The importance of PR & Sales with Michael Grahamslaw (Northern Insight Magazine)

Speaker 1: Well, hello and welcome to the super Connector Show, where I'm delighted to be joined by Michael Grahams Law who is the founder and managing director of Northern Insight Magazine.

Speaker 2: How you doing, Michael, I'm good, Paul and many thanks for the invitation to join our show.

Speaker 3: I'm very flatid to be asked. So all right.

Speaker 1: Well, you deserve to be here because of all the things that you've done over the years. So I'll just quickly rattle through some of it. So you founded Northern Insight Magazine in twenty fifteen, so yeah, a couple eleven years ago, and it's one of the Northeast of England's leading publications where you cover business, property, media, technology, education, motors, arts and leisure among other things. It is a very popular and it's an important publication I think for the region. But before but as well as that, you've spent about thirty years working in some of the readings leading magazine and newspaper titles as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm thirty six years now in the in the wonderful world of media, which I can't quite believe.

Speaker 4: I don't quite believe.

Speaker 2: I've long since lost me doll care but I know I was very fortunate I started, you know, I did A levels, had a place to go to Birmingham University to study English and drama, and I decided to take a year out. I saw a job advertised in the job set. That's how long ago it was what was new Castle Chronicle and Journal, and I'm all I started there about two or three weeks after I left school, and and I found that newspapers and magazines were were just something that I just loved from day one really and a few ups and downs along the way. But here I am in thirty sixty year out. It's fair to say I've never went back to university.

Speaker 1: The University of Life, School of Life. Yeah, it's back at the beginning then, So when when would that have been? Roughly what, yeah, would that have been?

Speaker 2: It was let me think about this. So I've finished my A levels in early late late June nineteen ninety.

Speaker 3: And what happened was that I say I saw a job.

Speaker 2: I saw a job basically advertised for in the telephone sales department as I see the Chronicle in Journal now. At the time they had a motus magazine called Orto Weekly, which was very much the the direct competitor at the time to order trailer. So the initial job that I got was was basically selling, asking people to to advertise their road and private cause for for sale within the magazine. And it was very low like basic, I will you rate and you made most of your money on commission. So what happened was that the initial office that I was based in was in Shieldfield where the biscuit factory is now the current of the sales office over there, and every night you stuff to log in and and put your name on the board and you log all your sales, and that was really the start of it. And what happened was I was one evening so that's I mean. First boss was a guy called David Stones. It was it was a fantastic man. So David ran basically ran the whole magazine. But obviously through the day you had the trade stuff, the people wh would sell the garages. They were they were all full full time employed, and I worked in the evenings. Anyway, there was one night David. It was a real curry come back in the obviously was all is the type to go for a beer or two after work, and this particular evening he says, who's Mike, and can like stand up? And that was me And then about two and off hours I registered some like thirty eight.

Speaker 3: Sales, which at the type was like a bit of a record.

Speaker 2: I don't know where it came from really, but so what what happened was David he said, I think you should come on a chat with us, and then so I went to say that a couple of days after and he offered me a job with a trade team, then obviously then working with the garages, and and.

Speaker 3: Again on a tele I couldn't drive, then.

Speaker 2: On a telephone sales basis, and I found that I took to that as well, and that was that was really the start of the journey.

Speaker 3: And I was there for only about.

Speaker 2: Just under three years, but there was three of the most enjoyable I know, it was right at the store of my career, but there were three of the most enjoyable years of me working life because I worked with a great, great area of characters.

Speaker 3: When I was there, and and obviously I was only young.

Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was eighteen, and I met some great people there, a couple of who mustles you know want in particular sills to the odd time to this day, and that was that was the start of the journey.

Speaker 3: And I'm not kidd you it seems like yesterday.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's good because because a lot of people the first job, it's not necessarily a great experience. But to find somewhere where it sounds like you hit the ground running and you did, you drived in that environment and have someone that maybe took you under their wing as well and saw the potential and you and encourage you. But also it's a nice feeling, isn't it if you if you're successful and and you're making money as well from this.

Speaker 2: Well, David was an amazing guy. I mean, he was a maverick David, you know he you know you love to drink, you love garmber a bet, but he was. He was a great, great guy. I always always had a lot of time for you and I and I remember, obviously, as I say, we were the direct directly opposite the Order trailer. It was a huge magazine in its day, and the holy grail was to get at the time was getting Benfield Motors to to advertise and Order and they would in touch with because they're all, you know, steeped. As I said, that in the order trailer. Anyway, somehow I managed to get a meeting with the guy at the time, it was the marketing director there, and I'll always remember David my boss said, you know, this is the wrong way you come to the meeting, but I'll front it. And that was the first time in my life I really felt I was in the presence of it. Like obviously I'm from the world of sales. He was.

Speaker 3: David was a wonderful salesman and he just he.

Speaker 2: Made the when the up getting Binfield into the magazine that became long term advertisers with those times there and but the have an influence with me a lot, you know, when I look back, because as I said, when he was just he was just brilliant with people, brilliant. So yes, I learned a lot when I was there, and some good stories along the way, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've had you've had a few different commercial roles and then and then the magazine that you've got. Now you're well, you're the managing director. But a lot of what you're doing is not only sourcing the stories and doing the interviews and meeting the clients or the the people who've got the stories to tell. But you're also on the commercial side as well, so you're selling advertising as well.

Speaker 4: So it's a lot.

Speaker 1: You're spending a lot of plates and you're doing a lot of what it sounds like you love it all, but like what you enjoyed the most out of what you do.

Speaker 3: I still I still enjoy more than ever.

Speaker 2: Going out to sea. People like nothing more than than a face first meeting m as you know, Paul I was. You know, I really like events as well. You know, you know recent platform comments which was absolutely superb. I like nothing better than that. I mean, I did find as all of us did. You know. COVID was a very it was a very difficult period. And then I think the the aftermath of COVID for probably eighteen months to two years with with remote working, I think it you know, people lost, some people lost the more Joe, and then some got into a bit of a road to a bit of a come to and and people well, well less lately they want to say, ye, there was a lot of you know, a lot of teams meeting zoom meetings and they're just not the same.

Speaker 3: And I actually went I don't mind sharing this.

Speaker 2: I went through a period probably last year where without it just crept up on me really when I started to just feel a little bit stale.

Speaker 3: And we still had a reasonable year with the magazine.

Speaker 2: But what I got the Christmas and I sent me why right, I had a long break over Christmas because I don't do with January issue. It's the one decent break I get over the year, and I st in the new year, I'm going to get myself back out there and there as many meetings.

Speaker 3: As I can. And there's nothing's changed really.

Speaker 2: We've got all the technology in the world, but ultimately, in my opinion, nothing is changed in the respect of you know, there's nothing beats going to see somebody, because if you don't do that, you have no chance of engendering any good will and long term relationships which you need to keep any business going.

Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, no, I agree, Well, do you know.

Speaker 1: Obviously I've run a lot of events, but I go to other people's events and I enjoy doing that and have lots of face to face meetings. I use a lot of technology as well, but nothing, nothing beats like meeting someone in person, and definitely not the energy that you can get from other people, and you can give to other people, and when you build some rapport with them and you head it off and then you might not see them again for months, but like you know that you've got that connected. Like me and you, right don't see each other a lot, but I really liked you, and we built a bit of a report, I think, and then with whatever we see each other, I always feel good when I taught you, Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well it was funny because obviously it's a plug for yourself, but I mean it's sincerely when last month, when you had your recent platform conference, that particular idea was I think from memory about two days before the deadline for my I think what I think was the day of the me issue. I think it was with the June edition, and and on the day itself, I thought I can I really didn't feel I could spare the time committed, but I've never lit like like I let people down. And the minute I got to the event and saw people that some people that I knew, and then and then listening to the various speaker stories, and I came away re energized, you know, and ultimately all I had to do was just work a little bit. Later that evening I had to be able to share experience with lots of really good, like minded people, which which I really enjoyed.

Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: I'm glad and when I'm glad you were there because but I know how it is, like, especially if you've got loads on, like there's it like there was an event yesterday which which was great, but I could.

Speaker 4: Only be there in the in the morning.

Speaker 1: But yeah, I had other things I really could have gone, but I'm glad I went. And and yeah, I'm the same. I always, I always feel I was. I never regret going to an event, always with something, whether it is just a new idea, a great conversation.

Speaker 2: It's like exercise, really, isn't it. You think we never regret it's something hard to do it, but then when you've done exercise, I tried some of the most ard afterwards. Never regret.

Speaker 1: No, and and and you're right, definitely because of COVID and coming out of COVID, I think people forgot the value of face to face meetings. I'll going to events and maybe that maybe some people have still forgotten it or they've never experienced it. But there's definitely took a couple of years to get get back into the being a demand for it, which which is why I didn't do any in person events for two years. I actually went back into employment for two years working in tech recruitment until until I felt like the time was right to do events again and also I got my mojo back as well, I wanted to do well.

Speaker 2: I think I think what I probably underestimated in the early stage, you know, then proaor of COVID. You know, I was obviously it was established in the brand, establishing the magazine. But then as time goes on, you know, you've still got to keep challenging yourself, you know, all of the time, and you've got to get out there and get new business and new and you can also you don't do it deliberately. The job and quite isolating sometimes and it's only but particularly let's see, you have a tough period which happens with everybody that you then think that you're the only person in the world that's having that those sort of challenges, and it's only by going to events and also meetings face to face, like like you learn that everybody else's experienced on the same journey.

Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, definitely, I know that just personally, I've learned over the edge of like, if I'm feeling really stressed or like I've got a lot on, I tend to go inward and I tend to like stop them talking to people, Like but actually the best thing for me to do in that situation is to actually get out and talk to people. But it's it's because I'm like, I've just got so much going on, and I'm like, I've got I've got to focus on this, and.

Speaker 4: I can't spare the time to get away from me.

Speaker 1: The best thing is to get out out of the house and meet people and then and then I'm back and up like right again. Yeah, we've just had the King of Event organized event hosts Alfie Joey's just commented the saying, always good to see you both at any event.

Speaker 4: You always feel always feel good when you see him in.

Speaker 2: The event or no question, and Alphie makes things look because we all know these things aren't easy, but he makes it look easy, you know what. I've seen him presenting the Differings super Guy out of the Region.

Speaker 4: So yeah, you know it's amazing.

Speaker 1: So tell us a bit more about the magazine and why you started it, Like what what was what was the run up to that?

Speaker 2: Well, I mean I obviously had you know, a lot of time of the you know story careers I see the Chroniclin Journal, and then I had the best part of or twenty twenty three years, I mean I worked for I worked for it, you know as well know when I worked for all these Times magazine through the nineties. With with that, that was an interesting because when I went from the Chronicle obviously where I was, I ended up being a more as rep you know. But when I went, when I went and all these Times, I was then dealing with a much so many more different types of businesses. And at the time I was, I.

Speaker 3: Was only that I had only been twenty one twenty two.

Speaker 2: When I started there, and I went from quite a big team the Chronicle to.

Speaker 3: Know these things was family owned.

Speaker 2: So I was really all of a sudden like quite quite a big fish, you know, and like a little pond as it were. And the boss I had at the time, hey, he suffered with bipolar disorder, and so I hadn't been there very long and he took me and he was off for like quite a long period. And whilst that was very difficult when I look back in some degrees that was that was the making of us, you know, because I was then dealing with all of the big accounts that the that the magazine had, as well as established and new accounts myself, so so that that would be be in class at the time is like what was known as like a county magazine. So I kind of cutk me teeth. That was when I went the monthly publication. That's where that's when I like cook me teeth. And then from there I had a fourteen year period with what was Accent magazines where you know, I had, you know, some good times, you know, some great, good, good memories along the way, but I had always Harbard ambitions to to work for myself, you know that. So I got to the age of I lost both my parents in twenty fourteen, which I think that was quite a big moment in my life, and the following year I thought, I if I don't go alone now, I'm never going to do it. I was turning forty three, i think then, and I had always felt that that was the gap. Obviously there's a good magazines, great magazines out there, but I had genuinely thought that was a gap for like a, you know, a really good quality business and leisure magazine for the Northeast region. So it's funny because when I look back, I didn't have any grand business plan. I'm afraid to say I could tell you that I had. I had had the working title of Northern Insights. And what I did was I literally approached all of the many, many contacts that I that I'd made over the years and said, look, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to make it a really high quality magazine for the Northeast region. We're trying it at the best places. Would you would you be interested in like coming on board? You know, because obviously I had to get the commercial sides up and running first and foremost the way, and I thought of me, so I'm going to said, I'm never simulate the team. I know very early on whether whether this will work. And from the first meeting to getting the first magazine published was a period of about including weekends, about forty eight years, and I did. I did something like one hundred face to face meetings in that period and converted most of them in some shape or form, and that was that I was off and running. So the first issue was July twenty fifteen, and now we're coming up to one hundred.

Speaker 3: And twenty fifth edition.

Speaker 2: It was funny though, because when I look back, out of all of those, all of those issues.

Speaker 3: Probably the hardest one we ever did was Issue Too because.

Speaker 2: Dally what it was like, it was it was building up to get to get this thing out and then obviously got it launched, and you know what creates a launch party in town and wonderful feedback and then of course.

Speaker 3: Once we hung over together but Baker.

Speaker 2: Uh so, but it's that that's where it started.

Speaker 1: Well done, well done, Well well done for getting started, because like lots of people think about doing things and then and they never get around to doing it.

Speaker 4: That's like people maybe underestimate how difficult that is.

Speaker 1: But then yeah, to keep going for for that long and that many issues, it's it's not easy because you're you're spinning a lot of plates.

Speaker 4: You know, it's said, it's people.

Speaker 1: If you've not worked in any sort of publication, whether it's print or online, people have got no idea what what goes into it. And all the different people that you're dealing with, I don't know what sort of spreadsheet you have or what the systems you have, or it's all in your head or it's all in your inbox, but.

Speaker 2: Probably of everything really, But I mean, the best if people ask me, what if people if there was one we could describe put what we're putting a monthly magazine together as like it's a kind of doing like a ten thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. That's how it feels. But you've got a twenty months Yeah, that's how it feels. But I mean it's and of course there's times where you where you're you're tearing your your hair out to doing it, and you know, but then things start a click and it's and it's to this to this.

Speaker 3: Day, I still got a huge buzz.

Speaker 2: You know. I think I've done one hundred and twenty four counting Northern Insights all of the other magazines in the twenty or twenty five years before then, and I still get a huge buzz when the when the product comes out. But it's interesting one because once I'm finished the magazine and it's at the printers, and then when the new issue comes out, obviously you hope, you know you and we'll get some nice positive feedback. Or my current mard looks great, and it's sometimes I have to stop because in my own head that's that's in the rear view mirror, because I'm on the next one. So it's it's and it is important to stop. I'm reflecting and improving. But that's the best way to describe putting it putting it together pools. But I still got a huge buzz from it. And despite its frustrations, and don't get me wrong, there are very that there were a lot of them. Sometimes I feel very blessed that I'm able to say that because a lot of people wake up in the morning that you know, they they know what the day is good the next day, and I was the day is going to bring My day is never like that. You know, good bad, and just rare on the side of good as much as you can.

Speaker 1: So what's so do you when it goes to print? Do you take a bit of time out? Do you take like your day I t off or you straight back onto the next one?

Speaker 2: No? I try to what I didn't used to do this, but we always try and work with print slot now. So it goes to press on a Friday, and ordinarily by that last day, and really my work is done. I've normally signed the job off with Loo my design of the day before, so that last day.

Speaker 3: Quite often now I'm trying to a whole hour around the golf.

Speaker 2: For go out.

Speaker 4: You know, it's important to do that, I think.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've and I've learned as i've as I've went along. You have to take your breaks. You know. It's it's futile just to just keep working and work. You do need to try and switch off it. But again that's when it's your own You'll know this port it's not always easy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely that's one bit of advice I'll give anyone start their own business, I'll running their own businesses. Take your holidays and don't don't feel bad about or guilty about taking time off, even if it's like midweek or even just in the middle of the day or whatever. If you need that time to a bit of a break, it's it's important to do it because the stuff. There's some days where I wake up and I'm not really in the mood for doing any work.

Speaker 4: But like, but but I'm always one, I am always on the go, I'm always doing stuff.

Speaker 1: But ei there's some days where I'm not really feeling like this, so I'll maybe walk the dog or go I'll do something different or but then then I'm in the mood for it. And then once I get going, I find it hard to stop.

Speaker 4: Sometimes.

Speaker 3: Yeah, So like I might not get in the zone, don't you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I might not be in the mood to start at eight o'clock or nine o'clock or maybe ten o'clock, eleven o'clock. But then yeah, as long as it doesn't interfere too much with the family. I'm like, sometimes I'm working till seven or eight o'clock at night, but the next day I might not.

Speaker 2: And I get things, and I've often wondered, if you know, we want to get to take this, and I'm suther do I get at times where perhaps don't want to pick the let's see, let's see looking for new business. You know, the way I was trained obviously was going to pick the telephone up and speak to people. And I got days where that's the last thing I want to do, you know, And then you make two or three calls. You may make a good call, and then you're back in the mix, and then you know, but people that would surprise people after all thirty six years that, but I still get those fears regularly, think, God, I don't I don't really, I'm not don't feel up the tone of people, and I just want to work on a email and that's and I hate working. That's really, you know, that's it's bizarre really when you know, you think, why do I go through these emotions? But but you do, and I think probably it's quite a good thing because it keeps you grounded and it keeps you on your toes.

Speaker 1: Have you got any advice for people on that then, because there's a lot of people who hate sales, I'll say they hate ital else are they're uncomfortable doing it or they don't like picking up the phone. And but then you have you have to make Every business has to make sales. You've got to sell, and you've got the lifebload of any business. And yes, you can use technology and you can try and know what I meate and but at some point you're gonna have to talk to someone. But so, have you got any tips or things that get you, like, keep you motivated, or get you going to pick up the phone?

Speaker 2: Well?

Speaker 3: I was something quite recently that I was at an event and somebody said, I think it.

Speaker 2: Was possibly a North Business Form event. See if if have a fooler on your computer and if somebody could like share you know, you do something good, save your email and that folder, so you're like like a fuller of positivity if you like.

Speaker 3: So if you're feeling a bit flattening thing, I kind of do this. In my case, I kind of do this job anymore, just.

Speaker 2: Try and look back. It's sometimes we think, well, you've been given a bit of prayers somewhere. When it was our one hundredth edition, I got, you know, I got some wonderful testimonials about the magazine. And so I actually have that on hundredth issue next to me desk. And it's not for vanity purposes. It's just sometimes picking it up and think, well, somewhere along the line, I must have got something right. So I find that that puts me then normally in a more of a positive frame of mind. So really, you've you've just got to just try and get stuck in, you know. And but I love you know, I love podcasts, I love listen.

Speaker 3: I love reading and listen you know, anything that can just give you that push.

Speaker 2: I find it helps for me, you know, so it be difficult to pick out one particular thing or a bit of advice, but you know, try and remember when you've done things right, you know, in what the process has been, and try and also think of when you've been at your best. You know, it's I tend to find with them with things with the magazine and and it's this has never changed in thirty plus years. When I finished an edition, obviously you've worked with that.

Speaker 3: Like a big deadline. You get it to the printers and it just breathing a enormous sigh of.

Speaker 2: Relief, and then you get like a feeling of anti climax almost for a couple of days, and you think, to do this again. That feeling has never left me in thirty years. But what I tend to find is is the month goes on, it's almost like I can bestride It's it's it's quite difficult to explain, really, you know, it's definitely like a process. You know, yeah, and you can't be And I've also learned as much as frustration, you can't be it that maximum all of the time.

Speaker 1: You know, there is a process you've got well, you've gotta trust the process and you've got comes with experience, you like, you know, you've been there through that before, and it's you can't you can't force it to be different.

Speaker 4: You've got to You've got to go throughs. So I always remember the.

Speaker 1: Very first big event I did, the Newcastle Start at Week Festival, the first time I did that five day, monthly venue, city wide event over six hundred people.

Speaker 4: Twenty seventeen. And do you know, I'm sure you do.

Speaker 1: Gim Moudesley, Yes, famous event organizer and promoter, used to be involved in Shindig and did the Evolution Festival and he's now head of bigger, big events at Newcastle City Council or the North of Time and he's doing like mobiles and Mercury Awards and all this sort of stuff. He said to us after the first event, have you had event crash yet? And I was like I have, because he's like, yeah, every time you do a big event, Yeah, you get going and you're building up momentum, isn't it. You're winding up and then it's exciting, things are clicking in the gear and then you put on this amazing thing. And then the first event I remember, brilliant five days, such a boze. Everything's great, packing on the bat. That's not why I did it, but you know, it was just great. Everyone was happy.

Speaker 4: And then the next morning I woke up and it was just like there's nothing to do. It's just silent. It's quiet.

Speaker 2: It's like, well, I remember when I was at school.

Speaker 3: I probably first experienced it then because I did a lot of.

Speaker 2: I Love drama when I was at school and that probably helped us and the job ended up going into But I remember doing like a big school show and I had the leading the show, and we prepared for it for about six months and six months for what was I think like three nights worth of performances, and I remember after the a third night, you know, was obviously still on on a real high. In the next morning, I woke up and I remember it like it was yesterday. I felt absolutely bereft, you know, And that was the first time I experienced it, and I have experienced similar with the magazine. It's it's it's you know, but and I try to think, you know, try and think, well, this is what's coming, but it's, you know, it's I just kind of help, but it's just it's just something that's there you know, yeah, don't worry about it because I think, well again you've just you've just when you said trust the process that well, this is what happens, start against you know, and but it just didn't wresting really, you know, go matter what you said earlier about the about about the world of sales, I would always be a pains to say it's a very underestimated career sales because there's so much that that goes into it. So if anybody, if anybody wanted to work in sales, you just get some great sales training from it, you know, some you know, some wonderful like you know books to start on your way. You know that the outwind friends and influence people deal Corney a very famous book about dealing with people, which is you know, a multi probably million sellers. People still used to this day referred to, you know, because it's it's it's such a nuanced profession because you have to deal with so many different people in different characters, and you've almost got to be our feel at times, like have been a psychologist, because everybody human beings at the end of the day, you know.

Speaker 1: And there's so much psychology involved in in sales and selling, and it's definitely something I've tried. Well, I'm still trying to get better at sales because my inclination is to be more marketing, communication, messaging, community.

Speaker 4: Engagement, building, awareness sort of thing.

Speaker 1: But I've been in teams in the past, someone else it's been their job to do the sales, Like my job has been to do the marketing and get people interested in what we're doing. But then someone else has been it's their job to do the conversion and get the sale over the line. But then when you've got your own business, you have to you have to do that. And and I'm much more I'm like soft sell. I'm you know, I'm oh yeah, yeah, And I can sell, and I clearly can sell, but I'm my inclination is to not sell. It's to be more marketing. And I've got to remind myself regularly to to actually ask for the sale and they do the conversion.

Speaker 2: Well, I would prefer to think of myself. Some others might see it different, but I prefer to think of myself like that. It's a conversation, you know, it's a conversational style of selling and getting to know people. That that's what I enjoy you know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's what is it going to say?

Speaker 1: There's a good there's a good book called the Joelt Effect, right, yeah, I've read that about a year ago and basically the ve analyzed like millions of sales calls to work out what what success looks like. And yeah, what they're saying now in the modern day, like I'm teaching you how to suck like I'm not con the the old, classic, old style of sales is like pain in this future vision, this utopia, come with those and evidence is gonna be great. You know, we're gonna solve all your problems, right, and that that might be true, But now people are even if they know that they want this thing, people are so scared of messing up and making the wrong decision that they just don't make any decision, right. Yeah, And they say, now, it's not the fear of missing out, it's the fear of messing up.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So yeah, they say, this joint effect is like it's.

Speaker 1: Really really import now that not only to do the sales they're selling, but it's you have to spend a lot of time reassuring people that everything's going to be all right once they've made that decision and what's going to happen after they've bought something.

Speaker 4: And what's the after care going to be like? And yeah, yeah, and that's why a lot of people don't know that. They don't realize that that's what people are working on this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes people are like, I know this is the right thing, but I'm not confident my colleagues are going to do a good job of this.

Speaker 4: So it's really really interesting.

Speaker 2: When I worked at the Evening Chronicle, people gon't believe it when when I tell them this. But when I worked on the telephones, when this was the same. When I moved to the trade team, I had to make thirty five calls of authority a day, so that was to thirty five. Well, I worked with the motors, so obviously initially thirty five garage ronas or motive franchisers or Bardi agents. And obviously this was long before technology, so it was all manual. In your calls used to get back checked, so, you know, because people used to make them up. And but that discipline of picking up the phone sometimes even now, I don't sit down and I'm going to make thirty five calls, but I do, right, I'm gonna have a morning if they just I'm on the phone this morning. It's if you have in the right in the right zone, as it were, it's it's it's really stimulating.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah once once you get going, but not the hardest.

Speaker 2: It is just it yeah, yeah, no question. Yeah. Is it?

Speaker 1: Is it certain days, are certain times of the week that you that you do that, or is it just whenever the week?

Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because this hasn't been delivered on on on on my part. But I think what I've realized is is that is I've went along through the journeys. You know, I'm definitely I'd love to do with some kind of study on this. I'm definitely better in the first half of the week. You know. I always try to do me key work Monday at Thursday lunchtime, shall we say. I find on a Friday, I don't know whether it's just just a mental thing as much as I that's by a Friday. I've always done this, like I've was lot of the administrative stuff I try to do on a Friday if I've got to like right right in the articles, So do a lot to be planning on a Friday afternoon because so I find like, so answer your question, if I'm going to do like, let's see a lot of cans, and I'll do like on a Monday or Tuesday, you know, so attend just the way things that time has gone on. I tend to work long days on a Monday and Tuesday, really trying and break the back of the week, you.

Speaker 1: Know, yeah, when you've got a bit more energy and your yeah, yeah, yeah, well it makes sense, isn't it if you if you've had the weekend, I'm not working, and then you've got more energy and you're a bit more fired up, and yeah, will willing to put it depicts in And then as the time goes on, you yeah, you're given a lot on you so you're yeah, you're not going to have as much watch fuel in the tank.

Speaker 3: Then I've definitely found that, you know. I remember a client his long time.

Speaker 2: It was a big climbing for many many years, and I mean being he's probably could be in his seventies now. I still say him sporadically, and any one said to me, he's just says, you know, I remember one saying just you know, as he was approaching retirement, he says, you know, you know, Mike, I get tired now, you know, and I think I have to try and I don't know by the way, I don't always manage it, but I think I have to manage my own energy better now, if that makes sense. We've only got a finite amount of it and we can all spread without realizing it. We can all spread ourselves too. Thingly, you know, I have to be aware of you know. Yeah, I mean burnout is everywhere. We'll say it all of the time. The there's articles in the magazine every single month from some the coach as well combating burnout and recognizing the signs.

Speaker 3: I went with a great seminar in relation on the turn of the other the Entrepreneurs Forum run m HM, and it was it was a really fascinating, like round table discussion. And I think it's business owners that it's something that we have to be extremely mindful of, you know. There there's so many polls on my time now with with technology.

Speaker 2: You know, so.

Speaker 1: Because you can especially if it's something that you like doing. But if if you it is hard to switch off like you can just there's always more that you can do. Yeah, there's definitely some some nights or even on a Friday. Sometimes I don't want to stop. I want to keep going because like there's there's more that I want to do. But like, but I don't like I usually don't do any work on a on a weekend, or even if I do, if there's like a really pressing deadline, I'll do a little bit and I'll yeah, do it when you when people are still in bed, when the family is still in bed, and because I like getting early. So just northern inside, right, You're you're you've been in this quite privileged position, I suppose, and that you get to hear about meet so many amazing things and hear so many great.

Speaker 4: Stories and stuff.

Speaker 1: Just what's your take on I know you're going to say it's amazing, but what what's your take on the Northeast region? Like, what what's its strength and what's its weaknesses? I'm going to put you on the spot here.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's a great question, Paula. Obviously you know I'm born, born and Britain region that I think the the strength, Oh, it's I think a lot of people, which is to me the strength if the Northeast is it's people. You know, I think we have a you know what, tremendously positive.

Speaker 3: What think we're very resilient.

Speaker 2: When I said, when I set Northern Insight up, as.

Speaker 3: I said earlier, I wasn't sure.

Speaker 2: I wasn't sure how it would go, whether I get it off the ground, and the support that I had from you know, many many people was was unbelievable in something that.

Speaker 3: You know, I'll never forget.

Speaker 2: And I think we've got some some really really smart, intelligent people in the region running some fantastic We've got some fantastic businesses. And it is a privileged it's a magazine and I and I remember alluding to this when we did our one hundredth edition, because there's always something new happening in the region.

Speaker 3: There's always something new to report on.

Speaker 2: As you know, I went to the opening of the new Freight Island bar at Alton Square.

Speaker 4: I think I'm due to go there next week.

Speaker 2: Absolutely stunning addition to the leisure scene and in in Newcastle, you know. So the strength would would be the people here and then the resilience and and and and I think that we're tremendously hard working. Mm hmm. I think one of the.

Speaker 3: Probably the only.

Speaker 2: Weakness is that I don't. I think there's people talented, people appeal you can prove up against anybody in the country. And I don't think we're always I think the songs to be guilty, you're not talking ourselves up enough, you know. That's whether that's just something that's in the regional day an air. I think that sings a little bit chy to shout from the rooftops for successes. I do think we're getting better, you know. Yeah, it's funny because, like you know, in terms of running the magazine. You know, obviously I spend my life promoting everybody else's businesses, and when I came to Landmarks a wave hard like one hundred issue had to be coaxed to go on the cover of that one, you know. And it is because I didn't want to shout about what we've done, you know, because I thought, well, what a platform for other people to promote themselves. That's how I look at it, first and foremost, Well, so I think I think what I think as a region, we're gonna be guilty of that.

Speaker 1: Sometimes I agree, well, well that's that what you are, that you deserve that platform. So that that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this with you today because I think I really appreciate like what you do and what their media titles do. I think it's really important for people to to say and hear about all the great things going on in the region. And and sometimes it's hard to coax that information out out of businesses and organizers. Is like to say, whether they don't want to put themselves forward, or they don't necessarily see the the value or the importance of of getting getting information out about them, not only to the wider world, but for their own leagues as well. It's it's they like saying and reading about them in print. And there's this in this increasingly digital world. I think there's nothing like being in print.

Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1: If we get a piece of positive media coverage in a magazine or or a newspaper, it's it's.

Speaker 4: I've got all the press cuttings that we've ever had. I'm really proud when I when I say it.

Speaker 2: Well, well, obviously it's an obvious thing that I get asked all of the time as a magazine or and what you know, what is the future of printing generally and magazines in particular, And you only have to look at the proliferation of magazine titles that are out there and are still opening and launching.

Speaker 3: You know, I'm very confident that that magazines will continue.

Speaker 2: To evolve in prosperous we go forward. Things like in terms of my own magazine. You know, when we come out like society events like charity balls and and you fundraisers and stuff like that. People of this day they still love to get that picture in. Yeah, you'll getttle extra copies for the family. And you know, it's and obviously the you know, the digital as its place, but I think it's that's a lot more like almost transactional.

Speaker 3: It's see the day gone tomorrow.

Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas you know, a magazine is something you can you can hold on the in covered, you know, yeahing around the night.

Speaker 1: There's there's definitely times when if I've gone to a meeting with a new client or maybe new sponsor or partner for our events, I've I've taken magazines with me to show them and they're always impressed.

Speaker 4: The more impressed by that.

Speaker 1: I think than me showing the website or or something online. So it is it is important. Here's here's a thought. This is just popped in in my head, right, But I think regionally, yeah, maybe a bit shy or like do a bit more about talking about our successes and celebrating Like regionally.

Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you might already do this, but if.

Speaker 1: I'm wondering if some of some of your magazines could be or should be shared with people outside of the region as well.

Speaker 2: But no doubt, Paul, I mean to be honest with you, that's something that we don't do enough of. But it's certainly something I would look at definitely. You know, my my when I when I originally working all these times in the nineties, my old boss used to send a magazine a month to the Queen, you know, right, yeah, good, And I think you sent one a Downing Street as well. It's it's not I have to say, it's not something I've ever done, which is probably remiss of me.

Speaker 4: You know, it might be might be worth worth doing. I don't know, because.

Speaker 1: In the in the past, right, So I think about this a lot, right, So like my business in particular, it's just like yours. It's about celebrating and promoting and shine the light on great things going on in the Northeast right, But I do share a lot online and I have people follow me all over the UK and overseas, so I'm always.

Speaker 4: Like people do pick up on it.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 4: But in the past I used to do a job.

Speaker 1: There was an organization called Tech North, which is an organization set up to promote the North of England. There's a great place to start and go to tech business. Right, So every week I was in Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield Hole, Sunderland, Newcastle. That was my patch, right, So I was always in Manchester every Monday, and then usually the other places or or at least I would be taking to people in those different locations.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 1: And there is a difference that there is something called like the mank Union swagger, right the monks are really confident and happy to talk about how great they are and sell themselves.

Speaker 4: And you know, think about Oasis.

Speaker 1: You know you've got Happy Mondays, You've got all these like big characters from from the Northwest too, or very Manchester United, you know Manchester City that there's there's a confidence and a swagger about the Northwest.

Speaker 4: Northeast doesn't necessarily have, right. But then even.

Speaker 1: Because I was in Manchester a lot I would say to people, what, what's Manchester got the other reason I'm got and there would they would say, particularly the political leadership that would regularly en mass send people down to London. Yeah, and I don't think the Northeast has done that very well in the past. It Yeah, well, maybe doing it a bit more now with like Kim McGuinness and people around. But I'm talking about not just Kim McGinness in her team. I'm talking about as business leaders, people who can go and represent the region positively on a regular basis.

Speaker 4: Maybe your magazines could just be part of that.

Speaker 2: Well, we did run a story that was you probably so a month or two ago. I think there was fifty female founders went with CAM down to Downing Street, some of whom are clients, which I was great.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: The more we're gonna encourage and develop links like that, the better, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, But I think I'm going to make a note to do this a bit more, like take copies of your magazine.

Speaker 2: If I go to.

Speaker 1: London, ORF, I'll go outside the region and give them the people because there's there's people do want to know what's going on and they've got no idea and I often get people saying to me, or we want to do something in the Northeast, but we're done a where to start, or like we've heard that you're connected or you know what's going on and I'll give them advice or whatever. But people aren't just going to on a win, get on the train or getting a plane into the Newcastle or Sunderland or or where over in the north Northeast. But if they're regularly seeing news and positive stories.

Speaker 4: About the region, yeah, then encourage the Yeah.

Speaker 1: So I think Kim McGinnis and her team shouldn't have copies of yours.

Speaker 2: Everywhere to go easily organize that came.

Speaker 4: Have you watching this.

Speaker 1: Once one you haven't presenting k Storm or Andy Burnham or whoever is going to be the Prime Minister handing him a copy of the Northern Insight next time you see them to what's is anything Well, you've said free Island. Is anything else coming up that you that you're excited about in the in the region.

Speaker 2: Well, it's obviously the Lockhead Morton involvement with with the the space sites. I think it's really heads that I went to a conference stated recently down at Judgment Deal. Well you put us on the spot there, Paul, I'm sure I've got you know, as as soon as the finishing this school.

Speaker 3: I think the lords that I could have said.

Speaker 4: I tell you a couple of times.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'll tell you when I'm sat in Sundon, right. I'm originally from gates Head and I've always done stuff across the whole of the North Is but I've mostly worked in Newcastle and gates Heads, but I've like visited Sundron a lot over the years, gone to meetings or events. But but I've been living in Sundon for the last two and a half years, right, and this there is so much going on in the city. It's really genuinely exciting place to be. And I think there's still a lot of people who are on from Sudon who don't believe it, or like that they haven't they're not paying enough attention, or football rivalry is still a big thing, you know. They don't want to accept that Sundon's got so much going on. But and even people from Sunland, a lot of people live on the edges the outskirts of Sunlond But then and they don't go into the city center where a lot of the developments are happening, but I was I'm saying it firsthand in this today.

Speaker 4: I was. I was at the Justice Office in the city center, which is amazing.

Speaker 1: They're doing like world class innovations a global business, but the like innovation's happening right here in Sunland. You've got the new Culture House opening in Sondon, which is going to be amazing.

Speaker 3: Well, I went recently the Sutherland Bid.

Speaker 2: Lunch at the client of the magazine and I went as their guest to a lunch that had a son in college and the one of the main speakers was the lady behind Culture. I was there.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the curse.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was.

Speaker 2: It was fantastic. And I've probably spent this year. I've got loads clients in the right. There's there's lots going on down there, and I've probably spent more time in the last six months down there that probably did the whole of last year going on. It's fantastic. You know, obviously it's been open a wild house sheep fools. I mean, that's been a great city.

Speaker 4: So yeah, and I think it's it's the think.

Speaker 1: The thing is it's all happening all at once, you know, it's like there's lots going on, Like even just one of these new developments would be exciting, but there's like about twenty of them all happening all at once, you know, and it's all part of a big master plan for the Riverside development. And when you say it all coming together, it's it's really the cancer deserves a lot of credit for Yeah, the Joe Joe, I've.

Speaker 2: Got a lot. I've got a lot of positive news stories like sending me all the time, you know, and as I got a lot of clients down there, it's great. You know, that's what we want for the whole of the region, one positively everywhere.

Speaker 4: You know.

Speaker 3: It's yeah, the more of the better.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you what I also was it last week I was up in Anne because we're looking at doing some platform events up there, and I was at the Anne Playhouse and and then that was to say, I've never been to the house. I've always been a gardens and a castle, the tree house, little Dory, border books.

Speaker 4: But what an amazing venue that is an a playhouse?

Speaker 2: Who are you singing up there?

Speaker 1: It was it was one of the guys who's just showed me around. But we're going to do a platform event there. But then after that I went to the Tempest. Have you heard of the Tempest?

Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah it's by is it? There's a chalten form I think I've forgot there's one of the venues.

Speaker 1: Yeah to Hall and Hall in Oxford Barns but Burns. Yeah what a what a beautiful hotel and in places to stay up there.

Speaker 2: So well it was another I mean, I mean that's that's all of the you know, the the leisure of a hospitality sector has obviously been so a tough period, but there still in it.

Speaker 3: There's some fantastic venues like opening all the time.

Speaker 2: We mentioned in Annik. I did some work last year with the new bailiff Gate Hotel which is next to Anna Gordon. It's it's actually run by like an old parliamente. It's what used to be the.

Speaker 3: School I think was King.

Speaker 2: Edwards School.

Speaker 3: I think it's unbelievable. So next thing, check that one out, you know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, not being but yeah, that's but that's another strand, isn't it. The readion of the the leisure and hospitality is unbelievable.

Speaker 2: I mean this year this year I've been doing quite a piece for the magazine on the new Gotham Hotel in Newcastle. I've started using that if I'm in the city center for meetings. Obviously the old fire station and they're now I think the second half the there that that there opening and what was the old police station not extending there.

Speaker 3: If you haven't been there, anybody listening, but I highly.

Speaker 4: Recommend that I've not been yet. That's the thing.

Speaker 1: I used to be in Newcastle every day, but because I'm living and working, I work from home a lot, but I'm out and about all over the region. But I haven't been to the Gotham Hotel yet.

Speaker 2: I mean, what what we what we need now? And I know it's in the pipeline. We need a world class like concert and conferencing venue. You know, it's obviously been taught about. Yeah, the Glasshouse because that as a music fan, I'm sadden sometimes now the arena is still a very good arena. We all getting bypassed sometimes for some of the you know what people might think with some of the bigger racks to Leeds and I think that would be that would be a huge addition to this, to the.

Speaker 1: You know, definitely, I know, I mean it's I'm not just here to talk about Sundland, but like sounding does get big acts playing at the Stadium of Light, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I saw Bruce Springsteen down there two years ago and it was fantastic, you know.

Speaker 4: But definitely it would be great not just for music but conferences, so that that's a big thing.

Speaker 1: Isn't like the party political political parties conferences.

Speaker 4: They're usually in Brighten or.

Speaker 1: Birmingham have big conferences at the minute. They don't have the capacity in your castle. Yeah, yeah, tell you touched on music, they're going just stay quickly.

Speaker 4: What's what's the music?

Speaker 2: Do you do? You like? Yeah?

Speaker 3: And it's funny because if ever I need to pick up when I'm working, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, music, music's really really, really powerful and totally change your mood in your emotional state. Oh going your back, go and tell and tell us about your music.

Speaker 2: So nothing picks me up but better than music. Mm hmm. So obviously a huge Beatles fan first and foremost Liverpool music lovers would be Queen and I was very fortunate to meet the heroes of mine about ten eleven years ago when they were staying at the hotel Lovan.

Speaker 3: I had an office next door and there are too super guys.

Speaker 2: So yeah, sad. Yeah, I think I picked playing the triangle when I was at school. But my son is a very good guitar player. But but I just I love music. I love the arts generally, you know.

Speaker 4: So uhm.

Speaker 3: And we've got some fantastic you know, new within the regions.

Speaker 2: Uh huh.

Speaker 4: Yeah. My son's.

Speaker 1: Turned seventeen this this Friday, and but he's he's a college near Castle College, but his social life just exploded and he's going to loads of gigs. And like him, and I've always like played lots, like very diverse types of music.

Speaker 4: And got them interested.

Speaker 2: I mean when I want to. When I was in the music as well, when I I used to love the Mayfair and Newcastle used to regularly o there go to gigs imber seeing it. Michael Richards was still alive and years ago that was an excess.

Speaker 4: Did he go and see an excess.

Speaker 3: In excess that the Mayfair? Yeah, saw some great saw some great gigs there, you know. And I love there. The City Hall brilliant. I mean, Southerland's got.

Speaker 2: And they've got a great venue of the fire Station which is next to the Empire fabulous to getting some good good actually so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: The media world, well yeah, it's it's all corrected.

Speaker 1: I think if you into media and the arts and culture, it's you're gonna you're gonna like music and as well and film as well.

Speaker 2: So I really you know, and some of my heroes, you know, a lot many of them all musicians. You see these guys, I mean, you know, McCartney just bringing out the number one album at the age of really really good album. I've had it on wallers every day since it's been released. These guys are just like absolutely unbelievable. You know.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Have you seen the documentary I think it's on Amazon Prime about Paul McCartney after when he left the Beatles? After what sorry, when Paul McCartney left the Beatles. There's a there's a documentary. Have you seen a Man on the Run.

Speaker 2: I've seen it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, Well it's really good.

Speaker 1: Yeah, because he was he was like totally lost, like literally I didn't know what to do, and he was getting panned for people saying, oh, well, we know he was like who he wasn't the he wasn't the main talent because his first album wasn't wasn't considered very good.

Speaker 2: But but then he's it wasn't considered a big commercial, but it's no concerned.

Speaker 4: A classic now, isn't it. Yeah?

Speaker 1: And the Wings obviously, and he and he hit his stride with with wings and yeah, I love that love documentaries about musicians and artists.

Speaker 2: Well, we saw McCartney live in Liverpool. It was it was just before the Northern and Sits back in twenty fifteen. I went with my wife and my son and daughter and we were in the eighth rower at Liverpool Arena and he played for three and a quarter hours, never left the stage at any time. So yeah, so then he he's seventy three, seventy four then and he's still going, you know.

Speaker 4: Amazing, such a such a talent.

Speaker 1: Cool, right, Well, Mike, if anyone wants to enjoy Yeah, no, I love love Ton.

Speaker 4: I always enjoyed torn here.

Speaker 1: So what I'm going to do, I'm gonna put loads of links underneath your top find out about your magazine. But your magazine is usually available all over the region, isn't it like people can pick it up.

Speaker 3: Pick it up, k business, hotel pleasure through the.

Speaker 4: Yeah, hotels, cafes, restaurants sometimes Yeah.

Speaker 2: Shops anybody. Yeah, I any if anybody wants to know any more about the mark, obviously they can all the knife and inside of code at UK. Yeah, and I'll be sending a magazine out of Downing Street on your recommendation.

Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Hea, do your best, send one to kir Starmer and Andy Burnham I think, But but.

Speaker 2: Paul, can I just say well done to you. I know you've got your award the other week of your Platform conference for all your services to the region and well deserved platforms like this where we're able to talk absolutely brilliant, and I think your platform business that you have now your events business brilliant. And you know, I'm sure you're going to go from strict So thank you.

Speaker 4: I really appreciate it, all right, love that, Okay, cheers, Michael leave it there, so.

Speaker 3: Great stuff, Okay, thanks both. Thanks Byte