Mission-Driven Finance Leadership with Dai Shi, SVP & CFO at Mission Square Retirement

Matt Sledge: Foreign. Hey, thanks for joining us. Uh, this is Matt Sledge with the Next cfo and I am here with dy. Uh, and we are going to jump into this new episode of the Next CFO to get started. Ah, D. Uh, do you want to introduce yourself really quickly and who you're with and then we'll jump right into the icebreaker.

Dai Shi: Absolutely. So I am currently the chief financial officer of Mission Square Retirement. We're based in D.C. a nationwide investment advisory and record keeping company. Um, as of this week, we have total assets under management administration of $82 billion. We serve 1.2 million customer and uh, close to 1.9 million participant account. We take pride of the fact we only serve the public sector. Ensure they have a graceful retirement. And I love my job. Prior to that, I spent good 24 years working the financial service industry for the Fortune 100 companies, uh, in both private and public sector.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. Awesome. Well, we'll jump into that a little bit more in here in just a second. But let's, uh, let's start off with some rapid fire questions just to get to know you a little bit better, Doc. All right, so this will be a quick question, uh, response. So the first question I have, what's your favorite hobby?

Dai Shi: Well, I have quite a few, but first thing top of mind is traveling. Um, I started traveling internationally in my 20s and it has become a passion and never stopped. The more I go, the more I realize I haven't seen. Um, so as of today, I've been to 80 countries and at the end of the year I will be hitting 82 countries. I feel traveling is the best way of learning and understanding and be truly, uh, inclusive, um, various cultural and various mindset.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. That's beautiful. Uh, to follow that up in the past maybe two or three years, what was your favorite place you visited?

Dai Shi: Okay, so I have a favorite for each continent. Uh, maybe start with Africa.

Matt Sledge: Sure.

Dai Shi: I love Morocco.

Matt Sledge: Okay.

Dai Shi: For Asia, there's this unknown. I shouldn't say unknown, less known country. Sri Lanka is my favorite. Beautiful, unspoiled, um, nature. And in Europe, I've been to France over 20 times. Different occasions, a different part of the country. I can't get enough of that country.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, I, uh, love France. France is wonderful. Um, and I can't help but ask, uh, this question. I saw you multiple days. We met at a, uh, leadership conference in Dallas and you came every day. Just very sharp from a fashion and put together standpoint. And I really think it portrays, uh, how you carry Yourself and our producer Josiah knows the same thing. I have to ask, do you have a favorite designer style? Any anything you want to give me there?

Dai Shi: Uh, that's an even tougher question than favorite countries because, uh, when it comes to fashion, I think the keen eye for style is more important than the actual brand. Sometimes I'm wearing a non designer sneakers, but coupled with something truly, uh, statement making, for example, this pair of glasses, I find it's all about the style that truly can represent who you are and really convey that authentic self. And that one makes it special. It's not really about the brand. I've seen people load themselves with all kinds of brand and don't appreciate that that much.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. So it's about aesthetic, not necessarily a specific line of brand. I appreciate it. Well, you do it very well. Thank you.

Dai Shi: And taste.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, just a couple more and we'll jump into the interview. Do you have a favorite musician?

Dai Shi: I do. So I just finished my town hall for the finance department. The entry music is Earth, Wind and Fire. My team knows that every time they play September, I get my blood flushing and get, uh, lots of energy from that. I think their style is so versatile. From jazz, blue, funk, rock, just truly a masterpiece and sustain the test of time.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, I love that. That is my fa. I really love that song too. That's great. That's great. Um, and then final question. Is there anything in particular you're reading right now?

Dai Shi: Yes, I am, um, reading King of Capital. It talks about the rise and falls and resurgence of blackrock and some other public equity firm. Um, it is an intriguing read. I think sometimes when we look back at the history, we learn something new for today.

Matt Sledge: Absolutely, absolutely. That's great. And that's a great lead in to the actual interview. So let's, uh, let's jump into the actual interview. I appreciate you playing along as we can get to know you a little bit better before we hop in. Uh, your personality just continues to impress. I really love that we got you on here and you agreeing to it. Um, so without further ado, your career really is impressive based off of what you already told us and what I know about you, um, holding key roles from CFO to chief of finance, um, and major institutions like axa, Prudential and Citi. Uh, what initially sparked your interest in finance and how's that passion evolved over the years.

Dai Shi: Thanks, uh, for that question. I actually started as a classic literature major. Wasn't uh, thinking about finance. My aspiration at the time was, uh, to Become a Liberian or historian. And of, of course I had a pivotal moment, um, my third year of college. I spent a summer with my uncle and auntie who at the time was leading a major um, infrastructure project. They worked for the local bank and they were financing the uh, infrastructure project. And I learned firsthand that how can financial service industry play a pivotal role in socioeconomic development? And after that summer I told them I um, wanted to switch to finance and consciously made that switch. So by the time I graduated undergrad, I um, planned to come to United States for my master degree, which I did and which really paved the way for my career in the financial service industry.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. That's a great story. Uh, beyond that pivotal moment, did you have any particular mentors, uh, along the way, especially maybe beginning in your career that helped mold or guide you, uh, in your success?

Dai Shi: Yes, I would say, um, I have some really interesting mentor as well as sponsors. Um, over the years I think there's a big difference between mentor versus sponsor mentor. They're more hands on. Um, those are the mentorship that sometimes assigned by the company because they see you as a rising star. They want to invest in you and pair you with a mentor within the organization. And I benefit from that. And AXA as a global firm is very good with developing future leaders. And till this day I feel I'm forever indebted to AXA and their continuous leadership development. And the sponsorship is more coming from a slightly different angle. I have in my career again, I'm very thankful for a few executives who put in their own political capital and really voucher for me. They see something in me that I didn't see myself at the time and they say give her a chance. And till this day I'm very, very grateful for a few sponsors, um, within my career, throughout my career. And I try to pay it forward as I'm leading the finance organization. We're launching a couple programs. One is the CFO Shadow Day. I believe much of the leadership development is by learning and observing. So I offer myself to my team. They can shadow me for a day and see how I um, handle key stakeholders, my peers, the board, as long as the information is not confidential. The other program that we're launching is called the Tandem Mentorship program. We match, uh, as aspirational, um, future leaders with the designated M mentor, um, that is within the company and usually it's a one year program. They graduate from the program and learn all things about leading the team and continue to grow as the leader and that's my way of giving back because I learn and benefit firsthand of program. And those individuals who truly invested in

Matt Sledge: me, well, it's a great way to give back. And I think it's truly, uh, admirable that you all take such a selfless, uh, interest in developing the youth and maybe some of the junior members of your team. Um, that was one of the things I saw on your career history that I was curious about. I think I saw that you were a shadow CFO at one point. Was that similar to what you're describing or was that something different?

Dai Shi: Uh, shadow cfo that was for axa, uh, Asia Pacific, Asia Pacific region. So the reason why it's called shadow cfo, because I'm in charge of the Southeast Asian region. And each country, such as Singapore, Malaysia, Philippine, Malaysia and Thailand, they already have their country cfo. However, um, based in the regional office in Hong Kong, the shadow CFO has very frequent dialogue with the country CFOs and help to promote best practice amongst the country. Because as the shadow CFO of the region, I get to see the best practice of each country and I hope to promote that for the other respective countries. At shadow cfo, there's an overarching strategy that we try to drive, but leverage the expertise of the local country CFOs.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. That's really awesome. That kind of ties into your overarching theme, uh, of travel is one of the best ways to learn. So I'm sure going between all those different regions and local municipalities, you learned a lot, uh, and best practices that you may not have seen otherwise. Uh, so that's really interesting. And I have to ask, it sounds like you've traveled around both geographically and between different companies. Um, were there any, you know, was business, business and money money, or were. Did you find there were differences that you brought into your current career that maybe some of your other cfo, uh, counterparts in America weren't aware of or educated to because they didn't have the same journey as you. I know that there's local accounting rules everywhere you go that are specific, but was there any overarching, uh, ideal or methodology that you picked up somewhere else that you. Has really served you well?

Dai Shi: Yeah, I would say, you know, for CFO track, you could go with two, two trajectory. One, you grow up from the traditional accountant role and you build upon that. That's one track and no issue with that. And there's the second track, which I think I've seen that in the industry, the trend is, as a CFO you not only need to be that strong technician, you also need to be that strategic thinker and has a well rounded experience and a holistic view of the business, um, of the business operation. So the, the well rounded experience in various part of the organization truly helped. As a uh, contemporary cfo, if I could use that term, one needs to have experience in treasury management, capital market, M and A ipo, um, pricing, financial operations, um, financial planning, analysis, taxation, internal audit. These days one needs to be very fluent in the language of AI and all things technology that can help with the scaling of the business. These are the modern cfo, um, traits if you will. So that's the, I would say that's a second track in which I think it's pretty much dominating the modern cfo, uh, profile.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. And we'll touch on some of those items you just discussed in just a second. Especially AI. I'm curious your thoughts there. Um, but I am curious, with your strong background in M and A, what do you think is key for a CFO when navigating an acquisition or partnership?

Dai Shi: Sure. So M and A is a very complex process right there. I mean one point I was teaching M&A, there are 10 steps, maybe I'll just highlight a few of them. For example, you have to develop a strategy, identify the target companies performing due diligence conduct, financial modeling and evaluation. And there's that negotiation and there's that post integration. So CFO play a critical role in this entire process. Um, but I will highlight three points which I found it very, very important. One is that strategic alignment. Right. The CFO should ensure the acquisition of partnership aligns with company's overall strategic goals. And this M means understand how the deal fits into the long term vision and whether it adds value to the business. Sometimes could be value destroying if we're not smart. Second one is that significance of effective communication.

Matt Sledge: Um,

Dai Shi: as a cfo, it's vital to communicate clearly with stakeholders, including the board, uh, the C suites, the entire organization and external partners about the rationale behind the acquisition and how it's benefiting everyone and how it's added value and benefits for the company. And last but not least, I think the cultural fit, it's often overlooked. Um, there are times we have to call it a quit. We're getting very close to find a negotiation stage with the target company. But we have to call it quit because there's a misfit in the culture and that is so critical that ensures the post integration will be likely smooth. And if there's a chemistry between the two organizations. So overall I think navigating acquisition requires strong analytical skills, strategic thinking and a strong communication to ensure a successful outcome.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess building off of that, you know, you've talked about kind of the development into CFO and how you get there and the two different tracks. And um, I'm curious, especially when you're looking at things like M&As and broader larger topics and issues, how did your view and when did maybe that bell or that click go off? Uh, for you to understand, okay, I've been operating one way but to transition up to cfo I really need to broaden my view, my understanding become more holistic. Uh, when was. When did that light bulb really go off for you or did it kind of gradually build over time and experiences?

Dai Shi: I would say um, I came to that realization pretty early in my career. Um, I started with um, a reinsurance company in New York. One year on the job I received a promotion. My manager at the time, his name is Tom, I still remember him. He highlight that the fact um, the critical thinking, analytical skill was the reason, strong reason behind uh, my promotion and also the fact that helped the company identify the top 20 profitable clients and the bottom 20. It really shows one thing much broadly beyond my role at the time just as a junior analyst. That's also when I realized actually you know what, I might have a chance of making it in this highly competitive industry. Um, because I never pigeonhole myself into what my roles is defining because I'm always thinking a little bit broader of what else there, what else can we do. So I like to think I came to that realization as you know, early stage of my career and um, I'm grateful for that.

Matt Sledge: Nice. And I guess a follow uh up question that it's great that your company and other companies give so much mentorship and shadow opportunities and things like that. But maybe do you have any advice before that became available to you that you maybe could give to our listeners and aspiring leaders and CFOs on hey, if that's not available to you, look to maybe pursue that this way. Is there anything that worked for you before those opportunities became available?

Dai Shi: Yeah, I would say uh, for any aspirational leaders, I think we're usually self starters. There are resources available around. I was just sharing that with my team. LinkedIn Learning is a great resource to broaden one's technical expertise as well as soft skills. The other platform I truly enjoy is the Coursera. Coursera house many well known universities, great subject matter, expert teaching the courses take advantage of that because one needs to prepare yourself for the CFO tracker. One need broad range of experience and knowledge and expertise. And so I would say start early, prepare yourself for that. And it's important to build that network. Right. Go to conferences, events and really build that network. And the one thing I see often see during the network events is they ask, what can you do for them. I would say start with what can I do for you? Start with that. Offer yourself as a resource and support for the others and vice versa. The, uh, reciprocal will come naturally. So shifting that mindset. Yeah, it is very important. Communication skills is essential, including written, verbal. And it's not only about talking, it's also about listening.

Matt Sledge: Yeah.

Dai Shi: Much of the learning and developing is about listening and observing.

Matt Sledge: Yeah. That's awesome. And that's how we met. We met at a leadership conference.

Dai Shi: Yeah.

Matt Sledge: And I gotta admit that I did ask what you could do for me and asking you on this podcast. But I, um, do appreciate that. But I think that's great advice as well, is go in and see how you can help someone and establish that relationship. That's really great advice.

Dai Shi: You actually touched on something, another point I wanted to make and I thank you for that. I think by going to conferences, you stay in the know about industry trends and innovation. And Matt, you're being humble. Right. By talking to you and get to and discuss with what your company is offering and learn what's really going on in the market. So this knowledge can shape strategic thinking and drive the, um, organization forward and drive your own professional development forward.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, 100%. 100%. You get opportunities you would never expect. So, yeah, get out there is what we're trying to say. Uh, and network. It's not all about just learning as much as you need to know it. Every accounting role and every tax law, you got to network and have good people skills and writing skills. And it takes a rounded view. And I think that's been as I've interviewed all the guests I've had on the night cfo. That's been a really reoccurring theme that all the CFO have pressed is you've got to get out there, develop a holistic view, develop a better view of the entire business and your people skills. So it's great to hear you reinforce that. Um, so, yeah, let's, uh, I want to jump into, uh, you know, a little bit of your view on financial services. You've mentioned that financial services are the first responders to people's financial health. How does this Philosophy shape your goals and leadership style.

Dai Shi: Yeah, so, uh, I'm all for clients. My philosophy as a leader is really to prioritize clients in every decision that we make. So when it comes to capital allocation and investment, I often ask the team, my peers. Right. How can we leverage this investment to deepen our relationship with our clients? How can we make their experience different or memorable? And I also believe in building a sustainable business is really crucial because by investing wisely and safeguard our financial resources, we can ensure we can support our clients for many years to come. And that's pretty much my, um, philosophy.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. Yeah, that seems to be the, uh, philosophy or somewhere thereabouts of all the successful financial services companies. So it's great to hear that. I actually worked in financial services, uh, for a time, uh, with a company that's no longer around, called Stern Agey. They got acquired by Stifel, who I'm sure you've probably heard of a time or two. So, um, that's awesome. So I'm curious, how do you feel about, uh, ESG and sustainability development? Um, how do you see this developing and evolving in the financial sector? Or do you see it as a focus at all?

Dai Shi: Yeah, so first of all, it's hot topic for a while and I thought the Europeans are slightly ahead of the game and is playing catch up very quickly. Um, financial sector played a pivotal role in influencing the environmental and social governance impact. I've seen banks and investment firms, they're increasingly assessing the impact in their portfolio and seek to invest in sustainable projects. They even look within, um, their internal resources. This not only helped to mitigate the risks associated with climate change, but also position themselves favorably, uh, with clients that prioritize ESG and also seen, uh, increasing stringent, um, on their report of the ESG effort and performance and pushing firm to adapt more rigorous reporting standards. Um, so I think with the advanced work in European, they also help a financial system and sustainability benchmark for the US firm. I am looking forward to see more progress in this market.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. I think you're spot on with that. I've worked in German companies and international companies and there's definitely a little bit more advancement and even more regulation there when it comes to reporting and staying on top of esg, um, but it's definitely present, uh, in the US as well. And it's very interesting that people are molding their investment, uh, share and distribution, uh, based off of that. So that's great to hear as well. Uh, we love the environment here. On the next cfo. Um, so. So you briefly touched on it a little bit before with AI. But are there any big tech innovations you're particularly excited about right now? Uh, and if so how do you see them shaping mission? Uh, square in the finance department or even outside of the finance department.

Dai Shi: Yeah, I'm going to talk generally about uh, the financial services. Definitely excited about the AI and the different generation of AI.

Matt Sledge: Right.

Dai Shi: We talk about AI AGI. Ah and very um, excited about this capability in improving productivity through enhanced data analytics. Uh, streamline the certain processes and increase efficiency. We even hearing auditing firms start to leverage AI tool to become more efficient um, in their dealing with their clients. For finance function I have seen AI automate the repetitive tasks such as data entry, reducing errors, freeing up time for more strategic activities. I also AI being used to analyze compensation data which often is onerous task and AI can certainly streamline that significantly for the organization. Yeah, um, company can. Well finance department can also use AI algorithm with budgeting and financial planning. Again usually it's an onerous process, could last a year long and it's not limbo. And we're all about agile budgeting. I see AI can support companies financial department in that front ah, as well as the cash flow forecasting as well. Perhaps AI can do a better job than human.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. I think you need to keep human in the loop. Um, and there's companies like Planful, uh, that are integrating this into things like budgeting and planning more and more. Um, so it's going to be very interesting to see and I think it's very uh, ripe to be leveraged uh in a lot of different areas. Do you have any advice to maybe the other CFOs or uh, other leaders out there on maybe what your approach is to it? Is it maybe look at taking on small chunks or evaluate uh, larger areas. How do you feel about maybe the best way to approach it and how you're thinking of approaching it.

Dai Shi: So in general um, I'm all about ah, test to see if it works and then implement. So I would advise CFOs take small chunk, see it works, um, and then replicate from there. It could launch a pilot in a particular department using a specific tool, test, improve and then it could expand from there. Yeah but I would say if you want to do it, do it quick because the landscape continue to change. Right. The tool you're thinking yesterday may not be the tool that you're going to implement tomorrow. So say act ah fast, be decisive.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you feel probably the Same way I do that you're not going to be able to get away with just sticking your head in the sand and hoping the AI trend, uh, is gone. When you look up, it's definitely integrating itself and becoming a part of everyday business. Would you agree?

Dai Shi: Absolutely. Yeah. Like it or not, it will become part of the daily operation. Yes.

Matt Sledge: Like it? Yeah, absolutely. So get on top of it. Better. Better now than now. That's um, awesome. Well, it. I also see on your profile and some of the other things you post that you're open to board work and I think you've worked on some boards. Can you talk a little bit about how you got involved with that and maybe the value you see in it? Um, and maybe some advice to other leaders out there on how to look to get involved in that?

Dai Shi: Yeah, so, so first of all, um, I get tap on the shoulders, um, on the board work. I think as cfo, the, the skills in this particular area is highly valued by both public company and the private sector. So. But I've been very selective in terms of the board that I serve because I want to make sure, um, by serving the board, I'm also serving the community that I'm in. It's important. Secondly, it's about giving back many years of working experience in the financial service industry. If I could help other company to avoid certain pitfall, um, or mistakes, um, I'm here to serve. So that's a great way of giving back. Um, now in terms of how to. If you aspire to be on the board, I would say there are many ways to prepare yourself for that. Uh, one is observing your interaction with your own board. That's where you learn, right? Because you're on the other side of the table and take home courses. There are many board governance courses out there. NACD has fabulous course and other companies such as Elis Group, they also have board boot camp. These are few days very effective um, classes. It really equip yourself with the knowledge in terms of the board governance and everything a board member need to know, whether it's governance, whether it's a technical expertise, uh, whether it's industry trend. Make sure you um, prepare yourself for that and also think about your strength. Right. If you're, if you, if your strength is within technology, perhaps you want to be consciously seeking the board seat that is looking for technology expertise or compliance or M and a right IPO to work with your strength but broaden your skill sets and prepare yourself for that network is another great way of getting yourself out there known again. Start with what can you do for the others? Not what can you do for me. I always found that, um, I always found that, ah, philosophy works a lot better and more organically.

Matt Sledge: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's great advice for sure. And that's a, uh, valuable experience you've uh, achieved. So kudos to you. Honestly. I keep on listening to your story and uh, I wonder how you get it all done in a day. So I'm very impressed. Uh, you accomplished a lot of great things. Um, so we know you're a very busy person. We uh, really appreciate your time. But uh, before we go, is there any advice to maybe the CFOs? I have two final questions, uh, to CFOs that are aspiring to maybe, uh, move even further up into the CEO role. Have you seen other CFOs do that? Is there any advice or viewpoint, uh, that you would give them that you think they need to focus on?

Dai Shi: Yeah. So I have seen increasing trend for CFO to grow into the CEO role. Uh, of course there's other track, but this is one of the trend that I've seen in the industry. I would say, uh, that strategic mindset is so important because as CEO, one need to set the vision for the business and that deep knowledge of the industry is also important. So I would say prepare yourself for that. And lastly, I believe having the experience in the field driving the sales is one of the pivotal role to be the effective CEO. So find opportunity for yourself to be in that position, even not for a decade, but for a season. Just to understand what does that mean in the field driving sales. That's the fundamental of the business and other things about constant improvement is there are executive program out there, right? Walton, Columbia, nyu, you name it. Diabetes school offer very effective accepted continuous learning program. Um, and their program tailored for CEO or aspirational CEOs. I would say take one of those programs, invest in yourself, um, and prepare yourself for that next role as CEO.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. That's great advice. Uh, and on the flip side of that, is there any advice you would give aspiring CFOs? Uh, you know, we've talked about being well rounded, being more strategic. Is there anything in particular that maybe we haven't talked about or that you just want to reinforce to our listeners out there that want to achieve or maybe get to where you are and maybe in particular that are interested in the financial services industry?

Dai Shi: Yeah, uh, thanks for that question. We briefly touched on how to become a effective cfo. Right. Let me just quickly recap and Adding a couple more points that we haven't had a chance to cover. I would say aspirational CFO should focus on gaining the broad range of experience experiences across different functions. Right. Within finance there's that fpa, treasury, um, pricing and really understand the strategic operational side of the business is critical. Now uh, today CFO also need to possess strategic foresight which we touch on that and agility as the role is constantly evolving and the role is evolving beyond the traditional financial oversight. So as the CFO you also need to be the chief future officer. You really need to be commanding that forward thinking mindset and optimism. Um, we talk about developing strong leadership and communication skills. That is essential as CFO must often convey complex financial concept and decision to non financial stakeholders including your own board. And lastly it is important to stay informed about industry trends and innovation as this knowledge helps shape the strategic decision and driving the organization forward. Now two more points I haven't mentioned is one is it take some bold risk? Um, I find the experience working overseas is tremendous valuable because it allow you to see both the emerging market and the developed market. You compare and contrast and you could learn from both market and make you a stronger leader and offer that worldly view. So while you're young and had the opportunity take an international assignment, see the world and see how things are done differently. Uh, I would say that um, and um, the second one is I guess be friends with folks who's already a CFO's. So really watch and learn which we touch on that in some of their different topics. But I think watch and learn is another way to prepare yourself for that next role.

Matt Sledge: Absolutely, absolutely. All right, well before we go, I do have to. Curiosity is killing me. I don't need to know the specific places but you said you're going to see two more countries this year. Do you mind letting me know what the countries are?

Dai Shi: Absolutely. There are two little islands in the Caribbean. There are Saint Bards and St. Kitts. I very much look forward to enjoying the French cuisine in Saint Barts which is known for and kick back and relax and recharge.

Matt Sledge: That's awesome. I'm sure you will have no problem with that there. So I hope you have a blast uh, and enjoy that. That area. The Caribbean is very beautiful and uh, Saint Barts is beautiful as well. So I hope you enjoy that and I just want to take the moment to really thank you for joining us today. Uh, you know I met you at a leadership conference just to reinforce to our listeners out there. Like I said, get out there, uh, network, meet people, be outgoing, even if it's not in your nature. You'll be amazed who you meet and who you connect with. And I appreciate you taking, uh, the time and giving me the opportunity to interview you, uh, and join us today. So, again, thanks for joining us. And until next time, this is the next cfo, and this is our episode with Di.

Dai Shi: Thank you, Matthew. It's my pleasure. Great to meet you. And I enjoy the interview as well. Good luck, everyone out there.

Matt Sledge: Yeah. Thank you, Doc.