60 and Fired: Your Roadmap to Recovery from Retrenchment

Thanks very much for joining us again. Great to have you on the show. Today's going to be a really interesting topic because it's what happens if you get fired for a job at sixty because you're probably not ready for retirement, So how do you plan what do you do from sixty to sixty five or seventy when you want to retire? So I think it's going to be a very interesting discussion, So let's jump into it.

With thirty years experience in autologistics and state of the art locations in five major strain cities, pre Car Fleet Services are a premier, all in one solutions provider for commercial vehicle fleet operators, leasing companies, and original equipment manufacturers. Please visit precar dot com dot au and click on the link to fleet Services. Okay, well, thanks for having me on again, John and Mark. Look, it's quite a precarious time in your life and you're usually not equipped for it.

The more we can talk about it tonight, the better. First of all, if you are retrench which I think you would, reduced the topic as one of the things I've made some notes to cover tonight in this interview is to reflect on why you were retrenchd and it's not an easy thing because you've got to hold a mirror up to yourself and you've got to look at aspects that you think may have contributed. And I'm not sure what they are, but I know some things that contribute. Our older people are more opinionated.

Often they are more direct, they don't take prisoners type of thinking, and you can therefore threaten the younger people who don't how to handle that. And the millennials are softer. You know, they're different breed to us people, us dinosaurs, they often cause they called me when I'm ad fours, I'm the real dinosaur. But funnily enough, just got a new client last week, so he obviously doesn't care.

So one of the one of the things I think you've got to do is is you've got to have a good debrief of yourself. And I think you've got to be very courageous, and if you get the opportunity before you do leave that job, you need to ask your HR personal whoever is your person you report to, to be brutal and say, why do you think I'm not of value anymore? Because that's what retrenchment means, I'm not of value anymore. Or I'm not perceived very important work.

I'm not perceived as valuable anymore, as a valuable asset caused by many things, downsizing tech whatever. Okay, so once you get that feedback, I think what you need to. Do is take time off. That's the first thing I'd say to anybody is don't rush in and take time off, lick your worns, but think and write a lot.

Very important to write. The mind becomes a bag of spaghetting. You don't know at the end of the day what you're thinking about. It can go nuts thinking when you've got too much time to think.

During COVID John I had too much time to think. I'm by myself. My children were gorgeous, but you couldn't have them around, and you couldn't see anybody. So what I learned was when it was really interesting, interesting to help in this discussion.

When you've got too much time to think, your mind wanders and you can get depressed. You can get anxious because you get anxious when you lose control of your future. So if you get retrenched, it's a form of anxiety because you're losing control of your future. So the best thing I think you can do is find out why you're not rich, why you're retrenched, why you're not continuing, and then take stock of that.

Because I think what comes as the biggest shock is often you're not expecting it correct. It comes it completely blind side you, and that can be even more devastating because you think, why everything's going fine, you're doing well in your job, and suddenly they say, well we're going to dance, tize or whatever, we don't need all these positions. Well, I mean I've got a couple of marriage breakdowns where that's happened as well. The last thing I've thought of is that I come home to know it.

I mean, it's quite really a shock, and that can spook you, to be honest. So you've sort of got to take stop and say why is this happening? And often you're not there enough and you're working, and you know you work a holy or whatever, so there's a great there's a great saying, you know, live to work, what don't work to live? Live to work.

So the thing that I think you've got to do is reflect the life, and you've got to have got to have a private time. You've got to make notes, write down what you think of the reasons. If you can get it, there's a great your money. I made a note to talk about it.

It's called The. Intern of Has anybody's seen the film The Intern with Robert de Niro because it's about this topic amazing and it's a brilliant film. And he's in his sixties and he was the CEO for Yellow Pages in America. So the film says that's the film portraysy.

But what he did and I made a comment to say to people that are watching this, he actually went for a lesser job just get his foot in the door. And he didn't try to go in and tell him what he how good he was, and you know what he was, and they had to ask him to be honest, so he took time to think about what he'd do. The other thing that's a really important thing to do is and he did it, and it's a good model. Is a person in this situation who's is retrenched and is not going back, let's say going forward.

That's a really positive thing. So is to look at companies who you think you'd like to work for. And the last interview you member, I said, I looked at companies that I thought i'd like da as clients. Well, I've given this advice to a lot of people.

Work out who who who you'd like to work for with whatever word and if there, if you fit their culture, very important to fit their culture. And then what you need to do is you need to look at their website or as much information as you can. Ask around your networks. What is the company like?

Now by that I mean things like where are they situated, what's their office layout like, what are the what's the age demographics? What? What's that? This is a bit detail.

What do they wear or what do they wear? What's their style of of ployments? Yeah, get to get to know it. And then if you finally get to a stage where you see or get told of an opportunity, all the more reason why you should know what I'd call on a cat this or should do due diligence, you go down the burrow and find out what they're like.

Now I'll have to I'll give you an example. And this is not when I was retrenched, but it's a good example for this. When I was asked to be interviewed for the role of a corporate coach at BMW, the lady there mentioned to me i'd known who for some time in a business sense, make sure you wear this is really amazing. Make sure you wear a dark suit, black shoes, a white shirt, and a dark conservative tie, and speak slowly and quietly.

So she packaged me. She wanted me to get the job because of what I what I knew, and my school base. But I had to Therefore, she was helping me to mirror who I was going. To be employed by.

Now, there were five or six applicants for this role, and I was the first appointed. Now, okay, I'm proud of that, But her advice I'm now giving to others. So you need to you need to really look at the style and the culture of the of the companies that you're going to go, you know, look at and be talking to and and it's even before that when you're sending in a CV. Once you know the style of the business that you are going to send a C, make sure you send a color pick picture of you in the style address that you think they would want to see, now, not what you normally wear.

Okay, So right now, when I see clients, and they're funnily enough, they're younger clients, I'm mentoring people in their thirties and forties. I don't wear a tie usually at all because they don't, and I wear a refit or address jacket, and so I try to mirror who I'm seeing and some of them just we jumpings, just wear a shirt, open neck shirt. That's what I try to do a bit similar to what I wear it tonight. So good casual if you want to put it in those terms.

And the other thing you need to do is you need. To word your CV. If you want your proposal on one page no more, you've got to say and people come up, have given me, can you help me with this profile? Yeah?

Goodness, greatest ten pages. They won't even get to it. They won't even get to page five. So you need to have an executive summary and with your picture, and it's got to say what is what you're assets will provide to the company?

First? What are you going to give them? What do you think you give them? You've got to take some sort of risk and that's a big word we're going to talk about in a minute.

So if you can say what you what you can do for them without the interview yet knowing from their website or the ad, that's all the information you've been given and then then document your skill sets and then in detail, and then document highlights of your business in the past, not hundreds, probably five maximum, and in bullet points. The whole thing should be in bullet point. And then at the end of it you can you can highlight your qualifications. Some of them might be out of date for some of these new young people, but nevertheless you should be proud of them.

But if you do that, you highlight yourself. In other words, you're packaging yourself like a brand, and the brand should mirror the company that you're what, or the business that you're wanting to work with, or for whatever word it's appropriate. That makes sense. It does, it does, George.

I like your point that you raise about the downloading of the information because a lot of guys of girls as well, people have been in say roles, and they get to a certain point in their careers and they've they hit that fifty or sixty age age point where a lot of them get packaged out. Like if you've got some defined benefits program still off to the ethery you go, but it's too early to actually retire because you want to still be active and do something, do some sort of work, ideally still with a degree of challenge to it.

But I like that point that you're raised about taking stock of what you've done up until that point, because often in those high powered and pressure rolls, there's so much going on, it's so intense for so long that you lose sight of what's potentially going on around you. And I think the point your raises a very good and a good one about taking your taking the information out of your head and writing it down, because if you let a churn in your head, it it's like a battery, it just runs flat and you're losing energy, and then you actually then become very You can become quite ill from just being fatigued.

So that's a really good point that putting it all down on paper, and then within that information that you see on paper, you can see the strengths and the weaknesses that may have sort of crept in that you haven't been hadn't noticed, and then. Well, okay, well really which way don't want to go? And it actually gives you the view for what is that next step, because it's when you put it on paper and then you look at it as opposed to milling around in your head. It then gives you the clarity and then you can work on the action plan.

Say well, I actually want to do this, not that here. I've been going down this path and doing this X, Y and z successfully businesses chowsen to do a different thing. It's time for me to leave the business or do whatever. And then it's right, well, what's the next what's the next challenge, what's the next chapter.

And it's through that clarity, as you say, put it on paper, get it out of your head, save that, preserve the battery that is your your your your mind and your brain. And then when you look at it, you can then see it and the wisdom. Then it sort of jumps out at you. Well, I just mentioned it's very interesting you say all that because I just mentioned to John starting this session today, I just finished my sixth book and I was very excited to night at seven o'clock.

It's called the stealth bomber, attacking silently, attacking men's mental health. And that's what you've just alluded to. You See, so when you're you're very vulnerable at sixty sixty five, very vulnerable, often alone, it may even be you're by yourself, your spouse may have passed on. Male or female.

It's happening quite a bit in the accounting profession where partners are being asked to retire at sixty That goodness be that's sixty is the highest level of your performance level really in the world. It's where you've got skills, experience, and wisdom all combined in the cake, right and the best that's weelve known that the best prime minister's are presidents around the world are the best from sixty five to seventy five. Well, now it's getting on a bit longer. There's seventy five to sixty five to eighty in the case of the US, So when you look around that they're older than younger people.

So what you've got to become is and we talked about this in the last interview, really you've got to become very flexible and pivot a lot. And the point about writing it down, John, it's very easy to become depressed. I'll use that word. It's part of the grief cycle.

Touching on the grief cycle for a second, because you just made the point, John, you usually get retrenchs when you don't know it's going to happen. So the first the first part of the five levels, right. I heard on a football show the other night there was seven. I liked this shows you I don't know what they're talking about anyway.

The first one is denial, you say, can't be me. I've done everything. I can't be what's happened? Right, That's the first one.

The second is you get angry. Second part of the grief cycle is angry. How dare they do that to me? I've given them all this, you know, service, whatever, whatever, whatever.

The third level is interesting in retrenching. It's it's called bargaining, and it happens in domestic marriage breakups as well. But it's bargaining. If I do this, would you do that?

And you can. You can whollo in quicksand in level three and not get any where, spin your wheels for a long while. So if you can. Work out that all of a sudden it isn't going to be reversed, then the next level is quite serious.

And the next level is depression. That's level four. Now, that's when you are overwhelmed by everything. Hence your point mark about writing things down.

As I said, you're overwhelmed. It's like you're under a waterfall. You can't get out of it. There's no doors, there's no windows.

That's called the black dog in some ways, as you know. But that's that's quite debilitating and scary, and let me say dangerous. All right, that'll do. We know what happens to some people, funnily enough, mainly men when they get to that level.

And the fifth level is where you've let go of that and reflected on and what would I say, analyze the situation. And it's called acceptance. So you accept the fact that this is happening, or it has happened. It's no one's well, I can say it this way, I can say, can't I it's no one's fault, there's no one, no one's blame.

It could be a company's downsizing. Imagine what Listen and Hendra going through at the moment. If this is if it's. Accurate, Yeah, well, lord Mardine knows what's going to happen there.

I fired a cristal ball, I probably smashin the more so, there's going to be a lot of casualties. And that's what happens when you get a merger and acquisition. I've been involved with two of those that I know of, which were just terrible and no names. But a brewery took over a dairy company and they thought everything was like brewery.

No milk's got a shelf life, of course, so there was a culture shock and two tire companies I worked for one took the other over. The one who took the company over actually only the reason they got the M and A was because they allowed the executives of the company they took over to run the new one. Well, that was try that pasize. That was just a madhouse.

So it was a sweet bride'smaid deal, if you want to call it. But mergers and acquisitions and are like that. If you get involved in those, there's really no winners to it, and you get what's called a clash of cultures, and there's nothing you can do because leopidap spots and they only look brighter under the lights. They don't go away.

So the people that are controlling the businesses are who they are who they are, So you have to a bit like an umpire in a soccer or a football match. You've got to play to the umpire. You there's nothing you can do about it, and you've got to accept that's the fifth point. So once you accept that point of the retrenchment.

Then that frees you up, John, That lets the breaks off right. It's a bit of an outlet. You can now. Spend time on yourself.

Now. I love what I think it was, Mark said, because I did this. I got retrench once in a project where I was a general manager for Victoria actually, and I was used and had my brain picked. That's fine, But I was terrible when I walked in to a meeting and was told, just like you said, John, I wasn't there anymore.

Well, well what we do? That's good. I was lucky. I had some skills to get over it.

And the thing I did was I went away and I did what you've just mentioned. I actually did three, not one, three swats strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats on me. And I did. Them about two weeks apart.

And I did each one without looking at the previous one. And what I taught me was there was a consistent thread going through my strengths. And through my weaknesses. To be quite frank, yep.

And I was more of a right brain people person, communicator with a marketing strategic outlook sales if you want to say it, as well, and my weakness was it and that aspect that wasn't my fortune. That's left brain task orientated. So I worked out that whenever I did this swat, it kept coming up with my strengths with the same even though I didn't check the previous one. That's really important not to cheat on yourself.

So then you get a picture, you form a picture of yourself. And then once when you're that age at sixty sixty five, I think realism sets in. You've got to know your die cast. I mean, and the next thing I'd say to you, Mark is you shouldn't go and do shouldn't I said, I didn't say don't.

Shouldn't go and do something? You've not got a skill out, I mean, it makes it. You've got to now retrain yourself. I laugh when I hear the government saying they're going to reskill all these people.

Oh, for goodness sake, anyway, some will be that's fine. But if you can, if you can have a future where you build on your skills and understand your weaknesses and be proud of your skills and focus on them, you're more likely one to get a job, two to make more money, and three to be happy because you're not putting it through distress. So you know a lot of a lot of people who are entrenched or to do that. I think the other thing that I researched a little bit for this interview, but there's a Lancet Healthy Longevity Journal in twenty twenty three had a great article about longevity in the aged areas mentally fit superages.

They called them have great communication and people's skills. There you go, and that's what came out of England the best. And they're in their eighties. Even these people, you know, I'm eighty four.

I don't care. I told you that, right, And I've just got new clients this week. So so what you can't get wisdom at twenty four? So provided you keep this is the part that's interesting.

The sort of things you can do when you reach this situation is you could be involved in purposes. You've got to have what's what a purpose in life? A pill? All right, you've got to take a pill.

That's not my saying. That's doctor John Tickel's saying, good friend of mine. He calls it a pill. Purpose in life?

Okay, So purposes could be and think of the age group and the wisdom and the experience you've got. We're all in that area. You could become a mentor for people. You could become a coach, you could join a book club, you could get into painting.

You could become a singer. I've got a friend who's become a singer at seventy five. You can start to write books. It can go and there.

You can become a speaker at the probos or lines or whatever. And you'd be surprised. Who are members of those who say, oh, hang on, can you do some work for me for my business? You can play bridge, golf, tennis, join a book club, or you can build something for a grandchild or their home or someone in an age care facility.

That's a big market. I mean, my goodness, the age care industry in Australia is crying out for people to inspire those that are there. And it's a great cause. One day we might be there, gentlemen, provided to do something.

So if you want to. Leave a long, positive and mentally healthy life at the age of sixty sixty five, you've got to create a worthy purpose in life. So I'm not sure what that is for each person or beaches different. Some people want to buy a caravan and go around, become a great nomad, go around Australia.

My brother did that, and there's plenty of that doing it and itself is a project. Yeah, if you want to do that. So I think you've got to be a bit single minded and do that. I did reflect on a couple of other things if I can, if I can highlight them, and one of the things that I've found to be very special and have a universal benefit is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by the late doctor Steven Kobe.

And it's brilliant. If he fell on court, I don't know if it's not perhaps a single silver bullet, but he fell on this fantastic formula and the core there's seven competencies and I'll just quickly run through them because people watching this might go, oh, hang on, that's interesting. First of all, you've got to be proactive. What does that mean.

You've got to take initiative. You've got to manage things yourself, you've got to respond proactively before others tag you to. And you've got to keep commitments. Now, this is a big thing.

I recently had a meeting with the CEO of a company. I went there and would you believe you didn't even turn up He's in another another state. Well really, so keeping commitments tells it says you can trust people, take responsibility and have accountability the goo good words, and have a positive influence on the results. So that's happened.

One be proactive. The second one, I reckon is the key. The second is begin with the end in mind. So tonight for or today our interview, say tonight because that's.

What it is. I prepared this this morning and last week. Otherwise I'm not going to do the job for you. So you have to begin with the end in mind.

What do we want tonight help people who are getting into trens when they're sixty and sixty five to start a new career or do something? Is that right, John, No, that's correct. Well that's the end in mind. So you've got to have the vision and goals.

You've got to define a mission statement. You've got to set measure, team and personal goals. You've got to start the project successfully. You've got to align your gods with priorities, and you've got to focus on desired outcomes.

One of the things you've got to do is number three, and that is put first things first. You've got to become the best time manager you've ever seen. And a lot of people when they're retrenched and in the age bracket we're talking about, are so distressed. I'm calling it distressed because distress is bad.

You eu stress of Remember that telling you is On's mark is good. Good stresses of one. Tat's bad stresses. I've got retreachd Okay.

So there's the only time you're not stressed. And people should know this, but they don't. It's hidden. Journalists have no idea what I'm about to say.

The only time you're not stressed is when you are deceased. Otherwise you are stressed every second of the day. That's a very good point. The trick is to know whether it's distress bad or you stress good.

Now. I was taught that in nineteen eighty four by doctor Wilfrid Jarvis out of Sydney, who was a behavioral signist and who was a guest speaker. I'm like on the seminars I gave in the conference that John Bertrand when he won the America's Cup. I've never ever forgotten it.

I have no idea. I've never met a journalist. It's a big longbow. Now anyone if you wanted to, who's known that piece of information?

But if you look it up, it's easy, it's easy to track it. So we all think we're stressed. Well, that's okay, you're stressed because you just break seventy hit golf or that's it's you stress. But you're stressed because you like six balls in the dam on the last time, because you and you could have won.

That's this stress. And I'm making a. Point how I play well? Okay, now if.

You think about that, If you think about that, when you're retrenched taking your point on and you didn't know what was going to happen, you are. Distressed, Yes, of course. However, when you work out, and I love Mark's point, when you've put down and I think this is really important in the SWAT, put down the highlights, even in a CV bullet point, that make it ten. If you like the highlights of your career to date.

Wow, right, And when I saw what I did, like, for instance, just two launched John Bertrand's seminars for the first time in Australia, when you won America's Cup, Yeah, two launch a car on ice with ice skaters for the first time in the world, had never been done. I got pretty excited about me. So we're all in your careers, in our careers and those watching, we'll have highlights that they can reminisce on. And it's really important to do that because that's you stress.

Okay, that's going back to good times good stress. So the most important thing is you've got to put first things first. You've got to learn how to prioritize your life. This is have a three.

You've got to be a great time manager, and you've got to realize time management is showing respect to others. Habit for is interesting. It's called a win win. Now.

Donald Trump knows a bit about this, and he also knows how the fact about win lose. You have to build high trust relationships. Now, once again, I'm not this is not a political comment. All I'm saying is the journalists I haven't read, don't understand him, have no idea what he's doing at the moment, how he's building relationships.

We all think he's a fool. No, No, relationships don't happen overnight. Sometimes you have your plan a relationship that it you might see the benefits of it in eighteen months. I mean, it took me five years to be appointed by BMW.

I kept making relationships with people till all of a sudden I got a fak. And that's what you've got to do. But men, men, if we talk about men being retrench tonight, we're not saying men. But if we say men, men are terrible and patience, they hate it, they want to do it.

Why can't it be now? Think about going shopping. A female is much more patient than a male male. Male is very very impatient.

Have it six? Sorry, five first seat to understand, say you be understood. So the big key to finding a future is to ask lots of questions and don't answer them. Ask lots of questions when you go from an interview, ask lots of questions of the person who's seeking the job to be filled.

Ask lots of questions, don't answer them. Be patient. Less is more. I was taught this on radio small Less is more, keep it keep it tight.

Have it. Six is synergized. Leverage those contacts and that you can leverage contacts, live leverage ideas, leverage knowledge wherever you can. And the seventh one to make it sort of complete.

Is what we're doing tonight really is sharp and the S and that is learn continually, have a continuous process of learning, a continuous process of improvement. And it's even when you're sixty five and sixty. There's no reason why you can't learn goodness. But some people say I hate reading books.

We'll get used to it. I mean I read books. I've read thirty five books this year, and I read them on my iPad, and I find that it's great for me, so very interesting, just to be a bit flexible. You can do things.

You've got to want to do it, though, So the real bottom line to getting a new career or job at sixty or sixty five is to realize you have to do something. And I love what Mark said before you've got to you've got to have a project. You've got to and if you can get a project in COVID, John old Tadu the people that came out of COVID with the best mental health. And I've done all this research for the book I finished tonight.

With those that had a project, I actually write my biography. Some people I know learnt painting, others learn a language. Yeah, it's amazing what they did build things painted the deck, painted the hours, and the male needs one usually biologically. The females have a project that's easy for them to handle.

It's called being a grandma. And they're built to have children and built to look after them, and they've got techniques to do that better than males. That's not to say anyone's better or worse. They're just they're best, better equipped.

But men aren't. I mean, I go to shopping centers mark and I see retired guys that are probably CEOs and next general managers sitting on husband chairs in the supermarket and the shopping centers whilst their wife has an adventure called shopping. She might not buy anything, but the husband sit there like statues and board out of their brain and it's not good for them mental health. And they're not even talking at the people sitting next to them.

It's like they're all sitting like ducks in a row. It's quite scary, to be honest, and I've seen this at so many shopping centers. It's quite quite sad. Really, here are these high.

Powered CEOs, general managers, sales managers, whatever they are. They can be boiler makers. They can need anybody. They can be a technician, it doesn't matter.

Pattle better, but they're not doing anything anymore. Their brain is now vacant and their mental health is going going downhill very very quickly unless they pull themselves up by their boot straps. So the last the point I'm going to make is who's going to pull them up by their boot straps. Often it's their wife, and I'll can tell you what happens.

It's rife at the moment. A lot of people who get retrenched at sixty sixty five have marriage breakdowns. Why because they're now under the feet of their wife if that's or spouse, and they've taken their space and they're interrupting their life life and they're. Not used to handling that.

So they need to go to a coach or mentor or somebody a counselor let's use that word, to get them to get help about how to live again. It's really quite a big deal. Is that helpful? Absolutely?

Because it's interesting, as you say, George, there's. With career individuals, whether it's whatever industry it's in, and even a career is a technical or builder or anyone in those in the trades. If you're defined by the job that you do. When you mentioned it before, it's very easy for individuals to get trapped in the living to work scenario.

And if you can love your work. It's important to love what you do, but there is a real danger that that defines you as a person and when that's taken away, you're no longer that individual, like say you're not the CEO of bamb or the the president the vice president of sales in Australia. So these are the sort of things that, as you say, if you don't have the alternatives or a plan to manage that after life, if you like after work life, what is the phase if you don't have, say, a role that you can transition into, a lot of people get seats on boards, which is a thing because you're still actively involved.

You've got your wisdom you're drawing on as I mentioned, like once you're in your sixties, you've got wisdom. So just just picking you up on the on the board issue. You raised very interesting that and what I've learned is you don't, well, most people don't get a seat on the board because they've applied. Okay, this is this is a bit of a misdemeanor in the world you get asked.

Okay, I've had a couple of clients say how can I get on boards? I say, networks that people ask you, right, because that's what happens now. The whole this discussion we're having to today tonight is about one word. It's about risk.

And I mentioned this last time. It's all about reducing your risk of your own life. Reducing the risk if you're going to work for somebody else, so you mirror what they want, not being opinionated, know all, not being a threat to them, to mold yourself into what they want. Because there is there's a great article that happened earlier this year, sorry, late last year.

There's a discrimination epidemic at the moment it's happening. It's a big thing to a white but mainly in Australia, it's happening where you get to sixty or sixty five and you're seen as finished and it's sad really. So what I'd be saying to anybody who who suffers this is, okay, reinvent yourself. Now.

I've said this to two people on the golf course a month ago. Okay, there you go and we're talking about it, and they said, you know how long have you had your business? You said seven years? I said, what you're suffering the Seven Year Edge?

Did you ever watch missus dating me? I don't care. Did you ever watch the movie The Seven Year Edge with Marilyn Monroe and j Mansfield? And funnily enough, he's only forty something.

He said, yes, I saw it. I saw it on YouTube. I said, well, there you go every seven years. I think you've got to reinvent yourself.

I try to. I massage what I call myself. I massage my positioning statement. Yeah, you've got to remain relevant.

I call it. Governments don't get elected if we can jump into that pit because they stop remaining relevant to the to the values of the of the marketplace called the electorate, and so they get voted out. So you can do what you want to do. But providing it's what they want.

That's That's a simple at lancer. Isn't it. So? So when you're when you're staying with the topic we're here, when you're retrenched, it's very importan new package yourself so that you're marketable.

And the point I'm saying is do some swats, Yes, work out where you want to go, where your strengths are if you've got to work on a weakness. And it's technology. I know that scares a lot of people. You've got no idea how many friends don't on a new iPhone?

Oh no way, don't want an iPad. So a lot of people are scared. It's anxiety. They don't it's changed.

The word change is a terrible word because people hate it. But they love fine tuning, they love adjusting, they love pirouetting. Yeah, they love all those because they're softer, easier. The word probably that jumps in the mind is when you're retreats and you didn't know what's happening, John, you go into shock, but actually you don't know you do.

People are going to shop very rarely know they're in shock. Someone has to help them, someone has to tell them, someone has to look after them. Yeah, they don't know they are and so therefore it's a very curious situation. So you have to you have to extract yourself from the You have to get out of where you are pretty quickly.

And to do that you need help. So I know most companies now have a service where but they'll put you with a group, consulting group to help you in transition, help you help you in that, and that's one of the things some people don't want to take it. They're crazy, they should be doing it. The problem when you get to sixty sixty mark is often you think you know everything and actually you don't.

Actually you've really got to open the door again and start to learn. But so I'd be advising those people who do get retrends if there's if the company or the business is offering them a transition service, they should take it up because usually they'll pay for it anyway, and it's very, very beneficial in helping you realign your life. But I've just got a question about before you even get to sexty in your early fifties, yep, should you start putting something in place just in case something happens in your late fifties or early sixties.

Should you start planning something and saying, well, if that happens, I've got this plan. That's interesting and that's common sense. But senses are common and many people, I think, yes, but many people haven't got when that happens, they won't have the time or the inclination or the or what the purpose the focus to do that. They'll be as Mark said before, they'll be so knee deep in what they're doing, right, and so busy in what they're doing, and meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting, after plantrip, after plan trip after hotel, after meeting, after cartrip, after uber trip, after zoom after zoom, they haven't got time to scratch themselves.

And they go home and they're exhausted. So the last thing they think of, Yes, it's great, John, the last thing they think of is to do that. And in a funny way, in a funny way, it's counterintuity because, as I said in an earlier interview once with you lovely gentlemen, when I started my business, I think it was the last time I stopped reading the paper where the advert birds were for serious jobs, because I was that's what good of God? I chose to not be interested?

Really, yep? Why did I do that? Mark? Do you think?

Why did I choose to not be sidetracked? So you can focus on your objective? Correct? So we got back into the comfort.

Zone, totally correct, so I could give my give it my best shot and focus that's the word, and focus. On that. Now, Look, I'm going to give you a quick story. It's a beautiful story.

I've got to know John Bertrand very well. I think you know that anyway, without being melodramatic. I was asked to get a speaker for a car company for their national conference some years ago, not quite a few. And I said, okay, what's the what's the theme of the conference?

And the theme of the conference was focus? Okay now, I said, okay, Well I can I'll ask. I'll ask a couple of people. I said, would John Bertrand would you be interested in at Oh?

Can you get him? Yes, I'll try. Now. When I spoke to John, he was actually had a bit of a glint in his eye, you see, and he's a funny plug and he's clever as all well.

And he said, well, I've got. A story I can tell them because I didn't win the America's Cup And I went sorry, and he said, no, Dennis Connor has lost it. Because he was upbeat. He was to win when I was behind him and the last leg of that triangle, and the only way I could I could beat him was for him to lose focus.

And not mirror, if we go over this word again, not mirror what I would do to try to beat him, and half way up I saw wind on water, but he's grandparently conceded that he didn't see. And he said sort of to his team, they're crazy. We're not going to go out there. We're in front.

We'll just keep going where we are. Thank you very much. He won the America's Cup for the first time in one hundred and thirty two years. See you, lad of Dennis.

And he told two hundred and fifty people in camber at the convention Center when he got up that I said, I want to talk to you today about focus because I didn't win the America's Cup. Dennis kind has lost it when he could hurt a pindrop. But you see, that's what that's a sort of a roundabout answer to your question, John. If you start making.

Plans about what you're going to do, if you haven't got your job, well, it's sort of negative influence getting into your mind anyway, and that means you're not full on. You're looking sideways and not straight ahead. You could argue that's wrong too, because if you're flying an A three eighty, you better know what options you've got it if something goes wrong. So you're right and wrong follow provided that provided that the options don't take you off off staying the course, and that's a really big thing.

You've got to stay the course. So when you're when you're sixty sixty five, easy to give you, easy to say to easy to say, I won't go to the gym. See. One of the reasons that these eighty year old superages are fit and mentally is because they fit physically.

They walk, they exercise, they eat the right food, They mix with people, they go out a lot, they interact, they call what's what I called them communication intercourse with their friends. Yeah, it's very important stuff. Mental I call it mental gymnastics. If you can do that for your mind, you've got to do it for your body.

So the fitter you can be and worry it and think about you your diet and how you look and the clothes. These people out that are sixty sixty five. The easiest thing for them to do when they go for an interview. I made a note to talk about this is to wear what they always wear.

Basically, people wearing. What they should throw it out to be honest. And one of the things that there's a lot of female HR managers at the moment illustrator a lot of them. It's a niche they are in.

Well, I can tell you from research the first thing a female looks at in the guy. Is he shoes. Did you know that? Absolutely first thing they look at is your shoes.

That tells them all about your habits. So if a person is. Going to go for an interview, they've got to address the part that fits. They've got to have the hairstyle that fits.

They've got to have their clothes and shirt that's the right at fits. They've got to especially, they've got to have their shoes. And the last thing I've made a note of before we came into the interview, I was inside brushing my teeth. How at that is that?

That's what you've got to do as well. You've got to have personal high issues. You've got to put after shave on, and you've got to think about who you're meeting. And the other thing you've got to do is a bit like what I said before about BMW, you've got to keep your voice.

I know we're discussing things tonight, You've got to keep your voice modulated and speak slowly. Australians have a habit of speaking quick and people go, excuse me, pardon, Yeah, we have to slow down. It's very important to be articulate. So if you're going to go to you for an interview, you've got to be on show.

You're really on show, You're in a show, and so you've got to think like that. And the detail is of the paramount. Some very good points, some very good points, George. There's a list of things I think that help people get a job at sixty or sixty five and remain sane and valuable.

Fantastic, Thank very much. I think this has been a very good conversation because the key there is is. What is the first steps? And when you were going through the seven habits, it's.

Interesting, you know, George, I've actually got them here. They literally live above my PC here and they are just absolute gold. So definitely I'm with you. I recommend anyone who hasn't read the book read the book.

And there's also the Speed of Trust, which is another one from Franklin Covey, because it shows that the high trust organizations are low cost and highly efficient, whereas and highly nimble, whereas low trust are very slow and very inefficient. So it comes down now those elements really come through very strongly with the seven habits and sharpen the sore. And that's what this podcast series is very much about, is keep sharpening that saw, seek information. You know, while you're in the car drive have a.

Listen to George Parties wisdom because it's not just knowledge, it's wisdom and it's it will make life better for you. And that's the best part about and hopefully what we're contributing to the business audience here that through the podcast series here we have been doing for a number of years now, is just sharing the opportunities because life and business are the same thing. They all go through ebbs and flows. And George yet on the hit the nail on the head.

Because we've talked about opportunities and this podcast was born out of COVID and all the uncertainty that COVID industry. But you nailed it. And it was one of those hard moments when you're going through that list and you said, these podcasts and previous ones come back to one word, and that's risk. And then what do you do with that risk?

And how do you mitigate the risk, and how do you harness that risk? And if you're a risk taker, and I remember a very wise deal of principle said to me once when I was on a deal a trip with him. We're in a bus on our way to Barcelona airport. You know the difference between OEM people and dealers Mark.

And I said, what's that? And he said, we're risk takers, and the risk takers that you can lose, but you can also gain and win plenty. And it's through taking those risks, calculated risks, and backing yourself with the skills and the wisdom that you have, and then using the seven habits to sharpen the sore and then have those win win scenarios will ensure that your risk that you've taken will have the best possible outcome and you'll have a greater success and hopefully minimize losses which do come with them and flows.

That's excellent. I was reading and I'll put it in my book. They are finished tonight, which is pretty special to me. Today.

It's a big day, quite thank you. Quote by Warren Buffett and he was I won't say word for word, but he was talking about calmness and not letting people people's words affect you, but to remain a distant from them and be and be careful about being patient and not coming back too quickly, because if you let people's words worry you, then they've. Got the power. So when you're going for an interview, I just thought I thought of it when you were talking there, it's very important to be patient.

There will be words that will be said that may annoy you, worry you, hurt you. You've got you've got to have the book. There's a great book called White Faced, Black Heart, which is written by Japanese leg where your face doesn't show any emotion and you've got a armor around your heart, it can't affect you. And that's a philosophical modus operandi of the successful people in business.

Where As my mother used to say, sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me. But I remember her saying that that's what the new book's about. Not the new book, but that's what the book's about. So yes, you've got to be resilient.

And I think it comes back, isn't it. John. There's a theme through all these three interviews that the one word that comes through is being resilient, working on yourself and believing in yourself. But as you rightly say, taking steps to help you understand yourself through other people's wisdom.

Fantastic, thank you very much. Was really very interesting, okay, talk cent it was interesting from a different angle so that it was fascinating to enjoy that. Very very good. And there's always there's a little there's always a gem with George, there's always a gem.

Every conversation you pick up something, at least one thing. Today I picked up three or four and hopefully our listeners have picked up a number of gems from George as well. You paid a lot of money for those gems normally, but George has been kind enough to share that with us in this podcast and the series of podcasts. But yeah, well and truly worth it.

But definitely sharpening the saw and this part of the Seven Habits of Highly Effected People. Because I think especially in that first part where you went through the different stages you go through because you actually don't really think about that, but then you spoke about going through when you you know, you first upset about it and you go through the emotional stages and you do, it can be quite tough and that makes it so hard, you know, trying to get your head around it and at the end of the day and no one really cares.

Take you can mind it. Everyone your heart felt story and no one's really interested. Did you get your head around it? And then you move on?

It's interesting, George. I remember many years ago when I first met George and he was doing some coaching work with myself, and I'll never forget him saying to me, this would be ten years ago, and he said, what happens in the corporate world is we all get snacked into thinking that it's our business, but ultimately it's not. And that's why people who have their own businesses have a different level of stress versus people who are. In corporate roles.

And I remember having a conversation with a doctor about this and I said, why is there different stress levels between people? And he said, people who work for themselves can actually off regulate, whereas when you are in a corporate role and you've got shareholders or I've got overseas, parents or other entities that you have to report into, you actually have no control. So you have and this is where it gets down to the uncertainty that George talks about with the stress levels.

The stress levels are significantly higher because often you're working to objectives that have been top down and most often are not achievable, and that's why it's done that way, so that you can the organization can churn people through. They bring people in who are in their forties. They know that in your forties your competitive, you're driving your destiny, You're going. To climb up the ladder.

So they target those individuals, usually tertiary qualified, because they have been institutionalized to work in large corporations. And that's all about stepping the ladder because the benefits are there. There's the trappings, there's the prestige, there's the remuneration, and there's all the other benefits that go with it. But it's company cards, healthcare, all this other sort of stuff.

It's sort of bundled in. But it can go just like that, and it's something that you don't realize can actually happen until there's a merger and acquisition. Suddenly you've gone from being a superstar here someone else has brought to you. You've suddenly you don't have a godfather anymore.

You now need to be moved out because there's a structure over here that's taking that role. And suddenly you realize, oh, it wasn't my company, wasn't I wasn't the master or my own destiny. I was still taking a risk by doing what I was doing. But ultimately I'm getting paid week to week, and there may be a seference that you get and it might be a nice one, might be a year, it might be three months, it might be one month, or it could be six months, but ultimately it finishes.

So then there's the stress of what I need to do, What do I do next? So there's a lot of things that George covered off that that scenario can play out in a number of different ways. But what do you do and then how do you maintain the mental health to then go off and do something else? Another role?

Do you stay in the industry, do you do something else? Do you pivot and do you go make pizzas in Ballina or something like that? Who knows? There s there's a whole loup of different choices out there.

So flyfishing and Tasmania's I remember that they're corporate. Coach was saying to me that he's got a stack of clients that are in their mid forties that want to go fly fishing in Tasmania. Because the stress of VA good corporate is just killing them. But you know, flyfishing in Tasmania is not necessarily a sustainable business model, So these are the sort of things.