#65: Building a startup that makes families happier, one story at a time | Talk with Ilya Novodvorskiy - Co-Founder @ Readmio

Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Opera sky podcast. My name is Ricardo Monegas and I will be your host on this podcast. We would like to share valuable knowledge, lessons learned and stories from entrepreneurs, investors and managers while running their businesses. We strive to ask, uh, the right questions and uh, discover insight from our guests so you can apply them in your business and life right after each episode. Thanks for joining us and let's get started. Hi everyone. Today we are talking with Ilya Nebodvorsky, maybe one of the hardest last name I have pronounced into this podcast. He's the co founder and head of Grove of Rhythmia and it's a, um, mobile application and solution bringing stories to life using sounds and using narrator's voice. It's interesting. And of course all the story of building a startup, uh, working in B2C, which Ilya, uh, told me is really easy. So we should be. Exactly. Um, and yeah, all the knowledge that these stories can have and maybe, of course I can have some maybe questions about, yeah, do we really want to give them a mobile phone to kids like really early or stuff like that. But that's, that's another story because we, I actually even personally we do it now for our kids and it's like, oh, it shouldn't be television, but they are doing it or a mobile phone. So welcome Ilya. Sorry to bother you with my stories, but yeah, so fun for now. Uh, um, yeah, how is everything? And maybe I said that the first question was something like, yeah, what makes you proud of today based on what you have spent your time today?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, thank you. It's great to be on, um, great to be chatting with you. Definitely B2C is not easy, so I will definitely, definitely, um, make sure I correct you on that. Ah, but actually if I had to say, the thing that makes me most proud today is related to readmeo. Um, we've been having a really, really nice quarter, um, after many years of, uh, you know, difficulties and struggles, of course, growth. But, um, actually the last two quarters haven't been our best yet. So, uh, we actually went out drinking last night with the co founders celebrating. So I would say I'm on a high, even though a lot of the times I'm on a low, if you know what I mean.

Speaker A: Yeah, the roller coaster of startups. I, uh, think before we started recording we were talking, yeah, why are we doing this? And you were making fun of that, of course. So I can notice that now I know what you were doing because you were planning this, uh, going out and drinking with Your friends. That was the main reason. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Good, good. I hope your investors don't are hitting us today, but I'm just kidding.

Speaker B: No, investors are finally happy. Things are moving forward much faster. Um, so now's a good time. Now's a good time. They can tune into the podcast, no problem.

Speaker A: Good, good. Um, yeah, I didn't mention in the intro that you have been working in different type of companies, selling also services for startups and corporates and as director of sales for a highly known company in the Czech Republic and I think San Francisco as well. Strv. And also was, uh, revenue officer towards in loop that later was bought by Avast. And. And of course you have been mentoring startups and helping on growth, branding strategy, sales and so on. Uh, so yeah, so I think we will try to cover a bit of each stages of your life and your experiences because it will be helpful for, for this entrepreneurs that are listening to us. And of course we will also add a bit of fun and a bit of sarcasm as well, because it's not. It will be boring to do just a conversation like question number one. Tell me this. Or stuff like that. So, um, yeah, so I want to maybe start with. Yeah, what you said you are from New York. So. Well, what was. What brings you to the Czech Republic first?

Speaker B: And can't you tell from my American name that I'm a native New Yorker?

Speaker A: I didn't know that. Right. So it's my fault.

Speaker B: My God, I'm joking. Yeah. M. My whole background is so complicated because I was actually born in Moscow, but when I was three years old, I moved to New York. I grew up in New York City. And then about 10, 11 years ago, I moved to Czech Republic. Uh, and so for a lot of people, they actually think I'm Czech based on the name. And then they meet me and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And actually it was a funny story when I was working at STRV and we had clients in San Francisco and it was me talking to him and we had another, uh, like a developer there, but he was from Macedonia I think. And so we're all speaking English and he's like, don't worry guys, if you need to, you can both speak. Speak Czech to figure it out before we look at each other. We're like, neither of us speaks, so.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, that's going to be getting harder and harder to distinguish nationalities of people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: As we grow. Yeah.

Speaker B: So, you know, globalized people are moving back and forth. I mean, um, I don't know how long I'll stay in Czech Republic, but so far I love it. You know, it's, it's a great place to be and so far I've had uh, actually really great business experience here as well. So happy to talk more about that.

Speaker A: Great, great. I think you told me you were here two years and you are now 10. So how does it looks like you love it here or you have other reasons. But yeah, we are not going to go in deep into that. But um, then, um, yeah, can you tell us a bit about ReadMeo, how this started? Because of course it's not that you starting doing that from 10 years ago or whatever you were, um, is not that recent. Right.

Speaker B: But relatively new. But you know, time goes really fast. It's now been over five years, which is crazy. Um, so, uh, yeah, that is crazy every time I think about it. Um, but yeah, how we started readme. Well, you mentioned strv. I think a lot of people know them. They're the mobile app development agency in Prague. In Loop was their like, um, like, like very similar company but not in Czech Republic, in Slovakia. So like similar sizes. At the time they were both about 150 people, both focused on mobile and web apps, both working with Silicon Valley startups and local banks and corporates. Um, so I had this, a lot of experience building mobile apps, working with founders to build their MVPs. Um, at STRV specifically we worked a lot with uh, top Silicon Valley startups In Loop. It was the same thing. So, uh, after I joined In Loop, um, we were acquired by Avast, as you mentioned. And so this was my first like real corporate experience. Um, it was interesting but very different. And I realized hey, like for me, I love building startups, I love building something of my own. And I was lucky enough that actually one of the previous co founders of In Loop, his name is Joseph Shimco. Um, he was also. We were both leaving Avast and we've been talking together, we've worked together obviously In Loop for a long time, really great relationship and we were just talking about ideas and in general wanted to do something together. Um, and that's when we realized, hey, you know, we've been building apps for a long time, we want to do that. I was having kids at the time, so kids were on my mind. Uh, Josef has four kids, so I think kids are always on his. And in general the co founders, like the people that we bringing together, everyone had kids and we realized childhood early education, super important to us. I love kids, B2C apps. You know, there's something there. Um, and we wanted to bring the latest technology into it. And it was really Joseph who was, I think, reading to his kids one night and like falling asleep while reading and thinking, there must be a better way. Um, and like the idea was born there where, you know, hey, let's take the newest technology, voice recognition, uh, let's take what we know, you know, be building mobile apps. Let's put it together. And that was the initial idea of ReadMeo. Kind of how can we create a bonding experience between parent and child in this educational and nice way? Um, and actually we're very different than most, like apps for kids. We're really not a game. And ironically, even though we're an app, we're really, I wouldn't say anti screen time, but really cautious with the screen time. Um, and the whole experience is very different in ReadMeo than most apps for children. In fact, actually ReadMeo is not really an app for children. If you think about it, it's really an app for parents.

Speaker A: It's like a tool for the parents. Right?

Speaker B: Tool for the parents. Exactly. And although kids are using it, of course, it's something you use together most of the time. And there's not like this, as we say, like dopamine factory, like YouTube shorts or these things, flashing lights and all this craziness. It's really about bonding or the story. And like this, you know, we almost, we call it edutainment, like educational entertainment and Ah, so that's how the idea was born. And then of course it grew and grew.

Speaker A: Uh, so can you tell us a bit about those early, early times of the application? Right, like. Or I know that of course you were having experience thanks to STRV and In Loop already and a lot of experience maybe under your belt, let's say. But uh, yeah, but maybe you are a product manager or it was more like sales related for you in that moment or. Yeah. Can you tell us a bit? Yeah. How did you establish that relationship with your co founder and maybe other team members that you tried to put together based on the knowledge that you have from these big agencies. So maybe that was really helpful, of course, for you to know how to start doing it.

Speaker B: It was super helpful. It was super helpful because, you know, like director of sales at In Loop or like head of sales at in, uh, strv. You know, what you're doing. Really, it was, you know, we. It was not transactional sales, it was consultative sales. So consulting people on like, what's the best way to build an mvp. And over the years I had really learned about a lot about building not just mobile apps, but building products in general. And um, so that experience definitely came in handy. Understanding the user is the user experience like um, working at S Turvy and In Loop really gave me a great understanding of the fundamentals of running a product based business. Um, and so all those things really helped. But of course um, we still did a lot of mistakes. We still did a lot of things that I probably wouldn't recommend other people to do. Uh, but in general it definitely gave me a really solid base of uh, you know, from the product perspective to the design to the growth and things like that. And of course I was really lucky to have that network of people that we could pull on. So for example, in In Loop when we first started, I think everyone on the team was ex In Loop people or ex people that we knew through In Loop and everyone was in our local network. Even now the majority of the team is still people from our local networks. Um, and it's honestly always so much easier to hire people into your team who are from your network who you know and trust and have worked together than it is to having new people. I mean, for me it's crazy that some co founders have never worked together and start businesses together. I mean I see that it works but for me that's like the biggest risk of all. So it was really nice that when we started ReadMeo, all the co founders, we've worked together for many years together and you know, we didn't have too many of these interpersonal like the team like issues that always come up with any team. But here it's like a lot of that has already been uh, figured out from years of working together at In Loop. Um, and so yeah, that was the initial team was just people that we knew, um, and really trying to build that initial MVP and get it out to the market.

Speaker A: Got it. Yeah. That's interesting insight as well. That is recommended to bring to the table people that you already work before and that you are already comfortable, which is quite common sense. But of course it's not something we all do, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: But it's also you like there's so many, especially because we're a fully remote company. I think so many misunderstandings can happen even through Slack or you know, communication. So it's really nice that we kind of got to skip that part that like warming up to each other. It was like we were really warm. We were like, let's get down to business. So it definitely helped.

Speaker A: Great, Great. And what were. Maybe if you can remember, of course, of those five years, I assume everything has been sailing smoothly and everything is perfect. Right. So I just wonder if there was some house, some rock on the road or something. Something small or. Yeah, or. There was big challenges.

Speaker B: I think it was all rocks. It was always. No, there's, there's, you know, there are some really, really nice moments that really like these really big highs. But, um, you know, we talk about it with the founders all the time. That day to day, you really. It's easy to get depressed, like, looking at the numbers, because day to day, things don't change so dramatically. And it is very difficult, like, especially for founders mentally. Um, but then looking back, you're like, wow, you know, every year we're like doubling, tripling in size. You know, I remember, you know, now we're looking and there's only like, couple thousand downloads per day. We're like, oh, uh, we really want to get to 10,000 downloads per day. But I remember days when we started and it was like 10, 20 downloads per day and we were like, oh, 20 downloads, you know, So I think that's the biggest challenge for founders is having that resilience of being able to continue pushing when things, you know, aren't working. Because there's so many, I don't even know if it's the right way to call it failures, but things just don't work. You're trying and like, you put a lot of energy into it and it doesn't bring the, the promised, like the things that you expected. Um, and that is 90% of the time, right? Like 99% of the time, you don't get the outcome. But when you finally do, then, like, you've made it, you're growing. So, you know, infinite challenges, I would say a lot of challenges focused on growth. I think B2C growth is especially difficult, but also there it's so much more clear. You know, if you make a product that's not so good, you know, people kind of use it. You don't always know, like, what features don't specifically work. But with growth, growth, it's so obvious. Like performance marketing, you put in €10,000. If you didn't get, you know, €20,000 back or more than 10,000, at least, then it's clearly failed. So, um, growth is very challenging for B2C and a lot of challenges there. Uh, but in general, you know, it's. It's just everything around running a business, it's very challenging.

Speaker A: Got It. Yeah, thanks. So you mentioned the word challenges. I was counting around 10 times. So yeah, so, yeah, so it sounds really challenging challenges, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna bring negativity to people. But, um. Because at the end of the day, of course we all face challenges and we need to try to, to, to face them and remove it. So I was wondering, because I know, of course you were. Have you guys were having kids or in those moments, right? Really, baby, in those moments. Um, I was wondering, what was the mindset for you? Like, do you. Because I sometimes see other startup founders mentoring or, or yeah, or just meeting people in an event and their mindset is okay, how I will make money as fast as possible or, or yeah, and stuff like that. Right. So, um, yeah, or even the mindset that they had never been in part of an industry, but they want to solve a problem there and then they believe that as a complete list outsider, they will be able to make it somehow. It doesn't mean that there is no outliers and maybe some people can do it. Right. But it's like my question here is, what do you consider a recommended mindset when you decide to start a, uh, startup in this case? But, um, from the point of view of the long term, did you see yourself doing this all your life or did you see yourself doing this two years and then magically you will have success or stuff like that? Right.

Speaker B: I mean, I guess, you know, we all assume that, oh, you know, we're going to be millionaires in three years, but, uh, it doesn't work like that. I think the real, if you had to pick one characteristic and um, we were just talking last night about it with my co founders. It's really this resilience and continuing to push and when things get hard, you continue to push and having that mindset. Like I was just talking to a friend and they were like, so don't you think about readmeal failing and what to do? And you know, I was like, not really, you know, because there's like, of course sometimes you have negative emotions, negative ideas, nothing is working. But I never think about, oh, readme will fail. I think more about, hey, this failed, what should I do next? What's the, what's the thing to do to make it successful? And I think it's really important to have that resilience with all the co founders on that team and uh, the team in general to have that mindset. And I think I'm really lucky to have co founders. We work together, we Trust each other. And there's been many times when you know one co founder needs to take a break or like you said like they have a baby and they need some couple of months to like organize whatever big change they have in their life or someone is like, you know, has uh, something personal going on. So we're always there to step in and help and balance it and say hey, I can't right now. But I like we have that trust uh, and that really helps with those co founders, uh, with my co founders specifically is that we have that trust and we can really help each other carry that work. But I think at the end of the day the one thing you have to think about when starting a business is it's going to be difficult. You know I think a lot, I see a lot of people who have this excitement and motivation uh, but that will might pass. You know, like it's like if you want to be um, disciplined, it's not about you know, having motivation to go, it's going when you don't have the motivation. And I think it's the same thing with the startup. Uh, we've been through some really difficult times with like you know, money close to running out, not paying ourselves salary, things uh, not working. But at the end of the day we always push, push, push and we found the solutions. And I think in general that's what they say about startups, right? They don't, startups don't fail because the idea is bad. Startups fail because either they run out of money, um, and they don't have the resource to keep trying or the founders give up. So eventually everyone will find the way. Yes, it may take a lot of pivoting, might take a lot of learning, but with resilience you can definitely make it work.

Speaker A: Exactly. Um, can you tell us a bit, um, just to reflect into those fuck ups or challenges that you say. So can you remember maybe one who was the one that you said well this is it or something like that. Like you said well till here we are and maybe tell us what happened that ah, this didn't happen and you are still here.

Speaker B: Sure. Um, well I would say our biggest challenge was uh, close to when we were, we were already growing quite well. Uh, we had some offers from investors like term sheets even and we were kind of like on a high. We were like oh we're going to raise a lot of money. Um, and things were I would say progressing well growth wise. Uh, and so we were a little bit delaying because we wanted better terms, etc. Um, and then it was around the time that the war in Ukraine started and things started changing. Um, and at that time we still weren't like no one knew, right, what was going to happen with the economy, what was going to happen with the VC world as well. Like right at that time, it's when things started getting much colder in the VC world with a lot harder to get, um, investments. And also with the marketing on our side, uh, we were thinking we're like on top of the world. And we're like, let's expand. We said let's expand to the uk, let's expand to other places. Um, and of course like the, the VCs were also starting to get worried, uh, in general about investments. Uh, so we had this opportunity to raise investments quickly. We were delaying it because we were on top of the world. And then it so happened that, oh, this VC said no band. Our expansion to the UK didn't go as amazing as we had planned because we had already seen, oh, Czech Republic, Slovakia, it's going so well. But they're, you know, naturally, as now I understand expansions take time, they're much slower. So the things that we were telling the investors didn't exactly pan out. And um, some investors kind of like pulled their term sheets and so it was really difficult time. We were running out of money. Uh, you know, some of us stopped taking salaries and for several months we were really kind of, I would say scrambling, uh, because, you know, the one, you know, investor kind of fell through that we thought was going to, um, and we were trying to find, you know, it was kind of many things happen at the same time. We thought we had an investment, it kind of fell through. So we were running out of money. We had some growth strategies that we thought would pan out faster than they did. Um, and so we were kind of losing money there as well. So obviously everything focused around the money. But you know, when money runs on the startup, it's really tied to a lot of things. Investment growth, salaries of employees. So that was a really difficult time for us. You know, we even had to let like, I think two people go just because of salary things. Um, but eventually after a couple of months, you know, we did raise the money. Uh, things in UK and in general a global expansion actually started going really well. Um, and we were able to, you know, hire people back and things like that. So things they did pan out. But I think it was having that resilience from, especially from the co founder side, um, and pushing through those. I think it was maybe Three to five months of really not knowing, like, will we have the money? How are we going to continue, uh, really pushing through that help? Because we didn't give up. We started going back to other investors, starting going back to our connections and doubling down, if anything.

Speaker A: Mhm. Got it, got it. And how was your way to sell this? I know that you said resilience, but maybe there was other lessons out of that that maybe you reflected yesterday with a couple of beers, uh, in that bar or restaurant. Right. So can you tell us a bit?

Speaker B: Yeah, it was a lot of things. It was tied to number one, like investors, like, uh, how to approach investors, you know, because of course they want to be cautious, um, but we want to move things quickly. So, you know, from the investor side we learned that, hey, you know, you need to pick like the three, four months when you're raising and really try to squeeze all the investment work into there. Talk to the investors at the same time, try to get the term sheets at the same time. Because, you know, we were kind of raising, so we had a term sheet, but we wanted to talk to this investor. We were taking our time. And I think like one of my friends who's a VC investor, he said, listen, time kills deals because the longer you give investors, the more opportunities they have to find issues, the more, you know, because a lot of vc, it's the excitement, right, of investing into something new. And once you give someone three to four months, you know, no team is perfect, no company is perfect. They're always going to start finding things. It's not new and exciting anymore. There's a new deal now that's exciting for them. So it just. One of our learnings was specifically with VCs, you know, when you're trying to get an investment, focus on that time period to trust as many investors as possible, get the term sheets and try to close the deal quickly, not only because you want the investor excited, but also we spent months on VC stuff that could have been spent on making the company work better. And probably that was also tied to why our initial expansion to the UK wasn't as amazing as we'd hoped. You know, we spent so much time with investors and presentations, preparing due diligence that we couldn't focus so much time on the expansion. So, um, yeah, I would say one of the best learnings was, hey, raise from investors at the key moment and try to keep it as short as possible. That whole process.

Speaker A: Got it. And what would be your recommendation towards what does it mean, short as possible? It's like, well, of course I know it's difficult to generalize, but I don't know, you just think is two months is, is a reasonable uh, time or, or something around those lines.

Speaker B: Depends, you know, it really depends where your company's at and the stage you're at. But for example, we just closed around in December and they were telling us it's the fastest they've ever closed a deal. I think it was like uh, for example from term sheet it was I think three to four weeks before we had like the money on our account. So due diligence, very fast. And we had only met the investor about a month or two ago. So three months is the perfect timeline. I mean this one was a little different because we weren't even raising at the time. But in general, if you do decide, hey, this investor, I'm interested, try to keep that pace up, try to push them to um, sign it as soon as possible. Because also as a startup you don't want to be wasting your time on talking to investors because that's time that you're not really going to get back. You'd rather put it into the continued growth of the company.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Uh, I was wondering. So we already mentioned B2C is challenging. Um, um, but again I don't want to focus on the negative and maybe now let's talk about the positive. So do you have any specific advice to people that are starting that journey in B2C? And yeah, ah, what, what is your recommendation? How to start and to analyze. Yeah, tactics or some tips and tricks or something around those lines?

Speaker B: I would say there's two reasons that it's challenging. Well number one, for startups it's challenging because at the moment only like 30% of VC investors invest in B2C so the vast majority invest in B2B. Um, and that makes it a little bit challenging because you just have less options. Mhm. However, this can also be like a benefit because there's probably not as many B2C startups. Um, you can really find specific B2C investors and really kind of like focus in on them. Uh, but it is a challenge because you can't just go to these random events where there's a ton of investors and talk to all of them because majority of them won't be really interested. So that's from the investor side but from the, from the uh, business growing side, you know, there's also some positives I think. I personally feel like we make a much bigger impact as readmeal, you know, doing something for Children doing something for real people. Um, you know, with B2B, it was, you know, in loop and strv, it was nice. I really cared about what we did, but it's a much smaller impact. You know, you're. It's harder to care about that product, you know, than it is about, you know, parents reading to kids. And a lot of these B2C products, I feel like it's easier to have that personal and emotional attachment to, at least for me. Like, I've never cared about anything as much as I care about ReadMe. And I've never been more proud to be a part of a company that I am, uh, for readme. So I think that B2C also makes it quite nice because, you know, people kind of know the company. Uh, a lot of the people in Czech Republic, when I say where I work, they kind of recognize it and they have very positive, uh, emotions toward it.

Speaker A: Got it, got it. And what is your start to. Let's say I will decide today I will run a B2C startup and maybe a product. Right. So what is your recommendation to where the process into how to bring people to use the app and ideally, of course, retain them as much as possible. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, actually, when we started ReadMeo for the first, I think maybe five to six months, it was completely free. So we launched it and we tried to create some buzz around it, and I think it worked. You know, I think in the first couple of months, we got our first 50,000 downloads. People tried it, it was free. So there was some press about it, so some bloggers wrote. So it definitely helped. It really depends on what you're building, right? I mean, something can't be free. Um, but, you know, for us, it was trying to create that initial buzz, and thankfully it worked out. It was also challenges later on because if you give something for someone for free, and then later you're like, start introducing payments and things, people are like, well, I thought this was free. But honestly, B to C, like, people will get upset about everything. So. So you just have to try to minimize people getting upset. But, you know, at the end of the day, people will find a reason to get upset if they want it. So I would say try. If you're doing a B2C, try to get some initial buzz around it, try to, um, kind of launch it in a way where, you know, try to get some PR around it, some influencers, things like that. And it really helps to get those initial numbers because that's what you're trying to do, especially when you're trying to show that to investors

Speaker A: and if you need to, let's say travel back in time and you, you would do something different in that strategy at the beginning or something because thanks to the knowledge that you have now and yeah. Ah. What are your thoughts into that comment?

Speaker B: I would do a lot of things differently, like about very specific, like campaigns or specific. Maybe some influencers that didn't work. But in general I think it was a good strategy that we had to offer it for free. I mean still there's a lot of stories for free at ReadMe because we're also trying to do like something nice for people. There's a free story of the day so everyone can download the app for free and try a story for free daily. So that is another benefit that we do and we still have that kind of, that memory of the free app and that kind of uh, idea there because, you know, our motto is, you know, a story for every child in the world. And that's why we try to offer something for free to people as well. Because we do believe we're trying to do a good thing. We are trying to make an impact in the world. It's not just about money. So that specific strategy works, worked uh, for us. Uh, but there were definitely a lot of things that we learned throughout the way like how to do performance marketing, what type of influencers work, how to make those deals with influencers, what kind of PR works, you know, and it's hard to even explain to someone what those tips are. Um, it really comes from trial and error.

Speaker A: When you mean pr, what type of specific ideas. Maybe you have seen work the most for at least you. Right. I don't think this will apply to everyone. Right. For sure. But it's like you as read me m what has been that you are. Well, I ain't even surprised. This work is nice. It's great. I uh, am doing a great job ahead of growth or something like that. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. I would say the free PR is always like usually performs even better than paid pr. Like we basically stop and I mean this like it's not like with PR agencies with like going to some kind of publication and trying to get. Because it's super expensive to get in the good placement. And if it's just some kind of paid PR somewhere, an article, I don't know for us it's just never really worked. But what has worked is when you do have something interesting and you do get that to the, the right publication and they actually are have that excitement and they Write a nice article about you. Those have performed the best. Where I was like oh wow. I just sent like a cold email to some publication and they were like oh, this is interesting. And then they write a feature for us and it gets a couple thousand downloads. Um, that was always the most exciting. And what I learned is that um, it's really important to be able to convey your story, your passion and this excitement to not only journalists, but people in general and then they believe it. For example, every influencer who I talked to personally and got them excited about the product and understand my dream and our vision, they always perform much better. Same with journalists than those who you just a influencer. Can you promote it? You know who puts a story or she. And uh, it doesn't really perform.

Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's amazing. Right. So you mentioned this attitude of confidence and transmitting that excitement is part of the game and it's not to fake it. Maybe because you are passionate about that. I can see it while you're.

Speaker B: It's about being able to tell your story and uh, I think for us it's a little bit easier. As I was saying, you know, because everyone was a kid, everyone understands the, you know, the benefits of reading to children. So that's another what I love about readmeo. But in general, you know what is even pitching to investors, it's all about being able to tell your story to them and get them emotionally invested in what you're doing.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. It's something that we kind of under appreciate that we are all unique and uh, that's actually your unfair advantage. I think there is a book called like that and that is actually we should take that into account. Right. Like but sometimes we try to hide it or whatever. Right. And I've been guilty of that as well because for example I moved to the check report public and I didn't want to move to a place where I was uh, speaking Spanish for example because I wanted to try something different. Right. But at the same time I value so much that I was born in this country and everything. Even that there are challenges and everything and it's not the best place right now to live locally sadly. But yeah, but I still proud of that. So actually there is some comedian videos that they are saying that uh, that love and hate relationship with the country right now because of the shitty situation and it's quite interesting to, to experience.

Speaker B: Right, I understand. But yeah, I think it's true what you're saying. Like your experiences are unique to you and that because of that you that's another thing that, like, um, you know, I, I pitch to a lot, like I do a lot of pitch competitions, I pitched a lot of investors and people ask me, hey, what are your tips? Like how can you, like how can someone pitch better? So when I was mentoring people, they would ask that and I would say, hey, the way I pitch is not the way that you should pitch. Everyone should use their own, uh, like their own character. And like, even in sales when I had sales reps, I was like, the way I sell should not be the way you sell because that would not be genuine. You know, the way I talk, I get people excited because I'm excited. But maybe you're not that kind of person. Maybe your sales is not about, you know, getting the person excited, but about being a, ah, very knowledgeable and having all the facts and really convincing them from that. So you have to find the way like pitching or storytelling or even selling, you have to find your way that matches your personality, that comes off as genuine and then you're really using your unfair advantage to kind of um, achieve your goals.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of um, the idea of self awareness. I think maybe one of your friends from New York, uh, Gary B. I think maybe you know him, I think maybe you have heard of him. So yeah, maybe even yourself remind me of Gary B. Because of the way you, you're not saying too much fuck but

Speaker B: drink wine.

Speaker A: Ah, that was yesterday, maybe that you were.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah,

Speaker A: Good, good. Now I was wondering, so you have uh, in your, at least in Android you have around 400,000 or even 500,000 downloads. And I was wondering where is the most people using this app for you that maybe you can describe it a bit and how did you decide where to focus? Right. Because I have a story that maybe is related and I will just tell it, uh, that I see fail one startup because the founder was too focused on the feedback and even hit her emotionally just to hear the feedback. But it was like a random feedback of a person because let's say we were doing the application, it was the MVP and it was in English of course, and we were targeting people or companies with English, in this case was E commerce. But then suddenly an Italian start talking bullshit that the stuff is not in Italian, this is a shitty application. And for some reason that was a problem for the founder, which you need to have this maybe thick skin, I don't know. And it was a problem. And then it was like, well, we don't care about that. We are focusing on um, our market who speak English and have website in English. So forget about the rest for now. Maybe in the future we will have Italian, Spanish or whatever. Right. Um, and yeah, but this is something about that resilience you mentioned. Right, but okay, coming back to my question was. Yeah. Where you have seen the most resection of your app and maybe you can tell us a bit about that and how has this influenced maybe your product roadmap and your plans? Because of course you as a founder have some ideas, but suddenly the audience and the people say something different or act differently. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, actually, I think you have a great point. Uh, because you get feedback from a lot of different people and sometimes, you know, you get feedback from paying customers and they're like, oh, I want this and this. And I say, well, you know, should we prioritize that they're already paying or is it the new customers who aren't paying? Um, and so there is a lot of feedback. It's hard to go through it as you know, also people complain about a lot of things. You know, people complain that the app is free. I mean, it paid. So like they say, oh, only like 20 stories are free. Well, you know, we do need to run a business, so it's really hard. And I think, yeah, you need to have thick skin. You need to be able to evaluate is this genuine? Is it not? Is it just the loudest person in the room? Is it really the, um, the majority, do they really feel that way? And it's hard in a startup, especially in B2C where you can't really talk to everyone. With B2B you have face to face conversations. They tell you exactly, you can ask questions. It's great. In B2C, it's really hard to talk to customers because a lot of the times, you know, hey, do you want to, you know, I'll give you $10 to talk to me. Most people don't have time for it. They don't want to. And it's also, you know, the bias, right, the people who will talk to you. It's only a certain type of audience. So it is really difficult in B2C to get that feedback. But coming back to your question about where the audiences are, you know, we launched in Czech Republic and Slovakia, so the majority has been, uh, historically there. And still Czech Republic is the biggest. But it's less than 40% now because we've expanded internationally. We're now in eight languages. We're, uh, looking to add four more this year. Um, so the app is global now and actually, uh, Brazil is our second biggest market, and it's almost as big as Czech Republic. So we've got over 200,000 users in Brazil, um, and I think over 250,000 in Czech Republic. So we are really expanding quickly internationally. You know, the biggest markets are Czech, Brazil, Poland, U.S. germany, and UK great

Speaker A: random question as a user is like, uh, are you able that. Let's say I download the app right now, my phone is in English, but I can't switch it to Spanish just to say something, because Is that possible or.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's actually, you know, funny. Uh, enough people, we. We got a lot of feedback from users, as we mentioned, that some of them use it for language learning. So we have all these different options. We were like, oh, really? Okay, let's make it easier for people to change languages. So before, you know, it's kind of hidden in the settings because we're like, who's changing languages all the time? But now every single story has the different languages. So you can, for example, your whole phone set up is in English. So the, um, uh, like, the interface is in English. So, like, homepage is in English, library is in English. But then the stories, you can really easily switch from all the English story. Oh, I want the Spanish version now. Oh, I want the, um, Czech version or whatever it is. So we make it super easy for people to switch in between those languages.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you get that request from the kids, maybe, because it's funny, because my son, sometimes he. He says that I want to see this comet and in Czech or sometimes in English, and he's like, yeah, okay. And I am, like, trying to push him to learn English, and he's telling me, check. And he's like, okay, check. Okay.

Speaker B: My kids, it's the same. But actually, that's exactly what we think about when we write. The story is in Readmeal to make like it's very similar so kids can learn languages. And my kids, first they listen to it, like in English, and then they're like, oh, no, I want it in Czech now. So they kind of can connect the word. So I think it does. Like, we're thinking about investing even more into this kind of language learning because we see people really like it, this different approach to learning languages. And we have a lot of bilingual people, bilingual families using retail.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, I. Every time, um, right now, I am more regretting more and more that I didn't invest in you guys when we start talking, because I was, uh, trying to do some angel investing in those moments. So I was why we didn't organize the meeting in Holesovic. Good, but okay. For sure. I wish you all the success. So that's great. That's great. So thank you for doing this work as well. Right. Um, I will maybe switch gears a lot because right now we have been focused a lot in B2C and of course, the story and everything. But I want to know a bit more about your experience also with B2B, since, of course, we also have audience who are building B2B. And maybe that's, as you mentioned, as well, a big market. Right. Um, what do you see as the main difference between B2C and, um, B2B, since you have been part of, let's say, the two words out there? Maybe. Of course, there is maybe government collaborations or other stuff. Right. But, yeah, can you tell us a bit? I think in the big picture, the differences from your sales perspective and even growth perspective. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I would say. And maybe this is because I have a big background in sales and growth, but really, sales is one of the biggest differences because, you know, when you have product in B2C and you have product in B2B, it's still similar cycle, similar product, um, mindset. But with, uh, sales, it's extremely difficult. I mean, you really kind of don't even have sales in B2C. Right. It's more marketing because you're never really m. You know, I wouldn't really call it, like, sales. I mean, anything. It's growth and marketing. And in B2B, it's more sales and maybe some marketing as well, depending on what you're doing. Um, so I would say that's the biggest difference. Uh, we are starting to do some B2B in README out now, so it's bringing back a lot of memories. And a lot of my experience is coming up because we're doing some selling to partners, maybe to schools. But it really is enjoyable to me because it brings back those days at STRV and in Luke where I got to do this consultative sales where you're more like a consultant, um, and you're really trying to find the solution and be creative. And that was always my favorite part about B2B sales, because I also did transactional sales. You know, usually it's more for, like, small medium businesses, and that's less exciting for me because I think after about six months, you're like, a pro. You're just like, oh, I need to do my 50 calls. And it's the same thing, you know? Uh, but with companies like strv in loop or even now at repo. When I'm doing that B2B, that's my personal favorite because you're really get those creative juices flowing. Every call is very unique. It's very different. You're not just trying to do like some quick transaction. You're really trying to understand the problem, think of the solution, use your expertise to consult them on the best things to do and how you can help them. Uh, and I think that was the biggest difference, uh, running a B2B than a B2C is, um, you get that opportunity to talk to the client and really, uh, convince them. You have, you know, in B2C you have five seconds on Facebook for them to see your ad before they Click Skip or YouTube. You know, you really need to convey the message instantly. There's no time to really tell that story in a, in a long, uh, way. Whereas in B2B you always have that face to face time with people. I really love that. Enjoy that. Um, of course there's different types of B2B companies. Uh, I have, my preference is where there's a little bit more transactional selling because also there's. Sorry, my favorite is the consultative because there, there's more emotion. And I actually think that a lot of sales, uh, most sales is done very highly on emotion. Um, if you think about STRV specifically or in loop, they're selling services, right. And there it really comes down to trust and emotion. The kind of trust and emotion you can convey. Because, you know, with a service it's like, you know, what can you say? We're the best. Every company says that, you know, uh, where, you know, we won some award. It's, it's really, you can't really show any specific things when it's a service like, hey, we offer development, design. Yes, you can show some examples. But um, at the end of the day, what you're really selling is the trust in your company and in yourself that you will deliver a good job.

Speaker A: Yeah. I personally, when I see companies saying we are the best or we are aware winning or something like that, and then I, yeah, so I was like, okay, yeah, I don't want to work with you already. So it's like, interesting. Like yeah, the approach. But I don't know, maybe it's me or you, I don't know. We are special specimens. I don't know.

Speaker B: But maybe works on some people. But at the end of the day, you know, if you're talking to two people, you're gonna like that personal connection. That you have with one and they gain your trust, you're probably going to go with them. And so I'm all about, in sales, it's all about building that trust. And I think that specifically in B2B sales people, you know, uh, are much more likely to go with a salesperson that they trust than like a product that maybe, oh, they won some award that I've never heard of. Most likely.

Speaker A: Exactly. And I was wondering, uh, like you, you have mentioned of course multiple times that it's harder to communicate with users in B2C, but I assume you still some processes about user research or something, right? So can you tell us a bit about that? And later we will move more towards B2B. But I forgot to ask this.

Speaker B: Uh, sure, yeah. I mean from the very beginning, you know, we try to talk to as many people who are relevant audience and of course sometimes it has to be like paid. So we would conduct like paid research. As you get a little bit bigger, it's nice. Like we actually even created our own like private Facebook group where we would invite like, you know, um, heavy users to give some feedback, even initial testers. Uh, so there are ways, of course. Even I remember in app we said, hey, we would love to get your feedback and people do give it, which is nice. Of course it's always skewed a little like you really want that feedback from the person who left that one star review, but they don't want to talk to you. So those are always the hardest. Um, but we do, we try to reach out to every single review, positive or negative, try to get feedback, try to, you know, first of all change that review to a positive one. Of course, if we can. But uh, more importantly, just try to understand, hey, what was went wrong. We want to, we really truly want to learn and want to improve. Um, so that is the challenge. But we try to be creative in ways even paying or asking inside the app or applying to reviews every email we respond to. So things like that.

Speaker A: Got it, got it. And um, is there any framework or any mindset that you advise people to do while doing those interviews or those interactions, even in a written way? Because I assume that is not that you went there. It's like, what, yeah, would you use this app or. Yeah. Or do you like this? Because I think those are leading questions or stuff like that. Is there any.

Speaker B: I think you need to be super careful because it's so easy to have a leading question. Um, it's so easy to influence them. Um, you know, how people are like most People don't want, like, why would they be confrontational? You know, most people would rather it's easier. Some random guy, I just want my $10. Like, it's really hard to get honest opinions from people because they have no incentive to be honest. They just want to have, like an easy experience. So, um, it is very difficult. There's a whole art to it, I think, uh, I've noticed that when we are not doing the video call, it's a little bit easier for people to be upfront. Sometimes sending them a questionnaire beforehand or just a questionnaire, uh, because it'd be incredible, uh, like what people, uh, will say when you lead them towards a specific direction, you know, so you need to be super careful. I think really you need to have very experienced people doing this. And we're lucky that one of our co founders had that experience. So we've gotten some really great insight and being able to do it in a way where we really can get, uh, really insightful feedback and not just feedback that they're saying to please you.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. As you mentioned, art. Ah. And I think it's more like just if I need to summarize that in a word, maybe curiosity that you need to be. Well, you need to be like a kid maybe, right? That is like, and why and why. But maybe not in the. In annoying ways, for sure.

Speaker B: But yeah, because even, you know, I would talk to people and I would be, oh, you know, I think we were talking about the name. Oh, yeah, we had a big discussion. We had a big. A long time ago when we were just starting when we were pick, choosing the name for readmeo, um, and the logo. I would send it to people and uh, even the website, I think, and I would send it to people and say, hey, do you understand what the company does? They're like, yeah, absolutely. I'm a parent. So I immediately understood what the app does. And I was like, oh, great, can you just like, explain it to me? And they would say completely. Something like, oh, you guys do audiobooks from famous books. And you guys, you know, it'd be something like completely, like completely missing the main thing with the voice recognition and our own stories and educational approach. So it's also careful how you ask the questions and try. You know, I never tried to make them feel bad. I'm m. Like, okay, interesting. And what about like, this side? So, yeah, it's really about having. Asking the questions correctly, having the right curiosity. Not annoying, but very kind of guiding them to be truthful.

Speaker A: Got it. Um, now, since I will move now towards the B2B part. And um. Yeah. So can you tell us some lessons out of all that rich experience with STRV and In Loop? Like if. Because of course not everyone have the 200 teams. Right? Uh, people's team and so on. Like, imagine you are right now sitting in the shoes of a founder with three or four people. Right. So what would be your advice? How to approach V2V and uh, maybe some tips towards how to start that journey for someone that maybe is not a professional salesperson, but something.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, uh, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about in general about sales. Like you have to find your approach and based on who you are and your approach, you will find the right clients. Because one, you know, I will give you an example of STRV and In Loop. They do the same exact service. They are both B2B design development studios that build mobile apps. But the clients they had and the approaches they had were completely opposite. Uh, you know, the, at the time, David was the CEO of strv and he's very, um, like good, uh, at making friends. He was into the US culture. He even moved to the US and he's also a much bigger risk taker in everything he does. So, you know, I learned from him that like, he had a really cool strategy. When he sees an opportunity, he would go all in. And I was like, that's awesome. Like, you know, he's like, this person is interested. Let's set them a mock up. Let's put in the two days of design work, send them a mock up. Oh, they're really interested. Let's jump into a plane and go and meet them and do a lot of like, risky things. Some of them worked. Uh, some of them didn't. For example, he. One time we did a big event where we invited a ton of startups and the winner got like 50,000 free development. And we did it and the guy got 50,000 of free development and we're like, oh, he's going to continue and spend like a million more. And then he just left. So, you know, something, something different. But in general, you know, strv, they're growing like crazy. And um, I think a lot of it had to do with his mindset, his risk, his willing, uh, to go really. Like, he would be pushing the, the prices too. He would be experimenting, he would give different price points. See, because I think a lot of, a lot of people have a very specific price point in their head and if they increase it, they feel like they're cheating or doing something bad. When in truth is like your company is growing, your services are getting better, um, you know, you should be increasing prices and for a lot of people it's quite difficult. So you know for Strv they had a little bit higher prices, they had a much flashier like image where when I joined In Loop they were completely the opposite. They were much more toned down. They were like STRV was more focused on startups, In Loop was more focused on like corporates. Uh, the design of the company was completely different. STRV was having like fun events. Everyone knew them in Czech Republic. In Loop, much more tame, not so many events. It wasn't this like huge known brand but they both had like quite equal similar revenue, similar amount of people, um, just very different approaches. And I think it had to do also with the co founders David Ah, STRV was very like good at make meeting. People had this American mindset, easy for him to talk to like salespeople in the U.S. you know he. Whereas in In Loop they were much more professional like in the traditional type of way. Um, had much more like uh, experience on the technical side and they were, it was a little bit easier for them to talk to people at corporations even bigger, bigger companies in the US they had intel as a client which was really cool. Um, uh, so they had uh, maybe less smaller price points but their deals were much more stable where with uh, STRV they were uh, higher price points, a little bit riskier but a little bit flashier. So you really had to find each one of them I think had to find their own technique of selling that felt genuine and also the kind of clients that work with that sales technique and their own personality. So they would find the clients where they vibed with, they built that trust. Um, because they both offered really great services, very similar services in fact. It's just that you really have to as a founder especially you need to know how to sell and who to sell to.

Speaker A: I was wondering if you need to remember how was it looking the process for in the two companies. Like I said, if you're trying to sell to startups, can you remember how was more or less the process for you guys? Like um, I don't know, for the startup and maybe for the corporate in the context of In Loop or something like just as an example or exercise,

Speaker B: the process was very similar. Right. You're still reaching out, you're still trying to like you know I always say it's all about that building that trust and so that's where it's so important that you're uh, being honest. And you know, it was the same. It's just that SGRE already had a lot of clients from startups. They created case studies and like the design of their website was very flashy and cool that maybe some corporates go on it and they're like, oh, I don't know, like this is kind of crazy. Whereas in loop it would be the other way. So it's kind of just being genuine and like true to who you are. But the process is still the same. Hey, my design and my like offering fit startups more, but still it's cold. Reaching out on LinkedIn, building that genuine relationship with people. I mean with STRV, they knew they were pitching to startups. So you know, David would sometimes go and just grab drinks and go to a club with some big CEO and they would build genuine relationship and he'd get a great deal. For In Loop it might be, hey, like we take the, the guys from corporate bank and let's talk about like maybe meet a specific event that's relevant to them and also maybe grab some drinks but be like, you know, it's about being genuine. So it really like the process overall is the same. It's, you know, reaching out and making that connection.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, well, making connections is important I think in every part of life more or less. Right. So that's something to remember for sure. Um, yeah, I will leave you to rest a bit. Sorry, I'm making too many questions and everything. So. So how are you going so far? Are you okay or perfect? Good. So we will have of course, like five to 10 minutes more and then we will close. So if that's okay for you as well, um, I will take uh, a segue and go to other topics. So more about mentoring and you have experience, uh, with startup founders, uh, with Check Invest and maybe with other acceleration programs or programs out there. Um, so how do you see what are the common mistakes people is making that someone who is listening to us. Hey guys, you should avoid this because everyone is doing that mistake. Although it looks like we don't learn out of other people. We need to make it right. Like we need to make our own mistakes maybe sometime.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I think, uh, even as a mentor it's kind of sometimes hard to be like honest and give that honest feedback. And um, for the, for the entrepreneur as well, it's hard to. Sometimes I feel like it's hard for them also to be honest. And like admit something. So um, I just think that it's just being honest to yourself. I think like, can this really work? Um, and having that honesty from the entrepreneur perspective, uh, and being able, like not even honesty about specific things but like really looking deeper inside yourself. Can um, can this really, can my idea really be fulfilled with like this team or in this way? And uh, when I, I think a lot of founders get very defensive when I challenge them on things. Um, and, and I see that also. I hear that a lot from investors that like, hey, you know, you start challenging them and they take it personal. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm trying to say is like trying to keep it um, uh, like the business a little bit separate from your personal ego. And that's what I see a lot of times as you start challenging a men, a startup on something and they're not able to be uh, true to themselves. They like, they get almost defensive and they can't say, oh, maybe this was a mistake or something because you need to be able to be critical of yourself, critical of your idea. Um, it's okay to be challenged. It doesn't mean that what I say is always 100. Right. But I think it's important for you to be able to have that open mindset, um, and be able to listen to critical things. Like I'm very open minded, I'll listen to anything and sometimes be like, oh, that's. Or I'll be like, okay, that's interesting. I will uh, think about that a little bit more. Um, and I think it's okay to be open minded, it's okay to change your mindset. But the worst I think is to be like very set in your ways in the way that you won't even listen to the other person. And if you do listen, you just immediately get defensive and not open minded. So I think this open mindedness, some people are missing and maybe it's almost like an ego thing.

Speaker A: Gotta get it. And I know that um, since we have been talking about investors and so on, maybe do you have any advice that is related to this topic towards how to handle the relationship with investors that like I am not sure of course if you have all your investors happy or not. Right. Maybe not right. But uh, I don't know. But yeah, it's like how do you keep that relationship to.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Ideally be win win to everyone, right?

Speaker B: Ah, yeah. No, specifically with investors. Actually we have a great relationship with all our investors. I'm so happy because I've heard horror stories. I mean We've also been super lucky with the investors that we've had. Uh, all of them have been like, really, uh, great, uh, to us and like, supportive, I think so We've been super lucky. But, um, I think it also has to do a lot with our internal how we work with investors, which is like, we're 100% transparent. Um, like, we don't hide anything when things are bad. We're honest about it. And we're also lucky that our investors are not like, also emotional. They, they're like, okay, you know, what can we do to fix it? And they're very professional. So we have very, you know, we were quite picky with who we chose and we have very good investors, I think traditional investors who are very experienced, so they don't bring emotion into it. But also we are very upfront. So nothing is a surprise. It's not like, hey, guys, oops, we're out of money. Uh, no, it's like, hey, guys, there's situations, it's developing, we're working on it, we're aware of it. So I think it's having that complete transparency. Um, and we have that trust. So, you know, we've been through hard times, uh, and our investors have supported us and now we're in the good times and obviously they're supporting us. But I think now that we have this trust, I believe that if we are in a difficult place, again, our investors would support us. So I would say don't try to hide anything from them. It's really like, should be a transparent relationship.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's key. Transparency. Right. So not only. Well, again, in everything, but not only with the investors, but also with the team members and everything. Right. So that's the. Maybe the best, the best policy ever. Good, good. Um, now are you involved somehow with, um, what is happening in the Czech Republic or mentoring programs or. I don't know, maybe. Can you tell us a bit? Or to people that maybe don't know about the Czech Republic? Yeah. How do you look the Czech Republic right now? Because there are of course some unicorns, um, here. Um. Uh, but yeah, how do you see that, at least from your perspective as a startup and if you are excited or you see that. Well, I think there is still missing some support or something.

Speaker B: Yeah, Well, I think I have an interesting perspective because I came here from the US from New York specifically, 10 years ago, which was like exploding with startups, tech scene explosion. And when I came 10 years ago, I was like, I want to work for a startup. I knew that. And There wasn't like um, as much, well, as much as New York obviously, but even close to as much as there was now. There was some interesting startups, kind of, but really not much. There was not a big, as big a startup scene at all. Not so many investors, not so many startups. It was really like just starting to bubble up and over the past 10 years I feel like it's exploded. So many big startups, unicorns are coming out of Czech Republic. It's incredible. And uh, like this huge boom of investment into Czech startups. Amazing, uh, opportunities for Czech startups, support from the government, support from like different programs. So I would say the change is night and day, like what there is now. It's crazy. There's so many groups, so much support, so much talk, such a big network of people. Czech Republic is still relatively small, but I am um, already surprised at how much it has to offer in terms of startup.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's exciting because I also have the similar perspective of the 10 years life here and yeah, it's interesting and how have evolved and of course there is always improvements to do but of course if you compare it on um, years, it's still going well. Um, I was wondering because the other day I was meeting with an investor and he was telling me that one common pattern of people that he believes will succeed is that they will have the willingness to move to the US since you are from the US but you moved to the Czech Republic. I don't know, maybe in the future if someone else uh, loves you, you will go back to the US or I don't know. Right. But then, um, yeah. What is your feeling into this comment? I'm making you that he was watching that. Yeah, he was taking it from the perspective that the big rounds of series B or C, uh, are play in the US market. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I think it has actually multiple things to do with it. Number one is, uh, well number one actually I think is that it just shows that the founder is so invested, he's ready to uproot his life to make this work. And I think that's important. Uh, that just shows commitment. Uh, but the US is completely different animal. Like you can get your valuation can basically double there if you get the right investor. Um, the market is so much bigger there, like opportunity, how much money people like, you know, even in B2C apps, people subscribe and spend much more in US than anywhere else the world. So there are huge opportunities in the U.S. and you know, when I talk to investors specifically U.S. investors. And I tell them, yeah, we're in Europe or in Brazil, we're in the U.S. they're like, why are you anywhere except the U.S. if you've made it in the U.S. you've made it. That's it. You don't need any other market, which is true. Um, but I think the reason that they say for a foreigner to raise in the US you have to live there, you have to understand the US culture. You have to like be able to build trust with the American investor. You have to have a U.S. entity. You have to really put in that leg, legwork to really be there, show that you're here, you're a real person. You're not going to raise like over a video call. Uh, I think every investor nowadays wants to meet in person before they invest. Um, and especially in the U.S. it's like, there's so many options in the U.S. why would I invest someone in Czech Republic? They don't even know where that is usually.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So that's also an interesting stuff for if that will change someday or. Well, it's improving, I assume. Right? Because it depends more into the local founders being successful and then, then later they convert to being investor. Right?

Speaker B: Potentially, yeah. I mean, still, I think for local, local startups it's easier to raise from local investors. Uh, and if you really want to raise in the US you need to go there, you need to be there talking to them, meeting them in person.

Speaker A: Got it, Got it. Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. Why not? Um, I will do last two questions for now. So is there anything like something that has been helpful to you in your journey, not only with readmea, but in sales and in growth. That it can be a book, it can be a podcast or methodologies that you believe. Wow, this is, have changed my perspective that, uh, maybe you can recommend.

Speaker B: Yeah, I can recommend three books. And I think it's uh, it's all about mindset, right. And like setting up your whole life. I think your whole life is related to like the success that you'll have. So for me it's not, it's like, yes, it's work, but it's also your daily life and your habits. It's also like physical exercise, at least for me. And it's having that balance with your family. So, you know, if we're talking specifically about business, I think the lean startup, everyone, every startup person should build it because, you know, even though we're a well funded startup, we're still lean, we're still need to Think that way. You know, startups run out of money all the time. You know, it's a completely different mindset. I remember when working at, like, a corporate company, you don't think about Runway. You don't think, uh, that money can end. It's like, it's not even a thing that you think about with startups. You're always thinking, uh, about how much Runway do I have? What if money runs out? So you need to be lean and you need to be fast. And so that book really helped me from that perspective, but from a personal perspective, and I think it helps with work as well. Um, Atomic Habits has been, like, an incredible book to just set up your life, be more effective at work, be more effective at life. And I really recommend that book to everyone. I think it's, like, life changing. Um, and, uh, the other book, um, or I should say author is David Goggins. His book is, like, incredible for just mindset of, like. Yeah, he talks a lot about physical things, but it's not about physical. It's about, like, really, uh, like, pushing yourself. And like, nothing, like, nothing is impossible. You can do it. Having that mindset. And it's like conquering your mind, I think is the term he uses. It's about conquering your mind and really being able to have that resilience, to push forward, to continue and not give up.

Speaker A: So, Ilya, I am really disappointed that you haven't mentioned one of your New Yorker fellow. So. Yeah, yeah, gotta be. No, no, you don't. You don't listen to this guy.

Speaker B: Idol. He's cool. I would. I would hang out with. He hasn't invited me yet, but if he did, I would.

Speaker A: He hasn't invite you to a basketball gang or something, Drinking wine or a

Speaker B: podcast maybe after he sees this?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I need to publish that. Uh, if you give me permission, I can publish it. Good, good. Yeah, that's interesting. Right? Because of course, yeah, you. You at the end of the day, of course, you select your role models and of course. And the people that you believe communicate easier to you and reach out to you. Right. So that's nice. Um, now, uh, so last two points for today. So I'm really random coming back to the personal story, right? And, uh, yeah, what do you do apart from working in Readme first, Like a hobby or something that it helps you mentally as well and physically. Um, and yeah, what do you recommend to visit around Prague, Czech Republic, that maybe for someone who is not from Prague or from the Czech Republic will appreciate? Uh, that is not the standard touristic stuff. Right.

Speaker B: Maybe my life evolves. It's like readmeo and kids, so it's not super exciting. But the only other thing I do is like, physical exercise. So I try to go almost every day either to the gym or run and push myself physically and mentally. So unfortunately, my life is not super exciting. I barely have time for anything outside of kids, work, and maybe some running or working out. Uh, but it's okay. It's a good balance I think I have at the moment. And then, like, what my favorite pastime when I was, uh, like without kids was we would get those paddle boats and a bottle of wine and. Or like beers and it's a great time. You just paddle around. It's, uh, you know, drink some wine and beer, chatting with friends. Um, so that was one of my, uh, favorite activities. Um, it's not super touristy, so I highly recommend it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really nice activity for the sprint and summer. Right. Unless you like the extreme weather and you. You can paddle in cold weather. Yeah. We have, of course, the common friend, David Semirad. Right. So maybe that's an activity for him to do in winter too. No, no. You don't do cold plunge as well or not. Yeah, yeah, that's a hard one. Um, yeah. Do you. Is there anything that we haven't talked today or something that we already mentioned but you believe is quite important for people to remember that you can tell us? Yeah. Um.

Speaker B: Oh, it's, you know, I think everyone has their own journey. I was just talking to another startup. They asked for like some mentorship. They do something very similar in edtech and they were saying, hey, like, what's the magic secret? Like, what. What's the fix? Like, especially we're in the same industry. Like, and I was like, oh, man, I don't even know. Like, you know, I, I was looking at the things and, you know, it's like I can't pinpoint any one thing that really worked. But it was through, uh, trying and trying and continuing and doing all those things that everything slowly, slowly builds up to where you are. And I would say maybe that's the last thing just to, you know, pinpoint again is that, you know, I think during it, you're like, so focused on the now that you can't really see your growth. But like, last night we were sitting with our co founders and we're just like. But like, look what's happened like five years ago where we are now. Every year it doesn't feel like it day to Day, it feels like a struggle every day, but, like, look back, every year we're doubling or tripling the company. Every year we're growing. Um, and that, you know, of course, everyone's expectations are super high that you're going to be a millionaire in, like, uh, one year. But, you know, just be realistic, be patient, be resilient, um, and look at the bigger picture. And I think sometimes it's hard when you're in that startup. You're always like, looking, oh, uh, you know, the revenue is like, so similar to yesterday's, but, you know, if you just change by 1% every day, that's like huge in a year. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And can you tell us a bit as a last point, like, what is holding to the future of readmeal? Like, I know you have this vision of Astoria, they being read to every child in the world. Right. So, um, yeah. Can you tell us what are the next steps to be closer to that goal from your perspective at this stage?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we have so many ideas. So, uh, you know, we see as readme almost like our first step into the parental market because there's so many things we want to do. Uh, but just to, like, talk about the specific goal of sharing it with the world, you know, as I said, we're in eight languages now, but we're planning to add four more this year. So really, like, 50% more languages that we're going to be in, um, 50% more like countries that we can cover. Um, but at the same time, we have so many new ideas for new products, new ways for, uh, still in this realm of, I would say, edutainment, educational entertainment, but staying far away from these dopamine factories that are just like, uh, you know, like flashing lights. And I see it on my children. You know, I'm so choosy and picky about if they do watch tv, what are they watching? If they use some kind of app, what do they use? Because there's so much garbage out there. There's so much stuff that just brain rot. Uh, especially now more than ever, that we're really focused on creating these tools that, you know, another motto that we have is that, hey, we know that readmeo will not change the world, but the children that read our stories will. So it's about helping children grow and learn and in this educational environment, that really helps them become stronger and better people.

Speaker A: Well, uh, Ilya, thanks for your time. Today was a, uh, really nice vision and I hope, wish you all the best. And again, I regret not investing you guys, because we didn't meet in Holovice for a coffee for whatever reason I didn't follow up or whatever. It doesn't matter. But yeah, but it's all my fault. You get it?

Speaker B: Never too late. I'll take your money.

Speaker A: Well, I mean, if you are racing, I don't know, maybe. What is your next round? Maybe. Can you tell me?

Speaker B: Next round? Probably next year.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So, yeah, I. I will have to already be playing the big leagues, right? Like to invest more money. Not. It's not angel investing money. No, no. So. Okay. I need to create a fund. Good. Um. Yeah, so thank you, Ilya. So I hope you enjoy the conversation today and of course we keep talking and, um. All the best. Hopefully we can meet more frequently that we have done because it has been years apart, I think. But yeah, uh, um. Yeah, so you can maybe let me know where to find the best American stuff in the. In Prague or in the Czech Republic or something.

Speaker B: In Prague.

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker B: Well, it was my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on.

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you and have a good rest of the day. See you. Thank you very much for joining us. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and gained valuable insights. Feel free to share with your friends and looking forward to seeing you next time. Sa.