#66: From napkin idea to scalable fitness brand and angel investing | Talk with Seen Aquin - Chief Growth Officer @ Ententee, Founder @ BodyBody, Investor

Speaker A: Hey everyone.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Upper sky podcast. My name is Ricardo Monegas and I will be your host on this podcast. We would like to share valuable knowledge, lessons learned and stories from entrepreneurs, investors and managers while running their businesses. We strive to ask uh, the right questions and uh, discover insight from our guests so you can apply them in your business and life right after each episode. Thanks for joining us and let's get started. Hi everyone.

Speaker A: Today we are having an exciting conversation with Sang Akin. He have multiple roles in his life starting from corporate in the aerospace industry and then moving to uh, being a founder and also an investor. So if you see he's LinkedIn, he has invested in multiple startups out there so maybe we can talk about some of those stories and experiences. But nowadays his main focus is working in entity as a general manager and he's a software development company working on topics like AI, healthcare and digital transformation, partnering with enterprises and startups. Welcome Stan, how are you doing?

Speaker C: Thank you for having me.

Speaker D: I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm very excited to for this podcast.

Speaker A: Good, good. Before we go deep into all your experience and advice, so I want, I was wondering, is there anything like a small wing of today that you can tell us that maybe could be. Yeah, just as a icebreaker for today. Right.

Speaker D: You know being an entrepreneur is um, uh, I would say it's a life changing uh, step for many people. Uh, especially moving from a uh, corporate jumping into entrepreneurship or coming from the university to entrepreneurship. I would say it's one of the hardest step to make. But uh, the rewards that it carries from that are immense as well. So I will, I will say to anybody who is listening to these who are thinking of becoming an entrepreneur, just do it. You will lose more by not trying or not trying and failing than actually watching to others doing themselves and achieving some great success out of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was maybe watching this random post that we all spend time of hopefully not using but like there was like this life after let's say is or not is ideally right. One of them is about yeah, not starting a business or not trying to follow your dreams or something like that. So it's kind of that reminder is a good start as you mentioned.

Speaker D: Yes, yes indeed.

Speaker A: We, we will travel on time and then you were of course focusing in your corporate job. So. But what makes you to start in this case Body. Body, which was your first endeavor, which is still running and operating, right?

Speaker D: Yes, um, one of the things that I like to do, um, since you know, since I was younger, even though uh, that was a long time ago. Uh, it was always trying to find a way to improve things around me. And uh, there was one funny game we used to play together with my wife. Um, every time we go for holidays, it was, uh, wherever we will go, whatever service we will take or uh, uh, get when we are on holidays, we will always look for ways how to improve it, how to make it better. And in this game, it was actually what got us into the idea of uh, body. Body. We were traveling in Bali, that was 1112 years ago. And we met a couple over there that they told us about this crazy, uh, way of training with electrodes. Basically having a training suit with electrodes all over your body. And that actually was really interesting, intriguing for us. So we started making, playing the game together with my wife. So we started making numbers, putting in a napkin, literally in a paper napkin, writing out their business model. Basically we ask, you know, how much cost in the operations, the rent, the price the clients are paying for it, and what was the equipment about? And so on one.

Speaker C: And that was the aha moment for

Speaker D: us because we saw it. All right, this is quite interesting.

Speaker C: Understanding about the issue, the problematics that

Speaker D: they actually were facing or we were trying to solve it was one of the most amazing things that happened to us because we clearly saw the problem and we clearly saw the people, uh, having this problem. And this technology, uh, being completely new or relatively new in the market, it cannot really tackle this. Uh, the issues that the common people like you and me and most people, 95% of the population are suffering is that they are not training, uh, regularly. They are suffering by back pain.

Speaker C: Uh, they don't have time, they don't know how to train.

Speaker D: Uh, moreover, they are getting sick because of, uh, all these issues. So it's really connecting the technology into longevity. And that's where that, that was the, the, the pillar that we want to be focusing on. Like you mentioned, I came from corporate. I was in, in Honeywell at that time in the aerospace aftermarket, uh, aerospace. So basically selling technology to large, uh, airlines in the Mediterranean area. So technology was always something that evolved in my mind that they needed to be applicable in the industries which are quite laid back in the fitness industry is one of those industries which was. Much technology was not really happening at that time. So we saw it as an opportunity. We were very curious and through that curiosity is that, uh, we decided to test it, to see it, to try it. So we tried it ourselves. We went to Switzerland, we tried the equipment over there and we were Completely literally shocked twice because uh. Uh one it was training with this electricity that was number one and second was really the output come from that. I mean how we felt after the training and that was really amazing. And for us it was really an opportunity at that moment because we saw that nothing like that existed that year in Czech, in the Slovak Republic it was just starting in Germany and in Switzerland and some other countries. But it was really barely known as a technology for the fitness industry and the well being and longevity as to say.

Speaker C: So we become very curious about it

Speaker D: and we start uh doing our research on that in finding where we can get this technology. And through that we obviously we decided to put our money and our time and uh decided to quit my career and corporate and take the risk on jumping in such a new adventure. Take into consideration at that point I never built any company so it was really starting from the beginning. But I was lucky enough we got together with uh. One entrepreneur to become our partner. Our angel investor Peter Novak who was the ex founder of uh Profit Media. And he really liked the idea of building this concept of uh now called body body and we brought that this one. We launched it in 20 um 13. And since then we've been running the business as a franchise uh uh in a quite success way. Uh we actually built a trend here in the market where you know nothing was like this. And now you can see there are over two hundred and fifty locations in Czechoslovakia uh using similar technology and copying uh our business model that we created.

Speaker A: Right, right. So that's a nice uh story and yeah ah all started from a napkin paper. So that's the stereotype of how we need the prototype let's say.

Speaker C: Yeah, the first business model. Yeah, I mean the idea was always

Speaker D: since the beginning that we want to build a franchise. You know. So we did have the vision of uh not to having only one unit but to have a multiple units because we know we knew that it was requiring a very small investment the operational to be I mean personal break even. It was quite, quite short time and the profitability was there. I mean one studio doesn't make you rich but this quite uh makes you know for, for a couple who will be running the operations of one single studio or a person replace not uh a normal corporate job. I would say a well paid job.

Speaker B: Everything started from this uh, paper napkin.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: Yeah. And also something interesting of course that you started this with your wife right in, in that moment it was your wife or you were still dating or. What is the story behind starting a business with your. With your significant other, let's say. Yeah,

Speaker C: yeah, no, I mean uh, it was a challenge but it was actually quite good. And there was not, I wouldn't say a challenge. We coped with each other very well in terms of um, the business acumen. You know we work very well as a team and uh, that showed from the very beginning because she had experience on the finance part because uh, she used to work in the company Erson Young as a um, uh financial advisor and I was more in the business side.

Speaker D: You know. So the.

Speaker C: Our. We complement each other very well. So it makes sense in uh coming in having our. Our third partner Peter Novak. He was a marketing guy. He experienced in. In uh. Our entrepreneur who built uh different other businesses and invested in so on other. So he kind of like complemented the entire scope of what we needed for launching our business. So I would say that was actually really really helpful. Lucky enough for us, for me that I had such a people around to compliment and help in the areas where I knew that I have big limitations. Um and I learned so much from this experience and that's basically what I see when I evaluate other businesses as well. I look to the team and the dynamics they have.

Speaker B: Yeah. Especially since you are investing in Pre Seed. Right. So I think more or less you are investing into the people that are pushing you and their team. Right, Correct. Yeah. Maybe we can go into that direction since we already started talking about that. Well maybe the first point will be okay, is there something that you. You still recommend to work with your partner maybe and how to distinguish this relationship personal and. Yeah. What is your experience not only for you but maybe you have seen this happening also other businesses.

Speaker C: Yeah. Look, I'll put it this way. Not always, but not always is recommended to do it with your partner because you know you have to really distinguish over there and leave ego aside have a really clear fundamentals when you actually working with somebody it doesn't really necessarily be mean that working with uh. Somebody else will be uh successful. You know it can be also create some issues. You know I have seen co founders fighting and splitting and after you know few years uh, you know couples which they. They run businesses very successfully. But it is really about uh. Respect about uh consideration and about really balancing the sales of skills. A set of skills. Sorry doing auto agnostic and knowing where you feel you're lacking uh and really be willing to receive the inputs from somebody who has those skills. Uh, who has that the set of knowledge that can only make the whole operation much easier. I Will not say no, uh, to couples actually. But I need to see the dynamic. But again, you know, you enter business with your best friends and at the end you ended up breaking out the friendship because of this. You know, so it can happen to anybody in any point of time, any stage.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I was wondering. So I think one of the key stuff that you mentioned here is of course that complementary skills.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Like correct. Because of course I think most of the partnerships break when people start stepping in each other's shoes maybe I think I have seen that and or even failing some partnerships because of that. Right. That then someone wants to do your job. But okay, but if you are already hired me for this or we are elaborating already for this. So just focus on your stuff and I will of course we can give feedback, but it needs to be still some boundaries on that.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Yes. One of the hardest part, uh, I would say for us to set up the line when we actually stop working and being a partners, you know, a life partner. So exposes. So this one was one of the hardest uh thing to get used to at the beginning because you know we work basically 247 since we didn't even have an office at that time. We had the studios, you know, where the, the where operations were running and everything we were actually doing from home. So we. The only topic we had in. In common from. From that point it was like really work, you know, what are we going to do for marketing, for branding, for uh, ambassadors and so on and so forth. So it was really very. It was quite hard to, to set up the line, you know, where, where we actually stop the these, these discussions and we, we start being a couple again. But we did manage quite well at the same time we, we launch our business. We had our first son, our first kid, which he was actually born just a week after we opened our first

Speaker B: uh, studio Double Celebration.

Speaker C: Two babies were born. You know, our business and our first born. Yeah. So we managed to balance it well thanks to that as well because it keeps us down to earth. And uh, really the responsibilities of running an operations employees and having kids is also quite. It was quite dynamic.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. I am in those shoes right now. So yeah, I understand it. And you have more experience. So I will come to you for some words of wisdom or. I don't know.

Speaker C: Well, my kids are. They look normal. So I think something right. I have done.

Speaker B: Good point, good point. That's great.

Speaker A: That's great.

Speaker B: Um, now if, if you can talk about. Yeah. Because it's incredible. I Think maybe, I don't know, but that you basically uh, from the beginning you were thinking about franchising, right? So what brings you that idea? It was that um, that you were working in corporates and then it was like always thinking as big as possible or how was how that came into mind, the franchise concepts.

Speaker C: You know it's because you know we have a really in our mind every time we discuss any business idea. It was about uh, what problem are we solving, you know, how big is the problem? And then it was about uh, how scalable is going to be this uh, if we manage to solve it. Now in the service industry, especially in this fitness industry as well as like you know, lifestyle to build something in the scalable way, you are not owning the IPs and the manufacturing power or the technical power on that. It's just really hard to find the right scalable business model, especially on the service part. So we were combining the technology with the service. The technology that we didn't build we actually acquired by signing an exclusive uh, distribution agreement. Uh, and we own the brand uh, for launching the business. So for us to make it, to actually make this business work we needed to be focusing on the customer acquisition, on the client acquisition and the B2C. And we knew that if we are to invest uh, so much money into one unit and one brand, one uh, branch, it will require a significant amount of capital uh, to educate the population enough so they understand what is the technology we have over there. And it doesn't make sense uh, to do it only for one uh, place. So that's why we said look, you know, if we are to make a successful business out of this, we need to have multiple locations and very quickly, rapidly. The benefits of it was that uh, opening uh, one studio requires really a small investment. Nowadays you can open with 500,000 check rounds, um, up to 2 million depending on the status of the unit. You can open and operate one of the branches and that the return of investment is between ah, 24 to uh, 45 months. You can actually recuperate the investment. Uh, and that's the beauty of it. That's why we saw this as a franchise opportunity. We invest a lot in branding, marketing and getting the clients coming to the locations and build a replicable service so they can be really easy to understand to anybody that they understand, uh, and they can follow some steps, some processes from the moment of opening the door to providing the right presentation, the right service, the right training, enclosing uh, uh, the first sales of packages or memberships. To the clients. So we create a whole process in place that it will be really easy to replicate and that's how we actually find the scalability in our. In this business. Otherwise having only one unit, one fitness uh center it will not make it for us all the efforts and investments we put into it.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Maybe you won't be right now sitting investing in startups right. You because you will be more focused on operating that one place.

Speaker C: Correct? It's about the unit economic. You know you have to really understand very well the unit economic. The I mean the, the problem you're solving the right product market fit, how to acquire the clients and how to retain the clients and what is the cost of doing so. Not only um, on the acquisition part but also maintaining growing that. So I understand the unit economic was really important from uh the very beginning because otherwise we'll be just burning money.

Speaker B: I will put a pin to that topic and I will make a note here to go deeper into it because it's interesting also your recommendations to when you are investing in to see the startups and how do you collaborate with them into maybe that topic because you need economics or their plan to scale as a VC funded company. Right. But just before going there I want to also since we are talking about body Body I think maybe we can talk about the industry itself on longevity and well being. Right. So, so do you have any. What is your let's say thinking about what exciting you of what is happening into this industry and what you are looking forward towards it that it can be inside body body or other technologies that exist.

Speaker C: I mean I uh would say like it's really interesting industry. You know it's all connected with the healthcare. Right. Longevity. It's not just about supplements, it's not just about uh having some chemicals uh to extend your life expectancy but there's or having a proper way, proper health access to it prevention, early identification of uh some potential issues on your health and the ways how you can actually leverage with the technology to be able to treat it as early as possible so you can extend your life expectancy. So this is what I do see a huge still um a huge um future in this particular industry and 1Ah of the reasons why uh I joined entity because the they are doing that particular space very strongly in the market. So I see that there is a big potential nowadays within advance of the technology when we actually see AI using AI for early identification uh on um cancer cells by using radiologist X ray screening or for any advance on uh studies on the genes or DNA for early identifications or finding new sol or new mixes for, for uh, uses of drugs or, or medicines or evolution. So I think there is a huge space there. They can be exploded. This is what I, what I where why I like to continue this path in the well being and the uh, longevity sector in healthcare.

Speaker B: Yeah. Great. So you, you have made now your life vision let's say to focus into this sector maybe. But I, I think you are also collaborating with other industries. Right. And at least not maybe not hands on um, operations. Right. But at least supporting them as an investor as well.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Yes. Actually this is one of the. One of our primary focus on. On Starguide in the. In our venture capital fund uh is to invest in early stage uh startups primarily pre seed stages uh and focusing on. On the tech side. I mean in the, in the industries of um, health tech, fintech and enterprise software which is the areas where we see the biggest possibilities of scalability. We don't invest into hardware, we don't invest into software so they have clear scalable models and the support of focusing uh, on the central and eastern European market where we also see there is a huge possibilities of growth, uh faster growth because of the market itself. I mean the engineers coming out from this region as they are very capable, very strong and affordable as well uh, comparable to the Western. So I'm using that, that, that philosophy as well when we do investment. So not only to the healthcare which obviously now is my quite quite focused for me but uh, in general we're looking into those aspects bringing the technology again into, into this space on actually saving lives.

Speaker B: Exactly. And talking about stories. So it's like when was the time that you started to invest? It was like after because right now you are not operating I think body, Body.

Speaker A: Right. You are more as uh, of course

Speaker B: you are the founder.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker B: Yeah. How. What was the moment on time that you started? Okay, now I will put the eggs in different baskets let's say.

Speaker C: Yeah, well actually this one came. It was not planned, it was not part of my. I would say my vision of where, which direction I want to move or go. It came naturally after running the operations on bodybody and growing the business and building a brand and uh, people start recognizing what we have done. And I was invited uh, quite a few times uh, to give um, uh a speech on the University of Economics, a lecture on entrepreneurship. That one I would say that was the first step into actually looking into other ventures and investments and mentoring. Because while I was doing these lectures it was uh, at the university I got in contact with a lot of young entrepreneurs which they were thinking about uh a project they want to build or they were about to or they want to explore more and they approached me because they want to get some uh mentorship and through that actually I also have an opportunity that could m uh provide some small tickets to support them and to help them launch the business. It was a bit of uh giving back from what I actually received when I started my venture. When I started bodybody we have Peter Novak investing on us as an angel investor. He took the risk and helped us grow. So I started thinking that I should do the same thing um uh and help other potential founders uh or ah entrepreneurs to start their businesses. Obviously I didn't do in bulk or in multiple cases. It was really in a selective um cases from that most of the time, most of my my investment was my time in in in in some of the these projects with the mentorship. And I want to actually to have this one more structured in a in a way that they will not only be deploy capital but I want to have not just my, my experiences as as a as an investment but that to have other people uh from the industry or from the. From the market which they have a really high set of skills and experiences who have built several companies and to do the same. So at that time I met with Peter Young uh who is a GP on Starguide and he was actually doing the same thing. He exited his uh business before he was in had this Ad Express uh a marketing agency company who it was sold to Dentsu to one large um enterprise and he had obviously the capacity for investment but at the same time he had the set of skills in terms of the marketing which was quite interesting uh for startups. So we met, we met each other and we saw that there was an opportunity to get together ourselves and build something. And obviously I brought some people from uh, uh some of my contacts including Petter Novak uh and he brought Camille Coppi from Dignity Group uh and we decided to launch this vehicle that will allow us to not uh only to invest into a startup but uh to create a portfolio that we can actually each and one of us we can contribute with uh some know how network and help help those founders to grow in a much more systematic way in a structured way. So that's how we launch uh uh our start guide our vehicle and become uh what it is now with uh already uh 15 startups invested it in our first fund. Uh we have uh over 25 uh LPs in our fund. Um, and now we also have uh, really smart people in our investment committee like Tomasz Kozubek or Peter Malik as well. Uh both of them they have a really strong uh, presence in the market reputation uh in really they help us bring in a lot of clarity on the selection of the startups that we have. Uh and lastly recently also Yana Sedelakova from Sedelakova Legal, uh, she joined us um, uh as our third GP in the fund uh because she saw what we have done with the previous investments we did and how we operate and what is the added value uh, that we provide to, to the, to the founders and yeah, and that that's how be actually we move into more, more structured way of uh, of investment.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you have your baby steps with Song angel investment and then go to, towards vc. Yeah. I wonder if you are selecting partners based on that they have better in their name because you have.

Speaker C: Well Petter is a very common name here so it's quite hard not to get any better involved in any type of business. I don't know how many Petters you met here, uh, in Czech Republic.

Speaker B: Multiples for sure. Yeah.

Speaker C: Petter Yakub.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. Multiple common names. But I think. Well that's happening in every country.

Speaker A: Correct?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Not like my name. Yeah my name is.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah that's of course you have a unique branding so that you can mention it like that way like the unfair advantage you have at least. Unique advantage like uh, sorry, unfair advantage. I was wondering because you just mentioned about your added value. Of course. Uh, so yeah you, and you mentioned the skills of each of the team members. So uh, can you mention to us how do you collaborate with the startups that you invest? So do you have some kind of. I know it's not the same as an acceleration program of course a busy phone but you try to somehow have some kind of a structured way to help them based of all your knowledge and stuff or you just do it based of course on their needs and so on.

Speaker C: I would say it's a combination of both to start with. Uh because most of uh startups in the very early, early stage, especially if they are first time uh founders they, I wouldn't say all but most of them in the precedent stage they are quite good on the technical part. They know the product but they are lacking on the business acumen, understanding the market, the, the you know, understanding how the product market fit will be or the unique value proposition they have and how to address it and how to Actually build a really accurate or at least a good go to market strategy that reflects with the unit economic. This is quite common. Uh, I see there is a lot of missing opportunities by meaning uh startups they failed because of uh, not having that level of uh experience in the core team. Um and that's where we believe we have quite a big advantage because all of us are entrepreneurs, we all have built companies so we know what it takes to go from a team of one or two uh to have a few hundred or even thousand employees. So with that experience is something that uh, we like to go and help the founders not only put in capital because uh, typically we invest a smaller ticket at the beginning uh and then later on we invest a follow up follow uh on investment in those startups which we see, you know they, they are progressively growing fast. But by being, having hands on into, into our approach we are able to identify opportunities within meaning like uh, we see that they are going in the right direction so we can put uh, more, more capital with the similar or same conditions on which we enter. And also we are able to mitigate risk because we are not waiting until, sorry for my words, until the sheet hits the fence. But we are more in the in in the proactive uh approach rather than the you know uh, we are more in the proactive approach rather than waiting until something is happening and start reacting to the reacting approach. So that obviously help us to preserve our investment and to grow our investment as well. In terms of the time where we deliver to the first phase of the startups between the first uh 6 to 8 months, in some cases uh 10 months, we will be uh delivering between 10 to 15 hours per month on support. So we are not there to become their big brother or to be uh, doing micromanagement on them. No, not at all. Why we are more like a partners. So rather than them to be only talking to us to make reports, we want them to talk to us when they are thinking of some strategic moves and they take our advices uh, to help them bring some more clarity to the actions they will be making.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that's important and really necessary if you are operating in certain industries. Right, because.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Well in general of course it's better to have this mentor than just do it along and then make mistakes that you could avoid. Right, yeah.

Speaker C: As being a really smart money or uh. From the beginning.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Is there something that you consider a red flag when you are investing into potential or what you are evaluating potential startups and yeah, if you can mention some One or two topics that are ah, there

Speaker C: I can tell you a few if I will think on um, uh something uh, I will say okay, a founder's lack of uh, self awareness is one when they think too much of themselves. They, they, they, they know it all without having yet experience in building anything. That's a red flag when we don't see real uh chemistry between the team. There is no real team who are actually uh willing to do the execution. That is also a red flag when they are actually focusing uh too much into the fundraising and not actually creating a valuable product that is going to, they have a real value for clients in the market. That's also a red flag. And uh, last I will say uh yeah, when they don't understand their numbers, if they are not able to tell us within you know in the first 30 seconds how they looking to monetize uh, from, from these endeavors and how they're going to apply this, the financial fundamentals into their business. That's also quite concerning. So the, these are the typical things that we will be making us think twice whether if the team, the people they have what it takes to drive these startups uh, in a success path.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. And so I think well I was putting a ping into the unit of economics so this is a good point to talk about that since you are mentioning as a red flag if people is not thinking about this. So uh, what are your thoughts or processes or ideas towards how to think that? Imagine today we say well you will partner with another petter and then you will start another business and you will say okay, how should I think from day one how this will scale and what is the units of economics and the monetization of the business. Right, right.

Speaker C: I mean depends a lot on the, on what type of business model it is. You know, if it's a SaaS business or if it's a finished product or you know to selling how into who you are selling if you are selling to a B2B B2C all depends. But uh, one thing which is really crucial is that you have to understanding where is the who is the buyer is key key element of obviously and why they will want to buy your product and why they need it. Now this, this uh solution uh, and how you going to get them. So knowing that particular part is going to play a big role on your unit economics because that's where it's going to represent them. How much money you are to put into the product development, obviously the operations of the business but also your, your marketing expenditures Uh a lot of businesses they tend to spend a lot into marketing without really knowing what is going to be the right uh targeting uh without actually building a clear go to market strategy that is proven to really finding uh the scalable model for it. It's quite hard to anticipate how much cost is going to be connected to that. Not only in terms of uh, how much it's going to cost you to build a brand and get the clients but actually operate those clients. In the B2B size business uh then where we like to be in the, in the SaaS business when you're providing any type of software for any SME or enterprise you need to also calculate a lot on how much it's going to cost you to not only to sell the product, the product and also the time that it's going to take you to get there into, into the clients process but also maintaining like uh the installation part, the service part and the customer support part. All in all if they are not able to really count it well and set up the right price on which is going to be charged and how it's going to be the model that is going to be charged in the future that can make the business collapse because you're going to have a high cost of uh operations and the unit economically will just not work for you. You will not be able to break even or to reach into the breakeven point will take much longer. So you know in the pre sit stage you are, you need to prove that there is a good uh, uh product market fit. When you are in the seed stage you are showing that you are able to catch it and try and grow it and start scaling so you actually getting capital to, for the, for you know, for the uproad for the scaling part in the series A you should already be growing the operations and getting more capital to grow uh faster. Uh a lot of startups that we see in the beginning they believe they're ready from the MVP side that they will be able to scale it immensely and they start hiring a lot of people and that completely kills their business plan because uh, they have too many people with no clients to be supporting. And this is a quite big mistake. They should really uh, small steps take you farther distance so they have to be focusing on the steps that makes immediate returns so they can actually grow slowly but steady.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. This is a um, common mistake is seen as well right. Like people start hiding like crazy and then there is not enough demand so the overhead is big and.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah but then There is another problem. You know they have managed to get to the uh, to the scalable uh point but then they have a different issue which is managing managing teams because scaling teams scaling uh the hr ah part of it uh that also generates. You are not anymore like uh 2, 3 people. You are becoming 100 people uh operation, 200 people operation. You become a manager. If you don't have the right skills on managing and setting up the right processes that can collapse as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Of course these are different game in all the stages so and focus and the founders of course needs to adapt to it right. And grow step by step those skills or someone else also can join a mentor or replace people because they need help. Now I will go more towards other topics since I think we are like maybe if that's okay for you. We have around 10 minutes more if that's um. Uh yeah. You have participated as a mentoring programs like in the Czech Republic called Doho and React and mentoring startups. So yeah. What are also what is your experience with these programs and do you think they are key for, for the startups or do you think is is something that you should avoid in precedent, focus in your product market fees or how do you feel into those concepts dot or hope program?

Speaker C: They are primarily focused on SMEs so they are not startups. They are just companies which they really are are struggling to you know to sur threshold they already reaching. They need to have more um, you know alleviate or finding different point of views on how to detour or pivot their business. In the other hand in Reactor X for instance where I'm a mentor, those are for startups, for early stages startups. Uh in both cases um, I find it very refreshing because I do like to speak with people with the. Where you know their interest is not just on getting capital from myself from, from, from me as an investor but they actually would like to discuss uh more openly about their, their, their issues and problems because they need uh help or clarity on, on their work. The day to day work. They have that for me quite, quite significant. And uh, I like to do that. I'm not doing it so actively. I really choose very carefully the projects where I want to be involved because uh time is limited. You know I will get into one to two projects uh per year. What I will be uh supporting through that uh, through those efforts.

Speaker B: Great. And do you remember what is common advice that you give to startups founders at this point at least or if you remember one of the stories that you have been helping this, these companies

Speaker C: look if it's a startups I will say like really especially when the, in the preceding stage when they are, they haven't yet uh generated revenues. They have to be very clear on, on uh, uh on their business uh business models, uh the go to market strategy. I would say that's, that's one of the biggest issues they have. Second is uh evaluation because they, they tend to to over evaluate or under evaluate their business because they don't just, they just don't know how to do that how to evaluate their, their businesses. Um and that's one of the common mistakes is that happen is that when in the precedent stage especially there are a lot of angel investors which will put um, a small ticket and they will take a lot of equity from the startup because the startup founder they are just happy to have somebody who's going to put some money and uh, they would just give a big chunk of their business and then that, that converts into debt, debt equity and that can only really uh damage um their possibilities to get different funding and different stages and grow. Uh we have phase uh two uh do a lot of cleanup in terms of the cap table uh in some of those startups because of the fact they make those mistakes in the early stage and that's why we like to uh be if you know one of the first investors in the precede so we can actually help them to create a sustainable cap table so they can become investable in the, in the future as well. Now in SMEs is different right? Because SMEs they already they are either uh family owned business and um, they just don't uh, they are they having hard time to cope with the progress on technologies and they need help on choosing the right directions without disturbing their business itself where it's bringing them capital. Some of them they are in the case, some of them they are just flat or some of them they are growing too fast and they don't know how uh, how to manage the grow as well.

Speaker B: Got it, got it. Yeah it's a well it's more or less different let's say mindset but I think of course that is similar at the same time because it's a business at the end of the day right. So the, the basics are the same but maybe there is more the different mindset that this is a family owned business and maybe they just bootstrap it and, and is running the chip more type or something compared to the startup game which is like yeah go grow as fast as possible at least A few years back. I think right now we are coming to times where the numbers are as most important. Right. Like these basics are getting more and more important.

Speaker C: Traction is the hard numbers are very important for any evaluation which actually is quite good because the startups are becoming more humble in that they are not really overshooting like before. So we are not living in the world where the valuations are very inflated anymore. Even though in the US is different. But uh, yeah one thing that is missing here in the market in our region uh is the a bit of changing with switching of the mentality, shifting the mentality of the founders because here uh, I mean the founders are very cautious on the decisions they make which is good in a certain way. But in the other hand they need to become a bit more ambitious. They really need to go to with this you know, bigger picture mentality and not immediately but at least the vision has to be uh, know clear where they are going, you know to become a local player or uh, ultimately shifted from, from becoming from a startup to an SME. So this is something that, that is a bit missing. So, so in order for, for the region to have more unicorns or more really successful startups which they have uh. Ah they is because of that. It's the lack of a uh really um, I wouldn't say motivation but more like really the mentality to not to be more ambitious. Like you know us kids since they are little they have been imprinted in their mind that you go pick or go home or you have to go and get it. The winning mentality, that's something here uh in our region is missing a bit.

Speaker B: Yeah, we need to see more lemonade stands in family houses or stuff like that. Yeah, maybe you made me remind that uh, nearby my house in a corner there I think two kids which are these having these lemonade stand from time to time during summer.

Speaker D: That's great.

Speaker C: I mean supporting them is the best you can do. But you know, I mean the generations are changing now. The younger generations are becoming more aware of the world. Uh so they are becoming more ambitious. But you know uh, I think we are living in a really interesting uh time in this uh region especially with all the changes same the evolvements you know from uh, from AI or or quantum technology and anything to which is you know coming that um, that is really interesting period I would say.

Speaker B: Yeah. I was wondering if that was the reason why you joined to entity because. Yeah. What can you tell us about that? Because you mentioned that they are working towards healthcare and technologies associated to to this area. So yeah. Can you tell us what are your goals with this company or if you already have it because you are recently starting.

Speaker C: So maybe I'm quite fresh in the, in the position. But uh. One thing which actually it was the one of the main reasons why I decided to shift to this direction. It was one, it was that the market itself uh where they are very active is uh 70% uh plus uh of the clients are based in the US So we see a lot of things going on with their investment. Quite high investments in the enterprises which they are uh supporting entity supporting. They are well established and quite large. So the development over there is not so much about trying to build a startup with an mvp. It's actually building solutions and making the solutions work more efficient. And I like the fact that they are really much connected in the healthcare industry even though it's not the main uh business but it's one of the the the the the strongest one the case size I've seen they have built. They are just fascinating. Literally they are developing software that is saving lives and or preventing for diseases. And that is something that it kind of really goes very well connected with. My philosophy for my vision and what I want to do for myself in the future is uh. I want to be involved in, in, in anything that it makes the uh people to. To live longer, to live healthier, to live happier and to support uh the well being in general being involved in. The Star Guide has that philosophy as well. We are limited in the times that we are supporting the entrepreneurs which are at the beginning of the operations and building something great which is great and I'm very happy about it but could also do more from companies and enterprises which they already have the platform on how they can reach to more people in the technology which is building for them is actually helping immediately addressing those uh, uh those issues. And that is something that I find is extremely attractive for, for me to be involved with.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. So. And all the success with that. So because of course you are starting that journey now. So this is going to be big changes coming I assume right like all this process to enter into the company and uh guided into the this into this journey. I wanted to maybe maybe remark that maybe you can tell us a bit about 1 or 2 of the companies that you are the most excited that uh. It can be from your angel investing part or it can be with the busy phone. So is. Can you tell us a bit about one of those startups that you will want to see Maybe as A unicorn in the future. Yeah.

Speaker C: You, you, you ask me like, you know like to any parent you will ask who is your favorite kid? You know I would say all of them. No, but uh, I know what he meant. If it gets connected with where currently is my focus. Um, I would say at this moment making a really big impact in our portfolio apart from all the other ones which are obviously doing very good uh projects in the particular industries. Kerbal is one of the startups which I'm very happy we got involved uh quite early as well. Uh they are doing a great job up the guys. I like the fact because I have a personal connection to that because my sister in law in the U.S. uh she died because of cancer. It could have been if the technology was available at that time for early identification of these potential cancer cells for prevention, they could have uh, cure it or they could have have really treated much earlier. Unfortunately it was not the case and uh, she passed. So when Carebot present us their project and they were actually their mission was to help with the help of the technology and AI is to really help uh, um, doctors to radiologists to early identify some potential cancer cells uh, out of the X rays in mammographies. That kind of really to me was really a principle that I saw myself looking. We need to support this, this technology because literally it's going to help uh saving lives in the future. Prevention is quite crucial. I started Body Body because of uh, that you know I wanted to introduce uh healthy lifestyle to people which are not typically uh training or doing exercises. And I give them the access to that with the technology and the private studio with a personal trainer. It's also connecting to the well being to try to help people to live better uh in longer. So I would say these two are very much connected to uh, my philosophy, my mission that I have set for myself and what I want to take for the future as well is that we should be focusing on things that it makes to help people and not to kill people.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's an uh, important topic prevention and I think it's getting better and better but there is still a lot of work to do, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. It's a big space.

Speaker B: It's hard to measure and maybe that's one of the reasons why there is not that much investment into this. But of course it's improving more and more. Right. Like how to, how you measure that. If you, I don't know, do this Body Body exercise sessions, let's say then you are increasing the years of living that, that metric. I, I don't know if you have achieved something like those numbers, like trying to define those. It is something that you are trying to say.

Speaker C: Actually to be honest, we just introduced a new technology because the technology is evolving. Right? We have a new technology coming from um, one medical device called Symbiont. Symbiont is from the company Schwa Medical, uh, from uh Germany. So they've been building medical devices for already decades. One of the key um, reasons why we switched to this technology and started introducing to, to the market here. Uh and we want to expand with that body body longer, even farther is because they turn into data driven type of uh training. So we are not only sending impulses, electromasses, simulation to clients but there is also collecting data. This data will allow us to get a better, more understanding how the body is reacting to the exercises, uh the contractions to see where these balances are more visible and, and how to treat it better and how to improve the overall condition whether if you know how much life um, expenses. Is this going to be prolonged by doing that? Honestly I don't want to start shooting some numbers because it will be. I don't think it's um, wise for me to do. But uh, the overall we see a huge percentage of people who come to train in our studios. They reduce or eliminate completely back pain unless chronic or back pain. They need to go to a doctor. So that's one. Uh, others that they had had issues with some joints like uh, injuries in their knees and they needed to exercise in order not to have muscle atrophies or to have a better recovery and so on. So that we have seen a lot. And uh, obviously reducing of fat is one thing. Uh the aesthetics and how the overall condition has improved a lot for, for, for all our clients. So this is very visible and really we have some, some nice uh, data coming from that.

Speaker A: Great, great.

Speaker B: Yeah that's important to hear that. Yeah. We are being able now to read more and understand more how to measure this which will maybe increase the market and also of course more the interest because yeah it's now backed by some studies and, and data.

Speaker C: Right, exactly.

Speaker B: I will now move to the last part of our conversation so that we can close for today because we have been talking already more than 60 minutes I think but it's been really interesting and thanks for that. I wonder like yeah. What people has been influenced for you in your journey because coming from corporate to then taking the jump to founding which I assume it was not that simple or maybe you Were okay, you were really planning this or it was. Of course not every story have maybe these rose tinted glasses, right? Maybe. But yeah. So can you tell us maybe people who has influence around you that are not named Petter?

Speaker C: Yeah, no. I would say that my biggest influence was my father because I, I, you know, I'm from Bolivia. I grew up in Bolivia, but I grew up in a military uh, family. We've been moving every year or every two years from one city to another or one town to another. So I move around Bolivia quite a lot all my life. So wow. Changes for us. It was for my, my brothers and I, my siblings and I, it was not really something new because change from one town to another, to one school to another, building new friendships and so on, it become uh, very normal to us. Therefore, when I moved to UAE and then I uh, met my wife there and then I moved here to Czech Republic, to me was this change. It was really not um, a shock entirely shocked even though it was because language was very difficult and other things. But uh, I was very, I was built to be able to cope with this type of uh, changing of environment and situations that it was actually the what the I would say, the feature I would say or skill that was introduced since early, early days of my life that being able to, to accommodate to situations and uh, pivot and take them and make the most of it of that it was something that I learned. It was part of my genes as to say and that helped me when I work in corporate and how I grow in the corporate and the changing from one, from one job to another. Starting my, my entrepreneurship life and yeah and again investing into a startup. So I'm able to switch from one idea to another one because you know, I have become more dynamic because of that. So I would say yeah, the biggest influence to me was uh, that there was. I grew up um, in a military family thanks to my dad and my dad was very, very strict to us and uh, teach us very, to you know, to follow certain rules in our life in order to really uh, achieve uh, uh, results.

Speaker B: Well yeah, that's um. Your father was training you to be a startup founder without him knowing that. But yeah, that's interesting that we can reflect now in, inside that something that maybe in that moment I assume it was not happy moving around maybe at the beginning. Right. Because they have friends or whatever.

Speaker C: But we didn't know different. We didn't know different. So for us it was quite normal. So basically I, I still have uh, childhood friends but those which I uh, friends I call friends. They are actually other kids of um, military families because we all experience the same situation. So from time to time we meet after five years in a different setup, a different city or a different town and so on. So we share that experience that we needed to be moving and we all were the new guys in the school every time. So yeah, in that, you know, because it becomes so normal that uh, you don't really see any, you don't know anything different than that. You know, like here, uh, my wife, she have friends from the childhood. Um, from kindergarten and then primary school, school, secondary, university. You know, they, they, they know from all m their lives. I know people, they have never left Jablonets or Prague. You know. Now more young people travel, but they haven't left and moved to any anywhere else to experience different culture or life. Very few of them, they do that. So yeah, I think uh, this is a, a bit of a uh, superpower I would say, because you are able to adapt in change very quickly.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I think it's migration and of course moving all around, even in the same country that already give you this power of pivot. Right. Like um, adaptability as you mentioned. And I was wondering since you have traveled a lot and you mentioned so I could use some guidance towards where to go next in Latin America or in Bolivia or in US or where. What are your favorite places in the US or in Bolivia that maybe someone can recommend. So since someone can visit since thanks to your recommendation.

Speaker C: Wow. You know, it's hard to say because uh, Bolivia is very uh, enigmatic uh country. You know, it's very attractive for many people to, for many travelers. Uh, it has a really beautiful um, nature culture. Uh, I would say, you know, you are also from, from South America but uh, Bolivia because of the connect the connection to the uh, culture itself. The Incas uh region is quite untouched in certain regions. Um, so it's about uh, 70% of the population which is indigenous still and the other 30 ah, percent is mixed uh race. So you really see a lot of culture over there, colors. And um, you know, Bolivia is a multination, uh country. Uh so you have people from the Andes and then you have from the tropicals and the jungle, uh from the north and south. They are different tribes, different languages. We speak multi languages there. You know, Quechua, Mara Warani, Spanish. They are the official languages in Bolivia. So I would say that this is quite interesting place to go. You cannot see it in a couple of weeks if you really want to experience the culture and what it offers. You need to travel longer than that and visit, really make a tour around that because you get to see from the mountains to the Lake Iticaca, Salaro do Uni. You can go down to the um, Amazon to the tropical, subtropical and tropical part, which is really amazing. Amazing. Um, by all Latin in general is really beautiful. Um, I was lucky enough that I traveled as well through the Patagonia, Chile, Argentina, uh, together with my wife and also with some friends uh, afterwards and motorcycles. So I would recommend to take a tour in Latam, but not a couple of weeks, but to take some time off I would say for any student from the university. Before you starting a job, take a six month break and travel wherever you will go. Travel, just travel six months before you starting a job or if you are about to get married before you get married, travel or to go with your spouse, with your uh, significant other and do that uh, because uh, once you settle it becomes difficult. So traveling uh, is a huge uh, school for the mind and spirit.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if that was your, your test or if you wanted to come to the Czech Republic. You needed to travel with your wife before, before being married to uh, in Latin America. So that was quite the test between you guys.

Speaker C: Yes, actually. Actually that test us a lot to be honest. We met in the U.S. right. So both of us, we were in a, ah, in a foreign country speaking a foreign language. So it was a quite good setup for us because we are in a neutral place. But uh, actually traveling, we were backpacking for five months in Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile. During that time we actually managed to bond so much because we went through all sort of situations, you know, camping, backpacking, uh, trekking, uh, hitchhiking and whatnot. So that really built our uh, a really great foundation in our relationship. Uh, that's why um, I decided to follow and come here to the Czech Republic. Um, so I was the souvenir coming here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I thought that you will always have your point, going to the Czech Republic forever since you were in Bolivia or something.

Speaker A: Really?

Speaker C: Not really. It never crossed my mind to be honest. I didn't even know uh, exactly where Prague was. I knew about Czechoslovakia uh, because my father gave me one rifle, uh, made in Czechoslovakia for hunting. Uh, and that was when I was a teenager. So that was my only connection to this side of the world. Um, and you know also the whole Europe has been changing so much earlier. The early days and the early the M household 80s and whatnot. So it was really, it was never my plan. My Plan was I have family in the US So I had a connection to that. So I was going to US back and forth, visiting my grandfather, my uncles and so on. So I never thought I would be moving to Europe. Uh, it was purely because of uh, you know, I met my significant other from uh, Jablonets and uh, I decided to, to, to come and visit and, and see what it's like, you know, to conquer Europe.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So the Inca um, empire coming back to Europe.

Speaker C: Good, good.

Speaker B: Yeah that's, that's interesting. So last two points for now it's like. Yeah. And in the Czech Republic, what are your hobbies and stuff that you recommend people to do while running their businesses? Because to keep the mental health as well I assume is important nowadays in general.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Well, uh, if you are an entrepreneur, you know, it's 24 7, it's very hard, uh, it's extremely hard work to do. But you need to also find uh, some time to do something for yourself. So I guess all the Czech people knows what Czech Republic is famous because of their, their beer culture. That, that's really, really important. I think the social life and what they offer Czech Republic in general for, for any expats, uh, or, or young um. Ah. Ent. Young people in general is very affordable. So it's great. Today you can socialize quite well here. I would definitely recommend to do some uh, sports activity. Czech Republic is quite famous for. To having a lot of sportsmen uh, in such a small country and you know in this limited population they really are able to export such a great quality of sportsmen. Um so cycling is beautiful, rock climbing is great. And come to body. Body.

Speaker B: That's the perfect combination maybe. Ah, all these complementary.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: Thanks for sharing that. Are you skiing as well or are you good on it?

Speaker C: Coming from Bolivia, you will be surprised. I'm actually come from a uh, skiing family. You know my, my, my uncle in the U. US he was a ski instructor. He actually was um, representing Bolivia three times at the Olympics. Olympics.

Speaker A: Wow. Wow.

Speaker C: So yeah, I, I can consider, I consider myself a quite okay skier. Not on the level of, of him or. But uh, yeah I really like and enjoy downhill skiing. My wife loves the cross country ski. Something I'm not really keen and not really didn't really got me much but I, I like uh. Downhill ski.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. I need to. I have tried only downhill skiing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But I am basically doing it on the baby slope because I've been doing like only three or four times already and like few years back when I started to try it. It was more, less, let's say Gabares, but I just tried like one year ago or uh, well, I just went to Austria a few, few weeks back. There was this time I was with the baby slow because also my son. But then one year before I was going to the top of the mountain or not to the top, but certain altitude and I didn't have the courage to go because it's like I didn't feel I did it before. Like the first time I went to the top and even started falling a lot. But now I wasn't like, well, I don't really want to fall down. So I just took the skis and go down walking. So I was like, okay.

Speaker C: Have you taken lessons? Do you have instructors?

Speaker B: No, no, I just do it with my wife just for fun. Right. But yeah, I need to take the lessons.

Speaker C: If you really want to learn it and do it right, I recommend, definitely go with instructor. Learn with instructor. And, and I, I will recommend for you guys not to teach, not to teach directly to your kids to ski, but get the instructor to teach them. It's different, uh, it's absolutely different when somebody else is teaching them and teaching you, you because you have a much bigger uh, respect to the learning process and you get to learn better specific techniques and everything. Yeah. And skiing is great. I mean it's one of the m, uh most uh, amazing sports. I mean we should uh, take advantage while we can. You know, if there's still some snow.

Speaker B: Yeah. So you need to open a climate tech fund as well.

Speaker C: Oh, those are, those are already exist and I know they are doing a great job and uh, definitely is really important.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: Is there anything that maybe you want to close for today for final words that uh, you consider are important for startup founders and or investors that thanks to your experience,

Speaker C: uh, I mean for startup founders, I mean my biggest recommendation is not to be afraid of asking for help either to your investors or people from the industry, people who have done it or who are um, in the same industry. They will be happy to share uh, their experiences and help you, you know, and this is, it will take you really big, uh, you know, big distance just to have uh, people who, who believe in you and uh, who want to really help you grow. Uh, and for investors, I would say if you are an angel investor, don't just household, don't just do private equity and buy some shares, put the work as well and help the founder. That's the biggest, uh, support. The biggest return comes from the startups actually growing and scaling. And if you are part of it and if you are able to support them in the beginning with the right setup and conditions, it will bring you really great returns.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you very much. Sam, how can people follow up if they want to, uh, continue talking to you? What do you prefer for people to connect with you?

Speaker C: LinkedIn.

Speaker D: LinkedIn.

Speaker C: LinkedIn is the best tool. I don't really, I'm not really active in any other social media saying, uh, yeah, happy to support. I'm limited with time, but I'm happy to, to, to, to help and talk with anyone when I can, when it's possible. So, yeah, thank you very much for having me and inviting me for this. This, uh, podcast is great. My first, first podcast that I'm part of it. So I hope it becomes an interesting topic for you and for your listeners.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course. It was great conversation and thanks for sharing all your experience and knowledge. Yeah, I can guarantee I will be useful because all these years are kind of condensed here. But that took you years, right, baby?

Speaker C: Yes, yes, many years. I hope one day it will be interesting enough to write something to read it.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: So thank you. Send. We keep talking and all the best in your journey. Uh, now with also the software company and of course all your investments that they can bring the 10x returns that we all expect in the VC world.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much, uh, Ricardo and pleasure and happy to join any other podcast you might have in the future.

Speaker B: Of course. Uh, thank you and see you around.

Speaker C: See ya. Bye.

Speaker B: Thank you very much for joining us. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and gained valuable insights. Feel free to share with your friends and looking forward to seeing you next time.

Speaker C: Sam.