The Business of Digital: Episode 36 - Connected Commerce - What's working

Speaker A: The latest technology, the CD ROM computer. This is a multimedia system. Internet is that massive computer.

Speaker B: Welcome to the business of digital podcasts. Presented by IAB Canada. In a market reshaped by privacy, first party data and shoppable everything, retail media has moved from an experimental line to a core growth engine, connecting on site, off site, in store and CTV with measurable outcomes. This episode focuses on what's working in Canada right now. Cleaner proof of incrementality in store, accountability, data, collaboration via clean rooms and offsite CDV expansion that actually drive sales and not just awareness. Today we're joined by the chairs of IAB Canada's Retail Media Committee. With Melissa Savage from Air Miles, John Fanous from Google, and Mischka Mancini from Canadian Tire. We'll explore how advertisers and retailers are making the channel perform and what the Canadian ecosystem needs next to scale responsibly. So before we begin, I'd like you guys to introduce yourself. Let's start with Melissa first.

Speaker C: My name is Melissa Savage. I am from airmiles. My role here is Director of Media. So I lead all of our media strategy, execution and planning.

Speaker B: All right, John, Great.

Speaker D: Uh, I'm with Google and YouTube Canada. Uh, I lead the team that gets to work with the largest omnichannel retailers in Canada. We work across search, YouTube, display, programmatic, connected TV and then in addition to that, I also run our retail media strategy and commerce media strategy in Canada.

Speaker A: Mishka, um, and I'm Mishka Mancini. I, uh, head up our media sales and partnerships team at Triangle Retail Media, which essentially represents all of the banners across Canadian Tire Corporation and have the privile of working with the team that, uh, partners with all of our brands and agency partners.

Speaker B: Thank you everybody. Now I think we'll start with the first question because I feel like when we talk about retail media today, it's been changing a lot. So we're changing the way we refer to this to now connected Commerce. I'd like to kick off by asking you why you all think that this is, uh, appropriate.

Speaker C: Um, Melissa, as we started out in the retail media space, I don't know, however many years ago is it seven, eight years ago here in Canada, Um, it started with, you know, a few retailers who had their own loyalty programs and really in an approach of how to use first party data and drive measurable outcomes. As we've started to see the space evolve, there's more types of commerce that are kind of coming into the picture. So outside of traditional brick and mortar stores, we're now seeing, you know, the instacarts and the door dashes and we've got Uber in the market. We've got, you know, financial programs coming in out of the US and that's where they're seeing a lot of the evolution as well with PayPal and now MasterCard. So it's really interesting to see that expansion of what we consider to be retail media. And I think when we think about it, it's this evolution from just the stores and thinking about the stores to like, what is commerce? Canadians experience commerce everywhere. You know, it's the hotel you just booked, it's the flight that you're on right now. So there's just so much more to it.

Speaker B: John, anything to add to that?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think um, there's been like several rebrandings of this over the, over the years. I remember when it was vendor co op in 2011, then it became retail media, uh, now commerce media. And I think like what it's a recognition of is that uh, not only do retailers own that path to purchase, that last moment of truth between uh, a customer parting with their money and I think like whether it's a financial institution, a lender or credit card, whether it's uh, whether it's a retailer, whether it's last uh, mile delivery service, like today people can shop Costco without shopping Costco through Instacart, for example. So I think there's an acknowledgement that the path to purchase is more diverse and as a result it truly is like commerce, uh, media from the perspective of who owns that first party data, who's able to do anything with it and who's able to bring brands closer to the customer?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, I agree 100%. I think when we started this journey, retail media really helped to establish, uh, the category. It represented the category. But I think as we're kind of taking a step back and the space has evolved over the last several years, I think connected commerce captures really the essence of where we are today, which is really being able to bring media data and commerce together and representation that it is completely intertwined. Um, and that really is where the business is going and the industry is moving towards.

Speaker B: That's great. So I want to check first when it comes to the buyers of media. Right. So has there anything changed with what they're expecting about buying media that's specific for commerce today than it was maybe a year ago?

Speaker D: Yeah, ah, I think everything is imminently more measured today and that's uh, the anchor point of Commerce Media is a cash register. Whether the cash register is virtual, uh, physical, uh, one thing I like to say is the era of faith based marketing went away and that's a good thing. Uh, uh, advertisers who believe in the impact of their investment tend to spend more. And that is I think the reason why commerce media is the fastest growing media channel the world today. Uh, it's not faith based marketing, it's measurement based marketing. Uh, and they can see it, they can feel the results. They put a dollar into a market or a few dollars into a market, they see the impact of what it actually drives for them and they see it everywhere from the physical shelf to the e commerce shelf. So I think like the net net of it is that uh, it's held to a higher bar than uh, traditional marketing. And I think that's the primary driver of the success that we've seen in this space.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I think that layering on the measurement piece, um, using your analogy of a cash register being, um, at the end, I think what it has also done is bring accountability, um, and credibility to the ecosystem which I think has for a very long time more broadly across the digital marketing or just broadly marketing ecosystem, um, in some areas it's been missing.

Speaker C: I mean they answered it all. So I don't know if I have too much more to offer on that front. I mean the accountability piece is huge. I think as we start to see where this industry continues to go, the transparency will become even more important. I think when we launched these retail media networks in the beginning it was a big black box. Now we're starting to get more uh, questions around. Well, if you could approach it in your own way, how would you try to achieve this objective? And I think as we start to see a bit more trust now that there is the accountability and the measurement, we're going to also start to see really cool executions and campaigns coming into market.

Speaker B: All right, so maybe let's dig in a little bit deeper when it comes to measurement. Uh, because I think one of the things that we need to answer for is incrementality. Like what today can a brand do to improve, you know, incrementality or at least measuring incrementality.

Speaker D: So I'm happy to share a thought. Uh, I think like on the topic of incrementality, I'll answer your question, but I'll also say brands have to also uh, not hold digital to the highest bar when they hold other media to a less high bar. Uh, and I'll pick on like flyer for example where uh, the flyer is both like a process and a media channel, the process is like alive and well. The media channel for most markets across the country is dead. So I think like I don't hear about too many like incrementality tests on flyer if I'm being honest.

Speaker B: That's interesting.

Speaker D: Yeah. Now on the digital side because you can run GEO experiments, because you can run audience holdouts, you can get a much clearer sense of what the incremental lift is off of the uh, investment that you're making and that I give like full applause to. I think uh, it's on both the uh, Commerce Media Channel to elevate their offering to sort of welcome the stress testing of their programs. It's also on the vendor or brand to ask the question.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker D: Because in the absence of asking it you're going to default back to probably clicks and impressions. And that's not also a great uh, level of like belief building for an organization.

Speaker A: I would say like on the conversation of incrementality it's certainly something that's very um, active in terms of discussions with um brands that we're working with. I think across retailers um, there's a lot more demand on wanting to understand the incrementality that they're able to drive with their investment. So I would say for a brand that wants to get started in that capacity it doesn't have to be complicated. It could be really simple by using an a B test or a GEO split um, and being able to tie it back to sales outcomes using the retailer's data to be able to um, measure the impact that they want to um, assess essentially.

Speaker D: Mishke do you find because like CT has such a rich first party data set, you're in a unique position to do that?

Speaker A: I think so for sure because we're able to connect the Triangle ID to the transaction. I think we're certainly in a privileged position um relative to the broader ecosystem but I think Loblaw is also um, doing that within their ecosystem. Costco obviously whole Home Depot. So I think um, for any of the retailers that have some form of a loyalty uh program in place, I think it certainly places them in a position of advantage or privilege. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: I think as we start to um, see more partnerships coming into the market too and integrations across like we'll also hopefully see brands asking more from the commerce media networks like more partnership and more integration because it's great to be able to see one retailer's performance and your incremental incrementality there. But what is that for the whole market? Right. It's making an assumption based on this one retailer's incremental lift. But how can we start to peel it out and understand, okay, for all of the retailers that I'm at, this is the incrementality that I'm seeing. And that's where some of the wider, like loyalty programs you're seeing in the US become really successful. And same with why PayPal's integration in the market was so impactful when they launched it, because they can see all of the transactions and all of the performance. And so how do we start to work as a group and bring out, um, the best of each other? Right. Like you will have Lyft in this store. Did it drive it everywhere?

Speaker B: You brought this up earlier as well in terms of moving away from black boxes, um, when it comes to retail media as a whole. So, so if in store is moving from black box to measurable media and we're talking about incrementality, but I think we also need to talk about signals. I mean, what are the signals or methods that you trust right now?

Speaker C: Yeah, so, uh, this one I think goes a little bit back into what you were saying of evaluating all channels kind of equally digital out of home. When you think about what it looks like regularly when you're doing an out of home buy, you know, for your brand, it's very different than what we expect from an in store retailer, screens. And so for me, I think it's great that some of the retailers are starting to dig in and get more signals and start to become more measurable. But what I'd love to see is how can we again work together to drive results or signals from all of out of home and all of the screens. Like what is the multiplier for being in store? But what about the screens outside of the store or in different places? I think retail media has been able to evolve so quickly because of the first party data, because of the access to kind of everything, but it's now being held to that higher standard, which I don't know, how can we start to share some of those signals with the rest of the out of home market or understand that a little bit more widely. So I don't know, it just feels like it's kind of lopsided right now. We need to start to even it out that everybody gets similar access.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you. And I think there's like two parts that need to be addressed. Um, and perhaps through, you know, IAB championing the Cause one is around just the standardization of measurement like as the basics. Right. You know every retail it makes it really difficult for brands to even be able to compare apples to apples from one retailer to another because that standardization at this moment is to some degree absent. Um, different retailers will use different methodologies to do different uh, measurement for brands. I think the second piece is around what you're saying which is the interoperability. So how do we um, come together in a way that a brand can truly understand the impact it's able to drive by having media in market through multiple retailers. What is the net outcome of that? Um, and I think that requires infrastructures like clean rooms alongside having standardized measurement, um, or standardization around our measurement that all of the retailers um, agreed to participate in.

Speaker D: Yeah, I tend to say like uh, if there's one unifying element to all commerce media channels or at least the successful ones, it's that they offer things to their advertisers which the advertisers could not do independent of them. Ah. And that's why it creates these like super profitable offerings for retailers, uh, or uh, for these media channels. So I think like there's three things that are pretty unique to these uh, these like successful media networks. One is they sit on a ton of quality first party data, signed in users, lots of people online, lots of people in store being tracked through transaction data. Uh number two they uh, often have like shopping feeds, product catalogs online, uh, that unlocks the most profitable, best performing ad units for the most part online. And the third one is the signals that you mentioned. So the ability to know whether or not the advertising worked, uh, so that we aren't just coming back to like impressions or sort of like lowest common denominator metrics. So I think like it's on the commerce media network to sort of tell their story but then to also activate the kind of signals that allow us to have like a true omnichannel perspective. Um E commerce is easy to track, everybody tracks it stores. Uh, there's sort of like a graduated plane of options for where commerce media networks are able to start to leverage measurement. I think like at the very end of that is geo experiments with all the upsides and downsides that come along with that. But along the way you have like uh, abilities to track store visits, abilities to track store level transaction data. Uh, we're over dated for the most part. Uh and I think it's about finding the right measurement story, uh, or strategy for the advertiser.

Speaker B: All right, that's really good and I think it's great that you mentioned clean rooms because that flows into my next question. And I, uh, think, John, you're right. There's a lot of first party data that's involved here, but we also need to be mindful about privacy and also these standards.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: So when we think about privacy, we think about clean rooms. Right. So what, what are, what are you seeing? Where are you seeing true value for clean rooms in this space? For connected commerce? Is, uh, it in planning, activation, measurement?

Speaker C: I can start. Um, I think it's all of them. When you think about planning, you know, you're trying to decide who the right consumer is to hit. Right? Is it, you know, I think where we started out in this industry, adults 25 to 49, that was like, we all use that at some, um, now it's okay, well, these are the purchasers of my product. This is what they look like. These are the types of, if you do, you know, a partnership with a media company like a Rogers or a Bell, these are the types of shows that they like to watch. These are the types of connections that they're making. Kind of outside of my store, the planning piece here is really like, what else can I do? Could I do, you know, an integration into a show that we know these consumers highly index against. How can we start to show our commercials during these types of things and really reach our customers in the moments that matter for them. So like, planning is a huge opportunity, I think, and like understanding your reach across all of the networks. Ideally that's what a clean room could offer is okay, well, I know I can hit this across my network, but if I wanted to add the Triangle Network or I wanted to add Roger's network, I could easily do that mix and start to kind of scale, scale up. And that's where like the activation piece also comes in, is like, we've had such a truck, like a struggle here in Canada scaling outside of just using your, your media on Facebook or whatever else. Right. Like it's, it's very clear that we can only use first party data in walled gardens because that's the easiest place. But if we can start to activate in the clean rooms, we can actually maybe start to give more power back into the Canadian media companies as well. Right. Like, the reason a lot of us aren't able to run on that inventory is it's really difficult to use first party data on their networks. Clean rooms give us the opportunity to kind of merge all of that together and understand, okay, I can reach everybody across all of these Channels and it just gives us more, so many more capabilities if we can start to get through the harder part, which is like partnership and all the legal contracts to make sure we can do overlaps and all that. Fun stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree, uh, with Melissa. I think it really, it does help with planning activation and measurement. I think, you know, you talked about this, uh, on the planning side. It's also helping you better understand the audience overlaps when you're working with brands that may also have, for example, you know, their own loyalty programs in place and being able to hold out those that they would already be able to reach per se, let's say, for that particular brand and those that would be net new because of the retailer's ecosystem. Um, it also really helps with being able to have um, a clearer picture of your um, customer within the different ecosystems. You know, Melissa talked about the Rogers and Bell, um, ecosystem. What shows are they watching? Put that also into the context of the different retailers they work with. You can have a more um, shared understanding or more complete picture of your customer in terms of their behavior beyond just the fact that they are your brand's customer. So what are the categories, the subcategories, adjacent categories that they're shopping? Um, and what does that overlap look like across uh, multiple uh, retailers?

Speaker C: Yeah, and they're not, they're not just shopping at your store. I think that's what we lose in a lot of the like really focused retail media conversations is me as a shopper. Yes, I go to Canadian Tire, I do my shopping there.

Speaker A: But you also watch.

Speaker C: But I'm also going to Farm Boy to pick up my groceries and I'm going into Old Navy. Like those are all connected commerce experiences where I'm shopping a whole bunch of different things kind of in one go. How can you start to connect and plan? Because I'm multifaceted in where I buy. Um, so it's hard just seeing one point in that picture when the clean rooms could offer us so much more that I think we've not even scratched the surface of.

Speaker A: And I think we talk about connected commerce. So we're thinking about brands. Let's say we sell in our ecosystems, right. For the most part, or serve. But you know, with clean rooms you also really expand the opportunity for, let's call it non endemic brands. So think about, you know, an automotive client that is going after, you know, the avid hockey fan. You could do that with Rogers and the NHL. But you can also then look at signals from, let's say sport check, for example, um, and what you're able to essentially do is through a privacy safe, uh, infrastructure you're able to understand those that were exposed to the ad, but then actually those that may have either uh, built a car online or those that may have actually made the purchase, uh, by being able to in a safe and compliant way match those IDs, um, at an aggregated anonymous level. So it really opens up the opportunity um, to be able to take Connected Commerce to that next level.

Speaker D: Yeah, plus one. Uh, I think the only thing I would add is I get really excited about it from m a measurement standpoint. I think uh, regardless of whether the brand and, or retailer and or commerce uh, network, whether they want to do it one on one with a partner, whether they want to go through a third party clean room, just do it like deliver on the promise of what we're offering here, which is the ability to actually impact people at that critical moment of purchase decision. So I think like if, if the comfort level is higher because it's a clean room and it's uh, and it's sort of third party, go for it. You're doing right by your advertiser and you'll win bigger budgets in the process.

Speaker B: There was something Mishka said earlier and I think Melissa, you guys were talking about earlier about loyalty which I think is a very strong aspect of what connected commerce should be. But I think what I want to ask is that should loyalty be a core. Should be core to connected commerce rather than just a uh, capability.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think I'll start. Um, you know our program's been around for well over 30 years. I think we were one of the early adopters into the loyalty program kind of scene. Um, but when it comes to all of retail media it's all been keyed on this core component which is loyalty programs. Right. What makes Canada maybe a bit different than the US Is having that first party data through the loyalty program to key in the transaction performance like you saw it with Loblaw and PC Optimum. That's where that one started out was what John said, delivering on the first party data and the measurement of a retail media network. And so as we think about how Connected Commerce comes in, it just makes it more expansive. You've got, yes, you've got retail loyalty programs but then you've also got like ours, which is a coalition loyalty program. You've got travel loyalty programs which is super exciting. I think Marriott announced a few weeks ago as well their media network coming in. And so I think there's a lot of really cool opportunities to start again. You'll hear me just consistently talk about partnership, but like how Marriott can kind of add in, you know, their piece where people are traveling, how often are they traveling, why are they traveling. That's great information to kind of use for the rest of our planning too. So I think it's always at the heart of where this even started and I like it has to be the heart of where it continues to go. Especially as we get more regulation around data privacy, all of the storage and being stewards of first party data, there's going to be a lot more restrictions around that. And so we don't have the same data aggregators they have in the US we're going to rely on loyalty programs.

Speaker A: I would say that um, you know, loyalty data has to be core, um, it is the most accurate view of a customer and the most permissionable, um, view of the customer. But it also needs to be connected. Right? So not all uh, the exposure is happening just within the ecosystem of the retailer. And so therefore it needs to be connected whether it's through clean um, rooms, identity graphs or partner data. We need to be able to bring that to life so that you can connect the full journey, whether it's on site to then off site, um, to be able to have a full picture of the shopper beyond the boundaries of just the retailer ecosystem.

Speaker D: Uh, in every retail media campaign I've ever seen since 2011, anytime we overlaid retail first party data or commerce network first party data, three things happened. User engagement went up, uh, influence ability of the audience went up and cost per acquisition went down. Which if I net out those three things it means we're doing a better job of talking to a better customer on behalf of brand. So I think like contained within that first party data, like the jewel in that is loyalty data, it's, it's the best performing of it. And I think like at its heart Commerce Media is about telling the vendor's story through the retailer's voice to the retailer's customer. And I think like that's what creates that lift engagement and influenceability in the reduction of cost per acquisition. So I think like the answer is yes. Like it's, it's an incredible part of creating, creating this value proposition and delivering on the promise of this retail media network.

Speaker C: And as consumers start to expect more personalized experiences kind of everywhere they're going, it'll continue to be important of understanding this. I just did this thing, please don't show me this again. Uh, or I bought this. Stop, leave Me alone. So I think it takes a little bit more of the consumers into account as well of what do they want to see. Right. So then we're also, like John said, we're being more targeted. We're able to personalize the experiences for them and hopefully, I mean the reason why, you know, consumers sign up for loyalty programs is for more value back. So how are we driving more value through shopping journeys and expanding what they're able to get back from us? Right, yeah.

Speaker D: You almost want like a successful commerce media ad, uh, to feel almost incidental to, to the user. Uh, we've run a B testing before creative that looks like the retailer's brand, uh, and less so. Like the advertiser's brand tends to perform better because it's being targeted towards the retailer's first party data. Um, that sounds cool. It's also like not necessarily surprising. Right? Like advertising that doesn't feel like advertising is often going to be a fairly successful media channel. So I think like there's something around catering to the unique nature of the customer on the other end of the screen that we see through commerce media.

Speaker B: Now let's talk about retail media off site because I feel like when you think about some of the media that's used in connected commerce, CTV is part of that discussion. So CTV is gaining traction with retail data. Um, where are you seeing true reach when it comes or true incremental reach by including ctv?

Speaker D: I'm happy to share. Uh, um, so the inclusion of CTV allows us to get closer to that in store experience Canada. Still 80% plus of most transactions still happen in physical retail environments. So you know it's interesting like whenever I think about like the old school version of like advertising, I would say brands spend an incredible amount of money influencing the customer and then divorce themselves from that customer the moment they walk into a physical store.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker D: Uh, and I think like that's where the role of CTV either in store or near a store becomes really important. The value uh, prop there is when I'm in the aisle, can a brand through the retailer communicate effectively to get me to choose their product off the physical shelf? And I think like, you know, that's a pretty damn important like moment to have like your uh, presence in. And we see retailers at different levels of engagement and uh, activation against that. But I think like there's a bit of a leap they have to make around introduction of uh, screens, usage of audio in store, usage uh, of screens around the physical store in the vicinity. So I think all these things are real questions they have to answer in terms of their comfort. But I think there's a bit of a first mover advantage for the retailers that are activating and monetizing that.

Speaker C: Yeah, when it comes to CTV and like the connected TV experience, I think where we continue to struggle a little bit in this market is just being able to actually address that first party data on connected tv. And how do we, how do we meet the CTV providers? Like I said, uh, through clean rooms most likely to be able to activate and customize and personalize those CTV experiences. Um, it's, it's, I would say we're, we're really early. I don't know if there's too many, I mean I'm sure there's a couple in this market that are using their first party retailer data to actually like personalize and customize TV experiences. I think the opportunity that some of the work that's happening in the clean room community will continue to just make that explode. Like next year and probably onwards, like we'll start to see more, especially as Amazon starts really digging in. You've seen out of the U.S. all of the data partnerships that they're making with Netflix and Disney and all of it. So I think as that starts to kind of spread up to Canada as well, you'll start to see, okay, it's a little bit easier to activate now or I can do this through this dsp. Um, I think understanding just the total reach, I mean that's, that's really where it's come down to is anytime we try to add first party data to a CTV buy, it just totally limits the campaign outside of when we use like YouTube. Um, but again you want to try to engage more of those Canadian media suppliers too. And it's just, it's been so tricky. So I think, I think we're early in it and I don't think we're moving very quickly quite yet. But hopefully as you know, some of the first party data suppliers here start to get more comfortable with clean rooms and the idea of overlap and integration. Then we can start to, to see what it actually can do.

Speaker D: Feel free to just use YouTube M as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I mean we do so granted but we love to, we love to um, try to figure out, you know, how to, how to get on that big screen TV as well. And it would be really great to start to understand how all of the TV inventory that we're looking at is performing. Right. Just, just think of it as a, as a total mix instead of like, I need to plan this Roku buy and this YouTube buy and this and this and this. It just becomes overwhelming to you as a brand. And then even as like the agencies and advertisers try to figure out what to do with this, it's even more confusing and especially for the buyer. Yeah, you're like trying to manage 80PMPs and like, oh my God, they're not spending. What do I do?

Speaker D: I'd even also say like, um, the big screen is obviously super important. The little screen in our pockets is also I think even, uh, even just as important. I think, you know, let's take an expansive view of what counts as like uh, an influenceable moment in those stores. Because I agree with you, uh, it. We want to get as close to the customer as possible.

Speaker C: Yeah. We want to reach them everywhere in the journey. So from sitting on your couch at home being like kind of hungry. Oh cool. You know, this is on sale at my local whatever store. And as I start to get closer, maybe I get distracted. I see a uh, McDonald's, I'm like, oh, maybe it'd just be easier to go here. How do you continue to follow through that journey to make sure they follow through for you?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree with everything uh, you guys are saying. I think the measuring of incremental reach continues to be a challenge. But I will say over the last several years as many of the players in the connected commerce space have started to make offsite media available in a more meaningful way as an option for brands where the magic really as we've observed happens is being able to build a multi channel program that really leans into off site Connected TV. YouTube obviously comes to mind for sure. Um, a great performer for us and then being able to stitch that journey from the TV screen to the website to the store, um, and being able to just drive the frequency required, uh, to build the awareness, the consideration and the conversion, um, I think that's, that's where we've seen a lot of success for sure.

Speaker B: Okay, so I mean just to wrap up our podcast today, if we meet again in this room like in six months, what's one standard or partnership you hope Canada has landed? And why. Feel free to jump in at any time.

Speaker A: Um, maybe I'll jump in. It's something that we, certainly the three of us have talked about is um, this idea that um, there's obviously the IAB and MRC retail media, uh, measurement framework, um, you know, being able to actually bring that to life, get all of the commerce media partners, um, within the Canadian ecosystem to align to those standards. I think that would be a huge step forward um, for the industry and it would help us get to a place where over time a brand can begin to compare apples to apples. Because I think right now um, again retailers are measuring things in different ways um, using the same terminologies. And so I would love to see the industry finally come together and work together to help us get there. Um, because I also think it helps to unlock investment opportunities, incremental investment opportunities in the ecosystem. If we're able to create and standardize uh, how we measure media within the connected commerce space,

Speaker D: I really hope we make headway on stores, uh, and on tracking for stores. I still think you know, four and five people, that's where the transaction happens. Uh, and it's even more in certain like high growth categories that are relevant to commerce media networks. So I think like as an industry we have to agree upon like yes, absolutely. Standards, uh, and how are we going to do it in a way that actually is like easily trackable, easy to report, easy to understand, uh, because otherwise uh, there is sort of like one commerce media network that's completely E commerce. So it makes it easy for that platform, makes it really difficult for every other commerce media platform. So I think that's. We don't have a choice. We got to figure that one out.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree there 100% and I think you know, IAB has also done some great work in that capacity as part of their measurement framework. But again it really needs to be adopted, adopted um, by all of the players in the ecosystem to really help the brands have more trust um, and also for the commerce partners to be able to bring more credibility to the space. I agree with you. When I think about all of the omnichannel retailers that we are friends with, um, majority of the transactions are still happening in the stores if you have a store. So we do need to solve for that journey and I think one of the ways is let's look at the standards that have been established. Let's all agree to adopt these standards within a window of time so that brands can have more confidence and invest in the space with confidence um, and know that the measurement will be credible.

Speaker C: Because we're also going to start getting, as we expand this into connected commerce, we're going to start getting new players in this ecosystem as well.

Speaker A: You got it.

Speaker C: And if we don't have those standards or metrics that we can all agree to, you know, somebody like Ah, a PayPal or Klarna is going to come in here and Be like, well, I can do all of it and I don't need any of these other retailers or, you know, something I don't even know, like a, like a Maneris or something coming in and taking in and say, I see it all. Why would you need all of these different pieces? But the definitions are different, the omnichannel component is different. It's just autonomy. It's a huge, it's a huge beast that we have to make sure that we standardize before all of these new types of kind of players come into the market or new types of partnerships. Um, and that's kind of where my, hopefully where we're all being a few more months is continuing to be open to partnership because we're not all going to be able to do this individually. Not one retailer is going to solve this problem. Not one ad tech company is going to solve this problem. It's going to be solved, you know, as an industry, as a group. And whether it's the measurement piece or even the reach component or how are we all managing first party data, et cetera, like it's all through collaboration. And so whether it's collaborating across loyalty programs, you're starting to see a lot more of those partnerships in the market. Um, but even like across media companies and suppliers, like, how do we start getting more partnerships across Bell and Rogers, right, where we can start to combine that inventory and it can maybe be more competitive with some of those other players that kind of have it all in their scope. So I think there's not a specific partnership that I think we really need to land, but I think it's having everybody more open to partnership and collaboration and how can we reach some of these goals together?

Speaker B: All right, Melissa, John, Mishka, thank you

Speaker D: again for your time.

Speaker B: Appreciate it.

Speaker C: Thanks, Paula. Thank you.

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