Suman Guha on Nation-Building, Global Commerce & Purpose-Driven Leadership at Tata Group

Speaker A: The idea of what they started the company, the idea was, uh, we see the world as a global narrative of the nation. So how do we help everyone? Because if you help everybody, then naturally you live a uh, better life. I mean that's the idea.

Speaker B: Welcome to Bitex Live, the podcast where digital transformation gets a reality check. I am Santiago Naranjo from Bittex. And this is where we break the rules, rewrite the playbook and hear from leaders who are actually getting results. Let's get into it.

Speaker C: Um, I am Santiago Naranjo, chief revenue officer of Bittex. Been working with the company for the last eight years. Before that I worked 10 years on retail, literally in physical stores, marketing. I was leading one of the biggest fashion brands in Latam. So I learned a lot to do that. Then I find Bitex trying to do an online operation. We have so much fun together. We connect, move out of that company, create my consultancy company. And then Bitex acquired me and uh, I became a shareholder. Uh, very nice, a little Bitex and then very excited to have you. Our second day of BTEX day. I just find out that this Guy traveled almost 19 hours. How many hours?

Speaker A: Roughly about 24 hours from Mumbai.

Speaker C: 24 hours from Mumbai to arrive here to the Posca to Sao Paulo. And um, the most funny part is that yesterday night, very late like 11 pa, I was walking through the hotel trying to take a coffee. So I have a boy for today and he was just there trying to have some food. How you take a 24 hours travel to be here? What inspires you? It is not easy. You are a business person that travel a lot. Why you decide to come to Brazil? What are uh, the main reason you are here?

Speaker A: Hey, first of all, thanks for inviting me. Super excited to see the buzz. I mean once I landed I heard about VTechs from India, but I think I had to see this live. The energy is there I think which is really driving all of us. Though I was kind of lost of energy yesterday. You're also tired.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: Spoiler. Uh, but definitely I think super excited to be here. Why I'm here, I'm here to evaluate. At this point I'm looking at multiple tech platforms. I thought this is a good opportunity to meet the leadership team and also would love to invite all of you in India to meet the Tata group.

Speaker C: We will be there for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think couple of takeaways. I would look forward to see the VTech's presentations, what it has done with the various customers, get to talk to you and Your leadership team. I think that will also give me a good sense about what's your North Star in the next few years.

Speaker C: Nice.

Speaker A: And yeah, I think these will be some takeaways. And then I can pass it on to the chairman with entire group.

Speaker C: Nice. Thank you so much. It is not normal that.

Speaker A: So I am born in a city called, uh, Calcutta in India. Calcutta. During the British rule, it used to be the capital of India.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: And then Delhi become capital of India. And it has got a very heritage, uh, culture. One of the famous poet, he was a, uh, Nobel winner. And I know Sao Paulo, Brazil. A big lover of art, right?

Speaker C: Yes, yes.

Speaker A: He was most precedented person. This was during the British rule 200 years ago. And he owned the novel, uh, as well. So I come from that city. And then I studied outside my city about 24 years back, as much as I remember. And then I think I started traveling around 2020. I was in the UK. I started, did my masters.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: Had my first job, started a company in Finland with one of my, uh, friend.

Speaker C: Finland.

Speaker A: In Finland, because he was working at Google. So naturally I traveled. And I'm a football lover. That's the funny thing.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Going back to the ronaldo.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Says 1994 now you'll be there.

Speaker C: We need to go together to Manchester City.

Speaker A: I would love to do that.

Speaker C: Let's do it. We did a powerful alliance with Manchester City, where they're in the final. They not having a good season this year, but. But hopefully next year they will make it again.

Speaker A: So. Yeah, it's been 18 years in the industry, but I think I'll just reverse what you said. My first 10 years has been working with SaaS companies in the United States and also in the Europe. So I naturally traveled in the first 10 years. And then I thought, you know, while all these customers are using the SaaS companies, how do I work for them and, uh, make that same impact? Then I work for some, uh, leading commerce companies like Tesco in the UK.

Speaker C: Huge one.

Speaker A: Yeah. $90 billion. And I was this chief product officer for the first three years. Uh, and during the COVID time, that

Speaker C: is the peak of the technology and that Covid.

Speaker A: Uh, and so naturally I traveled, uh, for all sort of reasons. Could be acquisitions, could be, uh, you know, talking to the leading CEOs. So, yeah, I mean, I love traveling, but now these days I don't love it so much. And off the record, uh, what I was telling you, I still travel, uh, about two weeks within a month. So this was a little bit of a Challenge at the very last minute. But looking at, you know, your invitation and Prakash and others calling it out, it was too tempting. I thought, you know, let's take a chance.

Speaker C: Thanks so much.

Speaker A: I think as a person and maybe some reference. India is um, though it's a very different culture from Brazil. People are full of energy and I see that in Latam as a whole.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: I think there's a lot of people with a lot of culture and excitement, energy. There's a common thing and I am here, love it.

Speaker C: I think yes. India, Latin America, uh, even though we have different political or religion concept, the energy absolutely is something that connect us. And when you see a Latin American, they always match immediately. They are all dancing or making business or having fun. But this concept of being close, of the values of the family, the values of how you create connection is very similar between Latin American.

Speaker A: And one more thing common football.

Speaker C: We are obsessed with football, you know, but I think also football create this sense of a ah, team and passion. With all the respect to other sports, but also, um, there are a lot of sport are very individuals oriented.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker C: Football, you need 21 to have 11. You know, it's not only one champion, it's a team. And normally you follow that team because your mother or your father bring it to the family. So you end up being a uh, follower of specific team for family values, not even for how they play. It's more about uh, this concept. Yeah, I agree with you. So let me start with the travel part.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker C: Both of us travel two or three weeks per month and it's not an easy trade off. Sometimes people will say, oh, that is amazing. M. That is beautiful. You are able to know the world and people pay you for that. That is the most amazing job in the world. Let me start so you can feel comfortable. That is, you know, when you are working and you are out all the time, it is not tourism. You are not on uh, holidays. You are working normally 20 to 19 hours per day with different cultures, different challenges, different people. You need to maintain the things in your house, in your country, operating fl. You need to deliver, uh, for the thing that you travel and people don't recognize. Also the families of these executives suffer a lot. I always have conversation with my wife and normally she miss me. Uh, sometimes our kids, our friends can miss us. But also let don't complain too much because also in a way I like it. I also in a way I love it because it's how we can conquer the world, can know new cultures, can literally prove ourselves that we can do business around the world and don't need to be only the Germans or UK or the gringos to be the ones to manage the world. I think there are a lot of countries and people out there that can do it and also that drive me. So now I put some energy on the table. Share with your opinion about how you see it, how you manage this.

Speaker A: There are a couple of tenants. Right. When I look at answering this it also a little bit about who you are. So all these companies, you know I have worked in last 18, uh, 19 years and family like you rightly said, family plays a big role in the making of who we are.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Starting from kids. You know, kid would wait and say when are you coming back? That's the funny thing. Right.

Speaker C: How many kids do you have?

Speaker A: I have got one daughter, seven year old.

Speaker C: So uh, she's waiting that age is her.

Speaker A: So it's a perfect age. She's learning stuff very quickly. And she's also done some research about SAO Apollo. She asked me all the details, you know, where are you flying?

Speaker C: You need to buy some cool things for her.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And with the iPad she has the world with her. Right. All the time she is, you know about know everything that you must try xyz. But I think going back to the core is when we define who we are. It's a little bit of context, setting I think that will help I think. See I have made a choice in my life and it's a choice by own self. Number one is wherever I lead, whatever I lead, put the user first within your region. Just knowing about your user, I think it could be very tempting. But it doesn't give you the global perspective. So the area I lead within Tara Group at least my portfolio is about $10 billion. Commerce portfolio starting from quick commerce, luxury electronics, all the leading luxury brands, about 5,500 brands we sell within the ecosystem. I think having a global perspective is very important. So travels teach me that the culture uh, and the get to meet people like you rightly said. Even though it's a 19, 20 hours maybe 5% of the time I feel like I'm working to be very honest with you. But the rest of the time I don't feel like working.

Speaker C: That is interesting.

Speaker A: I think it also goes back to who you are because once you put your purpose then you know who you are and then you know it's not work. It's like the game, game of football. You're playing the game, you're playing the game and you're training yourself. So I think uh, we need to train ourselves and you need to build a team. You need to build technology. You need to build the technology for the right user at the right time. And the users are always teaching us. And I always feel emerging economies are very similar on construct. Right. Um, maybe different by culture. But if you look at the trends in latam versus trends in Asia, the growth rate very similar, it's moving at a very different pace. But a lot of common things are happening around the world. Right. Because everybody, I have the magnitude of all the devices. Technology is available with everyone. So what used to happen 30 years ago, now it is happening in 12 months, five months, six months. So I think uh, these travels give us a lot of perspective. So that's one dimension. Second is you getting to understand what others are doing and then how they're solving it. I think that is also key because the same solution may not be applicable in some countries, some markets. So I think having that empathy travels open up that for you. And I think the more people you meet, you understand generally people are helpful. I like to think that. And uh, and I think, look, Tata group itself is a large opportunity. It sells everything from steels to technology, power, chemical, anything, you name it. Jaguar, Land Rover, all these companies. It owns $160 billion. So I'm sure there are executives which are like myself, you know, we're also traveling. As long as I don't feel overwhelmed, you know, I enjoy it. And also one of the core, uh, final point is we put 62% of our profit to nonprofit every year as a group. Yeah.

Speaker C: How much?

Speaker A: 62% of our profit goes into non profit as a Tata group.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And we have been doing this for last 100 years. So Tata Group started in 1994.

Speaker C: Let's repeat it again. That is not normal.

Speaker A: So it started in 1918 as uh, a steel company.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: In India. Now it is even in talks to make Fire Air Cafe locate Martin. Uh, in India.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: So and then they have presence in 100 countries I think including Brazil. Quite a few offices for tcs, Tata Consultancy Service which is again a tata zam. Um, 2530 billion dollar units. So I think it's very diverse culture. So 110 nationalities work here. So I think once you travel and you meet these teams, you know that gives you so much energy. And I have taken so much time to explain you. One of my very close friend.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: He used to compare me that how do you get this energy? I can see you got so much energy. I've been coming. I'm hoping I can at least try to match close to yours. Yesterday was a little bit jet lagged. But when I look at the whole nonprofit uh contribution in Tata, uh globally.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: And it is not a one year ah two year thing. It's 100 years they're doing it. It gives a lot of drive. So I think that is the purpose.

Speaker C: I heard a lot about Tata Group in the past. As I say, I believe that you are running the world. We admire you and your team and your company even though we didn't know this nonprofit approach that is purpose. I can even understand how people are also so motivated to be close to Tata Group because it is not only about money. Of course you need to generate money to be able to pay taxes to create a society, to create an economy that allowed everyone to move forward. But to understand that the nonprofit goes in that direction is something that all leaders should evaluate. Because I can see for example like Silicon Valley, like San Francisco that they did hundreds of hundreds of billions of dollars. I'm sorry guys of Silicon Valley of San Francisco. But that's the time I went there. They have more people in the street like doing drugs than executive baking business. And this is like hyper capitalists only go against the same humans on the same regions. Like when you go to India, you can see our country that is popping up, that is full of energy, that is getting ready to be there for the rest and to help the rest of the world not only to or to conquer or to lead. I can see that in the culture of the India. The Indians want to help to be there to enable connection. It's not a competition. The Indians want just to be good enough for their team, for their people and for everyone that need them. And this is a uh, purpose drive economy and purpose drive team. And also I do get some great hair. And after like you make some millions in the bag you start to understand that say look, it is not everything about making money.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: You are not going to be here all the life. You're going to die when the energy defined. So it's good to also allow or create good spaces with environment for new generations to to be here. Because if we are here is thanks to other people that maybe allow us to.

Speaker A: Brilliant, brilliant point. How you summarize and I think just to add maybe some color to it. I read this book pretty early in my age. I'm an author by the way. Seriously free time. I thought I'll reveal it. It's called Winning the digital edge with

Speaker C: data let's put it, let's put it here. That book, please. In the podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah. Winning the Digital Edge. We needed Digital Age and it became uh, the bestseller in Amazon a couple of years back.

Speaker C: Wow, congrats.

Speaker A: We need uh, so like you rightly said, it's not about the millions in the bank because when we die it's not about how much wealth you have, it's about who you are. One of our chairman, Ratan Tata, he passed away last year. So you could imagine when he passed away everybody in the world because when he looked at nonprofit, he didn't thought of only India and Indians put the money across the world. That was the idea. I think that is a narrative and you know, and that also comes with a lot of responsibility for me. I mean when I look at a uh, technology partner, it's not just a client and a partner relation. It's not about buying, selling somebody who is here for long, long haul.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Because the opportunity is massive. But then can we really like scale it up and solve and in India, to give you a sense, uh, luxury, at least what I've seen it is growing at a 60% year on year. I don't think any market growing at 60%. Not technology anymore, no technology. And if you look at the entire group, it is growing at 25% at $160 billion run rate, that size, that growth. So that basically needs a uh, long time mindset and we also want to make sure that we give the money back to the nonprofits. So we don't want to make bad choices, I guess. So it's a lot of responsibility uh, on anyone.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I can see that. And also as a part uh, of the team, as an employee. I think sometimes companies try to push the vision of the company through the vision of the employees. But sometimes some companies are, they're hyper capitalist companies, they only want to make money for the investors. This is not what employees dream to do that you know, as a human being, of course you want to have some money. But your vision, your purpose as a human ah is to not to wake up 7am, work 12 hours, go night and make other person rich and you have enough money in your balance. That is not why people come to this world. So an invitation for founders sealed is not for the employees to get into the vision of just making money for the owners, but maybe the company to have a purpose.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: To have a vision that can connect and really like allow humans that want to you to be part of that vision with purpose and join that company.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: And um, that is fundamental, I think in the new way that we are going to operate is beautiful. I never heard about that in the size of the group. Love it, love it. Let's go to another angle because if not we are going to go deep on that. But I want to know a little bit about how Tata Group is structured, evolve. It is only services, it is only fashion. What are the division of Tata Group? People can believe that they understand Tata Group. When they say, someone say ah, this is Tata Group. I say ah.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker C: Okay. Some huge group in India. It's more than that. Yeah. Can you give us like overviews of people can get it they want, uh, outside of that big world?

Speaker A: Sure. It's a great question. I hope I'll try to do a good job. It's a tough one because we tend to always think about what we own as a portfolio. So I think Tata Group represent as a company, as a mission. When it started. I'll talk about the mission a little bit. It is to build a nation. It wasn't about building a private company. It was to build the nation. What can we do to build a nation? And the first move came in 1918. And this was that time, you know, 100 years back. The only way to build nation that time was to own the steel. You have to make your own steel. Because if you make your own steel then you can build your own construction, own buildings. And the country needed it. So it learned everything from North America. It came, it did partnerships, it had their own jet, all of that in India. But it really started with nation building. And as a company, it is a product company, I would say services. Yeah, it's a product company, be it a power, uh, sector. So when I say power sector, imagine India with uh, 1.4 billion people. We are naturally moving towards electric and uh, we're moving extremely fast. So currently in the automobile market, Tata Group is a $45 billion revenue maker and growing at a 30% on the electric sector in the country. 30% year on year. I can't speak of other groups, but I think they also have seen a lot of growth. Because what's happening is if you look at the population, I think we have to understand the population to look at this group's mission. Young people making smart choices. They have learned from their parents, they have lived, uh, with their grandparents. They have learned how to make smart choices. They're reading, well read. They're going to good schools. So naturally, when you have got exposure, uh, they're thinking about climate, they're thinking about environment. So again, it's not about can you own a Mercedes or a BMW or a Jaguar? Yeah, well, I need electric one. Until you have one, I will not own it. It's about conscious. So I think Tata Group, when it's a nation building, it's the biggest, uh, short of the horizontal, if you drive it, then everything you need to do, you do it right for the nation and for the bigger nation. And ah, the second part of the vision, the vision statement from the mission statement is to build a most, uh, comprehensive global community which can pass on the nonprofit. But just because we contribute a lot of money on nonprofit, we are serious in business. So we move at a very fast pace. All of that is fast and frugal, very agile. None of our bosses allow us to move slow. So I'll just now, um, maybe step down and focus on the commerce part. So within the commerce ecosystem, you know, we got quick commerce, electronics, luxury, fast fashion. Each of these are like between 2 to 5 billion dollars business. And which is what, you know, part of. I'm leading a digital transformation for this $10 billion portfolio right now. And here the mission is to build a context, our intelligent personalized experience for the customer.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: And uh, then that's the sort uh, of the mission, what we are after. I think now people are no longer talking about channels. Channels are done and dusted. Now it is from channel to context. Do I know Santiago is in Sao Paulo? Whether it is a digital touch point or a stores touch point or maybe in a car. Because we hold the cars ecosystem too. I mean you can buy it from there. I mean you can acquire from anywhere. I mean that's the distribution. And funny enough, we have done a recent deal with Mercedes in India. Uh, yeah. And ah, some of our luxury products are sitting in Mercedes in the car. And also Mercedes luxury portfolios.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: The people who are fan of Mercedes, they're sitting in our Tata click luxury marketplace. So what I'm trying to say that while nation, uh building is the mission, but each part of the conglomerate have their own vision.

Speaker C: Nation building is the vision.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the idea, when they started the company, the idea was the we see the world as a global narrative of the nation. So how do we help everyone? Because if you help everybody, then you know, naturally you live a better, uh, life. I mean that's the idea.

Speaker C: Love it. And let me ask you a difficult uh, question because in VTEX we have more than 1000 people, 43 countries and we operate in diverse environments. We are rooted in Brazil. Then we grow Turatham. Um, and now we are selling around the world. And it's always this concept of are we a Brazilian? Are, uh, we Latin American? Are we a global company? Because of course, for our employees and clients in Brazil, we want to sound American. And they want to feel that empowered for the Mexican one, they want to speak Spanish, uh, and they want to feel Latin America. For the Brazilian is where everything burn. So this is our home, et cetera. Uh, then from the German, they want to have their office.

Speaker A: They want to sound localized.

Speaker C: Exactly. But sometimes you can get lost on that travel because then you end up the core team not feeling as important because it is all over the world. And uh, sometimes all over the world cannot feel that. So localized.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker C: That you end up in middle gray area that absolutely no accountability, no ownership. And then you have like marketing teams or HR teams saying, oh, we are, uh, a global diverse company. And that end up being no one's company. But the concept of that you are bringing. We build for the nation as an Indian company. And is also this product how you balance these of going global but maintain your core values only India?

Speaker A: It's a great question. So we have a workforce about a million workforce. Right. One million people is understandable because of the size. I will maybe take a small, uh, example of a different company I used to work for in the US Called Red Hat. It's an operating system.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: I will not talk about exactly the nature of work. I have done something with Docker and all that that time when it was just getting started and uh, been part of the acquisition. But what I've seen is there were like 3,000 people. And when I left the company, it has 12,000 people. And IBM acquired it for $36 billion when I left. And I had a important part in that building the product. I mean, I was not part of the acquisition. I was learning stuff. And what I've learned, Santiago, is, uh, the culture is the most important piece. What culture you built yourself as a company and why. I'm using that as an example that there are different companies with their uniqueness. And this generation believe in genuinity. You want people to be genuine. Right. So I think you need to have your own identity as a company from where you're coming from instead of bring to localized. But as long as you know you are able to give importance to your customers and client in that market, I think it's our level. It is all about strategy and interest. I mean in that market, whichever market you are in. And I think the world is a Open place. Everybody speaks a common language. I call it a language of business, which is not a language of any, uh, nation. It's a language of business, which is pretty uniform, and it works. And if at a strategic level, if there is alignment, it works. And I have seen why I'm using that. This was a, uh. Red Hat was born in Raleigh in North Carolina. But when I started, I made my first exit as a founder. I did my first company after my college. I didn't want to work for anyone. I said, you know, I just built a company.

Speaker C: What was about that company?

Speaker A: It was a tech company, and they'd sell this to Pearson.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: And I ran it for five years and then joined Red Hat. And the first day I walk in, they were doing my onboarding, and it has a Mahatma Gandhi's picture.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I was like, what? This is a US Company. Are you guys serious? Or. I thought they're localizing it for me. Seriously. I mean, that was the, uh, example.

Speaker C: And sometimes you can feel even worse because then, like, is this a game? What is happening here?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it says, your voice matters, and it says meritocracy. So, see, both the things are very unique. So it talks about if you got the right merit and you can fight for yourself and this place is yours. Right. So every voice matters. And I was operating from Boston for about five, six years, and I could see, like, all kind of nationality. And the company has outgrown its number and was able to focus on India, Latam and all the other emerging markets. And that's why I wanted to give that example, though it's not from Tata Group. So I think that belief then started that if your culture is very strong, no matter where you come from, yes, of course, you still need to have the regional leaders and need somebody to build and share that narrative. I think that's very important, because who is going to, let's say, build, uh, pass this message to India if. As an example. So someone like Vetex. My assumption is you are a good technology platform. You do xyz. Similarly, other platforms are also doing similar things, but I think sharing the core is very important because people don't buy technology at this level. Technology is one part, but I think they're making a strategic investment. So do they understand that your culture they can work with? I think that is very important. So I would say culture is most important. And in that culture, I think I meant one thing earlier, that my boss or my chairman, you know, whom I report to in the board, he's the chairman Of Tata Group. He will not cut corners about asking of uh, so he will be like, you know, Suman though we put money on nonprofit, we need it now and yesterday. So naturally I think partnering with companies who also understand uh, what is the velocity and agility means it's very important because the market dynamics are constantly changing. These things I think matters. I mean end of the day and look, I mean people are sensible. I think having two localized. I'll ah, not take another company's name but I think you know that there's the largest uh, CRM company in the planet. They have done it localized. Uh, I'm sure around the world.

Speaker C: Yes, yes.

Speaker A: And not many is able to understand because once you move from product to just doing localization, people get it. I think people. I would leave it immediately. I would leave it there.

Speaker C: One question. It is not obvious for people to arrive to your position right now are ah, you agree. So it's a lot of Indians that will dream to have your life. You're able to travel, you're able to go to uk, United States. You are a founder now. You manage one of the biggest group in India and in the world. So you are a reference for these young talents in all over the world. But I think also for the Indians. Can you share some words for them? So advices to them, the ones that are trying to enter the university, that are trying to find a job, are trying to hustle and you already make it. You are there. Can you share something?

Speaker A: Again, it's a big question. I will try to share with full responsibility. I have to say, you know, I am fortunate and uh, lucky. I think like you rightly said, there are at least a billion plus Indians, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And I think I'm lucky and uh, to be here. Little bit of luck is definitely there. But I want to also pass this to all the young generation. I believe is luck is created. You have to make your own luck, right? So luck only comes to you when you believe and you are able to clearly understand your purpose. When I started the conversation I said this. Who you are is very important. The sooner you recognize you will be always working towards it. And it is not about a position at all or uh, it is not about being an executive of XYZ Group because you know, I have done it for now four or five companies. So my view is that once you are clear, uh, that and you know, clarity is kind. I think you would understand.

Speaker C: Now I know why you get a uh, bestsellers, bro. You have some, you know, sentences that are Full of knowledge that um, this

Speaker A: sentence, if I pick it up and I know I like to share this with the young people. I see a lot of generation, right? Young generation sometimes get very impatient about they want quick things very quickly. And what I've done learned is that once you stop chasing and start enjoying, things will come to you. So this clarity is kind. I worked for Cisco by the way for a bit as the director Chileaning and product for in Bay Area for a bit. And uh, one of my boss, he was getting retired and I will quote his name Mark. So Mark Snyder, when he hired me, he said, you know, I would want to work for you someday. I said, are you kidding? What is this?

Speaker C: What?

Speaker A: And then he said, because I learned that when you talk to people it's a lot of clarity over chaos. So I like to learn that. And when I retire I might um, join Mike Cisco, you know, as a consultant or something. And you will not believe it, during our tenure he actually worked for me seriously. So I never wanted him to work for me. I mean, but he ended up working for me and he actually taught me this sentence. Actually the credit goes to him. Clarity over chaos. And I turned this into clarity. His kindness. I think the young people really deserve that. If I have to build it in three tenant, don't be impatient. I think that's important have a clear purpose and you cannot get to the purpose immediately. You need to work on it. And then the third is probably you should start enjoying and stop chasing. I think these three is my tenants.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that is valuable advices for young talent, but also for myself. I love and for any professional founder around the world. Thank you so much for being here. Appreciate a lot, share your knowledge, your experience. We are going to have a blast. Hope that uh, we can work together. These 1 million of square feet that we have in the Expo. Sure, let's have fun, let's make some connection. And happy to have you here in our podcast.

Speaker A: Fortunate to be here. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Really appreciate him.

Speaker B: This episode of Bittax Live was brought to you by Bitex, the digital commerce

Speaker C: platform for bold leaders.

Speaker B: Head to bitex.com to see how we help businesses scale fast, flex smart and let the AI power future of commerce. If you like it, what you hear, follow the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. Because in this space, speed isn't uh, uh, a luxury, it is your edge.