#68: From building Twigsee to empowering the next generation of entrepreneurs | Talk with Vanda Seidelova - Founder @ Twigsee, Co-Founder @ BeNextOne

Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Opera sky podcast. My name is Ricardo Monegas and I will be your host on this podcast. We would like to share valuable knowledge, lessons learned and stories from entrepreneurs, investors and managers while running their businesses. We strive to ask the right questions and uh, discover insight from our guests so you can apply them in your business and life right after each episode. Thanks for joining us and let's get started. Hi everyone. Today we are talking with Vanda Saidlova. She is the founder of Tweetsie and for anyone who doesn't know what is Twixie is an, um, edutech company working towards having the kindergarten of the pocket of the parents and of course the people working in the kindergartens is a, uh, communication app and more stuff that of course Banda will, will be telling us and how to keep control of, of the nurseries. So welcome Vanda. Uh, I, I know I told you I wouldn't make you a question about how are you, but of course I will do it. But then after that I will make you another more interesting question than this, but.

Speaker B: Hello. Nice, Nice to be here. Thank you very much for, uh, invite.

Speaker A: Just. Just before we. We were uh, entering to record, you were mentioning that you were running from the traffic. Right. Um, so I was wondering if you have any small win from today, apart from leaving the traffic and arriving to the podcast.

Speaker B: It's actually the biggest win of today. I made it here on time and I can be with you and uh, with anyone who is listening. Uh, but yeah, apart from that, uh, I seen a, uh, very interesting house today, actually, uh, that I was going to visit. Um, and possibly it might be one of the places where we want to organize some camps for students and young entrepreneurs. Um, so, uh, it's not of course decided yet, but I'm very optimistic. It looks good. So this is small, tiny win before, um, before actually next steps happen.

Speaker A: Good. Yeah, that's always good to remember those small wins that for the big goals that you have at the moment. Right. So we can go step by step. Of course we will put a ping into that big goal that you are currently working on at the moment. But I know that I introduced you as a founder of Twitchy, which is a company you exited, uh, a few months or years ago already. How long has it been?

Speaker B: It's, um, altogether I exited, uh, now it's three months ago, so quite recently. But I already did a merger with a, uh, big competitor of ours two years ago. Exactly. And um, yeah, then I was doing the transition period. We were uh, doing the post merger integration of the systems or of the, of the teams and of the agendas. And I finally exited fully the company in uh, December last year.

Speaker A: Good. I was wondering, so how do you introduce yourself at this point when you go, what are, what are your current plans after exiting this company?

Speaker B: Now I'm collecting, collecting titles. Right. But uh, usually I say exited founder because somehow this is um, this is what uh, people like to hear. Uh, and yeah of course it's a lot of lesson learned on that way. And I'm also a mentor investor. Um, it's a new role for me but uh, it's uh, great to be able to give back and to support other young entrepreneurs and um, otherwise apart from the let's say titles, I see myself as of course mom because I have a 9 year old son and I am visionary in EdTech and how the education should change, um, together with innovations and um, I believe this is one of my role actually I have even the official title innovator, um, because I was um, rewarded uh, innovator 20 uh, award which was basically list of 20. The most innovative people of the Czech Republic uh, of 2020. Yeah, they're very like awesome names. Um, and I somehow happen to be there. So technically I have also title for this one.

Speaker A: Good, good. Well it looks like you will keep innovating in education. So it looks like you decided that this is your let's say life purpose, if we can say saying in that way. Right. Um, but so I was wondering before we go into the future, I want to travel on time and go back to the start and. Yeah. What is, what inspired you to, to start Twixies? It was because of your song or it was. What was the reason of that?

Speaker B: Yeah, it was for sure that I had sun at the time in the kindergarten. And um, I was hoping to suggest to my kindergarten some tool that could um, help me to see actually what is happening in the kindergarten. Because um, we are now talking about 2019 let's say. And until that time I was practically all the time with my son or when he was with nanny. I had photos and everything and suddenly my son went to the kindergarten and after like couple of hours he was there. Uh, and I didn't have any inputs from uh, or any information from the kindergarten. And that day uh, I asked my son what did you do today? And he said I don't know or nothing. And so he couldn't tell me because the small kids they don't remember. And I uh, realized I'm not the only One who is having this problem, especially when the kids are really small. And um, also there were many agendas that were happening, communication channels and so on. So I wanted to just suggest to my kindergarten, uh, some platform to use. And I realized that there is actually none that would be working as what I imagine should be not fancy but standard in the digital era and 21st century. And yeah, so this is how it all started. And I really planned to have it in the beginning as kind of like small, possibly small company that will handle uh, tens of preschools, maybe mainly uh, ours and then comes all the others. Uh, but uh, yeah, uh, we found out that it's a huge potential in the market and the need is there and it was really hunger uh for such a system. So ah, in the end it was five years of full time era for me and for the team.

Speaker A: Good. And can you tell us a bit how was that moment when you decide well I will build this because maybe at the beginning was kind of exploratory to see if there was an opportunity or maybe talk to us. What is the mindset you have? Because I think you have some marketing background before, right? So how did you approach your uh, start of that journey let's say?

Speaker B: That's excellent question. I mean my background is uh, diplomacy actually. So I studied international relations and diplomacy. But yes, you're right. I was also working in uh, some C level in um, marketing and basically uh business development. And with this mindset I was uh thinking that it's really necessary to do the homework which I absolutely suggest anyone who is listening. So if you, if you want to do the project you should really do the homework before because more you invest into the preparation phase, uh, better result you can get of course. But also you can really avoid a lot of mistakes especially like uh, that will cost a lot of time and money. So uh, first of all I put together kind of like list that which was semi intuitive and semi. Basically I googled what should be done before you do business I believe. And uh, it's really. It was like 10 lists. The list of 10 things that if they were uh, happening and they were confirmed, I would say okay, it's done deal, I should really do it. First of all I was checking the market like how many preschools is even in the Czech Republic? So um, I seen that it's uh, around 6,000 preschools which is not bad for such a small country. It's kind of logic because we have of course around um, 10% uh, of population, uh below the age of nine right. So um, I saw this then I was checking the competition, uh, I was checking the need. So I was trying to do some surveys, um, and I was talking to a lot of potential clients. I needed to know what would be the technological solution. So I drafted a specification, uh, and I went to some companies for how much they would do this MVP for me. Then I had to go to bank, like I had some savings but I didn't have enough. So I had to ask banks like if I wanted to, to do such a project, would you loan me. And they pre approved like okay, we would loan you this money. Um, so I saw that financing would be solved and uh, so it was kind of like happening. And um, I still had this feeling that it's a really huge step, it's a lot of money, it's changing of career and uh, it's a very risky because if I fail, it's just, you know, my trouble at that time and I would lose there all the money and time and everything. Um, for me it felt like it would be much more uh, comfortable if I actually managed to have the paying customer before I had the product. And I was thinking that theoretically it could be done right like people do. People buy a car and pay for it and then wait until it comes right. So I created a PowerPoint presentation and I went to the schools and I tried to pitch it and they were having the real great questions. Uh, some of them I could answer and some of them I couldn't. And suddenly I had a deal and I had a second deal. I was honest to them. I said we would have it in a couple of weeks. Um, and yeah, ah, I had two pre orders within the first week which was awesome. And so I gave it a go. Uh, and we started to build it and because it was completely prepared with everything what we needed, uh, we did the mvp. Then in six weeks and seventh week we were on the market with yeah, of course, uh, what is now the derivation of the final product but. Or of the current product as you know it. But uh, yeah, this is, this was the very start.

Speaker A: Wow, that sounds great that you were doing the pre sales and of course you as business development, you know about these ideas, right? Because if you are an IT person then, then you will just jump and start coding and doing something.

Speaker B: But oh yeah, that was my uh, it was my advantage in this case actually I have to say because I was always thinking that it's a big disadvantage that I can do a lot of things but I cannot program to be a founder of Technological company when you're a non technological founder. I was really thinking that it's big flaw because I said like ah, I could do this by myself but I just don't have the skill. But in the end I realized that it's actually um, advantage uh, because first of all I could do the other things. Like I could uh, do HR and finance and sell and um, fundraising and at some point and like all of this basically to run the company and yeah especially bringing money and bringing clients. Uh, and I could outsource and uh, hire some people to help me with the technological part. But if you are, if, because if you are a founder at some point and I guess everyone who is already founder experienced it, that uh, usually as a founder you have quite close to the product because this is your passion. Like whatever you do, if you make shoes for some reason maybe you like it or uh, uh you either like design or you like to make it. Yeah. But you're like, you like to be close to the product and you like to be close to the clients. Of course, because this is why you do it. Um, but at some point when the company grows, you as a CEO, uh, fortunately or unfortunately I cannot say it's a matter of perspective. But you also have to grow with the company. And the CEO of a company of three people has different duties than CEO of the company of 30 people or 300 people. Right. So you have to be growing and basically you are losing the agendas that you like and you are gathering agendas that you don't like that much. But that must be done. And this is the CEO's job. And if you are already technical person you are sometimes having much bigger like um, much harder time to let go uh, of the product and of the actual coding because this is what you love and what you know how to do. And it's much harder shift to do sales and uh, fundraising and spreadsheets and all of these things. P and L. So I suggest to everyone if um, they do technology, um, so that they are ideally two founders let's say and uh, one is uh, the person who knows how to do the product or is close to the product or basically has the industry expertise. And then one who is the business development person basically. And uh, he or she can then uh, do the either operations or really the sales and, and uh, how from the technology make a package that has a name and price and audience or um, clients let's say and how to sell it and what are the streams to sell. And um, of course as a Company also what duties you have and how to pay taxes and how to hire people and how to make them happy in your company. And so um, all of these agendas are same, important as sales because as sorry as a product because product without the other things will be for nothing. But also if you have everything else but you don't have nothing to sell, it's also for nothing. Right. So these two teams should work really. And I think when you have a jackpot, uh, to have a uh, founder's team that one is more focused on this and one is more focused on this. This. That's good.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was wondering about that. So did you find co founders to join or you just hire some initial team or an agen. So how was your experience into that initial stages of your company?

Speaker B: Uh yeah, you caught me. Because of course now I'm super smart and clever with these advices but I'm talking from my own mistakes what I didn't really manage. Right, exactly.

Speaker A: That's good to know as well because everyone you believe wow, this person have achieved this. But of course is after all the mistakes that.

Speaker B: So uh. Well um, what I did is that I had people who were uh, basically my partners or were cooperating with me on some um, project we did before. It was kind of like hobby project and they were having or they still are having a small studio for it development. So uh, I invited them to be on board to help uh us with the um, backend part because they are not doing the apps but the backend. So I gave them uh little shares but it was mainly kind of like ease up level uh in a way that uh, it was replacing part of the salary. Uh but they didn't have to take all the full scope of role of co founders because with the co founding of course comes the hard parts and the hustle and uh, we uh agreed that they wanted to really focus on their part which means the programming and so and so it was great. They were there from the very beginning and they are still staying in a company. Um, but they were really minority shareholders like ah, single uh persons. Um and then I basically gave some ESOP shares to uh, key employees as they were coming. So I had one like uh co founder, uh, like late co founder or minority co founder uh for sales uh and business development. It was amazing. Uh, and he was great. He was with us until the merger. Um, um but technically uh it was kind of ESOP level. Ah so I still was responsible for everything. They didn't have to bring money on the table if they were needed because we were bootstrapping so they didn't invest cash uh into the company. And so so actually I was a single founder as with the full scope of uh, agendas and I don't recommend it. It's like uh, because it's very lonely work. It's first thing like. And I have to say I was lucky because uh, my uh, partner from the team actually was helping me a lot with like being able to discuss the strategies. And so. So he was really stepping in for this because I, I needed it. Um, but also uh. It's full of responsibility is on you and you kind of uh, if something happens to you or uh, when you are ill or when you want to go on holidays, um, when the company still is early stage or quite like first years. The role of founder is so significant that it's a lot of pressure on you as well. And um, not only pressure but also you are becoming bottleneck of everything which I never like to be. But uh, there's so many agendas that in the end end up with you uh, and you should have the last word for. So um, actually uh, if there were two people you could maybe uh, reshuffle the company a little later. But at some point we really needed to structure the organization with uh, compliance model and uh, we really needed to focus on the fact that if I'm suddenly not there, uh, what will happen with different agendas and that there must be substitution. So we did this rati metrics. Um and uh, one quarter we decided that we will do kind of like Vandalas company. So what will happen if Vanda is not there? And in second quarter um, we did anyone less company so that what if anyone disappears? Like it shouldn't be that the passwords are somewhere with some person or whatever like um, some processes. So we did a little bit of tidying within the company and really helped us to also grow to the next level.

Speaker A: Okay, that sounds amazing. Although I assume that it's good to say in hindsight, right? Because I assume in those moments it was difficult to achieve. And I was wondering since you were also having your role as a mother, right plus entrepreneurship. So how was looking your days in those moments? How were you able to handle this in some way? Because well, even myself right now I have a three years old son. And as a father as well as struggle. But of course as a mother, of course you have more. Maybe at these early ages the kids have more attachment to the mom. So it's a bit tricky as well to try to balance Career, Uh, uh,

Speaker B: I was really feeling for a long time that I'm failing in both. Like, that I'm not a good mother. I'm not a good CEO, because obviously you cannot be on two places at the same time. Um, so my best friend was calendar. I had to really be strict on, uh, like blocks and calendar and time management. Um, I was already, from very beginning, super honest, uh, about the fact that of course, everyone knew that I'm mom and, uh, that the time with my son is super important for me and it should be, uh, important for any parent. So. So, um, I had the blockers, like, uh, in the afternoons when I would be picking up earlier, and I would put there. Everyone could see, uh, my calendar completely. Like, we had to open calendars throughout the company. So I was putting there, like, zoo with my son, Wednesday afternoon, whatever, 2 o'. Clock. And, um, I was telling people, look, it's nice weather, right? So we go now, and then I will make my deal, um, in the evening, and I suggest it to everyone. But of course it was. It was, uh, very complicated. Also, what was not super easy was that, uh, we got these hits as everyone who was, uh, doing business at the time. So we got a hit of COVID Suddenly all of the preschools were closed. We were like, what to do? Right after a year on the market. So he didn't know what we will do. And no one wanted to pay, of course. And so we somehow hustled. Yeah, A year later, I started. I was divorcing. So it was also very complicated time personally, which was, yeah, like, for. For my son, of course, but for me, for whole family. But luckily we managed to really, uh, handle it, let's say, as adults, I would say. And we realized that we will always be parents. Uh, so the fact that we break up in, let's say, romantic relationship, we will never break up as people, as friends and as parents. So. So we managed to, uh, set it up. But. So, of course, emotionally it was very difficult. But also it gave me some time when Fili was with his father. So actually I could work really a lot because suddenly I had some times in the week, uh, that I wasn't 100% time with my son. And yeah, we were hustling somehow, to be honest, like, looking backwards. It's always like, probably everyone is asking how we made it. And I don't know, maybe, uh, the good trade in a way is like, you have to make it. Like, there is no way not to make it. So you just fail forward and suddenly you look Back and you say, oh, it's been five years that I was kind of like not having it under control and fail forward, but it's been five years. So you actually achieved something somewhere.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's signals like the plan B is to make word the plan A as well. Right. Something like, um, I was wondering as well, um, of course you pass all these challenges, which personally, of course that's of course maybe bad. Of course. But now you are in a better position hopefully. Right. Um, and also I was wondering about fundraising because you said at the beginning that you were thinking this project as a small business in that moment. So when was the moment that you decided, well, I need fundraising? It was because you consider you needed to hire more people or. And yeah. And how was your thinking towards fundraising? Because, uh, I am. I don't know if you have previous experience with that. You can tell me. And yeah, how was the mindset into that moment?

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, well, I think I've never been uh, like true startupist in the mindset, like in fast iterations and challenging status quo and all of this. I'm definitely startup best, but I think I've never been the true startupist of let's say 2020, 2021 when everyone was kind of hustling towards valuation of. Valuation of valuation. And I even didn't understand really how they calculated that you have free money pre product idea for being unicorn. I was like, how? Like, tell me how, because I don't know. So I was always actually on the other part of the scheme M, um, that uh, building sustainable businesses that make money and at some point at least will be profitable. Uh, it helped me also when then the markets were shifting and you know, the bubble popped in 2022 I believe, and suddenly it was like crash, that all the valuations went 80% down or M many valuations that um. So it was. The markets were corrected. So actually um, the fundraising I did only after year end, um, year end something. So after maybe 15 months, um, the first money I had to put there, and it was not a small amount of money actually it was um, around 3 million crowns I had to put there. Uh, which was really a lot of money. It's usually the ticket of angel investor. So, uh, partially I had some money and partially as I mentioned, I loaned it for, from the bank and um, I managed to uh, have money for one year of employees. I didn't pay myself anything but of course I had to pay my colleagues. As I told you, they were getting some uh, cut on the shares. So I Could give them for the beginning like a little lower salary, but still I had to pay them. Um, and those that didn't have this esop, I had to pay like fully. Um, and of course we had to pay for the technology and m. So we outsourced the app with Adustra. Was the company very well known, very expensive, but very, very good in uh, quality. And I was thinking, I cannot risk now to have some non quality version of something that it will crash and I will lose all the clients. So I decided this is why I did this homework because for me it was a really big commit. And after a year we were standing in front of the decision, what's next? Whether we bootstrap like this. And you can make the simple mathematics like you have the monthly costs of depends of course how big you are. But at the time we maybe had like 200,000 crowns a month. Uh, and you are making 50, uh, thousand. Uh, because unfortunately preschools were paying, yeah, basically like B2C, uh software as a service. They were paying like 1,000, 2,000 crowns a month. Um, after a year I believe that we were still like in big uh, delta difference. And we were thinking like okay, we can bootstrap, I can still pump there a little bit more money. But we will only be hiring people that we can afford. So we'll be limited in our growth. Or we will actually calculate like if we loan money because in my case the investment is like a loan even though it's investment. Right. But I always felt uh, the duty to give it back, uh, when we one day sell the company and uh, the investors, their financial investors, they will need to have some upside or some multiple. So I was calculating how much money we actually need so that we are break even with these higher costs. We would hire some people and how much we want to sell thanks to this. And basically the difference, this delta, this triangle, is how much you need. Sometimes people say like ah, v Funcha is like 1 billion euros. It's like, how did you come to this? Ah, I don't know. But what if I give you 200,000? Oh yeah. So it's also fine. Yeah, so it's. You shouldn't have it like this. You should really know where you want to put it.

Speaker A: The plan.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this bulk sum should bring you from some point to some point and you should calculate exactly how you get there. Um, we made a decision as a team that we will uh, bring someone to help us with this delta. And we chose uh, Yerka Hlabenka. So basically we Approached him directly because I really honor him from his expertise and uh, his approach. He was um, the person who supported Kiwi in the very beginning, uh, and so on. And of course he is now tens of investments and he's very experienced entrepreneur himself. Um, so I approached him and after some kind of course negotiations, uh, we made a deal. So I was not really fundraising in a sense, um, of VC hustling or something like that. Uh, and also I believe that this could be ideally, uh, the version of everyone, because we were technically we didn't need to fundraise. And I think that fundraising, you should do it in the moment when you don't need it, because then you are well off, you don't have time pressure, you are showing probably like healthy numbers. And of course like smaller Runway, you would have if you're actually burning money or in some trouble, if you are, or if you're. Yeah, of course Runway is uh, reaching its point and so on. These are the moments where investors will understand it and they might help you, but it will cost you a lot of equity so that they save you or they help you really because you need it. So I would say to always, and maybe it's my diplomatic training, um, it's always better to come uh, from the strong position. Ideally both sides should be well off and in the end they will or they should make a deal which is win, win for both sides. It will be compromise, but it will not be, uh, that someone was pushed into the corner because it's not healthy for anyone to having investor. It's, it's more than merit. You cannot break it that easily. Uh, you, you are stuck together for some time and uh, ideally you should be able to uh, approach problems because they will come. It's. In any relationship problems will come. Uh, but uh, it will show you how you guys are ready to uh, deal with them together. And this is what, what matters. Um, so if I may suggest, they say if you are actually building a startup that uh, is fundraising, uh, if you want to or have to, you need more, um, cash flow, uh, then I would say fundraise, take a week break and basically start to fundraise again. Because you will have plenty of time and strong position to do it. Of course you should have the team who will start to deliver what you promised that you will do with the money. But it shouldn't be you, you should start to actually focus on the next fundraising. But this is from the theoretical level because I never did it this way. Um, and if you don't have to Fundraise then of course you are not losing the equity, you're not losing freedom in a way, uh, you can do what you want. So I really see the magic in this part as well.

Speaker A: And you would recommend because you mentioned that you started fundraising one year after you have let's say a product. So you, you were considering you have some early ideas of product market feed in that moment. So that you were kind of sure that okay, this kind of scale or you, you were still in doubts towards product market fitness.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah, you exactly named, uh was the feeling that we proved the product market fit. I was quite sure about it when we saw the traction in the beginning that it was really the clients had interest in it. And very quickly we actually shifted the product from let's say nice to have communication app between parents and preschool, let's say teachers and preschool management towards the schools were addressing us and say look, it's super nice that you are dealing with this um, communication part. We really like it. But we actually still have to handle trillion of other agendas such as attendance and payments and menus and all the other things. And they said shouldn't you or don't you want to do it as well? And we really wasn't sure because it's like Pandora box, right? You open it, you cannot really do it halfway. Like if you say we are compliant with some legislation because it's education, it's regulated, you cannot do it. Like yeah, we are kind of there, but not really, uh, so you either do it or not. And in the end we decided to do it after six, even less four months. And it was wow, it was like of course it was hell because there was so much paperwork that preschools actually have to have digital or not digital, but they have to have like the agendas that we started to go through one by one and to really understand how this uh, everything works and how to free their hands. But also it attracted new clients. Not only the, let's say premium private preschools, but also the, the huge state pre schools that um, didn't have to fight for clients means parents but who actually were super overwhelmed by the paperwork and we were really saving their day uh, by this. So it was great. And after a year we've seen that we proved all types of preschools. We are managing to catch uh, up um, or yeah keep up with the legislation needs. Um, we can calculate like how much does it take to get from here to here, what is the customer acquisition cost. We could of course only guess what will be the lifetime Value. But in our theory in edtech sector in general, um, if you have school information system and if you get the client and you don't really screw it up, you will keep them forever because they have all the data there and they will not really change you easily. And all of these things were kind of being proved one by one. So uh, after that year I was very sure that the product market fit is there. And um, we were also able to actually calculate some parts of the costs with. Yeah, quite precisely. Of course we were still learning, um, what could be the ways of how to sell faster and more efficiently. This was, I would say we are learning until now it was never ending, uh, process. Um, and ideally how to have everything digital and um, in um, bi. And we were really good with dashboards. I like to watch them every day. How, um, how what clients we have in which stage and so on. So it was great. Um, but uh, yeah, of course this is um, I would say for fundraising these parts should be ideally um, proofed because then you have much stronger position for uh, for talking to anyone.

Speaker A: Exactly, yeah. And um, how do you feel was the initial traction going? Because, uh, I've been working before with also in. Well it was more about the hospitality sector. But also I know the kindergartens also have of course Sun Canteen and they were having of course problems with food waste in that context. And this is a Norwegian startup I was working with. Um, but then of course to close a deal with a municipality, of course it could take months if not years compared to of course with a private company. So how was your experience into deciding that ideal customer from your perspective?

Speaker B: Same, same. I have to say, um, that it's interesting perspective actually. What was. Or uh, what is Twixie? Right, so we tended to say we are B2B2C. Uh, because basically we were selling to the kindergarten, basically to the director of the kindergarten, someone who was deciding for the kindergarten. Uh, but then through them we had a lot of like customers in a way because the users were there. Yeah, the parents and the teachers, they kind of got it as you have to. So we were never, especially in the beginning, we were not approaching directly, uh, the teachers and we were. Or the parents because we were very much aware that we need to connect all of these parts and basically have the buy in from all sides. Because imagine like the director say, uh, we will use this software, but if the teachers never fill in any content and even if you have parents there and there is nothing in the app, like no content, it's empty. But platform they will never use it. Or if the teachers really try hard, but parents never log in. That's also not working. Yeah. So uh, we needed to do the buy into all three parts. But for the sales, um, uh, are B2B. But technically you can imagine that it's like B2G almost. So because some of them are regulated, some of them depends really one by one whether the director has uh, the right to actually do this decision themselves or if they have to have some approval. It's really, it's not based on legislation. It's based on like best practice of that one concrete kindergarten. Especially in the beginning we were starting with uh, premium like private uh, preschools. Very often, uh, multi language preschools. It was great because uh, we were serving in many languages and um, they saw it as um, another service for their parents. So competitive advantage against the kindergarten which was next door and so on. So that was great. When we shifted to the state schools, um, they didn't need to care so much about attracting parents because basically they were overloaded already. They had like wait list of hundred more kids that they cannot accommodate. So this argument was not working really. Um, for them was much more about saving some energy on the paperwork and especially uh, eliminating errors and mistakes they could make if they do it manually. Uh, but to them we had to really explain a lot. Uh because uh, they had a feeling and they had a theoretically right feeling that whatever we said we will help you with this, we will deal with this. They said yeah, but we already do this. We already mark attendances and we already um, store somewhere the photos. And we were trying to say exactly. So this is what we are uh, bringing you. We are not bringing you new agendas that you need to start to do abc, but we are looking at the things, how you do them and make them more efficient and more connected so that you do this step once and it will be uh, plugged to all the other systems and uh, the data will transfer. Right. And um, a sales process for uh, such a client could take even a year. Um, I would say average. We had like four months, which is still quite a lot. Uh, and usually it was like three touchpoints, uh altogether with them like direct. Of course before they. I don't calculate now like uh, marketing and so, but actually like meetings and so usually three touch points. Uh, but after this time you have the organization uh, with sales cycle as B2G. Uh, but they pay you as B2C as I mentioned. Yeah, they pay you what, €50 per month, uh, average. So suddenly it's yeah, you don't make a deal that you would get €100,000 out of this effort. So especially in the beginning and in edtech and especially in Europe or central Eastern Europe, it's very complicated to persuade governmental institutions and uh, schools and so to actually pay for some technologies. But it's getting better. Yeah. We really had to work hard to try to persuade them and I believe it will take more generation to shift this mindset.

Speaker A: Got it, got it. Well hopefully it's uh, at least improving a step by step and coming to a best.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I want to now move more towards now the Exit. So how was that thinking of the exit? It was that you wanted to move to Spain and spend more time in the beach or what was the idea about the exit from your side? Or of course get a payday after all this hard work. And yeah, how was the, the idea of partnering with. With Baccalaureate I think is the name of the company, right?

Speaker B: Yes, yes. Actually Exit was uh, not planned think in the beginning. I mean technically I know that uh, it's. We are building company and at some point um, I will also reach some limits within the company as far as we can bring it. Uh, but uh, we were not there yet and I was still very like I have the energy. So it was not that I would like to retire and do nothing Usually by the way those uh, founders who aim for high exits and they work like what, uh, 15 hours a day. Uh, they are not those that would actually be able to not to do anything and not to work uh after the exits. Right. So it was not my case. Uh, but um, basically we were doing Czech Republic and we were also testing some other markets and in Czech Republic since we were growing really like a lot. And yeah, after first year we had I believe 75 preschools. Uh second year I think we had 250. Then we had like 400, 500 maybe. Now we have more than 1500 preschools that is using uh, the software. But two years ago I would say it was slightly below thousand maybe. I hope I'm not messing uh up with the numbers. And so we already had significant cut on the market of preschools. And many preschools, especially the state ones are connected with school because it's preschool and school of some village, for example some small city. And Bacalaji uh, uh is a huge, basically the biggest and the oldest software for uh, operating uh schools. Um, this Bacalaji software itself have more than 60% of schools are using them. And uh, also the group uh, within uh, which we operated has also another platforms that were acquired later. So altogether we were kind of uh, meeting each other all the time. Like um, our preschool would like to have uh, Trixie here and Bacalaji here and will you go to schools or. And Bacalaji were uh, basically flirting with preschools and we are flirting with schools and we're like it doesn't make sense to do the double work both of us and to like invent the wheel. Uh, so much more clever in such a small market which in the end in the scope of the world. And I mean I've been with Trixie in Silicon Valley and uh, pitching uh, globally. And so I realize how small Czech Republic is. Especially when you try to pitch it somewhere in US and you tell them they have 20% of total market, you know, which is amazing, like it's impossible almost achievement. And then they say ah, uh, but how much people, like how many people is there in Czech Republic? Ah, 10 million. Okay. It's like one Manhattan. Okay, good. And like you feel like idiots, you know, like no one. So uh, of course the perspective of these huge markets with hundreds of millions of people uh, make you realize like okay, uh, it will not help anyone if we actually try to steal each other clients, uh, compete with prices, uh, defocus with double agendas. And so it was basically me approaching them first, uh, if we should copyright. And uh, we were kind of putting it together together with management of Bacalachi and with the shareholders and owners at the time already private equity fund. And yeah, uh, at some point it was quite obvious that uh, the most clever way would be to do the holding together. So we created new holding which uh, would focus on future of education in like management, uh, systems in the Czech Republic and Slovakia mainly. And we exited my minority shareholders and uh, my investors, uh, and we went to work together within this group. Yeah, suddenly of course it became huge group. It was around 100 people working there. Um, you have um, different compliance to speed uh system because one company is basically not growing and rather maintaining the clients one is fastly growing. So it was very complicated agenda as well to um, merger this or to uh, find some harmony in this. But it was a very great lesson, uh learned to be part of this. And um, um I was helping with some new platforms as well to integrate or to actually even create some parts of the technology. It's not published yet, but I hope my colleagues will um, publish it uh, anytime soon. Uh, and yeah, I just realized that uh, my biggest, sweetest spot is in the beginning of things that I really like to be this uh, fast moving uh, project. But of course if you are in C level management and co owner of such a huge company, um, you really have to put your ego aside and um, your preference aside and you have to do what is the best for the company, company. And I believe I gave it what I could. Uh, and um, after some talk I basically felt like that I really um, created the, even the value for the future. And I would love to focus on basically next projects that were already impossible to uh, do within the group because of course they would be defocused. They are too early stage and um, a little uh, slightly different area still education but slightly different area. So yeah, for the company doesn't make sense. So yeah, I basically asked uh, for a possibility of exit and then it took a year. Of course I had to still handle uh, all the agendas and um, still deliver some time and efforts. And um, in the end we finished the paperwork uh, in the end of last year so I managed to basically hand over all of the positions and all of the shares. And right now it's basically just the residual work time to time that someone calls like what's the login to something? And so I still of course I'm on call and I'm supporting the group from wherever I can. I mean it will always be my baby, right? But I feel like the baby grew to the adolescent time and uh, after teenage time and now it's young adult and I should let it go with more experienced people for later stage companies and uh, I can basically focus on starting another baby.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. But actually that also shows the level of maturity and growth that you may have. Because I assume that at the beginning it was like yeah, my baby and you didn't want to leave, but then you arrived to that level. Okay, I already as you mentioned you were self aware that your strengths is bringing something from zero to one, let's say the version one and of course more towards scale up maybe. Right. And then okay, yeah, it's already too big. There are more experienced people who can.

Speaker B: I think when you start to have like middle management that's the first step that you realize you cannot talk to everyone and suddenly there are people for people which is completely fine for the company. And also when we started, let's say Scrum for example, it was great when we brought a professional CTO and we started real Scrum. But suddenly I realized it's not like I have to be compliant with the process as well. Even though I'M the CEO or founder. But, uh, there are some procedures. And back in the time it was literally like I just crashed to the room of my developers and was like, I want this. And the next day it was on production, right? But suddenly I was like, theoretically, even if I did, I want this. They say, please, do you have definition of readiness? Ah, put it to backlog. Then we try to prioritize. Maybe you can push it to the next Sprint. And I was like, what the fuck? It will be out in six weeks minimum. So I had to also adjust to the pace. I mean it's good for the company, but of course it's like, um, more and more structure. Uh, and yeah, when we merged with a, uh, huge established company that is on the market for, can you believe, 35 years. So, uh, the companies really there, like they were the first ambassadors of any technologies within education. Yeah, ah, uh, but also some people are still there from the day one. So like, uh, our mindset is of course very different, our pace. I might look for them as the crazy jumping around person, like who always wants to do something. So I, um, think uh, it's very fair to find your sweet spot as wherever you are and every person, every founder should do it actually and um, and to optimize for that. And it might be that your sweet spot is in huge companies and you actually, everything before that is just, you know, the journey towards your goal. But, uh, I found my sweet spot that it's actually being able to really turn the wheel and change the shift quickly. It's more mess, it's more difficult, it's uh, less money involved and all, all of that. But I like it actually. I really like this, uh, face. And when it's getting really stable and really you have HR suddenly handling like how you talk to people. I'm like, you know, um, so I absolutely respect it. It's uh, great that the company is able to grow to such a size. But yeah, I think everyone should in the end long term optimize for their sweet spot. As I already mentioned, um, it will help you to be fresh long time. So yeah, this was great solution. And uh, yeah, uh, I believe that Twixie will still grow. It is growing beautifully. And now it has also the, um, management that is operating on a daily basis. So that's great, great, great.

Speaker A: And what is coming next to you? Right? So did you take some vacation or did you go directly to their next mission? So can you tell us a bit about your future and your ideas coming next?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, theoretically I would Say after such a thing you should have some article. Uh, I don't know how it happened that I didn't take even a week. So I still somehow should do something about it because it's probably looking backwards. Then one day I will say it was not so clever. But um, when I already knew that I will exit. Um, these things, they take time. Unfortunately. Even if you have the business deal, if you basically sign term sheet and you know when, for how much, how and you have this deal which sometimes is not that complicated to make or if you are aligned, this is what you reach. But then lawyers come and then they start to say but yeah, but what if, and this what if is so complicated it might take really long time because of course there was a lot of IP that was somewhere there and I mean I had Twixie blurred to my DNA everywhere. So suddenly when we were merging we didn't have such a big push that I will hand over everything, but suddenly it had to be done. And yeah, many things were um, uh, like described but some of the things we were thinking like ah, what about this? So it was really quite complicated process and of course to do the transaction, um, documentation, it just takes time. So I still believe that we were kind of non crazy long but it took a couple of months and uh, over this month I already knew that I uh, am leaving. So um, I already started to uh, slowly basically work uh, on the NGO that I am running right now because we were taking over the NGO that was already uh, operating on the market but just kind of had a downtime a little and was yeah on hold for last year. So we were also working on this transaction, um, documentation for taking over this project. And uh, it kind of shifted that I exited and literally we already had this NGO for a couple of weeks and I couldn't wait. I had to start to hire people and to do the project. So um, it's been basically completely intense, uh, back on back, um, but I see that this year is very transitional for me because yeah, I managed to free my hands basically uh, in the end of last year from the main project, of course from Trixie and from the Edu Claus group. Uh, and this year I'm starting uh, a couple of projects that I want uh, them to be run a little differently than Twix, so that it's not just one man show, but it's actually long term sustainable projects where I am not the bottleneck but I'm the visionary, I am the business person, I am the one who is bringing talented people um, and so on. And who is uh, basically doing the business development and create these uh, ideas. But then who will not do the daily operations? Right now I'm doing both. Unfortunately. This is the uh, in between of the phase before you hire the people. You are doing both the vision and both uh, the uh, daily, daily business. Of course. But I really am optimistic that this year is the transition of establishing these new projects and hiring the teams and uh, aligning with them on visions and make some plans together, make some budget things and so on. And that towards the end of the year I might free uh, my hands more, uh, maybe focus on investments more and also probably take some little break or at least some longer vocation. Uh, but I will have peace in mind that all of these projects that I'm starting now, they are ongoing and they don't need me every minute, every day. So right now we are there.

Speaker A: Yeah. So you have of course, thanks to all the learnings from the past, you have now a different approach and you will see how it works and how to manage it.

Speaker B: Let's talk in two years. I will tell you how my idea was something, but the reality. Sorry.

Speaker A: Exactly. But yeah, that's part of the game. Right.

Speaker B: So yeah, I call it failing forward. And I, I actually think it's great because it doesn't stress me anymore that I always. I know and I'm very uh, in peace with the fact that there will be always some bumps on the road or some hiccups or something like that. Because you, no matter how well you plan, you can never plan or consider every potential, whatever might happen. And even if you do, uh, and you try to have this risk metrics, hundred things, there, there will come something else like hundred number one. And it will. You just have to uh, be able to adapt very quickly and do the problem solving not to really, really panic from it. Because actually this is your, this is your job as CEO to be solving these problems. And the problems will be coming and bigger company, bigger problems, more problems. Very natural. And when I found a piece with this, it really also relieved me a lot, you know, because if I was coming to the office and uh, I opened the inbox and I would every day have like hundred messages, for example, or a hundred emails. And first of them would be that we have some problem with a client. Second would be that we have some problem in a team. Third would be that we have some problem in a technology. Fourth would be that we have a new client. And fifth, you know, so I was feeling like I always get up I was energized. And in the end of the day I was going out, so sucked out of energy because I was dealing with these hundred things. Out of them, um, 85 were negative and 15 were positive. So every negative was kind of putting me down and down and down. But I actually realized uh, one day that my job as CEO is uh, to be a, uh, garbageman. And garbageman, uh, is there for the fact to take care of the garbage. And as a CEO, at some point you will mainly deal with the daily problems that no one else can solve. So you are the last resort of the situation. And of course this is your job. So I came there and I calculated on the fact one day that, yeah, um, 100% of my tasks is to deal with some problems. And yet still this 15% of them might have been good. So suddenly all of these good things, which I didn't expect were suddenly putting me up. So I was leaving from the job like even more energized because I was like, oh my God, apart from the trash I had to do, I also had something positive, you know, so it's only about uh, perception and point of view. And as a founder and as uh, a as technically as any even employer human being, I would say if you get this notion as soon as possible that it's just okay, that there will be mistakes and there will be some problems and our job is to ah, fix them. And um, yeah, it's not the difference how many times you get the hit. It's the difference how many times you uh, get back up, dust off and continue. And this is literally the difference between successful and um, less successful people. Uh, in the last time, when these less successful people said, okay, I have enough and the other ones still continued. That's the difference.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. As you mentioned, consistency. And yeah, also having that positive mindset of course is what also what has bring you to this point. Right? Like, yeah, important to remember for sure.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And you have, of course it's hard, but it's, it's easier to deal with hard situations if you like what you're doing and if you do it somehow with a smile, but because you still have to deal with it. But you can either be super pissed about it or you can try to look, uh, like a little zoom out from it and say, you know what, like, the worst comes worse. I can always quit. I can always close this company or sell the company or do something. So I actually have a choice. And to be reminding this that we are so lucky to be living in this part of the world to be even able to deal with these problems. Because these problems, the problems in company, they are great problems to have comparably to what people on the other parts of the world have uh, to deal with unfortunately. So I always try to, you know, really be rooted and remind myself, you know what, this all is game basically. And it's great game but we shouldn't take it too personally so that it will ruin our spirit, uh, or our perception of life because life is great and uh, of course we have families and we should prioritize them because jobs will be here, the companies will be here and money will be here. They were here, they will always be here somehow. But important is us and the relationships and the footprint. Maybe we live here on this, on this planet and this is what matters. And um, with this perspective, it's great to start to actually enjoy it. Even though bad parts, we can somehow enjoy it. And I'm not saying that I am super happy if I have to fill in um, I don't know, like tax report. Of course I am cursing, but I'm cursing but I just take it as, you know, like sport way. Like okay, this is part of my job, I have to do it. It. Yeah. Uh, I don't like this part so much. So ideally I don't have full time job of doing this that would kill me. But um, it's part of the job. So let's do it quickly so that it's done and focus on something what I like. Yeah. And with this mindset I think you it's much easier to deal with any problem.

Speaker A: Yes. I need to send this click to my accountant because every time I am delayed to deliver some paper, it's like, okay, yeah, I understand that's your job. But I mean for me it's my last priority. I will try to leave it till the end because it's not my favorite part to go to. Song in voices and tracking.

Speaker B: I absolutely get you. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker A: Now if we switch a bit of topics about um, also about your role as an investor and what do you see in the future and what do you want to support you as a woman entrepreneur. Do you believe you want to support more women into entrepreneurship or what are your ideas and approach? Of course, maybe also what problems you would like to solve regarding education, for example. If you could talk a bit about that.

Speaker B: Uh, wow. Okay. So many questions but uh, thanks for them. So, yeah, first of all, I believe uh, more girls, women in entrepreneurship, in investors, uh, world, in sea level, anywhere. It's Great. I am not big fan of uh strict quote us to say it should be 5050 because fair enough. Let uh everyone to decide where they want to be and maybe statistically less women choose to be um founders. So that's fair enough. But of course the numbers we have right now, they're horrific. Um, in the European Union for example the VC funding which went to the female founders is. Would you guess by the way how much it is?

Speaker A: Uh, I think I read about that but I don't remember the number. So it's like maybe I will guess so 3 4%.

Speaker B: It's even below that it's like 1.8 and it's horrible, you know. So you should make at least like 20, you know. So this is kind because it's healthy, you know like the um. Ideally mixed teams are the great because you have both of the elements. You have the perspective of the woman, you have the perspective of the men. And I believe that both of them uh, them has some value. So to be able to use it. Mixed teams are the best in my case or in my opinion. So that's for sure. By the way I'm also doing some efforts in this area. So I am Czech uh representative uh of the uh organization uh which is uh organized under the European Commission uh basically like advisory organization called European Female Founders Forum. It was established by the European Commissioner Maria Gabriel, the Commissioner for Innovation and Education and yeah she selected as a female ah founder from each member state and basically together we are trying to tackle some problems that uh, we see within the European Union. And thanks to these initiatives we presented them in the European Commission in Brussels a couple of times and um, uh we have the spin off project called Her Fund. I am in the international advisory board of this and basically uh, this is the practical solution for some parts of these agendas and problems that we see. I'm very happy that more and more initiatives are happening. I also a member of LUMOS Investment which is basically um, uh the uh, group of uh, people who want to invest into female founders. Um and uh, most of the founders or all of the founders actually are women. So it's amazing. Ah so yeah for sure more women uh as well. But I would say it's kind of like it's not my ultimate goal. It's the ongoing agenda that I will always happy to support. My mission as I see it is more really towards disrupting um, uh education how we know it because I believe that the way how we educate now speaking mainly uh, in Czech Republic or CEE region it's just not up to date to the current needs and also it's not compliant with current opportunities we have. Uh, we cannot be teaching the same things by the same way as we did 60 years ago or 100 years ago. It would be like ignoring electricity, uh, and Internet and phones. We don't do it in other aspects of the life. So why do not react uh, uh, much faster to the needs um, of the 21st century human being. Of course I know how the education is working and how the curricula are being approved by the ministry and so on. So I don't want to shoot necessarily to schools or anything. They are doing their best. Um, they have tight hands in many ways. But I just believe that uh. We should really uh. Get rid of a uh. Lot of things we memorize in general because we can literally find them online. We should rather be uh, teaching kids how to operate with searching of data, how to verify data, um, how to be uh. How to uh. Rather cooperate in teams than to have the frontal education. When one person is telling you something and just write it down and the test is. It's. You write it back to the test. Uh, yeah, we have many new agendas that were not here 20, 30 years ago or they were not in. Yeah like financial grammar like during the socialistic. I was not. I was basically born at the time so I didn't have to deal with this. But, but if no one had nothing, you don't really deal with this problem. Right. But now uh, people are really struggling to even what calculate their own mortgage. And I'm not even speaking about possibility of starting their business. How to approach like all of these agendas. Ah, how to um. Understand the world is changing so fast that um, you need to be adaptive or adaptable to the changes and um, you have to be mentally fine with that. That you learn something and uh, in uh. One year later it's not enough. You have to learn something else or you have to retrain yourself. And all of these are let's say aspects that uh. Are anyhow not approached by the current curricula. Ah, it can even happen. Then Czech student will go to Abitur to um. Uh. Matureta to the final exam of the high school and until that never had to present in front of the class or in front of anyone. So they don't know how to validate their idea nor to present it to someone and defend their opinion about it. And of course we are missing it in our careers. So what I want to really do is to support changes in Education from both, uh, up and down, like from bottom and from top from top. I'm literally talking about uh, changes within the curricula and the ways, how we can maybe have combined studies, uh, and so on combined with like using some technologies. Also we are now remote. Right. So I really believe that some part of education could be trained at home with, I don't know, VR tablets, cahoots, all of these awesome things that we have around. Um, but I still believe in the huge important uh, role of the school itself and of the teachers. But I believe that the school as a building should be the place where students will meet, connect and discuss what they kind of pre learned before or what they experienced, what is their opinion. And they will do these interactions and teachers should be the leaders or the mentors to help them to navigate within this area. This is my dream, how we should be able to teach. And there's many skills that are kind of missing, uh, entrepreneurial mindset. And so so now I'm trying to um, make many efforts to help to push this to the curricula and also extracurricular activities.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Wagner skills can be how you sell to the kindergartens at the beginning with some pre sales. So quite important.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. We do it and like we are running one of the things, what we do is that we are running the high uh, schooler acceleration program, um, for building companies or I don't want to even say startups because not everything must be startup. You can even be building your local business or even ngo. Right. But any project you want to develop. So we are really accelerating them for five months from idea stage to validations to lean canvas and uh, how to prototype and how to go to market and talk to first customers and get the slap bag that it's really not working, they don't want it and so on and how to iterate and how to calculate and what's the go to market strategies. And so, and in the end they will pitch it, uh, in front of the jury and yeah, so we give them even some real money to play with and it doesn't matter whether it's like thousand euros in the end because they have to defend their budget. They have to thinking, oh, I have this thousand euros, so what I, I can do 100 here and 50 here. No, actually I could. Yeah, but this is in real life, like you just add three zeros and that's it. Yeah, but you have to learn these skills. Uh, and we really tell them, you know what, this is what you really need to, to learn you need to validate before you invest uh, amazing amounts of money and energy. Uh, and the market will tell you no thank you, we're not interested for whatever reason you have to iterate. And um, and this is the iterations uh that they are the key aspect. And again it's the failing forward. You just learn how it doesn't work and what people don't want and you make it again and a little better and then you verify again and you measure again and you do it over and again and again and again. And this is what you should ideally never stop doing.

Speaker A: Yeah, I got it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, if I understood well this, this project is called Saltish and Pognike, right? If I am pronounced it properly in Czech.

Speaker B: But yes, yes, uh, it is correct actually it will have a new name that um, we will announce uh 8th of April. By the way I can share invite if this uh, podcast will be already out. If not anyways check our website because it's. It will be late. Okay, uh, but so next year. But uh, it is uh, we have now grand finale of this year's cohort and basically Soltyz and Pudnike is the NGO I mentioned that uh, has been around for a uh good eight years. And the original founders really made a great job of establishing this. Basically they called it a competition for high schoolers to build their own startup. And yeah it has more than 1,000 alumni already. It's been a lot of work has been really done. And um, last year they didn't open already. It was like first year that they didn't open and so now they approached me in the end, uh, if I didn't want to take over the project, uh, uh, with let's say new uh, energy and new ideas. And yeah it took I would say a couple of months uh until we made some deal because of course they were also caring about what would be the future with it, whether this mission will somehow continue. And so of course I pitched them m how I would transform it because I see how much potential it has and how much bigger I would like to make it. And yeah, um, so we made a deal in the end and um, so this is one of the projects it's until now still called SOVJA up in uk. Uh and uh, from next year it will grow into something much uh bigger. It will be still the acceleration program this time it will already be five months long. Uh program for high schoolers that as extracurricular they will be basically building their real company. Um, we'll have three cohorts also uh, of the topics we will have hardware, uh part because uh, it's amazing that we have high schoolers that are interested in hardware products and building the actual hardware products. So that's great. Uh, but they need a little different approach than if you do uh, anything else. So we will have a cohort for hardware, we will have a cohort for NGOs because I believe that uh, many people don't want to really make business but they want to solve some problem. And one of the great ways uh, of how to solve a problem is to do it through ngo. And also what is kind of underestimated, NGO is kind of a company but you just reinvest uh, the profits. Uh yeah. So non profit doesn't mean that you don't make a business model or that you don't make money. Ideally you should not count on the only donations from the sponsors and so but you should really aim towards the sustainable economic model as well. And if you make some profits you can reinvest it back to the project. So we are trying to teach them this. Uh yeah and the third cohort is the rest of the, of the, of the types of companies. So this is one thing we are doing uh, another thing what we are doing together with uh, Czech founders, uh, where I am part of um, uh the board of directors right now, um, in the NGO of Czech founders. So together Soltya and Podnikay and Czech founders, um we are ah kicking off a um completely new project that is so far called called Lijia Kiyanak. And it's basically the business camp uh for high schoolers that instead of their uh, skiing trip they would go somewhere even to the same cottage might be but they will learn instead of skiing they will learn how to build their own project and from A to Z, what does it take? And they might not ever do it in the future but at least they will have some kind of baseline of understanding of project management and financial grammar as we mentioned. And so this is yet another project.

Speaker A: Okay, that sounds great. Well I may have an idea about that because I went to one event in Switzerland who was in the Top of the Monte. Um, they were still a scheme but also there was this part of education. So maybe you can also mix it a bit but I don't know it's just an idea because. And people. But it was more like of course it was already founders and VCS and stuff like that. Right. But people were also connecting because of going to the slopes and enjoying skiing. Right. That was not my case because I am not the. I am just skiing in the baby slope in my case. But yeah, but I was more in the, in the restaurant and talking to the people who was there. Right.

Speaker B: Well, the apresque was the Bombardino.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: You are right. Of course these um, type of camps, they're great to combine. It's not just sitting inside of the classroom. Exactly. This is the point of them that you connected with some outdoor activities. And yeah, it's kind of like this retreat activities that you just change their uh, experience and their daily routine to something more interactive. And um, also you can uh, absorb it with more senses than just when you are sitting in the classroom and listening and maybe writing down, but semi sleeping. So if you can actually experience it, if you can hike somewhere and do some ritual and you know, touch something, smell something, uh, close your eyes and really do these feelings, deep feelings, it will save somewhere like much deeper. Yeah. So of course we are putting together these uh, programs together with professionals from both like education, part entrepreneurs, part psychology, part uh, and also basically uh, coordinators of camps because um, it must be not overwhelming, it must be interesting, it must be funny. And uh, all of this is a huge science which I absolutely love and admire. Uh, I am not able to put every step together but luckily I'm able to put together the people who can put it together in the end. So this is my role right now. And um, I see how incredible people we are getting on board that can make this happen. So wish us good luck as well in this for next year or school year because it will be the first pilot year we want to pilot in startups in uh, every um, sense. Right. So um, we decided that we will actually start to pilot in completely 100% of regions in Czech Republic. So 14 regions, uh, at the same time. Uh, because we actually want to really measure um, the data also in between of the regions. And uh, these kind of programs should be inclusive. Really. It's. And I don't. I'm from Prague, I live partially in Prague, partially in Berlin. So um, I have much easier access to events and through, let's say acceleration programs, coworks and so on. But if I would be from some more remote place and if I would be earlier in my career so that I don't have the network yet, um, it's much harder to actually overcome some threshold of, let's say knowledge. And the worst is that you don't know that you don't know. I mean if you know that you would like to do something, you will find A way if you are proactive enough. But if you don't know that there is a project that could help you, uh, when you're a high schooler, it's much harder to be searching for such a thing if you've never heard or never even thought about such a thing. So we really believe that we should make it available for literally everyone. And, uh, we call it as like showing the door. We want to show the door to everyone so that they can choose whether they want to use them or not. And if not, that's totally fair, but at least, uh, we will not lose the talent somewhere that someone could do something earlier, but they just didn't have, um, let's say the tools or didn't have the access to the information.

Speaker A: Right. That sounds, uh, an amazing project. So I think we have well out of the time schedule, but if it's okay for you, if we do the last few questions, it can be short answers and quick questions and then we, we close it for today. It's okay?

Speaker B: Absolutely. I hope people are not sleeping yet.

Speaker A: Don't worry. Don't worry. Well, we will also create, uh, short videos since we are all missing attention span already. Right. So we have plenty of, we can create plenty of short videos out of the conversation.

Speaker B: That's very good.

Speaker A: Good. Um, so the questions that come next are like, yeah, ideally I would just make a question and ideally you will answer it in a short way. So, uh, I will ask, uh, is there any book or podcast that you believe have changed your think or has been helpful for you?

Speaker B: Um, restart. I will never approach this level, but, um, definitely this. And, um, atomic habits, of course. And in personal level for agreement. Really like that book.

Speaker A: Good, good. Um, do you do any activities to reset when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused or you're losing your resilience?

Speaker B: Let's say I do yoga. Um, less than I would like to. Um, and I like shisha. So this is when I take nice, ah, Shisha and shisha place tea, book. Uh, thinking. Ah. And quite recently I realized that I actually like to accompany myself with positive, uh, people and likewise thinking people. And it's a balm for soul to be around him. Um, and just flow.

Speaker A: Great. Yeah, that sounds, of course nice to always keep around positive people. Right. So that's lovely.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: Is there any founder or leader that you admire or use as a role model?

Speaker B: No. Well, um, sure. Um, I will now go maybe a little against the rules. And I will even mention Elon Musk, even though he, he got nuts recently. With many ways. But I admire the inventions he introduced uh repeatedly within his career and I think it will actually still be some things that are somehow in a drawer yet. So on this part of the visionary I really admire him in Czech market. I think I uh really like uh Tomas Chuper of course because he made um again multiple companies. But I really admire that he is very proud Czech and he is uh expanding to the world and to Dach. To Germany literally from Czech Republic. And he is very proud of being Czech ah founder. Um and then there is many really many, many, many um within Czech founders. Uh I see so many founders of Czech Republic and all of them are amazing like it. I have so many people that are. That I admire from looking up but I also have so many that I admire that they dared to start. Um so yeah I would say anyone is great but maybe I have to mention one more name and it's uh Kubane Shetril um who is a tech founder but then he went uh to a uh nonprofit and he built Cesco ah Di Guital and now he's also building Matica Cescu uh another um nonprofit organization for supporting m. Math teachers. Um and I really believe that he is one of the people I take inspiration from how you can use um the finance from exit towards um basically higher impact within the society and go to nonprofit and really help and give back. So Cuba as well of course.

Speaker A: Good, good. Yeah thanks for sharing all the founders and of course that um really also following their journey as well which is really interesting. Um since you mentioned that you are living half time in Berlin and half time in Prague. So maybe take the chance to ask. So yeah what would you change or what would you bring from Berlin to Prague and what would you bring from Prague to Berlin from your experience? Maybe it's a difficult question but we

Speaker B: will see a great question question. Uh, I would bring to Berlin uh actually more uh digital things from Prague because they're actually we have. We have checkpoint and we have this digital identity and bank ID and we don't realize that we don't have to go to notary anymore. We don't have to go to all the institutions to have export from or whatever registry in Germany. You still have to do it and you still have to do it with application via letter, physical letter letter and get uh the answer via letter. And everything takes time and it's very uh slow. So definitely this back uh what I would bring from Berlin to Prague is uh maybe this like positive mindset I would say I really uh Think that since Berlin is very inclusive city that you can be whoever you want. Um, and people come there from all around the globe basically to live in freedom. So it's very inspirational in a way that in one place can meet people from different uh, age groups, different ethnicity, different sex orientation, different backgrounds, different uh, society level based uh, on money and so on. And they can still choose and uh, chill together and inspire each other. And I uh, really like it. I think, um, some parts of Czech Republic, we are not bad in this. Like Prague is very inclusive but uh, of course we still have some, let's say old, um, dogmas, uh, uh, unfortunately and some stereotypes from the old times. Yeah. About entrepreneurship, about the role of women towards, towards being in a career and so on. So these type of things I believe should, should change and they are changing slowly. Um, but of course I see this big difference in Berlin. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, got it, got it. Yeah, that's, thanks for sharing that. And I quit thinking about how to bring it. Maybe you were prepared for this question or something.

Speaker B: But there are good ones and actually I will be thinking about like in a couple of years what will be my next, next startup, what I could do for this.

Speaker A: Good, good. Um, as a last point for today, so is there anything we have talked today that you want to remark or. It can be also something that we haven't talked but you can see that is important, uh, to have.

Speaker B: Yeah, I um, would say first of all is to ask for help. Like you will never make it alone. Like if anyone is doing their business sooner, they realize that it's absolutely fine to write to anyone. Um, use LinkedIn, use the network and ideally have a concrete question, not like just chit chatting, but because people are busy. But if you actually have really small detailed question that you want to know and it will help you to push to next level, try to write as many people as can and you will be surprised how many people actually answers. Not all of them, but you should be fine with that. So that's, first of all, don't worry about this, this, it's absolutely fine to ask for help and everyone is doing it. And second is to have this positive, uh, mindset and to be sure that you can really achieve great things or things that are great for you, whatever that is, whatever level it is. And you can do it with moral compass, with good, uh, um, business ethics and you can do it with kind of overall joy. Uh, and I believe that this is the way and you can do something which really helps, not just you, but to others. And you can have the pleasure from it because it really, you know, warms your heart. So um, it's absolutely possible. And even if someone would be telling anyone that it's not, this is not how business is done. That you are too soft for is. No, like be yourself, trust your thing, do your homework. It's hard work, it's for sure, but it's also great work and it's, it's uh, it can be really a fun work uh, to be a founder. So if this is what you search for, then I would definitely say let's see, uh, let's try uh, for everyone. And you will see yourself whether you like it or not.

Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for sharing that as well. Um, I will uh, break the protocol as well because I was having this last question but I remembered I forgot something. So you have woman pilot in your LinkedIn. So can you tell us a bit about that story? How did you decide to be a pilot as well?

Speaker B: Oh yeah, so I owned a uh, PPL license, which is the private pilot license, uh, for small planes, up to five people basically. Um, I did it when I was building the startup. It was yet another thing. I somehow did the whole training. If you ask me now how I did it, I don't know. To be honest, I don't know. I did it, it was Covid times. Uh, but uh, to be fair, I was living on a lot of adrenaline. Um, I knew that for me personally any uh, like substances, drugs and so would not be the solution. I have son and I have to be operational. So my drug was adrenaline. And um, I realized that it's very hard at the time, it was very hard for me to find uh, a piece, like to chill, to sit, to read uh, a book or something because I was always having a lot of thoughts. So instead of uh, pushing through the calmness, I realized that if I do something that is even more intense than what I do, I actually really have this chilled mind from work because I have to focus on something else. And if you are flying a plane and you are alone up in there, there, your focus, trust me, is there. It's not like you are not thinking about deadline or anything. You are really checking your checklist. And so I love everything around planes. I mean if I was any better in physics and engineering, I would be probably the aerospace engineer. Uh, so I really love it for all my life. Uh, and I was following a lot of like uh, things around this and at some point I became a group of founders who uh, had a pilot license and it was like last step to actually do my own. So um, I did it and uh, yeah, now I can fly uh, the small plane. I had some break quite recently because it was very uh, intense period of time uh with the exit and with everything and uh, if you really want to be kind of fit and flying you should really go regularly. Back in the times I was really going twice a week and so and really takes some uh, bulks of time. Um, and uh, now I am having almost a year long break because I really feel like you have to have your focus there, not anywhere else. But uh, I am planning to come back this year again and yeah, I still have the papers valid of course I need to refresh some, some hours and um, and um, I want to of course safety first. Uh, but yeah, I cannot wait. It's beautiful. And again it gives you this another perspective on things in life and the world. And that's amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing because well I have, well I am not a pilot but I have that feeling. It's more when driving, right that you have that feeling that you are, you stop thinking about something else which is not the same but maybe, maybe in the highway is a bit more adrenaline. Right. But um, and that way you kind of start washing the, also the landscape and then okay, you kind of just focus into this and forget all the rest and maybe even with that, that's the reason why maybe you made the exit because that gave you new ideas and new perspective, right? Or I don't know, just inventing something interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, but you're right of course you, you uh, manage to zoom out from things because you are not, not on like daily business, daily operations but you can think of things also from a little further distance. Yeah, of course you're right. Change of perspective, always interesting for anything good.

Speaker A: So thank you very much Panda for your time today and really appreciate the conversation and all your story and the lessons learned. So I hope it's going to be useful for all our audience.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: What if people wants to continue talking to you and send you a ah, message or something or. Yeah, how can they approach it from you?

Speaker B: Yeah, ideally LinkedIn, this is the easiest and from there we can either shift towards other platforms or um, or I can maybe help them to navigate to other people who would have maybe even better answer to what they would be interested in it. But anyways if they would uh, like to let's say follow some behind the scenes updates. Uh, I'm just starting this concept of like regular LinkedIn posts because I realized that many people is asking like what it takes um, to actually build these things. And uh, I want to be transparent. I want to share it. I want to just let them see behind the scenes. So I'm kind of doing this like bi weekly updates. So yeah, if you just, just befriend me on LinkedIn or how they call it connect on LinkedIn. Um, you might also see this and maybe it will be something what is valuable as a content. I try to be as concrete as possible with also events that you can attend and um, updates what they're happening in a startup scene and check on the European level. Of course. Definitely let me know.

Speaker A: Good. So again, thank you very much and um, all the best in the next steps with. With our multiple path that you are taking which all. All the success and. And yeah we keep talking.

Speaker B: Thank you very much and thank you for having me see you.

Speaker A: Thank you very much for joining us. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and gained valuable insights. Feel free to share with your friends and love. Looking forward to seeing you next time.