:03:41,120 - > 00:03:45,759 Where did you start your career journey brought you to customer 81 00:03:45,759 - > 00:03:46,400 success? 82 00:03:47,360 - > 00:03:48,879 SPEAKER_01: I've been working for a long time. 83 00:03:49,039 - > 00:03:52,319 Like I officially probably got on a payroll when I was about 10 84 00:03:52,319 - > 00:03:52,800 years old. 85 00:03:52,960 - > 00:03:56,639 I was volunteering in a camp that I used to attend as a kid. 86 00:03:57,039 - > 00:04:00,639 So I was a camp counselor in the summers and I loved helping out. 87 00:04:00,800 - > 00:04:02,719 I was always very proactive. 88 00:04:02,879 - > 00:04:05,439 People would always say, Oh, like, wow, you get you 89 00:04:05,439 - > 00:04:08,479 anticipate and you you start like making the snack and just 90 00:04:08,479 - > 00:04:11,599 getting things done before people ask, and you just know 91 00:04:11,599 - > 00:04:12,719 when it needs to be done. 92 00:04:12,879 - > 00:04:15,759 And it was a great way to like meet other people who were 93 00:04:15,759 - > 00:04:18,240 volunteering, who were young, and it was fun and we got to 94 00:04:18,240 - > 00:04:19,920 play with kids outside. 95 00:04:20,160 - > 00:04:24,160 And then I also did an internship that started in high 96 00:04:24,160 - > 00:04:27,279 school where I interned in a genetics laboratory, which was 97 00:04:27,279 - > 00:04:30,319 like very much like a nerdy science-y thing, but it was a 98 00:04:30,319 - > 00:04:32,240 great way to earn money for college. 99 00:04:32,399 - > 00:04:35,360 And throughout college, I would come back in the summer back 100 00:04:35,360 - > 00:04:37,600 home and continue to work there. 101 00:04:37,839 - > 00:04:40,959 I had uh what we call in America work study jobs. 102 00:04:41,040 - > 00:04:44,319 So while I was back in college after the breaks, I would be 103 00:04:44,319 - > 00:04:48,639 doing a work study where I worked for the PR arm for 104 00:04:48,639 - > 00:04:51,360 Columbia Business School, uh, because I was going to college 105 00:04:51,360 - > 00:04:52,000 in New York. 106 00:04:52,160 - > 00:04:53,839 And I would also babysit. 107 00:04:54,160 - > 00:04:59,120 And then I got my first real full career when I graduated 108 00:04:59,120 - > 00:05:03,439 from college, and it was to work for a company called Bloomberg. 109 00:05:03,519 - > 00:05:05,040 Uh, and I was hired into sales. 110 00:05:05,279 - > 00:05:06,319 SPEAKER_00: You kind of know what it is. 111 00:05:06,399 - > 00:05:09,279 Like, that's an awesome company to work for after college. 112 00:05:09,839 - > 00:05:12,720 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it like lots of really great training and 113 00:05:12,720 - > 00:05:18,000 such a great culture, such great people, and a lot of rigor in 114 00:05:18,000 - > 00:05:21,360 terms of customer experience, especially at the time when I 115 00:05:21,360 - > 00:05:21,839 joined. 116 00:05:22,000 - > 00:05:25,519 And it was really great, but it was surprising because again, 117 00:05:25,680 - > 00:05:28,560 like I went into college thinking, oh, I'll I started 118 00:05:28,560 - > 00:05:31,920 pre-med, thinking I'm gonna be a doctor, I'm gonna go do 119 00:05:31,920 - > 00:05:34,079 something with science, with medicine. 120 00:05:34,480 - > 00:05:39,279 But once I took college-level chemistry, I was just like, this 121 00:05:39,279 - > 00:05:40,079 isn't for me. 122 00:05:40,399 - > 00:05:43,120 Ended up going into the political science track because 123 00:05:43,120 - > 00:05:46,319 I took some courses in that field, and I really loved the 124 00:05:46,319 - > 00:05:46,959 professors. 125 00:05:47,199 - > 00:05:51,360 And for me, coming from, you know, I came from New Mexico, 126 00:05:51,519 - > 00:05:52,720 I'm American. 127 00:05:52,959 - > 00:05:57,120 What I liked about being in this particular college and studying 128 00:05:57,120 - > 00:06:00,480 political science was I I broadened my understanding of 129 00:06:00,480 - > 00:06:01,120 the world. 130 00:06:01,360 - > 00:06:05,439 And I met lots of other students in these classes who came from 131 00:06:05,439 - > 00:06:08,560 all over the world, professors who were from different 132 00:06:08,560 - > 00:06:09,519 countries. 133 00:06:10,000 - > 00:06:14,160 And I realized my strength is more in writing and reading and 134 00:06:14,160 - > 00:06:15,519 probably speaking. 135 00:06:15,759 - > 00:06:18,879 So yeah, then I just didn't know what to do with myself when it 136 00:06:18,879 - > 00:06:21,680 came time to graduate, and it was like maybe law of school, 137 00:06:21,759 - > 00:06:24,319 but I didn't really feel particularly drawn to that. 138 00:06:24,639 - > 00:06:27,279 And anyway, I had a friend who was already at Bloomberg, and 139 00:06:27,279 - > 00:06:29,839 she was like, look, it's a really, it's a really intense 140 00:06:29,839 - > 00:06:32,639 company, but it's a lot of fun, and you'll just learn a lot. 141 00:06:32,720 - > 00:06:35,439 So it's like you feel like you're still continuing in 142 00:06:35,439 - > 00:06:35,759 school. 143 00:06:35,920 - > 00:06:39,120 So I managed to get into Bloomberg, and it very much was 144 00:06:39,120 - > 00:06:39,360 that. 145 00:06:39,519 - > 00:06:43,759 And my key thing, I would say, I spent a lot of time uh building 146 00:06:43,759 - > 00:06:45,519 my career within Bloomberg. 147 00:06:45,839 - > 00:06:50,399 I learned so much from it, but really great things was just 148 00:06:50,639 - > 00:06:53,759 around how to engage with people and how to be in front of people 149 00:06:53,839 - > 00:06:57,680 and how to be proactively in front of people and advocating 150 00:06:57,680 - > 00:07:00,959 for your customer and how to collaborate with people that you 151 00:07:00,959 - > 00:07:03,600 only can influence because you don't lead them. 152 00:07:03,839 - > 00:07:06,079 So, yeah, learned a lot of great lessons. 153 00:07:06,319 - > 00:07:10,160 I started in San Francisco and then I relocated to London, 154 00:07:10,480 - > 00:07:14,959 covered the major European banks as their account manager, and 155 00:07:14,959 - > 00:07:17,439 then got into app dynamics. 156 00:07:17,680 - > 00:07:19,279 Also did a part-time master's degree. 157 00:07:19,600 - > 00:07:21,279 SPEAKER_00: Just just a master's degree. 158 00:07:21,439 - > 00:07:23,759 By the way, would you like to tell us what was the master's 159 00:07:23,759 - > 00:07:24,000 degree? 160 00:07:24,160 - > 00:07:27,199 Because I do think that you're a very analytical person, also 161 00:07:27,439 - > 00:07:31,600 from the educational background that I think that masters helped 162 00:07:31,600 - > 00:07:31,920 as well. 163 00:07:32,079 - > 00:07:33,199 What was it about? 164 00:07:33,759 - > 00:07:36,800 SPEAKER_01: I did a part-time master's degree in business 165 00:07:36,800 - > 00:07:37,519 analytics. 166 00:07:37,680 - > 00:07:41,439 And at the time, this was I think kind of like a newer 167 00:07:41,600 - > 00:07:42,000 offering. 168 00:07:42,079 - > 00:07:43,680 It was back in 2019. 169 00:07:43,839 - > 00:07:46,079 And I did that because I had moved into a new role in 170 00:07:46,079 - > 00:07:48,399 Bloomberg, which was selling data. 171 00:07:48,560 - > 00:07:51,600 And I was having to talk to Quantz and Stratz. 172 00:07:51,680 - > 00:07:55,279 So these are people in the banks that are data scientists who 173 00:07:55,279 - > 00:07:57,439 build algorithms for trading platforms. 174 00:07:57,680 - > 00:08:01,199 And I thought, look, to make myself more credible and to just 175 00:08:01,199 - > 00:08:04,160 grow, this seems like a good degree for me to take. 176 00:08:04,240 - > 00:08:08,079 And then I can learn more about like the value of data and why 177 00:08:08,079 - > 00:08:11,120 it's important to have clean data and how you actually have 178 00:08:11,120 - > 00:08:14,480 to prepare it to be ingested and to make meaning of it and do 179 00:08:14,480 - > 00:08:16,639 analysis and discovery. 180 00:08:16,800 - > 00:08:18,879 And then then you build on that. 181 00:08:18,959 - > 00:08:21,439 And so then it was about the analytics, which is machine 182 00:08:21,439 - > 00:08:26,079 learning and AI, and all of that being applied to business. 183 00:08:26,319 - > 00:08:29,519 So I brought into my network by doing that program. 184 00:08:29,759 - > 00:08:33,759 I got to go to Shanghai, I got to go to New York. 185 00:08:33,919 - > 00:08:35,759 Uh, we had a session here in London. 186 00:08:36,000 - > 00:08:39,120 So I know you're doing an exec MBA right now, too. 187 00:08:39,200 - > 00:08:43,120 And it's these kind of modular programs are really great for 188 00:08:43,919 - > 00:08:46,799 doing just that and meeting people from other industries. 189 00:08:47,039 - > 00:08:50,159 But in doing that, I was surprised because I thought 190 00:08:50,320 - > 00:08:55,679 maybe I'll I'll try to go into like an analytics role, but a 191 00:08:55,679 - > 00:08:59,039 recruiter found me uh as a result of doing that program, 192 00:08:59,120 - > 00:09:02,159 and that recruiter was helping to recruit for App Dynamics. 193 00:09:03,039 - > 00:09:05,919 Yeah, it's all ended up where I wasn't expecting. 194 00:09:06,720 - > 00:09:08,240 SPEAKER_00: And then the history was made. 195 00:09:08,399 - > 00:09:12,000 I want to now like tap into App Dynamics a bit more, but just 196 00:09:12,000 - > 00:09:14,000 before that, studying. 197 00:09:14,080 - > 00:09:16,159 I mean, obviously, yes, amazing topic. 198 00:09:16,240 - > 00:09:16,879 We love it. 199 00:09:17,519 - > 00:09:19,759 It's so much personal growth and development. 200 00:09:20,080 - > 00:09:22,399 When you were in those situations of thinking, oh, 201 00:09:22,559 - > 00:09:25,600 shall I get for like shall I get another degree or so? 202 00:09:25,679 - > 00:09:28,399 Because obviously you were already very well educated by 203 00:09:28,399 - > 00:09:28,879 that point. 204 00:09:29,200 - > 00:09:31,919 Did the whole idea come from you because you wanted to develop 205 00:09:31,919 - > 00:09:34,080 yourself, or did it come from the company? 206 00:09:34,320 - > 00:09:37,759 I'm asking because you know, sometimes it feels like people 207 00:09:37,759 - > 00:09:41,759 think that development later on in career comes from company and 208 00:09:41,759 - > 00:09:43,840 from what they should be doing. 209 00:09:44,080 - > 00:09:44,720 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 210 00:09:45,279 - > 00:09:47,840 SPEAKER_00: So I want to hear your stance on it. 211 00:09:48,240 - > 00:09:51,120 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a thoughtful question because I 212 00:09:51,279 - > 00:09:53,039 myself often forget as well. 213 00:09:53,120 - > 00:09:57,519 But the reason I did it at that point in time was because as I 214 00:09:57,519 - > 00:10:01,519 was uh applying for this other role within Bloomberg, I was 215 00:10:01,519 - > 00:10:05,840 originally applying for a particular more senior position. 216 00:10:06,159 - > 00:10:08,720 And there were things that happened that were outside of my 217 00:10:08,720 - > 00:10:10,639 control, and that position was no longer available. 218 00:10:10,799 - > 00:10:14,399 So they had to offer me a more junior position. 219 00:10:14,639 - > 00:10:19,360 And I was, I wasn't happy, but I I knew where I wanted to go with 220 00:10:19,360 - > 00:10:19,519 it. 221 00:10:19,600 - > 00:10:20,960 I knew it was the right place to be. 222 00:10:21,039 - > 00:10:24,159 So I took it and I thought to myself, because I have more 223 00:10:24,159 - > 00:10:26,399 bandwidth, I should do a master's degree. 224 00:10:26,559 - > 00:10:30,320 I knew I always wanted to get a higher degree, and this one, it 225 00:10:30,320 - > 00:10:34,159 just made the most sense because it was all around making use out 226 00:10:34,159 - > 00:10:37,440 of data to improve your business, your operations, or 227 00:10:37,440 - > 00:10:38,799 how you make decisions. 228 00:10:39,120 - > 00:10:44,639 And so, yeah, the decision to pursue a master's degree in this 229 00:10:44,639 - > 00:10:49,519 technical topic came from me actually originally feeling like 230 00:10:49,840 - > 00:10:53,840 very frustrated with the situation I was in, but trying 231 00:10:53,840 - > 00:10:56,960 to say, how do I make the most of it? 232 00:10:57,279 - > 00:11:01,840 Like I could be, you know, annoyed, or I can use this time 233 00:11:01,840 - > 00:11:06,080 to develop other skill sets because I've got time, I don't 234 00:11:06,080 - > 00:11:09,679 have as much pressure now that I've been given this other role. 235 00:11:10,000 - > 00:11:13,360 And with with Bloomberg, I worked out as well an agreement 236 00:11:13,360 - > 00:11:16,080 that I would still move into that more senior role. 237 00:11:16,240 - > 00:11:19,759 Nice and, you know, make sure that there's a you know, there's 238 00:11:19,759 - > 00:11:23,759 a a finite timeline for that, which did work out in the end. 239 00:11:24,000 - > 00:11:27,440 I think one of my big things, it's always you can be in a 240 00:11:27,440 - > 00:11:30,639 situation that feels bad, but you have to look around yourself 241 00:11:30,639 - > 00:11:32,960 and figure out how do you make the most of it. 242 00:11:33,279 - > 00:11:36,080 It's there's always something you can do, there's always 243 00:11:36,080 - > 00:11:38,639 something in your control, and there's always a way you can 244 00:11:38,639 - > 00:11:39,039 grow. 245 00:11:39,279 - > 00:11:41,360 And uh yeah, that was that moment. 246 00:11:42,080 - > 00:11:44,960 SPEAKER_00: This is absolutely fantastic and wonderful because 247 00:11:44,960 - > 00:11:48,879 you are first, you were saying it was kind of the moment that 248 00:11:48,879 - > 00:11:52,159 maybe you wouldn't have chosen 100% if it was all in your 249 00:11:52,159 - > 00:11:52,480 control. 250 00:11:52,639 - > 00:11:55,279 And then you felt, oh, kind of have extra time. 251 00:11:55,440 - > 00:11:58,080 But Tamara, people, when they have extra time, they you know 252 00:11:58,159 - > 00:12:01,120 go home, watch Netflix, they scroll on social media. 253 00:12:01,200 - > 00:12:04,240 But you decided, yeah, I'm just gonna do a master's in business 254 00:12:04,240 - > 00:12:04,639 analytics. 255 00:12:05,279 - > 00:12:06,159 It's really inspiring. 256 00:12:06,480 - > 00:12:08,480 I'm a big proponent of of education. 257 00:12:08,559 - > 00:12:11,200 I think there is such a huge value still in those kind of 258 00:12:11,759 - > 00:12:16,000 traditional ways of learning still on traditional paths and 259 00:12:16,000 - > 00:12:18,399 universities, although, of course, we have you know two 260 00:12:18,480 - > 00:12:21,600 minutes videos on everything, but there is something special 261 00:12:21,600 - > 00:12:23,039 about still doing the course. 262 00:12:23,519 - > 00:12:28,080 Uh, and it's really commendable that you use that to again build 263 00:12:28,080 - > 00:12:33,360 the next step, negotiate with a company and massively, massively 264 00:12:33,360 - > 00:12:37,519 develop your your skills and in a new way, uh, which obviously 265 00:12:37,519 - > 00:12:41,200 helped a lot in culturally in up dynamics and where you are at 266 00:12:41,200 - > 00:12:41,600 the moment. 267 00:12:41,919 - > 00:12:46,159 So we are coming to that part of you being an app dynamics, uh, 268 00:12:46,240 - > 00:12:47,759 and that's where we met at some point. 269 00:12:48,000 - > 00:12:50,879 And I believe that's where actually your customer success 270 00:12:50,879 - > 00:12:51,919 journey started, right? 271 00:12:52,000 - > 00:12:55,840 Because at some point then that it the role became available as 272 00:12:55,840 - > 00:12:56,960 a customer success. 273 00:12:57,120 - > 00:13:00,879 So tell us more about your app dynamics and how did that 274 00:13:00,879 - > 00:13:05,039 journey look like from starting app dynamics to where you are 275 00:13:05,039 - > 00:13:05,200 now? 276 00:13:05,279 - > 00:13:07,120 Because there have been changes. 277 00:13:07,519 - > 00:13:09,919 SPEAKER_01: There have been a lot of steps on that journey as 278 00:13:09,919 - > 00:13:10,159 well. 279 00:13:10,399 - > 00:13:14,159 So I joined App Dynamics and it was still an exciting time. 280 00:13:14,320 - > 00:13:18,720 It it was it is an unforgettable experience going through what I 281 00:13:18,720 - > 00:13:20,320 went through at the time that I didn't. 282 00:13:20,480 - > 00:13:25,039 And when I talked to other like App Dynamics alumni who did it 283 00:13:25,039 - > 00:13:29,279 all at the same time, it's very much like a thing that kind of 284 00:13:29,279 - > 00:13:30,080 bonds us. 285 00:13:30,399 - > 00:13:34,559 But I originally was hired as a salesperson because at 286 00:13:34,559 - > 00:13:37,200 Bloomberg, you know, we call ourselves salespeople, but 287 00:13:37,200 - > 00:13:39,440 really we're account managers with targets. 288 00:13:39,679 - > 00:13:44,559 So I went for this sales role and learned a lot through the 289 00:13:44,559 - > 00:13:47,840 interview process, which is I won't get into it now because 290 00:13:47,840 - > 00:13:50,720 it's like probably a whole separate conversation. 291 00:13:51,039 - > 00:13:53,919 But great experience, got in. 292 00:13:54,240 - > 00:13:57,519 Basically, it became very clear I'm not a new business 293 00:13:57,519 - > 00:14:00,399 salesperson, but I learned a lot of great things. 294 00:14:00,559 - > 00:14:02,399 I did so much cold calling. 295 00:14:02,480 - > 00:14:06,720 I would be in at 7 a.m., making a hundred calls a day, learning 296 00:14:06,720 - > 00:14:09,919 all about that, learning how to get meetings with CIOs and CTOs 297 00:14:10,000 - > 00:14:12,879 with no introductions except calls that you make to their 298 00:14:12,879 - > 00:14:14,799 mobile phones, and learning medic. 299 00:14:15,440 - > 00:14:17,440 Uh, so that was really key. 300 00:14:17,679 - > 00:14:21,200 And learning just how to be more effective with people, how to 301 00:14:21,200 - > 00:14:24,720 have meetings where you can demonstrate to the other person 302 00:14:24,720 - > 00:14:27,360 that you value their time, that you've done your homework, you 303 00:14:27,360 - > 00:14:30,080 know what their pain and their problems are and what you can do 304 00:14:30,080 - > 00:14:30,639 to solve it. 305 00:14:30,799 - > 00:14:35,279 So I learned a really great framework from that period of 306 00:14:35,279 - > 00:14:38,000 sales that I did in App Dynamics. 307 00:14:38,240 - > 00:14:42,720 I then moved into a renewals role, knowing that the long-term 308 00:14:42,720 - > 00:14:45,919 final resting place of that role would be customer success, 309 00:14:46,080 - > 00:14:50,000 because at the time, App Dynamics were starting to grow 310 00:14:50,000 - > 00:14:54,080 the customer success team because they knew retention was 311 00:14:54,080 - > 00:14:54,720 very important. 312 00:14:55,120 - > 00:14:58,480 So their plan at the time was we'll finish out this fiscal 313 00:14:58,480 - > 00:15:00,960 year with our renewals team, but then we're going to convert them 314 00:15:00,960 - > 00:15:03,919 all to customer success so we have a larger customer success 315 00:15:03,919 - > 00:15:04,320 team. 316 00:15:04,559 - > 00:15:06,879 So I had an amazing time doing renewals. 317 00:15:07,039 - > 00:15:12,080 I had this amazing leader, and it was just great exposure in a 318 00:15:12,080 - > 00:15:12,480 different way. 319 00:15:12,559 - > 00:15:14,399 It was actually a highly analytical role. 320 00:15:14,480 - > 00:15:18,480 You had to do a lot of analysis of commercials and licensing. 321 00:15:18,639 - > 00:15:21,200 You still had to be the salesperson and be in front of 322 00:15:21,200 - > 00:15:22,000 the customer. 323 00:15:22,240 - > 00:15:26,399 And it lasted a short period, but I learned a lot of useful 324 00:15:26,720 - > 00:15:30,480 operational things from doing that and just had a very like 325 00:15:31,360 - > 00:15:35,279 make complex information simple for your customer before you go 326 00:15:35,279 - > 00:15:36,720 and try to negotiate. 327 00:15:36,960 - > 00:15:40,480 Then I moved into customer success and they were growing 328 00:15:40,480 - > 00:15:43,200 the team and they realized they also needed more leaders. 329 00:15:43,279 - > 00:15:47,840 And so there was an opportunity to apply for a leadership role 330 00:15:47,840 - > 00:15:51,679 in the UK, Ireland, and Northern Europe team. 331 00:15:51,840 - > 00:15:53,200 So I applied. 332 00:15:53,360 - > 00:15:57,519 I completely didn't expect to get it, but I went through the 333 00:15:57,519 - > 00:16:02,320 interviews and I managed to get this leadership role where I 334 00:16:02,320 - > 00:16:06,000 would be leading the Northern European customer success team 335 00:16:06,080 - > 00:16:07,360 while having customers. 336 00:16:07,600 - > 00:16:11,360 So that was how I guess I got my start in leadership, but also in 337 00:16:11,360 - > 00:16:12,000 customer success. 338 00:16:12,159 - > 00:16:14,559 So the two things happened at the same time. 339 00:16:15,120 - > 00:16:18,799 SPEAKER_00: And if I'm correct, during that time, that's also a 340 00:16:18,799 - > 00:16:21,759 special point of point in time for Abdynamics, right? 341 00:16:21,919 - > 00:16:25,360 Because Abdynamics then got acquired by Cisco for 342 00:16:25,519 - > 00:16:29,039 magnificent 3.7 billion, if I remember correctly. 343 00:16:29,200 - > 00:16:35,039 So it was a completely new start of a company or a complete 344 00:16:35,039 - > 00:16:38,320 evolution of a company from highly, highly, highly 345 00:16:38,320 - > 00:16:43,120 successful startup coming into a family of what 40,000 employees 346 00:16:43,120 - > 00:16:44,159 and beyond. 347 00:16:44,720 - > 00:16:45,279 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 348 00:16:45,360 - > 00:16:48,559 So App Dynamics, it it had already been acquired even 349 00:16:48,559 - > 00:16:49,360 before I joined. 350 00:16:49,840 - > 00:16:53,200 But you're right in that it was the period where they were 351 00:16:53,200 - > 00:16:57,679 starting to look at integrating us in finally into the wider 352 00:16:57,679 - > 00:16:58,720 Cisco teams. 353 00:16:58,960 - > 00:17:04,400 So I think we had my first year where I was, you know, a leader 354 00:17:04,400 - > 00:17:05,599 in customer success. 355 00:17:05,759 - > 00:17:08,240 I also had great leaders too. 356 00:17:08,480 - > 00:17:12,319 And we did a lot of building, we figured out how to try to scale 357 00:17:12,319 - > 00:17:16,000 the team, we brought in processes, we did really great 358 00:17:16,000 - > 00:17:18,400 boot camps and training for everyone. 359 00:17:18,799 - > 00:17:23,839 Then about a year later is when the Big Bang happened, where we 360 00:17:23,839 - > 00:17:26,960 got finally folded into Cisco customer success. 361 00:17:27,200 - > 00:17:31,839 So we had a year of having a lot of like this kind of startup 362 00:17:31,839 - > 00:17:36,880 feeling still, where you can just change things really 363 00:17:36,880 - > 00:17:37,359 quickly. 364 00:17:37,519 - > 00:17:41,440 And then there was a big transition period after that. 365 00:17:42,400 - > 00:17:46,160 SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is brought to you by DeployFlow, 366 00:17:46,480 - > 00:17:48,799 your partner for digital transformation. 367 00:17:49,200 - > 00:17:51,759 Do you need to build an MVP fast? 368 00:17:52,880 - > 00:17:57,839 Whether it's a new product, APIs, configuration for your 369 00:17:57,839 - > 00:18:01,279 CRMs, or modernizing your cloud apps. 370 00:18:01,519 - > 00:18:06,000 P-Suite gives you a team, senior squad of full-stack engineers 371 00:18:06,160 - > 00:18:09,359 who plug into your team and hit the ground running. 372 00:18:09,680 - > 00:18:13,759 Designed for founders and CTOs who want to move fast with 373 00:18:13,759 - > 00:18:17,759 AI-powered tools and clear sprint-based outcomes. 374 00:18:18,160 - > 00:18:20,160 No more long-term log-ins. 375 00:18:20,240 - > 00:18:24,240 So if a sprint doesn't deliver, you can just walk away. 376 00:18:24,559 - > 00:18:30,160 For a cost and squad estimate, head over to deployflow.co slash 377 00:18:30,319 - > 00:18:33,680 p suite and take the quick quiz. 378 00:18:34,319 - > 00:18:35,839 Deployflow.co. 379 00:18:36,960 - > 00:18:41,119 I just love hearing this story because I love hearing about 380 00:18:41,440 - > 00:18:46,160 people's career journeys and different companies. 381 00:18:46,240 - > 00:18:48,799 I mean, you've been in some amazing companies at Bloomberg, 382 00:18:48,880 - > 00:18:50,000 of Dynamic Cisco. 383 00:18:50,319 - > 00:18:53,200 You've been through so many different types of roles, 384 00:18:53,359 - > 00:18:55,279 different experiences, different people. 385 00:18:55,359 - > 00:19:00,400 You changed multiple teams, many more leaders, bosses, had really 386 00:19:00,400 - > 00:19:03,279 loads of different kinds of role models, or maybe even lack of 387 00:19:03,359 - > 00:19:04,960 some role models that you wanted. 388 00:19:05,200 - > 00:19:08,319 And here you are now being a customer success leader at 389 00:19:08,319 - > 00:19:08,960 Cisco. 390 00:19:10,720 - > 00:19:14,480 As a leader of a team, I'm so interested in so many aspects of 391 00:19:14,480 - > 00:19:17,440 your leadership, but also something that's very related to 392 00:19:17,440 - > 00:19:20,480 even your previous master's degree, business analytics, 393 00:19:20,640 - > 00:19:23,440 everything that is so relevant today, AI, machine learning, 394 00:19:23,599 - > 00:19:24,480 what do we do with it? 395 00:19:24,880 - > 00:19:28,400 I know by fact that you are actually using a lot of AI with 396 00:19:28,400 - > 00:19:30,480 your teams and that you're experimenting a lot. 397 00:19:30,640 - > 00:19:34,960 And I really wanted us to tap more deeper into the actual use 398 00:19:34,960 - > 00:19:38,640 cases and how you work with AI with your team. 399 00:19:39,119 - > 00:19:44,799 So maybe we start with your overview because if we are on a 400 00:19:44,799 - > 00:19:48,480 scale from zero to ten, like zero being, oh, we're just kind 401 00:19:48,480 - > 00:19:53,680 of trying to see what is Chat GPT to 10 if all our workflows 402 00:19:53,680 - > 00:19:57,119 are already AI automated and AI powered. 403 00:19:57,200 - > 00:20:01,759 Like where would you place your team in terms of AI usage and 404 00:20:01,759 - > 00:20:02,400 adoption? 405 00:20:02,960 - > 00:20:05,680 SPEAKER_01: I think I would put us at a four or a five. 406 00:20:05,759 - > 00:20:08,640 And the reason is that they're I I would say they're very 407 00:20:08,640 - > 00:20:12,480 proficient and aware of you know tools like Chat GPT, but we're 408 00:20:12,480 - > 00:20:16,480 definitely not we don't have AI embedded in our processes and 409 00:20:16,799 - > 00:20:21,599 driving, you know, let's say certain tasks and activities 410 00:20:21,599 - > 00:20:25,440 that that we could be doing, but it's very much part of people's 411 00:20:25,440 - > 00:20:26,079 day-to-day. 412 00:20:26,880 - > 00:20:30,480 And it's very narrow, very narrow use cases and 413 00:20:30,480 - > 00:20:31,839 task-specific things. 414 00:20:32,240 - > 00:20:33,839 SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about those use cases. 415 00:20:33,920 - > 00:20:37,359 Uh uh, what are the very particular use cases that you 416 00:20:37,359 - > 00:20:40,160 have decided to do with your team or maybe even start 417 00:20:40,160 - > 00:20:41,200 experimenting with? 418 00:20:41,359 - > 00:20:42,720 Yeah, I'm all ears. 419 00:20:43,599 - > 00:20:48,960 SPEAKER_01: So it's I I guess to provide context, what Cisco's 420 00:20:48,960 - > 00:20:53,119 approach has been is very kind of ground up approach. 421 00:20:53,359 - > 00:20:56,640 So we had uh some training, and that was all mandatory. 422 00:20:56,720 - > 00:21:00,160 And what I liked about it, what I took away from it is there's 423 00:21:00,160 - > 00:21:03,440 this kind of framework, which is we want to get everyone to a 424 00:21:03,440 - > 00:21:06,640 point where they're highly mature with using AI and highly 425 00:21:06,640 - > 00:21:10,079 knowledgeable, and they're aware of the risks and the tools and 426 00:21:10,079 - > 00:21:11,200 the policies. 427 00:21:11,440 - > 00:21:14,960 So there's a kind of maturity journey, and then after that, 428 00:21:15,039 - > 00:21:18,880 it's kind of like everyone, you know, find ways to use it. 429 00:21:19,119 - > 00:21:22,480 And what's been really great to see in my team is there are 430 00:21:22,480 - > 00:21:27,200 people who they are covering entire regions of Europe by 431 00:21:27,200 - > 00:21:31,039 themselves single-handedly, and they might have 30 plus 432 00:21:31,039 - > 00:21:31,680 customers. 433 00:21:31,839 - > 00:21:34,559 I shouldn't even say might, because they they do actually 434 00:21:34,880 - > 00:21:41,599 have 30 plus customers, and so out of their own personal like 435 00:21:41,920 - > 00:21:47,359 pain or just being really busy, they have found ways to hack 436 00:21:47,359 - > 00:21:51,680 certain situations by using our internal version of Chat GPT. 437 00:21:51,920 - > 00:21:56,240 And one person in particular, she I think what's helped her is 438 00:21:56,319 - > 00:21:59,279 it seems like her default is I'm really stuck. 439 00:22:00,079 - > 00:22:02,720 How can I just use Chat GPT to help me through this? 440 00:22:03,039 - > 00:22:05,759 And there are other people on the team who've done the same 441 00:22:05,839 - > 00:22:08,720 when it's kind of like, gosh, I'm really time crunched, and 442 00:22:08,720 - > 00:22:13,039 something like you know, XYZ would take me potentially a day 443 00:22:13,039 - > 00:22:18,000 to do, and they use Chat GPT, the internal chat GPT instead to 444 00:22:18,000 - > 00:22:19,839 do it within maybe 10 minutes. 445 00:22:20,079 - > 00:22:25,599 So some examples are escalation emails when we have product 446 00:22:25,599 - > 00:22:28,960 escalations where we've got an angry customer who now has had, 447 00:22:29,039 - > 00:22:34,079 you know, a support ticket open for I won't give days or time 448 00:22:34,079 - > 00:22:35,839 frame, but it's a long time. 449 00:22:36,079 - > 00:22:39,119 And now, you know, let's say a bug has been identified and we 450 00:22:39,119 - > 00:22:42,480 know it's now a thing with product, and product are very 451 00:22:42,480 - > 00:22:45,119 busy and they have lots of projects. 452 00:22:45,279 - > 00:22:49,359 And it's how do we let product know what the impact is and what 453 00:22:49,359 - > 00:22:50,960 we need them to do and why? 454 00:22:51,119 - > 00:22:54,720 So historically, going through all of this and coming out with 455 00:22:54,720 - > 00:22:58,400 a very effective escalation email with all the right people 456 00:22:58,559 - > 00:23:01,519 in it, people in our line of leadership, people in product, 457 00:23:01,680 - > 00:23:05,599 people in support, people in sales, that could literally take 458 00:23:05,599 - > 00:23:09,599 a day just to refine it and make sure the points are all crystal 459 00:23:09,759 - > 00:23:13,839 clear and the ask is very clear, and the summary and the history 460 00:23:13,920 - > 00:23:16,559 and the tickets and like all the receipts of everything that's 461 00:23:16,559 - > 00:23:17,359 happened. 462 00:23:17,680 - > 00:23:21,920 So a person in my team, English isn't even her native language, 463 00:23:22,079 - > 00:23:22,720 as well. 464 00:23:23,039 - > 00:23:24,559 She was in that situation. 465 00:23:24,720 - > 00:23:26,960 And I'll never forget, I had a new email. 466 00:23:27,039 - > 00:23:30,160 I looked at it and I opened it, and I'm like, this is obviously 467 00:23:30,240 - > 00:23:31,359 it's an escalation email. 468 00:23:31,440 - > 00:23:33,839 I didn't hear anything about this, but it was so well 469 00:23:33,839 - > 00:23:34,240 written. 470 00:23:34,400 - > 00:23:37,599 And I gave her the feedback in my one-to-one. 471 00:23:37,839 - > 00:23:40,720 I was really impressed because we've been through this plenty 472 00:23:40,720 - > 00:23:42,160 of times before together. 473 00:23:42,400 - > 00:23:46,000 And I was like, How did you like you just really pulled that 474 00:23:46,000 - > 00:23:46,400 together? 475 00:23:46,559 - > 00:23:51,200 And she said, I actually just I used Chat GPT to, you know, she 476 00:23:51,200 - > 00:23:54,400 obviously gave it all the inputs because now we know after years 477 00:23:54,400 - > 00:23:57,039 of doing this, what the inputs are and what people need to 478 00:23:57,039 - > 00:23:59,759 hear, but it just cleaned it up so nicely for her. 479 00:24:00,000 - > 00:24:01,119 That's one example. 480 00:24:01,279 - > 00:24:04,720 And she did get a reaction that she needed from product 481 00:24:04,720 - > 00:24:05,599 leadership. 482 00:24:05,839 - > 00:24:09,359 Another one would be we have enablement that we help our 483 00:24:09,359 - > 00:24:13,039 customers with, and our product's very complex and it 484 00:24:13,039 - > 00:24:15,680 depends on the customer's environment and it's always 485 00:24:15,680 - > 00:24:18,960 changing, and there's always new features and upgrades. 486 00:24:19,200 - > 00:24:24,160 So enablement planning it needs to be tailored to the customer. 487 00:24:24,240 - > 00:24:26,880 And so there are people in my team who've started to also use 488 00:24:26,880 - > 00:24:30,960 our internal Chat GPT to help recommend enablement plans, as 489 00:24:30,960 - > 00:24:33,680 opposed to kind of like sitting there and going through your own 490 00:24:33,839 - > 00:24:36,960 all your notes and messing around with things. 491 00:24:37,119 - > 00:24:40,720 They have put their information into Chat GPT and it has helped 492 00:24:40,720 - > 00:24:45,359 recommend a sequence of offerings that we have, again, 493 00:24:45,599 - > 00:24:46,799 saving them time. 494 00:24:47,039 - > 00:24:50,799 So other places that we've used it is with we have account plans 495 00:24:50,799 - > 00:24:54,319 that we do, which is basically like a one-pager strategic 496 00:24:54,319 - > 00:24:55,920 overview of our customer. 497 00:24:56,079 - > 00:25:02,000 And we'll use these often for exact briefings, escalations, a 498 00:25:02,000 - > 00:25:04,480 way to demonstrate where we are with the customer. 499 00:25:04,559 - > 00:25:07,680 If we have like a new salesperson coming in, we've had 500 00:25:07,680 - > 00:25:12,079 people use the internal Chat GPT as well to help clean that up or 501 00:25:12,079 - > 00:25:15,599 just make it quicker and easier to get the content onto a page. 502 00:25:15,759 - > 00:25:19,920 Like it used to take some people weeks to get that. 503 00:25:20,640 - > 00:25:24,960 Another person, she had, you know, talking about new 504 00:25:24,960 - > 00:25:28,559 salespeople, she had a new sales team come in for a particular 505 00:25:28,559 - > 00:25:31,359 customer, and they had a meeting. 506 00:25:31,440 - > 00:25:34,880 And I think they gave her like a two-day notice and said, Hey, 507 00:25:34,960 - > 00:25:36,640 we're meeting the customer in a few days. 508 00:25:36,799 - > 00:25:39,599 What were their use cases of dynamics? 509 00:25:39,839 - > 00:25:44,880 And so she took two years of notes that she had taken over 510 00:25:44,880 - > 00:25:48,640 time, and she dropped all that into our ChatGPT, and it helped 511 00:25:48,640 - > 00:25:52,079 surface the use cases, which she then sent on to the team. 512 00:25:52,400 - > 00:25:56,240 It's a really nice story, too, because this customer in the end 513 00:25:56,319 - > 00:25:58,160 not only renewed, but they expanded. 514 00:25:58,319 - > 00:26:03,200 So it was just uh it's a good concrete example we have where 515 00:26:03,200 - > 00:26:05,920 someone, you know, leveraged an AI tool. 516 00:26:06,000 - > 00:26:09,039 Uh, and then we had in the end the customer renewing and 517 00:26:09,039 - > 00:26:10,000 expanding. 518 00:26:10,240 - > 00:26:14,640 And then I think for me as a leader, I use it as well for 519 00:26:14,640 - > 00:26:15,359 emails. 520 00:26:15,599 - > 00:26:19,920 We have to deal a lot with other other teams, other departments, 521 00:26:20,079 - > 00:26:24,400 and trying to always check myself and make sure that like 522 00:26:24,640 - > 00:26:28,720 emotion is being removed, especially when you're in 523 00:26:28,720 - > 00:26:34,559 intense situations or ensuring that even like as a female, that 524 00:26:34,559 - > 00:26:38,799 your response still has this like tone of leadership in it, 525 00:26:38,880 - > 00:26:42,880 as opposed to like apology and being apologetic, or you know, 526 00:26:42,960 - > 00:26:46,400 so I use it personally to correct and find those. 527 00:26:46,799 - > 00:26:47,839 SPEAKER_00: That's such a good point. 528 00:26:47,920 - > 00:26:52,559 I I also love using AI for kind of sounding executive, which 529 00:26:52,559 - > 00:26:57,759 means you know, you've given prompts as to make my ask very 530 00:26:57,759 - > 00:27:01,119 clear, very specific, you know, describe situations very clearly 531 00:27:01,200 - > 00:27:03,759 specifically because I could I could ramble around, like I 532 00:27:03,759 - > 00:27:04,880 could, I could write a lot. 533 00:27:05,200 - > 00:27:07,599 Uh or over-explaining, right? 534 00:27:07,759 - > 00:27:08,160 Yes, we do. 535 00:27:12,079 - > 00:27:13,680 SPEAKER_01: Give the facts, give the answer. 536 00:27:15,200 - > 00:27:15,519 unknown: Yeah. 537 00:27:15,839 - > 00:27:16,400 SPEAKER_00: I love that. 538 00:27:16,640 - > 00:27:19,519 Obviously, some of the things that you you you speak about is 539 00:27:19,519 - > 00:27:23,279 internal chat GPT, which means you have to create a good 540 00:27:23,279 - > 00:27:27,039 environment for the team where they can safely use it for their 541 00:27:27,039 - > 00:27:31,039 data, which means, of course, your kind of enterprise, either 542 00:27:31,039 - > 00:27:35,759 native chat GPT or enterprise package of any AI tools, so 543 00:27:35,759 - > 00:27:38,400 you're not giving any potential data outside. 544 00:27:38,559 - > 00:27:40,640 I guess you all know it already. 545 00:27:40,880 - > 00:27:44,720 The audience might be wondering how do you come to the point of 546 00:27:44,720 - > 00:27:47,039 having people like experiment a lot? 547 00:27:47,200 - > 00:27:50,000 It seems like they are doing it from their own pains, but like, 548 00:27:50,079 - > 00:27:54,799 did it come at the top of the uh the company-wide enablement, or 549 00:27:54,799 - > 00:27:55,440 was it you? 550 00:27:55,599 - > 00:27:58,000 Like, how do you even create that environment that they all 551 00:27:58,160 - > 00:28:01,440 can feel yes, I'm now empowered, let I can do whatever I want 552 00:28:01,759 - > 00:28:04,960 with with agents, like I can really go and experiment. 553 00:28:05,039 - > 00:28:05,920 There is no limit. 554 00:28:06,079 - > 00:28:07,599 How do you come to that point? 555 00:28:08,079 - > 00:28:10,559 SPEAKER_01: I like to highlight what other people in the team 556 00:28:10,559 - > 00:28:11,039 have done. 557 00:28:11,279 - > 00:28:14,720 So in my team meetings, I actually haven't been consistent 558 00:28:14,720 - > 00:28:20,000 about it, but I introduced a section in my team meeting deck 559 00:28:20,000 - > 00:28:23,119 where we just talk about the latest AI use cases that people 560 00:28:23,119 - > 00:28:23,839 in the team have done. 561 00:28:23,920 - > 00:28:28,079 And I think it just helps other people realize like, oh, either 562 00:28:28,160 - > 00:28:31,279 like I I have been using it, but I haven't been really talking 563 00:28:31,279 - > 00:28:34,400 about it and sharing my ideas, and they can help other people, 564 00:28:34,559 - > 00:28:36,960 or it makes other people realize, like, oh, I don't like 565 00:28:37,119 - > 00:28:39,680 like I should just try to remember it's always there and 566 00:28:39,680 - > 00:28:42,880 it's something, it's like an assistant or like a I like to 567 00:28:42,880 - > 00:28:43,839 think of it like an intern. 568 00:28:44,079 - > 00:28:48,480 It's a thing I can just if something is kind of you're 569 00:28:48,480 - > 00:28:51,519 procrastinating on it, it seems like it's something you don't 570 00:28:51,519 - > 00:28:52,240 really want to deal with. 571 00:28:52,319 - > 00:28:54,319 Usually it's because there's like a lot of other steps, 572 00:28:54,480 - > 00:28:54,640 right? 573 00:28:54,799 - > 00:28:59,759 So it's like then use don't forget the chat GPT is there to 574 00:28:59,759 - > 00:29:00,160 use that. 575 00:29:00,400 - > 00:29:04,240 So there's that, and I think just letting people know like 576 00:29:04,319 - > 00:29:06,000 it's okay to experiment. 577 00:29:06,079 - > 00:29:09,519 So there was someone in my team, it is a thing we look for when 578 00:29:09,519 - > 00:29:14,720 we do performance evaluations, not tied into like how we rate 579 00:29:14,720 - > 00:29:17,279 them or pay them, it's just like a developmental area. 580 00:29:17,440 - > 00:29:21,839 So I do in all my performance evaluations, I touch on AI and 581 00:29:21,839 - > 00:29:25,440 acknowledge the person for leveraging it or kind of 582 00:29:25,440 - > 00:29:27,759 encourage the person and say, I think you could be doing more. 583 00:29:27,839 - > 00:29:28,799 Here's some examples. 584 00:29:28,960 - > 00:29:31,039 And then I reinforce that in one-to-ones. 585 00:29:31,519 - > 00:29:35,200 So there was someone in my team where they had brought up a 586 00:29:35,200 - > 00:29:39,759 point and said, look, we every month, you know, leadership 587 00:29:39,759 - > 00:29:41,599 release what we call manager packs. 588 00:29:41,680 - > 00:29:43,680 And there's a lot of information in there, and they're meant to 589 00:29:43,680 - > 00:29:46,640 be shared with customers, but there's also a lot of internal 590 00:29:46,640 - > 00:29:47,759 information in there. 591 00:29:48,240 - > 00:29:50,799 Can we not just get only a customer-facing one? 592 00:29:50,960 - > 00:29:54,799 So I actually challenged her and said, Why don't you uh try 593 00:29:54,799 - > 00:29:58,640 uploading it into our Chat GPT and ask it to remove all the 594 00:29:58,640 - > 00:30:01,279 internal content and just give you the external, uh, the 595 00:30:01,279 - > 00:30:03,599 customer-facing content in a new deck? 596 00:30:03,920 - > 00:30:05,200 And she did that. 597 00:30:05,440 - > 00:30:07,920 And we went through the results and they were poor. 598 00:30:08,160 - > 00:30:11,839 The content was really awful, the slides looked really awful. 599 00:30:11,920 - > 00:30:14,559 It's just bullet points, like there's no life to it. 600 00:30:14,720 - > 00:30:16,000 It's not great. 601 00:30:16,319 - > 00:30:20,640 But I I gave her a lot of support and encouragement for 602 00:30:20,640 - > 00:30:22,240 trying it and said this is how it will be. 603 00:30:22,319 - > 00:30:23,759 It's just about trial and error. 604 00:30:23,839 - > 00:30:26,319 And we try it again when the next version's released, and 605 00:30:26,319 - > 00:30:28,640 maybe when it gets a little better at making PowerPoints. 606 00:30:28,720 - > 00:30:32,400 And so I think it's just making sure that it's there's this 607 00:30:32,400 - > 00:30:34,880 mindset of like there's no such thing as failing with it. 608 00:30:35,039 - > 00:30:37,839 You can only just learn from it, and it takes trial and error 609 00:30:37,839 - > 00:30:39,519 before you get some wins. 610 00:30:40,319 - > 00:30:42,319 SPEAKER_00: And that's so important because just because 611 00:30:42,319 - > 00:30:45,279 you're trying it a few times and maybe you don't see great 612 00:30:45,279 - > 00:30:48,160 results doesn't mean that it won't become better simply 613 00:30:48,160 - > 00:30:51,599 because you have to use it to train it to improve it. 614 00:30:53,119 - > 00:30:55,839 You mentioned a few times, like, oh, those are the things that 615 00:30:55,839 - > 00:30:58,880 would take the team a few days and then it happens very 616 00:30:58,880 - > 00:31:02,559 quickly, which is some obvious evidence that usage of those 617 00:31:02,559 - > 00:31:04,640 types of tools is saving your people's time. 618 00:31:05,279 - > 00:31:08,640 Now, time with customer success is always just so important 619 00:31:08,640 - > 00:31:12,079 because they can do so many other things with the time that 620 00:31:12,079 - > 00:31:12,559 they save. 621 00:31:12,880 - > 00:31:17,759 Which brings me to another thing I wanted to ask you the skills 622 00:31:17,759 - > 00:31:22,559 of being adaptable, trying something new, getting into AI 623 00:31:22,559 - > 00:31:26,640 usage, and so many other skills that we can't even envisage now 624 00:31:26,720 - > 00:31:28,480 that we will see in the future. 625 00:31:28,640 - > 00:31:32,400 Like what are or what is the skill set that you're seeing now 626 00:31:32,400 - > 00:31:35,920 that you want to have in CSMs versus maybe a few years ago 627 00:31:35,920 - > 00:31:38,640 when you were hiring, maybe probably in the context of AI, 628 00:31:38,720 - > 00:31:43,359 because it seems that the AI environment is really changing 629 00:31:43,359 - > 00:31:46,240 the requirements of our roles and the skill set. 630 00:31:46,559 - > 00:31:47,200 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 631 00:31:47,440 - > 00:31:47,839 Yeah. 632 00:31:48,079 - > 00:31:52,160 I think one of the first things would be a level of business 633 00:31:52,400 - > 00:31:58,960 acumen and testing for that, because AI can do a lot of 634 00:31:58,960 - > 00:32:02,480 things and it's evolving rapidly, but you still need 635 00:32:02,480 - > 00:32:05,440 people who can be very human, people who know how to read a 636 00:32:05,440 - > 00:32:10,720 room, people who can take all of this change and information 637 00:32:10,720 - > 00:32:14,400 that's happening around them, change that's happening on their 638 00:32:14,400 - > 00:32:18,319 customers' end, and staying aligned to their goals and their 639 00:32:18,319 - > 00:32:21,599 outcomes, and change that's happening internally in our 640 00:32:21,599 - > 00:32:26,319 company and our strategy, and like kind of know how to link 641 00:32:26,319 - > 00:32:29,279 that together without it always being spelled out because the 642 00:32:29,279 - > 00:32:30,640 change is so rapid now. 643 00:32:30,799 - > 00:32:35,599 It's coming in shorter cycles, and just knowing how to give 644 00:32:35,599 - > 00:32:38,559 that to a customer, but equally still being able to be very 645 00:32:38,559 - > 00:32:42,559 technical because in Cisco and customer success, our focus is 646 00:32:42,559 - > 00:32:46,000 adoption and we are meant to be technical, but you do need a 647 00:32:46,000 - > 00:32:50,880 level of business acumen so that you know how to stay aligned to 648 00:32:50,880 - > 00:32:54,480 the customer and to the company and know all the change that's 649 00:32:54,480 - > 00:32:55,119 happening around you. 650 00:32:55,200 - > 00:32:57,200 So business acumen is really important. 651 00:32:57,599 - > 00:33:01,599 You can't afford just to like say to focus on your lane, and 652 00:33:01,680 - > 00:33:04,720 that's all I'm gonna do, and that's all I care about. 653 00:33:04,799 - > 00:33:07,519 Like, no, you there are so many other people now that you have 654 00:33:07,519 - > 00:33:10,720 to work with just to get things done for your customer, and you 655 00:33:10,720 - > 00:33:14,880 need to understand their goals as well and what's impacting 656 00:33:14,880 - > 00:33:16,720 them and how to influence them. 657 00:33:16,960 - > 00:33:20,640 So being a customer success person now is a lot like being 658 00:33:20,640 - > 00:33:23,440 an account manager, but you've got to know the product really 659 00:33:23,759 - > 00:33:24,079 well. 660 00:33:24,559 - > 00:33:27,680 The other thing I would say is I think it's still really 661 00:33:27,680 - > 00:33:28,000 important. 662 00:33:28,160 - > 00:33:32,720 This was an F-Dynamic thing, but a trait is to be coachable, and 663 00:33:32,720 - > 00:33:34,240 that's because of all the change. 664 00:33:34,480 - > 00:33:39,759 So being someone who's able to take feedback and act upon it 665 00:33:39,920 - > 00:33:44,799 and like know to drop your ego or be aware that you have an ego 666 00:33:44,880 - > 00:33:47,920 or be aware that you might be feeling defensive, these are 667 00:33:47,920 - > 00:33:52,480 important because we have a lot of, I guess, like serious, I 668 00:33:52,480 - > 00:33:54,880 shouldn't say serious because our one-to-ones are generally 669 00:33:54,880 - > 00:33:57,279 like really enjoyable, but sometimes you have to have tough 670 00:33:57,279 - > 00:33:58,079 conversations. 671 00:33:58,720 - > 00:34:04,559 And if you are with people who can be comfortable and able to 672 00:34:04,559 - > 00:34:08,719 have a tough conversation and and also give it back to you as 673 00:34:08,719 - > 00:34:15,039 a leader, then that really like elevates the team together and 674 00:34:15,039 - > 00:34:17,119 the that individual and their performance. 675 00:34:17,199 - > 00:34:19,199 So the coachability is still really important. 676 00:34:19,519 - > 00:34:22,000 Yeah, I would say those are those are the major things. 677 00:34:22,239 - > 00:34:26,880 And just as you said, being adaptable, like just this 678 00:34:27,199 - > 00:34:28,960 knowing things are gonna change. 679 00:34:29,679 - > 00:34:34,480 I guess a fourth one too would be like a resilience, because 680 00:34:35,280 - > 00:34:40,480 you need to always stay focused on like things around you might 681 00:34:40,480 - > 00:34:42,639 be frustrating, but what can you do? 682 00:34:42,800 - > 00:34:44,320 What can you still do about it? 683 00:34:44,639 - > 00:34:49,599 Because if you start to get into this kind of victim mindset or 684 00:34:49,599 - > 00:34:54,159 feeling like you're going down a dark into a dark place, you're 685 00:34:54,159 - > 00:34:55,280 gonna burn out. 686 00:34:56,000 - > 00:34:59,119 So a level of resilience is also key. 687 00:35:00,079 - > 00:35:00,880 SPEAKER_00: I love that. 688 00:35:01,199 - > 00:35:04,000 Most of the skills that you're mentioning are kind of very 689 00:35:04,000 - > 00:35:07,519 human, very soft skills that we all have to learn. 690 00:35:07,760 - > 00:35:10,079 And no AI will help us with that. 691 00:35:10,239 - > 00:35:14,079 So I really love how from one hand we are moving so rapidly in 692 00:35:14,079 - > 00:35:18,159 in automation and just loads of different help with AI and other 693 00:35:18,159 - > 00:35:21,119 types of you know, languages and tools. 694 00:35:21,199 - > 00:35:24,480 But on another hand, yes, what we need is that humanity, 695 00:35:24,719 - > 00:35:28,320 understanding the actual person, that business acumen and 696 00:35:28,880 - > 00:35:30,480 resilience, coachability. 697 00:35:30,639 - > 00:35:33,920 I love that you are recognizing how that is incredibly important 698 00:35:33,920 - > 00:35:35,519 moving forward for CSMs. 699 00:35:35,920 - > 00:35:39,039 SPEAKER_01: It's a quickly changing world and the people, 700 00:35:39,440 - > 00:35:41,760 like just from what I've observed, the people that 701 00:35:41,760 - > 00:35:44,639 thrive, you know, they they obviously have their down days, 702 00:35:44,719 - > 00:35:46,159 they have their down periods. 703 00:35:46,320 - > 00:35:49,199 And I talk openly about that with them that you're meant to. 704 00:35:49,360 - > 00:35:53,280 It's cyclical and it's kind of like ride ride the high and then 705 00:35:53,280 - > 00:35:55,920 know when you're in the low and know that you need to take a 706 00:35:55,920 - > 00:35:56,159 break. 707 00:35:56,320 - > 00:35:59,840 And again, like with AI, people talk about like, okay, you have 708 00:35:59,840 - > 00:36:02,079 more time, so you have more time to be productive. 709 00:36:02,400 - > 00:36:06,000 But with my team, I think of it like, yeah, that's nice, but 710 00:36:06,000 - > 00:36:08,639 they have more time to be human. 711 00:36:08,800 - > 00:36:12,079 Maybe they have time to take a lunch break, they have time to 712 00:36:12,079 - > 00:36:16,159 go out for a walk, and they have time to go to the gym, they have 713 00:36:16,159 - > 00:36:20,000 time to do whatever they needed to do personally or connect with 714 00:36:20,000 - > 00:36:20,400 someone. 715 00:36:20,559 - > 00:36:25,920 And we as CS, we get so much dumped into our bucket, people 716 00:36:25,920 - > 00:36:27,119 forget that too. 717 00:36:27,280 - > 00:36:27,920 That's it. 718 00:36:28,159 - > 00:36:29,440 SPEAKER_00: And that is so crucial. 719 00:36:29,599 - > 00:36:31,280 I am so happy that you said that. 720 00:36:31,440 - > 00:36:34,880 Yes, people need to have life as well, which includes going to 721 00:36:34,880 - > 00:36:39,119 the gym, taking out the dog for a walk, uh, or or eating lunch, 722 00:36:39,280 - > 00:36:42,400 because for many years it was all about efficiency, 723 00:36:42,559 - > 00:36:44,239 efficiency, productivity, CSM. 724 00:36:44,320 - > 00:36:46,159 Oh, you have free time, like let's fill it in. 725 00:36:46,320 - > 00:36:49,360 It was always that constant rush of uh you constantly have to do 726 00:36:49,360 - > 00:36:49,760 something. 727 00:36:50,000 - > 00:36:52,880 No, you will be much better off and much more productive and 728 00:36:52,880 - > 00:36:56,800 more capable if you have life and if you if you just manage to 729 00:36:57,679 - > 00:37:01,440 kind of have a healthy, not even balance, but healthy approach to 730 00:37:01,440 - > 00:37:02,639 your work and life. 731 00:37:03,119 - > 00:37:05,360 So I'm really glad that you are talking about it from the 732 00:37:05,360 - > 00:37:08,320 leadership perspective because when it's coming from the leader 733 00:37:08,320 - > 00:37:10,719 of a team, it has a particular weight. 734 00:37:10,800 - > 00:37:13,760 And and I hope that everybody can kind of feel that they have 735 00:37:13,760 - > 00:37:15,679 permission to just do that. 736 00:37:15,840 - > 00:37:17,039 Leave, leave while you're working. 737 00:37:17,360 - > 00:37:19,360 SPEAKER_01: And that's how they show up with customers, too, 738 00:37:19,440 - > 00:37:19,599 right? 739 00:37:19,679 - > 00:37:23,679 You don't want your CSM to be drained and exhausted all the 740 00:37:23,679 - > 00:37:23,920 time. 741 00:37:24,079 - > 00:37:27,679 They'll be in a mindset that's probably not the best for the 742 00:37:27,679 - > 00:37:28,400 customer either. 743 00:37:28,559 - > 00:37:33,039 You want them to feel that they can tap into all the human parts 744 00:37:33,039 - > 00:37:36,159 that they need to to relate to the customer, to hear the 745 00:37:36,159 - > 00:37:37,519 customer and be present for them. 746 00:37:37,599 - > 00:37:42,000 And they can't do that if it's always go, go, go, which that's 747 00:37:42,000 - > 00:37:42,639 the reality. 748 00:37:42,800 - > 00:37:46,000 That's that's how it is right now, even with us using AI. 749 00:37:46,159 - > 00:37:49,280 We haven't hit this point, right, where we do have all this 750 00:37:49,280 - > 00:37:50,800 time and a great balance. 751 00:37:51,119 - > 00:37:56,239 But that's something that I hope we can achieve instead of always 752 00:37:56,239 - > 00:37:58,480 just looking at like, well, what did we slot that time with 753 00:37:58,559 - > 00:37:58,880 instead? 754 00:37:59,119 - > 00:38:00,079 That's work-related. 755 00:38:00,239 - > 00:38:03,440 SPEAKER_00: So Tamara, this has been so enjoyable. 756 00:38:03,519 - > 00:38:07,599 I'm really grateful that you you joined me today that we spoke 757 00:38:07,599 - > 00:38:13,199 about your amazing journey in many different companies through 758 00:38:13,199 - > 00:38:16,480 various roles into customer success, and then you as a 759 00:38:16,480 - > 00:38:16,960 leader. 760 00:38:17,199 - > 00:38:21,679 As you're wrapping up, I I would like to hear from you what based 761 00:38:21,679 - > 00:38:23,760 on your leadership journey so far. 762 00:38:24,000 - > 00:38:26,880 Is there one message or advice that you would give to the 763 00:38:26,880 - > 00:38:30,079 aspiring leaders in customer success? 764 00:38:31,440 - > 00:38:35,599 SPEAKER_01: I would say it's like it's not a one size fits 765 00:38:35,760 - > 00:38:36,079 all. 766 00:38:36,239 - > 00:38:41,920 So much of leadership is it is EQ and there's IQ too. 767 00:38:42,159 - > 00:38:46,400 But your ability to like meet your team where they are, and 768 00:38:46,400 - > 00:38:50,159 your ability to meet individuals where they are, I would say 769 00:38:50,159 - > 00:38:54,719 that's the most important trait of being a leader because 770 00:38:54,719 - > 00:38:55,840 everyone's different. 771 00:38:56,079 - > 00:39:02,239 And customer success is like a very endurance heavy role. 772 00:39:02,480 - > 00:39:07,840 And to keep CSMs going, you have to be able to know when they 773 00:39:07,840 - > 00:39:11,840 need, like maybe a little push and a reminder that they can do 774 00:39:11,840 - > 00:39:15,519 what they need to do, because maybe they their confidence has 775 00:39:15,519 - > 00:39:18,320 been hit or something's happened and it feels like a setback. 776 00:39:18,400 - > 00:39:21,760 But also knowing when to tell them, like, actually, you've 777 00:39:21,760 - > 00:39:26,320 done all you can here, or I think you need a break and you 778 00:39:26,480 - > 00:39:29,519 you're not where you should be right now in your you know, your 779 00:39:29,679 - > 00:39:34,159 headspace, or knowing like when you're running a team meeting is 780 00:39:34,559 - > 00:39:37,440 sometimes you have to you just have to be able to adapt, adapt 781 00:39:37,440 - > 00:39:38,400 your messaging. 782 00:39:38,639 - > 00:39:40,159 Are are people with you? 783 00:39:40,400 - > 00:39:41,360 Are some of them lost? 784 00:39:41,599 - > 00:39:45,039 You need to change how you're delivering the messages, and 785 00:39:45,679 - > 00:39:49,440 that would be my greatest advice to people who want to be 786 00:39:49,440 - > 00:39:49,920 leaders. 787 00:39:50,079 - > 00:39:52,320 It's it's a people job. 788 00:39:53,119 - > 00:39:54,960 SPEAKER_00: What a wonderful message for the end. 789 00:39:55,119 - > 00:39:56,400 Meet people where they are. 790 00:39:56,639 - > 00:39:58,480 Tamara, this has been wonderful. 791 00:39:58,639 - > 00:40:00,559 Thank you so much for joining us today. 792 00:40:00,880 - > 00:40:01,920 SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Maria. 793 00:40:02,079 - > 00:40:02,400 Thank you. 794 00:40:02,480 - > 00:40:03,119 It's been great. 795 00:40:03,280 - > 00:40:04,960 Thanks for the great questions. 796 00:40:06,159 - > 00:40:08,880 SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to today's episode. 797 00:40:09,119 - > 00:40:13,440 I really appreciate you taking time to learn something new and 798 00:40:13,440 - > 00:40:16,159 propel your career in customer success and beyond. 799 00:40:16,320 - > 00:40:20,079 If you like this episode, share it with your colleague, with 800 00:40:20,079 - > 00:40:24,639 your team member, with someone you know needs to hear it today. 801 00:40:25,039 - > 00:40:28,800 We appreciate your support, so please follow us and subscribe 802 00:40:28,800 - > 00:40:32,800 to our channels so many more women can hear about it.