What It Really Takes to Grow a Fractional CFO Firm

Speaker A: Hey folks, welcome back to the new F Word. Today I am delighted to welcome Kat Willem Kent to our podcast. Kat brings over two decades of experience in the finance sector. Her impressive career includes transitioning from a, uh, prominent position at a leading firm to finding her own company, fractional finance. I'd say that Kat is one of the people who have had first mover advantage in the fractional CFO space. She has managed to successfully get to a size where now and a team of seven people and growing all the time. Uh, interestingly, Kat is now thinking about expanding beyond fractional finance into fractional spaces like uh, fractional HR which they are planning to launch later this year. Uh, Kat emphasizes the importance of vision and um, maintaining a clear purpose to navigate the challenges of entrepreneurship. Her dedication to fostering forward thinking business practices makes her a standout leader in the financial industry and we are delighted to get to speak to you today. Let's get into it. Welcome to the new F Word podcast where we cut the fluff on business finances and lift the lid on the new F word the fractional finance revolution. It's a game changer for small businesses. I'm your host, Colin Hewitt, co founder of float cash flow management for Xero on QuickBooks. We believe that really understanding your business finances makes all the difference in the world and having a strategic partner like a fractional CFO is the key to unlocking that. So join us as we dive into personal stories and actionable insights from forward thinking finance leaders and seasoned entrepreneurs to discover why fractional finance leaders have become an irreplaceable part of small business leadership. All right, Kat, it's great to have you on the podcast. Um, why don't you tell us where are you at the moment? That's not your usual setup.

Speaker B: No, it isn't. So I have escaped to London for the week because it's half term holidays here and um, my husband's kindly at home with the kids. So it means I get to have a week away where I can mainly just be responsible for me and the business. So I love it. It's a chance to escape different scenery. Yeah. And I managed to get an awful lot of work done.

Speaker A: Amazing. So it's kind of like a work retreat. Like it's well, well being and work at the same combined into one.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, loving it.

Speaker A: Brilliant. And um, obviously I've seen, I kind of came across your content, uh, uh, around the time we were sort of looking at um, fractional CFOs and realizing this is just this new phenomenon and more people need to hear about it. Um, you've been one of the big advocates for it, you've done a lot of great content and you've really been, um, like creating and communicating really well. So why don't you give us. It'd be great to hear the backstory as to how did you end up running fractional finance and. Yeah, tell us more about what that is.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I guess fractional finance, the idea was conceived back in summer 22 and I was thinking about the next step in my career. And at that point I was working in an accountancy practice and thinking about making the step up to partner. But it didn't quite feel like the right fit. It didn't feel like I was in the right place. And I met someone who was a friend of a friend who was over from Australia, um, and she was or runs a fractional CFO business in Australia. And I think fractional CFOs have been around for longer in the US and in Australia. And I hadn't really come across the concept. And she talked me through like, her background, her experience, what she'd done with her business and the kind of things that she got to do. And I was just like, now that is what I want to do. And as soon as she told me, I just kind of lit up. And I can remember we'd had lunch, we were in London and it was a lovely sunny day and I went and sat in one of those, it was round by Paddington and they had got like an open seating area and I sat in one of the seats there and just mapped out what was to become fractional finance. Like it all just flowed so easily. And then, um, the next. Yeah, I had a day with my mentor, a mentor that I had to kind of plan out the business. And then the next day I handed in my notice and then I had six months to build fractional finance because I had a six month notice period. And that's where I got really clear on the types of businesses we wanted to work with, exactly how we wanted to work with them, um, our values, all of those kind of things. Um, and then, yeah, we started in January 23rd and not looked back since.

Speaker A: It's been pretty amazing. So you. That must have been quite scary, you know, just jumping in from. I mean, obviously it sounds like you have support, you had a mentor, you had, you know, you'd find who's done it before, but still you had no clients and you're jumping in. Did you. Had you built up some, some savings that Give you some confidence that you could do this. Or what was the. What was that early stage like?

Speaker B: Ever since COVID actually, I've got increasingly woo woo about all kinds of things. So the fact that I had this conversation and then I'd already booked in a day with the mentor, and then around that same time, actually, I think actually that same week, I found out that I'd come into some inheritance, which is incredibly fortunate. All of those things came together and I was just like, wow, this is a sign that I'm supposed to do it. So I was fortunate that I had this inheritance coming through that meant just gave me. It gave me a longer Runway to really kind of get the business up and running. And yeah, I can remember telling my husband I wanted to do this, and he was incredibly supportive considering I was just like within the space of 48 hours, went from I want to be partner in a firm to I want to quit and start up my own business. But my, my long. My. My logic was if it all goes wrong, I would be able to get another job relatively easily. Was, was. I was pretty confident. So it kind of felt like, I guess a risk, but not really because there was a, uh, a way out of it if it, if it didn't pay off.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's great. You know, just that, that sense of, yeah, I can. I'm, um. You're back yourself to figure out, figure out the next step if it doesn't work out. You know, I think that's something that, you know, I've certainly thought about in my journey. Like, what if I was to do another company, would it work? And you know, that kind of thing and just thinking, well, even if it doesn't, uh, you know, I can do something else. Like, you know, you've constantly got this new stream of ideas coming online and, and uh, that gives you more confidence just to kind of make those, take those leaps. But it is a big step for a lot of people stepping into the unknown.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's the thing. It is backing yourself. And, and I also kind of thought. And I don't think you necessarily think about it too much as an employee, but as an employee in a business, you're backing the people that are running that business business to continue to grow it so that you've still got a job. But I was, I was just as confident in my abilities as I was in theirs. So I was just like, well, I might as well back myself to go make it happen rather than back then to continue growing so that I've got a job.

Speaker A: Yeah. And where did those early clients come from? I know you jumped on LinkedIn. Was that pro? Was that the, the meme, sort of, um, feeder for you in that.

Speaker B: Yeah, LinkedIn was really big. So I had a couple of people that I knew who gave me, like, smallish bits right from the get go. So, um, but that was nowhere near enough to kind of sustain and get to where I wanted to be. So, yeah, LinkedIn was really great. And I can still remember, uh, it was over Christmas, actually, someone, um, sent me a message on LinkedIn on Boxing Day to like, work with them. Um, and they became my first. I count them as my first proper client because they were the first person that bought into me and what we were doing without knowing me beforehand. So, yeah, I was very grateful that, yeah, that company decided to, yeah, pick me. Um, but, yeah, LinkedIn's been huge. Huge. Yeah.

Speaker A: And like, obviously starting. So you went from just yourself to building a team, really. Quite, um, looks like, you know, on the site, it looks like it's quite a few, you know. So how has that developed and how have you find that changed from going from employee to running multiple people?

Speaker B: Yeah, I always knew that I wanted the business to be more than just me. So that was the plan when I first set out. And I'm trying to remember the order of how people came on, but I had, um, someone who I used to work with, um, so I trained at Deloitte and I had someone who I'd worked with there who had gone in to be a CFO, gone into industry, and he'd seen my heading on LinkedIn had changed to fractional CFO and he's just like, oh, I'm thinking about doing this fractional CFO thing. Um, and so he came on board. I think it was just like a day a week or half a day a week or something really easy to begin with. And then it just, yeah, built from there. Then we brought on a more junior kind of finance assistant to do some of the bookkeeping and the processing because our offering is like a full stack offering so we can be the whole finance team for businesses. And it was really just figuring out what we needed when. I think the hardest people to recruit are, uh, bringing on CFOs. And we've got a mixture of some employees, CFOs who are employees and some CFOs who are contractors. And getting that balance between winning the work and having them on board is a really tricky one because you don't want to have them on board. Without any work for them to do. But you don't want to win the work before you've got them. And generally when you win the work, the person wants to know who their CFO is going to be. So that's a really fun challenge to kind of balance all of those things. That's, I think, been the hardest thing I've had to do. Just, yeah, figure that out.

Speaker A: And this is. Do people generally, uh, do you find people want you? It's like they're coming for you and then they're finding out, oh, you're not going to be my cfo. Is that a. Is that a problem ever?

Speaker B: I wouldn't necessarily say a problem. I think one area that I need to get better at is when I have. Because I'm the one that pretty much has all the sales conversations when I'm having them, um, remembering I'm not selling me, I'm selling the business. And that's something I've still, I'm still working out. But no, I think it's just being clear. So. So they understand our model and that, that it's not just me that you get one of. Um, many. It's funny, sometimes people assume that they're going to be I'm going to be their cfo, and other times they assume that I don't do any. I, uh, was about to say don't do any work, but obviously like, don't do any like client facing work. Whereas I'm definitely. I do both. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. So how do you split it? What's your do you. Are you the CFO for some of your clients and probably for a few

Speaker B: more than I would ideally like to be. Um, uh, and there's a bit of a transition to do there, but yeah, again, that's a hard one because it's my business as well. I'm always. I feel like I. If there's slack that needs to be picked up, like say we've won a new client and there isn't really an obvious solution, I'm like, oh, I'll just get stuck in and do more. So that's again, something for me to work on. And over time I want to get to the point where I'm the CFO for a few key clients. Um, and then everything else is managed by the team because we also have some clients where one of us is the cfo. But actually the CFO role is relatively small. Uh, if they had like an FP and a manager working for them, actually that would give them most of what they need, it's just then a few meetings on top. So that's something that we're looking at evolving just in terms of um, our internal structure and who does what to, to free up some of that capacity at the CFO level.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think the problem is for a lot of businesses, they just don't know, you know, they're in this transition themselves and they're, they're, you know, I had a guy recently reached out to me, said I've just had a demo afloat. Um, I really like it. But I've also just been reading your posts and thinking maybe I need a fractional CFO as well or that's maybe the best route to start rather than just me trying to jump into using apps. And I think, yeah, it's again, the question isn't, isn't always the fractional CFO is the first, you know, is it, is that the first person you bring on or do you try and build the team yourself where you've got a, you know, an ops person or a. Because you just, you know, the whole thing is like you don't want your fractional CFO to be doing all the things otherwise you're paying, you know, high rates for somebody who, you know, you don't always need that, that in the uh, you know, to do that workload. So yeah, how do you typically, you know, I presume people go through some kind of appraisal of what their needs are and then you can allocate different people to different businesses as necessary.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's exactly. And that's that what you just articulated there is the exact reason why when I set Fractional Finance up, I wanted to have a full stack offering because I could see situations where either the CFO coming in couldn't do their role properly because they didn't have the support underneath. Kind of the more junior elements of the finance team or the CFO was having to get involved in doing that, which then isn't great for the company because they're paying CFO rates for a bookkeeper or a financial controller. So it is about when we first start speaking to a client is understanding what, where they're at and what we think they need and then we talk them through. Okay, right, you need to work on this, get this process up and running properly so that then you've got the information. So then we can do a month end close, so then we've got some data, so then we can build a forecast. So then we can do. It's all, it's all Layered and it's. I think it's very tricky if you don't know what good looks like and how all those things should fit together to try and solve that, solve that yourself because ultimately they know that they don't have the numbers that they need to run their business properly. That's what they know, but they don't know how to the best way to solve that problem and bringing in a CFO when you don't have anything else is not in my opinion the, the right solution because you're not going to. The CFO can't magic up the numbers. They can just help you interpret and understand them. You need to make sure that the processes are there to get the numbers right in the first place.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. You know that that seems to be. We have people again coming to, to our product to and their. And their finances system is just a mess and so it's really hard to you know make, make a start on something when you don't. When you're chart of a consciousness or you're reconciliation process isn't right. Are you, do you have a, like, are you quite strict on the tech stack that you use? Do you, are you 100% zero or you use loads of different apps or like um, software. What, how does that work?

Speaker B: We are one uh, hundred percent zero

Speaker A: and

Speaker B: we have had some clients who have joined us when they've been on something else. And uh, we didn't say to work with us you have to move. But what became clear is their system was a mess. That's a bit harsh actually if they listen back, their system wasn't as tidy as it should be and there was so much work that was going to have to go into fixing it that we kind of said look, we might as well move you to zero at the same time as part of fixing it because the rest of our stack how it fits together. So for pretty much all of our clients they're zero based. They've we use Fathom for management reports and also for forecasting kind of building a model or we use Excel for building a model and then we'll have Float as a short to medium term um, cash flow forecasting tool. And Xero just works the best with that. With that stack. One of the clients I started working with we put Float on top because it was really important for them to understand the cash flow forecasting. But the uh, QuickBooks integration just wasn't as good. Like I wasn't seeing some of the things that I was expecting to see because I've only ever used it with, with zero. And I said oh, so when we move them it just made everything a lot easier.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, makes sense. I mean, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a context switching. Isn't it often to try and know how everything works uh, and across the board and train your team And I think a lot of people are sort of moving to, to one trusted stack rather than just saying we're completely agnostic. Um, it's, it's okay to be opinionated

Speaker B: sometimes and I think it depends, it depends. So it depends who you're working with as well and the types of clients. Like if, if you're like a, an accountancy practice and you've got a whole mix of clients and some of them are like tradies or that uh, lower level kind of level of transactions and then need from a system, then actually maybe you can be agnostic in terms of the underlying accounting system. But if you want to delve really deep and get to know the client and really understand the numbers and build from that, then I think you have to have a degree of specialism and understanding of the software that they're using and it's difficult to get that across a wide range of softwares.

Speaker A: Yeah, and it's quite exciting um, in terms of, I don't know if you've come across um, sort of these multi entity apps that are allowing larger companies to stay on, you know, platforms like Xero and QuickBooks for longer. Um, have you tried Mayday or Translucent or any of those solutions yet?

Speaker B: Yeah, I've tried Mayday. So I'm part of the, I think this is, I should know what the name is. I think it's called the flac, the Finance Leader Advisory Council of Mayday. So yeah, I kind of know Mayday quite well. Um, and I think there's this preconception that once you get to a certain size you need to move away from zero. But actually I think the longer you can stay on a system like that and then happily plug in the other apps around it, you can actually grow to a decent, a pretty decent size without needing to implement like a netsuite or something else like that. So yeah, I think, I mean I'm a big fan of Xero. So the longer you can say on that the better for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, and in terms of just thinking, you know, one of the phenomenons we're seeing is like lots of little groups of fractional like coming up on things like Slack or WhatsApp. And um, have you found Any of those. Have you, have you joined any um, sort of support groups for other fractional CFOs or UM forums like that? Have you find them?

Speaker B: Uh, uh, I, so I'm part of um or connected with grow cfo. So I kind of am part of that community. But um, I think again one of the reasons why I wanted to grow fractional finance the way that we have is because. So at the moment there's me and two other CFOs soon to be another one joining us. We've actually got our own little group. So it's really great because every other Friday we meet and we have a bit of a debrief and we can pick each other's brains on things. And I think that that support network is really important because it can help you. Yeah. Think about a solution in a different way, shortcut, all those kind of things. So I think those, those groups are really invaluable particularly like if you're, if you're a solo fractional cfo, um, having someone else that you can, yeah. Bounce ideas up. And also I get opportunities that aren't right for me. So it's nice to be able to go actually maybe go and speak to so and so and vice versa.

Speaker A: Uh, I mean obviously that's great. I think some, you know, there's obviously some very big networks of fractional CFOs out there and they would have the benefits of, you know that uh, but in sometimes then if they're too big I guess, you know, there's so much noise as well. So that sounds like having a small group that you're connected to. Sounds fantastic. Yeah, I've come across grow cfo, um, and uh, you know, things like that I think are really, really good. Well I was going to ask you what is coming up for you? Like what's, where do you see things going? How does that, how, how does the future look in terms of what you're, you're working on next?

Speaker B: Well we've got big ambitions so fractional finance over. This is our, just coming into our third year of fractional finance so looking to continue to grow that with yeah. Built the team up to seven of us. Uh, yeah, continue to grow that, start working with more clients. We predominantly work with like tech and service based businesses so adding more to uh, more to our portfolio. But we're also expanding beyond finance. So uh, last year I was on a retreat in Bali and I had the brilliant idea that you could take the fractional finance model and replicate that for all the other kind of departments that you have in a business. So fractional HR, fractional marketing, fractional CTOs, all of those kind of things. So um, that will then be the fractionals group. So um, yeah, very shortly we're going to be launching the fractionals group and our next group business which is fractional human resources. So that will be number two of seven in total that we're planning on launching um, over the next quite few years.

Speaker A: That's really great. I love that. I think, you know, certainly fractional HR is something that again, you know, uh, we, I think we could really use at float. Um, you know, it's sort of something that depending on the size it gets picked up in different ways. But having a dedicated like person who's you don't need all the time but just somebody to be constantly pushing in the same way, that same way that a CFO is pushing on the numbers and uh, the plans, like what? You know, I think we could definitely, it's definitely something that gets overlooked. So that's really definitely something for us to talk about. Um, and when you, when you come into a business are you typically at the moment, because this is quite new, are you typically the first fractional role they're hiring, uh, do you find or have they been at it for a while? Are they coming from somebody didn't work out or what's been your experience there?

Speaker B: It's been a whole mixture actually. Some, a couple are where they've had a fractional person in um, and it hasn't worked out. And often that's because they've brought in just a fractional CFO and they haven't fixed the problems underneath. Generally they'll have had their bookkeeping and month end close process with their accountants. And that hasn't been done, has been done fine from like a making sure the VAT returns correct perspective, but not done fine from making sure the numbers have been coded to the right places consistently so that when you look at a P and L, the P and L makes sense to like someone who knows the business. So then the fractional CFO couldn't do what they needed. That's a big one. Or they haven't had a, haven't had kind of senior finance leadership. They've been managing that in house. Um, and they are now getting to the point where they're thinking about some fundraising. They know that investors are going to expect more from their financial reporting than they've got at the moment. So they want to put those things in place to make sure that they've got the Information that their investors are going to need, um, on a regular basis. So that's a really key point where we, where we often get brought in.

Speaker A: Makes sense. And if you, if somebody was looking to join up, you know, they were thinking of going solo and they were maybe thinking, well, actually it makes sense to, to join up with a group like Fractional Finance. You know, what, what's your typical. How do you recruit? What's your. What do you typically say to people? Is it kind of an interview? Do you. Do you have a kind of pipeline of people that you're. You have ready to go with as. As the clients come on board? Um, do you have like a. Yeah. How does, how does hiring and expansion work for you?

Speaker B: Yeah. So it's interesting. At the CFO level, there just seem to be so many people that are making that move into wanting to become fractional that I think almost like maybe once a week I get a message on LinkedIn from someone saying, oh, I'm thinking about becoming fractional. Can we have a chat so I can understand a bit more about it. Um, and I will give my time for those conversations if I can, particularly if I think their experience could be a good fit for us. Because I almost treat that as a bit of a interview type process. Like, could they work. Could they work with the kind of clients at the more junior levels we have in the team? Then it's a more. It's often a more formal kind of application. We know that there's a role there. Uh, and we'll do a, uh, job ad and people will apply for it. But at the cfo, it's a bit more kind of ad hoc. They've kind of often come from, like, friends of friends or people that we know. But, yeah, I think it just seems to be. Yeah. A regular occurrence of someone. Yeah. Dropping the message. And I know, um, I saw Daniela Westbrook, uh, Danielle Wainwright. Not Daniela Westbrook. She's obviously not fractional. CFO Danny Wainwright put a post on LinkedIn about the same thing that she was getting, um, lots of messages from people. I think it's just a lot. Yeah. People in industry are just thinking, actually, this fractional thing could fit better with my lifestyle, could be more interesting in terms of working with different businesses. So, um, yeah, I think it's really appealing.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think Danny's actually set a course where she's training people if they want to move into that as another kind of stream of her business. Um, which is really interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, I sometimes refer people onto that course as well. I'M like, go check out her course. Yeah.

Speaker A: And do you think it's got to the stage yet where. I mean, I used to run an agency before Float and you know, we were obviously being brought. Every time we were being brought in, it was a pitch situation. Like 90% of the time it was like going up against other agencies. Are you finding that you're being brought in as a kind of one possibility and you have the pitch or is it more, you know, is it still. The supply's not there yet and, um, people just like come and work for us?

Speaker B: No, I, it's definitely competitive. Well, for me anyway. A lot of them are speaking to, not necessarily Maybe other fractional CFOs or other ways of solving that problem. So it could be that it is, um, because we're doing the full stack team, it could be that actually they're maybe just speaking to one or two other fractional CFOs on their own, or it could be that they're speaking to an accountancy practice that says that offers the CFO advisory stuff as well. So I think people are looking at the different options. Sometimes if it's um, like a personal recommendation, then obviously then it's non competitive or the other area that we want to focus on more as a business is working closely with, um, um, venture capitalists or private equity. If they've brought us in and it's worked out well, kind of almost becoming a bit of a preferred supplier. Like actually, we've worked really well for your business. Yeah. Maybe you could recommend us into some of the others because it's important for them to know that someone's got a handle on the finances. So yeah, uh, there seems to be a lot of, a lot, a lot of demand out there, but also a decent amount of supply. It's just about finding the right fit, I think.

Speaker A: Have you ever had to fire a client in terms of, you know, somebody wasn't a good fit for you or you just didn't enjoy working with them?

Speaker B: Um, I wouldn't say no. I'd say a couple of times we've mutually, we've both agreed that it's not working and we should stop working together. But I've never had to say, yeah, like they think it's fine. And me go, no, it's not a good fit. I think you get a decent sense when you're having those initial conversations. There have been some clients, some people who have got in contact and I've kind of followed up and said, no, we, it's not the right Fit or things like that right from the get go. Yeah, because you, you get a sense if, yeah, if it's, if it's going to work out. But I guess again also it's hard because particularly when we were first starting out, it's really hard to walk away from revenue because you're like, I need to get some money in the door. So there were some where. And then you get clearer on what actually is the right fit for you in the business and that evolves too. So it could be that they were a good fit at the beginning, but you've moved in a slightly different direction and then they're not as such a good fit. So yeah, I haven't had any horror

Speaker A: stories so far and yeah, I think like something just be great to touch on. You mentioned it, you know, sort of alluded that you're, you've sort of been getting a little bit more into the spiritual path or you know, um, believing in something bigger than just uh, you know, the sort of, the hard facts of life. Um, what, what has that been important for you as an entrepreneur? You know, somebody's running a business, somebody's dealing with the uncertainties. Like how has ah, that helped you? Uh, just. Yeah. With your, you know, your health and all that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think so, definitely. Um, and I think there's lots of different elements to it. So there's. I spend quite an awful lot of time on like personal development and whether that's like reading and listening to podcasts or whether it's I guess some of the deeper work about my own beliefs about what I can and can't do and like where I get in my own way and overcoming all of those kind of things or then just. Yeah, the visualization manifestation. Yeah, the bigger stuff. I think I know for sure that if I hadn't focused on all of those things, the business wouldn't have grown as quickly as it has over the last, over the last two and a bit years because my mentor kind of says that particularly as a founder, you're the container of the business. And so the business can only grow as big as the container. So you need to keep on constantly growing yourself, otherwise you will hold the business back. And um, so that's what I've tried to do as much as possible. And a lot of that stuff is like for me it was deep held beliefs about what I was capable of doing. And um, overcoming those has meant actually I can grow a lot faster because I don't, I don't know if you ever find this, but like you'll just do things where you'll get in your own way or I think it's in a book. Have you ever read a book called the Big Leap?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's where um, some of the examples are. You basically you make yourself sick because like to stop yourself getting to the next level, you physically make yourself sick. So you can't do it. Um, and it's just holding you back. So doing all of that work to overcome those things has had a huge impact. And it's, it's constant, isn't it? You're always, it's like layers. You put you, you've kind of overcome something and then you, oh, there's something even deeper and you, you, you go further and further down. So I guess that's more of the mainstream stuff. And then, and then I also, I have like monthly energy healing sessions that I've got someone, she's based in Australia and she does some stuff over zoom. No idea what she does, but it's. Yeah, it just shifts things. Um, and yeah, helps helps me achieve more. So I guess I don't need to understand it really.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a big, that's a big part of all this stuff. Sometimes it in this world is very much in the hard numbers and you know, just the rational mind and, and then like a lot of business growth, like you say, it's, it's limited by the, the people who are leading the business, their relationships or their beliefs or you know, the stories that they're telling themselves. That's the, that's what's holding people back. You know, that's certainly been my experience is just realizing like I have to step into a bigger identity if we're going to grow our business. And you know, sometimes I'm holding on or I'll there, You know, it causes tension in other areas but it's often tensions show up as just, you know, stuff that you're, you're holding against yourself. You know, like somebody's not doing enough work. But really it's all, it's your own self view that's like I'm not working hard enough either. So just like, ah, yeah. I mean without like doing copious amounts of therapy, it's almost, you know, I found a coach that can kind of just help point that out to me very quickly. Like that's a story. It's not actually true. Um, so yeah, I think that's, it's, it's huge really. And I guess it doesn't really. Maybe there's a fractional um, a fractional rule in there as well. Like beyond the. Because it's hard for the CFO really to play that. You know, to play that. But you can probably see it sometimes with your clients, I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, I think that's why all CFOs, they bring a different element or focus to it. And whilst I'm obviously a big numbers person because that's what I do, I'm very much into like feelings and instincts and beliefs and, and seeing all those kind of things. Seeing all those kind of things as well. And yeah, you do kind of be a. You can be a uh, sounding board for all different kinds of things. And that's where actually you've got to have a really good relationship with the clients. So you can actually kind of go. Do you think maybe that thing is actually this other thing over here that's the problem. So yeah. That you have to have those good relationships to be able to. Yeah. Flag those things up.

Speaker A: Mhm. And yeah, I think. And good for you for like talking about some of this stuff because I think again that's in terms of like part of this game is about being willing to put yourself out there and you know, certainly that's not something that people talk a lot about. So. Yeah, that was, that's quite. I saw you, you've done a couple of posts early in the year and Yeah, I think that's, that's quite brave and I think there is a sort of threshold that you have to get beyond sometimes and that a lot of people just aren't willing to do that. They're too nervous about what other people will think or uh. So yeah. Has that, does that feel like a threshold you stepped over in terms of your um, just being able to be more yourself?

Speaker B: I. Yes. And I think um, like a big thing for me like in, in all. Well, I would say over the last kind of five to 10 years it, it felt like up until that point and I don't know if it's just cause I was younger but there was a, ah, you had to play a role. You had to present yourself in a certain way. You had to fit in. And I think it was like maybe my training growing up in like a big four firm and I don't know, very strong kind of. I had very narrow views of what success looked like because of who I could see being successful. And so I felt like I had to play that role. And then you kind of just get older and you get clear on who you are and what's important. To you. And therefore it then becomes easier to show all of that to everyone. And, and my, My. I. I, uh, do some of those things and share them because actually some people will like that and it will draw them towards me and some people won't like that and it will repel them from me. But that's great because they're not my people. They're not who will get me if we spend more time together. So why wouldn't I share that? So that those people that would get me and I'd get them can see and go, ah, ah. Actually, Kat. Kat thinks how. I think Kat would be an interesting person and pull them in. I think if you're. And I think that's the thing with social media, it's easy. Um, sometimes people are controversial for the sake of being controversial. Do you know what I mean? Like, we'll say things just to be a bit Marmite. And I don't agree with that. But I also. I don't want to be vanilla and just be the same as everyone else. So it's getting that balance right between. Yeah, showing your true self or as much of it as you're willing to, but without being. Doing stuff just for clickbait.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Um, and final question. Any advice for somebody who's thinking about making the leap into the fractional world? Like, what would you. Would you say to them?

Speaker B: Do Danny's course, um, if you wanted to find out more about it. But I think, um, just. Yeah, just if it's drawing you take the risk because I think there's a huge demand out there. Um, everyone's got a slightly different skill set, so it's just about finding the. The businesses that will work right for you. And, um, at the end of the day, if it all goes wrong, you'll be able to find something else to do. So, um, yeah, take the leap.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Love it. Kat, thanks so much. It's been great chatting to you, um, and look forward to speaking again soon.

Speaker B: Cool. Thanks, Colin. Loved it.

Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the new F Word. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember, expert financial advice shouldn't be limited to those with just big budgets. You can access the same level of advice for a fraction of the costs, thanks to this fractional revolution. I believe that every growing business needs to know how much a game changer this can be. So if you loved the episode, please consider subscribing to the show. It'll help us keep doing what we're passionate about. And feel free to share this episode with others who might find it useful. Finally. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to connect with us on LinkedIn. See you in the next one.