#301 How To Sell Your Knowledge and Make Millions with William Brown

Speaker A: What is making the biggest guys in the industry? What's making them so big?

Speaker B: One would be. Today's guest is William Brown, one of the sharpest minds in the world of online business and e learning. From scaling his knowledge based company to over $16 million in sales to exiting with a life changing multi seven figure deal, William has joined the elite ranks alongside names like Alex Hermosi and Sam Ovens.

Speaker A: You used to be a very successful DJ.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I've DJed in over 45 countries. People always say real estate is really hard. It's not hard. At from the real estate portfolio, I make about 1,3k a day. If it's hard, I've never experienced it.

Speaker A: We used to teach that in the dating world all the time. Women smell every gram of desperation on the hack that we used to teach our clients. Was ChatGPT dropped and everybody was freaking out over it and I'm like, holy fuck. This just changed everything, dude.

Speaker B: Do you think copywriters will get squeezed out of the market?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: What other roles do you think are going to be removed?

Speaker A: All of them.

Speaker B: I really don't like these guys that like live in Bali and are happy with 10, 20k a month. I think like, come on, grab your balls. Same. Let's, let's go. Now that I'm at the stage where I don't really need more money, I can just around. It's not as deadly important. You know, when you're making something that has to work, it's just so stressful.

Speaker A: I've been told that you're working on something in the background, something new.

Speaker B: I can say that I'm working with two of the biggest people in this industry and we are basically building up.

Speaker A: And then they were like, um, we, we need to reinforce the veranda to be able to hit the weight.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's.

Speaker A: And they had to put like steel bars. They had to rip out all the beautiful wooden floor.

Speaker B: Made them do this.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I made them.

Speaker B: Do you know what the fucker.

Speaker A: And it ended up being $15,000.

Speaker B: Fuck me. And I'm like.

Speaker A: And at that point I'm like, whatever. I want the damn Jacuzzi. And then the day the jacuzzi arrives, I asked my assistant like, how are they going to bring up to the 20th floor? And they're like, they have a crane system. No, it was Ukraine though. A uh, Ukrainian crane. Ukrainian crane was basically three gym buff dudes with a. What is, what is the system called? Like when you, you have a rope go up, like a pulley Yeah, a pulley. It was a pulley system. And they just, by hand, just like. And it took them the entire afternoon. They like locked it at some point to have like a lunch break. And then like unlocked it again. And we have this video at home where we're like sitting on the living room table working. And behind us is a huge window. Like here you see the Jacuzzi come up like this. Um, and then I had the damn Jacuzzi. I went in there almost every day and it was, it was a dream come true. In the winter, it's snowing and you're like one of these monkeys in, in Japan that are in this hot. In these hot baths, you know? You ever see that footage of these monkeys and it's snowing on their fur, but they're chilling in these steaming hot natural baths and you're just steaming inside the Jacuzzi. I've done business deals in this Jacuzzi. I've had dates in this Jacuzzi. I've had so many, like, just evenings of like, thinking and ideation in that, uh, Jacuzzi.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then, um, it was a pain in the ass though, because it had a roof that you had to put on it so the water stays warm and the wind kept blowing off the roof, even though. Because you could clip it. You could clip it inside and it would still be blown off. And then one day it ripped off the whole clipping system and it blew it off the building and it was nowhere to be found. Like, I sent my assistant, like the blocks around to find if it was dropped on the floor and I was gone. It must have just flown away. And then, um. Yeah, and then I had it. And then the war happened. And then of course, like never went back. I. I do. I think I got rid of the place just before that, though, because I realized I spent 12 and a half K for that a month. And then, uh, after a year, I asked my assistant, hey, just out of curiosity, can you calculate the days I was in Kiev versus days of travel? Turns out I traveled 7 out of 12 months.

Speaker B: And you were paying the rent.

Speaker A: And I paid the rent. So I spent like 70 something K. Something like, ah, just not worth it.

Speaker B: Maybe that's why I don't like to leave the apartment because I feel like I paid for it, so I should use it, you know?

Speaker A: Exactly. So you're gonna move to Bali?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: For. You said you. Can I talk about that? Yeah, you said you want to move to Bali in a nice baller villa until you buy a next Baller villa here. And then you move back here.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, and then when I get the Dubai one, we'll do six months. Six months. So we'll do. When it's too hot here, which it pretty much is now. This week. No, from going on the balcony. Then we'll go to Bali, and then when it cools down here, we'll come back again.

Speaker A: What made you do. What made you choose Bali over Thailand or any other sort of place over there?

Speaker B: Uh, have you been to Thailand?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, Thailand is a really beautiful place. It's just Bali is like Thailand with entrepreneurs. I. I, uh, would say, like, Thailand's a bit too quiet, a bit too relaxing, you know? And I want. And, you know, for example, like, uh, Ibrahim was like, oh, I'm doing a mastermind in Bali. I'll be like, I'll be there, no problem. My buddy Dan. Dan Bolton is doing a mastermind. He's like, would you want to come? I'm like, no problem. I'll m. Be there. And that wouldn't happen in Thailand. M. You know. So Bali is. It's got the same chilled energy, especially where we got a villa, because we got it just outside of Perennan. So it's just. Just on its own.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Really beautiful, but equally, it's very relaxing. But you still got a bit of entrepreneur stuff going on.

Speaker A: You know, it's funny what Ibrahim told me earlier about you, which I didn't know is you used to be a very successful DJ.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is that true?

Speaker B: It is, yeah. So I've DJed in over 45 countries.

Speaker A: Holy shit. I had no idea what, uh, what style drum and bass or.

Speaker B: I started out playing drum and bass when I was very young. And then I was at a buddy's house to buy some records, and I found some dubstep records. And I was like, what's. What's this slow drum and bass? And he was like, no, no, no. It's not slow drum and bass. It's called dubstep. And this is very early, back when it was very dubby.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Step. I was like, wow, it's amazing. And then he sold me those records. Then I got into dubstep. And, um, in the end, I ended up getting signed to this quite big dubstep label ran by this DJ called Mala. And when Mala signed me, I got an agent, I got a manager pretty much straight away. Three weeks later, I was DJing in Sweden, DJing in New York, DJing in, uh, China, uh, tour in India. It's crazy, man.

Speaker A: How much does that pay at that point? Kind of low because you were probably not like a, uh, vici level or something like that. No, I mean touring. How much can a person make on that level?

Speaker B: Well, someone's, I could make as much as 8, 9, 10, 11k. Someone's out make zero. If I didn't have a show, I made zero. Some months towards the end of my career, I was getting paid about seven to nine hundred dollars per set. Mhm. Basically. And I would do about one a week when I wasn't on tour. So um, some of the shows would be 500, some would be 7, some would be 400, some would be 900. But if you averaged it out, probably 2 to 3k a month.

Speaker A: Interesting, man.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean there's no record sales anymore, right. You don't only get paid when you gig.

Speaker B: Pretty much you get money from, do get a bit from selling records, but not a lot. You might get two grand per release if you're lucky. Wow. You know, so it's just nothing. And this is what. Right. So one day I came home from a show. I was DJing in London at this club called Fabric. And I came home and there was a trading documentary on tv. Right. And it was very glamorized, it was not very real. You know, it was clearly made for tv. Yeah. And it showed. There was like an older guy and a younger woman and a younger guy, older, you know, whatever. And it was telling all these different people's stories. And that was the first time in my entire life that I learned that you could make money from the Internet.

Speaker A: What year was that?

Speaker B: This was, it was either 2017 or 2018. All right. And that was the number one first time in my entire life that I finally found out you can make money from a computer. And it, and it, and it just blew my mind. I was like, so you're telling me I cannot leave the house and I can make money? And I, I thought, well, if I could do it with DJing, I could finally make good money and I can stop scraping by on 1 or 2 or 3k a month. And now I could make more. So I instantly opened a trading account, put £500 in beginners. Look, I grew that up to about 7,8k over about 4,4 or 5 months. Wiped almost all of it in a day and then took some out. I bought my first ever course for £300. I got my first ever mentor. Uh, and that's kind of where the story pivots away from music to trading. And then that ended up Getting me my first ever E Learning customer. Someone messaged me one day asking for help. That started the E Learning company. And the rest is history. Really?

Speaker A: That's crazy because you strike me as a very analytical person. You clearly understand the numbers, the systems behind that. That's also obviously what you're talking about. But then hearing that you were a dj, which is very much, you know, the other brain half.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was that something you were always aware of? Was it something you naturally transitioned in? Was it hard for you to rethink or. How can I imagine that?

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, for sure, man. Well, when, when I was younger, the first thing that I really did and loved was skateboarding.

Speaker A: No shit.

Speaker B: So I used to that. I just loved it. M. Man, that was like my number one passion in the world. I just lived to skateboard all the time. And through skateboarding I learned about graffiti. Right. And before I talk about graffiti, right, instead of just skateboarding, I got a camera, got editing software, and I would make skateboard videos and then try and sell them to my friends.

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker B: Uh, and then I got into graffiti and instead of just writing like, like the other writers that I knew and painting, I started a graffiti magazine. M so I got Photoshop and I would take the pictures as we went all over England and interview, uh, other writers. And I made a magazine and I would save up to make them myself and just make a hundred copies. And then I gave them to art stores to sell them on like a sale or return basis. And again, instead of just doing it, I made it a product.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And then when I got into, through graffiti, I got into music because one of my, uh, writer friends djed on the side who I told you earlier I was buying records from. And that led me to music. And instead of just buying records and playing it, I started making my own music and trying to get it signed, you know. So every time I've ever done something, I've turned it into a product and tried to sell it, you know, so skateboard videos, graffiti magazine records, um, trading. I even ended up productizing by making a course and doing coaching and stuff. Yeah, so I've always just liked making things and building things and figuring stuff out, you know, it's quite strange. So I don't know where it comes from.

Speaker A: Did you ever play Lego as a kid?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Did you ever play strategy building games, like video games?

Speaker B: I played video games, but not for very long. And it was just like Grand Theft Auto Drive, uh, you know, just those kind of games. It was never building games. No.

Speaker A: That, that's interesting because what you said, what you said about like creating something and that was always the, the common theme. Yeah, that resonated a lot with me, was very similar as a kid. That's, that's why I asked you about Lego and video games is like, I, uh, was obsessed with Lego, but only ever with the building stage of it. Like, I love the idea of like, I get something and I build it. And then once I built it, I was like, I'm not no longer interested in. I used to tear it apart and build it again until I got bored of that. And then video games came along. I was always addicted to the city builder of video games, where you could just build a city, you built the economics behind it. You let it grow, you let it prosperity. And then until I reached like 100% and then I would get bored and I get a new game. And then, um, I got hooked on video games for the longest time. And then I also became a musician, um, more like in the heavy metal direction with playing guitar at a couple bands. And there was also just a creative process of creating a song and the artwork and the brand around it and what would we wear on stage. And kind of like the whole package around it was always the creation side of things. And then when I started with my first business, the dating consulting business, it was. I remember I woke up one day and I opened my tabs of like, here's my YouTube channel, here's my Instagram, here's the. I can't remember what we used like my. As a payment processor, but it had like a dashboard where I could see how much money came in overnight. And I looked at all the numbers and you know, how much they grew overnight, like plus 1% or whatever. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is just like the video games. It's like I read the video game stats, but instead of like high score points, it's like real subscribers or real money. And I'm like, holy shit. I could actually do things with this in the real world. This is pretty interesting. So it gave me like a quantification and that made. And that all of a sudden made me addicted to business. And I haven't stopped with that addiction yet because you can just play this game infinitely, which is very, very interesting that for you, that was also the common theme. And that's how when I started watching, uh, your content, I can't remember if I found it organically or if someone recommended it to me, but I was like, when I watched your videos, I'm like, this guy clearly doesn't need his YouTube channel. This guy clearly, uh, it wasn't one of your first videos about like how you sold your eight figure company or something like that. So I'm like, okay, this guy clearly is not one of these gurus that has the YouTube channel as some sort of funnel to make money. Like this guy already has the money. And I could feel it with everything. The way the video was edited with like no cuts, the way you presented it, like completely freestyle with no like weird fucking script behind it. The way the thumbnails and the titles look, they're like these are good thumbnails and titles, but they're not over engineered, split tested to the death.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I like everything about that screams like this guy just wants to create awesome things and build something. And, and I think that's what made your content blow up so much. People feel that authenticity behind it. You're you, your only goal is just to create and build cool.

Speaker B: Dude. I, I love how talking about skateboarding like kind of brought that conclusion together. But it's. I, uh, I think that's the root of it, man. I mean I was thinking about this earlier today, right? So I just realized yesterday that from the real estate portfolio I make about 1.3k a day in rent now, right? And I literally just realized that yesterday. And my first thought was, well, why the are you still working then? You know, and honestly I went for a cigar on the balcony. I was just thinking, when M. Will I stop? You know, because now I kind of could stop. Especially with the bloody bar. Living in Bali, couldn't get a cheaper place, you know, and we own the villa outright and that kind of thing. So I was thinking, hm, hm, you know, why? But I still feel this drive to just create and like doing the ads this afternoon, I would, I would. What, what the would we do if we didn't do business? You know?

Speaker A: M. It's a very real question. I. I had the same feeling after my first business. I could have retired and people even asked me like, are you going to retire now? Cuz I mean I probably didn't have enough to live like a baller for the rest of my life, but I could live pretty comfortably for like decades. And I'm also like, it was the furthest away. That was the furthest away option for me. Like retire what? Like, uh, even if I would retire, I would probably have another project. I would or whatever become like a streamer. Just stream about playing video games or a musician. I would always create something Because I really loved it. And me being me, I chose the most difficult option of them all, which is like, figure out cold traffic and each hit for the next two and a half years while rebuilding the entire company, recreating a new offer, etc. But, uh, I didn't. I think, like, otherwise I'd just get bored. And I, um, think it's because our brains are so wired on fixing problems and finding solutions to it that I think we all start with, hey, if I figure out X amount of solutions to X amount of problems, I can make X amount of money. And at some point, the money doesn't m is not necessary anymore, like you said. But the brain is still hooked on this, like, yeah, wake up task of the day. Find problems and find solutions. It's just so caught up in that, which is great because it's. It's. It's who we are. It's what we've become.

Speaker B: Definitely, definitely. Do you feel like the money, though, is quite addictive? The cash flow?

Speaker A: Sure, sure. Also, but at. At a certain point, it has, like, the. The amount that you make extra gives, um, you less and less. Right. So it's like the difference between making 500k at the end of the day, EBITDA or 400k. You're like, it doesn't titillate my brain that much anymore.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I'm a bit. I've only got one more kind of, uh, like, buy something goal. And that's just the Dubai villa.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And part of me doesn't want to get it, because when I get it, I'm like, well, there's literally nothing else to buy. I mean, apart from maybe a private jet or something, which is just ludicrous.

Speaker A: I was gonna say, you have a jet, man.

Speaker B: So I'm just thinking, like, what am I gonna want next?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And why? And will I want something else? And what will I want? So it's funny, man. Just never ends.

Speaker A: It's funny that you mentioned private jet. I've talked to Cole Gordon. I'm not sure if you know him.

Speaker B: Of course. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, he was on the podcast as well. He said exactly the same. He's like, I only got one more thing to buy that's a private jet. And I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, you know, like, traveling sucks. You gotta go there two hours earlier, even if you have first class.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Private jet. You just show up. And he said exactly the same. It's like, after the private jet, I wouldn't know what else to buy. And you Know what I think it is? Like, once you got that, you'll just start giving it away. I think that's where your brain goes in a different direction. That's where you start. Foundations.

Speaker B: I agree.

Speaker A: That's where you just say, you know what?

Speaker B: Fuck it.

Speaker A: Hey. Like, is there a species of whales that we can say, fuck it, let's just set up foundation or help the kids in XYZ country. Yeah, and then, um, and then you were going to play a whole new level because then it's, it's, it's. You're playing an even bigger game, I think.

Speaker B: You know what, I actually think you're right there. I think the next thing I would probably buy is buy my brother a house and then buy my mum a watch and buy my brother a car, my dad another car and all this stuff. So, yeah, I think then you've kind of got, uh, to sort yourself out first. But I think the next thing to do is, right, sort your family out. Then the next thing probably sort your friends out. The next thing is probably just help random other people through charity. So I think it kind of does move outwards, like, I think so.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What else are you going to do with the money?

Speaker A: Yeah, what else you got to do? You mentioned the, uh, the real estate portfolio. How did you start with that? Because for me, I'm like, I never dealt with real estate, never thought about it, and now, you know, my whole active income. So I always started putting money away into your crypto gold and whatnot. Like, I have some shares in companies as well, but never touched a real estate thing. But I get, I get more and more interested in it. So I think, like, this year I'm gonna start buying my first, you know, small things. How did you exactly get started with that? How did you scale it to the level where you're not making 1.3k a day with it?

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure, man. Well, real estate was. I remember back when I was a musician, right, I went to a real estate one day conference thing where you could learn about it. Because when, uh, I was younger, my dad always said to me, you know, oh, if, if you're ever lucky enough to make a lot of money, buy real estate with cash and put it away so that you don't lose it. Uh, and my dad always used to sow the seeds of doubt in me. He was always like, oh, what if you break your leg and you can't fly and then you can't DJ anymore? Or what if this happens? What if this happens? So as I Started to make decent money as a musician. My dad was like, oh, you better save the money or what if no one likes your music anymore later, you know. And um, then I happened to go to this real estate conference and they were talking about how you can buy it and then it goes up in value and you can also rent it out. So you kind of make money from it two ways. And it just felt like a very safe good investment because you can buy it, you can live in it, then you don't have to pay rent and it goes up in value and you can rent it out. So I just really like the asset class, you know. And I, I also thought maybe that was my way to make more money as a musician. I, I always used to think like if I can just buy like 100k house, I could rent it out for maybe 600amonth. That would cover my bills and then I could do music for fun instead of needing the income from music. And that's my, my first ever wealth plan was just stay at home with my parents, make as much money as I could from music, slowly buy houses, rent them out to get the extra money and over time I would make more decent money. So that's what I started doing. I saved up um, enough for a deposit. So my first ever house, it was 51k for a little 2 bed house in the north of England. And I bought it on a uh, 25% deposit but like 15k in rented it out. Then I got another one which was like 70k on a deposit, same thing again.

Speaker A: And you always had the rent money pay off the rest.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, yeah, so I would have a mortgage of let's say 250amonth. I'd rent it for say 600amonth and keep the little bit of profits like 300, 400amonth. But by the time I bought my second one, it was around that time that I discovered trading and it led to the info business. And uh, that made money quite fast, you know. So in, in year one of the info business I made about, I think it was, I can't remember, 30k, 40k, something like that. The next year I made about a quarter of a million. The next year I made about 1.3 million. So by year two I was actually using that money to pay off the mortgages, you know. So then I had two mortgage free places, then I bought an apartment and then you know, as I made the info money I just put it in, in real estate man. Because again I was scared to uh, I was scared that it would either stop or that I would waste it, you know, So I was always very driven by fear and I was like, oh, uh, when I get this money, I better keep it. Yeah. You know, not, not waste it. So I didn't buy clothes, didn't buy a car. When I moved out, I moved into a 1.5k studio. It wasn't even a really a one bed. It was like a big room, the bed and a kitchen, you know, because again, I was scared. I didn't want to waste the money. Yeah. And I was, dude, I was making

Speaker A: about

Speaker B: 30k a month at the time and I was still scared to spend two, you know, So I had a, A lot of fear.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I just put it all in real estate, man. So. And then over the years, they've got bigger, you know, and then I was buying two apartments at once for half a mil. And then I bought one in this building downstairs for like 1.2. Then I bought this for 1.9. Um, and they've just got bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, to the point where. This is my 12th one now.

Speaker A: Wow. So do you always buy them ready to go or do you renovate them? Do you flip them first?

Speaker B: Buy them ready to go.

Speaker A: Buy them ready to go. Yeah, fuck it. Just don't even deal with it. No, it's a good idea, actually.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, because I, I think about this a lot. I'm like, okay, if I want to get into real estate, how much of my focus will it take? And then, you know, if I want to, like, make it nice and profitable, I probably have to deal a lot with it. And then it. Complications arise in the process, and then that takes my focus away from the main business. So ultimately it's actually like minus EV because I have such high opportunity costs because I have to split my focus, which is, I, uh, guess the reason why I just buy them ready to go because I don't have to deal with much.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really. People always say real estate is really hard. It's not hard at all. I, It's. I've never. If it's hard, I've never experienced it, you know, Like, I, I don't hear from. I mean, the tenants don't know who I am because they rent from a management company, so they don't know who I am, where I live, you know, or whatever. They just send the management company the rent. They take 10 off. Why me? The rest, I had some come in about an hour before this podcast, so it just flashes up on my phone and it goes into the bank account and whenever something happens, they just WhatsApp me. Like, uh, a few weeks ago they were like, the bath has leaked. They, there's a bit of mold and it needs a replacement. It's 300. Should we do it or not? Like do it done. And then they just take it off the rent and send me the rent minus 300, you know, so you don't even, you don't even pay for it. Wow. They just take it off the rent.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: You know, so it's, it's so simple.

Speaker A: So the management company also covers part of the costs or, or what exactly is their responsibilities.

Speaker B: So their responsibility is essentially to, if you're starting from scratch, they've got to find you a tenant. They vet the tenants. Then, you know, they will say to you, right, well, we've got these three tenants that want the apartment. Um, can you check out their applications, their job, their income, whatever, uh, whether he had pets, whatever, whatever it is. And then I'm like, right, yep, let that guy in. And then they sign a 12 month contract. They pay, uh, a deposit. So they pay for two months up front and we keep one month just as, just in case. And then if something went wrong, let's say like, I don't know, uh, a leg breaks on the chair. Well, I'll get a WhatsApp. And he'll say, well, a leg's broken on the chair. Um, it is £40 to fix it. Can can we send a contractor tomorrow? Yes, you can. No problem. And then when the rent is due, I'll get the PDF in my email and it will be minus £40. And they'll just wire me the rest.

Speaker A: Love it. So no pain in the ass?

Speaker B: No pain in the ass for, for almost all of the units that I own. Like, I mean, I haven't even. Some of the tenants have been in there for two years, three years. I haven't even heard from them like ever, you know. And uh, a couple of the units have doubled in price as well now. So the first one I ever bought for about, I think it was 51 is now worth about 110. The second one I bought was about, I think it was like 64 or something. Is now worth about 130.

Speaker A: Over what time span are we talking about here?

Speaker B: Over 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 20. About five years, five, six years.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ish.

Speaker B: So you get the growth, you get the rent every month as well. So it's, it's, it's great, man.

Speaker A: I got to Start doing that. Yeah, I got to start putting some money onto that. It. You make it sound so much easier. And I trust your judgment more than you know it is.

Speaker B: I mean, it is. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's funny because like every time, like the biggest problem I hear is like vetting the tenants. Because you have to like, understand, like, who's going to me up, who's going to be a pain in the a. But you're just outsourcing. As a management company, they probably vetted thousands of people before, so they probably know what they're doing.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it goes through like, uh, it goes through. I can't remember what it's called, but it goes through like a search.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Where they scan the variables like some AI thing and it knows how long they've been in their job, whether they've ever had any debt, how much debt they've got, you know, so. And it kind of gives them a ranking on a one to ten scale, you know, ten is like dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thing and one is like, do not let them rent. And um, most of them, especially for the city center apartments that I've got, they're always eights.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Seven, eight, nines. M that like a doctor, lawyer, nurse, you know.

Speaker A: What's the differences in countries? You have real estate in the UK and Dubai and other places as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I've got one in Bali, two here, and the rest in England.

Speaker A: M. What's the difference if there is any?

Speaker B: Well, the difference. The nice thing about Dubai is they can pay annually. M. So you just get. You don't get it monthly, you get it annually, which is pretty sweet.

Speaker A: Why?

Speaker B: You know. Well, imagine if we rented this place, we would get around, around 10 to 11k.

Speaker A: Per month.

Speaker B: Per month, yeah. So if someone moves in on a one year contract, you just get wired 120 grand in cash.

Speaker A: Oh, right away.

Speaker B: Right away.

Speaker A: Oh, interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I, I prefer that because the

Speaker A: tenant pays it in a year. Yeah.

Speaker B: No shit. Yeah. So in Dubai you usually pay either annually or in. In half. So six month upfront or at the worst, quarterly. So my, my tenant downstairs pays quarterly. Um, and it's just. I don't know, it feels better to. To just get it quarterly for, for me. Yeah, better. And then you can, because I store a lot of cash in high interest bank accounts, so the sooner I get it in there, the sooner I can start getting the 5% on that as well. So. Uh. But yeah, what's the difference? People M in Dubai seem to care more. They're usually entrepreneurs. They've got the capital, they're not going to fuck up your apartment. You know, the guy downstairs moved a big sick piano in, which looks dope. Um, yeah. And you get a lot more rent.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: As well.

Speaker A: You know, that is actually really, really, really interesting. What you said earlier, I found pretty cool way said like you're, you've been very fear driven, especially with finances. It's funny, I had already made my first million and I just got off the back of four years of world tour and I moved to Helsinki. And uh, I also, I was like, okay, this is the first time ever since I was a student that I get my own place, I'll rent it. And I'm like, okay. And in my head, um, it cannot be more than a thousand euros a month rent. And I found a place that was exactly a thousand euros a month. And it was like a student. Also like a student studio type thing. It was a living room with a bed in it and a separate kitchen and one bathroom. And I lived in there and I was super happy. I'm like, what do you mean? It's got everything I need. Like I have a corner. It was a tiny table like this where I could put my laptop on to work to make my second million dollar program that ended up making me my, my second, uh, million dollar launch. I had a, I had a kitchen where I could cook my meals and I could calculate my macros and I had a bathroom where I could shower. It's all I really needed. And a friend of mine who's also an entrepreneur in Germany, he visited me, uh, he flew me out. I uh, had, I was on his podcast and he enters the apartment, he's like, what the is this? I thought you're a millionaire. Yeah, like this is like a student apartment. I'm like, yeah, what's the problem? He's like, I thought you're going to live baller, like why wouldn't you live more baller? And that was, it clicked for me for the first time. I'm like, yeah, like why wouldn't I? And I realized it was still like my old belief of like, don't spend a lot of money on rent because you never know what's going to happen. But I had already over a million on my bank account. My question to you is, has that changed? Do you still have fear in your decision making the same amount, less or even more?

Speaker B: Great question, man, great, um, question. I would say a similar amount, but, but I just, it's, it's very strange, man. It's, you know, the whole psychological brain thing, I think when you're driven by fear, it's really hard to get rid of it, you know? Um, and even, you know, one of the things I do, I keep a disgusting amount of liquid cash, you know, which many people would just think is just ridiculous. But I m don't know, man. I don't know. I still, I still feel just as driven as when I started the last business. M and I still have the same amount of worry and fear, but it's just less logical now. And I know that it's less logical now so I can kind of bat it away faster.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, when I was back in my parents spare room and I felt the fear, it was like 100 intensity. It was like I am um, broke as and I need to solve this. And now if I feel the fear, I'm like, I'm m just gonna look around. I'm like, well, yeah, but nah, it's all right, it's all right. Yeah. So I still do feel it, but I can control it a lot better now.

Speaker A: It's funny, uh, I spoke to Elliot Hulse once. He was on the podcast as well. And one of his old, old videos still resonates with me to this day. It's like imagine you're uh, you're walking down the street, you by yourself, and all of a sudden you have a rabbit dog starting to bark at you. He's aggressive, he's one of these pit bull dogs that could take down a human. And he's starting to charge at you and he's clearly there. You up. So what do you do?

Speaker B: You start running.

Speaker A: Your, your legs are starting to go as fast as you can, your heart pumps faster, you start sweating, you're at full on fireflight mode. And you run and you run and you run and you run and you run and you turn around, the dog still there. You turn around, the dog still there. You keep running, you turn around and the dog's not there anymore. It's hard to then stop and relax. You're going to be on fight orf flight mode for much longer, perhaps the whole rest of the day. And I think that's what happens to a lot of entrepreneurs. You start running because you're broke, living in your parents basement. In my case, I was broke. I was a student, I was unhappy with my life and I started running. And we start running and we run and we make more and more capital. Next thing you know, you live in Dubai, you own real estate, you do whatever the you want. But that Dog is still very much alive in your brain. That dog might have died a while ago already. But, uh, I think, uh. And honestly, I think it's health.

Speaker B: I do. I think it's very healthy, man. I m. Think it's really, really healthy. Like. And I've seen, you know, I won't. Maybe I should tell the story, but I've seen things go wrong. Let's hear it for people, you know. Well, ah, uh, man, I just had this friend who the business basically stopped working and he was just one of those people who spent the money as fast as he got it.

Speaker A: Was it info biz?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In info slash agency, kind of hybrid thing. And yeah, I mean, dude, you know, he's one of those guys where he's got two cars and seven watches and he's renting three different apartments in different parts of the world even when he's not living there and stuff like that. And when things go wrong, then they go wrong really fast. Yeah. And then you've got the fear of dealing with it, which you even more, you know, Whereas if you've got loads of cash and you've got real estate, you know, bought and you're safe, if that happens, you're kind of good. You can, you know, it's a different approach now. Okay. We're calm, we're good, we're solid. And then, you know, you can save it a lot easier and a lot faster sometimes. But yeah, I've just seen people. And that just adds to my fear as, uh. Well, I'm like, oh, hell, you know, so, yeah, it's the, the dog analogy is a powerful one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, even though you're almost certain that you're going to be good, you've got to be careful still, you know, because things think things can change and you just never know when. So I think it is a healthy fear.

Speaker A: It's. It's also I feel like when you're at a stage where you have the cash, you have the passive income already anyways. Your brain operates on a different wavelength and you have an easier time innovating and being creative because you're not obsessed. Like, I know this. I was in a situation where we had to eat shit for like two and a half years to figure out cold traffic. And I was just living purely off my savings. I was maintaining the exact lifestyle because my lifestyle was never that lavish, but I was maintaining that. But I knew it was going to be finite because I, I was gonna need to make some cash, especially if I want to build a Family. And I want to keep supporting my whole family and everything. So my mind was not in this thriving mindset. It was not in the creative mindset either. It was more like, check the stats every day. How much money are we going to make? When are we going to be profitable? You obsess with the notifications. Oh, it's 6pm we still haven't made a close yet. We got to close this much to catch up.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you're just that constantly in this, like, dealing with things you get super addicted to, to cheap dopamine. You try, you scroll a lot through the. Through Instagram, you get distracted very easily. Um, I got really, really hooked on coffee.

Speaker B: Caffeine.

Speaker A: Just like drink coffee just to feel anything. And um. And I was not in the space of like, let me come up with like, cool ideas to innovate. And then once we started getting profitable with the cold traffic and the team was kind of operating by itself, all of a sudden it opened up this bandwidth and that extra frequency in my brain to think bigger picture, to come up with new ideas. And that's how I. Excuse me. That's how I came back to relaunching the podcast, but with guests. That's how I came back to let me make more free content again. That's how I then reiterated version 3.0 and 4.4.0 of my old offer, which led ultimately to our current offer, which is by far the best and easiest offer to sell that I've ever had. But I had to be in that mindset first, where it allowed me to unlock, to tap into that creativity. Now, you being a very creative person that is in an entrepreneurial role, what's your, how do you access your creativity? Is it something that you consciously do every day or is it something that just kind of comes like the museum?

Speaker B: It just comes. Yeah.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it just comes. But I can definitely relate to, to what you've just said there because, dude, my last company was very much like that. It was like 95 paid ads. M. And it was a massive sales team.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: A big hairy beast of a businessman. And dude, the day that I sold that thing, it was like a switch flicked off, you know, and I was, I went from like, check the ads and how many closes have we had? What's the, what's the ROI for the month?

Speaker A: Yeah, all this.

Speaker B: We need a meeting. Yeah, just like, ah, this just like chilled and it was, it was so good, man. For the, for the short period before my YouTube blew up, for that short period where I had no team, and I just had a few clients making like 40, 50k. Just pure cash profit. No ads, no team, no YouTube. It was pretty fucking nice, you know, And I'm, I'm always tempted. I'm always, uh, it's always there in the back of mine. I was like, I could just. I could just fire everyone and I could just fuck it all off, you know, and just get a few clients. It's very fucking tempting, man. You know, So I can relate to some of these. I really don't like these guys that, like, live in Bali and are happy with 10, 20k a month. I think, like, come on, grab your fucking ball. Same. Let's, let's fucking go.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, you know, you're, you know,

Speaker B: you know, I just don't like them. I respect them, you know, for sure, but I'm like, come on, let's go. But equally, there's some beauty in that. There is some beauty in no ads, no team, no massive grind, no loads of data.

Speaker A: You know, the way we made it work for me, especially mentally, is we figured out to just be super profitable on the front end with low ticket. And I can't share the exact numbers, but we're like, it varies between, like, almost profitable purely and like, more unprofitable on the front end. So it's basically just like running ads for free. And that just did everything for me. All of a sudden I'm like, oh, my God. Ah. Uh, yeah, I don't need to fucking scream at the sales team. And, uh, coincidentally, sales team is doing even better now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because I don't know, maybe they don't feel the pressure or whatever, or they just gotten really good over the years anyways, and that was really like the game changer for me. And then, and then, funny enough, the reason the, the big change and also to the organic is like, now I have the capacity to do organic stuff, to bring out content for free. Um, but anyways, back to the. To the main things is like. So you said the muse just, it just comes for you. What, what happens when you do get the idea and you're, you're busy, you're doing something right.

Speaker B: You're.

Speaker A: You're in a meeting, you're going somewhere. Do you pause? Do you write it down so you don't forget?

Speaker B: I do. Yeah. So I remember a few weeks ago, I was just sleeping, you know, with. With my girlfriend, and all of a sudden I was like, pass me my phone, pass me my phone. I've got a YouTube title I need to write the YouTube title down now. And I just had a sick title is like 2am or some shit. And she was like, what do you mean, pass me your phone? I was like, pass me my phone. Because I charge it on her side of her bed and she passes me the phone. I just write it down because I've got like a note in my iPhone of all the titles.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I just think of titles all the time. And, yeah, I'll just write them down. And, uh, if sometimes I just want to, like, I get a sick idea for a YouTube video. You know, a few weeks ago, it was like 10pm But I just had the best idea and I was at home and m. I was ready, so I just went in and shot the video. And that's a. That's a great thing, man. Um, that's a great thing, you know? So, yeah, you've got to act on it because when you lose it, you can't. It's just never the same when you lose exploration, man.

Speaker A: I've added so many times, so I'm

Speaker B: like, I'll remember it.

Speaker A: You never remember or you forget that thing.

Speaker B: I've done that so many times, man.

Speaker A: It's. It's come to a point where it's like, I. I'm on a highway, I'm driving a car, I'm operating a vehicle. I have that idea. I legit take the next exit, I park and I write it down.

Speaker B: Got to do it.

Speaker A: You have to do it.

Speaker B: Got to do it.

Speaker A: And the, uh, and the. Yeah. IPhone notes, voice notes I send. I send my staff, like, hey, random voice note. Just write this down. Yeah. Things like that are incredible. Uh, I do have that, but I can also kind of force the muse to come to me. It takes about half an hour. I sit down, I start writing down ideas, and it's just like, idea, idea, idea, idea. And then they start getting better. And then all of a sudden, it's a good idea. Good idea, Good idea. It's like very much momentum based on, um. It was the same as a musician, too. It's like, you sit down, sometimes you don't feel it at all.

Speaker B: Painful.

Speaker A: Yeah, you just start dabbling with melodies. And after an hour, when you're warm, you start grooving. And I think, uh, it's a little bit of a muscle that you need to build. But obviously, like, if you're ready and it just comes to you, just be ready to write that stuff down.

Speaker B: Yeah. God, I. I used to hate that with music, man. You know, because, like, the further I got in my music career. The more like, I was money hungry. M. You know, and the more money hungry I was, the worse it was. It was the harder to write music. And then you're just more trying to think what will sell, what will get a good reaction when I play it, you know, rather than just making whatever you want. I'm. You can never get those days back, man.

Speaker A: I was, I was talking to Ibrahim about this on the way here. It's like, it. It must be incredibly corrupt. Corruptive to. To. To the creative process. Yeah. Because you stop expressing yourself and you start catering. I'm m like, okay, what's going to get me the next gig? Yeah, it's going to get m. Me the next album sale or whatever.

Speaker B: Uh, you know what? I was making, uh, ads this afternoon and I was thinking, like, I was just in a, in a, in a funny mood. I was like, what? How can I make the ads funny? I was like, should I shoot them on the toilet? Should. Should I shoot them whilst cooking? You know, should I shoot them? I ended up shooting them on the treadmill desk. Uh, I was like, I've never seen ads shot on a treadmill desk before. So I'm going to do them on the treadmill desk. But I feel like now that I'm at the stage where I don't really need more money, I can just fuck around, you know, because it's not as. Love it, you know, it's not as deadly important. It's important, but it's not, you know, it's not like deadly important. So I think if you can get to that energy where you're kind of good and then you can fuck around, you often then do better work. That's a bit of a hack, you know, when you don't need something to work, it's more fun to make because you, you're not. There's not, you know, when you're making something that fucking has to work, it's just so fucking stressful.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You're like, oh, come on, it's got to work.

Speaker A: People feel that.

Speaker B: Yeah, horrible.

Speaker A: We, we used to teach that in the dating world all the time. It's like if, like, women smell every gram of desperation on you, they smell

Speaker B: it, they know it.

Speaker A: So we would always teach our clients, try to not want anything from anybody. When you go out, when you approach someone, when you talk to people at a party, never be the guy who needs a good reaction, who needs the validation, who needs the phone number, who needs to get a kiss or whatnot to feel good. Try to feel as good as you can about your life, which is where the whole background of your life comes together. Like, are you going to the gym? Are you eating healthy? Are you working on something that you're passionate about? Are you going, you know, to build something that you're interested in? Do you feel good in your business? Do you have so much to give that you don't need the reaction to feel good when you go to bed tonight? And then all of a sudden, the more you have that aura around you, all of a sudden the more attractive people become to you. Like, guys want to be your friends, girls will want to be with you. And for a lot of guys, they're like, but I don't have anything going for me yet, right? It's the mind fuck is like, you may. I think a lot of men have noticed that, like, the moment you have a girlfriend, all of a sudden more women are interested in you. And you're like, where have you been? When I was single, I don't need you anymore, right? But because you don't need them, all of a sudden they're interested in you. So it's like a little bit of a mind fuck. And the hack that we used to teach our clients was, well, borrow the abundance from the future. If you're on the right path already, you're going out, you work on your social skills, you're working on a better life, you're gonna have that abundance where you don't need anyone in a year from now or in two years from now. So try to borrow it from the future and act as if you already have it, because now you can't. You can attract more and more people. And that happens to be the truth in the dating world, but it's also the same in the business world. Like you said, like, all of a sudden you're coming up with funny ads, ideas that m probably will convert much better because you're like, this guy's funny. He doesn't need my money. And uh. And I think that that's what works. And again, like that. That was also the first thing I wanted to tell you earlier is like, that's probably what makes your content so attractive. Because people know this guy doesn't need me to buy anything from him. He's just there to give. And coincidentally, that, uh, that's also want to. Something I want to ask you is like, you've become known to be like the white short guy. Like, you're not here to wear the crazy expensive clothes. In fact, when. When we were at Lunch. She said you buy them at H

Speaker B: and M M. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Don't judge me.

Speaker A: Exactly. And was, uh, that a conscious choice or did you just started wearing them and people started, started realizing it?

Speaker B: Dude, I've been wearing white T shirts right back to the DJ days. Like, I'll never forget, man. Like, I was once wearing a black T shirt and I was walking through my hometown with, with this girl and I bumped into like some, some other girl and she was like, where's the white T shirt? I've never, I've never seen you not wearing a white T shirt. This is like 2012 or something. So I don't know. I've just always done it, man. You know, I just, I don't know, I just think they look clean and they're just normal. And you can wear jeans with them. You can wear nice shoes or not nice shoes. You know, it's just, it's just easy.

Speaker A: Is your closet just white shirts? If you open it, it's just the same white shirt 100 times.

Speaker B: More or less. Yeah. Yeah, more or less. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Should make an ad about that. You know, like how Tai Lopez used to have here in my garage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You could be like, here in my closets, only white shirts. And then you obviously have to somehow connect it to the offer. But, like, that would be, that would be an interesting hook.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know, I think it's just, it's just, I don't know, it's just simplicity, you know, I just hate, I just hate having to think about things that I don't think are important, you know, it just annoys me so hard. There's nothing worse. Like when you have to like travel and pack a suitcase. For me, I just put all the white T shirts in my bag and. How many days? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally. And then I can just walk outside and I'm like, jeans, two pairs of black jeans, shorts, two pairs of blue shorts, 7T shirts, two pairs of these shoes, the exact same shoes. We're good to go.

Speaker A: That's a good thing, man. That's, that's the crazy thing about the international market. They really don't care. It's so. Because I quote, unquote, grew up in the German speaking market and there it's very much about what is the person wearing? Are they even professional? Are they legit? And that's why I still wear the polo shirts. I. Almost every shirt I, I wear should have the brand name somewhere on it because I'm still brainwashed from that. But then I see, like, all my competitors are just like, oh, uh, he just wears a random shirt. It doesn't even matter anymore. But I'm still very much in that. And I think now it's too much on my brand mentality to switch back to, to not carry. But, um, yeah, I just, I just think it's fascinating that especially international market people don't care about that surface level stuff. And that's really, really beautiful because it allows you to shine with actually what you have to say. Um, one thing that I'd be interested in is what does your team look like? Because you say you come up with the YouTube ideas, the YouTube titles. Do you have anybody assisting you with that or is it all just you on the creative side?

Speaker B: So now I've literally just hired, uh, a YouTube coach to help me with just, uh, ideas really. So I have a call with him every Tuesday for an hour and we, uh, just chat, we just look at YouTube and we just come up with two titles and come up with two hooks and a rough idea of what we're going to say. And that's it, really. So, um, he gives me a bit of, of help now. But traditionally, before hiring Jamie, I would just, just think of the titles myself, really. And then when I think I've got a good title, the video just comes to me.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, then I just know exactly what I'm gonna say in the video and then I just hit record and make it m. Really? Yeah.

Speaker A: Editing. No, no, nothing. No, I mean, I see it in your YouTube videos. It's like you just press the button on the camera and you start talking. And even now you were editing your own ads. Yeah, super interesting, dude.

Speaker B: I like to do things myself. You know, I was talking to Dan Henry about this. He came over for dinner a couple of weeks ago and he was telling me about, oh, my God, I asked my, this team member to do this and it ain't done. I asked this team member to do this and he did it wrong. Then I had to hire this guy and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, dude, just fire everyone. You, you really don't need them. And, uh, we were talking about, you know who Wes Watson is?

Speaker A: Yeah, I heard of this name, Wes Watson.

Speaker B: There's a lot that he does and says that I, I, I don't agree with.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I think he's a very, well, let's, uh, not get into it. But one thing that I do really like is that he does everything himself. Um, you know that when I Learned that I was like, that's good. That's actually good. And, and I really adopted that. And I've always done. In this business, I've done pretty much everything myself and just kept things immensely simple, you know, um, as much as possible. You know, we have a, we have a small team now. We've got three closers. One setter, a va, a uh, copywriter, and a media buyer that help clients. And that's it.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: So, uh, pretty simple. Seven, six.

Speaker A: Seven people or something?

Speaker B: Yeah. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Speaker A: Crazy. Crazy. Who does your short form videos? Do you have someone do that on your Instagram?

Speaker B: Actually, yeah, we do. We've got, uh, an agency and we basically just send them all the podcasts and then they just send us batches of like 50, uh, reels at a time.

Speaker A: Basically you look at them, you approve them yourself or you just let them rip.

Speaker B: My VA does okay. Yeah, I trust him to do it.

Speaker A: So nice.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We do it similarly with the, with the short form. We create specific content for short form specifically because our Instagram is one of our main funnels that brings us money. Um, but the recycling stuff from the long form also there we just have guys that edit it, they look at it, they make their m. Content and they send them. And I'm like, yeah, here, make the hook a little bit better, change, et cetera, et cetera. But other than that, we just let rip. What we also started just now is clipping. Have you heard of clipping? Yeah, it's where you pay per, uh, I think, I think right now we're paying $2 per thousand views or something like that that they're bringing and you just give them your stuff and like go make cool clips from it. And uh, the first day some guy made a random clip from one of my pockets, already got 10,000 views down. And it's pretty cool because you pay only when they get views and you incentivize them directly. And you know, you never know what talented kid you find, right? Some random 18 year old that is into like video editing. And it's funny, I feel like the younger the person is, the more they understand hooks because their brain is already so hooked on like short form dopamine. Like if you would show like an older person the video that takes like 30 seconds to get to the point, they wouldn't mind. Yeah, but if you show like a 15 year old, a teenager, they're like, what the fuck is this? After three seconds, that's boring. So they're really, really, really good at understanding what makes people excited about that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I actually think that is the big advantage that that new generation has because they clearly don't have the focus, they clearly don't have the work ethic, they clearly don't have the structural. They have huge amounts of entitlement because of people like us. Right. Because we're like, fuck your job, go build a business. They have huge amount entitlement, so they don't have a lot going for them, but they really, really understand short form dopamine, short form content creation, thumbnails, titles. They can be extremely good at copywriting. Some of the best people I worked with in the video editing space, content recycling space and copywriting space were under 20 years of age. And they absolutely annihilate stuff. They're hard to keep, they're hard to, to, to maintain excitement for one thing. They constantly, you know, suffer from shiny object syndrome, but when they're on fire, they really are on fire.

Speaker B: Dude, I'm so happy that I'm not born in this generation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm honestly so fucking happy to have grown up without phones and computers and stuff.

Speaker A: What year are you born?

Speaker B: 1990.

Speaker A: Same. When's your birthday?

Speaker B: 5th of October.

Speaker A: Uh, 26th of June.

Speaker B: Nice. Yeah. So we're more or less the same age. Yeah, yeah, we, we, we had it good man, when we were kids and I think we are just a bit, we're just. But then again, I mean there's advantages to both. There's advantages to both.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: You know, and I think it's important to make that distinction, you know, especially for long form YouTube. It's so powerful man, when, when done right. But it depends what avatar you're going after. Like I wouldn't do long form talking head YouTube if you had like a more mass market younger person offer. Mhm. But I'd fucking do it if you've got more of an offer like we do where it's more 30 year old, 40 or 50 year old, 60 year old.

Speaker A: Exactly. They love it because there you don't have to do the crazy editing, you don't have to do the intro animation stuff like that was exactly the same for me. Our offer right now, we actually fared best. I don't know the exact age anymore, but it was I think between 35 and 55.

Speaker B: You told me that, didn't you? At lunch?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I did, yeah. It's so insane. It's like way older than I'm used to because my first business was 18 to 25 mostly and now it's much older people. So these people, they don't need a flashy, sexy, crazy intro. They're absolutely fine. Like, some of my videos are just cutouts from my seminars that are four hours long. I just have four hour videos on it. And they love it because they do have the time. They do sit down and they don't need that constant dopamine spike, which makes it much easier for me because I'm like you. I'm a rambler. I love talk about one thing. I don't, I don't like having to think too much of, like, oh, but is this going to be interesting? And do I need to make that story a little bit shorter just to keep the retention up? No. I'm like, my YouTube video scripts are like the intro. I put a little bit more thought into, like, what are the first couple sentences that I want to say? How do I make someone excited? And the rest is just three, four, five bullet points that I just write down and then I just riff through those until the video is done.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker A: What was I going to say?

Speaker B: Uh.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So I think the, the power that we have in our generation is we grew up without the Internet, which means we value things that are not necessarily short from dopamine, but we also understand how epic the Internet is and how shitty things were before that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, yeah, the communication. I. I remember I had to. I, uh, communicated with my grandma with written letters.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Which took forever, especially then I was on tour. So my dad had to scan in the letters and send it to me on email. And then I would, like, reply and he would, like, print it out and give it to my grandma.

Speaker B: It's mad, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And now my, My Grandma, she's on WhatsApp. And every now and then she sends me random, like, Q. Like she accidentally pressed the Q button and sent it. You know, uh, she watches all my stories on. On Instagram. That's max. She leaves like, hearts everywhere. It's the cutest thing. And I sent her postcards nonetheless. But, uh, I think that's our, that's our advantage. It's like we understand the power of it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I. The only thing that we need to be aware of is that we continue to stay with the flow to maintain an eye on it. What's the newest stuff?

Speaker B: True. That.

Speaker A: To make sure that we don't turn into our own grandmas and be like, oh, this sucks. Uh, it's too fast for me. I don't. I'm not interested in it.

Speaker B: Anymore.

Speaker A: And that almost happened to me with AI. It's like I was super busy at that time. And then ChatGPT dropped and everybody was freaking out over it and I'm like, I don't have time to deal with it. I look into it later. And then once I did in 2024, I'm like, holy fuck, this just changed everything.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I instantly started writing custom GPTs and all of a sudden I'm like, LinkedIn for example. I never did anything with LinkedIn. Never cared. All of a sudden I'm just like, I created a custom GPT that I would like upload a post from Alex Hormozi and I would feed it all my information.

Speaker B: He told me about that. Yeah.

Speaker A: And it would just rewrite Hormozi's posts in my voice with my background story. And they all performed super well. And I'm like, huh, uh, okay, so now I post on LinkedIn and it took me like 90 seconds on average for post. And LinkedIn audience is great. They had so much fucking money. So I only have like 5,000 followers on LinkedIn and like we convert extremely well from these 5,000.

Speaker B: Dude. Do you think copywriters will get squeezed out of the market? Yes, 100%.

Speaker A: I think there's going to be a, uh, the top 10% of them that are using AI to copyright.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But all the shitty ones that were half assing it in the first place.

Speaker B: All good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What are the roles do you think are going to be removed?

Speaker A: All of them.

Speaker B: Media Buy.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Nah.

Speaker A: Yeah, I already know. Like my media buyer basically just uses AI tools to scrape while converting other copies. And just like, oh my, uh, my media buyer and my copywriter use ChatGPT for almost everything. Emails, ideation, um, especially now. I told you about this at lunch too. Is like phone setting going to be replaced? Phone closing for easy offers going to be replaced. Now extremely good closers are still going to find a way because they'll still have a little bit of an edge. Yeah. Ah, I don't think I'll get rid of my sales team ever because they're just, it took us too long to build this epic company and they're just so good. And he's so lovely and inspiring to work with these guys. But we'll probably have AI systems as an auxiliary. For example. Right now we're scaling so fast. Like our ads are so profitable. We could just like 4x10x ad spend overnight but we couldn't handle all the leads. We like wouldn't know what to do with it. So, so. And it takes us too long to find, hire, train and ramp up new people. Yeah, we're already hiring nonstop by like we're already hiring one to two new people per week in an ideal world. Um, so that like as an auxiliary role we just turn the AI on, do a bunch of the calls, fill up the calendars until we have enough people to, to kind of replace that. Because I like the idea of like having an army, like a fight club of awesome dudes, you know, and now there's some, some of them are living in the same city together. They're like moving in together and they're like we're gonna just do calls non stop.

Speaker B: And on the weekends we get girls

Speaker A: over, we party, dude. All like 20 and they're like making 10k. I'm like for them. They're like holy shit mad. And you have a little bit of a m. Mentor role to them. So they're like epically grateful forever.

Speaker B: And how big is your team?

Speaker A: Sales team right now is I think 10 people.

Speaker B: And what, what about in total?

Speaker A: Um, 30ish. I would say with stuff like that it's, it's decent. I don't want. And the cool thing is like the, at the level that we have right now, I over hired slightly because I wanted to be ready for, for scaling. So a lot of our delivery staff, they're like kind of just waiting for more clients to come in. So the delivery staff will uh, carry us all the way to a million a month. We won't need more people. But with delivery specifically, I always want to be a little bit over than what we need because the last thing I want is that we scale too fast and then the quality starts, the, starts dipping for the client definitely. So I rather want to have like one or two coaches extra, uh, than we actually need just to make sure we're ready for scaling. Uh, sales team, we need um, I think four more setters. We made the calculations to get a million a month and uh, closers. We need I think one more and then we're good to go.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then, and then, yeah, like in terms of AI, like video editing, AI software is getting better by the day. I mean, you know, uh, what's it called the one for that we're using for podcasts? Opus Opus AI. Have you ever heard of it? You upload your whole podcast and you press a button, it makes like 10 videos from it. It like finds the topics. The only thing is it's not that good at creating hooks yet. So I would say it's about 30% of the videos it comes up with are actually good. The rest are not so good. But again, like, that's the shittiest version we will have. It gets better by the week. Now you have, I mean, there's pages like, if you ever go to Instagram and you type in fat fellas, it's just this, like, completely AI generated content of, like, fat black dudes, like obese black guys doing, like, epic stuff, like riding on orcas in the Antarctic or floating up in space. Yeah, it's completely AI generated. This account started posting end of February 2025. It already has 400,000 followers. And they're just selling, like, some crypto coin. But, like, imagine you would sell something actually of value, and it's all AI generated. It's probably like one kid in India that knows how to prompt Sora throws ah, it up and has a good time with it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, um, I don't see much that AI cannot do. I told you about this at lunch too. We have a coaching AI, meaning people can right now chat with my AI. And the AI knows everything that I've ever created a video about, which is basically everything I know. You're like. You're like me. Like, you have a piece of knowledge, you share it, you put it in a video, and you either share the video for free on YouTube or you put it in one of your programs. So the AI basically knows and will know everything I will ever know. So it completely clones my entire. My entire knowledge. And version 2.0, we. We haven't launched it yet, but version 2.0 will be hooked up to my voice. My voice. You know, you can create your voice with, uh, 11 laps relatively easily. It just needs, like 20 minutes of your real voice. Yeah, sounds pretty eerily like me. So now you don't chat with an AI. Now you're on a zoom call with Max, and you're like, hey, Max, my ad spend is like this much. This is my roas. What do you suggest to do? And then I was like, okay, yeah, well, you can scale. You need this many creatives, and you do this X, Y, Z, and that. That is pretty crazy. And then, you know, stage. Stage three will be just a video avatar of me speaking to you on a zoom. Um, like, we always. I. We always joke around. We're like, I could at some point just be abducted by aliens or die in a fiery car crash, and the company will just keep running for years.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's. Dude, that's the dream Isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I hope it becomes a reality.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Because also for businesses like ours, they are traditionally hard to exit because it's a personal brand.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So for a person who buys it, it's just less attractive because I. Okay, well, you're the face of the brand. You're going to be gone. Everything will stall. Well, not anymore because you just sell the rights to your AI liking M& maybe you, you know, have a contract of like, okay, you can never have me say this, you know, you can never have me sell her penis pumps or something like that. Like you can only. It always needs to stick to this topic. But other than that, you know, go, go with my AI and do whatever as you please.

Speaker B: Do it 100%. I'm doing a whole five day bloody event about this thing, you know? Yeah. Have you seen that yet? Oh, you haven't seen it?

Speaker A: What is it?

Speaker B: So it's called the Info to exit challenge.

Speaker A: Oh, no.

Speaker B: And it's come coming up in two weeks on the 5th of May. And every day is a different theme, all about how you can turn a personal brand into an info business and make it saleable and sell.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Essentially so.

Speaker A: And how long does it take in an ideal scenario, from creation to sell?

Speaker B: Depends on the person and the business. Yeah, it depends on the person and the business. But, uh, no one's ever done anything like this before. And this, uh, is some of the stuff that I'm going to be talking about, man.

Speaker A: Sick. You know, it starts on the 5th of May.

Speaker B: You said 5th of May.

Speaker A: Perfect. We're gonna make sure we launch this podcast before that. How can people sign up for it?

Speaker B: Info to exit.com.

Speaker A: beautiful. That's easy.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Of course.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Good. How, how much did the domain cost?

Speaker B: Uh, $97 for a ticket.

Speaker A: No shit.

Speaker B: $97.

Speaker A: That is cheap.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be. Dude, the value is fucking a thousand times the ticket cost, man. It's going to be very, very fun.

Speaker A: Love it, love it. That's great. That's epic. What a, uh, g. William Brown. I cannot overstate how much I'm learning in this episode. I always learn the most on my podcast, I would say. And if you learn something as well, please do consider dropping a five star rating on itunes or Spotify. And if you watching this on YouTube, give a comment and a thumbs up. It helps us rank higher. It helps me reach more awesome guests like William, whose content I've been consuming for quite a while already. And I can get these People on and ask them awesome questions for you and I to learn even more. It's such an amazing journey, this podcast. I am so appreciative of you listening, watching, really. It comes from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much. And now back to the episode. Um, you said you also have a book.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is that about the same topic?

Speaker B: Yeah. How to 10 million. So that I wrote it when I. Well, I wrote it during the sale of my last company, actually. Um, and it's just everything that I've ever learned about how to do what we do, essentially. So just, Just everything. Absolutely everything. Um, from. From kind of start to finish. So. Yeah, and that's. That's been a great way to acquire customers, man. For sure.

Speaker A: How was the writing process?

Speaker B: Fun. It took me about a year and a half.

Speaker A: Every day, two hours, an hour, 30 minutes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I used to do. So I did two hours a morning for about two months. Then I stopped for a couple of months and then went back to it and did the same again. Then did the same again. And then after a year, I'd more or less finished the book. And then I worked with a book, uh, company where they did the edit, they did the proofread and made it a real book, you know, because it was a bit of a mess. They were like, this paragraph's too long. This chapter is way too long. This chapter is too short. You can't say that you need to put images in. So they kind of made it a real book. Yeah, for me. But I just love writing it so much, man.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: Bloody loved it.

Speaker A: Did you use any chat should be tea to help anything like that? Nothing, just a Google Doc or Google Doc.

Speaker B: Yeah, I just banged out the whole thing and then they cleaned it up, um, and did the proofread and just make it professional and nice. Then m. We got an illustrator to do some illustrations for it. Uh, and that was it, man. But it was a labor of love. Wow. No AI. No. Ghost writers love it. The real. The real. And it's basically just everything that I've ever learned is. Is in that book. From what? From if you were brand new to exiting the bloody thing.

Speaker A: You're going to, uh, self publish or. What's the. What's the deal behind that?

Speaker B: Yeah, we, we. We just self published it. Yeah. So it came out last April was about a year ago now. Um, and it's, it's. It's a great asset to have, man. Great assets.

Speaker A: I think people underestimate books for whatever fucking reason. Yeah. The book that you that's why I asked you earlier. I'm like, what book recommendation you have? And I got the book right away.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: Because I'm like, some books can alter your such a heavy degree that like. And the. And the. The thing is like the price of a book, it's like $9 on average or whatever. And the money you get out of it, the ratio between price, what you get out is just insane.

Speaker B: 100%, man. Um. 100%.

Speaker A: Do you have a audiobook of that as well?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's me reading it.

Speaker A: No, I was going to ask. Sick.

Speaker B: That was hard. That was. That was not. Not very fun.

Speaker A: How long did it take you to read for the whole damn thing? Because you already wrote it, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you're forced to read through it as if you're excited about it.

Speaker B: Dude, that was a mission. Well, I mean, I think the AudioBook is like nine hours, I think, but it took triple that to make it because obviously you make mistakes. Uh, and then at one stage I sent them some audio and the audio is not clear. You were like, you've got to redo it. It was a mission, mate. It was an absolute mission. But I'm so happy it's done now. So, yeah, you can get paperback and hardback from Amazon. You can get the audiobook, you can

Speaker A: get the ebook audiobook on Audible.

Speaker B: On Audible.

Speaker A: Hell yeah, dude. I'll get it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'll get.

Speaker A: If you read it yourself, especially then, what made you do it yourself and not just outsource it to some reader?

Speaker B: Because that way. Because that's what. That's what I would want. M. You know, there's nothing better than when you know it's the real author reading it. Because it's just more. You build more of a connection with them.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: You know, don't. It's just. Because then it's. It's not the same when it's some fucking American. You know what I mean? Like, whether it sounds, you know, when it's like not the author and they hire like a professional audio book person, it's just not the same, man. It's not the same. So it's. It's awesome when the author reads it. And I thought, well, I. I want to give people what I would want.

Speaker A: Yeah. So amen to that.

Speaker B: Yeah. What is it called?

Speaker A: How to 10 million.

Speaker B: How to 10 million. Sell your knowledge and make millions.

Speaker A: Love it. Interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah. So.

Speaker A: So with your YouTube channel, what was the intention behind it to get started in the first place? Because it's probably, you Know, it's intimidating. We get started, it's like a new thing. You got to figure it out. How was the first couple videos? How well did they perform? And then also, what's the future? Do you have a specific plan you want to get to with the YouTube?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, when I started, I started, uh, like everybody probably does. I just copied other people. So I got two camera set up editor, uh, cheesy thumbnails. And um, that's just how I just thought that's what you do, you know, that's what the big guys do. So that must be what you do. So that was my first two or three or four or five videos. And then the day that I sold my company, um, I'd lent one of the cameras to one of my buddies and it was like 4pm And I know it goes dark at 6 and I was like, if I don't make a video now, I'm gonna have to fake it tomorrow and pretend that it's real.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I was like, I better just do it now. So I ordered a coffee. I gave myself like 20 minutes just to think, right? What am I gonna say? And I just got my imac built in camera and when the coffee arrived, I just got it press record. And I was like, I've just sold my company. And I thought I'd make a video about.

Speaker A: How was that video? Was that the video I remember, isn't it? Aren't you having your coffee on the thumbnail?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm like, why is he holding the car? That coffee on the thumbnail made me click.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And the title is like, I just stole my comment or something like that, right?

Speaker B: I just sold my company.

Speaker A: That is so funny, man.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, and that was my first ever time that I did that, right? So I just shot it, uploaded it immediately, right? No editing, no planning, no scripting, nothing. And you can tell, I think. And, um, that was my biggest ever video and it got like 110k views. It got me so many clients, some massive guys. Massive. I won't name names, but massive. The biggest guys were messaging me. Be like, well done, mate. You know? Wow, this is amazing. This is going to change the industry and shit. I was like, wow, this is. It was the best thing ever. Sick. It's just the best thing ever, man. Um, and then I learned, I was like, well, hold on. My edited planned ones don't really get any views. This one has just changed everything. So let me just try again, you know. And then I made one called like how to make 10k a month asap. That's got half a million views, you know, that had. Had a quarter of a million views in a month, for God's sake. I was like, wow. No effort, uh, no plan, no thumbnail, you know, I was like, well, this is clearly the way. And then I just kept doing that. Stopped doing what? Didn't work. And, um, that. That's it, basically. And then when that video blew up, I was forced to hire a closer because they booked so many calls. It booked hundreds of calls. Hundreds of calls, dude. We went from. In December, I did about 70k on my own cash. In January, we did 370. No, was it 300? Whatever. It was like 370 cash. Um, so we like 6x the business because of that one video. It was mad sexy. It was just crazy.

Speaker A: Yeah, how, uh, I remember that with, with my first business, it was purely organic. The problem was the ups and downs were so much more, so much wilder than with paid ads. So you'd have a video will go viral, like you said. All of a sudden you're like, okay, I need four more staff, two more closers, two more setters. You hire these guys, they're closing. And then after a couple of months, it started going down. And you happen to not hit virality. So now you're like, okay, now these guys don't have any calls. Yeah, you have to let them go or they quit. Now the next video goes viral. Oh, shit, we need more people again. How do you deal with that?

Speaker B: We've had that, but not extreme, right? So we've had. So when the first video blew up, it was just an, um, unimaginable amount of fucking calls. And I hired two reps at once. And then we were fine for about three months. Then the traffic started tailing off, right? Not in an extreme way, but it slowly got less and less and less. And, um, then I got another big video like maybe three or four months later and another big video maybe four, five, six months later. But honestly, it's got to the stage now where we average about three, uh, to 4,000 views a day. Right. And the calls are immensely consistent. Immensely consistent. And it's just like six, seven, eight calls a day. Obviously, we get four cold days and 12 cold days and nine cold days and seven cold days. But it's just around that. Seven, eight calls a day mark. Very, very, very, very consistently so.

Speaker A: What's the qualification rate on average?

Speaker B: I couldn't give you an accurate number on that.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I know that the close rates, 31 averaged out. I know that we do about 3 to 4k views a day. I know we book about 7ish calls a day.

Speaker A: You do, you do pre qualify them on setter calls first before closing calls or they just have direct closing calls.

Speaker B: They just go straight through the calendar. Oh, okay.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And we just got a very heavy survey. Yeah, very heavy.

Speaker A: They disqualify them on the survey.

Speaker B: Survey, yes. So we, we let anyone book and then my VA cancels the surveys basically. Yeah.

Speaker A: Because I can imagine your audience being usually pretty qualified because you have pretty high level topics.

Speaker B: Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And that this, the survey is so heavy that if you make it through it, you're pretty qualified, you know, because, uh, it's meant to scare people off. And we get a lot of messages from people saying, I was gonna book. But I saw the survey and I was like, I better not. So I was like, good. And that's what it's supposed to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then they go to a setter anyway.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, so interesting. And anyway, so what's the goal then with the YouTube channel? If you have any or you just want to have fun with it as long as lasts.

Speaker B: I do definitely have a goal. I mean I want to get over 100k subs. That's like the next milestone. We're at like 76 now. Um, I don't really have a views milestone. And honestly, if we can just slowly, steadily grow and keep booking this many calls, maybe a few more. I'm going to be a pretty happy guy. Man. I don't really, I don't want to scale to the moon. Um, I just want to, I want to see how far we can grow until it's not fun anymore. I want to find that line where it's too busy, too stressful, there's too much going on, you know, And I think It'll be about 750amonth, I reckon.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: I think.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: And then we'll kind of just come back a bit and try and figure something else out, I think so.

Speaker A: I've been told that you work on something in the background, something new. And I've been told that you may not speak about it, but can you say anything?

Speaker B: Uh, well.

Speaker A: Or um, maybe you don't even know which one of the many things you want in the background I'm even referring to.

Speaker B: Are you talking about the elearning roll up?

Speaker A: I don't know. I've just been told you work on something pretty epic in the background I should ask you about.

Speaker B: All right. All right. Well, yeah, I Mean, I can say I've. I've actually genuinely got like an NDA around this. So that actually is. I hate it when people say that, but I actually have this time. Um, but basically I can say that I'm working with some, some of the biggest. Two of the biggest people in this industry.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And we are basically building a holding company of some of the biggest, uh, elearning companies in this space. And, um, then we were going to take it public, but we're not going to do that anymore. We're just going to build a holding company and then sell the holding company to probably private equity. But some of the businesses that we're going to buy are doing, you know, 15 million a year net profit, 8 million a year net profit. All the. If you picked the top biggest e learning companies in this space, all names that you and everyone would know, um, those are the guys that we're working with to kind of build this holding company. So that's a whole different ball game, man.

Speaker A: But what's scary, what's the purpose of it? What does the holding company do?

Speaker B: Well, we want to sell the holding company. Yeah. So we are gonna, you know, an options agreement is. No, no. So what an options agreement is, is let's say that I say to you, would you sell me your company? And you say, yeah, I'll sell for 5 million. Right. I say, cool, well, I'll give you 5 million, but I ain't giving it to you. Now let's sign this piece of paper that gives me the option to buy it within, let's say, 12 months. But not the obligation Right now. You can't not sell it to me. If I want to buy it, you have to let me buy it in this certain period of time. But I don't have to buy it.

Speaker A: Do I know the price before?

Speaker B: And we know the price.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we agree the price. And when you sign that option, you have to sell it to me. M. But I don't have to buy it. Okay. Okay. So what we're going to do is, is we're going to gather about 50 million worth of net profit, uh, businesses. So it might be 5, 6, 7 companies that all together combined make about 50 million a year profit. We're going to buy them on options agreements, and then we're going to take those options agreements to a private equity firm and say, listen, we've got 50 million of profit here. You give us 150 and you can have it. Uh, they trigger the options. Uh, right. They give all you guys 50 they give us 100 and we're all happy.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: So it's just uh, that's just what a roll up is. You know, you kind of roll up the companies and resell them and take a spread.

Speaker A: Essentially you already know exactly what companies are going to be in the holy company.

Speaker B: Some of them. Most. Most, yeah.

Speaker A: You talk to these folks already, they're done.

Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. That's insane.

Speaker A: Okay, that is interesting. It's so crazy to think about like this whole info business starting like 2013-14ish is when I remember for the first courses.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: A couple hundred bucks. Video courses. Then the high ticket stuff started with um. Who are the first color high ticket guys? Doesn't matter. You see those guys come up and uh, all, you know, prices getting higher and higher to now like being legitimate giant businesses.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: With really, really big brands behind it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's, it's cool man. And, and you know there's of course there's the bottom of the bottom. Like the scammers.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But like most of the people, at least the M people I hang out with, they're all legit. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. They're serious about this. They want to give value. And that's very, very cool to see like how much we emerge from these. Like record a video in your basement and sell it for 95 or 997 to like build a business. Have employees.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Innovate. Uh, I go. Go for it.

Speaker B: You said something earlier that really stood out to me. You said you were talking about your sales team.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you said something like, they're really great, I love them. You know, and you just said it in a way where I can tell that you care about your team. You love your team, they love you and you're really a solid unit. And it's not just a joke.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it's an actual team where you love them and respect them. They love you and respect them. They're in it for the long term. They've probably got solid contracts in place and bonuses and comp and stuff. And that usually is one of the signs that someone's got an actual real solid long term business. You know, it's always the big proper guys that stay and go far. That for me is one of the signs.

Speaker A: Oh, that's sick.

Speaker B: And the reason it's one of the signs is because the private equity firm that bought my company, that was one of their number one signs. So they looked at our team and almost all of our Employees had never left. We'd had. Of all the people we ever hired, two had left. The rest were always there. Wow. And they really liked that. So that taught me, you know, if you've got a team that loves you and stays with you and, and they're good, that's, that's one of the signs. So it's good.

Speaker A: I was going to ask you about that. What other because now when you guys are looking at the uh, at the holding company and you're buying all these digital uh, uh, digital consulting companies.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What do you look for? What is making the biggest guys in the industry? What's making them so big? If you had to break it down into bullet point checkboxes. Yeah. What would that be?

Speaker B: One would be basically the longer the track record the better, you know. So the longer they've been in business

Speaker A: in the same business.

Speaker B: In the same business. So that the one company and the one offer, uh, the better. Right. Is one. So yeah. Uh, level of profitability. So how high is the profit margin and what has the profit margin gone up and down? Has it been pretty stable? And the more stable the better. So long track record, Stable profitability. Reliable profitability. Um, a solid bought in team and ideally a departmentalized team. So they've got like a sales team but it's managed by a sales team manager. You've got a coaching team but there's a head of coaching in place. They've got an accounting team in place, you know, blah blah, blah. So it's not just a team but a well ran stable departmentalized team is very important. Uh, good online reputation, you know, nothing. No kind of scary stuff when you, when you google them, you know, it's pretty clean. That's quite important. And good, good product, happy customers. You know one of the things that the P firm that bought our company, they interviewed all our customers. Right. So you can get caught out.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: That way as well. If they interview customers and your customers are not happy, that can deals up. Yeah. So happy long term team, you know, do people come and go on the team? You know, what's the average team member stay and do they have contracts in place? Do they have NDAs in place? This is another nightmare I've had with a friend of mine recently where a team member quit and started making YouTube videos all about his.

Speaker A: Huh.

Speaker B: You know. Huh. So, so you've got to have good contracts and you've got to think about this because this is the stuff that can up deals and uh, could they go away on holiday for say a Month. And the business at least sustains just things like this.

Speaker A: M. You know, that's very interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially the NDA part. I never thought about it, but I just implement NDAs from the get go right away. But I never thought about the idea of them making YouTube videos about you.

Speaker B: Yeah, you don't. You don't think about until it happens. Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, that's very interesting. No, all of everybody that works with us has an NDA and they all have, uh, incentive structures because they didn't used to. I was very much like, why would I give a percentage? Like it's my business, my percentage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But then I'm like, okay, like let's, as an experiment, just pay more, especially sales staff for examples. Our setters used to just get a base amount with no extra commission. And then we're like, okay, let's give them a base plus commission for every set that closes so they're more incentivized to get more sets.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, uh, that helped tremendously. It helped tremendously. And, um, the whole idea of slow to hire, quick to fire, especially in the sales team, we've had it. It's such a pain in the ass to deal with a closer that doesn't close as well or they don't take the feedback. The funniest thing that I've realized is one of the biggest skills to hire for is how well can they implement feedback. And it sounds so stupid simple. But I've had it so many times where I would, like, I would tell someone, hey, don't say this anymore or don't do it like this, do it like that. And they're like, yeah, okay, I understand. Thanks.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: That's great. Wow. I never knew. Okay, I'll do that. And then the next call, they make the exact same mistake again.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you're like, I just told you. Like what? Like, come on, you did. I just told you what to do when you do the same thing. And you'd be surprised how many people live like that. So we now specifically hire for that. We have a, uh, for this, for closing and the setting procedure. Specifically we have a three interview process. The first interview is just a mock call. We don't even care about anything else. It's like, mark, try to close me. Go. And then I don't even care if they get the close in the mock call or not. What I really care about is, is if they got potential to close me. They listen to my objections, they handle them properly, and then I give them feedback and I'm open And transparent about that. I mean, I don't do the hiring myself anymore, but that's how I used to do it. Now I have a sales manager who does it exactly like that. They tell them specifically. Okay, I'm going to tell you now the three, four, five things that were not good. And tomorrow we're going to do round two and I'm going to specifically give you a scenario where you can prove that you understood these three five things that I'm giving you now. You can write them down, you can ask me questions, you can practice them. I'm going to give you every chance in the world for you to do it right tomorrow. And again, you'll be surprised around 60% of people who get all the info, who know exactly what's going to happen, still don't get it right the next day.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that tells us if I have that guy as a trainee to become a closer or a setter and I'll tell him something, he will do the same mistake again. It's just going to be a pain in the ass.

Speaker B: I hate hiring.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, I hate.

Speaker A: Hi man.

Speaker B: It's such a mission. We've. We've got someone that does it for us now. Do you know who. Who Usman is?

Speaker A: Usman what?

Speaker B: Usman Kayani?

Speaker A: No, never heard.

Speaker B: Uh, no, he's a pretty uh, big sales guy. We've literally, literally just hired him like a few days ago to come in and manage the setting department, manage the sales department, hire fire, do the meetings, do the tracking. Just like he literally said to me, will you will do nothing. And I was like, you're in, Sold. Yeah. M. Let's fucking go. Because we're just. Do you know. You know who Sam Ovens is, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I was in his mastermind before he closed it and we still got the group that was there. So we're all the members that were in then are still in now in the. In the school group. And someone posted in there uh, a little while ago and they were talking about these three phases of these businesses. The around and get it working stage, the scale it to pretty serious numbers stage. Well, I think, I think is where we are at M. I think you're a bit further ahead but I think that's where we are now, where we're doing big numbers. But to go any further needs to be fixed.

Speaker A: Yeah, you need to be ultra tight.

Speaker B: Yeah, you need to be ultra tight. And that's what we are doing now. We're getting ultra tight so we can push a bit further. But we would things up if we went further now. Because it's just not dialed.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's like, what stage are you in? And I love the around, Steve. That's the best. When you be scrappy and you're super profitable and. Yeah. Small team.

Speaker A: And I love that too.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But it's. Sooner or later, you're forced to just look at the little pieces.

Speaker B: It's got to be done, mate. It's got to be done.

Speaker A: I call it the cleansing. Every quarter. Ish. You have to look at everything. And you cleanse.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You cleanse the company of procedures. Uh, and you have to cleanse them of the B players. Yep. Like, there's. No matter how tight you are with hiring, there's always B players that slip through. And just. I had a situation with it today. It's just unfortunately, um. Love working with her. She's great. She's smart, she's bright, she learns. But just for whatever reason, when we do get a refund request, it's someone that work with her. And I'm like, I can't have this any. And, you know, you give her chances. You give her chances. But, you know, and you always compare you the. The way you can really figure out if someone's a B player, you just compare them with an A player.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And when I compare them with an A player in the exact same position, I'm like, I haven't heard about this guy in months. Right. If I go through his EODs, they're perfect. No matter if I look at him or not. I haven't heard a complaint. Uh, he hasn't asked me for anything. And then I look at this other position, this other person, and they're just like, there's always an issue. And you look at the issue, and it's always kind of a little bit. Not always totally their fault, but a little bit. Yes. It's just. Just enough to keep bugging you. And you have to, like, every couple months. Elijah's cleanse.

Speaker B: You've got to find them, man. Yeah. This is one big thing I've learned because I get. As soon as there's a red flag.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, I remember this guy on my old team, man, in the old business. Hell, we should have just fired him. But it's always.

Speaker A: You should have fired him before. Yeah.

Speaker B: It just goes on and on and on. Some what? You know, but you don't do it. But I think I've learned that. I think you've learned now to spot the signs and just get them out

Speaker A: yeah, just get them out before it gets even worse.

Speaker B: Get them out.

Speaker A: And also it's like. And then when you're. And then you, okay, I want to hire a replacement, it's going to cost me also time.

Speaker B: Yeah, you could just get cut them out.

Speaker A: And even then when I fired him, I'm like, super nice. I'm like giving them a month or two of extra pay. Like, okay, you're not going to work in this company anymore, but you're going to get paid for a month or two longer so you can find something else. Just because also I want them to be not super bummed out or in a situation where they're getting into financial trouble, but I'm just like, hey, you gotta get me out. And same goes for systems. Like, we have like our internal trainings are everything. Like the moment there's a procedure, there's going to be a document with a loom video and it's all going to be documented. But then over time it becomes too convoluted, too big. There's like too many random procedures that can be simplified already. So every couple months you. At least that's the way I do it. I have to go through the internal training and I'll make it tighter, make it smoother, shorter. So for every new person to come in to not have to be trained for like weeks, but just a couple days till they're, till they're able, uh, to do their job properly. But I think like that you can continue to be, to be ultra tight and bulletproof with everything without being too convoluted and to have crazy procedures to restrict creative thinking too much and. But I do like what you said is like the round stage is the best.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Where you're just like, let's see what works and let's just let it rip. Do you have people that are on an executive level push against your ideas to keep you in check, so to speak? Do you have someone to counterbalance you?

Speaker B: I used to in the old company. Mhm. I don't now, but I, I do. I mean I do now that I've hired Usman.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Because he really is, you could call him the sales director. But he's really, you know, he's, he's actually more than that. He's. Because even before we worked together, we were kind of friends and he would push me and challenge me and he was like, do you want to scare. I was like, no, I don't want to scale. He was like, you should scale. You've got a massive edge. You've done all this stuff. Come on. Like, you should sort your out. I was like, oh, okay, okay. He was like, what's your plan for this? I was like, I don't really have a plan. He was like, you should have a plan. So he. And I think that's why I wanted to hire him, because he's a good guy, he truly cares and he's very good at what he does. And he's just like the missing piece of the puzzle. And I think now that we've got him, we will do a lot better and go a lot further and it will be a cleaner journey as well. You know, when it comes to selling a business, if you were going to buy a business, you would want it to be one thing, stable. So if you want to build a great business, you've got to make it stable.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: For you. And if you want to sell it, of course as well. But even by building it to sell you, then you really, you don't want to sell it because it's such a great business.

Speaker A: You know, that's kind of the, the mind behind it. It's like if you really want to sell it, make it so good, you don't even want to sell it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That Osman guy, what was his situation before? Was he working in a different company? Did you have to poach him away? Was he just not doing anything? And is he now exclusively with you guys or does he still have his hand in other.

Speaker B: What's the word? He is, um, ah, fractional. Okay. Yeah. So he's not just in with us, he's in with a small handful of people. Yeah.

Speaker A: Does that, does that work? Can't. Does he?

Speaker B: About to find out.

Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Do you. Because I feel like sometimes it's hit or miss, but that's just my experience. And of course, I don't know him. He might be crushing it anyways.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I'm like, to a degree, they need to be bought in enough. But then on the other hand, also look at my cmo, Robin. He's not. We're not the only offer that he works in. But it doesn't feel like that. It feels like wordy, literal only offer.

Speaker B: That's what you need.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And then he just, he just goes all in. And I, uh, don't even know how many other offers he's in. Might be 10, might be just two others. Yeah, but he's like, he's a beast. He's just all day Sunday, Monday, doesn't fucking matter. Christmas, birthday. He's on It. He's on it. And it's. That's one of the signs for me. Um, and I'll be curious about you. In my company, one of the first things you learn, whether you're a VA or head of sales, is over communication. Like, over communicate. Never give me fractional context on something. When you message me with a question, um, just make sure you give me all the info so I don't have to waste my time to reply back with like, what, what about this? What's this? And like, over communicate. Like, if you're going to miss a deadline, don't just miss it, but like, communicate ahead of time for us. That's so, so, so important. Is that something that is valuable in your company as well? If so, how valuable is it?

Speaker B: It's immensely valuable, man. Communication is number one. It's absolutely number one. Obviously, you just don't know what's going on. It's critical, man.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's good to know. How do you communicate? Mostly Slack, WhatsApp.

Speaker B: Mainly WhatsApp with Slack as a bit of a hedge. So WhatsApp is more to chat, Slack is more to track what's being done.

Speaker A: Love it.

Speaker B: Same, I would say.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we have the same. I do most of it on WhatsApp.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: Voice Message Manager team.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then slack is for EODs.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: All kinds of procedures. Some of the. Some of the special leads land in their payment info and so on and so forth. How that's interesting. Do you think that this is something I ask everybody that is at an extremely high level? Do you think anybody can build a business?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: What do you think is necessary for someone to build a business?

Speaker B: So many things. So many things. Well, when you asked me that question, I was just thinking about some of the stupid people I've known in my life and they just don't have any of it. Uh, they don't have the belief, they don't have the focus, they don't have the creativity. They don't have. They're just not. They're just not what you need to be. To be. To be very successful. I'm talking about very successful, though. Like, yeah, you know, to make 5, 10, 15k a month. I think most people could be taught how to do that. Most. Not all, but most. Yeah, but hell, to do like, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 million. No, most people can't do that because, yeah, you've got to just be a unique weird.

Speaker A: You gotta. Human weird.

Speaker B: You gotta be, you know, you got

Speaker A: to be borderline yeah, actually, yeah.

Speaker B: You've just got to be obsessed, man.

Speaker A: Yeah, obsessed is the right word. Obsessed, the right word. Whereas I even have to think, I think um, between 1 and 10 million is actually the hardest spot to be in per year. That's at least what everybody that is above 10 million tells me. They're like, why would any sane person want to be in the 1 to 10 million a year realm if they, if uh, being at the 10 million-plus is so much easier?

Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know if that's true. And the reason that I say that is because to get above 10mil a year you've got to have a very dialed in team. And if you have a massive team, you have a lower profit margin and technically you have more complexity. Right. Whereas when you're a bit smaller, like 2, 3, 4 ish mil, you can have a tiny team, a much higher profit margin, less complexity, more control. So I m think it changes from business to business, man. It's a good point. You know, I think it just depends, you know. Some people I know have like a little lifestyle business. Some people are more kind of where we are at now. Pretty big, but not huge. Not a corporation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then people have the corporations and I think they can all work, but it's just like what do you want? You know, do you, do you want more? What's your focus on? Right. Net profit or maybe exit in one day or revenue or to be the biggest and the best. What, where's your focus?

Speaker A: Mine is I would say net profit plus being the biggest and the best things. And the best. I do get some, some satisfaction from knowing I've mastered a skill and I'm known for that. Which is funny because you would think it's like, oh, I'm fine as long

Speaker B: as I make money.

Speaker A: Which is true. But I do also like to know that people know, okay, this is the guy that we can ask when we have this problem. You know what I mean? I do get some sort of satisfaction from the, from the fact that people look at you as the go to person for something.

Speaker B: M. That's cool.

Speaker A: What about you?

Speaker B: For me it's just long term wealth really. I would say I don't think this is ever going to happen. But if the info business ever stops being a thing, I want to be one of the guys where it's like, well, it's completely fine because I own, oh yeah, 100 properties. You know, I just want to be solid.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: My focus is on just being as solid as possible. Outside of the info business. So that the info. Because really for me it just feeds. The info business is just there to feed the wealth.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: As such. So I guess you could say net profit. I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. I do have this um, it's fee, it's a feeder, it's the start, the catalyst that starts it all and then from there you just feed all the other things. So eventually you could just purely live off the passive income. Yeah, you still have the info thing because it's the most fun and it does give you active income on top of that.

Speaker B: It is really fun. I remember some ovens once said this thing, he said, uh, you've got to back an info business with an asset. Because he was like an info business is not an asset, it's a cash flow vehicle.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So you've got to either put that cash into a software, put that cash into real estate and you've got to back it with an asset of your choice. And it's always the guys that don't do that that get. Yeah.

Speaker A: So I've seen a lot of those guys.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've seen a lot of kids get into wealth way too quickly. They buy the car, they buy the place, they buy a chains which is like the most investment ever. Like even more retarded than watches.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and then because I've seen a lot of info business just do well because of luck. Right kind of model, right kind of sexy idea that is highly right now. You know, the drop shipping at the right time, the crypto at the right time, the NFT at the right time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then after two years it tanks. And even if you make like 2 or 3 million a year for two years in a row, that's whatever 5, 6 million over a lifetime over 40, 56 years, that's nothing. That's like a shitty fogging income. Um, how dumb can someone be and still make 10, 15k a month?

Speaker B: You can be pretty dumb. I think. I, I, I, I really do, man. I really do. You know, I think where's the boundary? I think the boundary is like 50, 50amonth profit. Wow. I, I think above 50amonth profit you've got to be Smarter. I think 0 to 50, I think more or less anyone can do that. If you really know, really know what you're doing. Yeah, I reckon. Yeah.

Speaker A: When do you think is a business a real legitimate business? Because when I asked earlier who can start a business, you said not everyone, but almost everyone can make 50k.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: When do you consider something a legitimate business?

Speaker B: I consider It a legitimate business when. When it's got like what legitimate businesses have, like a stability. Ah, a actual really good pro, uh, product, you know, a product that's had a lot of time and energy and love and thought and customer results put into it. Right. So actual really great product, a team, you know, it's not a real business if it's one person. You know, it doesn't have to be a massive team, doesn't have to be departmentalized, but it's got to be a very good team of a players in the right seat that love you, love the customers, love the mission. You've got to have a mission statement. You've got to have a brand, you know, you've got to just do those extra things that you don't have to do to make 50 to 100k a month, you know. So it's just the stability things really. I. I would say. Yeah.

Speaker A: Just saying. What's your take on following your passion?

Speaker B: Oh, God, I don't know how to answer that. What do you think?

Speaker A: Uh, I think following your passion is for 99% of people, perfect way to go broke.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Fully honest. My passion was always music. I wanted to become a metal musician. And if I had followed that path up until now, I'm 35, 34 years old. Yeah. I would probably still be broke, let alone have made as much money as I did. Um, it's extremely difficult and I think in the best case scenario, in the best, best, best case scenario, you live your dream, but that's like 0.00% of, 0.1% of the time.

Speaker B: It just depends what you want.

Speaker A: Exactly. And in the worst case scenario, not only will you not succeed, but it destroys your passion with it. Because your passion goes from this thing that you do to be happy outside of your regular work to this chore that you have to do. You have to do it over, you have to do it every day. So, uh, it kind of just becomes this duty, this piece of work instead of this passion that gets you out of it. So what I did is I found something that I'm interested in. Sure. I'm not bored by what I do. And, um, I made sure that that thing that I'm interested in is extremely lucrative and it's scalable and it gives me a lever that every time I get better at it, I make more money out of it. And then I use that money to feed my passion, which is, by the way, my amount of passion that I feel for what I'm doing is increasing the more I Get out of it, because I'm fucking good at it. Yeah. So passion doesn't necessarily just come right away. It comes with the feedback that you're getting, the financial feedback, the feedback with people watching your content, the feedback with your clients saying, hey, this is great, you changed my life. So you feel more and more passionate about that. But then ultimately, you know, like, what are my passions? Like playing video games and playing guitar. I could do this as much as I want right now. And I'm still rich.

Speaker B: You know what? So I stay in touch with a couplers musicians that I used to DJ with, just the ones that are still going, still full time, still doing very well. I was chatting to one of them the other day and he was saying, dude, Covid put like 80% of DJs back in full time jobs, you know, so like most DJs didn't recover. They were just, um. And these were some, some pretty big names as well that are now back in an office job.

Speaker A: Jesus.

Speaker B: You know, which is. I'm so thankful that that wasn't me because it probably would have been me, you know, if I didn't have trading in the info business and I was just a musician. I would have been. And I probably would have gone back to work after that and I'd probably just be in a shitty job right, right now and I have no skills. I didn't. I went to uni for, for audio production. So at best I might be, I don't know, a cameraman and an audio guy, who knows? But for me, I've always followed my passions, but I don't think I'm, I'm a good example because I think there's been luck in there as well. So my passion was skateboarding and I tried to monetize it at a time when money didn't matter because I was so young. Graffiti. I tried to monetize it with the magazine, but thankfully it was a time when money wasn't important and it failed. And that's fine. Music I kind of did all right with, to be honest. Two, three K a month. I could at least live and do the passion. But, uh, as money became more important, I hated it. I hated having to produce, I hated having to dj. I hated having to accept gigs that I didn't want to play. So my passion for that passion went down, down, down, down, down, down. Thankfully, I found trading and trading became a massive passion that I really did love. And I made more money through that. Not a huge amount. The info business became a passion and that's Made me millions and millions, um, a lot of bloody money. So I've always followed my passions.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: But I think I've been lucky though, to. To pick the right ones later. Yeah, yeah. I made, I chose passions that happened to make a lot of money, you know. So I think if you're going to follow your passion, just understand the unit economics of your passion.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If it's music, well, just think with the brain. Like even unless you're the top 1%, the other 99% are pretty much, you know, like. So just whatever your passion is, just think about it like one of my cousins is a fairly famous, uh, uh, cricket, uh, cricket player.

Speaker A: Oh.

Speaker B: You know, doesn't make a massive amount, but makes, makes a decent amount and loves what she does. And I hope that that continues. But if you're going to follow your passion, just make sure it's a passion that will make you wealthy. And if it won't make you wealthy, don't follow your passion.

Speaker A: That's, that's a, that's a very, very good way of saying it, basically. Yeah. If it won't make you wealthy, find something else that makes you wealthy.

Speaker B: So, yeah.

Speaker A: And then pursue the passion if, if

Speaker B: you want to be wealthy though. Because I, and this blows my mind, but there are some people out there that actually don't mind and okay with being normal. And uh, sometimes I actually envy them.

Speaker A: Sometimes for two minutes to two minutes and then you're like, nah, I have that. You have that too. It's so funny.

Speaker B: I do.

Speaker A: I'm like, I'm like passing by a 7 11. I'm like, if I worked at that 7 11, man, I would just smoke weed every day, listen to Guns N Roses. I would probably have a bong stash in the back.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To just take a smoke break and

Speaker B: just have the life.

Speaker A: Eat Cheetos all day. No. Yet here I am, I'm going to the gym, doing 10k steps on my walking desk. Treadmill. I'm having a team. I'm making millions. No, I fucking love what I'm doing.

Speaker B: You've got to pick your battle.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, some people, some people are just obsessed with, with building. I mean, like, I think, you know, Iman Gadzy, I think he's just psycho level, um, focused and surprise, surprise, he's one of the biggest wealthiest guys, you know. So some people just have that unstoppable drive, you know. And surprise, surprise, they are the biggest guys, uh, out there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, some people have it, some people don't.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny. It's. It's the drive that, that, like, the moment you catch up with some of them, they already have, like two, three steps ahead.

Speaker B: Yeah. And.

Speaker A: And that's pretty crazy. And, um, I've. I had that drive for a very, very long time. And then I paused for these two, three years where you have to figure out the cold traffic. Yeah. And I still feel that those two, three years where I didn't make organic, like, it takes a long time to rebuild up the momentum. But the thing is, I have the drive, so I don't care. I'm in for a long run anyways. And it just feels so amazing. Like every single video you publish, every single podcast you do, it's just so good.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Um, one more thing I wanted to ask you for the average person, regular person, what's your advice for those folks to get to their first 10k a month asap?

Speaker B: Get a copy of my book.

Speaker A: On Amazon.

Speaker B: On Amazon, on Audible. And fundamentally, I mean, that's a shameless plug. All right. Like that. I'm gonna give you two answers. Answer number one is the shameless answer. Buy my book, watch my YouTube, you know, and, and just learn. Like, learning is the first step. That's like the shameless answer. Another answer is learn. You've got to learn whether it's from me, whether it's from you, whether it's from anyone, the start. Because look, if, if you knew how to make 10k a month, you'd already be making 10k per month. So the fact that you are not making it should prove to yourself that you don't fucking know and you need to know. So you have a knowledge gap and you can either go and find that knowledge, you're probably going to have to pay for it, but just somehow go and get that bloody knowledge and then take action. And if you get the knowledge and you take action, you make money. There's. It's like a. It's a formula, you know? And if you're not making money, you do not have some knowledge or you're not taking some action. It's. It's, it's that simple. And that goes for every number as well. 10k a month, 100k a month, 500k a month, billion a month. If you're not there, you either not. You either don't know something or you do know it, but you're not doing it. It's that simple.

Speaker A: It's actually really simple. Breakdown of it. Never heard it that way, but it's true.

Speaker B: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker A: Um, mate, we've. We've learned where you come from. We've learned about your mindset. I've learned a ton. I've learned so much. The idea behind your creativity, where it comes from, how you created teams, how to exit, what to look out for. By the way, that was really, really helpful.

Speaker B: The.

Speaker A: The things you need to have if you want to exit ever. Not that I'm planning on, but yeah, dude, you.

Speaker B: You should come to the Info to exit challenge. Like you would.

Speaker A: You would.

Speaker B: Literally, you would learn. So sick. You really should.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we'll plug it and of course I'll make sure to be there as well. And uh, last words of yours, anything else you want to mention?

Speaker B: I think we just ended in. In a really great place, man. M. Just, uh, that. That last question that you asked there. Because there'll be people watching this right now that are either new or they're making some. They want to make more or they're making a big amount and they want to make more. So if I could give anyone any advice, you know, if you're not where you want to be, find someone who is. Pay for their knowledge and take action on the knowledge and be patient. And if you do those things, you're gonna get there. It's a matter of time.

Speaker A: Easy peasy. How can people find you? How can they reach out to you if they want?

Speaker B: Uh, Instagram is just my name. Uh, YouTube. Uh, Instagram is the best place. You know, if you message me on Instagram, I'll definitely get it. Leave me a Nice comment on YouTube. Love it. Subscribe to the channel so I can get to 100k faster.

Speaker A: Let's do it.

Speaker B: And come to the Info to exit challenge on May 5th.

Speaker A: Hell yeah. We'll link all of it below. Of course. Uh, Will, thanks for your time. You're a legend, man. It's been a pleasure, man. Big thank you, by the way. Sick place.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Really beautiful.

Speaker B: Appreciate it.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening, folks.

Speaker B: Bye bye.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for watching slash listening. I appreciate the hell out of you. If you haven't done so yet, drop a five star rating on itunes. Spotify. If you're watching this on YouTube, drop a comment, tell me how awesome I am and how great the white shirt looks on William. And drop a like as well. Appreciate the hell of you. Hey.

Speaker B: Of course.

Speaker A: Hey. I never asked for this. Subscribe if you haven't done so yet because I have more insane episodes coming up with even more insane guests that I guarantee you will love. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: For everything.

Speaker A: I appreciate the living hell out of you and see you in the next episode.