Guiding the Next Generation of Leaders with Diana Saadeh-Jajeh, Fractional CFO and Former CFO of GameStop, Inc.

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hey, thanks for joining us today. My name is Matt Sledge, the host of the next cfo. Uh, and today I am, um, here with Diana. Diana, great to have you join us today.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Matt. It's, uh, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Speaker B: Awesome. Awesome. Well, we'll get into the, uh, financial specific conversation background. It's an honor to have you today. But before we do, we like to do, uh, a little rapid fire just to get the creative juices flowing, uh, relax a little because this isn't a, uh, we like to try and make this not an overly stuffy financial, uh, podcast. So I'll throw some unofficial time on the clock and we'll get started. Are you ready?

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: All right. Who, uh, is your favorite musician?

Speaker A: Bruce Springsteen.

Speaker B: Bruce Springsteen. Awesome. Uh, what is your favorite hobby?

Speaker A: I like baking quite a bit.

Speaker B: Oh, baking.

Speaker A: A lot of baking. Yeah.

Speaker B: Nice. Is there a particular baked good you love to bake? More than anything else.

Speaker A: It changes by the season. Right now I'm into the pumpkin, you know, trend, so I'm doing pumpkin tiramisu. I'm doing pumpkin bread pudding, pumpkin everything. So anything that has pumpkin right now, um, and then I'm sure it'll change. Uh, in a couple of months, I'll change to something else. But right now I'm into all the pumpkin everything. Pumpkin.

Speaker B: Nice. I love. I, uh, love tiramisu, so that sounds amazing. Uh, what is your favorite way to unwind after work?

Speaker A: Um, you know, I like to, um, go for walks. You know, just, uh, just to unwind, listen to some music. Um, just get some exercise and fresh air. Um, so that really kind of helps me grounded. And then I come back and I'm ready for whatever it is that I have to do at that. Ah, at that juncture. But, um, that's really a good way for me to really unwind. Um, sometimes I do that in the middle of the day when I really need a break. Um, from just in. I just go around the house maybe sometimes just put five minutes in. That gets me some fresh air and some sun, and I'm back, you know, I'm back ready to. To tackle whatever's next. So that's always nice.

Speaker B: Always, always good to ground and reset. Can't, uh, can't beat that. Uh, do you. Is there a place you like to travel or somewhere you've traveled that you like the most?

Speaker A: Um, you know, this is not very, um, you know, very, um, different, but I really like Mexico. I mean, I've been to a lot of places in Europe and parts of Asia and South America. But I really like Mexico because it really forces me to relax. Um, there's not really much for me to do other than to decide which pool I need to go to eat at. And that is so relaxing for me that I don't have to do any other thinking. And, um, so that's my favorite, uh, site. Uh, and actually I live really close to Mexico. Now that I'm in Dallas, it's only two hours away, so I try to go there as much as possible because it's really close. Uh, really close. You know, from an air. From a flight perspective, it's only a couple hours. Um, it's almost like faster there than driving to Austin.

Speaker B: So, yeah, absolutely. I love Mexico. Is there a particular city or place that you love?

Speaker A: We usually go to the Moon palace in Cancun, and we've been frequent visitors, um, there. And it's been just very consistent as far as service, the food quality, and actually we've met a lot of good people there that we've stayed in touch with and happened to be there at the same time we're there. And so that's really worked out really well for us. Um, so, yeah, Moon Palace. I've been to other locations as well, but we tend to go back to the Moon palace, uh, over and over again. And we like the one that's adults only, so older. Um, you know, we did a lot of vacations with our kids when they were younger, but now I'm. My tolerance for little, uh, kids has become really, really short. So I want to be in a place where I see more adults. And I think that's part of the vacation is really to be able to interact with like, uh, in people of your, you know, your age and whatnot. So, um, that really works out really well for us.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's great. Uh, and second to last question. Uh, do you have a book you're reading right now or a favorite book if you're not in the middle of one right now?

Speaker A: You know, I do have a favorite book and I've already read it twice and I'm rereading it for the third time, and it's Atomic Habits.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, every time I read it, I hone in into one or two things that I like that I adopt in my day to day and so forth. So I find that every time I'm reading it, I, I discover something else or I discover something new. There's a lot of rich information there and a lot of you Know, actions that you can take as a. As a professional.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I feel like rereading it sometimes just gets me really, you know, a great understanding. The first time I read it, it was like, wow, this is great. This is great. But then I wasn't able to really apply anything because there was so much. And then the second time, I honed in on a few things, and now I'm reading it the third time, and I'm honing on even more stuff, so. So, um, that seems to be, uh, a big asset for me as far as keeping that book and rereading it a couple of times.

Speaker B: Awesome. Yeah. We've got, uh, the next CFO book list probably that we're going to release as well. Uh, so glad to add another one to that. I appreciate that.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker B: Um, yeah. All right, and, uh, final question. I know you have two kids. Which one is your favorite? I'm just joking. You don't have to answer that, actually,

Speaker A: in case you listen to this. I mean. No, I. I need to. I need to stop.

Speaker B: Yeah, don't answer that. I always do that. I just like to see the pause on people's face. But I don't ever want anyone to actually answer that. So, uh. So, yeah, I have said I should just say m family member, because then spouses can say they're, you know.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's easy. Knows. No doubt.

Speaker B: Y.

Speaker A: He definitely has my back and supportive. Uh, the kids. It depends on the day of the. Or the month. Right. Um, yeah, they're great kids. I. I love them dirty. But, you know, sometimes I like one born to the other. For sure.

Speaker B: And it can change depending on the month.

Speaker A: Probably changes by the day. Right.

Speaker B: You could be like Deion Sanders and have a ranking board of your children to let them know, and then they can compete to see who takes the top spot.

Speaker A: I will tell you, I have one daughter, one son, and I used. When they were younger, I used to say, you're my favorite daughter. And I would go to my son and say, you're my favorite son. And for a while, they really kind of believed that they were the favorite child.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, they got to an age, and I'm like, uh, you're my favorite daughter. And she's like, well, I'm the only daughter. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, Works. Even though I didn't really mean it, that they were more favorite than the other, but that really was funny for a while. Me, uh, and my husband laugh about it all the time.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Uh, my brother in law says I'm his favorite brother in law from Alabama, so. And the same way I'm the only one from Alabama, so. Good stuff. Well, let's jump into the real reason we're here. Um, and that's to talk some finance and background. And we're just really honored. Pleased to have you. You know, you and I met at a leadership conference in Dallas. I'm really plugging them a lot because I've had two or three guests from that conference on. So, uh, again, that networking and those networking opportunities are real and really work. Um, but, you know, I have a lot of questions for you, but before we jump right in, can you just give us a brief background of, you know, uh, and we're going to get into kind of your work history and things like that, so don't feel like you need to cover it all, but just a quick introduction of who you are and why we're here today.

Speaker A: Sure, Phil. Thanks for the question. So I'm originally from the Middle East. I came, uh, to the United States when, uh, right after high school. I came on a scholarship to study. And uh, really my first role was at PWC right after college. And that's where I got my CPA license and my training. Um, so I'm a cpa still, uh, active. And that's my training. And I always say that while I'm an accountant, I'm also, yeah, you know, an accountant that's very business, um, uh, focused. And that's really what got me into some of the roles that I've had, which have not only been traditional accounting roles, but also the CFO roles, some planning and budgeting roles, some operational, business operational roles and whatnot. Um, so I would say, um, you know, while my training has always been in accounting and controls and the governance and the, you know, the discipline around, you know, reporting and whatnot, but I've really expanded and explored a bit more that made me who I am now. Um, I'll also say that I've changed industries quite a bit and that was intentional. Um, I'm always looking to learn something different and new and I always feel that the accounting can be very much applied similarly from one company to the other. The value principles, the, the process improvements, the automation, all of that can really be packaged as a service that you can take to any company. What becomes to be really exciting is if you're in a new industry or a new, um, area that you haven't worked with before, such as what I've done that really gets me going because I'm now interested in learning about our competition. I'm interested to learn about how the warehouse works, what's the supply chain like, what's the vendors, um, like. And that's usually different by industry. And there's also some nuances and that really gets me excited. Um, and now becomes, and the accounting now becomes a little bit more, um, applicable. And even though it's very similar, but there's also some things that I can adjust because of the industry and what I know. So, um, that's kind of a little bit about my, my background. Um, I've done everything intentional. Every, every step of my career has been, uh, I wouldn't say I had anticipated it or predicted it, but it turned out to be, um, well thought of. And, uh, I'm glad I made some of the decisions I made and I'm glad I also left some companies when I did. So it all kind of worked out and I'm really blessed.

Speaker B: So that's awesome. Yeah, that's great to hear. Um, and based on that kind of what you said, it really comes across, and these are R words, uh, not anything predefined, but, you know, through all that experience, it's through my own research of you, your profile, your history, it really becomes apparent that you've been a titan in the finance world. Um, one of the best at what you do. Then I've researched and seen, and you've held a lot of impressive leadership roles across finance operations and most recently at Rybid. Um, what initially drew you to finance and what's kept you passionate through all those varied careers? I know you said that the, uh, diversity of the different companies really engages you, but is there anything else? And again, what initially grabbed you to end up at PwC and then to just keep going?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going to answer that question in one moment. But you know how often you get it, uh, with a bunch of accountants and say, well, if you had to, if you were to redo all of this, would you be an accountant or would you do choose something else? And most people will say, uh, I would have chosen something else. I'd be the one that would say, no, I would have chosen where I ended up. Um, I grew up with a household of accountants and business professionals and bankers. My dad was a banker at Barclays Bank. So ever since I was very young, I would be frequenting his work. I would, um, get exposed to some of the, um, elements of his work in the business, um, environment and whatnot. And that really got me interested, um, in. In that field. And then I also was exposed to other professions, um, throughout my family, and none of that really interested me, like, you know, on the engineering side or medical side or even anything else, um, uh, law, uh, none of that really kind of was appealing to me. And I think part of it is because I was really good in math and didn't want to be a teacher. And that's a typical answer. You know, you're good in math. You know, you don't want to be a scientist because you're not really, you know, you can't stand, you know, certain. You know, I. I didn't really like physics, but I did like everything else, but I really liked math. And I also liked solving problems. And I thought that this is exactly what my dad was all about. He was very good in math, but he also was a very good problem solver, and he had a lot of good interpersonal skills. So he was able to combine his people skills and love for people with solving problems and helping others, as well as his, you know, love for math and his comfort and. Yeah, so, uh, since he followed that path and went into business and accounting and finance, I thought, well, then that's the path I'll take. And I was. I, um, was really, uh, you know, mentored by him quite a bit. And I was also exposed to others in the profession, uh, at a young age as well. Besides my father, there was others also in the community that we dealt with because of my father's role, um, that were really in that field. That gave me also a better perspective and more of a perspective.

Speaker B: That's awesome. It's beautiful how much of a mentor your father was. Uh, that's really great. So I have to ask, on top of that, beyond your father, did you have any other really instrumental, uh, mentors that you feel like, really kind of, uh, incubated your passion or helped guide you along the way? Was there a CFO that helped that you felt maybe really okay, this. Now I understand what it means to be a cfo and what I need to strive for was a CEO or. Yeah, I'm just curious.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, I've had a lot of mentors in my life. I would say probably a good dozen of them throughout my career, and a lot of them I stay in touch with till today. Um, and each of them have really inspired me to do something different. I'll start out with. When I first came to the United States, I came from a very small town, um, and I didn't really have. There was no Internet at that time, as you can imagine. Cell phones weren't even there. So everything was new to me. And when I met, actually my now husband, he also was a cpa. And we met at a, at a birthday party and he told me he was a cpa. And I said, well, what does that stand for? What is that? What is that? And he had to explain to me what a certified public accountant was and how he went about getting it and whatnot. And I was just inspired. I was like, well, that's what I want to be, you know. And so I would say it started out there and obviously the relationship ended up being, you know, a, ah, romantic one. And then we ended up getting married and now we've been married for over 30 years. So that worked out very well. Um, but also, yes, I think in the work field, um, I would say every leader I've worked with or for, um, whether they were CFOs or global controllers or CEOs or even CEOs and whatnot, or other business, um, executives, um, have been a mentor to me in one way or another. Whether it was formal or informal. Um, I would say I was always observing, you know, what, what's working, what's not working. Um, here's some things that I want to adopt when I become a leader in that position and here's some things I would like to avoid and just by keeping. And I used to keep a log of, uh, you know, when you have this issue with a employee, for instance, here's the best way to handle it because so, and so did it that way and it really was a good outcome or I would, you know, also kind of observe, you know, leaders that have not been very inspiring for me that maybe I did not want to mimic that behavior and I would, um, just be aware of it. So self awareness was really good for me and also tracking that and just being very intentional about what I wanted to do and what I didn't want to do. Most of that is because of the observations of the Metroids. Now I did have some formal mentors that have, uh, taken on some investment in me personally and I'm grateful for that. And um, one of which is a audit committee chair that I've worked with, um, uh, actually for a very short period of time when I was a CFO at a company recently. And she was, um, a very big advocate of myself and my role and the accomplishments. And she was very authentic and genuine. And I don't think she did it because I was a Woman. And she was a woman. Um, I think she did it because she. The reason I know that is because she pointed out some things that no one else probably noticed. Um, and.

Speaker B: Oh, nice.

Speaker A: I was really kind of grateful for that. And we just hit it on and I still called her till today and. And we really are become really good friends. But she is my go to if I have a question about anything or even if I'm just struggling with the way I'm thinking about something and maybe I'm on the right track, but I need someone to reinforce it or to confirm it for me. And I think asking her that, um, and she was a cfo, she was a CEO in her career. She's had a fantastic career, uh, in her journey. Um, I look up to her all the time.

Speaker B: That's awesome. That's very, very beautiful thing and nice to have. And I gotta say your uh, romance story through, uh, accounting certification, you know, we have to get that on Hallmark or something one day. That's great, that's great, that's great. Um, so I'm curious, you know, we've discussed a little bit about how your career's transitioned your journey. Um, you've been working over 30 years, I think at several well known companies. Um, but now I understand you're kind of transitioning to work and if I mess this up, just correct me, please. But you know, working on board, work advisory work, I think you use the word yourself on like a portfolio, uh, job structure, um, and even coaching other CFOs. Can you talk a little bit about that pivot, what that's been like and where you've ended up and maybe kind of what motivated it?

Speaker A: Sure. Well, um, as we talked about before, my dad was a big instrumental, um, character, uh, and mentor for me. And he retired at age 55 when um, and he had six kids. So he was intentional about when he wanted to retire. And I thought that was so beautiful that he was able to retire at a young age and really spent a lot of time with the family, grandkids and whatnot and had a really good quality retirement. Um, and so in addition to being inspired by his career and what he's done, I was also inspired by that. So I also had a goal that when I get to a certain age, which happens to be 55, that I also will retire. And similarly, I would like to have a rich, you know, kind of um, chapter in my life and career to be um, uh, fulfilling, but not necessarily in a work environment where I'm, uh, in a corporate environment. Uh, actually as an employee. So I've been planning this for a few years and the time has come. And, uh, back in July, I took the step in retired, or I would say semi retired from the corporate pool. And now I'm focusing on, um, four things. And I will tell you, Matt, I am busier than I've ever been.

Speaker B: I was gonna say it does not. Nothing about you says retired. Like, and hey, I'll say this as well, nothing about you says 55 as well. So, uh, both of those congratulations, I guess, on the, uh, definitely on the not appearing 55, but semi congratulations on failing every diary.

Speaker A: Right, right, exactly. I mean, I have failed actually. But, you know, so what I'm doing right now is focusing on four different things and I need to really be careful. I was just thinking about that not too long ago. Yesterday, I think I'm like, okay, I'm stretched now and I need to be able to focus and really kind of decide what I want to do. So there are four things I'm focusing on. The first one is board service. I am an audit committee chair of a public company called Tandy Leather Factory here in Fort Worth. Um, and, uh, I'm also a board member of the COP committee and the overall board. So that is, you know, one sector where I'd like to be on boards. I'd like to be, uh, able to bring my experience that I've had for many, many years and just bring it to the, to the boardroom. And um, uh, as a financial expert, that's always helpful. But also I have that operational experience, experience that um, I've gained from different companies as the COO and other roles that I've had. The second one is an advisor, uh, or an advisory role. Whether it be those are small companies or big companies, actually family owned businesses that are generational businesses. And those could be multi billion dollar companies, ESOP businesses, or, you know, private equity held, uh, or public for that matter. Um, so these are more, uh, informal, non fiduciary rules that are more of an advisor where you're actually, um, advising management and maybe helping them out with a project or uh, an item that they need assistance with, um, in that there's no independence in that relationship. And um, it really depends on what's needed. And sometimes I'm just being a coach and a mentor to this, to the CFO or to the CEO. Sometimes I'm helping with fundraising. I could be helping with, um, you know, establishing a board or setting up charters for what the board should look like, or an M&A transaction or you know, you name it, uh, you know, it can be, it's there then. The third thing is mentoring. And I've joined an organization and this is really a good, good for everyone to look into. It's called Up Notch. It's a non for profit and it's a volunteer organization that basically manage matches, mentors and mentees, um, on various topics, depending on your expertise and depending on the interest of what mentees, um, would like to seek. And also as a mentor, which I'm operating as a mentor, I'm also a mentee. So I'm always looking for also people on the platform that I could benefit from. And it's basically, um, a very organized platform. Um, you have your profile, you sign up. If people um, see that you have something of value, they'll schedule some time with you based on your availability. And you basically can mentor them in any topic they would like to talk about. And most of the time those ends up being relationships that you build. And while you're only talking for a couple of times, you end up being really, um, you build a stronger relationship and you become, you know, more of an advocate for them regardless of whether you're meeting on the platform or outside of the platform. So that's a great way for me to give back. And I love the platform. I think the founder has done a fantastic job and I've actually met a lot of great people all over the world, actually from not just in the U.S. i mean there are um, members from everywhere. I've just met with someone from New Zealand that's starting his own business and wanted to get some help on some things. And I was like, okay, this is great. And um, so that's been another area. And then the fourth one is academia. And that's an area that I'm still exploring. M. I'm looking into how I can get to the classroom and really help the new generation of students, MBA students and beyond and all kinds of students to really kind of navigate the job market. Um, I had it easy because I went to, you know, a big four. That was a very natural, you know, uh, transition from college. I had my job offer when I was a junior. I didn't even really go through a lot post graduation because I already had an offer about the start. But I do know that in today's world it's much tougher for um, business majors and graduates to really start their journey. Uh, if they're into the financial accounting and being, wanting to be a cpa, that may be easier because There are a lot of firms out there, Big four and regional firms and local firms that you can start with. But if you're not taking that path of a CPA and you're not looking to be an investment banker, what do you do and where do you get started? And I feel like I can, um, do a lot of, um, you know, guidance there, uh, starting with internships and really actually looking into, um, you know, programs that companies often have that I've led when I was in corporate. I've led a lot of, uh, you know, not. Not just internships, but really programs to bring students into the work. The work field and give, uh, them exposure to the work field. And then from there it could end up being a position, so kind of like an internship, but it could be less formal or it could be very formal. Um, and I think a lot of companies, you know, still do that. And I think it's. It's a matter of finding the right match and writing the right, um, the right organization. So those are the four things. Um, as far as the academia is concerned. I don't know if I'll be ever like, a professor or like a teacher or anybody, anything like that, because I know my kids tell me you will be a terrible teacher. But I do think that, um, my teens have always said, like, yeah, you tend to like to explain things and you like to go into the why. And I said, yeah, that's exactly what it is. You have to understand the why, not just what you have to do. So, I mean, I do have a bit of passion for teaching, so we'll see how that goes. But I'm exploring some. Some avenues there. And so that would be my fourth chapter. So, um, as you can imagine, I'm quite busy, and I'm very satisfied intellectually, quite frankly. I mean, that's one of the things I was concerned about is, yes, if I'm going to retire, I want to stay relevant. I want to stay active on my cpa. I want to know what's going on in the world. I want to know what's going on with the companies that I just left and how things are evolving, what's happening with AI and so this is. All these things that I talked about are keeping me in the loop. Very relevant and very up to date. And that is really something that I'm really enjoying right now.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah. Uh, I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you, uh, I'm gonna give you an F on retirement. Uh, and don't listen to your kids. You Know, they're, they're uh, your favorite and least favorite daughter and son, you know, so just take it with a grain of salt. I think you'd be a great teacher. So, uh, that's great. But yeah, you're gonna fail in retirement, but I think that's a healthy thing. You know, as long as you give yourself time for those walks, uh, and to travel to Mexico, I think you'll be great. Uh, that's an amazing thing. Um, so as we move, you know, as we continue to move through that, and I think that's awesome how you've transitioned. You know, you've talked a lot about having a career that spanned a lot, a very diverse group of businesses. You know, retail, technology, consumer products. Um, were there any core principles or values that have just consistently guided your leadership approach and really led to success along the way?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so I always operated with a set of principles that would be applicable for a finance organization. Usually within The m first 60 days, I would roll these out to my new group and really talk about what they are. And I'm happy to go through them. And some of them are applicable, some of them I adjust. But really one of the first one is a single point of accountability. Um, you know, where you have one person's neck to choke or one person to think, you know, success or non success. And I've been at some companies where you really don't know who's accountable and no one really knows if they're accountable. And it's always like, well, I think he's going to do it. No, she's going to do it. And so I always work through these principles, like for everything, any deliverable, there has to be a single point of accountability. Even though you're leveraging other team members in the input, in the process. But accountability has to be with one person. So in the set of financials, for instance, the accounting for the balance sheet, the P and L, that's the controller, whether that's coming from some information, is coming from the business, from hr, from legal. But there has to be one single point of accountability for the accuracy and whatnot. So that's one principle that I always use. The second one is constant improvement. And I grew up in a world when I was using, uh, uh, I would say 11 columns or 13 columns audit papers. There was no, um, technology at the time. Um, but there was always ways to improve without even much technology that we know today. But imagine now with technology 10 years ago, I started looking into robotics and RPAs because it was available for us to streamline some transactional activities. And now look at AI. So I think having a mindset of uh, there's always ways to improve, there's always more room for improvement. Even though we've just done a big major implementation, uh, or some major project that really enhanced things. It doesn't mean that we're done because there's always opportunities because technology doesn't stop. And so. And then I think the third thing would be um, is um, in addition to uh, obviously the principles around controls and keeping good controls and discipline and whatnot is um, integrity and doing the right thing for the, for the company. So as an accounting function, finance function, you're, you know, we're usually called the gatekeepers of the finance and the finance. So you see a lot of. And uh, I always warn my team like don't overreact because sometimes you're going to see things and you're going to think it's like, you know, this could be fraud or this could be, you know, the problem. You need to really learn the big picture and really understand all aspects before you raise the red flags. But in the same time if you're do raise the red flags, this is your job. And I feel like that's been really a good principle to have as a tone of the top to my teams that uh, we will not tolerate anything, uh, that doesn't look appropriate. Not just from a legal perspective, but what's right for the business. So those are principles that I've always had. But then as far as the team's concerned, um, you know, I like to empower the team and I always say I am convincible. Here's my thoughts, here's what I think we should do. But if you have a better way, I am convincible. You just tell me why, how, where and how you're going to go do it. And you meet very well convinced me because I don't know all the answers. So oftentimes the team would be like, well, I'm not sure if I should uh, tell you this because you've already made up your mind and I'll say no, I'm convincible, so try me. And many times I have pivoted to what the team has suggested or what the team has asked because it was a better idea. And they've taught me something different. And they were very, very well prepared and they, they were right. And so I would say empowering the team in the true meaning of empowerment, not just the words but really allowing them to take on some risk sometimes they will make some mistakes, but that's the only way they're going to learn and they get better.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. I think those are great values, uh, as well. I think the integrity, uh, section and doing what's right, uh, you know, both legally and for the business is really a, uh, point of emphasis that all accountants need to have. I had a mentor, uh, at a young stage of my career that she basically fell on the sword for that. And at the time, uh, it seemed against leadership that was not for that. Uh, I'll give her a shout out. Jennifer Coleman. Uh, and at the moment it seemed really rough, um, that she wasn't rewarded for that integrity. But in the end, uh, her career really went in the right direction and she received some flowers that she deserved, which is great. And then I'll say, I think, you know, what you said about the team and being convincible. I really love the way you said that because what do you have a good team around you for if you're not going to leverage them to their full capability? And I think that goes right in line with some other, uh, leaders we've talked to as well about, you know, staffing a staff with not being afraid to hire staff that may be smarter than you. And I'm not saying that's what your staff was, but, you know, allowing them there. Yeah, there you go. Allowing. Not, uh, being afraid to admit when they have a better idea than you and really leveraging that full value. I think that, uh, humility and openness is really a beautiful thing. And I think it's something that has. There's a couple of unifying things. Always developing, um, always teaching and learning, um, but then also not being afraid to let your team guide the way. Um, have all been kind of reoccurring themes with the leaders we've, uh, talked to. So I'm great to hear from you as well. Um, so, you know, we met at a CFO Leadership conference in Dallas, which, uh, was a great event. And you, as I understand it, have a knack for networking and involved in many organizations such as nacd, pda, like I said, cfolc, uh, and then Women in Retail Leadership Circle. And I think more than that, um, how has your involvement in these networks really shaped your leadership style and your own professional growth and what's the value you really gain from them and you'd like to communicate maybe to our listeners?

Speaker A: Well, I will tell you that I was not very active when I was in the corporate world with my network. And that is probably the one mistake I would say. And I, although I've heard it all the time, like you need to stay active with your network, you need to really make an effort and invest in that. But the reality is I had no time, um, and by the time I was, when I signed up for something, it was always a drag. I always had to drive an hour ticket to somewhere so I would just opt for not participating. And now that I'm in this portfolio career that I talked about earlier, I am finding out you, uh, know obviously more time. But also interest of mine, uh, is to really kind of network with others. So one, I can learn from them and two, they can learn from me. It's a way for me to interact with people. Right? Yeah, I like to work with people. And you know, when you're in this semi retired kind of mode, um, you're not necessarily working with a team. You know, I, I'm talking to a lot of people, but it's different. So one is wanted to really interact with like minded, um, professionals. So that was one, two, um, I'm hoping that, you know, the interactions and the network will lead me to either being able to help in one way or another, whether it be through academia, networking, a board seat or whatnot. So there's definitely something in for me and uh, there's nothing shameful about that. I think most people are not working for those purposes. And to also connect the dots, I find it to be. What I'm realizing right now is I'm seeing things in some of these organizations and I am now able to connect the dots and say, um, well you need to talk to so and so at this organization because I think what you're looking for for is here. And you know, being able to connect the dog is like solving the problem. Right. And that's what used to give me satisfaction when I was in the corporate world. So how do I find that here other than teaching, mentoring is to really connect people together. And I find that to be really exciting. And you know, to be honest, it's the content also in keeping me relevant. I mean you remember from the CFO leadership there was a lot of good content there that is m of quality that everybody needs to know and whether you're in the workforce or m not in the workforce. And it keeps me fresh and relevant. And oftentimes I take some of these topics like, you know, I want to understand more about this, I want to kind of learn more about this one item. So I go deep on some things after I hear them in a, in a, in a um, conference or a webinar or in person. And you know, the fact that we're now back from COVID there's, and Dallas is really good for that. There's a lot of in person networking events and you know, it's fun. You know, you, you get to go, you meet people, you have a drink or two and you interact and you know, what, what's, what's wrong with that?

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: I mean it's like so all of that together and you know they're really great organizations. They all have missions and purposes, uh, purpose, uh, mission to really assist in one way or another. And I find them to be very valuable. And I will say the one regret that I have is I wish I was a little bit more active and more involved when I was in the corporate world when I was very busy working, you know, in raising a family, dealing with elderly parents and whatnot. I really never prioritized not working. And um, uh, while I wouldn't have been able to do what I'm doing now because I have more fun, but even at a small scale it would have been very helpful for me. But there's always time to catch up, just like I am. And um, you can always, you know, it's always there for you. Whenever you, you know, a professional is ready, it's going to be here for you. And yeah, um, um, so that's really been good.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah, that's, that's a great, that's a great way to look about it. And then that's how people like you and I meet. So you know, and you end up on, on great podcasts. Um, and I'll just go, hey, let's, let's give it a shot. Anyone that needs any mentorship in academia, Diana would be great. Reach out. Uh, that may be listening. So hopefully that leads to something. Uh, you know, as a member of, you know, in particular the Women in retail leadership circle and a mentor on the up notch platform. Um, you know, what advice would you offer to women and other represent underrepresented groups aspiring for senior finance roles or to become the next cfo.

Speaker A: You know, I have a lot of advice I can give but I'm going to limit it to one. And that is ah, invest um, in your reputation. And what I mean by that is how you show up to meetings, how you enter companies, how you exit companies, how you show up on social media. Yeah, how you show up with the board. Um, that is all an investment and you need to be intentional as to how your image and your reputation is being perceived.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, and I think that has been a driving force for me in making most of my decisions as to whether I'm leaving a company or joining a company or doing whatever I need to do. That's always been in the forefront is how is this going to impact my reputation? I've worked so hard to get to where I am. I've worked so hard to make sure things are done right and that, uh, you know, things, uh, are doing, you know, based on what's right for the company. How do I maintain that and keep that? Because one little thing can really damage all of that. So I would say pay attention to your reputation and how you show up socially on social media, on the platforms, as well as in person. And, um, as you show up, as you exit companies, many people burn their bridges on their way out. And I always say, well, that's your network. That is the network that you're going to have when you leave and go somewhere else. Who else do you have back to the folks that you worked with in the previous company? And so I think that's. I would say that's the biggest advice. Obviously, there's a lot more we can talk about, but I thought that this was important. At least it was very important for me. And I thought it would be important for men and women alike, um, to really focus on their reputation and their image, uh, anywhere they show up.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's great advice, especially for accountants that sometimes think if I just have the best grasp of the numbers that anyone has, that that'll be all. That's all I need. Uh, I don't have to worry about presentation or reputation or anything like that. And I think we've all, you know, whether we want to admit it or not, have been on the verge of our exit of a company and just wanted to burn it all down and tell so and so how we really felt. And it's never a good idea to follow through with that, you know, and it never serves you well in the end. So I think that's great advice as well. Um, you never know who you'll be sitting across next, uh, interviewing with or, um, asking for help, you know, finding your next landing spot. So, uh, both, both great pieces of advice for sure. Um, so thanks for that. Um, so, you know, you've led teams through significant digital and organizational transformations as well. You know, what strategies have been the most effective in driving alignment, engagement and resilience within your teams and the company during those times of change.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think first of all you've got to win their hearts before their minds. Meaning you need to establish a relationship with them, get to know them, who are they, you know, do they have families? Um, are they struggling with an elderly at home? So really get genuinely to know who they are and what's important.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: I think that's number one, um, in general because when it comes to then making a change, you've got to enlist them. Um, and you have to do that upfront. And I know you hear about that all the time and it does take time and it may slow things down because you need to get everyone on the same page. But if you have that upfront, then things will go smooth and things will accelerate and the success, uh, the projects will be successful. And you do that in a number of ways. One is you have to be a good listener, you have to be an open minded. I mean, I often go in and say, here's what we're going to do because this is the best thing to do. Um, and then I, you know, I end up taking a different route all by itself because of the things we talked about. Because there's something else I didn't realize or I didn't factor a matter that I should have factored in or maybe the resources are, you know, not ready or whatever the case may be. So I think being a great listener, um, really enlisting the, speaking about the why. And I often come and say, listen, I've got an issue. I need to do this, this and that and here's the reason why I need to do it and I need your help. I'm thinking I can go and implement this and this and I can achieve that. Do you think that's going to work? And often they'll say, yeah, I mean we should have done this a long time ago. Um, or they'll say, no, I think you're missing the point. In order to get to what you need to accomplish for the company, you're doing the right, the wrong thing. This is not what's going to work. And so I think being open minded to the fact that I may not be, you know, right on what I'm trying to accomplish, to enlist you, um, you know, change is the constant. I know we all hear that. And you also need to have people that work with you, that are comfortable with change. And the reality is, um, while we all say, oh yeah, change is coming and change is the constant, most of us don't really like to deal with change. Because it's uncertain, it's unpredictable. You don't know what the future will look like. Am I going to have a job? Am I not going to have a job? You know, all that wonderful stuff that humans start to bubbling up. But the reality is, and you know, having hindsight is at the end, everything works out. It really does. And I always say, like, if, if this is not the right organization for you and you end up leaving, believe me, you're going to look back and say, that's the best decision I've made. Because you're not happy or you're not in alignment or whatnot. But also, if you think this change is going to be, um, you know, uh, if you think you're taking risk, try it. You never know what may happen. Um, and there's always options. You know, we live in an end of many opportunities. So I do think that change is difficult for people and it's not as easy as we all think it has. Uh, it's become, even though we deal with it on a daily basis. But I think we need to be empathetic and we need to take it easy and slowly and really get the right people on the same page. Most of the time, if you are really, you know, driven to, to get there and you've got the alignment. But there are going to some, there are going to be some people that are just not comfortable and they're just not. And whether you, whatever you do, and that's okay, that's okay. Um, it just may not be the right environment for them and they need to be a little bit more stable and a little bit more. Less, uh, chaotic and whatnot. Which I don't know where you can find that these days.

Speaker B: No. Right. Yeah.

Speaker A: But you know that, that's okay to, to aspire to have that type of environment. I mean, there was a time in my career where I did not want to lean in. I had young kids, my elderly, uh, my mother was skilled and my husband's, uh, family were having some needs. And I did not want to grow in my career. I just wanted to maintain. And it was about a year, year and a half, I was bored out of my mind. However, I could not take on any more and you know, take on any change. And I made that clear to my managers at the time. I said, I am not going to lean in or uh, lean back for that matter, but I'm going to stay still where I'm at and here's the reason why, and I'm going to do a great job. But I am not going to be able to do anything more than that. And then once that phase, I got that under control, I was able to lean in, you know, more and more. But I think it's okay to recognize sometimes that, you know, this may not be the right environment for me now because of what's going on in my life or my family and whatnot. And, um, when the time comes, then I will be all in, um, and embrace the change.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I think that's great advice. And, and I think it's smart to recognize where you are and not break yourself trying to be something you shouldn't in the moment. So. No, that, that's, that's great. Uh, and that experience. Experience is invaluable. So thanks for sharing it with us. Um, you know, as we get to the end here, I have to ask, you know, it's. It's on the tip of everybody's mind, but, you know, how should finance teams, in your eyes, balance adopting emerging technologies? And in particular, I have to ask, like, AI, uh, while still balancing the risk of it. Right. And maintaining internal controls and oversights.

Speaker A: Right. I think it's a great question and I'm glad, you know, we're talking about it, because it needs to be top of mind of every CFO and every finance executive. Because here's what I think. Every company is going to have to deal with AI. Yeah. And those that do will be the ones that will succeed, or maybe they'll be the only ones around. Right. Um, if you embrace the AI because it is cutting edge, it is going to change a lot of things. It is definitely going to streamline, um, uh, and be a competitive advantage. Now, what I've been saying is controls and doing the right things, always right. I think AI is risky in the sense that you lose control. You don't know what else is. You know, I mean, I'm no expert in technology, but I do know that there are risks with what I think needs to happen in a cfo, needs to champion. This is the same investment that companies seems to make in AI and the talent and in the infrastructure of AI. An equal amount of investment at the same time needs to be in controls and in security and in, um, education and whatnot. So those two have to go hand in hand. If you do one and you don't do the other, then, yes, you may be, you know, you may be unaligned and you may have some risk. But, um, if you do look at it as it's a holistic investment in your company, in your business, in your team, but not to, um, put the controls aside. You have to also advance in your controls because actually AI can help with that. Um, you have to invest in cybersecurity, you have to invest in, uh, and you can't just get insurance and say I'm covered. Companies have to take some initiatives in these avenues so that the AI is, uh, effective and successful. So I think one goes with the other. I don't think it's one or the other. Uh, I'm passionate about controls because that's where I grew up and whatnot. And I honestly, that's how make my life easy because I knew the controls work. And to think that AI is not going to take place or not take over, I think would be naive of me to say that because it is already taking over. I mean, I have an AI personal, uh, you know, stylist that styles my clothes and whatnot. And I mean like, and I don't have to pay for it. And I mean, just amazing things that AI is helping with. And also, it could be, it could be also negative in many ways. But, but the reality is it's here, it's here to stay, and it's only going to get, uh, more integrated into our businesses and our lives. So then what do we do about it is let's get on top of the controls and the security and all the risks that AI brings to companies sooner than later and make that a conscious, uh, investment now.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think you can't stick your head in the sand with it. You've got to make sure you have control. And I think one of the best ways to do that is, you know, take it bite, Bye bye. Piece by piece. Don't try and, you know, bake it all in one day. Um, so I think that's great advice. I really appreciate that. And if you get out to these events that Diana and I go to, uh, you'll see it's on the tip of everybody's tongue. Um, and a thought on everyone's mind. So great to get your insight that as well. Um, as we get to the end here, I've only got a couple more questions. It seems like it's flown by, but, you know, what skill do you think will be indispensable, uh, for CFOs over the next decade?

Speaker A: You know, who knows what the next decade is going to be like?

Speaker B: I mean, flying cars, you know,

Speaker A: electrical vehicles.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: I will say, I mean, CFOs need to be the champions of change at any company. And really the sound of Reason in the sense of what we just talked about, you know, AI, yes, it needs to happen and CFOs needs to get on board quickly. But you also need to look at the other aspects of the business that we talked about with controls and security and whatnot. I think when it comes to driving business and fueling the business to growth, that has to be a topic top of mind for CFOs. Businesses, um, in some cases are really struggling right now, whether it be because of supply chain issues, competition, you know, um, demand, retail challenges, uh, etc, real estate challenge. I mean there's, you name it, right? And so CFOs have to have top of mind is how do you grow the business? What ways, what creative ways you do, do you do to create, to sustain the business and to keep it. And it may not be the traditional ways, it may be something completely different. Uh, but I think that has to be top of mind as far as, um, from my perspective at least, is how do CFOs help the business, um, get to the next step. And of course the CFO has a lot of responsibilities in ranging from obviously the accounting and the transactions and the me in, in the budgeting and the forecasting and whatnot. But being a business, uh, finance leader, I think is, is the key here, is to really be in tune with the business and be able to support the business, uh, not only from, you know, the budgeting and forecasting and approving and disapproving, but really being their decision maker with the business as far as how to fuel the growth and really grow the company and take its place next level.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That's great advice and I, uh, think it'll serve people well. Um, and on the flip side of that final question, uh, of the session, what advice would you give to aspiring, you know, young finance professionals who aspire to become leaders, maybe even the next cfo?

Speaker A: I'd say, um, you know, keep on dreaming and keep on putting those goals for you.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Sometimes it may seem like it's such a far, far stretch, uh, or maybe the environment you're in just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. But I would say never give up. Uh, you know, be intentional with what you do. And if you're in an organization, I always say look at the next 12 months and the budgeting seasons, uh, is a great way to evaluate that if there are projects and investments in the company that are going to grow you, then you're suited to stay there for that next 12 months.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But if you are At a position in a company where you're not seeing anything new and you're going to get stagnant because you're not, you know, there's no new initiatives or new projects or new ideas that you are going to be able to participate in. Then evaluate whether going somewhere else is going to give you more of an edge on your career and teach you and get you exposed to other things. And that's really been the driving factor in me when I decide to leave is, you know, I get to a point where I don't think the next 12 months is going to gain me as much as leaving and going somewhere else and industry or getting to know new people and whatnot. So I'd say, you know, keep your goals in mind. You know, always reach for the. For the. For a higher, um, you know, aspire to get to your goals and work on those goals. Just like any business goals. Uh, have your own. Invest for your own personal goals and invest in yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That's great advice. Uh, and I think continuing to invest in yourself is a wonderful, uh, advice as well. So, Diana, I really. I just want to thank you before you leave today for joining us. Uh, you've had a really illustrious, uh, storied career, so it's great to have you on and get all of that knowledge and, uh, I hope that academic position or involvement comes to you. I'm sure you put the positive energy out in the world. It will. Don't, uh, listen to your kids. And, uh. And yeah, thanks again. And so, uh, you know, that's this episode of the Next cfo. Diane, do you want to say anything before we, uh, uh, sign off today, or are you good with the word?

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Matt, for you and in the team, uh, in putting this together. I think this is a very valuable program. I look forward to watching other CFOs as well and learning from them. Thank, um, you for taking the initiative to do this and especially because of the, you know, focus on new and coming finance leaders and making sure that there's, um, a message for them as well as far as an advice as to how to go to the next level and whatnot. So thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And we, we like to keep this program pretty agnostic, but planful. Uh, is my company and we are pretty proactive on trying to stay involved in the community, uplifting those voices and having our finger on the pulse of the next generation and understanding what they want. So all kudos to leadership there for really, uh, backing us in this endeavor. Um, so I really appreciate that shout out. But, uh, thanks to our, uh, audience out there. And we'll be back and see you again at the next, uh, CFO episode to come. Thanks, Diana.

Speaker A: Thank you.