Rerelease: The High Performance Traits of Stand Out Leaders | Jake Humphrey | UNSCRIPTED Ep. 335

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello. Welcome to the Unscripted Podcast where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service leadership and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the Unscripted Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. I'm thrilled to welcome a very special guest today, Jake Humphrey. Jake is a presenter, entrepreneur and investor. You likely recognize Jake from his role as the founder and co host of the High Performance Podcast, which has featured world class athletes, entrepreneurs and business leaders and is listened to by millions worldwide. Jake has also covered major global sporting events, including the Olympics, and was the face of BT Sports Premier League for a decade. In addition, he's the founder of Whisper, one of Europe's fastest growing production companies. Last but certainly not least, as Jake shares on LinkedIn, he's also the dad of two amazing M kids and husband to Harriet. He says, primarily, I'm a person who loves to explore, to help people find their purpose in a world of so much negativity, to try and be a, uh, beacon of positive encouragement. You certainly do that. Jake, thanks so much for being here with us today to talk about the high performance traits and of standout leaders. Jake, I had the opportunity to hear you speak, uh, this past January at uh, IFS Sales Kickoff. And one of the people you spoke about, uh, was a phenomenal woman, Dame Stephanie, uh, or Steve Shirley, who recently passed away after an incredible 91 years of life. As soon as you spoke of her, I will be honest, I wasn't familiar with her. But as soon as I heard you speak of her, I ordered her uh, memoir, Let It Go. Um, and for those of you who, uh, may not be familiar with Dame Stephanie, she was a child refugee of the Holocaust who went on to become an IT entrepreneur. She founded what began as an all woman software company in 1962, pioneered remote work, all while balancing, ah, being a mom to her son who had autism. Just an incredible, incredible human, ah, being. Um, and I find her story truly, uh, inspiring in the context of standout leaders. Um, would you share with our audience what was most impactful to you about Dame Stephanie's, uh, story and the time you were able to spend with her?

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you, Sarah. Um, a lovely question and a lovely place to start this conversation. Actually. I, um, think for me it was the conviction that she still showed. You know, we spoke to her when she was approaching her 90th birthday. We spoke for a good hour and a half and you know, when you, you sort of see that steely glint in Someone's eyes that they really believe the things that they're saying and they want to sort of leave a legacy, leave a message for others. I think she was in that sort of a space. And one thing that I've always been interested when I have conversations on high performance and meet people in real life is like, what stage of your life are you at? So I worked for a long time hosting Formula one here in the UK for the BBC, and I worked with an amazing guy called Eddie Jordan. And at the time, when he was running a Formula one team, I think by all accounts, he was pretty bombastic. He took no prisoners. He was probably quite hard work. He had very high standards. Yet I encountered him in a period in his life where he'd retired from the sport, he was sailing around the world with his wife and he was working as a pundit, and that brought him a kind of freedom. I was really lucky to spend that time with him. And I got the same impression, actually, when. When talking to Steve is like, she wears the scars of battle, right? But the battles were over. She'd won them. Um, you know, she very much broke down doors that you, Sarah, are able to walk through, that my daughter Florence, will one day be able to walk through, that my wife, Harriet is able to walk through. And I think that's really, um, something that she got great comfort from. Like, she was.

Speaker B: She.

Speaker A: She'd reached the point where she was able to look back, see what she'd done and think, you know what? I took a lot of gambles in my life and most of them paid off. Um, and I think the biggest gamble of all, really, was backing herself. And the big lesson. I would love if people haven't listened to the conversation with. With Steve or Stephanie, if they did listen to it, um, and even if they didn't, and they just heard you and me conversing about her, I think the biggest thing I'd like to take away is her relationship with Risk. She had this lovely quote, I'm sure you remember, where she said, risk is not as risky as it first seems. Risk is a necessary ingredient if you want to live a fulfilling life. And I think it's a really powerful statement of hers. And, um, yeah, I was really sad to see the news that she passed away. But listen, if we can leave a legacy like Dame Stephanie, I don't think anyone who's done what she's done ever passes away. Right?

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. You know what you just said about that conviction, uh, and that kind of working through what you have and getting to a point where you can sort of reflect. Um, it makes me wonder how much of that comes from staying true to yourself, uh, and um, taking those risks, but also really, um, believing in yourself and following your intuition. Uh, um, but absolutely an incredible, incredible story. Um, now Dame Stephanie is one of many, many incredible leaders you've had the opportunity to, uh, interview. Would you mind sharing a couple of other, um, stories or anecdotes from those conversations that stand out in your mind?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I'll probably start with what you just mentioned there, Sarah, which was that, you know, Dame Stephanie was very much herself. You know, she operated in the 1960s when it was very hard to be yourself because nobody wanted to employ women. Women were not able to do the things they're able to do today. And the, I suppose really the fact that she called herself Steve tells you the kind of world that she lived in for those that were confused by that is because calling herself Steve was the only way to get emails sent back. Um, but there's a lovely phrase that I saw a while back and it was be yourself so people looking for you can find you. And I think what's lovely about that is everywhere I look, in business and in communication and in media and particularly sadly online these days, I really ask myself, are you really being yourself? You know, is this post from someone being real? Uh, whether it's written by AI or written by your ego, is it really you? Is it really what you're searching for? And I think the biggest standout trait that I would say with the people that I've spoken to on high performance is that they have reached where they've reached being themselves. And the reason why that matters is because let's imagine that your passion is proving other people wrong, um, or beating your neighbor, or trying to win some ethereal race that doesn't even exist in the first place. You know, what is this race? There's no finish line right to this race that we're all, we're all think we're running. And the problem is if you spend your life in that kind of ego driven, competitive mindset, you get to the end and I promise you, you realize, oh, there was no race that it was, it was just all about fulfilling my own dreams, my own ambitions, being true to myself as often as possible. So I think that's the first is very important. And I think the other thing that's kind of tied to that is, you know, like when you go to a party and you don't know many people there and you don't really feel like you can be yourself, maybe because you're with people who are, uh, different social status, or that maybe you're spending time with some senior leaders in your workplace, that you better be kind of on your best behavior. I don't know about you, Sarah, but that's exhausting. Right? There's only so long you can keep up that front for. So I think that true high performers are people who have been themselves because that's the only way you actually can find out really what you can achieve in life. Because if you spend all of your time racked with sort of fear and doubt and trying to be someone else to impress other people, which is a nonsense waste of your time anyway, you just run out of energy like you do run out of the passion that's required to really find out what your limits are. And slowly the dream kind of fades and you melt away. So the people that we often speak to on high performance, whether it's a chef like Gordon Ramsay, whether it's an amazing entrepreneur like, uh, Dame Stephanie Shirley, whether it's an athlete like Usain Bolt or a Formula one driver, uh, like Lewis Hamilton, they, they have, they have had to be themselves.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: To sustain that performance over a long period of time. And I think the other thing that really is very important, and I love to talk about this, and I think I mentioned actually when I did your kickoff event, is the importance of optimism. You know, we all have a choice, right, in life whether to walk into the room and be a thermostat or a thermometer. And the difference, of course, is that, uh, a thermometer tells the temperature in the room. A thermostat actively controls the temperature in the room. And what I find with high performance is there are people who've decided that they are going to control the temperature in the room. If the room is negative, they're not just going to be negative and go with the flow. They're going to try and inject some positivity into that room. If people are a bit down, if people are struggling, if life seems hard. High performers are the people that come in and act as the thermostat. They change the temperature in that room. And that's often a difficult and challenging thing for people because it requires a certain level of resilience to keep on going despite the negativity, despite the setbacks, despite the challenges. So really, resilience is the sort of high performance superpower that I guess I've cottoned onto in the last few years. And sometimes it's hard when you talk about resilience because I, I hear this, my son plays in the local football team and I often see these parents saying to their 10 year old kids, you need to be more resilient. And I think to myself, your child has no idea how to be more resilient. It's not just, it's not like a skill they can just create out of nowhere. The answer, actually, Sarah, is to be more optimistic because optimists just think that good things are going to happen. And if you think that, uh, good things are around the corner or that bad days are going to replace by good, or that even when you've had a challenging 24 hours, the next 24 hours might be better. The thing that means you go back for more and you climb back in the ring or get back on the horse. Whatever analogy you want to use is optimism is the fact that you think, well, maybe tomorrow is going to be good. So chasing optimism, I think is so important because it builds our resilience, but staying true to ourselves and not engaging in a fight or a competition that not only doesn't exist, but also you're never going to win because there's always going to be something at the end. I saw a social media post from a fellow podcaster the other day and they posted, I want to be the person everyone hates competing against. And I thought, what an awful way to view life and to view business. Interview success. My take is your success is my success. Like, if other people are doing great things, be delighted for them because the fact they've done it means you can also do it. It means it's possible. Right. Um, so I think a lot of the sort of traditional things that we're taught in the business world, in the business setting are probably pretty out of date now. And that's why I love having these sorts of conversations because I just like to kind of bring the conversation into the 21st century.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's so important. A couple of things, uh, that struck me about what you just shared. I think this idea of resilience, it made me also think about how being yourself helps with building resilience. Right. Because you mentioned how exhausting it is when you feel that you have to be something you're not. When you're putting on a mask or a front when you go into these interactions. It's really hard to maintain resilience when you're pretending in that way. The other thing that struck me about, um, that is, and, um, going back to Dame Stephanie's example Because I just loved her book. When she, uh, followed her path, you know, her genuine journey and she was uh, herself, it opened the doors for her to help so many people. You know, there's so much power in leadership. Once you really lean into being who you are, to give other people the freedom to do that as well. And you know, it's um, there's a huge trickle down effect in that that I think is just so, uh, positive and very much needed to your point, to kind of update the rulebook, if you will, that a lot of folks are playing by.

Speaker A: Um, I think you're totally right actually in what you say. And I hope that you're heavily involved at the very top level of business. I hope that you can, hope you can vouch for the fact that actually I think in many ways leadership is changing. And for a long time leaders felt that they had to be the most important person in the room. And there's a, there's a lovely line that I also like, which is when you talk to a manager, you get the feeling they're important. When you talk to a leader, you get the feeling that you're important. And I think that is also something for people to take out of today. Like how much of your time is spent trying to make yourself feel important. How much of your time is spent making other people feel important?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It really. That summarizes very well that shift that is underway. You know, it's.

Speaker A: And you do feel it is, do you?

Speaker B: I do, absolutely. I think it's very clear. Um, and I can almost sense within 10 minutes of talking to a leader kind of. Are they of the, I always say old school and I don't mean that as any connotation to age, but just mentality. Right. One that I think at the end of the day, Jake, it's fear based. Uh, like you said, it's the, this idea of scarcity. If I'm not the most successful, someone else will be. Not that idea of abundance that we can all be successful. And if I surround myself with talented, strong teams and I treat them well, we'll all be better for that. Right? Um, and we talk a lot, uh, about the challenges that a lot of businesses, industries, um, have with, you know, attracting really, uh, strong talent today. And I think so much of that comes down to people are not as willing as they once were to, you know, go to work for someone else. They want to feel that they're part of something. They want to feel that they're, um, valued and heard and respected. And the leaders to your point, that focus more on how everyone around them feels than how they feel, um, have the most success. Uh, and I think ultimately those things are not mutually exclusive. Right? Leaders that care more about how others feel, ultimately, I think end up feeling better, you know, um, and I think

Speaker A: we struggle with this for a long time because people in business weren't able to put a price or a value on creating this kind of a culture. You know, my other hat, Sarah, is I'm the founder of a production business called the Whisper Group. It's one of the biggest, um, production companies in Europe. And for a long time when we were prioritizing, you know, yoga after work on a Monday evening or leaving work early and everyone going out together for, you know, a bit of a drink and a bit of fun in a beer garden somewhere on a Friday afternoon or when we were handing out free food in the office, there was a period where people thought this was a kind of a gimmick and like you were using it to almost cover up for the fact that there was flaws in other areas of your business. And that was never the case. It's like, I think that the true test of a business is how you operate when it really matters. So during COVID is a good example. At, uh, Whisper, obviously everyone had to stay at home. So we immediately opened up access, um, to counsellors because we knew people were struggling with their mental health and the business managed to find a chunk of money that was going to, um, be set aside for people that were really struggling financially to make their bills meet that month and they could access that money with no questions asked and it didn't need to be repaid. And obviously we had in the UK, the government furlough scheme. So people were earning 80% of their salary and for some people they couldn't afford that at the bottom rung of our business. So our CEO removed himself from the, from the, uh, from the books and his entire salary went to support those at the bottom of the business to make sure they still took 100% of the salary. So what's really interesting is when we entered Covid, we had, I think roughly 60 staff. At the end of lockdown, when the world started moving again, we had 150. And I honestly think we grew in that time when, when a lot of other similar companies either shrunk or died because of the way that we treated our people. Actually when it mattered, when I know for a fact that other rivals of ours were simply laying everyone off, taking as much money out of the bank as quickly as possible in case they lost the business and the directors wanted to protect themselves. We did something different. And I don't think people forget that. So actually how you treat your people in those times of challenge and turmoil is very, very important.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah, it was a huge tipping point, right. That just demanded more humanity. And you know, it really separated out, uh, and it's not just about the businesses, uh, that are willing to meet those needs because that's driven by the leaders who are running those businesses. Right. And there's no way to fake caring, uh, in that way. You either do or you don't. You either, um, care about your people in that way and believe that that type of humanity has a long term benefit, uh, or you don't. Um, and I think that's kind of the shift, uh, we're talking about. And Covid certainly brought that, um, to light. So Jake, through the conversations you've had with these remarkable guests, uh, the goal is to uncover the secrets behind high performance and explore how we can all become the best version of ourselves. Uh, I'm curious if you would be willing to share something you personally have adopted or changed as a result of what you've learned over the course of doing this that has helped you become a better you.

Speaker A: Yeah. What a great question. Um, I think the biggest thing for me, Sarah, was that for a long time I thought unless I was absolutely killing myself at uh, the kind of the altar of hard work that I was never going to achieve, my own version of high performance is kind of how I judged myself all the time. Has the week been a success? Have I given my everything? Have I given my all? Anytime that I was relaxing, I thought it was cool to make sure I was reading a self help book or reading a management book or secretly making notes in my phone about the things that I could do to improve myself or my business. And um, as soon as we went on holiday, I was famous for saying to Harriet, my wife, after the first day, I'm ready to get home and crack on. And she used to laugh and be like, are you ready to say that thing? And I basically had to learn that. And, and this was called, I saw what changed it for me was I saw a graph, right? And you know, you, funny things can impact you, can't they? So for years people are saying, oh, it's important to make sure that, you know, everything's in balance. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's because you don't achieve the things I'm achieving. You're not on the path that I'm um, on. Then I saw this great graph and it was kind of, it was a straight line and it had a, it had a curve upwards on the top and then a curve down like a traditional bell curve and then exactly the same underneath. And it said something like, you know, the smartest people understand that the amount of effort that you put into your recovery and your wellness needs to equate to the, the amount that you put into your performance and your successes. And it's only then that I thought, uh, so I need to approach the recovery and the downtime and the calm elements of my life with the same focus as I approach all of what I consider to be the sort of high performing sides of my life, all the businesses and all the bits and pieces. Because I kind of think that a lot of people make this mistake of thinking they will fully invest in their work life, they'll fully invest in their relationships in the office, they'll fully invest in their business decisions. And then the other side of life, relationships with partners, relationships with kids, conversations with parents, time spent with friends, periods on holiday, doing things they're passionate about. As long as I get all the first stuff right, that other stuff will just all happen. It'll all just fall into place. And it doesn't. You end up sitting on the sofa at home scrolling through your phone doom scrolling nonsense, thinking why? Why do I feel a bit empty and a bit useless? I'll tell you, I'll go and do more work, then I'll feel some self worth again and you end up in this awful spiral of either working or loathing yourself a bit. And I think I definitely fell into that place. And, and it was seeing that graph made me think, hold on. So I, I need to approach the other side of life the same as I do the side of life that I think I'm nailing. So then it became about right. And, and I don't think we should apologize, by the way, for taking the parts of our life that isn't work related or business based or whatever and optimizing them. I think it's important. I don't think we should be emb about optimizing relationships with our partners or our kids or our parents. You know, we should go for meals with our other halves and sit down and say, look, where am I failing at the moment? Like where is, where are things a struggle? Where can I do better? Am I supporting you well enough? You know, it's okay to do that kind of stuff. You can't expect that that side of your life is going to flow unless you give it the time and the attention that it needs. So more time spent with Harriet, more time spent with the kids, more time not just spent with them, but actually thinking, what's the cool thing that we can do? You know, nurturing relationships with male friends, which I didn't do for a long time. And I think there's an issue there for a lot of men that they end up in a position where they, they feel successful but lonely, which is a bad place to be. Uh, you know, from my experience, and you may think differently, but the women in my life are so much better at spending time with each other and relating to each other and talking about the things that are spitting, ah, them out. Whereas I was in a world of just buckling that up because nobody needed to know that stuff. Um, so that was a really important learning lesson for me and one that I, that I think is important for people to understand because the world is geared up to tell us that unless we're, unless we're grafting really hard, then we're, then we're failing. And actually the same amount of effort needs to be put in for that balance is very, very important.

Speaker B: Yeah. Was that you got it for you at first?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, absolutely. Oh, Sarah. Awfully hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, I'm in the midst of it, Jake, if I'm being honest. You know, I'm 43. Um, but I have learned so much about myself in the last couple of years, and I had a lot of childhood trauma, so I'm starting to realize, like, a lot of that drive is a symptom of that. Right. And it's, it's good to an extent. Right. When you can temper it and you understand it, etc. Um, um, I'm not great at rest. Uh, but I'm working on it and I'm getting better. Um, um. And I think it is incredibly important, but I think when you're built a certain way, that is a really hard, ah, lesson to, like, truly take in and then action. Um, um. Because to your point, it's so easy to default back to, like. Okay, well, no, I, But I really have to get to this. I need to make time for this. And what always suffers is, is, you know, those other things that ultimately, really, truly are more important than anything else.

Speaker A: True. And also there's so much, there's so much comfort in being busy, right? Because, like, you know, the secret to being successful in business? I mean, you've done it, right? You've lived it, you've got the T shirt, you know, you're a great advert for, uh, how someone can make their mark in the, in the, in the world of business. Right. So therefore all, every time you feel a bit uneasy because you're sitting with your own thoughts, you can, you can just be busy again because you know how to be successful when you're busy. So you go and be busy, you go and be successful. You feel good and then you think, okay, I'm all right. But what, what you've not dealt with is the ability to sit silently and go, right. How do I feel about my life and myself and the childhood trauma thing? And you know, thanks for sharing. That is a very interesting topic for me because I think that maybe 80% of the people that we've sat across from on high performance, once you start talking to them about what drives them to do the things they do, they end up talking about things that happened when they were younger. Normally. Mhm. Challenging, difficult, heartbreaking, awful hard things that happened when they were younger. And I do believe that childhood trauma lights a fire in people that those who haven't been through that trauma just can't relate to or just don't feel right. But then it's also very important to realize that that also comes at a cost.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: The constant, the fire being lit. But also you're constantly to feed and, and keep that fire going because that's where so much of your self worth is. Right. Um, and actually just to, just to stop for a period is the most difficult and challenging thing. But I think actually, and I hope this is the case for you, once you've stopped and taken stock and realized where you are, then I think you can go again. But you go again in the knowledge that achieving great things in business is not, is not your everything anymore. It's part of who you are. And this realization that I think you only get to around the age that you and I are. I'm a little older than you. I'm 47 this year. I thought for a long time and again, some challenging things in my childhood I thought were really bad for me. It's only now that I realize I would not want to go through them again and I wouldn't wish them on anyone else. But just because they were hard for me, it doesn't mean they were necessarily bad for me.

Speaker B: Mhm. Mm.

Speaker A: And I think that's also an important thing for people to understand. You know, a lot of the things that you have done in your life, you may never have experienced, never Achieved, never seen. If it wasn't for some of the things you went through when you were younger.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's same. I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it. Um, but I am on a quest to understand it all better and to just, like you said, work on that balance. Right, yeah. Um, yeah, because it's so important. Um, okay, Jake, last question is. Uh, so I am a huge believer in the power of curiosity and, um, I think what is often just a very underrated, uh, value of listening. Um, so in the interviews that you've conducted, the great conversations you, uh, have had the honor of having, um, what have you learned about the art of asking good questions and actively listening? Um, that leaders listening to this might benefit from considering?

Speaker A: Yes, Sarah, what a brilliant final question. I mean, it's the font of everything great, right? The ability to listen to other people, the ability to see a different point of view, the ability to, um, empathize and see the world through someone else's eyes. I think that for a long time, what we thought leadership was right, was having the answers. You know, you were, uh, the boat at the front of the convoy, and all people had to do was follow you and you would get them through those choppy waters. And it's not the way to lead because all it leaves is the boats behind you, having arrived where they needed to go, but no idea how they got there. And how does that develop other people? How does that create a business where everyone in that business is improving again and better all the time? I see leadership much more as a lighthouse right where you're there going, look, be careful of these risks and these dangers and find your way across. And I think that what we have to understand when it comes to that is that as leaders, you have to hold your beliefs lightly. I love that phrase because for a long time, leaders were seen as the ones that held their views really tightly. And this is the direction of our business, this is the direction of the industry. These are the things that we're going to achieve, and this is how we're going to achieve them. And actually, the very best leaders are the ones that go right. I, I don't actually know where this business is going to be in five years time. I want to have my opinions challenged and changed by you. I want you to come to me with a different point of view. I want the ability to stop and listen. I think you know, Mark Moffat, who, um, I'm good friends with, is an absolute master of having his opinion changed. And I would say, be very wary of leaders, and not just leaders in business, you know, leaders in the free world. Let's talk about politicians for a minute. Be very wary of politicians who have a super firm idea of how the. And are refusing to listen to anybody else's point of view because the ability to have your mind changed actually is a, is an indication of quite what a smart person you are, not someone who rigidly sticks to certain beliefs. And I think your idea of, of why this matters for everyone is. I remember interviewing Johnny Wilkinson, and if anyone's listening to this in the uk, they'll know him. He's the most famous rugby player ever to come from our country. He won the, uh, Rugby World cup for England in 2003. Um, I said to him at the end of our conversation, what's your secret to m a high performance life? And he said, exploration. And I do wonder, uh, like, what do we leave on the table when we're done? Like, this idea of being brave enough to explore and push our boundaries and see what else is out there. And really, if high performance as a concept stands for anything, it stands for not leaving people on their deathbed with these ghosts of missed opportunities floating around, saying, if only you'd have just been brave enough to explore this, if only you'd have had the ability to chase after that thing that you thought you weren't quite capable of achieving. Imagine what you could have done. So I think keep exploring is the, is the secret to so much success? For sure.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much, Jake. Um, everyone be sure to check out high performance on your favorite podcast platform. And, uh, be sure to follow Jake on LinkedIn for his very thoughtful, very motivational content. Really appreciate the time.

Speaker A: Sarah, thank you so much for such great questions. It's lovely to see you. Thank you.

Speaker B: For more information on this year's standout 50 leaders and a variety of other thought leadership content, check out futureof fieldservice.com the podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com as always, thank you for listening. It.