Mindset and Mentoring Tips with Stuart Pasternak, Principal at The CFO Centre Canada

Stuart Pasternak: Foreign.

Host: Welcome back to this episode of the next CFO with Stuart, uh, Pasternak, my guest. Stuart, thanks for joining us today.

Stuart Pasternak: You're welcome. Pleasure to be here.

Host: Awesome, awesome. We'll hop right into the business side of it, but I've got to ask you just uh, in the Rapid Fire question segment, revealed to me that you uh, are kind of dual citizenship between Toronto and Florida. Uh, that's quite the uh, difference. Can you uh, explain to us that background and maybe just start off with a little background about yourself, uh, where you came from and how you ended up uh, in this area of business?

Stuart Pasternak: Well, I'm actually, I was born and raised in Toronto, but my family's always had a place in uh, Florida, uh, particularly growing up in South Beach. Um, so you know, we still have a place not in south beach anymore, it's a little further north, but that's a second destination. Uh, and my wife's family, surprising enough, grew up in Toronto but had a place in Florida as well. So it's just part of being, you know, who we are. Um, so I go back and forth, uh, you know, and spend time both places. Uh, a little bit about me while I'm a, uh, CPA. Uh, I've been in the business field for about 30 years. Uh, I've held probably the last 20 senior executive positions both as a general manager, CFO roles. Um, currently do a lot of fractional concierge type CFO work and I also do business coaching. Uh, and as you know Matt, I am also a regional chair of the Toronto Leadership uh, Council and in the past I was the sat, uh, on the board of directors for the Alzheimer's Society of York region, uh, for about seven years and held various positions within the executive group there.

Host: That's awesome. Yeah, and that's how we met in the leadership, uh, Council. That's right, in Dallas. And I would highly recommend it and uh, wherever you are regionally to find it. So uh, I found it very valuable. Would you like to uh, say anything directly about the Leadership Council before we jump any further?

Stuart Pasternak: Sure, uh, I'd love to. Uh, so it's about 3,000 members across North America. Toronto's the only international chapter. Um, but what's nice about it, it's really a community based run, uh, for CFOs or senior financial people where the opportunity to collaborate, discuss and just empower and improve your career, not just yourself, but also the organizations you work for. Um, the conferences we do are really tailored towards leading edge, uh, issues in leadership that ah, a CFO is going to encounter in their career and try and ensure that they have the tools in their toolbox to be successful. I encourage anybody who's listening to this. If you're a senior financial executive, reach out to me or even Matthew, he'll get you in touch with me. Uh, but it's really a, uh, community of CFOs that get together, discuss these issues and there's nothing like it that I've been able to find. I brought it to Toronto because I couldn't find anything where it allowed me to do that sort of thing. There are some other organizations out there, but nothing where allows me to go on my phone, send an email out to 3,000 other members and get responses. And it's just phenomenal the power that's in there and then to meet service providers like yourself, um, who may be able to help a solution that I need. I mean there's just nothing like it. So I encourage anybody in that field to uh, search it out. And uh, like I said, if you want information on it, feel free to reach out to me. If you've got Matthew's contact, uh, details, Matthew will forward you along to me as well.

Host: Yeah, I think we're both pretty easy to find on LinkedIn and we'd love to hear from you. And I didn't uh, mean to plan to do it in the meeting, but we've got a lot of guests from, for the next cfo, uh, from the council as well. It was a great event, great networking. So I think it's a great value and I think, think it's uh, to turn this back to, you know, our listeners. A, uh, lot of up and cominging leaders may not be aware that these sort of things exist to get dialed in and networked in. So I think it's a great point to bring up that as you're growing in your career and you're trying to reach that next level and that executive level networking events like this really can help you meet people you need to know and that can help you develop.

Stuart Pasternak: So yeah, it's that mentoring that is critical. You don't always want to be mentored by someone you work with, um, because there's certain things you will never disclose to, you know, the current CFO or the CEO, uh, or the cio, whoever it might be in the organization. You're just never going to discuss it. But the ability to find someone that could be a mentor for you or someone you can talk to, uh, again, it's priceless and that's what the community gives you an opportunity to do.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Stuart, you've had a rich career as a cfo and now an executive coach and TEC chair. Could you share, you know, how you first ventured into finance and what's kept you passionate about it over the years?

Stuart Pasternak: Well, one of the things that I, you know, I started off working for my father in construction when I was in my early teens and decided there that, nope, that ain't for me. I'm not doing that type of work for the rest of my life.

Host: That's hilarious. I have a similar story,

Stuart Pasternak: but he started getting me involved in the office a little bit and started just being. Enjoying that a lot more. And then in school I started taking accounting courses and, and I just found them fascinating. Economics, uh, business things. I just found that the whole concept of that just fascinating. And you know, went through. Got my cpa, um, went into industry right away, and I just found that the whole concept of business was just fascinating to me. I just, you know, I think just strive at it. Um, you know, always motivated to pick up the next book on a topic or something that could help me in my career. Um, you know, and I just found that just interest. You know, I just, it motivated me, just the whole concept of it. So that's really how I got into this whole thing. And, you know, after spending about 30 years or so working with, you know, various organizations, both public and private, you know, owner managed, non, uh, for profit, different, uh, industries, construction, manufacturing, real estate, uh, consumer products. Um, you know, it's just I picked up so much knowledge from working with some really, really great people. And then, you know, at this point in my career, I said, you know what? I want to do something different. And I started doing right, doing the fractional CFO work, getting to the coaching, um, you know, the, the tech chair, it's in the executive committee, um, start, you know, just started doing that because it's the same thing. It's really to meet fascinating people that are in industry and business, to be able to share and collaborate with them is just, you know, it's a motivator to me. Call me crazy if you want. Right. I know my, my kids do that, you know, because they can't understand a balance sheet. Um, but hey, you know, if you find that niche or something you really love and go for it. Make it all.

Host: Yeah. And I'll, I'll say a couple of things. That one, I, uh, actually started, uh, young. I think I was about 13, uh, working with handyman and at construction sites, cleaning up, uh, in the middle of summer in Alabama and quickly realized, this is not for me. I, uh, actually was working with a cement mixer that was short on me, so when I stuck my shovel in it, it would shock me. Uh, it didn't last long. So I think we had a similar, uh, experience there. Smart minds think alike. Um, I want to talk some about the individual businesses and areas you work for, but I think you touch on a valid point, even though we didn't hit it straight on. But I think what you said kind of lends itself to this, that accounting and finance, no matter all these industries and businesses you've been across, is really the language of business. I mean, money is. But, you know, accounting and finance stays true. There are intricate intricacies, there are nuances between business. But knowing what a balance sheet is, understanding that really can lend itself to you Wandering through all these different industries. Did you find that true?

Stuart Pasternak: Yeah, I do. Um, you know, there's some fundamentals in accounting that go regardless of the business you're in, uh, the real issue is how do you, you know, how do you generate revenue and how do you generate profits, um, and ultimately turn that into cash? That's the unique part of any business. Um, but being in the various industries, I am, you know, the fundamentals are just always the same. And, you know, if you can understand how the business transaction works, um, and how that part of the business operates, um, you can do very well in just about any industry. Yeah. Um, and just enjoy the, you know, learning something new every time.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: There's not two companies that are the same, no matter what they say. They may be same industry. There are different things that go on behind the scenes.

Host: Absolutely. Culture, leadership, those can all impact and direct it.

Stuart Pasternak: Exactly. Yeah.

Host: Um, and with that, what common threads or core principles have really guided you beyond just the debits and credits, and understanding those mechanisms, uh, regardless of industry, that you feel like it made you successful or that are really good for our audience out there to keep in mind as they maybe move between industries, companies, even if it's in the same

Stuart Pasternak: industry, Stick to your core values. If you got the right core values, then I think, you know, you can apply that right across the board. You know, so one of them I talked about is customer service being an accounting and finance function. Your service base. What you're trying to do is provide a service to people within the organization. But two, trust and respect the people you work with, um, progress through your staff and the various people around you, um, and a commitment to, uh, continuous improvement and encourage Your staff to have those values and to do that and support them in that process. It does two things. One, you get a group of people that are constantly trying to do better and taking accountability and responsibility for what they do, knowing very well that they are going to make mistakes. Yeah, you know, that's going to happen. But knowing how to manage those mistakes and give those individuals the ability to. To discuss that with you and learn from it. If you can teach people to be thinkers and problem solvers, uh, it makes yourself and your career so much better, and it allows you to do so much more. And then you build that trust and respect with them. Uh, they're not scared. If they've made an error or mistake, they'll come and talk to you about it. And how do you work through that together. So those are some of the key ones. But the other one that's important is constantly looking to learn, you know, and, and that is, you know, constantly reading. So when I coach a young, you know, account or controller that wants to be a cfo, you know, I'm giving him a list of books that says, you got to go read these now. You can find other ones. You have to read exactly these ones. But the whole concept is, what is leadership about? Uh, what are processes about? Those are what's critical. And it's, you don't have to take away everything from the book, but take away a few tidbits of the book and make that part of your DNA and live by that. Do it and follow it. And I think that's, you know, if you really want to get successful in it, you're going to pick a lot of these things up. You know, how to conduct a meeting. What's, you know, what's leadership versus just being a boss. Right. Um, because there can be two things. And, you know, how to be a manager. Right. We tend to promote, um, people into the manager role because their technical skills may be very good, but they have no idea how to manage people. Because that's not something that is taught in accounting. Yeah, yeah, right. So how do you do it? So read, you know, if you want to get. You got to read about how to manage people, how to manage projects, how to, you know, how to be a leader. And so those are, I think, some of the key elements. So I'm constantly reading and, uh, reading different books on different things. I do go to the, you know, like we talked about the CFO Leadership Council and the conferences. I go to those conferences for two reasons. One, I'm a regional director, so it's important. I think that I'm there. But secondly, to meet people, people like yourself in various industries. Because I still work as a fractional cfo and in order to be successful with my clientele and even coaching various people, I got to understand what's going on in the industry and make the recommendations to help them improve their business.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: And so you're constantly trying to do that. You have to be on top of the world. And today with what's going on the tech side of things, more important now than ever.

Host: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And, uh, I think you touched on a couple of really key points that I've seen kind, uh, of flow through a lot of these interviews I've had. But one is, you know, you've got to have the accounting squared away. You can't make mistakes in regulatory areas of compliance and things like that. But you've got to be, uh, a leader that allows their team to make mistakes and the communication around that to be handled properly. Um, and encourage the innovation that comes with that, you know, and kind of the learning. And I think that's a big thing. The second thing is, I think everyone has said, and you touched on it a little, you know, you can learn all those really hard skills, uh, and technical skills in accounting and finance and get moved into management. What I've seen time and time again with people like that, that don't cultivate the soft skills as well, which I think every guest I've had on here has said how important it is to cultivate those soft people skills, leadership skills, is you hit a glass ceiling because people trust you so much to handle the technical side. But when they put you in a management role and you've got the technical side down, but you're not excelling at the management or leadership side, you're not able to jump to that next cfo, director, VP level. So I think that is a very key, uh, piece of advice, especially to really technical accountant types, uh, that think if I just learn all the regulatory rules, all the accounting rules, uh, I'll succeed. But inevitably it's more than just that. So I think that's really great advice.

Stuart Pasternak: Right. Yeah. And that's where you want to go. I was going to say that if that's where you want to go to the CFO level, you know, as soon as you pass your exams, that's when you got to start. Then start focusing on the leadership skills, start building them, start reading about it, start building your frameworks, understand it, ask questions about it. Um, because it does take time. But as you're getting that experience and you're not going home and studying every night, uh, for your exams. Right. And going through that process, then, you know, spend the time on your own doing it and be dedicated to it because it'll be very beneficial. Because not only do we have the technical skills that you're, you know, the people that are interesting to see, they're going to see that you've got the ability to lead other people.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: And that will take you a long way. Absolutely.

Host: I have to ask as well, while we're here. You've touched on it a couple of times, and I don't want you to give away all your business secrets or your whole product, but can you tease the audience that maybe might, you know, kind of tease them into maybe even reaching out for some coaching? But can you give us one book you feel like, you know, people should read, especially in this role or pursuing this, uh, level of.

Stuart Pasternak: Yeah, there's. There's so many good leadership books out there. I can't think of too many. One, but one I just finished reading is, uh. What's your why? Okay. Um, I like the, the authors. Slips my mind. I just finished reading it. That was probably. I just got back from Dallas a little while ago. I finished reading on a plane event from Dallas. But it's, you know, you know, I'll think of the name eventually probably after this.

Host: I'm sure people can Google that the title is good enough.

Stuart Pasternak: But it really explains, like, you know, what companies do and why some companies are more successful than others.

Host: Mhm.

Stuart Pasternak: And understanding, like, why they got into something in the first place. Yeah. So when you look at, you know, why do you want to be a cfo? Why, you know, like, why did I go into coaching? What's my why? Why did I do this? Uh, and why am I doing this? And it really makes you stick to. And it goes back to almost. You say your core values is understanding why you did it in the first place and then stick to that as opposed to going on tangents, which some companies do, and forget why they've got into the business in the first place. And you see, you know, some of them just aren't as successful as they used to be.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Time and time again, um, you know, I know we've talked a lot about, you know, accounting, finance, leadership, uh, moving on to the CFO role. But, you know, you've had a chance to work with some exceptional CEOs, uh, and so maybe the CFOs that are on this call that may be Thinking, hey, you know, eventually I may want to try and be a CEO. Um, are there any key attributes that you believe distinguish a great CEO that you've worked with that they may need to keep in mind or think about cultivating as they pursue that next step for them?

Stuart Pasternak: One I think is important is being a visionary. If you're on LinkedIn, you take a look. I just wrote a paper on LinkedIn, um, published it a little while ago, that 13 things that I thought a good CEO should have. And one of my colleagues gave me the fourth one that I should have put in there, but I didn't. The 14th one. But, uh, I recommend you. But, you know, um, you know, part of it is the visionary and the ability to communicate that with people. Uh, hold people in the organization accountable and hold yourself accountable. Yeah, right. Some CEOs are, you know, um, will never take the blame for anything. Even if, you know, they made the decision, um, or they were the founder, they're going to blame someone else. It's like, have full accountability for what goes on. But the vision and the ability to communicate and articulate that to the staff and what we're trying to do, uh, is critical. And those are the ones that are really successful also the ones that, in a time of crisis, can settle the people down and really communicate the path forward, see the path forward and be able to manage that crisis. Um, those are some of the characters of some really good leadership, um, that are there. And, you know, they also have to understand the numbers.

Host: Sure, yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Pasternak: Even though they're not an account, they're going to understand what the balance sheet looks like. They're, you know, understand the income statement, how that comes through, how the budget works. Um, but I highly recommend going to my LinkedIn. I just wrote an article on it, uh, not too long ago, uh, about, you know, uh, the traits that I find that are most important for a CEO. Awesome. Uh, you don't have to have all of them, but you should definitely have some of them in your, you know, and if you don't start working on them.

Host: Yeah. And you should probably be aware of them even if you don't have them, you know, so it's never. Yeah, well, exactly.

Stuart Pasternak: So I think I just gave you about five or six of them.

Host: No, that's great.

Stuart Pasternak: Uh, there's 13. There's a 14th, one by one, a CEO that I've worked with in the past that said I should add to my list.

Host: That's awesome.

Stuart Pasternak: Yeah.

Host: Yeah, that's great advice. And, yeah, I think we may Throw out a couple of links, uh, in the side notes of this meeting. But if not, I'm sure people can find you on LinkedIn or Google the book. Uh, but we appreciate it, all the, uh, all the nuggets.

Stuart Pasternak: I'll send you that LinkedIn. Sorry, the book. I'll send you. I can send you a couple of books as well. That might be good for some people if they want to look for their careers. Yeah.

Host: Awesome.

Stuart Pasternak: Hopefully we can throw with the authors.

Host: Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And the Rush autobiography one as well. Uh, we absolutely need that as well.

Stuart Pasternak: Yeah, that's a good one, too.

Host: Um, awesome.

Stuart Pasternak: Definitely worth reading about. Uh, the best one is, if you want to do it, is read Geddy Lee's book.

Host: Okay.

Stuart Pasternak: You know, I gotta plug Getty's book only because he grew up in the same neighborhood I did. Now he's a number of years older than me.

Host: That's all right.

Stuart Pasternak: But he. But it's funny, when I read the book and I'm going, yeah, okay, I know what he's talking about because I've been there.

Host: I don't care if we get sued for copyright and fraction.

Stuart Pasternak: I don't think Eddie's gonna mind.

Host: I'm just gonna have Josiah, our video guy, edited Rush at the beginning and the end of this. Uh, before you go in. Uh, I'm sure he won't mind me

Stuart Pasternak: plugging his book for another 2020 and. Plugging his book.

Host: Yeah. That's great. Um, you know, before we jump to the next section, this is kind of all over the place, but I am curious. It's. I've thought of how to fit this in a couple of different times, but, you know, rational cfo. Before I kind of got into the software arena and then, you know, got involved with things like the leadership council. I wasn't really aware of it, but I've seen it more and more. I've. You know, you're involved in it. Can you talk a little bit about that? How you got involved in it, how it operates and, you know, the value you see in it.

Stuart Pasternak: The. Oh, the fractional cfo.

Host: Yeah, the fractional CFO work. Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: Well, you know. All right, so, you know, we're having worked for a number of companies as their cfo. You know, you learn a lot of good stuff. Right. You know, we'll just put it in that bucket over there. But what you find is a lot of the smaller businesses, probably in the neighborhood, about 25 million, up to about 100 million. Uh, sweet spot's about 50 for most of them. But, you know, they got great entrepreneurs that have great ideas, but they don't know much about the back office. The administrative side of things isn't really well looked after. They, um, measure their success and how much cash they have in their pocket. Sure. What a lot of times they don't realize is possibly how much money they're leaving on the table. And a perfect example is, you know, they need bank financing. They go to the local bank and they get a commercial level bank line. Well, you know, there's a lot of work you can do with banks and different financial institutions to get better rates, better, uh, opportunities. For example, same with insurance. I go to the local insurance guy that really doesn't understand your industry where, you know, getting a CFO even on a fractional basis to get experience in some of these things, um, you know, even reporting and how to dig into the, you know, if you're manufacturing, how to dig into the costs and help you identify cost issues or even purchasing issues in the procurement side of things. That's where a fractional CFO can come in and help you do those things and clean up that back office, get some of that information you need to make those critical decisions, and then help you formulate the strategy to grow your business. Right. And if it's something you're planning on doing is, you know, I mean, I'm making 20 million bucks a year and in revenues, you know, decent profits, maybe 10% to the bottom line, hey, that's a great business. But I want to sell my business in a couple years. Well, you know, where fractional CFO can come in also is help you get the value that you think your business is worth. And we have a number of years to help set that up, clean up some of this stuff that, you know, potential buyer might be willing to come in and to help you, um, even market that, uh, and by going out to, you know, um, venture capital and, you know, some of these other things, going out there and starting to get that process rolling for you. Well, you can focus in on the important things of the business in your mind and what you're really good at. And that is the operational side or, you know, the marketing side or that, and really focus on that to grow the business, uh, and have the back office support you in that, that journey. So that's really where I think it really comes in. You end up getting that for, you know, a couple days a week, if that's what it is, you know, or a couple days a month, uh, and getting that industry knowledge At a fraction of the price. Because you're not at a stage yet we're hiring a full time CFO is going to be challenged. You're paying a lot of money for someone to be there. And I'm going to guess that within a year they're probably going to be gone because CFOs typically don't stick around for more than I think three to four years anyways, based on surveys I've read. Um, and if they're not challenged and motivated, they're gonna be less than that. So there's a good chance that after a year, if they're just not really doing the strategy and helping you grow that business a lot, uh, they're probably gonna leave.

Host: Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. That's a great education on kind of how that works. And I know that when working with these business is probably as a fractional cfo, but otherwise it seems like you're big on process improvement and cost control. Um, what's your approach? You believe in implementing sustainable change in these areas, especially with complex environments, whether it's regulatory or technology or otherwise.

Stuart Pasternak: Right now I think the big one to focus in is the use of technology. Mhm. Um, you know, repetitive transactions like purchasing, payroll, um, those are areas that are just repetitive time and time again. And instead of having a whole army of, you know, small little army of managing all that, um, there's some real value and cost savings to be put into that, uh, process. And you know, when you look at purchasing, you know, how do I find the best value, quality and service per product that either I'm reselling or using in my manufacturing process, um, and ensuring that it's on time, you know, correct, ready to go. And there's a lot of processes around that to ensuring that, you know, with cybersecurity today, um, you know, the possibility of a hack or you know, an invasion if you will, or is so big, um, that you really have to have good controls on a lot of these things. I mean, check fraud is still a huge problem. Yeah, you know, EFT or ach, whatever the case. I mean they're even getting to a point where they, you know, they can spoof your email and you know, change your bank account details. I mean, this is an area that can be very costly to a business. Uh, so what are the right processes? What are the best practices that should be in play in your treasury side of things to ensure that, um, it's being managed right to protect you? Uh, for some of these things, absolutely.

Host: So to that point, especially the security side of Things. What advice would you give finance leaders on trying to balance that technology and being smart about how they implement it and how they go about it? Um, but also not getting left behind, particularly with really, AI on the forefront of everyone's thoughts now in automation. Um, and I'd also just be curious, what are you, again, don't give away, uh, the whole secret recipe, but what is your approach with the people you're coaching and working with when it comes to AI? Uh, what's the temperature they have and kind of, what are you telling them their temperature should be?

Stuart Pasternak: Well, I'm telling they really need to look at planning. Where does the business want to go in the next couple years, and how does finance support that vision? Uh, and then we have to step back and look at do we have the technology to do it and what technology should we have in play? So do we have the right ERP system? Do we have a procure to pay system that we should be looking at? Do we have a production management system? Do we have an inventory management system? Um, and look at those fundamentals and say, yeah, you can do it in, you know, everybody's favorite accounting system called Excel or Google for, uh, those ones. Um, but that's not the way to manage your business. And so you have to really map out the vision of where you want the business to go. So I always, you know, when I talk to potential, uh, CFOs and that I said, you need to sit down with the owner and find out what his vision is, what is he trying to do, what does he want? What is this company going to be like in five years? What's his goal? And then we need to find a way to put those processes in play, because what we don't want to be doing is adding bodies. Yeah, we also want to have the ability to expand. So, you know, you look at that and you say, okay, that's the first thing. Now we've got this strategy, this map of where we're going to go. And now we start looking at what processes need to improve. So, you know, on the payroll side, if you're going from 50 employees to 100 employees, um, you probably, you know, do you want to be adding another payroll person, or can we automate that payroll so we have still the same number of, uh, people. My payroll, which may be one, maybe one and a half, depending on what you need. And also you want to make sure you're backfilling that, but you're not adding extra bodies to manage that extra process, because it's a Lot of manual intervention. So, you know, even going things like swipe cards or, you know, scanning, things like that, where it gets charged directly to a job, it makes life a lot easier and it just flows through the system. So you've got one person no longer doing data processing. And this also fits in the same thing with procurement, you know, more data processing. But the AI is doing it for you. And you're just looking at the exceptions. And you're now managing those exceptions allows you to grow without having a whole bunch of back office staff. So what that gives manager to do is as they grow their business, they'll really be able to take some of the additional margin that they're getting and push it down to the bottom line. Yeah. And also it's looking at, you know, in understanding what you're buying, where you're buying it from, are you buying it because you got, you know, the best price, or you're buying it because you've always bought it there? So how do you use your procurement system to look at the analyzing of, uh, you know, supplier fill rates, back orders, you know, pricing changes, et cetera, et cetera. Errors in the, in the PO system where, you know, you've got the PO says this, but you get a different price coming off the invoice because no one's updated. The PO allows you a lot to get a lot of efficiencies in there. And am I doing the best, you know, do I have the best opportunity? And it also allows me to see, okay, what do I need coming down the pipe? So where should I be negotiating with, uh, vendors, possibly in the purchasing, and then on the sales side, understanding, you know, using a CRM, where I'm selling to, who I'm selling to, what their orders are, you know, what's my fulfillment rate? Um, you know, invoicing, processing, you know, errors on the invoice. Um, is that why I'm being delayed? What's my collection process? I mean, these are all areas that need to look at for efficiencies.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: And depending on the industry you're in, automation can help with a lot of this. Um, but it's also managing that process because the end of the day, you want to put cash to the bottom line. Um, but you need to keep. Yeah, right. I was gonna say accounting's great. So you gotta make some decisions in accounting, but at the end of the day is cash is king. Yeah. And you gotta make sure you're managing that cash.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: You know, so where, where others to look at your burn rate and how to manage that and control it? Uh, yeah, we really start to see the value come in. And so if the kind of. If the owner is saying, yeah, I'm gonna set this company up because I want to pass it down to my kids in a couple of years. You know, do you want to get a point where that's in a really good spot to give to your, you know, the next generation, where they're not having to deal with a lot of these headaches or if they're going to sell it? How do I get you the biggest value for your buck?

Host: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Pasternak: A lot of opportunity, I think, in the accounting space today with some of the AI that's being used, some of the software that's coming out. Um, there's even more software coming out. And I believe that I don't know how many people on this podcasts are going to remember, uh, AOL and the days of, uh, the Internet when you actually dial up and you hear that, that phone dialing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's where I think we are in this world of AI and computer automation. And you look at where we are now 20 years later, and it's like, you can't survive without this little thing here in front of me is a computer, right?

Host: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Pasternak: Whereas when I started my accounting career, I'm walking around with a big computer. Right.

Host: Yep.

Stuart Pasternak: Um, and that's some of the difference, I think, where we are in AI right now and with some of this technology that we're just starting to see being used. Um, so, you know, our kids generation. Right. Will have a lot more use of that and a lot different, um, than what I did growing up where I actually had to do math by paper and pen. Kids are just doing it on computers now, but their processing power is a lot higher than mine was.

Host: Yeah. And faster. And I think you touched on two really good points to me in particular. Um, one, you got to keep human in the loop. Um, and you've got to augment these processes as well. I read things from time to time that say the pool of talent for accounting and finance positions is only contracting. And maybe there's literature out there that disputes that, but I've seen where the, uh, you know, it. The competition for talent is only going to get tougher because there's not enough talent for the jobs that are needed. Um, so a lot of these technologies are going to be needed to augment where that lack of volume of talent is. So I think that's very key. Uh, I think we really tell people at Planful and, uh, we try and keep this podcast pretty agnostic, but, uh, you know, if you do have those needs, we are here. Planful is a great, uh, software to help you solve a lot of those planning, uh, decisions augmented by AI. But, um, you know, beyond that, uh, a lot of the young talent is going to expect these tools to be at their disposal and they're going to judge how successful they think your business is going to be based off of that. And that really became apparent to me. I've said this multiple times in multiple episodes, but we had interns this past summer and they all saw, uh, AI, uh, and AI functions and features as just new tools to use. And they expect them to be there to leverage and be as powerful and efficient in their jobs as they can. And so I think that's one thing I've noticed in kind of the more senior generations that are in accounting and finance right now versus the junior ones is the senior ones are going to have to bridge that gap because they're a little bit more cautious of where this technology is going, uh, implementing it. Some people just want to stick their head in the sand. I think it is very smart to be cautious, have a very purposeful approach. But you need to at least start and tell me if you agree or disagree. Stuart. But you need to start at least, you know, taking on little pieces and seeing where you can implement it and feel comfortable with it, where you can keep your arms around it, but you're starting to get a grasp on it so you can leverage it more and more.

Stuart Pasternak: No, you have to. I would start on, you know, most companies aren't really like, unless maybe you're one of the, you know, large corporation, you really don't have the infrastructure to implement a lot of this. You probably don't have a lot of it there. Uh, so you got to start. So he says we're gonna get the biggest bang for your buck, uh, and plan it out. Um, I think that you're going to see, you know, as the younger generation comes up, coming out of school, using some of these tools a lot more than we are, um, there's going to be light years ahead of. A lot of people are. But I think what's happening is it's a shifting from, you know, data processing where, you know, people just process the data and they just. But it's going to be more problem solving, analytical type of skill set is going to be needed. Um, because I don't think we're at a point yet. I don't know if we ever will be where you can leave everything up to AI to give you the answer to.

Host: Sure.

Stuart Pasternak: Uh, somewhere along the line, someone's gonna have to sit there and go, well, give it the right. Make sure it's got the right information.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: And two, that the output makes sense.

Host: Yep.

Stuart Pasternak: And, you know, human in the loop, I think you have. I don't see that'll ever come out, but. No. Um, but I think what you're going to see is companies change and shift towards their accounting staff, or even anybody for that matter. Um, being more analytical, problem solving, uh, and let the computer system do the redundant, normal stuff that can be done, uh, where you would have data input and, uh, in the back end, like historically. So I think you're going to see a big shift in that it'll be tough for senior executives that don't embrace the fact that change is happening. Um, and it'll be tough for them, uh, if they're not out there trying to learn about that technology and how to use it in their business. And not everything's for everybody. Right.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: Um, so different software will be better for other companies. How it's set up for different companies, different industries, um, but having to go out there and do it and make sure they understand what they're looking for. Because I look this way, any idiot can install software.

Host: Software is good enough.

Stuart Pasternak: Right. But the real intelligent ones will understand their needs, uh, versus wants.

Host: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Pasternak: And be able to articulate that to the software companies out there to make sure that, one, they're buying the right software and two, that it's implemented, uh, properly. And that's the real key. So it's the same thing like buying a business. Any idiot will buy business.

Host: Yeah.

Stuart Pasternak: The question is, can you integrate that into your existing business and make profits out of it? That's the key.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think I'm going to take that, uh, back to, uh, the head of our marketing department, Rowan, and present him with my new marketing. Stuart and I came up with a new marketing thing. Planful, so good an idiot could do it. You know, let's, uh, see.

Stuart Pasternak: How can I trademark that?

Host: Yeah, that's great. We'll see if that gets cut or not. I love it, though. This has been a great talk, Stuart. Great conversation. Um, but before we go, I just want to ask you shared a lot, a lot of great knowledge. I think hopefully we can figure out in the, uh, notes or commentary section to link some of the things, whether it's your CEO, uh, article on LinkedIn or the book you recommended earlier. Um, but if you can't, please go Find Stuart on LinkedIn. Great resource. I'm very happy.

Stuart Pasternak: I will. Matt, I will send you an email with, uh, those links and that information so you can do as you please. I will share for some of them. We will share.

Host: Yes. Reach out with me, uh, or Stuart. Uh, and I would, I would definitely say go give Stuart a follow on LinkedIn. Always posting great, valuable information. I, uh, love seeing it. And, uh, I hope I run into you soon at another leadership event.

Stuart Pasternak: See you in. Well, I'm going to be there in Boston in May. That's the next one.

Host: I will try to make that one.

Stuart Pasternak: Maybe we'll try and do it. Maybe we'll try and do a live podcast. Uh, you and me from the.

Host: Oh, that would be great.

Stuart Pasternak: Try that. I'm going to challenge you.

Host: Let me see if I can make that happen. No, that's, uh, I will, I will work that. Um, before we go, final question, any last words, advice, parting gifts you want to give, uh, either up and coming CFOs or current CFOs, uh, just that you wish you would have had or that you think of now that, uh, you wish you could.

Stuart Pasternak: Uh, uh, one of the biggest ones I wish I would have had when I was younger was a mentor. Um, because I think I would have gone a lot further in my career. When I was younger. I really started to, uh, move quicker in my career and things happening a lot more as I got older and, you know, more experience. So mentor would be this way. I recommend anybody that wants to go to the CFO level, executive, get a mentor that you can trust and you can talk to and make that a regular thing. Business coaches are great, um, but you really have to find the one that's really right for you. Um, that sort of does it. And then secondly, always be out there trying to learn, always trying to get better at what you do. Um, and be honest with yourself and about your weaknesses. They're okay to have. Don't be scared of them. But it's a question is how do you turn a weakness into a strength without killing your strengths? And that is constantly what they're learning. And be prepared to challenge them. And like I said, don't be scared of them just because you've got to manage them and you'll be fine. And you can be extremely successful, uh, in anything you do.

Host: It's.

Stuart Pasternak: Yeah. I'm gonna tell you my biggest one is I'm an introvert.

Host: I would have never guessed that. No, no.

Stuart Pasternak: Because when I real because. Because when I realized that I was, and I was shy about doing stuff like this when I was younger, uh, I realized that that's where the world's going. I gotta figure out how to get over it. I've been doing that and you know, I have no problem now standing up and speaking in front of people or doing that. But I did when I was younger. That's awesome. So, yeah, perfect, uh, example. Just keep working.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Stuart, we appreciate you being on this week, uh, for another episode of the next cfo. Uh, this was a great one. And uh, we'll have more in the future. But thanks, uh, for joining us and uh, we'll talk to you soon.

Stuart Pasternak: All right, take care everyone. Have a good week.

Host: Thanks.

Stuart Pasternak: Mhm. Sam.