She Applied to 200 Jobs Before Landing EasyJet - Jessica Houston

Jessica Houston: Had to lean very heavily on my network and relationships to kind of get a step in, get into an interview. I think I applied for 200 jobs

Host: over, uh, today we have got none other than Jessica Houston, who is the marketing strategy and operations lead across EMEA for EasyJet, one of Europe's most iconic challenger brands.

Co-host: You've hit a real hot topic, which is so often the big brand idea is all well and good, but some of the real tangible benefits that you've seen in the examples.

Jessica Houston: The one thing that we're working on at the moment is how do we activate our brand across all of our teams in the business and particularly within our customer experience.

Host: She's built a career across some fascinating stops from PwC to the Body Shop, before landing at EasyJet, where she's helped scale the marketing team. How does the intersection of your capability and thought process around learning intersect with AI? What are you doing in that area?

Jessica Houston: I think AI will fundamentally reshape the industry because I think some people can find that scary. I think it's a real opportunity for us.

Host: She believes that process is genuinely sexy and somehow also has time to drive. Trained for the London Marathon and learned to dj.

Jessica Houston: I definitely had some anxiety around what was next and I think it came at a very, almost like, annoying point because we'd built the team into something so great and I loved working at the brand and I loved the team that I worked with. So it felt like such a shame to then have everything kind of crashing down around you.

Host: Um, let's get right in there. Hi, Jess, it's lovely to have you on.

Jessica Houston: Thank you so much for having me.

Host: It's an absolute pleasure. Jasper. We've just got into March, so how's it all going in 2026 for you?

Jessica Houston: So, yeah, it's been a really great start to the year for me. I think things have been definitely going fast paced. Work is busy. Life outside of work is busy too. I'm actually training for the London Marathon at the moment, so, you know, trying to do that on top of everything else that it's been busy. But, yeah, really fun.

Host: Tell us a bit more about that. Well, like, what's the regime and why did you decide to do it in the first place? And like, what does that mean practically for you on the ground?

Jessica Houston: I was one of the lucky people who got through on the ballots, so I wasn't expecting to. Um, I remember actually I was on holiday in Egypt last year when I got the email through to say I'd got through on the ballot. So it Kind of felt like.

Host: Did that excite you or scare you?

Jessica Houston: Both. Um, yeah, definitely a bit of nerves there. Uh, I've done a lot of half marathons before, but I've never run further than a half marathon. So, yeah, definitely a new challenge for me.

Host: And you started a running club in your local area as well, right?

Jessica Houston: Yes, last year. So we moved to Radlett at the beginning this time last year actually, and we started the run club just as a way to meet people in the local community, get people out and running and focusing on the fitness. And it's been, um, We've had a really good uptake, actually. It's been really good.

Co-host: So we need to get the just giving link or whatever it is and include it when we post out about this recording. Yes, we should do that. Uh, and so I, I never quite made it to a marathon, but of course I do the sprintathon, so that's like cheating. But anyway, it raises a lot of money for cancer research. That's all good. But, um, what does it. What does running a marathon symbolize to you? What, what's. There must be a meaning of some description behind it. What's that?

Jessica Houston: I think for me, and I think this is true in all of this, I'm a very sporty person. So all of the sport that I do, I think it's about proving to myself that I can do hard things. I, um, think, you know, just being able to take on a new challenge and push yourself to do that. The resilience you need to get through that, particularly your mindset as well. I think it's really important to help you get through to that end goal, um, is something that for me, I think also really helps me at work as well. So bringing that kind of mindset through into the workplace and trying new things and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and pushing your boundaries to understand where your growth could go. So.

Co-host: Love that. The, um. Apparently the technical term for pushing yourself out of the comfort zone is called hormesis. Doing difficult things to prep you for even more difficult things. You know, the core resilience. Um, just one, One more follow up then is because I'm curious, is, uh, so you are a resilient person. So where do you think that sort of comes from? Is that from sport or what's the. What has made you a resilient person?

Jessica Houston: I definitely think there's an aspect that comes from sport and, you know, having grown up dancing and then, um, been really into running and sport, that's definitely played a part. I Think the other side of the equation is probably just from work. Kind of going through my career having experienced lots of change and having to kind of navigate that change has really also built on that resilience. I think resilience is such a skill set that every marketer needs today.

Host: M. Jess, I'm really intrigued by what you've just said there in and around the um, the journey that you've had across your professional career. And I know you've, you've moved a few companies and I know you've landed in a fantastic spot at the moment which we'll come on to. But tell us a little bit about the journey and, and more. So at those pivot mom you able to navigate them.

Jessica Houston: So I, so I studied marketing, um, so probably one of the few as we know. Um, so I kind of chose a career in marketing. So that I think gave me a really good baseline and grounding. I remember leaving uni and thinking I would go into a bit more of a creative role. So I was kind of targeting Disney, Warner Brothers, Channel 4, those types of companies. And I actually ended up in B2B professional services. So uh, PwC a little bit different, Very different. Not Wesley I was expecting, but I knew it was such a great brand and um, I got a really good vibe through the interview process and the people that I met.

Host: So wasn't PwC like the best place to work for like many, many, many, many years? Probably still is quite frankly.

Jessica Houston: And I think actually my experience is it's one of the best places to work. I learned so much during my time there. I ah, started in financial services but was very much able to kind of move around and try different roles and different teams. Um, so that was the foundations, I think of my career and how it built me up and um, gave me all of the kind of technical learning and the soft skills that I've needed, which have been really helpful in um, my career so far. I then I think in the back of my head always had this niggle that I wanted to try consumer marketing. Um, so it came a time at PwC where I decided that I wanted to make that jump, which actually was a very difficult thing to do. Um, I had to lean very heavily on my network and relationships to kind of get a step in and um, get into an interview. I think I applied for 200 jobs over maybe like a year and a half, so kind of on and off. But I, um, was successful, was able to move over to the body shop and then that was a whole other journey that I Went on. So I think the fundamentals of marketing always stay the same. It's how you apply them in different business scenarios. Um, and then, yeah, at, ah, the body shop. That was, um, quite a turbulent time to join, but we still had fun. We had a great team around us and, um, we did the best that we could do with what we had. Um, but eventually it got to a point where I decided that I wanted to leave and moved over to EasyJet.

Host: And you've been there now for a good few years?

Jessica Houston: Yep, I'm in my third year now. It's gone so fast.

Host: Oh, amazing.

Co-host: How many interviews did you go through? You said 200.

Jessica Houston: 200.

Co-host: 200.

Jessica Houston: Applications.

Co-host: Applications, okay. So dogged determination in that sense. But you mentioned networking, so let's just talk a little bit about that because it's such a fundamental to managing a career these days. What's your take? What's your advice? Let's just have a dig into networking for a moment.

Jessica Houston: Yeah, sure. So my. Something I actually learned from my dad, it's, um, something that he always kind of drummed into me to really focus on and spend time building relationships. One of the most important things in business and in your personal life, um, and at PwC, that was also front and center of our values. And I think relationships are fundamentally how you get the work done. So I think I had really good kind of people to look up to in work and that helped then shape how I approached it. So I think I was quite a shy person growing up. So I really have had to learn how to put myself into situations, be comfortable, comfortable with networking, which I know a lot of people struggle with. Um, and it was just time, I think, and practice, um, feeling confident to go and introduce yourself to new people and just start that conversation. But I definitely think for me, relationships is one of the biggest things that people need to focus on. Um, I think Covid has changed how people approach that. A lot of young people that I speak to don't have the same kind of opportunities or the same like, human interaction with new people. So I think they have to really take it on themselves to go and find those opportunities and spaces where they can meet new people.

Co-host: It's such a good observation. Last night I was talking to somebody and they said networking back in the day was easy. It was just the people I grew up with around me. But interesting that PWC sort of made it overt because it's sometimes seen as a bit of a. Oh, they're shy away from amazing. Well, let's just jump to EasyJet then. So you're leading marketing operations across EMEA. It's a big old job. So tell us a bit more about what that entails.

Jessica Houston: So I think even my time, so I've been there two years, I'm in my third year but the scope of my team and role has actually changed quite a lot considerably over that time. I think before I joined um the team was rebuilding after Covid so There was about eight people in marketing. We're now at 80 people in marketing. So huge growth over the last couple of years and obviously with that comes a change in requirements and how we work and the kind of operating model to support that system of 80 people. So my role um originally started as very much strategy and planning. So um, supporting our nine EMEA markets to um, go through our annual marketing planning process making sure that we're surfacing insights for them and helping them really shape what that narrative looks like on a year to year basis. We also look after our ah hero promotional campaigns so making sure that the teams have got everything that they need and there's consistency across the markets but also um, scope for them to have local nuance too. We also looked after product propositions and partnerships. Um, so that was just at the beginning when I started I think because the team has scaled so much there was a real kind of ambition and um, opportunity to bring in the operations as a bit more of a formal role as well. And for me I haven't seen this a lot in other businesses but I think having strategy and operations together is kind of quite magical M because the strategy is all about setting direction and understanding what we're trying to achieve. But if you have that without the operational system in place then it's very difficult to be able to deliver that uh, successfully. So with me having my hat on with strategy and operations it means I've got the full picture of how we go about doing that.

Host: Today's program is brought to you by two fantastic organizations. First up is Studio Space, a leading on demand marketing agency platform. Studio Space gives marketers complete control over their projects from matching the right agency to your brief, to managing contracts and invoicing and even tracking all of your spend data all in the one place. They take care of everything and it's totally hassle free. They even guarantee the work. So check out Studio Space today. Our ah, second sponsor is the Marketing Skills Trust, a charity with a mission to make marketing a better place for everyone. They provide grants to help create a more equitable industry and support initiatives that really do drive Diversity, inclusion and create opportunity. The Trust has been instrumental in leveling up the marketing skills across the board and do take a look at their website for more information. Now let's get on with the show.

Co-host: Well, you've hit a real hot topic, which is so often the big brand idea is all well and good, but doesn't manifest. You know, it's just. And the brand is the sum of all the experiences a customer has of it. So it's sort of fixed at source with you. So can you, can you put your some of the real tangible benefits that you've seen? Any examples where, you know, otherwise it might have drifted or not been as successful?

Jessica Houston: The one thing that we're working on at the moment is, um, how do we activate our brand across all of our teams in the business and particularly within our customer experience and the end to end journey as well. Um, so we know brand is everything that customers think, feel and say about us. So, you know, how do we bring that to life for them and make sure that it's relevant in every touch point. And again, I think that kind of plays into the operational mindset of understanding how the full picture works. What is that, uh, end to end journey and then how do you pepper in the right materials and training for the teams to be able to deliver that customer experience for our customers?

Host: I find it interesting. So when I think about EasyJet, I can't help but think about your founder, Stelios. Um, and in the early days when you guys were on TV, I don't remember you recall the EasyJet television, uh, program that it was and things like that. I mean, did you think, you know, what has been the influence of your founder? Does it still live and breathe today or do you feel like you've kind of moved on? How does that sort of, that dynamic of having a really visible founder back in the early days, I know things have changed dramatically since then, but does that, does legacy still sort of play out?

Jessica Houston: Yes, I think legacy plays a huge part in the business. I think everyone at, uh, EasyJet is kind of brought on that journey. As soon as you kind of come into the business, you, um, take a step back and like think about how the brand was born. So, yeah, I think, I think EasyJet's such a strong brand in the UK, in the airspace, um, and we're definitely a challenger brand as well. So having that challenger mindset through everything that we do has been really exciting. It's quite entrepreneurial as a culture.

Host: So localization is quite critical. So do you feel that across The EMEA markets, there are different customer needs that you're tapping into?

Jessica Houston: Absolutely.

Host: Give us some examples of how that works.

Jessica Houston: Um, so well. So in terms of our model, we are pretty decentralized in marketing. So I sit centrally and we do have the central team looking at the kind of high level view of, you know, the, the business direction, what are we trying to achieve? But each of our local markets have their own individual local marketing strategy. Um, there are consistencies that we make sure that we are adopting across every market in terms of creative and how our brand shows up. But yeah, the local markets are definitely given freedom to really think about the particular customers in that market. What's the competition like, how do we respond to that, and what's the right marketing plan and tactics to be able to deliver against that.

Co-host: Come back to EasyJet. We could just hover there. But I, um, want to go back to Body Shop because you sort of said as much. It was tough, you know, it was turbulent, uh, difficult times maybe. But of course those are the times that really shape you and where you learn the most. So tell us what, to the extent you can, what were the learnings of that experience for you?

Jessica Houston: Yes, absolutely. I think for me, the Body shot was probably one of the biggest learning curves of my career. Um, and it possibly wasn't what I was expecting when I stepped through the door, but there were a lot of learnings to take. So I think the first thing, and I think I heard Mark, you talk about this at an event years ago. Um, but I think realizing that restructuring is a natural part of the business life cycle doesn't make it easier, but it makes it less shocking. Um, I've seen restructures happen from my very first job all the way through. So I think just having that in the back of your mind, that, that potentially at some point in your career it will happen to you. Um, kind of taking that as it comes, I think it just almost softens it slightly. Um, and having that perspective, I think specifically kind of leading a team through that kind of change was very challenging. So had a team of junior marketers, they'd never kind of experienced change like this on this scale before. Um, so I think as a leader, having that kind of steady calmness, um, I think you don't have all the answers and you can't have all the answers. But just being that steady presence for the team is really important. Um, our brand director at the time always talked about kind of energy and you can't control how other people react to the situation. But you can control how you're reacting and protect that energy and protect the energy of your team. Um, so that was very much how we approached it and tried to just focus on the things we could control. We still had to come in, do the job and get through our day to day. So it's kind of focusing on that and then just being that support, uh, network when things did get tough, um, and being able to take a break if we needed to or go and take some space out, um, when you're hearing heavy news is quite tiring. And when that goes on then for. We actually went through three restructures over the two and a half years that I was there. Lots of leadership change, lots of new people coming in and out. Um, so it does get tiring, I think. So being able to sustain that kind of emotional maturity and yeah, just, I think it's difficult, but I think, yeah.

Host: Uh, did you, did you lean on people during that time and what was your coping mechanisms? Because gosh, three restructures in two and a half years is just, that's, it's constant change. I mean you're never in a, you're never in a steady state at all. So that, that becomes a real challenge. But you talked about coping mechanisms and I wonder to what extent did mentors play a role or did the outside world are focusing on other things and other parts of life. How did you sort of navigate that in your mind?

Jessica Houston: Yeah, I think, I think it's quite easy to get absorbed into uh, the kind of chaos in the day to day and that probably definitely happened. Um, so I think it's about when you can just taking a step back and just trying to put it into perspective, um, and making sure that you do kind of look after yourself. So for me that's very much about sport and making sure that was making space for time away from the office and like you said, making space for my own learning and development as well. So actually something that I did with my team through that period was really worked with them on things like making sure they had a bit of a PDP in place, um, which was not about the body shop, but just about what they want from their career, helping them work through different exercises, building their LinkedIn profiles, all of those kind of things. So kind of maybe can say this now, but I was almost preparing them for, um, potentially needing to go and find a new job.

Host: Just. Were you at that point fearful for your career? Because I think that many people who sit in that, in that moment in time and you can't see what's next. You don't know what's across the parapet. And certainly you've landed in a plum role today. But at that moment in time, was there sort of anxiety around sort of the what's next part of that? How did that sort of that real human sort of, you know, dealing with ambiguity?

Jessica Houston: Yeah, I think I definitely had some anxiety around what was next. And I think it was, it came at a very, um, almost like annoying point because we'd built the team into something so great and I loved working at the brand and I loved the team that I worked with. So it felt like such a shame to then have everything kind of crashing down around you, um, and trying to work out if. And again, our brand director at the time kind of said this to us that she just said, you know, this is happening. You're choosing to be here, you don't have to choose to be here. Um, so it was kind of making that decision of do you stay and wait it out and see what happens and be part of an amazing story of hopefully turning the business around? Um, or is your choice to leave and go and find kind of the next big thing? I think I really so badly wanted to stay and make it work, but it got to a point where I actually did hand in my notice, um, without anything lined up. I was in a fortunate position to be able to make that decision, but then that gave me the space to then really focus on what was next and then landed in this amazing role at Easterjet.

Co-host: It's a great example of where some people do want to stay to the bitter end because they think they're more employable optically, once they're currently employed. But as other people just need to get the headspace to think through what exactly they want to do. So all credit to you. Um, so you talked a bit about the support you got during that time, but I know you're also very passionate about mentoring yourself. So the question is, what have you got out of mentoring others?

Jessica Houston: I love that question. I think, um, yeah, because quite often as a mentor you're kind of giving your wisdom, your advice, you're sharing your experiences to help them think through challenges that they're going through. But I think it's always really nice to hear from others as well and learn from what they're going through. I think it's almost a two way street. I'm currently, um, part of a mentoring scheme, um, and I've had some amazing conversations with my mentee about their business and the challenges that they're going through. And I think yeah, you can learn a lot from having different perspectives as well. So I think it's, it's a two way conversation and being able to learn off of each other.

Host: You know what I really love when I see all your socials and I hear about the things that you do inside work and out. It feels like you're constantly um, putting yourself out there, taking yourself sort of almost into that stretch zone. Um, I think the other day I saw you in a presentation storytelling session that you were doing. Um, so tell us a little bit about sort of some of the things that you do which keep you in the stretch zone. I remember you mentioned that early on in your life you felt that you were quite a shy person and you're working on kind of sort of being a bit more perhaps extroverted and the like. But like I said, I'm just intrigued by, by some of the things that you do and why do you do them.

Jessica Houston: So I think if I start with some of the, what I'm doing, um, so I, I'm involved. Well, I guess school of marketing was a huge piece of um, when I first grateful for. I um, think for me mentoring or giving back to the community is so important. So I think I have been lucky enough to experience mentorship and like PwC were excellent at uh, investing in your personal development and learning and training. I think as soon as I moved away from PwC, I realized that that isn't the norm in a lot of companies. Um, so kind of at uh, the Body Shop there was no structured learning and development programs. And then as I started to become a manager and manage more young, I realized that they didn't have the same kind of awareness of the resources that are available in the industry. So I kind of make, make it my mission on a daily basis to be able to share that with as many people and marketers as I talk to. So yeah, from big things like being involved in the school of marketing. At EasyJet, I lead marketing capability. Um, we have some really strong relationships with the marketing society and isbar, so being able to provide those opportunities to the team. Um, but then so on a personal note, because I'm so passionate about it and learning is one of my superpowers, translating what I've learned into frameworks and sessions. So I've created like a PDP workshop that I've delivered across EasyJet, not just within marketing. Um, so yeah, I think for me it's just about sharing as much knowledge and learning that I've got and my experiences with other people.

Host: So on that basis we can't do a POD without talking about the world of AI. And so how does the intersection of your capability and thought process around learning intersect with AI? What are you doing in that area?

Jessica Houston: So AI is a relatively new topic for us within marketing. Um, at EasyJet, it is something that's within my remit. So um, I've got myself and a colleague working on an AI work stream. So to date we've been just exploring and understanding kind of what's out there, but we're now trying to formalize that into a bit more of a strategy. So really understanding kind of where in our system and process AI can have a real um, impact and make a difference. I think one of the things that we have launched internally which has been super interesting has been a kind of copyright AI copywriting tool. So we have one copywriter in the whole of EasyJet who kind of owns our tone of voice and she's amazing but she's only one person and she supports the whole business. So we had to find a way to um, almost kind of take all of that, that learning and knowledge, put it into an AI system. And that's now a tool that our uh, content specialists can use to create our content. So that's one real live example of what we're doing.

Host: But it's a lot more and localization, language, different stuff. And is that sort of, is that part of it or.

Jessica Houston: Not yet, not yet on the roadmap. So again I think these kind of AI solutions uh, need to be iterative. So we kind of start small, test and learn and then really systemize it across, across the business.

Co-host: It's a really nice example you give. Very contained use case. Um, who knows, who the hell knows what's actually going to happen. But from what you've learned so far, what do you think's possible?

Jessica Houston: It's a very big question. I think AI will fundamentally reshape um, the industry. I uh, do think that's, I think some people can find that scary. I think it's a real opportunity for us to almost, almost kind of automate a lot of the admin and the kind of more kind of day to day process driven tasks that we probably spend more time than we would like on. Um, and I think that will then alleviate people to really think about strategy and spend more time on creativity. Um, I'm not 100% sure what that looks like yet. I've seen lots of different examples of different tools and tech and I think, think it is still quite a fragmented market out there. There's lots of different ideas being bounced around. I think where it'd be great to get to is almost like one solution that can be plugged into your whole system and then automate depending on kind of what your um, makeup is and the operating model. Support different aspects of that operating model but be controlled in one place so it's not siloed and they're all talking to each other.

Host: Super. On a sort of related note, often when we m. Have people on, not many people have a uh, big slant towards the world of operations. Now clearly your role encompasses both the strategy and ops part, but it could well be perceived that ops is the slightly less glamorous part of the marketing ecosystem, as it were. But what excites you about the world of operations in marketing?

Jessica Houston: I know I always say internally that I think process is sexy, that's a reframe. But I do think, I think traditionally operations might have been seen as a bit of back office support, um, kind of timelines, governance, budgets, those things are very important and still are part of the operational kind of roadmap. But I think there's been in the last couple of years a bit more of a strategic imperative around operations. So um, obviously the pace of change is, is very fast. We've got more markets, more tools and technology. You've got AI, like we said, moving into the industry and so being able to look at the operational structure holistically is really important. I think there's a report that talks about people, process partners and um, platforms as being central to operations. And I think operations is becoming a lot more of a, uh, are kind of the topic that senior leaders are talking about and need to be aware of and be thinking about. So for me I think operations has been on a bit of a journey. I think we're kind of at this point now where it's becoming a real strategic imperative to be able to deliver everything else. So it's almost like with strategy and operations they are two in one. You can't have one without the other.

Host: It's, it's intriguing because when I think about the world of an airline, operations, marketing to some degree is a very small component part of a much wider ecosystem that you guys operate. So are you sort of the conduit between sort of marketing ops and the other ops that basically take place across the different airline ecosystem?

Jessica Houston: Yeah, so I guess we've got like you say the airline operations, which is a whole different beast, um, which I don't get involved in, but I Do see the role, my role in operations as being able to kind of break down the silos and bring all of those teams together. So within marketing, we have to work really closely with our, uh, network strategy team, our commercial teams, finance. Um, so one of the things that I kind of took up on myself to do when I joined was go out and again build those relationships, um, and bring those teams closer together so that we're operating as one team than in silos.

Co-host: I think you're onto something there because in the last few months the conversation around AI has changed from everyone knows it can do amazing things, but how do you actually land at embeddit? And workflows is such a buzzword right now. So I guess many marketers will be thinking, oh, I need to get a bit more into operations. How can they build and flex their muscles to be conversant with the operational side of things?

Jessica Houston: I think for me it's quite, you can start in quite a simple way. Um, which is probably how I started, really. It's just about taking a bit of time to think about and question why you're doing things the way that you're doing them rather than just going through the motions of doing them. Um, I think when I moved into the body shop, one of the things I did was a 90 day diagnostic, but just really unpacked and understood how things were operating currently and then just tried to think, is this the most optimal way to be able to do that? I think people could start really small on, um, this specific project that they're working on and just asking those questions and taking a step back and understanding how it works. And then I think as you go through your career, you get exposure to different areas of the business, different projects, and then that starts to kind of help you build that wider piece around. Okay, how do we bring all of these different either workflows or teams together to make it work holistically? Um, and I've just developed that skill, um, over time.

Co-host: I think I'm gonna ask something totally different now. I know you've trained for Marathon also. You do a bit of hyrox. So my question is like, what's enough in life? Because there's always a bigger goal. Nelson Mandela, there's always a bigger mountain, et cetera. Um, so how do you, I suppose, how do you think a bit about success and. Yeah, what's enough?

Jessica Houston: I think you're right in that there's always something more to go after. And I'm definitely have been the type of person who's always looking for the next thing and chasing the next thing. It's a conversation that me and my partner David have quite often. It's like actually, how do we live in the moment more and appreciate what we've achieved and got? Because we are doing well. Um, so I think for me, I am the type of person who's always looking for continuous improvement. And it is not just at work, it is in my personal life. So whether it's sport and trying to get a marathon in a faster time or hyrocks in a faster time, go back and do it again. Um, but I think there does need to become a bit of balance around living in the moment too.

Host: So true.

Co-host: Perpetual struggle for one and all.

Jessica Houston: Exactly.

Host: So true. I don't know where you get all the time, quite frankly, Jasmine, when you talk about all these things.

Jessica Houston: No, uh, it can be exhausting sometimes.

Co-host: So let's just, uh, how do you bend time? Because many people do find their ways. How. Yeah, how do you bend time?

Jessica Houston: I think for me it comes back down to being like an uber organized person.

Host: So I can vouch that you are, that's for sure.

Jessica Houston: I think it might sound a bit rigid, but I kind of plan out every hour of my day, um, with a bit of flexibility in there. But I have, I like routine so I have um, you know, try and get in my exercise in the morning. We've got a new puppy so trying to walk him and find time for that. But actually that's quite a nice, nice slow start to the morning that's being able to walk the dog. M. And then yeah, I think at ah, work it's about being really um, clear with what your priorities are and where you're spending your time so that you're working on the things that add most value or starting with those things to get through your to do list. Um, but yeah, it's about, for me it's about maximizing your time outside of work as well. So. So I think you could spend your. And I have done this myself, spend your evenings watching tv, the latest Netflix, um, show. And I do like to do that to kind of decompress and relax. But actually I use my evenings um, to do all of the extracurricular things that I'm interested in. But for me it doesn't feel like extra work because it's stuff that I love doing. Um, so yeah, I think there's a balance between cramming lots into your time but also making space to relax and rest.

Host: It's interesting because when you were walking in from the green Room here. You said, oh, I'm usually at the other side of the camera. And so you've done a lot of sort of being at shoots and things like that. Um, but as you said in your day to day role today, you don't get the opportunity necessarily to go and have that creative outlet. Um, but what you have said is, and I know that you're like sort of an avid writer and really enjoy the process of writing and I wonder if that is that your sort of creative outlet that you have as well or where do you see sort of that going?

Jessica Houston: Yes. So I growing up loved reading and I still do a lot of reading but writing was another one of my passions. Um, and I think to be honest, I haven't written that much personally for fun over the last kind of 12 months. Months. But I did have a blog. I know I did some writing for School of Marketing. So yeah, I would say writing is one of my outlets for creativity. Very. I don't know if I should really announce this on a podcast, but I'm also learning to dj, so that's a new hobby that I've taken up this year.

Host: Very cool.

Jessica Houston: Um, so again like, I guess it comes back down to my like dancing and being creative in that way, music, um, just having creative outlets to do that.

Co-host: You're quite self aware, I would say, generally what comes through. Um, but what have you still got to learn on earth as you look ahead?

Jessica Houston: I think there's always things to learn. I think we never stop learning. Um, and I think as you grow as a leader, the more responsibility you're given and then that is still a learning curve. Um, so you obviously can take all of the learnings on your past experiences and think about problems and how you would solve them based on what you already know. But there's always going to be a completely new situation that you've never been in before that you, yeah, can lean on other people, mentors, um, connections within the industry to get their view on how to approach that certain problem. Um, for me personally I think it is just trying to get under the skin of so many different areas of marketing. So I've been in marketing my whole career but actually how does that work with customer experience and other teams and how do we bring that together? So um, for me I find it quite exciting though, always learning and I think you're never always going to be perfect and get everything right. But that's the beauty in learning because you learn from your mistakes and then you can take that forward.

Host: You know, it's Interesting because, like you say, it's unusual. Well, not necessarily unusual, but certainly it's, um. A lot of people don't study marketing at the outset and then sort of have a career onwards. Now that you've been in that case where you've done that, do you feel there's a moment in time where you feel that you're going to stay in marketing in your career? Or indeed do you feel maybe there's other avenues of business that you want to explore? How do you see that dynamic?

Jessica Houston: I think I love marketing. I think all of my friends would be like, I'm Jess, who does marketing. All I talk about is marketing. So I do think that's probably one of my, my big loves in, in my career. I, I would also be open, though, to thinking about that more broadly. And I think, particularly as I've gone through my career and kind of noticed where, um, I've added value in terms of transformation operations, change management. That's something that I'm really keen to kind of dive into more, um, and maybe I guess starting, I guess with marketing and how do you transform marketing? But that could grow in the future to wider projects, different business challenges and, you know, you can use all of those skills that you've learned to apply to even bigger problems.

Co-host: All options open.

Jessica Houston: Exactly.

Co-host: As ever, the time's gone very, very fast. So, um, just to pitch up the last question then, it's. You've had lots of successes, been ups and downs along the way. If you reflected to the Jess who just left university starting out, what would be your adv to that person back then?

Jessica Houston: I think work hard, really important, but make sure you have fun whilst you're doing it, um, and enjoy the process and the journey, but also to be conscious of your health and wellbeing. Um, so I probably went a bit too hard, um, in my first couple of years of work, experienced burnout, ended up with a collapsed lung. So I think that really helped. What kind of stopped me in my tracks, um, to kind of rethink how I was kind of using my time and where I was spending my energy and making sure that I now put my health first as well. So do all of those things, work hard, have fun, but not at the detriment to your health.

Co-host: That's, that's a lovely way to end because it's a really clarifying point. You can now, I can now see an epiphany moment which has shaped quite a lot of things, which must have been a big moment, but it's brought you to where you are now, and for that, we're very grateful. So thank you for a lovely conversation.

Jessica Houston: Thank you for having me.

Host: Thank you, Jesse.