#307 - #1 Magic Coach to YouTube Strategist for Red Bull; 0 to 300K on IG in 6 Months | Oscar Owen

Speaker A: We grew from 0 to 300k on Instagram in six months. My channel, with 30,000 subscribers, makes more money than my channel with 1.5 million.

Speaker B: Today's guest is Oscar Owen, the number one Magic Coach in the world turned YouTube strategist. He built his channel to one and a half million subscribers and half a billion views, and now helps brands like Disney, Red bull and the BBC dominate YouTube. Let's get into it.

Speaker A: The most important skill you can master, uh, on social media is communicating to the camera.

Speaker B: Well, learn how to speak in hooks. If you like ketchup, you're worse than dictators.

Speaker A: You don't need 100 videos to become success. You just need one of the right videos to have your life change.

Speaker B: You're one video away. It's literally learnmagic.com how much was the domain?

Speaker A: I pretty much emptied my bank account.

Speaker B: My first million took me about five years. My first million with my second business took me two months.

Speaker A: That's crazy. Information is no longer the thing that people pay for. Now what people pay for is actually

Speaker B: one thing I wanted to ask is how did you start with magic? What was the first magic tricks you learned? And how did you learn it?

Speaker A: Uh, I just got. Literally, I was like 10 years old. I think I saw David Blaine or something like that on TV as you did. Uh, and I think I remember. I remember watching him perform a trick, and it was just this weird thing where it's like, with 52 bits of paper, 52 cards, he was able to just amaze someone. So I remember seeing it and being like, oh, damn, I want to learn to do that. So then what I did was I was like, okay, let me, Let me learn some magic. So I went to, like, my local bookshop, but there's no magic books. I went try to, like, buy tricks, but they're, like, really expensive. I tried to join a magic society, but they were too also, like, exclusive. And then I went onto YouTube and I just started learning magic for free there. So I first started just like, consuming magic content, learning this, learning this, learning this, started performing it as well after that. And then at one point I was like, you know what, I may as well. This is like, back in 2016, I was like, I may as well just start putting tutorials out on YouTube as well, because it's kind of fun. And why not? So I basically just started posting to YouTube that way. And 10 years later, the channel's grown to 1.5 million subscribers. It's done, uh, over well over a quarter of a billion Views and it's basically what I do full time now, which is really fun.

Speaker B: So crazy. When, when you started posting about magic content, magic tutorials, I'm assuming you were, you know, you were the teacher, but at the same time you were learning it yourself. How, how long did it take you to have your own unique concepts that you taught on your YouTube as opposed to just regurgitating what you learned?

Speaker A: I think it took me, honestly not very long. Only took me a few months. Because one thing I always say to people starting YouTube, if we apply my context to the wider audience, is I was never the best magician in the world when I started teaching on YouTube and other people who want to do YouTube, one of the reasons they don't do it is because they think, oh, damn, if I want to teach, uh, marketing, I've got to be the best in the world at marketing. But you don't. You just need to be better than other people below you. So, uh, right now I'm probably like a 6 out of 10 magician. And there's people who are way better than me at magic, but I'm better than everyone who's a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And I can provide value to them. So I think it's one of those things when it comes, like for me, like, honestly, when I started I wasn't very good, but like to make that unique content, to make content that was providing value. I, um, was doing that in the first video because it was still teaching stuff to people who were just getting into magic.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I think you can apply that like more widely to Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. If you can provide value to a certain group of people, then you can build a really successful business without being the best in the world.

Speaker B: I feel the same. When I started with the dating content, with my first business, I was just kind of regurgitating what I learned. I mean, I would put my own twist on it, kind of put it through my own lens. But then it took me a while to even then have my own concepts and it was totally fine. People even said like, oh, Max's content is like a mix of this and that guy, which was very interesting. And I love that you said that because so many people get stifled by that. They think they gotta get super good. Like this whole idea of not yet, not yet, not yet, that first step to do the thing. But I always put like this look, what are you really afraid of when you start posting? Because either it sucks and ah, nobody sees it because it doesn't get any views or a Lot of people see it, which means it's good. So you cannot fail. That's a beautiful thing. You win either way.

Speaker A: The biggest thing that people, the biggest fear that people have when it comes to doing any form of social media is the judgment that other people have on them if they find out that they're posting magic tricks tutorials. And I was like, literally, I didn't tell anyone about my magic channel until I had, I think 120,000 subscribers. I was genuinely so scared that I'd like walk into university and people are like, oh, that's the guy over there who teaches magic online. What a fucking loser. Or something. So I didn't tell anyone. I literally told no one. And the way people found out was I, I got sent my silver plaque award. Oh, wow. And it was like slightly under my bed and it was in my university dorm. And someone came in and he was like, you know, like YouTube and stuff. And I'd known this guy for a year, but I'd never mentioned my YouTube channel. And he comes in, goes, oh, what's that? Pulls it out and it goes like, Oscar Owen, 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. Um, but it was the craziest thing. Cause I was like, don't tell anyone, don't tell anyone. Obviously he went and told everyone. The next day, I walk into the university hall and everyone knows. And the craziest part is that no one cared. Genuinely, no one gave a shit. And there's a quote, I think it's by David Foster Wallace, which is, uh, you'll stop worrying what people think about. You'll stop worrying about what people think about you. When you realize how seldom they do. Most people are so caught up in their own lives, their day to day, this and that, and their own stresses, they're not thinking about you and your social media channel 24 7, worst case scenario, gets put in the boys group chat. They take the piss out of you for like 24 hours and then it's over.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So actually other people knowing is one of the most liberating and freeing things that can happen to you because it just gives you permission to like, kind of do what you want.

Speaker B: Amen to that. Amen to that. Did you, did you. Do you sometimes get. Do you get tired of people asking you to do magic?

Speaker A: Well, it's funny because it's like if you're a comedian, no one goes, oh, tell me a joke. Or if you're a musician, no one goes like, oh, play a song. But when you say, oh, I'm a magician, they Go, oh. Where are the cards? Can you do a trick right now?

Speaker B: That's what I'm asking.

Speaker A: So, yeah, I always have. I've got cards on me somewhere in my bag. I always have cards on me now, just for. Because, like, I feel like if you say you do magic or you're magician, I feel like it just comes with, uh, the tagline. Oh, I'm a magician. Yeah. Yeah. Someone's gonna ask.

Speaker B: So are you not getting tired of it?

Speaker A: It's good fun. It's good fun.

Speaker B: That's good.

Speaker A: I can chase my stuff later.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I saw the thing with a tic tac in the eye. Oh, really? I was so. I'm like, no, I'm so bad with eye stuff. I'm like, please don't let it come out of his fucking eye. And it's like, oh, m. My God.

Speaker A: For context, that's a trick where you basically take a tic tac and you swallow it, and then you can snort it up your nose and you can make it come out your eye. Here, I put it on TikTok. I put it on Instagram yesterday.

Speaker B: I just saw it. I'm like, no. Yeah, it's pretty.

Speaker A: It's pretty funny, but it's good.

Speaker B: Do you, um. How long did it. How long did it take you to develop your own magic style? And how would you define it?

Speaker A: That's a really good question. I've never been asked that question before.

Speaker B: Hmm.

Speaker A: I, um, think it's something that's always in development, so I'm always getting better. So it's like a skill that I think you never. I definitely would not say, like, I've mastered magic and I found my style and I've stuck to it, but it's taken me. Probably took me two or three years to, like, get comfortable in front of other people. Uh, before I then really was, like, been able to, like, refine my performance style and actually get good at talking and patter. But because magic is 90% performance, 10% the trick. Right. So you could take the best trick in the world, but if you perform it in a really boring way, that's a boring trick. Or you take a really average trick and you could just put the most amazing pattern, the most amazing showmanship, and suddenly it's a miracle. So for me, it took me probably three, four years to get really, really good. Well, I define good, as other magicians say, I'm not very good, but good enough for me to have the confidence as well, to walk in front of 100 people and perform Magic there or walk up to a stranger I've just met and also do magic in a confident way. Probably like dating in many ways. There's a kind of game level. I've never gone down that rabbit hole too much. But yeah, you've got to get good and then like. But that doesn't happen overnight.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely a thing. It also, it's hugely momentum based and we shot ads earlier down in the city and it's like just. And we tried to incorporate with other people, walk up to people, ask them if they know how to go viral and it's just the first like 5, 6, 7, just like you get bailed out and you're like, damn. And once you open someone and you feel a little bit better and then you open more people and all of a sudden you're really in the zone. And then you're also in this like flow state where it's just so much fun. You get totally addicted to that. Time flies by. All of a sudden everything works like magic.

Speaker A: It's funny.

Speaker B: It's like everything all of a sudden flows really, really well. But I've never thought about that aspect for you. Of course it's also because the audience kind of has to participate in it 100%. Do you, when you do magic, what's your writing process? If you could call it writing a magic trick? How do you come up with ideas? Do you take certain templates from others and see, okay, how can I adjust this to my style?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's almost like copywriting. It's literally like I'll normally watch performance by someone else and go, that was really good.

Speaker B: I mhm.

Speaker A: Identify the reasons why that thing was really good and, and then I take it myself. In the same way, if you're making a YouTube video like you find a YouTube video that's really good, identify the viral parts, let's say, and then take that and as you said earlier, put your own spin or twist on it. Exactly the same with magic and probably like most things in life, I think a lot of the time you don't need to be better, you just need to be different. So with magic, I don't need to be better magician than other people. I just need to be a different magician. To not blend in with the crowd and create something that's unique. And I would say my magic channel, there's obviously a lot better magicians out there than me, but my channel is just so different. It's very cinematic and it's uh, dramatic music and I put loads of money behind production and we have 3D artists coming in. It's just a different feeling that you get when watching it better. That's up to the viewer to decide. But because it's different, it becomes memorable, and that's what actually makes it work. But that works obviously on YouTube, but the same in real life as well. When you're actually performing magic tricks, how

Speaker B: involved are you in the editing process on the YouTube?

Speaker A: Oh, um, man, not at all. My. My channel, with one and a half million subscribers, I mean, it used to be me back everything, everything back in the day. I think I do three hours a month on, um, does in profit, like 40 to 50k a month. So nothing like crazy crazy, but I'm 100% removed. So all I do, I've even outsourced the magic, so I don't do the magic anymore. So it's literally I wake up, I come up with the video ideas just because I want it to be like my video. So I do the idea and title and then thumbnail concept, and then that gets sent off to my scriptwriter, uh, my va. My editor. I've also got like a content manager as well. Just oversee the whole process and go back and forth with them all. And then I get sent once a month, 10 scripts to read. I just read all the scripts. And then the actual magic itself is other people's hands. Um, the edit. I only see the video when it gets uploaded. Just because my focus now is teaching YouTube and I can't spend all my time on a magic channel, as it were.

Speaker B: If those people, your editor, your copywriter, etc would leave, how difficult would it be to get back on that same level? How much of it is the structure versus the people that are working on that channel?

Speaker A: Definitely a mixture. Like, I mean, I think when you hire any good talent, it's like, I'd love to be like, oh, no, my sops are so good. But, like, I could just replace someone tomorrow. That's just not true. Because there's a certain feeling that I think you develop after, um, spending a long time creating videos around one topic.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's like, um, uh, my team is definitely. I've been able to install that in them, so probably take a few months at least. But the truth of the matter is, it's like, it is very well documented. I've gone through probably like 20 editors on that job. I've been doing it for over a decade, so I've gone through so many editors and refined it that to onboard someone new. And often I Have multiple editors because we do, uh, Instagram as well. We do Facebook, we do rumble for some reason. We do msn, um, which is apparently like a place to grow as well.

Speaker B: Wait, really chat?

Speaker A: I don't know. Someone on my team puts it there, it actually gets quite a lot of followers and quite a lot of views. I think MSN has like a video platform.

Speaker B: No way. I never heard of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, they did. We just put it everywhere, basically. M so just trying to get the most amount of leverage from every bit of content we do. Yeah. But uh, yeah, like, I think it's, it's one of those things that probably would take a little couple of months to replace a person. But um, it's. Yeah, editors and stuff are not too hard.

Speaker B: That is so interesting. And when you, when you clip for Instagram for short form, that's a different. That's a specific department.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. What do you.

Speaker B: What other sops for that? I'm building my internal clipping army right now myself. I hired like four new editors in the last couple of weeks.

Speaker A: Oh, nice.

Speaker B: And it's just so interesting because I do so many consulting calls with our clients. I also do training calls with our team. And I just started recording everything. I have a vertical camera in my office. I just click a button, it starts recording on the side. Because I used to just record the zooms, but they're just shitty quality, you know, it's like 720p. Then the. Whatever. The Internet connection isn't stable enough. All of a sudden it gets pixely. The lighting doesn't look good. So I just record everything.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: As well on the side shot. And it's like a super nice lens. And I just dumped the footage. It's just hours every day from consulting calls, from clients, from staff calls. And now my team just cuts it and what they're doing is they feed. So the director feeds the uh, transcript from the zoom call. No, sorry. The transcript from the external video camera. He feeds it into a uh, transcription software, then sends the transcription into Claude with a specific prompt. And then Claude, um, basically captures all the different topics that were talked about and kind of gives it like a rating of like. Oh, this one probably will be interesting for a more general audience. We also fed Claude our audience and what we do, what we teach and what we're kind of looking for.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: We also give them the different content buckets of like my content buckets are um, personal development. Then the other content bucket is what I call dorkiness. Just me. Like m. My Personality where I talk about eating Ben and Jerry's ice cream, anything that's funny and quirky about me. And then the other one is tactical business advice for people who want to grow their brand. And then based on that, Claude then says, okay, here's all the timestamps and here's all the uh, transcripts of each and every part. And it feeds that automatically. And we built an automation into trello and it makes one trello card for each mini topic. Um, and then I get to it and uh, my videographer, my head of videography, he sends me that. And then I say, okay, this topic not approved. This one looks good, fantastic, you can edit it. This one not approved, and so on and so forth. And then every approved video topic then gets to a clipper. They clip it and then they send it to me on frame IO, you know, frame IO I'm sure. And then I can tell them, you know, this is a good part, we can use this or not. Um, that's how we've just kind of figured it out off the cuff. I'd be super curious how you guys do it. Just more like freestyle or what's the procedure there?

Speaker A: Well, we grew from 0 to 300k on Instagram in like 6 months.

Speaker B: Just amazing.

Speaker A: Just doing it just from. But, but what we found was dedicated content for Instagram just performs so much better.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: At least in the magic niche.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Then kind of clipping up this and this and this. I think it is niche specific. So I wouldn't say that's like a golden rule that someone has to follow. Um, but what I do is a lot more simple. It's literally I just have um, my kind of content manager. So all creative directors, what I call them, and they basically come in and they, they just understand my brand and they understand what's performed really well on uh, YouTube over the years. And they just take the best tricks, the best moments, the things that like people just resonate with the most and they just tell me. And then we basically do film days once a month. Mhm. Bit like you're doing here actually. Why? Just come in and I will make dedicated content. But film, you know, 50, 60 videos in literally a day. I think we've got over over a thousand reels made. And then basically what we do is I just have, we do upload three a day, uh, plus like two trial reels and it's just a machine. So every single day there's two reels going out. Uh, we re upload old stuff all the time. M as well, and it seems to work super well. Um, so that's kind of our content. But I'm m very specific about not taking kind of clips from my YouTube channel because it's not native to the platform.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, however, I have seen it work in other niches and I also think in your case, for example, personal development. And I think when it's more like authentic and raw, that can resonate a lot more. Whereas with the magic trick, people want nice lighting, they don't want to be halfway through a trick and see that they want from start to finish, otherwise it doesn't really make sense. So I think it is niche specific. But, um, I just think with all these different platforms, it's like people often are looking for the hack or they're looking for like the AI prompt that will make them viral. And it's not that, it's just like, if you make good content, if you make content that solves real problems for real people and you know exactly who you're targeting and you, you figure out you know exactly who they are and you can explain their problems better than they can explain it themselves. And you make content that just literally targets those people and genuinely helps them. That's when you'll be successful on M, whatever platform you're talking about. And it does frustrate me so much when people like, I'm all for AI. I use AI in basically every workflow that I do. But seeing that as the solution to your problem is I just, I just think it's like, it makes me happy because I know that 99.9% of people who do that won't be successful.

Speaker B: Yeah, true.

Speaker A: Um, I don't know if you've seen the thing recently. It's called M. Uh, it's like igs. What does it stand for? It's Information Gain Score. It's basically how YouTube basically whittling out and all AI platforms and so all social media platforms in the future just gonna get rid of the AI slot.

Speaker B: Ah, good.

Speaker A: What they do is they take your videos and they base it off an information gain score. So what they'll do is they'll get the transcript because it's, you know, YouTube can transcribe any video like that and the algorithm will go, is there anything in this video that's new? Is there anything in this video that's like. Or have they just gone on ChatGPT, asked for a script, read out the script. Uh, and AI is really good at recognizing other AI content because it's literally trained up on the same stuff. So then what happens is if um, the information gain scores really low, AKA everything this person is saying, even it's talking head video, not like a faceless YouTube channel, but like is just the same old shit that like chatgpt says or even this is like SEO blog posts, it's always all the same like this is how they're ranking everything now. Um, if it's the same old stuff, it just kills your reach like that. So in your case, what you're doing there, if you're doing like coaching calls and stuff, innately there's going to be new information in that content. So like you'll be absolutely fine with that. But it's the people on YouTube, I just get like some scripting AI thing and then they'll just like record that and be like, oh, why is my video getting 10 views? But it's because there's nothing unique, there's nothing different. You're putting no work into it. You're not actually trying to do a YouTube channel. You just think you need to do a YouTube channel and then you'll put in the minimum amount of work and anything in life like beyond just social media, but dating, personal development gym, if you try and put in the, if you're on the hack for that, there's no hack for the gym.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? There's no hack for. It's like you can't just hack social media.

Speaker B: Yeah, true.

Speaker A: And I think weirdly with this AI rise, the fact that these companies are really starting to crack down now in AI slop is going to make the best content rise to the top and the worst just not get any reach.

Speaker B: It's a K shaped economy for content creators. Uh, one of my buddies has talked about this a lot, that it's just getting worse and worse for the bottom and better and better for the top creators. And that's also something that I really like that you said it's very niche dependent. For example, what I've noticed because a lot of our clients are coaches especially, you know, they want to grow on Instagram. And um, I'm telling them because they're like, look, I have a freaking coaching business. I got dozens of clients that I got to take care of. I don't have time to now think into social media and you know, create content, as many content pieces as you do max. But I also say like look, you're probably doing a bunch of client calls per day, freaking record those because that will give you at least a bank of content where you could potentially um, post them. And then the second thing is learn how to speak in hooks. Speaking in hooks is the by far easiest way to get a ton of really good content.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That you're literally just recycling from your long form content. So when I have a long discussion with a client or with my staff and it's about like something really nuanced, but then I feel my brain is like, oh, but there's this one point. If I talk about it for the next 60 seconds, this could be a great reel. And I'm just like thinking in hooks. I'm just like knocking out a hook. One of the, one of the funniest videos we've done recently was someone, uh, asked me like, max, what do we do when I have a thick accent? And I'm like, if you have a Russian, Eastern European accent, people are gonna think you're a scammer. Unless you're in the fitness and bodybuilding niche. Because everybody's gonna want to have a fitness, Russian speaking bodybuilder coach. If you're Asian and you have an Asian accent, make sure you're doing something with tech or anything that is like, kind of nerdy because your accent will be an advantage. If you're example, uh, dancing coach and you don't speak Spanish, I would almost be. Or you don't have a Spanish accent, I would almost be bummed out. I'd want my Spanish, my coach to have a Spanish accent when he's about the dancing, you know, because you got to leverage your, your accents. And that was just such a great way to think of a long form piece of content. But because I had this speaking in hooks concept in the back of my brain, I was able to knock that out. And then my team within post it as a short form piece of content. And that really helps with things. And then the other thing that I really noticed is a lot of people say, max, low trust economy. Everybody gets scammed everywhere. I really want people in my audience to understand that I could really help them so they become my freaking client. How do I do that? How can I make people trust me from my content? How can I make them understand that I can help them? And the answer is simple, is by actually fucking helping them, you know, it's like, surprise, surprise. So what we've noticed is every time I have content where I'm helping out a client on Instagram, it might not get the views, it might get only a third of the views. But those views that are, they really realize, oh, wow, Max, this is like really good. Like you're really helping that person. I have the exact same problem. And that extrapolates in their thoughts into them thinking, oh, hold on a second. How would it be if I was Max's client? That, that would be so cool. I mean, he's helping that person get epiphany after epiphany. He's fixing their account, he's fixing their bio. I want that to happen to me too. So it really puts them closer to this whole idea of picturing themselves being your client. And I think that's just such a great way to recycle your content if you do it right because you can

Speaker A: gain a ton of trust. I think that the baseline thing, what you just said, there is communication. So speaking in hooks is communication, helping your clients. That's all a form of communication. And I always tell people the most important skill you can master, uh, on social media is communication to the camera.

Speaker B: Well, mhm.

Speaker A: Because if you're 10 out of 10 technically at something, let's just say you're the best dating coach in the world. But your communication skills on YouTube or Instagram M are 3 out of 10. How do your potential audience see you? Do they see you as the 10 out of 10 or the 3 out of 10?

Speaker B: It's even worse when you're an expert. Yeah. Because the better you become, the more intricate your thought patterns are and the harder it is for you to be simple.

Speaker A: On social media, you are as good as you communicate.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: You are as good as you communicate. So the problem with social media is there's so many skills. We've already talked about teams, we've already talked about communication, we've already talked about editing, we've already talked about being different and uni. There's so many different skills. And the hardest part is getting started because you've got to master all of these skills and then the results come. And so like for me, for example, it was, it was harder for me to go from 0 to 1,000 subscribers than it was to go from 1,000 to 100,000. And the easiest part, 100,000 to a million.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Because I just have to do more of the same stuff that I spent the last years doing. And I've got a team to help me out to. An audience already likes me. So the hardest part, if you're a business owner, entrepreneur, trying to grow on any social media platform, is getting started. And once you can do, because you've got to master scripting, filming, editing, ideation, communication, uh, analytics, you've got to even have to like technically set up the camera. All of these different skills you've got to learn. And a lot of people go, I can't be bothered to do that. I'll just stick to what I'm doing. But then they're the people who don't necessarily succeed. But if they can understand that long term, it gets so much easier. Um, um, especially if you do invest in like mentors and coaches to actually help you out this stuff and give you that accountability. Um, it's, well, it's the best investment in my opinion, you can make for your business. Especially with YouTube, there's a negative cost of customer acquisition because you literally. I've got videos on my YouTube channel that I made back in 2019. They're still averaging nearly 100,000 views a month. And YouTube pays me to have those videos on YouTube. Uh, and they bring in clients and leads and sales and all that fun stuff. So it's, I think social media as a whole is an absolute no brainer for like most business owners. Yeah. But it's just there's so many little barriers and bumps they've got to get over when starting out to like be in a position where the ROI is actually there.

Speaker B: Yeah, the learning curve is super steep. In the beginning, I noticed this too is like we've done a bunch of test accounts, uh, last couple of months that we just started from scratch and it's the same, it's like you make a really good video. But the problem is the algorithm specifically on Instagram. Now I can't talk to YouTube, but in regards to Instagram, the sample size of an audience is only five people at first. Yeah. If you have a completely new account, you make a video and it shows it to five people. Now the algorithm is trying to gauge as well as it can who is the perfect target audience for this. Just based on what you're saying, keywords, transcriptions, as you mentioned earlier, and showing you the five people. So if these five first people, they don't react well enough, if they immediately scroll away, done, your video gets stuck with three to four, five views. It's terrible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then, and then if it gets through that, it shows it to 20 people. And if it gets through that shows it a 50 and then 100 and then 200. That's also, you can see that when you have a new account, a lot of videos get stuck at exactly these levels. They're getting exactly stuck at 5 or 10 or 20 or 50, rarely kind of in between. And um, that really means like you don't have a lot of chances to really make your content shine. But then when it does, the algorithm learns more and more about you, and then you get your first 50 followers, your first hundred followers. Then it gives you way more, you know, benefit of the doubt, so to speak. Okay, this guy's not weird. They're actually making pretty decent content. And then the test audiences are bigger and bigger. And, uh, funny enough because you mentioned reposting. So when you start a new account and you post a video that got like, five views, it's likely that if the video is good, it's likely that that happened because the algorithm just showed it to the round the wrong five people. It's just five people. It's really not a big audience. And then, uh, when you get like a hundred followers, you're like a month or two in, you repost that original video that got you only five views. It all sudden gets a thousand. Yeah. God damn it. I knew it. It's good. You know, so, um, we actually post every single piece of content three times. We post it once first time, then another time after 30 days, and then another time after 60 days, and the variance is huge. Sometimes they get double or triple the views. And if they continue to be outliers, we just keep posting them every 30 days until they stop performing.

Speaker A: There's some reels I've reposted. Like, I must have reposted them, like, 20 times.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And there's still. Sometimes they get like, a million views again. I'm like, where the hell are these views coming from?

Speaker B: It's insane. It's insane. Uh, you mentioned trial reels earlier. So out of your seven daily posts, five normal ones, and two times you post on trial reels.

Speaker A: Oh, no, two a day.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I meant. So five your normal posts and two are, uh, trial reels.

Speaker A: Yeah, basically.

Speaker B: What's those two trial reels? What's the strategy behind those? Are they different?

Speaker A: So I'll be perfect. I'm not an Instagram expert whatsoever. So my strategy was just make really good content. And, uh, someone told me about tri reels, and they said, oh, you should obviously do this. Um, I thought maybe posting one or two times a day at different times, depending on us and UK audiences. So that's like, why post? I don't actually know what time we post, but my VA does it all. Um, but we post basically prime time for UK primetime for usa and then the trial reels. The idea was just to take stuff we already know works super well in the past on our thing but like, not show it to the same M audience, but show it to a new audience. The beauty of magic is it can go like viral. Viral. Some of them get like, you know, 10, 15, 20 million views and then I can just reshare it to my main page if needs be, um, if I want to do that. So the strategy was literally just to reach new people, but I'm sure there's, you can tell me more about what I'm doing, right or wrong based off that. That's literally the whole Instagram strategy.

Speaker B: I mean, you're clearly crushing. Like the numbers at least speak for themselves. I just. The way we're using trial reels. So the main thing behind trial reels was you kind of have to think about why meta started using in the first place. Because they basically said, okay, we have a bunch of creators and they're just regurgitating what works. Because, you know, who wants to risk things with their content if they can just post the content that they know is going to perform well. So they wanted to give creators a chance to post something on their account that is not going to be shown to their audience. So if they want to create something that is different than what their audience is used to, they can post it on trial reel. So, you know, nobody sees and fail, so to speak. So once they rolled that out, of course, immediately marketers like us, we were like, oh, so we could just test 30 different variations of the same video like we would do with ads. Like we just change a single word and see if it performs better. So you know the saying marketers ruin everything. That was like literally an example.

Speaker A: People were just abusing it. Exactly.

Speaker B: It's just a hundred different views.

Speaker A: Exactly. With no consequence.

Speaker B: Exactly. Like change one color of one word at point some, see if it performs better. And then of course meta was like, okay, hold on a second. Now our, ah, platform gets flooded with 50 times more views, but they're all kind of the same videos. So that's where they then started to, um, detect duplicates. So when you would just take a single video, just have a tiny little change, it would detect duplicates and it would get stuck at zero views. And then, uh, now what people are doing, they're like, okay, you have to actually change the video more. And now people are trying to circumvent it with like mirroring the video so the algorithm doesn't detect that it's the same video. Speeding it up a little bit so it doesn't have the exact same time signature, etc. Etc. I'm actually a fan of like what I do is like when I shoot a yap video, meaning just me into the camera, I just actually reshoot that video two or three different times and I change my tonality. I'm like, one, I'm like a little bit more aggressive and provocative. The other one, I'm trying to be a little bit more interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then just see which one performs better. Um, but then again, it's not a necessity to do the trial reels. The main thing is that you, that you can test things without your audience noticing, so to speak.

Speaker A: I also think it's one of those things where it's like, what's the goal of all of the content that ah, people are putting out? So I'm sure you know Will Brown. Yeah. So he's one, one of the people I work with on YouTube. And then a lot of his stuff gets repurposed to Instagram and all these different places. And he's doing organically like around 500k a month just from YouTube. And amongst other things, if you include ads on top of that, he's like pushing the million mark now, which is really cool. And I think he's the best example of like, very often we can get again lost in these kind of like algorithm this. And uh, I'm all for like, again like trying new things. I always think that moving forward and developing is like always such a good thing and I'm always doing that as well. But I think like it's. I always find it so refreshing when I see his content because he sits down with his coffee, talks about a problem. His videos get like 2k views on YouTube. This is. And he'll close like 50 to 100k from that video. From like book sales calls and even Instagram. The Instagram strategy is one reel a day with taken, uh, from his podcast and no dedicated content. He just goes on podcasts like this. He'll send it to like this guy, he'll clip it up. No fancy effects, none of that stuff. It's just one post a day. But because he's talking about, he knows exactly who he's targeting. He knows what their problems are. He can call out their icp, obviously he's got credibility. So he can call out their pain points. And obviously he's got credibility as well, which does help. It's like that's the magic formula. It's just as I said earlier, it's just like making genuinely. And as you said, making genuinely good content that actually helps people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And whatever mechanism you use to get there. Be it like creating loads of content and, like, kind of like, when I say spamming, it's like going pure volume to get views and whistling people down later on in the sales funnel or just making really niche targeted content that, uh, you know, my. My head. Um. My channel with 30,000 subscribers makes more money than my channel with 1.5 million. Because the 1.5 million channel has, you know, teaches magic, and the one with 30,000 subscribers teaches business owners and, you know, brands and stuff how to grow on YouTube. And it's a lot, much more, like, valuable audience.

Speaker B: Snoring. I love the dog snoring. So that was, by the way, great speaking hooks. Like that would be a great clip. My 30,000 subscriber YouTube channel makes more than a few.

Speaker A: Yeah, I've done too much social. I just speak in hooks. Family meal. I'm like, can I just say one really important thing? Dad, this is the best meal I've ever had.

Speaker B: No, no, no.

Speaker A: No one's filming.

Speaker B: Don't give me ketchup. Ketchup makes everything worse. Ketchup is terrible. If I could choose between ketchup and drinking poison, I would drink poison. Like, shit like that.

Speaker A: The worst products I've ever worked.

Speaker B: If. If you like ketchup, you're worse than dictators. What was I gonna say? So, um, with William Brown, he's actually an interesting example, because I know, and I'm not. He's talked about this publicly, that he was crushing with his YouTube, and then he started struggling, didn't get a lot of views anymore. And now he's working with you, and it looks like he's going back up. What are, like, sort of the problems that you saw that he had? And how did you guys fix it?

Speaker A: With Will, he was just trying to. He was trying to go for views. That was the problem. So he ended up getting less views. Because you often see people like Iman Gazzy or Dan Martel absolutely blowing up on social media, and you go, damn, Like, I want to have a million views as well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or I want to hit a million and the vanity metric starts come into play. And again, if that's your goal, by all means, go for it. But if you're. If Your goal on YouTube is views and sales, um, you've got to really focus not on the how, but the who. Who are you actually trying to make videos for? And then the how comes later, which is ideas, types, thumbnails. But the who informs the how. Once you can make really good videos, you know who you're Making videos for that informs your title, that informs your script, that informs your thumbnail. That's the process you got to follow. In his case, he was a little bit more like, we're doing YouTube. For a long time, the views stayed the same, the money was incredible. He, uh, then hired someone who wasn't the best. And, um, they just started doing like crazy wacky thumbnails and like really clickbaity ideas and whatnot. Did it for a couple of, um, months. It didn't work. And now he's reverted back to what he's doing before. And the views are kind of the same. Right. They're not like, you know, it's between 3 to 10k views. But that's so crazy.

Speaker B: But he's still making so much money from it. That's so, you know, is what I said earlier too, is like, you get much less views. My tactical stuff gets a third of the views that it usually gets. But I look at the people who comment and all business owners, blue check mark, they got 10, 20,000 followers, high ticket offer. And I'm like, that's my ICP.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: It's so freaking crazy. And whenever I have like funny videos where I'm eating Ben and Jerry's, everybody likes it. You know, like my m. Mom M thinks it's funny and I'm like, okay, this you just going for mass. But the thing is like, also, just like you said, it depends on how you use it. And it depends on also the mix. I think you can absolutely do well if you have a very niche offer to still make these like, broader videos that get you a couple million views because you still have some people filtering through there, you're perfect icp. As long as that's not your main focus and you actually making the majority of your video perfectly fit for your ICP 100%.

Speaker A: And I think as well, like again, it's all about having a content strategy.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If someone ever says, no, you've got to make viral videos to be successful, someone says, you only make niche videos. Again, in my head, they probably don't know what they're talking about because it's all about having classic, ah, marketing. Top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. So at least on YouTube, if you're making four videos a month, I always tell people you want to grow your channels. That is the more broad top of funnel content that is designed to get views. Middle of funnel content is a lot more kind of like problem solving, how to do this, how to get over this problem. And then bottom of Funnel, which would be your fourth video per month, would be client testimonials and case studies. So what you're doing is you're taking viewers on a journey where they actually discover you through the top of funnel content. They, uh, also might discover you through, like, the middle funnel, like specific pain points that they're actually experiencing. And that's what kind of develops trust and humanizes you. And then the case studies, is that proof where people go, oh, no, he actually knows what he's doing, he's getting those results. So I think it's about having a content strategy and a mixture of all the different things, as opposed to being like, no, just viral content or just super niche content. Um, yeah, that's kind of how I approach it.

Speaker B: Was that also how you built that newer account from to the first 30,000? What was your process there? You started from zero?

Speaker A: Yeah, literally, that's why I basically started. Okay. No one knows who I am, so I've got, I've got to grow. So I started making really, really virally videos. Uh, first video got 50,000 views. Second video got 100,000 views. Third video got 200,000 views.

Speaker B: That's already crazy, FYI.

Speaker A: But that's also in the YouTube strategy space, which is like, so bloody niche. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, so walk me through it. What were the topics that let you hit those numbers for the first YouTube videos?

Speaker A: So, um, creating. When it comes to creating content, the idea is the single most important part that's responsible for 80% of the success of your YouTube video. So I always say the idea sets the video's potential, and then your title and thumbnail determine how much of that potential unlock. You could have the best idea in the world. But if you've got a terrible thumbnail and title, no one clicks. And if no one clicks, no one watches. So I kind of look at all three as like one thing, which is packaging, which is idea, title, thumbnail. And for me, what I did is I just sat down, I went onto YouTube, I found the other videos on YouTube that were getting those kind of views that I was looking for. And I kind of looked at what they were doing, looked at their idea, their title, their thumbnail. So ironically, I think the first video made was how to script a YouTube video, something on those lines, really popular topic. Uh, some videos in there had hundreds of thousands of views. So I was like, cool, let's take that. But now let's leverage my credibility of having worked with some of the biggest brands and creators in the world, plus having millions of views on My own scripts, let's combine the two. And then apply my own system to it. And then I was able to create something that just when people saw it, they're like, oh, this is really, really good. I think my first, I think my first ever video on YouTube, it wasn't just 100,000 views I must have had. I'd no sales page, nothing. I have people emailing me left, right and center, just trying to, trying to work for me.

Speaker B: I love it.

Speaker A: Um, which shows the power of social media. Like, you don't need 100 videos to become successful. You just need one of the right videos that actually provides value to have your life change.

Speaker B: That's m all it takes you one video away. You're one video away from having your entire life change. And it's awesome that they emailed you. Like, you have to go through a lot of hints to find the email, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's funny, it was like super high intent as well. And then, you know, I started taking some clients on then. Cause I was kind of bit more new to the whole YouTube strategy space and yeah, it was great. That's literally how I launched my business. So then that business thing, the first month made like 40, 50k from just one video.

Speaker B: Uh, crazy.

Speaker A: Then from there, like reinvest that back into the channel, build up the team. And that's kind of like how I actually got started. But I obviously did have 10 years of experience behind me, like to make that actually work. And the reason people say YouTube takes a long time is kind of as we talked about earlier, is to get to the point where your videos deserve 100,000 views. You m have to stack your skills.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that doesn't happen overnight. Even if you hire like the best script writer, the best thumbnail design, the best everything, and you're boring and uninspiring on camera. That's how your video will come across.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So there is a big learning curve that you've got to take. But then once you get to that threshold, that's when the results and everything starts come.

Speaker B: And that's the cool thing is like once you have that, that experience stacked up, you can just extrapolate in any fucking niche. You're a perfect example from that of that. It's the same for me. It's like my first million took me. It was in 2016 and I started in 2011. Ish. So my first million took me about five years. My first million with my second business took me two months.

Speaker A: That's crazy because you have the skill Set.

Speaker B: Exactly. And you can already think in bigger proportions.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because you're not thinking, how do I make my first one K? You're just like, okay, how do I make the next million right away already with this offer? How many people do I need? What do I sell? What price point? How do I get the clients? Okay, exactly the same as before. Just insert different niche.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean that's obviously massively simplified, but just insert different niche and go, um. And that's how it goes. Did you know how to sell to B2B people on Zoom already beforehand or how was the process there?

Speaker A: Yeah. So B2B. I kind of split into two. There's like the small business owners. I, um, just see that as high ticket selling. So it was kind of like. It was easier though because it's normally the company's money as opposed to their money. And, um, I'd already done like high ticket stuff. Even in the magic world. Back in the day, I was doing high ticket. I think I launched my first course in like 2018.

Speaker B: You were teaching people how to do magic.

Speaker A: How to do magic. I've got. Oh, yeah, I've got. I run the. It's the biggest magic community in the world. It's the biggest magic School. There's 10,000 members now. We've had people like, go on it. Go on. Bryn's Got talent. They've all become like, loads of people gone through it and become magicians. So, um, it's kind of like real life Hogwarts. It's quite cool.

Speaker B: I love it.

Speaker A: But we still run that.

Speaker B: That is so cool. I just think about it. It's like real world.

Speaker A: I literally.

Speaker B: So it's.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's actually learnmagic.com so sick. It was funny.

Speaker B: How much was the domain.

Speaker A: I was about to say that I was. I think I was 21 years old and it was on GoDaddy Auctions and I need this. Like, it was a God. I literally was looking for a domain. Came up on GoDaddy Auctions learmagic.com I was like, I. I just need that. And I think I set myself as okay because I wasn't making that much money at the time. I think I said like set myself 10k and I was like, it's going to be 10k and that's it. And he just kept going up and up and up and every time you bid, the bid gets like. It goes. You bid by $100 and then it goes up by $250 and then it went. Is going up by a Thousand dollars. And I think I won it for like 22k at the time. Pretty much emptied my bank account. I was like, I haven't sold any courses or anything. And I was like, fuck. And then, then they like, you buy it. And then they added all this tax. They didn't include that in the hot. Then it's an extra like 5k for that as well.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, no.

Speaker A: But, uh, yeah, it was kind of. I see as my first like investing in myself. But it's great. It's a great domain name. And um, anyway, I don't know what we're talking about that how to sell

Speaker B: high ticket to B2B.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So, well, with the kind of. With the business owners and stuff, I think it's just the same as normal High Ticket with some of my clients. On the other side, it's people like Red Bull Meta. We're doing a lot of their YouTube channels now. But to close them, they're not gonna find you on YouTube and book a link through a calendar call or like, uh, l' Oreal's another one. Or Gymshark as well. We got them recently, which is awesome. But none of that happens through the normal info funnel. That was a very different learning curve for me, which was like, oh, no, these people, you've got to go meet them in person. You've got to get Red Bull. I flew to Austria to pitch to them with five other people who also helped me on my team to like run these different channels and stuff. And we'd make like a 40 page, you know, slide deck and go to their big auditorium and answer questions. Because the budgets for those kind of, you know, videos and whatnot are astronomical. And they're not just gonna. They're not gonna like, uh, yeah, oh, let's go on your candidly call book at a time. The CMO of Red Bull's my. Yeah, man.

Speaker B: The setter calls them before it qualifies them.

Speaker A: Can you sit in a quiet room

Speaker B: when you do not show you're available yet? None of that.

Speaker A: So the big guys, that was a very, very different learning curve and I just guess it's more like normal business. LinkedIn is fantastic for that. Um, I just to get your opinion on this, because one thing that I've realized recently is depending on who you are and depending on what your goal is and who you're trying to attract to your business as a client, I think different social media platforms are better. So I used. Cause I teach YouTube, I used to always be like, no, YouTube's the best YouTube's the best. And I still think YouTube's for a lot of things, But I think if you want to reach other coaches, actually, Instagram's better because coaches tend to hang out on Instagram, and it's something I completely neglected for a long time. I think if you want to reach creators, at least in the YouTube world, oh, YouTube's fantastic. Obviously, there's crossover. And then if you want to reach the big B2B guys, it's LinkedIn and Twitter. God knows what goes on there, but, uh, I'd love to get you up in your map.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's exactly that. It's like Instagram is everybody's personal business card, slash outreach method. And it's. It's really crazy because youe don't even need to have a lot of followers on Instagram. As long as you have, as long as you're known somewhere, people will find your Instagram and DM you there. Yeah, I've noticed assume so many times. You've probably had us to where a bunch of people want to become your clients. They know your YouTube stuff, then they find you on Instagram and then the DM you. And I've seen huge people, like, people with millions of followers that would still respond to their own DMs. And funny enough, they get, you know, hundreds of DMs every day, but they still check the requests and just go on the profiles like, oh, yeah, that guy I respond to. And funny. On a side note, um, sometimes if someone's watching this right now, they're like, nobody ever responds to me. Like, sometimes when somebody doesn't respond to me, it happened two, three times so far. I just let my beautiful fiance message them within five minutes. It's so funny. Like, I would follow up as a

Speaker A: tactic and a contract. Exactly.

Speaker B: I would like DM them, like, four weeks in a row, never. And then my VR, like, hey, you know what? You message them. And she's just like, hi. And five minutes later, they're like, hey, there. And I'm like, okay, now go pitch to my podcast. And then they hop on. Podcast also is huge.

Speaker A: FYI is small.

Speaker B: It's so funny. Like, I'm just the only reason why I have the podcast people like, what's your monetization on the podcast? I'm like, what? I just want to talk to cool people. Because if you would, for example, invite some, like, hey, can I pick your brain for freaking 2 hours and invite you for lunch, they're like, dude, I don't have time. But if you say, hey, Can I promote your stuff on my podcast or

Speaker A: even just ask you how you did it exactly? People love to speak about themselves.

Speaker B: Uh, exactly.

Speaker A: Uh, someone told me exactly this the other day and they were like, yeah, they wanted to get into, I think it was that they wanted to get into less of the social media space. And like, they knew nothing about social media, so they said, ah, I could just like DM people and probably they'll, you know, charge for consultation, but. Or I could be like, oh, I've got a zoom podcast. I'm just starting. I'd love to interview you. I think you've got such an interesting backstory and these people, like, leap at the chance and they go, so if you were just starting out on social media, like, what would be your first steps if you're in my situation specifically?

Speaker B: And then just give it for the readers, for the followers.

Speaker A: So people are brand new to social media, what would you do?

Speaker B: I've had a guy once fake a podcast. I didn't know. I realized later he faked a podcast. He's like, oh, can I have you on my podcast? I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. And it was a one hour zoom and he asked me very specific questions about his situation. And I'm like, yeah, whatever. And then, and then because I didn't look up the part, I just said yes. And then later I like, tried to look up his podcast. That was none.

Speaker A: That's so funny.

Speaker B: And I'm like, you sneaky mofo.

Speaker A: Because you know what, I respect that. From the bloke. Exactly. Got it.

Speaker B: And I'm like, okay, well, you know, otherwise I would have charged him for that because it was a podcast. Um, but yeah, so what I wanted to ask you is Red Bull, obviously. That's insane. Walk me through the inception of the idea all the way down to the close. How long did it take you and what were the steps to take with

Speaker A: a company like that? Um, it's so interesting because there's no path, I think with info there's like run this many ads, get this kind of conversion rate, get a good closer, and then you will get like X amount of money. And then if something's wrong, you just kind of tweak the funnel. With any of the massive B2B brands, there is no funnel. It's like 50, 50% luck. You've got to make your own luck, obviously, but like 50% luck. 50% in person networking. For me, I've started really pumping LinkedIn recently and that's been really good. So with regards to Red Bull. It was, um, 10 years experience doing YouTube and building different brands and working with people sharing that experience on LinkedIn. Then, um, I'll tell you exactly what I did. Uh, I then was like, okay, I really want to get them as a client. I for free, audited their entire channel and just sent every person at Red Bull that I connected with. The audit. The audit, the audit. Got nothing back. I literally like ripped apart their channel for like 25 minutes. And I was actually might not be a good approach because everyone in charge of the channel and I'm saying, this is shit.

Speaker B: This is shit.

Speaker A: So, nothing. Um, I then found all of their emails and I said emailing them nothing. And then what I started doing was I just started posting really good, high quality content and also tagging them. And then because I've got like, YouTube Premium. Uh, YouTube Premium. I've got a LinkedIn Premium. I could see that. Oh, some people started looking at my, you know, my page and you can sort of see who's looking at your profile.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And then from there I would send really personalized DMs where I would be like, oh, just, you know, I take a video that they've done recently, redesign their entire thumbnail for free, and then send it to them. And it's like, the thing is all this stuff, it's like, it's so much upfront work because I think. And it is different in the info space. But the thing that pisses me off the most is when someone like sends me a message, be like, hey, man, like long hyphen. Because, you know, it's ChatGPT. Love your content, by the way. And then it was always even worse when they pretend it's specific. Like, I see you've got a million subscribers on YouTube and there's like, clearly something has just crawled my YouTube channel.

Speaker B: Insert random info that is easy to find.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly that. And it actually infuriates me because I'm just like, that's not how you do it. Whereas my approach. And honestly, like, nine times out of ten, this completely fails. Um, but the one time that it does work, you can land a major client. Dua Lipa I got doing their channel and this is literally how we met.

Speaker B: Man, I have such a crush on her. I never knew who the hell she was.

Speaker A: You listened to her songs then?

Speaker B: No, I saw her pop up of my YouTube shorts. I'm like, wow, she's so. I love her eyebrows. And I'm like, who's. I know. No song of her. Nothing. I just real love the Way she looks. So that's her later, then. Thank you very much.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's more her brand. She's got. She's got a particular brand. It's not her actual thing. M. But it's like, it's her, basically. It's her company.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but that was through LinkedIn as well. It was through seeing their content. I went on their YouTube channels. I was like, okay, this could be improved. This could be improved. Spent two hours redoing everything and just sending it to everyone in their team,

Speaker B: and nobody's willing to do that.

Speaker A: That's what. And also, like, I've got one and a half million subscribers on my, you know, my main channels. I get editors approaching me daily saying, hey, man, can I edit your video? Here's my portfolio. I'm not gonna check that. The only times I've ever responded to an editor is when they take one of my videos. They edit it and be like, hey, man, I've just edited one of your videos. And one of the two I actually hired because they do the work up front. And I go, you know what? That's kind of cool. And as you said earlier, like, people with big followings, like, dude, I check my emails. If you email me directly, I'll probably see it. Yeah, I check my Instagram dms. It's like, it's. All the people do see it. So I think there is. This is something that's, like, recently really kind of hit me hard, which is to get. If you set yourself a goal of, like, connecting with a certain person or like, um, working with a certain person, and it seems impossible. It isn't. You just have to put in, like, an ungodly amount of work that most people wouldn't think is reasonable to reach that individual. And a lot of the time, at least in my own experience, this is me beforehand, I would send, like, one email and be like, oh, Red Bull. Didn't respond. Ah, doesn't work. Yeah, doesn't work. Or some really generic, hey, I can grow your YouTube channel. People, like, get that stuff all the time. But when you humanize it, when you remove all the AI bullshit and you actually make an email, like, a lot of these people, like, um, the Financial Times is another one we're sort of in talks with right now to potentially work with. I found the woman's documentary that. Who's in charge of the YouTube because she was a documentary maker. Watch the whole bloody thing. Yeah, watch the whole thing. And then I sent her my opening line on the sort of DM for the Personalized thumbnail was watch this documentary you made in South Africa. Oh, by the way, I was in South Africa recently, like, and it was a whole thing about what she did go back to me straight away, you know, and that's like. That's, like, the level of personalization that needs to go in when you're trying to reach these people. Because at the end of the day, you're just trying to talk to humans.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, um.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's no shortcut, and nobody's willing to do it. That's the funniest. That's the funniest part. When I. A, uh, lot of people ask me how I got into real social dynamics to become one of their dating coaches. They had seven dating coaches in the world as my first business back in the days that seven dating coaches traveling the world shooting content. They were basically rock stars. That was like, back in 2000. 12, 13.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know how I did it? I was like, I went to one of the paid events of, uh, one of the biggest instructors back then, Julian. And, uh, I think I've seen him

Speaker A: pop up on Instagram a lot.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, probably, yeah. Julian. Julian himself. Or Julian Blanc. Yeah, dude. His content is awesome.

Speaker A: His concert is incredible.

Speaker B: He does only clipping. It's all just from his life talks. And then his team cuts it out.

Speaker A: Like Tony Robbins, kind of.

Speaker B: Exactly. Oh, he was also on. On Saturday Night Live. I wasn't so good. And he's leaning into it. So they re. You know, they. They, uh. Uh, they. They dressed someone up like him and then, like, fake the seminar. It was so freaking funny.

Speaker A: That's funny.

Speaker B: But of course, that helped him blow up even more. Anyways, so I went to one of his events back then. It must have been 2012 or something like that. Paid $300. And I had my train. It was in Munich, and I'm from Vienna. I had my train booked for that night, and I was a broke student. And then the end of that, they said, hey, guys, uh, we're gonna have the opportunity to hang out with Julian for half an hour. If you leave us a testimonial. Like, all you have to do is talk to the camera how you like the event. And I'm like, damn it. I'd have to reschedule my train. I'd have to find a place to sleep overnight. And my friend back then, he was a professional poker player. He's like, you can stay in my place, um, and just, uh, rebook your train. Who cares? So I did that. I did the Testimonial I had 30 minutes at dinner with like a bunch of other people and Julian. And on that dinner I asked him, julian, how can I become an instructor? And, um, later on they told me that, you know, in every single city there's like a hundred guys that ask him the same thing. Like over the years there's tens of thousands of guys. And he just gave me the same copy paste answer that he would give anybody. And it's like, just be involved with the company, give a lot of value, do some free work, get on their radar and then maybe you'll get it. And I'm like, okay. I'm like writing it down. I'm like, okay, get pre value. Da, da, da. And I literally took, I think four or five unpaid positions for that company. Everything they would post, they had like this little job board. And then they were like, we need someone to manage our Tumblr account. And I'm like, I'll do it. First thing I did was Google, what the hell is Tumblr? Then I read like some Gary Vee books and how to post on Tumblr, how to post on Twitter. I think I was for a moderator Tumblr account. Um, I was doing video editing, I was doing assistantships, and I would do the Twitter account. So do all these things entirely for free and just give, give, give, give, give value. It was literally full time for me to just work on all those freaking things. And then at some point, I'll never forget their, like, age. Our hiring person, he hit me up and he's like, hey, what are you doing, like, next, next week? And I'm like, oh, I'm studying in Vienna. He's like, okay, co, come to Miami. Come to Miami to do what? To, you know, to help out, to work as an unpaid assistant. And, uh, you have to pay your own flights. Um, you have to pay your own food. We cannot pay you. And don't worry though, because you can sleep on the couch. Which also was a lie. The couch was already occupied. I had to sleep on the floor, but I didn't care. So I. And I'm like, okay, when do you want me to do that? And then they're like, can you come tomorrow? And I'm like, uh, no, but give me two weeks just to quit my job, quit university, ask my mom and dad for money, ask my best friends for money and borrow money from the bank because I needed the money because they said it's going to be six months unpaid. So I'm like, okay, quit university, quit my job, ask for money at 60.

Speaker A: You quit your job?

Speaker B: Yeah. Quit everything. I quit everything because I was like, 22 years old, 21 years old. And I'm like, I'm not gonna bitch out on that because it was, like, the worst timing. I had all my friends in Vienna. I was just starting do my own coaching business. I started making my first 2,000, $3,000 a month. I had beautiful girlfriends, like, and my whole life was amazing. It was literally the worst time. Exams were coming up for university and all that. And I'm like, I will lie on my deathbed at 80 years old. And I would hate myself thinking, what if? What if I had said yes to that once in a lifetime opportunity? So I gave myself permission to fail. I said, hey, I'll be $16,000 in debt because I had to. Had to borrow all this money for a flight. Um, if it doesn't work and I fail, at least I can look myself in the mirror because I don't have to ask myself, what if? And if I don't fail, then I literally reach my dream. So let's fucking do it. So two weeks later, I was on that flight, and, um, I almost got fired. I think in the first week, they had, like, a really stern talk with me. And then from there on, I just became the best fucking assistant that company had ever seen. And it was funny because it's. Again, to get back to. To this, nobody's willing to do it because they all come in, they're like, I want to be the instructor. I want to be the coach who makes all the money and does all the cool coaching. But that's not the reality. The reality was like, you're gonna be a bumfuck assistant for the next six months. You're gonna pick up my food, you're gonna do my laundry, you're gonna talk to my, uh, to my clients. You're gonna book my travels. You're just gonna be my bitch and do all the work. And I'm like, that's not what I want to do. I want to be the coach. But I'll do it. If that's. That's what I have to do, I'll fucking do it. So I did it for six months. I became the best freaking assistant this company had ever seen. That was my personal commitment I made myself. And then at some point, they're like, hey, Max, like, what are you doing in the next month? And I'm like, oh, still working for you guys. And they're like, okay, you're gonna fly to Canada. You're Gonna meet Julian there, you're gonna assist and be on tour with him. And I was 22 years old, I'm like on tour. Like, I get to get paid to travel. Because now my upgrade was they would pay my full. I would still not get paid, but at least they would pay my flights. And I would like share my hotel room with Julian. And I remember I flew to Montreal, I got the address for the Airbnb. I knock on the door, Julian opens the door and he's like, you, what the fuck are you doing here? And I'm like, well, remember how I asked you what to do?

Speaker A: I did it.

Speaker B: And he's like, you're the first guy who did it. Like, nobody actually. Like, we actually just gave you the copy paste answer. You actually went and did it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Holy shit. Come in. And you know, other after, uh, that I just worked my ass off and eventually became an instructor, then made my first million together with that company, with that offer, became the fastest growing best paid dating coach in the world. And that was it. And then from there, then kind of like you, I used that as a proof. Hey, I built my coaching brand from scratch. I went through hell and I did it and I made my first million with it. And then I think towards the end, I made 3 to 5 million a year with that. Do you also want to build a coaching business? I can show you how. So, uh, I use that as proof.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And the beauty is again, nobody's willing to fucking do it.

Speaker A: I think what you said there is more valuable often than like, the actual tactics of like, oh, do this on Instagram. That is like, it's just that bigger, uh, mindset belief of like, to achieve the thing you always want to achieve, you've got to be willing to do what no one else is willing to do. And it sounds cliche, but, uh, it's true. Because if it was easy, everyone would do it. If, like setting up a business and making your first million or whatever, like, you can't also do that in my head without credibility. I think, um, go back to Will Brown. Like, one of the reasons he's successful is because he sold his company for 16 million. One of the reasons why I can work with these big brands and stuff is because I spent 10 years building my YouTube channel up to one and a half million subscribers. So I also think that this other aspect, especially in the AI age, where what used to happen was you could definitely get away with not being very good at something or having no credibility and printing money because information was the gap so if you knew something that someone else didn't, you could basically make a YouTube channel, make an Instagram account, talk about that thing, and then sell a coaching program because you knew something that other people didn't. Information was scarce, but now with AI, information is absolutely everywhere. And if you want to learn how to set up an, uh, online business, if you want to learn even how to probably date someone, you can literally ask AI and it'll probably give you a pretty bloody good response. So information is no longer the thing that people pay for. And now what people pay for, in my opinion, is lived experience. M so I think the information economy is absolutely, uh, like collapsing. And people who are just trying to half our stuff, they're not going to be able to make it. But those people with experience, they are the ones who are going to make it. So if we go back to Will, for example, um, you could ask AI exactly how to set up an online coaching business and it will actually give you a pretty bloody good response. Set up this funnel, run these ads, hit these numbers, blah, blah, blah. But what AI will never give you is the lived experience of having actually done it. What AI will never give you is the lived experience of being a dating coach who's actually gone into the field and the feeling of pressure and anxiety of approaching your first woman. And people will actually pay for that because information tells you what you could do, experience tells you what you should do. And experience is the thing that, like, I think people are starving for these days. And so I think there's a massive opportunity in any online sort of platform if you are an expert at what you do, if you're actually genuinely good at the thing, then I think you're so much more likely now to succeed more than ever because AI is just removing all the kind of like semi good people at stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's only the creme de la creme. The top, top, top people who like, will be really actually successful, uh, in this space. Again, it doesn't mean it's the best in the world. It does. What? Kind of go back to what I said earlier about magic. But like, you've got to commit, you've actually got to put in the work. You've actually got to have some results. And I think that's a really good thing for the coaching, like the info space, because the number of people who set up like a coaching offer, uh, with like, just no results or whatever, and you just can't, you know, like now, you can't really fake that it's a Lot harder to fake when AI can do 90% of the work. But if you can sit down. But yeah, you know what? I built a coaching, uh, business to 1 million. And it took me five years to do it. And then my next one took two months to hit the million mark. That's just proof. Mhm. And people, people are dying for like they're starving, starving for wisdom, they're starving for proof and they're starving for credibility. And I think that is like, for me at least, that's the huge opportunity for business owners going forward.

Speaker B: I think they're also starving for that authenticity. I'd be super curious to hear your take on YouTube on that. We see it on Instagram, we call it the Mr. Beastification. I'm sure you're familiar with that term. So Instagram specifically, it started as just, you know, just photos. Then finally they had the reels function. So all of a sudden people would start making these yap videos, meaning they were just talking to the camera, maybe subtitles, maybe a quick headline on it. And then I would say like the last 2, 3 ish years, this whole rise of like the editors, you know, where everybody reaches out to you. I can make your videos look super good and animations and flashing on screen and the words come in flying and all that everywhere. Exactly. I can make your videos look like this guy or that guy. And then, and then people started over editing and it became this like race for like who has the fastest dopamine hit editing, etc, and now we see the re rise of that yap format. You see creators like Shelby Sapp, who, you know her, the sales coach girl. She's literally just in her freaking car, camera on her. Yeah. And she just talks to the camera, no fancy editing, nothing. Because people are sick and tired of these fucking fake looking edits because they want that authenticity again because of AI having flooded all the these videos, making him look all the same. They're all overly polished. Is that, uh, do you see the same type of trend on YouTube as well?

Speaker A: 100% YouTube, I think, slightly further ahead. So it was, there was the Mr. Beastification, which was maybe three years ago. Then it went into the Raw. So that was like the Raw format, which like Sam suck. That was Will Brown, you could argue that was, um, Charlie Morgan, if you know him, you know, just sitting down, just having a chat with the camera. Oh, look at me, I make millions of dollars. This is the conversation. The trend on YouTube recently, weirdly, has been going back to cinematic, but not Mr. Beastification, as it were. So not like a cut every three seconds, but a good quality camera, for example, um, gentle graphics, not overstimulation, but at the same time. M It's just starting that the curve has sort of happened. You mentioned earlier why Will was getting less views. He was getting, it was like a year ago when this was at its actual peak. M the raw content. And that's like one of the reasons you get so many views. And then since then, basically everybody starts doing it. Because on YouTube, I even made videos about this. Oh, the new style taken over YouTube, the new editing style, the new video style. Everybody starts making raw content and when everybody, you know, goes left, new people start going right. And then that's like the new thing now is like, oh, if everyone is doing that, what hasn't happened in a while is this kind of like, it's kind of a mixture between like raw but slightly higher quality, if that makes sense. And we seem to be moving in that direction. But again, yeah, I think I'm very opinionated on this stuff. I think authenticity and the humanization of the person behind the camera is so, so important. You, um, said this earlier. The only reason what people buy from you is because they trust you. And trust is spelled is trust is built when people spend time with you. And people only spend time with you because they like you. The hardest metric I think to quantify on YouTube, Instagram, whatever social media platform you're talking about is the vibe you give off. So there's all these people who, like, they'll spend hours doing everything right, getting the best team, this, this, this. But you know what, you watch their video, you just don't like the bloke. And it's like they haven't then worked on the camera presence because it's, it's a skill, as we said at the very beginning of this conversation. And there is something to be said for, for having a good vibe on camera. And if you get that vibe through being authentic or if you get that vibe of having a script and loads of editing, in my opinion, it doesn't matter so much so long as people watch your content and want to spend more time with you and enjoy it. But I think for most people, especially business owners who are busy, they've got kids, they've got a family, the idea of also then editing a video and having 100 different scene cuts is very, very unlikely. So I think for most people the raw, authentic style is also beneficial to them. M because YouTube's not their full time job. Right? If everyone had all missed, if everybody had all the time in the world. We could all become maybe like MrBeast, but most people just don't have that time frame. So I think if I were to summarize it, I think when I work with business owners and they ask me these kind of questions, I always say, you've obviously just got to be you. You've got to really humanize yourself and follow a content strategy of maybe some more broad, like virally videos that we talked about earlier, then some middle of the funnel content, then some bottom of the funnel content. Middle and bottom of funnel really meant to humanize you. Top of the funnel can be more scripted, more Mr. Beastie, because the design, the goal of that is to get views based on YouTube. But then it's all about kind of like just coming across like a nice person that people like and whatever way in which you do that, like, doesn't really matter.

Speaker B: M How do you apply that, what you just said, to a faceless brand like Red Bull?

Speaker A: M With them, it's a very, very different game because, I mean, these guys with them, it's all about the idea. So there's a huge difference between a brand YouTube channel and a guy trying to sell a course with drop shipping, if that makes sense. So with a company like Red Bull, what they're trying to do is they're trying to do something that's never been done before. Every video we start with, we sit down and we go, okay, cool. What is the craziest idea that we could potentially get a Guinness world Record for? Okay, who's, uh, who's the best F1 driver in the world? Okay, it's this person. Can we get them in a video and make them do something like, unbelievable. And we come up with hundreds of ideas.

Speaker B: Sounds like so much fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then the legal team goes, no, no, no, no. And then the accountants come in, like, too expensive, too expensive. And then we get whittled down to one or two ideas that we can potentially do and then we just make it happen. So it's a very different game. They're not trying to sell anything. Red Bull's not trying to sell a Red Bull can in the comments section.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: All they care about is market share and then mind share, which is how often you think about the brand. Uh, whereas obviously, you know, core sellers and info sellers, they just, you know, they're trying to get sales that they care more about the viewer, not the number of views. Whereas Red Bull cares less about the viewer, uh, and more about the number of views, because they just want to be seen by everyone.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Top of mind.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's a very different game. We just like Max. We basically, business owners maximize for revenue, whereas a company like Red Bull maximizes for views. That's the big difference.

Speaker B: I've seen that one video the other day from. Because I love what you said there. Because that's exactly what I think of when I think Red Bull. I'm like, these guys have the craziest ideas. This one video, maybe that's even one of your ideas. Where this motocross guy was. They built a ramp into a truck and then he backed. The truck was driving. Yeah. And he was back flipping from that over. It was on the highway or something. And he back flipped out of the. Out of the truck into, I think, another truck and landed there. Or into the same truck while driving or some crazy. And I'm like. And the guy, he had a GoPro, of course, as well. He almost didn't hit the truck and would have just missed it. And, you know, probably, um.

Speaker A: What do you.

Speaker B: Can you say, hey, x YouTube video. That was my idea. Are you allowed to say that?

Speaker A: So everything I do is mainly on the NDA. But, uh, that wasn't one of my ideas. They've got a lot of people. Red Bull, there's not just like one, there's a lot. They've got internal teams. They've got whole YouTube internal teams. I'm external. My company, Owen Creative, we come in and do a lot of the strategy, and then production partners actually go and film it as well, because they don't have in house, let's say, people to film certain things. So we just kind of do the A to Z, like when they need more videos, more ideas and stuff. Um, but yeah, it's more. It's just when it comes down to these videos, it's like they're thinking in multiples of millions. So they're going like, okay, what can we do to make a video that gets a million views? So to get and make a video that gets a million views, you need to have an idea that a million people or more will be interested in. So that's where we start. So what we actually do is we go on other videos on YouTube and we see what's already working super well. So often, for example, on Red Bull, you might notice they do like F1 car versus world's fastest drone or they do something crazy like that. What you'll notice is other channels will do like F1 car versus Bugatti, and that will have like 30 million views. So they're just replacing the Bugatti with something else. It's not a copy, but it's literally the same thumbnail style. It's the same story arc, it's the same everything. Because if they're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a video and they wanted to get millions of views, they want to back that up with data.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So when we go in, it's not just like, oh, this would be a cool idea. We, like, really look at what's already worked on YouTube. How can we extract the viral elements? How can you make it uniquely Red Bull? How can we really make it feel like the company? And then how do we actually make it happen? And then there's loads of technical stuff that goes into it, legal stuff that I'm not involved in, thank God. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's crews of 40, 50 people working on these videos. Uh, crazy. So, yes, it's a different game altogether.

Speaker B: I'm assuming there's like subdivisions of like motorsport. Ski, snowboard, freestyle skateboard.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally so many. And then the future, in my head, this is quite a big statement actually. But the future of media, I think, will be YouTube. So for the first time, the BBC is the biggest broadcast agency in the world. And for the first time ever, they're going YouTube first. So they're commissioning content now that is only designed for YouTube. And this is the biggest broadcasting, um, company ever, pretty much, uh, FIFA just announced the other day that they're doing, uh, the YouTube is streaming the first ten minutes of every single game in the World cup on YouTube. The Oscars was hosted on YouTube recently. That's literally a show designed to celebrate cinema on YouTube. YouTube is the second biggest search engine in the world after Google, and Google owns YouTube. It comes pre downloaded on every single, uh, smart TV. It's on every single Android phone already pre downloaded and, you know, over 5 billion searches a day go onto YouTube as well. Um, so it's one of those things where it's like YouTube is absolutely everywhere and traditional TV is massively dying. In fact, YouTube just overtook Netflix to become the number one streaming platform in the world as well. So in my head, the future of media consumption, I'm not just talking about like funny cat videos, like where people go to get news, where people go to listen to their favorite artists, where people go to watch their favorite creators and celebrities, where people go to, you know, watch TV, quite literally is YouTube. And I think in the future as well, sport is going to be on YouTube as well. Massively we're already seeing that with, with FIFA. And I think the way in which people consume content is really shifting that way. And the big change that brands are having is they're starting to realize this. They're starting to realize that no one picks up GQ magazine and goes, oh yeah, I need a new Volvo. What people do is they go, the people are going to be buying Volvo cars in 10 years time. Where are they? They're not buying these magazines, they're not looking at big billboards. They're on YouTube watching content. M And what they used to do is, when they still do now, is they run ads on YouTube. They've been doing that for ages. But what they're now just starting to realize is they're going, oh, we're spending, you know, $5 million a month. Rolex is spending $5 million a month on ads on YouTube, which is nuts. What if they took a fraction of that and just made a really good YouTube channel? Then what if they built out a team and what if they actually made really beautiful content and instead of buying an audience, they built an audience. And I really genuinely believe that the future of brands and marketing is creating organic content on all platforms. But YouTube is the hub because YouTube is the, is the fastest way to build, I would say, the deepest connection with your potential audience. Not the best in every single scenario. So what coaches earlier, I think Instagram is better for coaches and stuff, But I think YouTube is one of the fastest ways to build that level of trust very quickly and develop like a really deep audience. And I would bet my bottom dollar that like, yeah, in five years time, every single major brand will have a dedicated YouTube team and channel.

Speaker B: They'll have to. I noticed this. I know it's exactly the same. Um, just to touch on Instagram as well. So I think short form videos, Instagram, TikTok. I think the learning curve is less intimidating because instead of making a 15 minute video, you make a 15, 15 second video. Meaning also your. The rate by which you get feedback, the feedback loop is much, much faster. So you know immediately, very quickly, if a video tanked or not, especially when you're just getting started. But I do agree that YouTube is gonna have the best impact per viewer ratio, so to speak. Um, also because YouTube is not like a feed that you. That just gets cured. I mean it gets curated, the homepage does get curated. But uh, if I go on Instagram, I have one video on my homepage and I scroll and it's just telling. It's just deciding for Me what I'm gonna see or not. With YouTube there, you still have the actual choice of the user, right? Like, oh, I want to watch Oscar's video now, so I'm gonna go on that. Oh, I want to watch Joe Rogan, so I'm gonna type that in. So the more decision making from the user is in there, the more impact you'll have per video. Um, but I agree, like, that you can see it too, with all these big and bigger companies. They're all scrambling because they're like, they're all. You have to look inside to these companies to really understand what's going on. They're all old, they're all CEOs that are 65, 75 years old. They're like, social media. My grandkids do that. I don't understand that. Like, I want to go talk to the TV people. And now they're noticing more and more. They're like, oh, no, hold on a second. Like, traditional media is dying. Like, we should. We need to invest into this. And then they go to younger folks like you, and I mean, quote, unquote, younger. I'm 35 now, but I'm like, they go to those people because they have no freaking clue on how any of that works. Yeah, and that's the beauty of it. And you can see, I mean, you can. I can even see it with coaches in the creator economy. It used to be a single person, just like one person editing their own videos. PewDiePie, one of the biggest YouTubers ever, he used to edit his own videos for, like, years, and now he just has a single video editor. Um, and nowadays you can see a lot of coaches just have entire media teams with, like, five, six, seven, ten editors, a creative director, an idea person, a copywriter, a thumbnail person. You have entire media teams. And, um, you spend 30, 50k a month just on the media team, just to churn out content on Instagram, on YouTube, on LinkedIn, repurpose. Make sure the idea from that gets repurposed to work over there. Make sure we're clipping over here. We're recreating videos that have gone well in long form and, uh, creating it natively for short form. It's crazy.

Speaker A: It is literally a personal media company. Yeah, that's what it is. Exactly. And you can scale it up and down as much as you want, but there's no other way to look at it. If you're making your own videos, editing, filming, scripting everything yourself, then you've got basically a hobby, because it's very Hard to do that sustainably long term. But as soon as you bring other people in. Yeah, you're literally building out your own media company.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's, it's, it's genuinely a cultural shift in where attention is going. Mhm. And right now the social media platforms own attention and attention that used to be on the tv, it used to be on billboards, it used to be on ads and now it's social media companies, mostly YouTube, but uh, Instagram, TikTok as well, like on Facebook and Rumble and all these other ones, like they, they're winning attention and brands go where the attention is, but they're just very slow at it. And as you said, it's like you get these people in these companies who, they don't understand it, they don't know what's going on. They don't understand, uh, you know, how long it takes to actually do all this stuff. And it's uh, it's a shift, but I think it is, it is moving very quickly. And I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, in the future, um, most sport is streamed on YouTube. I mean, I'm not like oblivious to the fact that in five years time YouTube might die out and something else might take over like we had with TikTok. Like, I'm not saying YouTube's gonna be this thing forever and ever and ever. Um, but at least in the next five to 10 years, I can't see it kind of being moved aside by anything else. I don't think either.

Speaker B: I, um, think the medium is gonna change. Maybe we'll go to VR or something like that, or to gl. But like these big, and also these big companies are born out of fast paced innovation and disruption. So unless they become complacent, which I don't think because it's so much more intricate in their DNA to innovate, to continuously innovate and to continuously disrupt. I think they're just gonna keep being at the top for a very, very long time because it's such a cultural thing. These, the people at YouTube are younger. They're born out of innovation. They're. The entire company was born out of this disruption. So unless you become complacent, um, I don't think it's gonna happen. And um, they're betting on a lot of different things. You can see it with meta having spent crazy amounts of money, what was it, 65 billion on the metaverse didn't work out. But it's at least proof that they're still willing to blow a Ton of money on the innovation. And it's funny whenever. Also, on a random side note, it's so funny whenever, you know, larger consulting or coaching firms come, um, into the game that, oh, we're running ass like we were paid ads. Why would we need organic? Like paid ads work well, well, well, guess what? You have just a simple Instagram profile funnel. If you're a creator or a coach or consultant and you're spending 5, 10, $30,000 on ads per month or per week, you can get a way better show rate, you can get a way warmer leads, higher closing rate, better sales staff, better everything. If you have have a simple Instagram profile where you're posting once a day, you're posting a reel like I said, you can recycle it from your content that you already bought, um, uh, that you already creating for long form. You can recycle it from your coaching calls. Just a simple Instagram profile funnel can increase your show rate, can increase your close rate, can get you way better staff, way better deals, and yet maybe gets you some organic leads for free as well. But that's not even the goal. If you're running ads, you can be make your ads work so much better already just by freaking putting on some organic. It doesn't even need to be best organic. You don't even need to grow or buy or by any means go viral. Just the fact that you have organic content. Because people are not stupid. They see your ads, they will look you up after they book a call, they will check out your content, they will try to type in your name in the YouTube, and if there's like a single video on there with three views, it, it's gonna look bad. But if there's a couple videos with decent views that are also addressing their pain points, maybe show some testimonials or very least show you at work with your clients. That's already gonna increase every single metric across the bank.

Speaker A: Yeah, people always ask me, I'm m anti ads. Like, no, I use ads. I think ads are great, but it's just like it's. I think ads are like fuel to the fire as opposed to, I mean, for me personally, I know people disagree with this, but I always think it's better to start organic, Figure out your organization that way, learn content and then

Speaker B: do ads because you have to fail for free too.

Speaker A: Exactly. Ah, I know it can be done the other way around. And if you've got money to play with, there's also an argument like, oh, no, if you've got, you know, Half a million in the bank. Like yeah, just run some ads to it. You can figure out very quickly what works and what doesn't. So I get that side of it as well. But it's one of the, I mean even the big companies, one of the reasons they want views is because the views basically mean they can retarget all of those people. That's, that's one of the big plays that they want. They say hey, we want a million views on this video so that we can then run ads to those people so that they just see it also as part of a funnel. Which is really interesting. Um, something I wasn't aware of for a little while but that's one of the reasons why they want to basically do that. But even the ads they're trying to run aren't like sell stuff. It's like to get them on their email list or just they've got these like mega long term plays. Um, but yeah, I think ads are, I think ads are great. I think, think the last time as well, like I've never, I've never, I don't think I've ever clicked on that and bought something. But uh, like I can't remember the last time I actually did that. But I can remember like watching like for example, I remember watching like an Alex Hormozy video and then I'll see his ad and I'll just watch the whole ad because it's Alex Hormozy. I'm like oh, it's quite interesting. Let's see.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then I know about like oh, his big webinar that he's doing and then I'll go and sign up for it like it has, I've been like done by ads but it's always because I saw the person on organic first.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Fell in love with their content, really trusted them, liked them and then the ad, I'm just like oh yeah, it's ah, just this person again pushes you

Speaker B: over the edge 100%.

Speaker A: But it was like a cold. And also I think as well from a closing perspective, right is if you have um, if you're just running ads the person has no idea who you are. There's no trust built. So you do then need to have like you know, 50 billion testimonials on your page. It needs to be way like, like harder copy uh, deadline funnels and all this stuff which for me like I'm actually kind of, I'm not anti it but like I, I don't like super bloody hard sells. If someone wants to Work with m. Me. I want them to want to work with me. Whereas when I get sales calls from YouTube, it's like they've. It's like they've seen 20 hours of my content. They're like, half the time if I'm doing the sales call myself, sometimes I still do. They can't even believe I'm on the call. They're like, oh, I didn't realize you'll be there.

Speaker B: That's the guy.

Speaker A: Uh, and the. The selling. I always tell people, on YouTube, at least the selling is done in the YouTube videos themselves. People make that decision going, damn, this guy's so good. His free content is so good. I wonder what his paid stuff's like. Yeah, I wonder if he could actually help me go on this journey to reach this particular goal because he understands my problems better than I can articulate them myself. And the sales call is just a formality. Like, it's just like, oh, yeah, of course we've got to do this thing to find out the price and if they can actually afford it and whatnot. So. But the selling happens on YouTube. I always say YouTube isn't like, separate from your business. YouTube is part of your business and YouTube is part of the whole sales process. And I think that also, that kind of mentality applies to this understanding of consistency when doing social media. I don't know if you've had this with people you work with on Instagram, but definitely on YouTube, people go like, you know, they're really excited for the first week, second week, a little bit less excited, third week, nothing's happened and they're like, oh, nothing, Nothing's happened. And they just die out and momentum goes. And I always tell people, like, YouTube or any form of social media, I guess, is in the same way, you would never miss a sales call, you'd never miss a client meeting. You don't miss every Saturday having that content morning where you go and film all your content. You've got to treat it as the same level of respect because at the end of the day, it's one of the most important parts of the whole ecosystem. And it's not easy. As we've talked about already on the. But that's like, that's the point. That's why. That's why content is hard, but that's why you get the results, because you're speaking to people. And if you just churn out generic stuff, then people don't resonate with that and they don't like it. So, yeah, you've got to be Good. And you know, if you're not good, then maybe you shouldn't actually be working with people. It's one of those like weird dichotomies I've got in my head. Yeah, but I only think organic can, you know, organic should be treated with respect and it should, should be treated the same level of seriousness as the rest of your business.

Speaker B: And I love that. I think it's like the common theme of our talk here is the fact that the half assers, it will not work anymore. There was a very short period of time where the half assing did work for anyone, but that time's over.

Speaker A: Like 2016, you could run Facebook ads.

Speaker B: It's so funny. Like the golden era where everybody would make super easy money. And then all those guys died out and only a couple guys at the top, guys and girls at the top, they just started taking over all that market share. And I think there's no way around organic anymore. There's no way around doing paid ads with organic because otherwise you're just sitting on a ton of ad spend. Um, there's no way around understanding at least the basic human psychology that goes into it and, or also understanding the algorithmic side of things. And I think people like you, I think like we're talking about like, oh, you work with Chanel and you work with Red Bull. I think that's just the start. I think people like you are just going to dominate so hard in the next 10 years, 15 years. I mean, think about how the knowledge that you're, that you've gathered will continue to extrapolate and stack upon each other. It's just insane. And uh, it's going to be very, very, very, very hard to compete with anybody unless you post a lot of content, you get in the trenches, you understand what the posting content looks about, and like you said, taking it first seriously, it has to be respected. If you try to trick your way into it, it ain't gonna work. You would never trick your way into the gym. You would fucking work out and eat shit until you get in better shape. And I think if you uh, if you approach this with that attitude, then uh, your life will be very beautiful. Your life will be full of business opportunities, clients coming to you, people wanting to collaborate with you, and um, I mean, even, you know, meeting better friends, meeting apparently a partner for life. You can get that. If you're taking social media seriously, you can get it without it too. But it's much more, much harder, much more difficult.

Speaker A: It's literally a digital footprint isn't it.

Speaker B: Amen to that.

Speaker A: It's who you are.

Speaker B: Exactly. How can people find you? How can people work with you?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, so Own Creative is my company. If it's. I guess if it's companies, there's own creative.com if they are more like creators. Then I've got a program, uh, called YouTube Creator Pro. So if you just look that up, um, it's the full A to Z, that's the one that all the people I work with who are sort of coaches and founders, that's the one that they normally go through. And, um, it just teaches everything to do with YouTube from step one to step 20, as it were. Love it. And, uh, yeah, Oscar earns the name. So find me on Instagram as well.

Speaker B: Boom. Thanks for being on, man. It was my pleasure, man. Let's grab some fucking steak. Let's do it. Let's feast. That was good fun.