Breaking the Silence: Men's Mental Health Insights from "The Stealth Bomber" by George Norris

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Speaker 1: Now we've spoken to you a number of times before, 2 - > and the fact that you're eighty four years old and 3 - > you've just written another book. 4 - >

Speaker 2: How many books as this charge? 5 - >

Speaker 3: Now, well, this is my sixth book and I'm about 6 - > to start a seventh. But it's based on fiction. I've 7 - > invented a detective. So I'm going to get into the 8 - > fiction if i can do it. It's very difficult. 9 - >

Speaker 1: Though, So can you tell us a little bit about 10 - > this book that you've just written. 11 - >

Speaker 3: Yes, I'll hold up the cover for you. It's called 12 - > The Stealth Bomber, and then the front cover says, attacking 13 - > Men's mental health and well being. Mental health problems come 14 - > out of nowhere, that's the problem. And it's knowledge and 15 - > strategies for men in life, business and sport to help 16 - > their mental health and well being in high performance, stressful environments. Now, 17 - > the forward has been absolutely brilliantly written. I'm very humbled 18 - > by AFL Hawthorne, Great Peter Swab, who is also the 19 - > director of Umpiring and in the AFL and senior coach 20 - > at Hawthorne for a long while. It's quite humbling, but 21 - > I'm quite flattered. I realized there was a story. I'll 22 - > tell you, which made me realize two years ago, roughly, 23 - > because it took me about eighty months or two years 24 - > to write it, that men's mental health comes to men 25 - > like a self bomber. They don't know it's arriving. It's unseen, 26 - > it arrives, okay, And it's a big problem in the 27 - > world at the moment because men are and they're not 28 - > easily able to talk to others about it. They seem 29 - > to protect themselves. And so I did a lot of 30 - > research on that. But let me tell you a story. 31 - > I was asked. This is what set me off to 32 - > write it. I was asked some years ago now, back 33 - > in nineteen eighty five, really that a friend of mine's husband, 34 - > she said, had some problems and would I help him? 35 - > And I said, yeah, what sort of problems? She said, 36 - > He's depressed and down on the dumps and not motivated 37 - > and worrying, and you know, he's quite concerned. And this 38 - > is before the words mental health actually became a global phrase. 39 - > So I said, okay, I'd seen him, so we'll call 40 - > him Bill. So I saw Bill, and he came in. 41 - > I said, have a coffee. And at the time I 42 - > was going through issues, he had no idea of so 43 - > I said to him, so, how's how's things built? Jill says, 44 - > you're going through some issues by yes, he said, I'm 45 - > not happy. I'm down the dumpson blah blah blah. And 46 - > he went on and I suppose wailed a bit. And 47 - > I said, well, look, let me ask you some questions. 48 - > Do you still have your business? He said yes. I 49 - > said here, you're still married, yes? Are your children still 50 - > with you? Yes? I said, how is your business going? Okay? Yes? 51 - > Do you still own your car? Yes? Do you still 52 - > have your superannuation yes? I said that's interesting. Well, let 53 - > me tell you about a guy I know who lost 54 - > his wife, his business, his children, his superannuation, his savings, 55 - > his house, his building, and his business all in one month. 56 - > He said, my goodness, is he dead? I said, no, 57 - > you're looking at him. That revved him up so much 58 - > he broke down in front of me. He realized he 59 - > had nothing to worry about, but it helped him to 60 - > pull himself up by his footstraps and he went on. 61 - > They actually moved to Queensland and he became the highest 62 - > performing financial advisor in the southeast of Queensland. And that's 63 - > a story. I'm really proud of. But it told me 64 - > a lot about men that they worry often about nothing. 65 - > Unless they've got support around them, they can actually fall 66 - > into an abyss and start to worry shy at shadows, 67 - > if you want to call it like that. Unless they've 68 - > got support around them, and male support who and they're 69 - > open to talking, they fall into trouble. So he had 70 - > no one really to talk to except me. So that 71 - > opened my eyes quite a bit. And in fact, men 72 - > and it's part of what I've written in my book. 73 - > Part of the issue is that I'll just refer to 74 - > my book. Part of the reason or the reason the 75 - > book is dedicated to men's mental health is that research 76 - > shows that males, unlike females, are more loath to ask 77 - > for help, believing they will be judged as weak and 78 - > a failure in life, business, and sport if they ask 79 - > for help. Now, it's interesting research the attitude. This attitude 80 - > can be traced way back to the caveman era, where 81 - > the male was the hunter and brought back the food 82 - > for the female, who was called the gatherer. I was 83 - > looking after the if you liked the home, whatever the 84 - > home looked like, and children, and this was the creation 85 - > of the male being perceived as the hunter or the 86 - > bread winner, and as such being seen to be accountable 87 - > and responsible for the livelihood of the family. Now that's 88 - > not right or wrong, it just is. It's not sexist. 89 - > Suggest is. The sense of pride and responsibility wrongly are 90 - > rightly self permeates through life today, and it's difficult for males. 91 - > And there's a reason why males are loath to be 92 - > seen to be asking for help, for if they do, 93 - > they will perceive themselves to be weak, vulnerable, and a 94 - > failure in life. Now, the paradigm John and Mark, unfortunately 95 - > is being handed down from generation and generation by fathers 96 - > and grandparents meaning well, but not realizing the ramifications of 97 - > their actions. Now in the research that I've then investigated, 98 - > it's interesting that in an AICD magazine in November twenty 99 - > twenty two by Deloitte and Workplace Intelligence in the Workplace 100 - > Well Being, it showed that this is amazing some of 101 - > these statistics. More than forty percent of senior leaders are stressed, 102 - > thirty six percent are exhausted, and almost seventy percent of 103 - > considering quitting. While high performance earned many leaders their senior role, 104 - > the skills that helped them climb the ladder may not 105 - > guarantee them success at the top, they find they're a loon. 106 - > It's a challenge. They can't talk to their direct reports 107 - > about how they're feeling personally or how they may be 108 - > struggling in their role, so they get loan. That's the 109 - > saying lonely at the top. I guess so the executive 110 - > coach corporate coach has therefore, in many cases become a 111 - > professional sounding board, confidante, and even a magic mirror on 112 - > the wall whose skills have seen arise in demand. In fact, 113 - > leaders are dealing with the impact of COVID nineteen still 114 - > and performance challenges, hybrid work arrangements, and significant staff shortages. 115 - > Interesting executive coaching grew thirty three percent globally from twenty 116 - > fifteen to twenty nineteen as demand for coaches and mentors 117 - > as professional listeners and advisors became more critical for senior leaders. Now, 118 - > another issue here is that in the same magazine in 119 - > July that states that many smaller medium businesses this is 120 - > quite sad. Really, A report from Treasury states that many 121 - > smaller meetium business owners have faced high stress periods for 122 - > a long time before and since COVID nineteen and many 123 - > lack the knowledge, self awareness and confidence to seek assistive 124 - > assistance when they needed. Mental health problems are often shown 125 - > as depression, anxiety, and irridibility, and these issues can affect 126 - > decision making, productivity, leadership, personal relationships, especially with spouse, staff 127 - > and friends, and also affect sleep and appetite, so they found. 128 - > The survey found that mental health was a major issue 129 - > for smemes, which represent ninety seven percent of the businesses 130 - > in Australia might add, and which employ around sixty percent 131 - > of the workforce and deliver about thirty three percent of 132 - > private sector productivity. The report shows that SMEs face mental 133 - > bar is in gaining mental health support and lack of 134 - > the strategies to maintain their mental health in life and business. 135 - > Was also reported that thirty one percent of SME owners 136 - > consider mental health and immediate concern, yet thirty percent find 137 - > it difficult to discuss. The report stated that one in 138 - > five of the one thousand people interviewed stated they had 139 - > experienced depression in the past twelve months, forty four percent 140 - > experienced anxiety, fifty five percent felt responsible for the mental 141 - > health and wellbeing of their staff, and sixty one thought 142 - > they could do more relaxing. The bottom line showed that 143 - > there was a lack of understanding among business owners, especially 144 - > that ultimately their energy and mental health will affect their 145 - > business and by extension, their family friends unless they take 146 - > ownership of the issue and take action to get support 147 - > from experience, qualified people Resilience. It was noted as a 148 - > necessary and critical personal trait and important ingred in and 149 - > overcoming mental health issues. One of the issues that's it's 150 - > so crept in finally interestingly enough to sport. Many people 151 - > don't know about this. I heard Chris Fagan talk about 152 - > this after the Grand Final with Brisbane and Geelong when 153 - > he was interviewed on Monday Night on Fox. It's called 154 - > impost syndrome. Many CEOs, many AFL footballers are being promoted 155 - > beyond the level where they get enormous salaries, but deep 156 - > down it's interesting mark. Deep down they don't think they're 157 - > worthy of it. I won't name names, but there's a 158 - > previous footballer who was got on a ten million dollar contract. 159 - > He forfeited the last five million dollars. He didn't want 160 - > it because he couldn't handle the pressure of not being 161 - > able to perform to that standard and getting ridiculed by supporters, 162 - > et cetera, et cetera, the media. There's others more currently 163 - > that can't play because they don't feel they're worthy. So 164 - > paying people all this money. CEOs as well, Mark and 165 - > John are getting crazy money. Like yesterday two CEOs are 166 - > going to be paid seven point eight million dollars each. 167 - > They're going to have trouble. That's why there's a turnover 168 - > of CEOs that don't last long because deep down they're 169 - > not saying this, but deep down they don't think their 170 - > self worth is worth that, so they feel inadequate, they 171 - > feel guilty. And there's five types without going through the lot, 172 - > there's called the perfectionist, the superhuman, the natural genius, the siloist, 173 - > the expert. Men with imposter syndrome often believe that coaching 174 - > and mentoring will make them vulnerable and transparent, and therefore 175 - > can deny themselves the opportunity of achieving their full potential. 176 - > So many of these top people are hiding. And one 177 - > of the issues that's if I can just sort of 178 - > finish this part, if that's probably the way to sum 179 - > it up, is there's an issue at the moment with 180 - > the media. It's massive. Much of the news is not 181 - > news anymore. It's sensational reporting to fill time and space 182 - > for advertising. Many people have now turning it off. I 183 - > know I don't watch it anymore at all. It's fake 184 - > news in many places AI is being used to write. 185 - > I'll even talked to a senior journalists from Channel nine 186 - > from some years ago. It was Bob Hawk's press secretary 187 - > who used to be on Channel nine. He's lost his friends. 188 - > How about that? He can't talk to his friends because 189 - > most of the news is being written by AI and 190 - > he doesn't see their authenticity anymore, so he can't keep 191 - > finding it hard to handle. So it's interesting. In nineteen 192 - > seventy six, in the film Network, Howard be All, the 193 - > newscaster yelled out and it was played by Peter Finch, 194 - > you might recall, and he yelled at I'm as mad 195 - > as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore. Well, 196 - > I know people are turning off the news in droves 197 - > and only living in a bubble, very selectively watching their 198 - > phone with digital headlines and not subjecting their family and 199 - > children to machete attacks and home burglaries and whatever whatever whatever, 200 - > which they can't stop anyway. So it's been polluted. The male, 201 - > especially being the perceived by himself to be the breadwinner, 202 - > is now under attack, and in fact, it goes a 203 - > bit further. It's a a bit of fun, I suppose, 204 - > but it goes a bit further because if you remember 205 - > years ago, men were and still happening, men are perceived 206 - > to be the hunter to find the women of their dreams. Okay, 207 - > so they have to do all the pursuing and often 208 - > are rejected quite badly, and they have to cope with that. 209 - > That's not even being even being discussed. There are records 210 - > out and I can say these because they're fact. Ten 211 - > ces So I'm Not in Love includes lyrics big boys 212 - > don't Cry, and it goes on and on and on. 213 - > Well that's so bad, but they're still playing it. Bruno 214 - > Mars's so grenade. He sings the lyrics I'll stand in 215 - > front of a train for you. Can you believe that 216 - > that's true? And they're allowing that to go to air 217 - > that these lyrics are help not helping men's mental health. 218 - > So what I've tried to do is come up with 219 - > some ways to help them. And one of the things 220 - > is the paradigm of the type of the iceberg that 221 - > the Titanic hit is See, the Titanic didn't sink because 222 - > of what it saw and because of what it hits 223 - > above the water. It sank because the iceberg, seven eighths 224 - > of the iceberg under the water cut it open and 225 - > it sank. So what you've got, what we've got to 226 - > do to help men's mental health is is not attack 227 - > what's happening, but why and why is under the water? 228 - > What is above the water? Why is under it? So 229 - > unless you, unless anyone men especially look at themselves in 230 - > the mirror and see why is this happening to me? 231 - > You can't fix it. So part of the book then 232 - > goes on with the manual, and I'll discuss that in 233 - > some issues. If you'd like to ask me some questions. 234 - >

Speaker 2: The why so what would be some of the examples 235 - > of the why that you're in your research charge, that 236 - > you saw and that you needed. 237 - >

Speaker 3: To Okay, Well, some of the reasons are are pretty basic, 238 - > to be quite frank, A lot of the problems are 239 - > to do with their upbringing. You see me included, we're 240 - > told when we're kids, when we're children to shut up 241 - > and stay not perp, shut up, be quiet, stay in 242 - > the corner, speak when you're spoken to, and very few 243 - > parents and now it's getting worse because they're both working. 244 - > Very few parents are saying well done. Very few parents 245 - > are giving the boundaries to children. That's hence there's graffiti everywhere, 246 - > machetes with secret sect. Very few parents are home all 247 - > the time. Very few parents are bringing up their children 248 - > in preschool. They're at preschool places right, childcare centers. So 249 - > there's there's it's unfortunately becoming in a bit of an 250 - > epidemic because therefore the root causes you ask are hidden. 251 - > So one of the biggest root causes is the lack 252 - > of self worth, the lack of self esteem, the lack 253 - > of confidence. And then you can you can have a 254 - > laugh at this if you like Jim's mowing in fact, 255 - > and hire a hobby do everything now, So a male 256 - > is being male is being eroded or attacked for the 257 - > first time in their life by not being needed. So 258 - > a female can even have a child now by going 259 - > to hospital and having artificial insemination. Right, So a male 260 - > is starting to see worldwide that their value and their 261 - > position in life, business, in sport, especially in business, females 262 - > are taking over a lot of men's jobs and I'm 263 - > not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying they are. 264 - > And so males are now becoming what they're not biologically 265 - > designed to be. Many of them are becoming house hobbies 266 - > and and doing, and the wife's going after work in 267 - > fact doing a good job. I might add, that's not 268 - > the point. So a lot of men's perceived position in 269 - > life as the breadwinner, which comes from the cave man, 270 - > areas being eroded. So that's part of the issues. In fact, 271 - > I know in some associations, for instance, Mark good Question, 272 - > there's quotas Now for females to be CEOs. Doesn't matter 273 - > how good they are or they're not, there's quotas. I've 274 - > actually canceled my membership of some because of this, because 275 - > I see the male, the male's self worth and position 276 - > being eroded. Now the male can't have children, the female can. 277 - > Biologically that's a fact, right. We can debate that till 278 - > the cows come in, but that's a fact. So the 279 - > males are now being forced in the world to being 280 - > forced to perform a role they're not designed for naturally, 281 - > and females are. So it's a real big issue because 282 - > the men are confused A lot of men are confused. 283 - > I'm hearing this from many, many female people even tonight 284 - > before I came on with you, with some friends saying 285 - > exactly that they're confused. They don't know what to do. 286 - > Their identity is being eroded and so and it's out 287 - > there and it's currently being attacked like never before. So 288 - > what comes with that? The research I told you earlier 289 - > is part of the problem. So men are loathe to 290 - > be seen to be asking for help. So that's one 291 - > of the biggest problems because they perceive they're not supposed to. 292 - > So one of the things we've got to do as 293 - > parents is we've got to be telling We've got to 294 - > be helping their self worth more. That's my opinion. We've 295 - > got to be. I mean, my mother, god lover, I 296 - > loved it dearly started to tell me at about seventy 297 - > that she loved me. Now that's not to say she didn't, 298 - > but I never heard that. She realized that she was 299 - > in her final years, right, And then it got to 300 - > eighty she told me more and more. You can have 301 - > a laugh at this, and she got confused and thought 302 - > I was my brother. But anyway, that doesn't matter. So 303 - > she said, John, I really love her a mum, my 304 - > name is George, and how you get a going We 305 - > had to laugh. The role of the grandparents and the 306 - > role of the especially see in Asia and in America. 307 - > In Asia the grandparents live with the daughter and son 308 - > in Laura the or the son and the daughter in law, 309 - > and they are the school of the air. They educate 310 - > their children in how to be parents. But the Western world, 311 - > especially Australia, they put them in nursing homes where we 312 - > get rid of them. Right, no good. Soon as your 313 - > sixty five, you're on the you're old and sligh moving 314 - > if you like as a product, you like that, Mark, 315 - > But you're a last leader. See you're a last leader. 316 - > We go into marketing terms. So they put you in 317 - > a nursing home because you're not worth to Bob. In fact, 318 - > there's a big issue and you would know this from 319 - > your research on shore of the age person of sixty 320 - > sixty five not being able to get a job. Yet 321 - > they have wisdom beyond the years. So why is this happening? 322 - > And it's eroading men's mental health because a lot of 323 - > men who've been in your positions. I know John and Mark, 324 - > you've had senior positions I know that very well. Well, 325 - > I see them sitting on husband chairs at shopping centers 326 - > while their wives are going off enjoying their shopping adventure 327 - > with their girlfriends. Now, these guys may have had a 328 - > cross section in life from CEO to boilermaker, it doesn't matter. 329 - > They're now nothing and they become puppy dogs sitting on 330 - > a chair. So one of the big issues John, you've 331 - > opened Pandora's box with your question and Mark brilliant is 332 - > males need a project to allow them to increase their wealth, 333 - > their mental health, and their well being especially So let 334 - > me just run something past you for a minute. So, 335 - > the bottom level of Maslow's hierarchy of was physiological to 336 - > survive and stay alive. And if you're down there, you're 337 - > in deep trouble, you're very angry, and eye anxiety is high. 338 - > And that's newborn babies and people in nursing homes and 339 - > people that have been retrenched without a parachute. Okay, nothing 340 - > to come back to the second level when you go 341 - > up is security to feel physically and emotionally safe in 342 - > the president in the future. But that comes with work 343 - > and save If you funnily enough, that's all you do 344 - > go to work. Go on, go to work. Come on, 345 - > you're still suffering some anxiety because there's no Ricky recognition. 346 - > Level three your social recognition to join in and belong 347 - > to groups, communicate and talk. Now, as soon as you 348 - > hit level three, your well being starts to kick in. 349 - > Level four is really interesting and it comes back to 350 - > your question mark. Level four is self esteem, and it's 351 - > an The way he researched that was to respect oneself 352 - > first and receive respect from others second. Not respect, get 353 - > respect from other first, so you respect yourself. So if 354 - > that's how you're thinking, by wanting respect from others, so 355 - > you respect yourself, you've already got a mental health problem. 356 - > And the behavior in that is interesting, and that's to 357 - > display one's ability, skills, knowledge and experience. So that's what's 358 - > slipping down in the workforce. They're not wanting the knowledge 359 - > and experience. They're wanting to display your abilities and skills. 360 - > Many from university or wherever, but they haven't got the 361 - > wisdom you me John have got, So they're missing out 362 - > on the wisdom to mentor people. And so when you 363 - > get to level four, you go up higher in your 364 - > mental health, wellness and well being and level five during 365 - > COVID massive this is what the male needs to have. 366 - > Level five is self actualization to achieve you full potential. 367 - > And your behavior pattern is really interesting. It's imagine, create 368 - > and be self motivated. And when you achieve that level, 369 - > you're at your best level of well being and your 370 - > mental health is the high as possible. So me writing books, 371 - > coming back to the start of our discussion, is a 372 - > project I love and it keeps me active and mental, 373 - > mentally ed mental. I call it mental gymnastics at eighty 374 - > four eighty five in November, so they call me Georgie 375 - > Boy at the era my golf club Georgia book. Can 376 - > you believe that? And two weeks sorry, a month ago, 377 - > I got two new clients. I didn't get them referred 378 - > to me. Why no risk? In other words, when you 379 - > get referrals, they know there's no risk. If I'm going 380 - > to be involved with people, they don't want any risk involved. 381 - > So I've worked out and part of the book is 382 - > about that. Males, especially, if I can this might sound sexist, 383 - > it's certainly not. Males especially seem to be more attuned 384 - > to needing project like painting, building something for their grandchildren, mentoring, 385 - > some people being a corporate coach using their background and 386 - > the experience and no and experience that John and you 387 - > and Mark have both got or building something for an 388 - > age care shelter learning, painting learning. And I've got friend 389 - > eighty eight learning new learning, new languages. One guy eighty one, 390 - > I know he's just helped Tim Wilson to win the 391 - > only seat in the federal election that was held by 392 - > the Tels. He's doing all that right. So you need, 393 - > you really need a project. So many many men who retire, 394 - > I'll sort of finish on this point to your question. 395 - > Many men who retire don't have a project. In fact, 396 - > I know some accounting top four companies I won't name 397 - > them who asked me to help them with their partners 398 - > who they made leave at fifty five and sixty. Can 399 - > you believe I've just said that, Well, the best age 400 - > in the world for people with wisdom and experience is 401 - > fifty five to sixty. So they kick them out so 402 - > they don't know, they don't know. That's a big that's 403 - > a big saying. I use a lot. You've heard that 404 - > they don't know, they don't know what they're doing. So 405 - > I said to this firm top four in Australia. What 406 - > do you do to help these people? Why did you 407 - > want to talk to me? And they say, oh, they 408 - > find they go home and their marriages break up. I say, 409 - > you're kidding, no, because all of a sudden, the male 410 - > or the especially the male, and predominantly in the accounting industry, 411 - > you know, these the older ones are go under and 412 - > get under the feet of their wife. They get into 413 - > earth space. They invader, they invade her space. They say, 414 - > what are we doing today day? And she said, I'm 415 - > going out with my girlfriends. They said, well what am 416 - > I doing to do? So? In other words, if they 417 - > haven't got a plan, they're like a lonely island. So 418 - > I said, what do you do to help them? Oh, 419 - > we have a seminar six months before they leave. What 420 - > a seminar? I said, what happens after the seminar? Nothing? 421 - > Why you see? So part of the problem here we've got, 422 - > and this might sound a bit weird or deep, is 423 - > most accounting and law firms, especially I stay with the 424 - > accounting profession. They're lovely people. You'd want them for your 425 - > son and and your grandfather and your husband, right, no problem, 426 - > but they're left brain task orientated people who are not 427 - > right brain soft, skilled people orientated, so they don't. They 428 - > find it difficult to have relationships. They find it. They don't, 429 - > they find it. They're low in empathy, they're low and 430 - > self awareness, they lower in social skills. Often accountants, I 431 - > know accounts are one to carry business cards. They're scared 432 - > to give them out and talk to people. It's crazy stuff, 433 - > but that's how they're wired in their profession. That's the 434 - > wide from birth. So part of the problem is they leave, 435 - > they retire, and unless they've got a project to motivate 436 - > them or inspire them or engage them in, they slip 437 - > down the slippery slope. And many, many people who retire 438 - > without and I know you two haven't done this. You're 439 - > smart enough to not do it. But many people who have, 440 - > many senior execs and people just generally in life business 441 - > support who retire. Footballers are just the same. Often they 442 - > retire they've got nothing to do, they don't know what 443 - > to do. In fact, there's a big problem for the 444 - > AFL Coaches Association whether people are retiring or getting sacked 445 - > and they don't know what to do. They're critical in life. 446 - > So unless they've got a plan and a project, they 447 - > slip down the slippery slope. And I know many have 448 - > got sick, many have died prematurely because all I can 449 - > think of is the endorphins in the brain turn off 450 - > because they're not they're not using them, and they they 451 - > got It's interesting when you got too much time to think, Guys, 452 - > you ever had it? When you're by yourself, there's too 453 - > much time to think. And when there's too much time 454 - > to think, you start to get depressed. And when you 455 - > get depressed, you get anxious. And you get anxious because 456 - > anxiety kicks in when you lose control of your future. 457 - > And that's what happened in COVID. So you lose control 458 - > of your future. You're not making the decisions. So people 459 - > got anxiety attacks. And the part of that, and the 460 - > key point which I mentioned in my preambled at the book, 461 - > is you need large helpings of resilience now. Unfortunately, my daughter, 462 - > who's a doctor of psychology, she and I had to 463 - > do some work and we both found out when we 464 - > helped to help a couple of clients after COVID, that 465 - > the people we were trying to help and talk to 466 - > had never ever experienced any major war financial problem pandemic. 467 - > Many hadn't achieved, hadn't experienced anything, and as a result, 468 - > they weren't able to flex their resilience muscles. They were letting, 469 - > they were letting the world wash over them, and they 470 - > didn't have the skill set to enable them to cope. 471 - > So what I've tried to write in the book is 472 - > to incorporate a lot of my manual I use when 473 - > I coach people to help them, you know, with these skills. 474 - > So does that give you an overview of the book. 475 - >

Speaker 4: I'll tell you what it makes. 476 - >

Speaker 2: It makes you really want to just run out and 477 - > get a copy of. 478 - >

Speaker 4: That book, George, because that is that covers so much 479 - > of what the world is experiencing today in so many ways, 480 - > dealing with the whole COVID wash through the pre COVID 481 - > post COVID, but also the input from social media and 482 - > the cultural shift that we've had, but also recognizing there's 483 - > the biological fundamentals that go back to cave MAANDAIDS that 484 - > are still very very real emotions that are in the 485 - > two sexes, which are just. 486 - >

Speaker 5: Programmed that way. Yes, there's all the pronouns and all 487 - > that sort of stuff, but funda mentally, it's the there's 488 - > the hardwiring, synaptic pathways that are just there and you've 489 - > got to deal with them. And then, as you say, 490 - > the self bomber can creep up very quickly without realizing. 491 - > And if you don't have that project, and you don't 492 - > have that support network and you're not prepared to ask 493 - > for help, individuals can get in a lot of trouble. 494 - >

Speaker 3: Male and female toddling both sexes. I'm not saying that female. 495 - >

Speaker 2: Has don't absolutely so I think it's a I can't 496 - > wait to get a copy of the book, George, so 497 - > definitely came for that catch up so we can we 498 - > can go through it. John, never you gone of the 499 - > questions for George. 500 - >

Speaker 1: No, I think, George, you make such a good point there. 501 - > And it's crazy that companies let people go. You know, 502 - > we work for a company that once person got to 503 - > fifty eight years old, they cleared them out. 504 - >

Speaker 2: There's a lot of companies, George, John like that. You 505 - > head fifty five public service, You're gone. 506 - >

Speaker 1: Yeah. And these guys have such tremendous experience and coaching 507 - > schools and mentoring schools that they can help develop those 508 - > young managers come up through the system. So you get 509 - > rid of these guys, the guys going into roles who 510 - > probably a little bit too early to be in that role, 511 - > and contum far more money than just having this whole 512 - > ecosystem of developing people all the all the way through. 513 - > It was quite interesting for me because working in the Nordics, 514 - > if you try and retrench someone who's like sixty years old, 515 - > the cost to do that is so big that very 516 - > few companies were actually doing it. And when we moved 517 - > to the Nordics, we had to set this company up 518 - > and we bought we took over three or four companies 519 - > which were morgamated, and in those companies there were four 520 - > or five guys that were over sixty and to retrench 521 - > them would it cost us too much money. So it 522 - > was actually far better for us to work with the 523 - > guys till till they reached sixty five, which was retirement age. 524 - > So no one wanted them in the departments. So for 525 - > some reason they said they need to come work in 526 - > my department. So I inherited these guys and they were 527 - > totally amazing. They had so much experience, they knew, they 528 - > had all the contacts that we achieved so much just 529 - > by using these guys and listening to them and getting 530 - > their guidance because I was quite quite a younger. You know, 531 - > I was early forties at the top. You still are 532 - > joy still mentally, I'm about forties. What was interesting for me? 533 - > Eventually then all the other directors were trying to steal 534 - > these guys off my department. You don't have to fight 535 - > for them and say no, sorry, you can't have it 536 - > discuts online. They weren't for me, and it was amazing. 537 - > So I just can't believe companies actually do that. 538 - >

Speaker 3: You've got to ask you a question, why why, Julius Marmilla? 539 - > That dates me? Why is it so okay? Well, I 540 - > can only come back to that many young people who've 541 - > only been to UNI and haven't had this might send 542 - > pretty terrible, but I don't mean it. The haven't had 543 - > any real world business experience are threatened by us. They 544 - > really are. We've got knowledge and experience where we've been 545 - > enabled equipped because of our experience and background to know 546 - > a lot of things about business, and they haven't. Often 547 - > the accountants who are primed to be the managing partner 548 - > don't want to be it, so the managing partners are 549 - > often those still left standing out the front and now 550 - > others stay take a step backwards. The managing they haven't 551 - > got the right brain people skills to do the job. 552 - > They call it the Peter principle, where you get promoted 553 - > beyond your level of competence to in competence. So the 554 - > accounting fraternity worldwide, I can tell you it's rife with 555 - > this problem. And the managing partners are now as you 556 - > rightly said, just then, Mark, they now lose the ability 557 - > to service their client base like they used to. Secondly, 558 - > they now haven't got the skills that they're not equipped 559 - > to be able to motivate, inspire and lead, which means 560 - > you're ready for this word. The leadership is working on 561 - > the business. Managing is working in the business, and they 562 - > see working on the business as a cost, not an investment, 563 - > so they don't work on it. They love working in it. 564 - > Their practitioners they love doing stuff. So you haven't got 565 - > a leader. They have no idea. They love playing with 566 - > their accounts. 567 - >

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for today. That was a really 568 - > fantastic intro to your book, and I think the book 569 - > is going to be a fantastic read. And I really 570 - > encourage as many of our listeners to get a copy 571 - > of it and reach out to you to get a 572 - > copy of it, because that is a very real world 573 - > and topical issue right now that actually takes lives. And 574 - > that's the sad part. That's a sad truth about it. 575 - > Mental health takes lives. It kills more people than cancer. 576 - > It is a very serious illness and what you're doing 577 - > and your contribution to assist that is fantastic. So definitely 578 - > appreciate you coming on the show. 579 - >

Speaker 3: John Mark. I was very fortunate before you go to 580 - > have a person put me up to be a radio 581 - > presenter for ten years on radio about called the Life Coach. Now. 582 - > To do that very quickly, I had to research a 583 - > heck of a lot. I wrote one thousand, five hundred 584 - > programs full radio, and that set me off with the 585 - > background and the root cause, if you like, like you 586 - > just said, it's an epidemic, this is the problem. It's 587 - > an epidemic. Pandemic was an epidemic of respiratory men's mental 588 - > health is an epidemic of men's longevitysolutely. It's really scary, absolutely, 589 - > and so we need more men to stand up and 590 - > say I need help, I'm over here, can you come 591 - > and talk to me? And many, many times mark. You 592 - > don't have to give them advice. The best the form 593 - > of help is to listen, let them download. I have 594 - > people you might recall in years gone by at your firm. 595 - > I had people downloading to me for an hour and 596 - > a half. Often I wouldn't give them any advice because 597 - > they just wanted to get it off their chest. So 598 - > a lot of people, the higher you go in business, 599 - > the less you people you've got to talk to, and 600 - > so you bottle it up inside and you get sick.