#113 - What was Fred Hoch from TechNexus doing in his 20s

Speaker A: What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the podcast with the best advice. This is in their 20s with your host, Landon Campbell. It's been a while since we've recorded an episode of this podcast. Five months has gone by to be exact. Which is crazy, crazy to say out loud because time really does fly. But look, I've been busy. I'm at Drive Capital where we just announced our 80 million dollar seed effort for early stage founders. Just want to say thank you so much to the city, the local community, founders, investors here for the kind words. Big things are coming and I'm really excited to continue building this in Chicago. So with that being said, if you are a founder in Chicago, the Midwest that's working on something very special, please hit my line landonrivecapital.com I'd love to learn more. Everybody knows how enthusiastic I am about the Chicagoland tech and startup ecosystem. I'm really bullish on the future of Chicago. I live here, I invest here, and I want more startups, more founders to build massive companies here. So for this episode of in their 20s, episode 113, I thought it'd be cool for you to learn about my perspective on the past, present, and future of Chicago tech, but also the perspective of someone who's done so much for this ecosystem. Fred Hotch, the founder and general partner of Chicago's Tech Nexus Venture Collaborative. We covered some very exciting topics in today's episode. Fred shared his personal playbook on how to network better in your 20s. He walked us through the birth of SaaS software as a service that he was heavily involved in and also compared it to what we're seeing today within Generative AI. Fred and I also have something super cool in common. We're both from California, but we're now Chicagoans. So we spoke about not only how we can keep Chicago founders here, but also why other founders and other ecosystems should consider Chicago as the place to be. Let's jump in with Fred Hotch to hear his best advice for people in their 20s.

Speaker B: I have a question for you. Just with moving from California, like, are you used to the weather here yet?

Speaker C: Well, you know, um, I lived in Washington D.C. for a decade before I came here. So, um, sort of my history is California. Born and raised, went to UCLA. Uh, and so I was, until I was 21, sort of a, you know, fluent in dude, right? Yeah, I didn't really go anywhere else, so I, I knew that. Well then I lived in Europe for two years or around the world for two years and then D.C. for a decade, which isn't as cold as here. But now, after 17 years in Chicago, I've sort of, uh, I've become tolerant. And, you know, I've got more layers than I did when I was 30. So, of course, keeps me warmer.

Speaker B: I think my second winter here was the, uh, polar vortex.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Negative 30. So, uh, that woke me up. And do, uh, you know Chris Deutsch from Lofty Ventures?

Speaker C: Yeah, we don't know each other well, but we know each other. Sure.

Speaker B: Um, we were talking about, like, my first two years here and dealing, uh, with the winter. And he gave some good advice. He said, uh, and it's advice that he shares with Chicago founders. If you can survive a winter here, you can survive anything.

Speaker C: Well, you know, it's kind of the, um, in thing now. Right. If you think about people that jump into the ice baths every morning, it's sort of you just. In Chicago, you don't need the bath. You just walk outside in the winter and you got it.

Speaker B: Exactly. Carry around a little water bottle.

Speaker C: I mean, run naked or something through it. All set.

Speaker B: Seen some people do some crazy stuff when it, like, snows here. Uh, jumping around and swimming. Swimming trucks in the snow. So, yeah, probably will never do that. But you never know at this point.

Speaker C: You never know. Life is long.

Speaker B: Well, Fred, I've known about you for a long time. Really excited again to have an opportunity to speak with you today on the podcast. Um, wanted to give some context of, like, uh, what I've been doing in the podcasting space, um, in my show. So we're going to be, uh, posting this on our feed for in their 20s. It's a podcast where I interview successful people about what they did in their 20s, how they got to where they are today. I started this at the beginning of the pandemic because, I mean, you probably see it. People are always curious about what you're doing today and how you became successful. But I'd love to find opportunities to bring it back to maybe, you know, before you had your shit figured out and when you were trying to, um, you know, get into the space and, um, when you were on the come up. Um, so, you know, you're joining a great list of guests like Steve Wozniak came on Ev Williams from Twitter, which is very relevant these days. Mayor of Miami. And now I'm just really honored to have you on the show.

Speaker C: Well, thank you very much. It's my honor to be here, and I'm really glad to be, uh, a part of it. I'm not sure I live up to those people.

Speaker B: But in my book you do.

Speaker C: I appreciate the kind words, but, uh, I'll give my best in terms of perspective. Ah, totally.

Speaker B: Um, so I love to start with, uh, daily routines that people develop in their 20s. But I want to add a little caveat. What's a daily routine that you started in your 20s that you still use today every single day, or at least aim to?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's an aim to. I think my daily routine they would aim to is a work related thing, which is to sort of always to scope out the day, scope out the next 24, 36 hours at the start, every day. Right. So I wish I could say that it's my 20s, I learned to meditate, which I do now, or I had a strong workout routine. I probably had a stronger one than I did today. But if I say one thing that I've always kept is start the day by looking at the big picture, looking at what the goals were that I have. So not just today, but sort of a year, two years ahead, and then bring it back to, okay, what do I want to accomplish in this specific day? And making sure that those are prioritized. No. Can you always get them done?

Speaker A: No.

Speaker C: But that's the way I look at it. I love that. And that holds true not just for work, but for my life. So if I look at a Saturday morning, I say, okay, what do I want to do, what do I want to spend? What do my kids need? What does my wife need, what does my family need? Uh, and what am I going to try and do as part of that to make sure that we're meeting our long term goals and objectives.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's one of those very impersonal.

Speaker C: But it's not meant to be. It's meant to be sort of you

Speaker B: just want to stay on your A game. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Um, I actually do the same thing before I start any day. I'm really curious about, okay, like, what are my plans for the day? And, um, you're able to cross those out throughout the day. And I love your point also, like, you're not going to always accomplish every single thing for that day. There's nothing wrong with that, but you at least should know what you didn't get to.

Speaker C: Especially in an entrepreneurial environment. The distractions are few, are significant, and, and they come at you quick and many days will come out too fast.

Speaker B: Totally quick follow up question for that. Um, I love to explore this as well. Have you Found like a balance. Because I haven't and I know our listeners, um, are looking for this still while they're young. You know where you are at in your career right now, have you been able to find a work life balance or is it more like a work life harmony to you? Sometimes you just got to turn things off and turn them on.

Speaker C: I think I've heard that before. Work life harmony. Um, no, I think balance is, I think too often work life balance as a singular mentality. Um, I think that everyone's balance is different. I think that I found a good rhythm, maybe that I'm comfortable with, uh, but a balance that sort of says I'm working this many hours, I'm living this many things, doing things. I think that's all bs, right? I think it's a question of finding what makes you happy, what makes you, what makes your rhythm. I personally, and it's something that we can talk about from the 20th. I don't know how not to work 10, 12 hours a day. Right. Uh, I probably don't do it as now that I'm older, I can't do it as consistently. I can't do 12 hours straight. I have to do sort of six, take a break and do six or whatever the case is. But that's to me, that's balance. Right? It's balance. And did I spend time with my kids? That's balance. Um, those are things that I find important. And so it's finding that rhythm that you're comfortable with. To the point at the end of the day, go, okay, I'm exhausted. Right. If I don't end the day exhausted, then I've done something wrong.

Speaker B: Mhm. And clearly this wasn't something that, you know, a new behavior, you just started, um, I bet you were born with it. And I'm the same way. I mean, you know, I've always really found passion in working hard. But I'm going to guess that you're probably doing different things when you were in your twenties. So what were you passionate about when you were younger? Like what were you willing to put 12 hours a day?

Speaker C: It's interesting. I, you know, I don't know, I, maybe it was born that way. And I sort of, I look back at my parents and what they did. My parents are scientists and, and worked six days a week and so. But I was really lazy in my teens. Like I just was not motivated at all, uh, to do much. I mean, I did fine in school and um, you know, I hung out at the beach and partied and did what I needed to do. I don't know that I had any grand plan, um, back to sort of spending. As I said, I grew up in California, grew up on the beach. And after college I spent two years traveling the world time, um, been to Europe, lived in, you know, visited 30, 38 countries or something and spent a lot of time in South America. Um, and I learned through that process a lot about myself. Right. And so it's something that I encourage everyone to do in their 20s if they can. I was very fortunate. I was able to do it for almost two years full time. Uh, not everyone has that, can afford that. And it was a sort of random set of circumstances allowed me to do that. Um, but it taught me sort of who I was and what I wanted to be. And it wasn't until then, it wasn't until then that I went to grad school that I started to get the hustle that I think became very relevant in my 20s and grew throughout my 20s. Uh, and so, um, what motivated me in those days was just trying to figure out who I was, what I wanted to do. And I had lots of interests. Uh, at one point I was working at the State Department, uh, in the Western European office as a presidential intern. And I spent over 40, 50 hours a week, um, doing State Department stuff. I wanted to be a foreign service officer. Um, I, you know, explored lots of different technology things over the years. Um, but I think that all around that sort of hustle came from looking at lots of different things and then figuring out what I liked the most and putting most of my energy into that. But it didn't come until I was in my 20s actually. And that was due to just circumstances. Circumstances, I think, or not being ignited, if you will.

Speaker B: Yeah. But you recommend more 20 somethings. And I love this advice. Get out travel if you are able to, for sure.

Speaker C: I mean, I think if I look at the 20s and sort of one of the things that I Learned in the 20s. Right. One is get out, travel, look at different perspectives.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Not just, hey, I'm in the tech industry or I'm in the VC industry or I'm in the logistics industry. But look at the perspectives there. But also look at the things that are tangentially related or aren't even related at all to give you perspective on things. Absolutely. If you can travel, take the opportunity, do it as much as possible. Different cultures. It's different now. Right. It's, it's sort of funny because I joke that I um, am old enough that there was no email just started. Right. There was no cell phone. So I was gone. I disappeared.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: It's hard to do that. It's hard to do that right now. I had to learn. If I was in Germany, I had to be able to read the German paper. I had to figure it out. Or if I was in, um, Croatia, I had to figure out what to do in those times. There's a lot more opportunity now to get things in English. That's important, I think. Figure out what your passions are. Right. Um, figure out and do that by networking strongly. Right. So I believe that one of the things that was great in my 20s was networking. Uh, I was very good at it. I learned to do it well. I became student body president and in the grad school. And I just spent a lot of time meeting lots of people in different perspectives, much as I had done globally. I did that when I was in Washington, D.C. d.C. Reaching out to people in the White House or in the technology industry or in the, uh, food industry. All these things sort of got me a perspective going, uh, or something I did in my 20s. I think it's important, uh, and then building those characteristics around hustle that are important if you're going to be an entrepreneur, if you're going to be successful. I don't believe that there's any substitute for hard work. Just isn't. There's no shortcuts. Right. You have to go hard. And it's not just time. It's time and intensity, which is why

Speaker B: it's so important to back to your other point. Map out what you're doing in a day. Because you got a lot of people that just hustle, hustle. But, like, you know, are they growing? Are they learning? Are they meeting new people? So sometimes it's not productive to just work, work, work. You got to be intentional with what you do.

Speaker C: You got to be intentional to do, but you also have to sort of. And, uh, something I don't think I learned to later was to say no sort of things. Right. Be intentional, but be open to things that are new and different. Like, because you want to have those experiences. Like if I just hung out with the same six people in my. Or five people, whatever number is in 20s, it would have been boring. But I also had to be, uh, which I didn't realize till late, you have to be willing to say, no, that's a waste of my time. Or it doesn't fit into the overall program. But not say that all the time.

Speaker B: Sure. Well, Fred, we have a lot in common. Uh, Again, both from California, I was the vice president of my student body. And then also I do, um, consider myself a really good networker as well. I want to dive into what networking means to you and what it meant to you growing up. Because I see a lot of people like, oh, I have, you know, 20,000 connections on LinkedIn. And that's not really what I view networking as. I think it's really the quality versus the quantity. So how can 20 somethings network more efficiently?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a good question. First off, um, generally I find, generally I say there's lots of people want to take pictures. Networking is taking pictures. Oh, I met so and so and I have a picture with them. Who cares, right? I don't if you, you're not in my office, but if you are, there's no pictures of me and Barack Obama or, or, or Steve Jobs. I've met all these people over the years. I don't care.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: It doesn't matter. I think what's important networking is, is getting to the heart of who those people are. Right. So I, People laugh and if you meet me m in a bar, me somewhere, I'll say, what's your story? It turns people off. They kind of freak out. Like, what do you mean, what's my story?

Speaker A: I'm.

Speaker C: And I'm like, so networking is important to meet a, to when you're talking to someone, get to know them and share what you're doing also with them. So to get to a real sort of understanding of who that person is. You and I just met, we found the commonalities in California. Okay, what are the other things that are important to you? Uh, going forward? The other thing is to once again speak, go beyond what you think is important to you. I could say, okay, I only I'm now, if you put me now, um, in the classification of a vc, if you will. I think I'm more than that, but let's assume I am. If I only talk to other VCs or other entrepreneurs, it'd be a pretty boring set of conversation. It'd be the same thing over and over again. But the network that comes from variety of perspectives is one that I think has tremendous benefits for anyone who's growing and learning about industry and learning about themselves and learning about where they want to go in their 20s, 30s and beyond.

Speaker B: Yeah, really great skills there. Um, you know, be willing to share who you are and what you're looking for as well. Um, but a big key to networking as well is to always find unique ways to Provide value to another person. And you do that by really, you know, trying to have a human conversation, not always have it be super transactional. So I think the more you speak with someone, the more you understand about what they need, what their challenges are, what they're looking for. You might be able to connect the dots.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's an interesting point and certainly something I live by, although I don't believe it has to be immediate. Right. So if you said, Fred, what do you think your best skill is? It's the fact that I have a tremendous memory and always have and. Right. So to me, networking has always been a, uh, meeting you, meeting someone today and be able to. And then meeting someone else a month from now and be able to connect the dots later. In that I think too often people, I'm going to push back in a little bit and say, too often people say, well, I network with you. I've got to find the immediate reason that we're going to do something. I'm going to do something for you. So we become best friends, right? Or whatever it is we become. Um, and I don't think that's always true. I think it's always keeping in mind. Listen, I took notes of everyone I met over the times because when I could remember, I wanted to know. And then I found ways over time to connect those people. And so it's having that larger perspective that's important. Uh, I think is what is key to networking.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, really love that advice. Um, so you have a lot of young people as well, they're trying to network with new people, meet new people. Um, and I speak a lot about, like, the art of, uh, you know, reaching out cold or connecting to someone that you don't know, uh, through a dm, um, through an email. I know, me personally, like, you know, I tend not to read, you know, long cold messages. Um, I think that you need to really be intentional. It starts with the subject line. But for the people who have reached out to you, the young people looking to learn about, you know, what you do, connect with you, um, what are some. What's some advice when it comes to reaching out cold?

Speaker C: Reaching out cold, I mean, just be honest with what you're trying to do, right? So people that I react to are not the people that try and find some clever way, like, you know, send me a picture of a, uh, I got one recently of a squirrel screaming, right? I'm like, I'm not going to respond to that, but somebody who comes to me and says, listen, here's who I am. Here's what I'm doing, here's what I want to do. Can you give me some advice and counsel? Can you spend 15 minutes with me? Uh, I'm happy to do that. Right. And so I generally will take any meeting in the. That comes that way. Right. Um, it doesn't always have to be warm. Right. Certainly, if you sent me a deduction, I'm absolutely going to take it, because you and I built. We're going to build a relationship, and so we've got to do that. But cold is fine. Just be honest and open it and be respectful of time. Right. We're all busy. Right. I'm. Trust me. You. 15 minutes with me. I'm sure we can get. We can find value. And if it goes somewhere, it'll go to the next 15 minutes. But don't expect. Hey, I need an hour of your time right now.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, I want to pivot and start to dive into the Chicago ecosystem. So let's start with what got you here originally. Um, and when you started to pursue, um, startups, venture entrepreneurship in general.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's funny. Um, it's interesting. What brought me here was my wife. So, um, so, so. But it flows into that exact question you answered.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: So throughout the 90s, throughout my 20s, uh, throughout my, um, life, I was always starting things. Right. So, um, after I went to grad school, I realized that I didn't really want to be in the foreign service. I didn't really want to be a foreign service. It was just too mundane and too rote. Right. Um, but I had always had a sort of entrepreneurial bend. Um, my parents remind me that I tried to. I started a snake breeding business when I was 11.

Speaker B: I swear, the lemonade stand.

Speaker C: I had a snake and I started breeding snakes and try to sell them. And at, uh, one point, I was importing swatches in my teens from Europe. My father would go to Europe and bring me these swatches. Like, no one has me here. We got to get more. Get more. Um, so there was always sort of this entrepreneurial bend that I had, even though I was very lazy in my teens. Um, and so throughout the time, I started a number of software companies. This is early days of Internet, sort of late 90s. Uh, I started a test company and a security company and a warranty company. My family and I started a biotech company together. Um, uh, well, they started. I just sort of clombed on and did some stuff along the side because they were the scientists and I was trying to Pretend that I knew what I was Talking about at 26, right, uh, around biotech. But we did okay. Um, and so at the time, what brought me to Chicago was I was, I had another full time job which was an evangelist for the software industry. So my job was, uh, sort of turn of the century, uh, going out and proselytizing on software as a service. So actually we coined the phrase software as a Service. Our organization, SaaS. And uh, we went out and then I would go and sort of talk about it from a business perspective. So we would go out to the Bay Area, I'd go and get yelled at by Larry Ellison and say, you know, here's what you need to talk about. And so we would talk about this thing that was coming that no one want to talk about because you're too young. But it used to be you used to go to the store and get software in a box, or you would get this big huge 17 disk set that you would install Oracle database or Microsoft Server in or whatever. That uh, was the way you got software, uh, in those days. So I spent time doing that. But I also had two companies. I had a warranty company that was trying to rationalize, uh, the warranty business. Um, it was based in San Francisco and I had this biotech company in, in San Diego. So basically I was traveling this triangle of time, basically gone all the time. My second child was born. My wife said, I know who you are. I know I can't stop you from being an entrepreneur. I don't want to stop you. I know you're going to work 12, 14, whatever it is, in hours a day, seven days a week. But I need help. So she said, we've got to move to Chicago, where my family is, where I was born, where she's from, which is where we are obviously. And so we did.

Speaker B: That's a great story.

Speaker C: And that's how I ended up in Chicago, uh, in the middle of winter in 2005.

Speaker B: So, um, you know, you just mentioned that the organization you're with at the time really came up with this whole idea of SaaS. You were there in the early innings, you know, trying to spread the word of SaaS and talk to people about this new technological advancement that maybe a lot of people were scared at. Um, I'm spending a lot of time right now looking at Generative Tech, for example, which we can talk about at the end of the interview. But my question is like, when you have this new technology, um, that a lot of people are fearful of it, um, that it's going to, you know, replace this and take this job. How are you navigating those conversations and going into those rooms? Um, you know, and really proud to talk about the future.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean it wasn't. The issue wasn't jobs. Well, I guess it was a bit of a jobs. And when we were talking about SaaS early on, it was more about how you're going to pay for it because it dramatically at that point changed budgets. Before you'd have these huge capital budgets to buy software, it went to this sort of variable budget and so it would change things. But I think you have to show the benefit of uh, the example of the benefit, what we were successful at was one, pounding it again and again and showing the benefit of that technology in specific cases. Uh, and so even I look at generative AI and generative tech and say I don't quite yet understand it completely. Right. And uh, I think I'm pretty well versed in what's going on in the technology industry. So the question is, if you're going out and pontificating that it's sort of how is this going to affect my life on a day to day basis and how does it bring cost efficiencies or time. Or time. Or benefit the company in a way that's beneficial. If you look at what's going On Today with ChatGPT, it, you know, everyone's talking about how it's going to get rid of essays, college essays. Right. Or it's going to. Writing is no longer going to matter. Okay. That's going to freak some people out. Right. Certainly going to freak out the academics. It's going to freak out people that do sales. So we got to figure out. It says. Okay, it's more than that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right. It's. That's sort of an example where there is some fear. But think about how does it also have benefits. And so you got to sell those benefits on a way that you don't have to before.

Speaker B: Yep. And the benefits, I mean if you break them down into first principles, people want to find ways to save time and save money to your point. So um, if you can, if you have this new advancement that is scaring a lot of people, you know, just. Yeah. Really get down, show the clear benefits and use cases of how it can save time and money.

Speaker C: Yeah. And remember, listen, my business these days is about disruption. I get my days helping corporations deal through disruption through venture engagement. But um, disruption is a scary thing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Everyone likes the status quo. They like how things work on a day in, day out basis. And they're not ready for that, just for disruption. So you have to ease people into that and recognize that they're always going to have that fear. Even if it has time, money, even if it saves money, uh, they're going to be worried about disruption and what it means for them. So you just have to ease them into and say, and help them to evangelize, if you will, about how the future will be better because of this, but directly how they'll be better because of it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so you land in Chicago, it's cold. Um, I don't know if, um, you know where on the, um, roadmap tech nexuses, if it's even an idea that you've thought of yet. But can you kind of discuss like, what the tech ecosystem in Chicago was like when you came here in the olden days? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, 40 years ago. Um, like talk to us about what it was like. And then I want to like, really understand what's the problem that you recognize in the market that would lead to you to want to create Technexus.

Speaker C: Well, we created another organization called Illinois Technology association first. But so I came in 2005. As I said, um, Chicago was, has always been a technology community that was under the radar, right? The problems we're talking about today is nothing different than it was 20 years ago or 17 years ago, specifically in this case. It's always been a series of companies that are addressing vertical markets and they're doing really well. Logistics, financial services, marketing, whatever. But they're not household names, right? They're, uh, not something my mother would know. They're not something that the average person on the street would know. But they're big companies, right? They're billion dollar companies in these areas. Chicago 2005 had just come out of, um, uh, obviously the dot com. Boom, Bust, right?

Speaker A: Boom.

Speaker C: Uh, and bust. And what happened in Chicago and this, obviously I wasn't here, but, uh, all of Chicago got behind one company, a company you may have heard of called, uh, Divine Intervention. Intervention Divine, just call it Divine. Um, and everybody put money into it. Like, it was like the mayor stood up on Goose island and he raised the hand of the founder and he was like, this is our tech, this is our tech messiah. And like, everybody put money into this company. And so when I bust, it turned out to be sort of a house of cards. Um, everyone lost, right? So it was sort of this collective like, oh, shit, what are we gonna do? Tech's dead. Because everyone put all their time and money into this company. So when I came in 2005, uh, and started the Illinois Technology association with my business partner, Tech next, uh, business partner Terry Howerton, still my business partner. I don't know how, uh, we love each other, but you know, we've been partnered 17 years. Um, he uh, was sort of saying, okay, this thing has happened. There's lots of activity going on these verticals. There's clearly a collective desire to work together and let's find a way to do it. So I used my experiences on the national level, uh, being an evangelist to bring the technology community together through the ITA Illinois Technology Association. Trade associations typically are focused on sort of events and uh, policy. We did events, uh, we didn't do policy on purpose. We very much focused on growing companies. And so early on though, we realized when we were building this community that we, while we were building a club, we didn't have a clubhouse. So we started the first iteration of Tech Nexus, the physical embodiment of Tech Nexus. And Tech Nexus multifaceted now, but in early 2007, uh, long before 1871, long for anything, um, was simply meant to be a place for people, a common watering hole. Right. If you went to the Valley, there used to be a restaurant called Bucks where people went, or there's certain restaurants on University Avenue in Palo Alto where, where the industry would convene or you could walk in and make sure you saw somebody you knew. That's all we were trying to create was a place where you could walk in and go, hey, I don't know you or you, or let's talk or let's find something to do. And it worked well. We were within 30 days of opening. It was a full place all the time. And it evolved into a place where people put their offices and all those sort of things happened on the side. It was almost an accidental incubator, an accidental co working space, but there was co working, um, and so that's what we started Tech Nexus as, um, and has continued. The physical space, which is now called Team working by Tech Nexus, has continued throughout that period of always being true to the idea of it's not meant to be. How do I, you know, give you so much money and how do I take control of you or how do I get pull in the best companies. It was always about how does it be a clubhouse, how does it be a watering hole, how does it. Because physicality is important in networking, in building relationships, etc. And there wasn't that place when we started in 2007.

Speaker B: Totally. I mean you say it was accidental, but I think you were probably one of the only people who could have formed something like that because you were solving a need that didn't exist, um, or a need that existed in Chicago at the time that no one was building towards. Um, and I see also like your unique combination of skills, um, and experiences in your life, you know, would lead you to create this. So my next question is like whether or not you um, see yourself as a specialist or a generalist. And I want to kind of even give a little caveat here that I've been exploring this idea of a specialized generalist where you know, you take two to three skills that are really combined and combine them in a very unique way to build something off of that. Um, so in your case, and obviously I want you to, you know, I'm not going to speak for you, but I see you know, like your skills with networking, um, the specific communities that you were able to build, your experience in, um, you know, the early age of um, you know, SaaS and Internet. What would you kind of, um, would you say you are a specialized general?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting. Um, you know, I think, I think you're much more thoughtful at your age than I was at your age. Right? I don't think I was that thoughtful at the time. But um, if you'd asked me a question. When I came to Chicago, I knew software really well. I knew the software industry deeply. I still know it pretty well. But uh, from a standpoint of the business end of the software industry, I did coding in high school, I did a little bit. I was never a full time coder. I was always sort of more on the business side when I got to it. So I would have said at that time that I was very much a specialist who was running the association or founding the association because it was a way to sort of bring community together and to build on what I believe to be the focus software and software and tech, um, today. Um, I think it's probably a good analogy, right? Specialist, general. General specialist. What do you call it?

Speaker B: Special specialized generalist.

Speaker C: You know, I, um, I've used the experiences of building ecosystems, of building relationships, of building companies, uh, of investing. Uh, I've been an investor long before we started Tech Nexus Investing. I was doing it personally. Um, as I talked about, my family started a company. We put a lot of money in ourselves. And I remember as a teenager my parents making um, decisions in the biotech space around investing and sort of being part of that discussion, uh, and so I've been doing it a long time. Um, so I brought. And then bringing sort of a California perspective. I think one of the things that makes me do well in Chicago and probably you too is you don't have what I call the sort of the, how would you say it nicely Chicago Thames.

Speaker B: I have people say there's no ceiling at times.

Speaker C: Well, there's a ceiling. And I can tell you stories about how my life is threatened by multiple people that you probably know over the years. Uh, but, but in that Chicago, that's sort of, that's the traditional metal of Chicago. But I think Californians tend to be more straightforward. They tend to be either as good or bad. Chicagoans tend not to. Or Midwesterners tend to be. That's great. And even though they don't agree with you and they won't say, they won't have that, that, that conflict with you, where I'm like, let's have the discussion.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker C: If you think I'm a jerk, let's talk about it. If you think I'm wrong, let's talk about it. Let's have an openness that comes from being in California a little bit more, uh, a little more dude. Like the word of dude plays well. Um, so I think you're right. I think it's all those things going forward. Um, I think probably though I'm going back more to a specialist than I was before. I think start a specialist generalized across this series of events even though a, ah, series of fields, even though they were all interrelated. And I'm going back more to a specialist as I want to focus on helping uh, uh, startups grow themselves, ventures grow themselves with capital but also with the experience I've had in the network I have in a more meaningful way.

Speaker B: Totally. No, that's really great advice. Um, so, uh, you know, second to last question here. Um, I have just seen like a recent trend of a lot of uh, you know, young people in the Chicagoland area getting involved in the ecosystem, you know, looking for ways to rebuild it. Um, and you know, continuing to help Chicago uh, grow. You know, I don't think we want to be like the next Silicon Valley. I think we need to be the only Chicago and like, you know, really like focus on what we do well. Um, and I just kind of wanted to hear your thoughts and what you think about that.

Speaker C: Well, two things. One, as it relates to Chicago itself, I've said for a long time, people uh, always say we'll be the next Silicon Valley. That's the Wrong way to reflect on it. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Um, you're never going to be as good as Michael Jordan. You're always going to be in favor if you're trying to lead up to him. Um, so be Steph Curry. Right? Be the next. Be the organization, be the community, be the city that is around the next iteration, what's right for today. And so we have to think about how we be the greatest tech city, not the greatest Silicon Valley out there going forward.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: My advice to people that are networking is back to this question is you got to learn to say no. Right? You could. And I'm his fault of. Anyway, this is in, uh, my 30s is I could spend every single night of the week out going to an event, getting free pizza, meeting some people. It hampers your ability to do your core job. If you're spending that much time doing things. It's fun. It's certainly great. I'd love to go have a beer with you every night or with somebody else every night. But at some point, assume you drink.

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker C: But if you don't, that's fine too. Um, clearly I do. Uh, so, uh, uh, you got to make those choices and be smart about it.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Um, and so too often what I'm seeing in sort of people is networking just because it's cool. And I'm like, stop doing that just because. Cool. It's fun once in a while, but focus on that core job because that hustle is what's going to get you to where you need to get to.

Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. Which is why going back to that crucial advice you gave at the beginning, it's so important. It's a time block. Like, if you see on your calendar that all you're doing is networking and going to these engagements, like, like, are you really taking care of your day to day? Um, I, I think it's an important

Speaker C: element, but especially hard when you have, when you have employees or team members who look and go, why are you spending so much time on those things? I mean, where are you hustling for me exactly? For the company.

Speaker B: So it's really important to be intentional with how you, um, you know, use your day. Um, so not only is this podcast for my audience, it's also for myself. So I'm going to use this time to get some advice from you as well. Um, as you know, I'm a drive capital. I'm building out our pre seed fund here. Um, and you know, I'm, I consider myself A Chicagoan now. Um, you know, I'm really, uh, representing the city. And even though, you know, I've only been here for six years, like, you know, I really want to see this ecosystem grow. Um, and I've been meeting with a lot of founders and, you know, trying to find the right fit for our portfolio. What advice would you give? To myself, someone who's, you know, relatively new in the venture space, um, has this very exciting, uh, position, a lot of responsibility, but also like very, um, you know, motivated to help grow this city.

Speaker C: Well, two things. First off is a personal level. Please stay humble. I think too often, and we don't know each other well enough for me to say that you're not. But I'm saying too often people in

Speaker B: your position get fly too close to the sun. That's really good advice.

Speaker C: Too quickly. And so stay humble and stay grounded and make sure you're doing that. Uh, I think from a Chicago perspective, I'm really glad to see that. As I said, I spent 15 years, or I have spent 17 years running and being a cheerleader for Chicago. I'm to going, glad there's more people coming up to do it. The next generation, if you will. Listen, I'm going to be here for a long time. My wife said we're not going anywhere, but, but, but I'm also glad that it doesn't have to be me all the time or me and a few other people. Um, so I, um, think pick your battles, right? What, what is it you want to be known for and building Chicago? Talk to those others that are doing it and saying, okay, where am I going to focus my attention? Where are you going to focus your attention? How do we collectively do that going forward? Uh, but also make sure that you're part of a larger mission. I think one of the things that's held Chicago back as a technology community at times in much of history is Chicago is replete with all these little different fiefdoms that are out there. They're all doing small little things, right? They're all valuable, but they're all sort of by themselves somewhat not as strong as they could be if they were collective.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: So, so what I would say to you is, as you're doing whatever it is you think is important, how does it fit? How does that puzzle piece fit into the larger picture? And how do those work together towards having more oomph, more strength, more growth, et cetera, as opposed to, well, I'm doing this thing and I don't want to talk to anyone Else, because I'm only focused here. Right? So bring all those pieces together in a collective way, uh, that can drive Chicago going forward as it relates to Chicago externally. One of our problems in Chicago is we don't talk externally about Chicago as a single voice. So one of the things I would say to you as an upcoming leader, I'm going to assume you are as others are. Uh, I know many of your friends are, is you guys all need to be speaking, and as do I need to be speaking from the same playbook. So when we go to New York, when we go to Singapore, we go to San Francisco or we go to Paris, whatever it is, we talk about the same things in a way that gets that message out again and again. Right now, everyone talks about something different, so people go, well, I don't know. I hear lots of things about Chicago from different people. We, as a community, which we've never done well, is speak from that same playbook row in the same direction. And I think if we can do that and make a part of what we're doing, what you're doing, we can be at a very strong pace going forward.

Speaker B: That's really, really great advice. Um, I know it's the line that's over said, but I'll repeat it a lot. Um, I love it. We go further together. Um, so I think that as a community, I totally agree. We need to find unique ways to work together. Um, you know, find ways to help each other. Access, um, to information is really important to me. So I'm, you know, always trying to be very public, which is why I created a medium like this and sharing my learnings and lessons. Um, you know, like, I, I want more young people to get into the space as I have. So I try and share my playbook as often as I can. How are you doing that, um, publicly, really?

Speaker C: Is the podcast the way you think you're getting more people involved, think the listeners are coming in and, uh, uh, and then you're attracting them to sort of being.

Speaker B: I'd say that's an element of it. Um, I do host a lot of get um togethers in Chicago as well. Um, and to your point, like, it's never just for investors, it's never just for founders. Um, you know, I try and bring creatives into it. I try and bring athletes. I try and bring, like, these different groups into the space. Um, and I know at times, you know, um, having a lack of structure can make it seem like, okay, like, you know, what am I going to get out of this? But you'd be surprised. Like, people naturally find ways to connect with each other and find ways to help each other. And then, of course, I do like, the more exclusive things at times. Like if it's like a generative AI event like, I just hosted, um, last week. Um, but still, even with that, I mean, you know, because AI had such an interesting week last week with the chat bot coming out and that Avatar app, um, a lot of people just wanted to learn about the space, and I wanted to use that as a time to educate and, um, help people not fear, um, you know, new technology. So we had a lot of people, um, turn up for that. But, uh, to your point, yeah, you

Speaker C: get invited to something.

Speaker B: I'm hoping you're going to start coming. Yeah, no, please. Um, we have better things than pizza, so. No, we'll make sure to get you, um, at those events.

Speaker C: Well, you should be suffering a little bit. You are in your 20s. Can't live. You can't live in, you know, cocktails and champagne. Champagne and dream.

Speaker B: No, we do, um, but, no, it's very educational. Like, I love my, uh, Fireside Channel chats. We'll for sure have you on those. Um, once our new office opens, I want to do, um, more stuff focused with other leaders in Chicago. So we'd love to have you there.

Speaker C: Happy to do it.

Speaker B: Amazing. Fred, it was a pleasure. This was everything and more than I really wanted it to be. So thank you so much. This was a lot of fun.

Speaker C: Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Happy to talk anytime, and I really appreciate what you're doing for the community, and please keep it up.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you, Fred.