What is a business coach & when do you need one with Ian Kinnery (aka The Scale-Up Coach)

Speaker 1: Well, hello and welcome to the super Connector Show, where I'm delighted to be joined by Ian Kinnery. Also known as the Scale Up Coach. He is a scale up and business coach for ambitious founders and leaders. He's had over twenty one years of building, coaching and scaling businesses. Hi, Ian, how you doing.

Speaker 2: I'm excellent?

Speaker 1: Thanks. I like that. I like it when you say you're excellent. Yeah something, I'm all right, yeah, not bad, but you're excellent. That's good.

Speaker 2: If somebody says they're all right, I say, is that good? Yes it is. I knew it was. Why didn't you say good?

Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's good. Good? And I like your teacher as well. So is it scaling scaling up coaches?

Speaker 2: I thought, just to remind me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So for anyone that doesn't know what a business coach is and does can you can you start by explaining?

Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. Peter Rucker once said that the bottleneck is always at the top of the bottle, which means that if you're at the top of your business, you're probably the bottleneck. And you know, it's a phrase I use a lot. You'll have heard me, is it a lot? We know what we know, but we don't know what we don't know, and it's what we don't know the costs us. So, as a business coach, I grow the business leader, to grow the business, to stop them being the bottleneck, to help them develop that go some way to explain.

Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I mean it does. I mean, I know, I know what that is. Yeah, And I'm sure yeah, anyone listening to this will what this will will know as well. But I've definitely seen that over the years a lot of times where people have started the business, got those certain points, they're doing well, but that people are still relying on them to make the decisions, and like everyone goes to them for the answers, and it does create a bit of a dependency on that on that senior person.

Speaker 2: And it's definitely a bottleneck.

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely a bottle neck. But also they're not always they often don't have someone that they can talk to either. Maybe if they're the most senior person, everyone's coming to them for help and advice, But who do they go to for help and advice or who can they share the challenges or the problems with. Sometimes they can't talk to their colleagues or they they might not have it. Even if they have a board, they might not be able to share openly with them.

Speaker 2: They probably won't because entrepreneurs are that type where typically they just make stuff happen. They don't consult, They just make stuff happen, which is great until you get to the limit of your experience.

Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And you've got loads Well, you've got loads of good stuff on your website Kinnery dot co dot uk and LinkedIn. You're sharing some great content on them. Really enjoying your videos, and I would encourage anyone to take a look your website as well as You've got this five day productivity challenge where you can sign up. We get free email with videos in there, which which are excellent. I've done that as well. But who do you normally work with? Like who at the moment, who are you working with or who do you think benefits most from working with you?

Speaker 2: As I said on my website, it says I grow the business leader to grow the business. So I don't do anything in corporations. I don't understand them, and I like working with the boss. So I typically work with ambitious business owners, business owners that want to grow the business, and they tend to be in the SMA small and medium sized enterprise sector, so you know, and I've been doing this now for twenty one years, so an awful lot of businesses in the Northeast. My model used to be all face to face before lockdown. Now it's mainly on zoon, so geography is less of a restriction. But any business that wants to grow and needs to grow and being remarkably successful doing that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been doing it over twenty one years, and I've heard a lot of good things about you, and I mean, I've been following what you've been doing, but it's it's really only in the last six six months twelve months that I've got to know you better and senior in action as well, and I'm really really impressed I've seen before went live. I feel like a super fun a bit of a fan boy because I've been there. I've been watching all your content and all your videos and listening to your podcasts, and I'm really benefiting from it because I'm I'm I would say I'm at that point as well where and I am aware that I've been in business for ten years, but the business is basically me like bring people in as and when I need them, but it's pretty much me doing all the day to day. I do have a business partner now, and I did join forces with Neil, my business partner, about a year and a half ago, because I was aware that I wanted someone else to work alongside me. And he's like he's a co founder, but he's kind of like a mentor coach as well, helping me think bigger and definitely have a bit more of a commercial focus in to what I do. But that was me being aware that despite having lots of successful years and loving what I'm doing, if I just keep doing the same thing, then I'm not going to grow the business. And you, yeah, and I want to take it to the next level.

Speaker 2: Now, there's nothing wrong with the business being you. I mean, this business is me. Where it becomes a problem is when that's not what you want. Yeah, but that's the way you're running it. Then it's a problem, and it's how do you break away from that and change it from a if you like, a micro business to a fully fledged business?

Speaker 1: Yeah, Because if it's.

Speaker 2: All about you, you can't easily take holidays. Everything revolves around you, and after a while that becomes untenable for most people.

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely we'll have Then I think what I think what I've done a good job of is like i think I'm quite good at building sort of brands. So I've got like there's what it's me as a brand as most personal brands, right, and what I what I do and what I'm known for, right. But then there's the platform events. So yes I'm the host, but it doesn't actually need me to be the host it like the format works. Other people could potentially do that and we could scale that out if we're bringing other people in to do that. The Startup scale Up Week it used to be in Newcastle's Startup Week but it became UK Startup and Scale Now that's a purely online resource of blogs and videos and podcasts and guides. Again, that doesn't need to be me running that. So I've created these assets and these brands with a view to me taking a step back. But at the minute it's still very relyingt on me powering these things and making things happen. That but that is the loose plan is to is to bring in other people or maybe to you never know, someone else might want to take them on away away from us. But I've I've done a good job of creating certain things. I've got good systems and technology behind it. But yeah, I think I do we need a we need a team, We need a bigger team of people to to grow it.

Speaker 2: Well, it depends what you want. If if I was your coach, I'd be saying, Okay, so when you're going to do that, m what needs to be in place to allow you to do that? And when he committing to having it done by Yeah, because we've all got loose plans, but really you lose vague vague goals lead the vague plans lead the vague actions. Yeah, and you know the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall there. You have the plan to get there and the timeline to get there and the mission to get there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: No, that's good. No, thank you. I wasn't I wasn't expecting to had some free coaching, but I do appreciate it. But now you're right, you're right, because I think definitely in the early days, it was just kind of kind of start my own business, kind of kind of get this thing up and going up and running, and can I keep going? And then as I kind of make it a bit bigger and can we make more successful And then what happened just briefly with me, because it was very much me and bringing people in as and when I needed to. But when lockdown happened, I couldn't run events. Most of the income was coming from events, so the income fell off a cliff. Move things online. That was going okay, but then but then I had to go back into employment for a couple of years just to steady steady things and get a bit of regular income and sort of take a bit of pressure off, which I didn't want to do, but it was exactly what I needed to do, and actually I learned a lot from that. But I've come back. I picked up exactly what I left off, but with a much more of a commercial focus, and I don't want to be in that situation again. So that's one of the reasons why I joined forces with Neil, because it was out look again, if I just keep doing what I was doing before, I'm vulnerable and there's a risk that that might happen again. So yeah, to talk about that was a trigger for me to So do you tend to find there's there's triggers, negative triggers, positive, triggers for people wanting to coach.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think people either take on a coach because they're not getting there fast enough or what they're doing at the minute then know isn't working, and that usually shows up in terms of stress. I used to use when I was doing a lot of seminars. I used to use two photographs, and one was of a yacht, and if you imagine the yacht, the sails were full of wind, the crew were all lined up along the railing of the yacht. It was making clear and steady progress to its destination which could be seen, and the sun was on the back and it was a nice picture. And I think that picture typifies the image that we have when we go into business, but the reality often turns out to be something different. And I have a photograph of a guy in a loincloth dragging an anchor, and of course every step the anchor digs deeper and deeper and is becoming more and more tired and more and more frustrated. So we get the image of what we think we're going into and then a totally different image of what reality too often turns out to be like. And if we're dragging the anchor. That's a sure sign that something isn't working mhm. And if something isn't working, then we've got to change, and change is hard mhm. And that's what the coach is all about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're right. So people maybe they'll know that something's not working or then maybe you need to make a change, but they just don't know how to do that, and then that's.

Speaker 2: It's not working. But they'll be feeling the stress, feeling the lack of enjoyment.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and it's I bet you get people come to you where it's already the burnout or close to burnout, or maybe after burnout, but the idea that you want to speak to them before that only, Oh.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, because if you're dragging the anchor, you are going to collapse sooner or later.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's a a friend of mine who talks about how you're it's very difficult to make good decisions when you when you're stressed out and overwhelmed.

Speaker 2: And I don't think we realize that, you know, And typically entrepreneurs will work, we'll spend every hour because we kind of enjoy it, but we don't realize that. That's why I use the spiral. You know, we don't realize that we're spiraling down all the time. I know at the minute, I'm going on holiday for the weekend on Thursday, because I know I'm tired. I know I'm not as decisive as I am when I'm less tired. You know, you wouldn't race a race horse every weekend. You know, a prime athlete, well, they stopped competing six months before the Olympics. And yet as entrepreneurs, it's head down, backside up and plow on and on and on, And particularly for blocks, there's something distinctly and wise about that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm I know. There's there's times when you just have to work. You have to know nose to the grindstone. You just have to work long hours and really really hard. But it's but you've got to take some time out after that busy period, or you've got to you've got to carve out some rest time in between. And even even made at a small level, there'll be some days where I'm just or even particularly in the build up to a big event, well I'm just working crazy hours, but I just know it needs to be done. But I also know that as soon as it's over, I'm going to probably take the next week off, maybe longer.

Speaker 2: Well, as long as you do. We we don't rely lies how we start to lose cognitive power, we start to lose energy, and that can be if we're not careful the beginning of the end.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but even even just there's some days I'll work later than the next day. I will take it easy, or I'll clean me diary because because I don't and no, I think it's good. I'm a bit jealous that you're going on holdly this this this weekend, but I think it's well. I know you do, I know you do. I think there's one thing I would recommend anyone running the businesses to take your holidays, Like definitely book your holidays and take your time out and force yourself if you have to, to switch.

Speaker 2: Off and get some hobbies. Yeah, get some more peace. Well yeah, that's you know. When I take on a new client, of the things that I tell them is to get some new hobbits. Because as entrepreneurs, what we tend to do is we stretch the day out. You know, it was five o'clock, everybody else is going home, but I haven't finished. I'll do an extra hour and that perpetuates. Whereas if you had a new puppy or a new motorbike or something that you have to be home for, you would do it. And of course if we contain the day, we're actually more productive. You're never as productive as you are the day before you go on holiday. You know, on Thursday, I'll be ruthless with my time because if I missed the plane, I don't get a second chance. So on the day before we go on holiday, we are ruthless. But most of the time we're not. Oh I just do a bit more. I'll just work an of the hour and we're started.

Speaker 1: Slowly, especially if a lot of people work from home as well doing this, so it's it's it's not such a clear mark between the the job or the day daily work in the in the home life if they're working from them. One of one of the best things I've done recently we got a dog. We got a puppy. Oh yeah, Katie, my partner, But I think she told you about so I didn't think I was a dog person, so I've never had a dog. I've always grone up with cats. And she is a dog person and really wanted a dog, but she's not had one for a long time, and I really really didn't want a dog. And then we were on holiday last summer and her and the youngest daughter were like pitching to me basically the benefits of having a dog and showed me photos and like narrowing it down. But and then it's the best thing ever. I absolutely love dore this dog. And I'm I Meansha loves Katie as well, but I'm her person. She just wants to be with me all the time, right, and that does. I love taking her for a walk, like I like walking anyway, but I love it that I that I have to take that for at least two usually three walks a day, breaks up the day, gives me space to think, and it's yeah, it's it's one of the best things ever, as well as the emotional you know, you you feel good when.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't be without my dog.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, definitely. Well I heard yet, what kind of dog have you got?

Speaker 2: It's a bordered Terrier. It's called Edwin. It's just brilliant.

Speaker 1: I've seen a photo of Edwin. I haven't got, Like, don't you put them in funny hats and.

Speaker 2: Uh yeah, well probably his birthday photograph, but.

Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. So when I saw something you posted something about how this is one of your recent videos, which I thought was excellent. You do post some really good videos on LinkedIn about how you're sure you can work. You can work with every business, like every business can be helped, but not every business or our leader can be helped because people don't. Some people just don't take advice and they're closed minded. So do you want to say a bit about that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know. Carol Dweck, I think Stafford professor came up with the concept of a fixed mindset or a learning mindset, growth mindset, she called it, and to me, that's one of particularly in the twenty first century, that's one of the most most important things. If we haven't got a growth mindset, we're never going to learn what we need to learn. If we have got a growth mindset, we will learn, and we'll be prepared to face the discomfort of doing something new and with a world that's changing as quickly as ours is. You know, if you only if you only ever do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. I think it was Peter Drucker again that said, and I can't remember the dates, but he said his family were printers from fifteen seventy till sixteen fifty and they didn't need to learn anything new. In twenty twenty six, you can't get through a day without learning something new. So but if somebody's got a fixed mindset, fundamentally, what they're saying is I know what I know and it's never going to change. Well, actually, if it's never going to change, you might as well give up now because the world after this podcast, the world outside will be different in some way big or small, and if I can't adapt to that, I'll be redundant.

Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I love that. I mean I like to think of got it when I have got a growth mindset. I know I have and one of my I've got like a person might always like stay curious, because I just love learning and I'm always open to new ideas and new ways of thinking. And I put myself in situations where that are uncomfortable and stretch me and try things out for the first time. At the same time, I know there are certain areas where I am resistant to try because I'm I've not done them before. And I'm a that I can't do it, but but I've got a track record of doing making things happen just by putting myself in those situations. So I think once, yeah, once you've got that experience in that track record behind you, you you're more willing to do it.

Speaker 2: I agree. But I think curiosity is a superpower. You know that the more curious we are, the less we assume, the more we need to learn and ask and listen rather than tell mm hmmm. And again, listening is a superpower.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe. No, I agree, Well, I think there's so much and then you can never you can never know it all? Can you like this? And but also well now when you you already had, I mean, everything's on YouTube, isn't it. Everything's on Google? And now even with a I. I know you're not a massive fan of a I, and I'm a bit like in the middle about AI, but like, it's all there isn't it. But it's you've got to know what questions to ask to get the right.

Speaker 2: You've got to have some some way of assessing whether it's as or the truth. And that's the problem with anything on social media. There's no it's one of its attractions. There's there's no policing of it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's which is why I tend to stick to books, because books have typically the particularly older ones, has been more more scrutiny. Yeah, you know, And it's interesting. I've got over two thousand books in my library now, and still in my reading room there's a stack of books on the table next to me, and I ended up having to select two or three to take away this weekend. Yeah, constantly learning, constantly read it.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, it never stopped learning. And I love books as well. I mean, I've got a bunch of books on my desk here. I've read most of them, but like there's there's a couple I've still got on the goal or just about to start. But you say, there's there's a lot that have stood the test of time. Others maybe the world has moved on and they're not as relevant anymore. But there's but there's a reason why. Some of these are classics and people regularly refer to them and talk about them. So what is there. I know you mentioned a couple of people earlier. Is there any in particular that you regularly recommend to clients to read books.

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, always, but it really it depends on the client. It depends what where their focus of attention is. But yeah, I encourage all clients to read because if they read, they're getting the base level of knowledge. I mean, I've got no problem helping people with that. But it's far more productive if you understand something and then we can talk about the application of it, rather than going from from a base of zero knowledge. So, and what I find is that, in fact, the client that I saw this morning has never read as many books as he has in the last few months he's been working. And generally people really enjoy it and it becomes a habit for life after that. So continuous learning, I would suggest.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so what's go and give us a put me on the spot. Here is a one book in particular that you that you think they think I should read, or that, or that you regularly recommend to people.

Speaker 2: What's well? Funnily enough, as I said, I've got two thousand books. I've got about probably thirty or forty in the bookshelf here in the office, and I've got someone with desk here which I'm constantly referring to the one that I'm particularly entransferring and it is designed loving by Marcus Buckingham and what he's talking about and I absolutely get this is how transactional the world has become. And of course AI makes it even more transactional. But fundamentally, people need to love what they're doing, and we keep building places of work that just not fulfilling they do, they don't lift the spirit, and it should, you know, because if we're just going into work as a transactional arrangement, that's an awful way to spend your time. So it's really about how do we make the workplace more human because the workplace isn't working for so many people at the minute, and I think that's really important. One of the reasons that I do what I do is that And every Christmas I'll just take a mental note of how many lives have impacted because I'm working with their business. And this started a few years ago, you know, when we were in yet another recession, and one Christmas I was thinking, well, all of these people are going home for Christmas way more confident about next year because of the work that I'm doing with their business. I fundamentally believe that a business that's well run benefits everybody. It benefits the team, it benefits the owners, it benefits the stakeholders, it benefits the customers. But a business has badly run hardly benefits anybody.

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 2: So you know, regularly, as I say, every year around I take stock and try and estimate the impact that I've had. Yeah, and just this morning that the person I was coaching at nine o'clock has been running this business of his for which is quite a big business for I think seven years now, and he said, I've never been as happy and contented doing what I'm doing that I have this last few weeks. Now. I'm not saying that was down to me, but that's not the first time I've heard that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I think it is well. I've no doubt you do have a positive impact on the clients in their and their businesses and the colleagues. And I think your business will probably bound to see this because we're business orders. But I think business is a force for good, Like you know, it's good for society and it's good for community to have strong, successful, well run businesses of happy, fulfilled people.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And there's a whole school of I suppose we would call it philosophy about business being a force for good conscious capitalism. It's often called and you know, I think a well run business is exactly that, And why would you not want a well run business when, of course, of well run business by definition means that it looks after it it's people.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I always think I always think it's odd when I can't get the words, I can't remember the correct terminology. But like the the legal definition or responsibility of a director of businesses, it's just to make money, like the legal definition or a director is to But business isn't just that.

Speaker 2: It's much more now, and that came from and I forget the guy's name, but there's an American who about twenty thirty years ago argued that the main function of the business was to maximize shareholder value.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it, And.

Speaker 2: That's that's saying held sway for a long long time. It tends not to now people are a bit more worldly wise, but still that's the impression that a lot of people have. But it can't be about that, you know, I talk about the triple bottom line. You know, we need to be the supplier of choice. Everybody gets that we want to be as busy and so owners the place that people come to first. But we also need to be the investment of choice. You know, if our investment in our business isn't providing a better yield, then will do somewhere else? Then why are we doing it? But the third of the triple bottom line is the employer of choice, because if you think about it, if I'm not the employer of choice at very best, I'm the employer of second choice, but I'm probably the employer of last choice, which means that instead of getting the cream of the jobs market, I'm getting the dregs. So being the employer of choice, it's a really important concept and that will only happen if we're providing value to the team. M hm. However, we described that and it's it's about way more than what we pay people.

Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Totally. Yeah, people are wise to that on them and definitely it's it's not just young people, but young people in particular or the research ors like that, that's what they're looking for.

Speaker 2: In a different world, you know, not the age of I mean, my parents grew up in the warriors, you know, so so there their needs were more about survival than the choice. We're in a different era now, but yeah, if we you know, if we if we aren't looking after the people that work for us, well we'll probably deserve everything we've got coming.

Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, totally. We're talking about before went live. And I'm not going to go political as in like, yeah, but Keir Starmer has resigned today about an hour ago, an hour and a bit ago us the world change, Yeah, exactly. And so you see this a lot in politics and in sport right where if things aren't going well, everyone calls for the head to go, like, oh, they should resign and get rid of them. And maybe it makes people feel better in the short term to just get rid of someone, but that doesn't seem to be much thought about what next or even how do we make the current head perform better? So I don't know, that's just come to be head. It's spun to be mind now about like he probably was a good prime minister, but for whatever reason he lost the support of the people around him. People turned again public sentiment. Was apparently the least popular prime minister since Poland began in nineteen seventy seven, but they won with a lionslide victory two years ago. So like he was obviously the right man to wait to get labor back into power. But something once he's in power, it sounds like he's not had the right people around him advising him or coaching him.

Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, you know, politics is as a peculiar environment, sports funnily enough, but you know that my I mean, I've got to say, I think he's been a dreadful prime minister or this last two years have been awful. But what what surprised me is that I'm not sure that there's been anybody in his camp that has been trading in the truth with him. When Tiger Woods was asked why have so many coaches, his answer was, well, I can't see my own swing, and we all need people around us that are going to trade in the truth with us. And of course, the more powerful we are, or the more powerful the position, the less likely people are to trade in the truth. Very often, that's why somebody does employ a coach, because that's my job. My job isn't the flat of the client. It's not to tickle him or her with a feather, it's to trade in the truth. Often say, you know, if your child's ugly. It's my job to tell you, and that's the understanding that we have. So I've paid the trade in the truth. I don't know if anybody had they the courage or the wherewithal to do that, or whether Stelma didn't think he needed it, But we all need somebody in our corner that's gonna tell us when we've been an idiot.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we.

Speaker 2: Can't say our own sway.

Speaker 1: No politics in particular, it must be really difficult because you just it's who do you trust? Right, You probably felt like you didn't have anyone maybe adgent of congression, maybe maybe didn't feel like you had anyone around him you.

Speaker 2: Could trust it. It's going to be a Ford model, really, hasn't it, Because for me, a good leader is somebody that that deals in the truth, that confronts the brutal realities of the situation. But of course, in politics, they need to be re elected. And it's a really difficult line to tread being honest and open and facing the brutal realities and still doing it in such a way that we remain popular enough to be re elected. Yeah, I mean, I think I think it. I think it can be done, but I'm not sure that it has been done in this country for quite a number of years.

Speaker 1: And everything, so everything is still public now as well, isn't it.

Speaker 2: You've got social media, you've got everybody's got a voice now, so it's very easy to for that to get out of hand and over well. You know, we've seen football managers that have lost the dressing room. This is very much the same, you know, has lost the confidence of his of his people. Yeah, it's a it's a difficult situation, but of course the downstream consequence of it is that the country's going to be in turmoil again. And you'll know as a businessman that what businesses need is some degree of stability because it's you know, running a business is difficult enough. When you're trying to do it on shifting sound, it's nigh on impossible.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, definitely I saw that, but I spent a bit of time working recruitment when we was that. That was in twenty two to twenty twenty two and twenty three, so I totally I had my own business for ten years, but I went back into employment for a couple of years, kept my business going in the background, but went back into employment, and then picked up where I left off in January twenty twenty four. But the reason I mentioned recruitment, it was fascinating to me how political events, global events would collectively affect people's decision making. So like in the lockdown, companies were hiring loads of people, like particularly tech developers, you know, techies, and then they got to the point where they basically overhired. There was spending too much money on these people, so it slowed right down. But then whenever there was some major political event or some war or waring Ukraine, whatever oil crisis, people just stop making a decision. And it was it wasn't just one or two, it was like everybody. And then the media, whatever the media was talking about, they had a role to play there. They were making things worse by still steering things up. So you've got all this going on, and when your business owner business, you know, it's so hard to know what to do for them, what's the right thing to do to get that clarity of thought. So that's why you do need external expertise.

Speaker 2: I think that without a doubt, and I think you know that type of thing. I believe bigger companies, international companies and more are often more reactive, and unnecessarily so, because it's a so big and be so distant, you know. And if the Edict comes down. I've worked for big companies as well. And if the Egypt comes down from America, let's say that you need to reduce your head by fifteen. No amount of arguing it's going to change that. You're just got to get on and do it or increase your headcamp. Smaller businesses don't have such a problem. But you're right what you say. They are influenced by all the stuff that's on social media, all the stuff that's on YouTube, and not necessarily in a good way. You know. Lockdown was quite typical all of my clients, and I said to all of them at the beginning, I'm going to carry on coaching it, but we're going online. I'm going to carry on invoicing you. If you can pay, please pay. If you can't, just let me know. But every one of them came out of COVID stronger than they went in, probably because they weren't doing what everybody else was doing, which was just battening down the hatchets and hoping that life would get better. So it's it's quite interesting, But I think I think smaller businesses should be more agile, should be able to weather the storm better than a big business oftentimes. But the real important thing is the clarity of thought, the thought process that's supplied to making these decisions. M You know, very often when they zig, we should zag because if we just follow the crowd would be no better than average. Yeah, average isn't very good.

Speaker 1: No, well, I'm sure your clients that's not what they want. They don't want to average. They want to be above average. They want to be high performers. They want to be.

Speaker 2: Well, they're ambitious and as I said that the mountain, top of the mountain didn't fall there, wanted to get there.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think what you said there as well. I love that about clarity of thought as well, and focus as well, staying focused and getting really clear on what you want. And so that's what you can definitely help with through your coaching sessions. And sometimes it is you just need someone to talk to you already. Often people already know the answers, they just need someone to keep them on track and stop getting distracted by other things and fill around the fill around the noise. Do you I know you do talk a bit about journaling and diaries, and is that something that you encourage your clients to do or many of you.

Speaker 2: Can, depending on the client. I mean, one of the reasons I do a blog every week is that's my version of journaling. Yeah, you know, because an idea it's really difficult to pressure test it and sense check it. But the minute you write it out, you can stot see the flaws in the argument. So that's what I do. I encourage do our journal Yes I do, but not as consistently as I should or as I could do. I encourage clients to do it absolutely. The one thing that I am a big fan of Paul is and I call it the Wind's Diary. And that's, like so many other things, it's a ritual. I'm just looking to see if minds around here, and it simply involves taking a notebook electronic or paper and setting up a ritual every day or twice a day. I mean, I know that you read the same stuff every morning. That's a ritual, and rituals work. But this ritual is, let's say, once a day, at the end of the day, jotting down five wins. It might be three wins. It might be seven wins, but five wins, Now, what's a win? A win is anything you wanted to be. So I'm a diabetic, the fact that I've been in for a couple of hours and I've only eaten two biscuits could be a win. So I'll write it down. And what the benefit of doing that? And it's particularly good for somebody that lacks confidence? Is that? And the human brain is hardwired. Most of our emotions are about negative thing. We're hard wired to notice the bad stuff rather than the good stuff. So you know, if if you've got children, if one of the children came home with the scorecard from school and they had seven a's and one F, it would be the F that attracts all the attention and negativity biased. That's hardwired within human beings. Most of our emotions, it's argue, they're about spotting the bad stuff. So we don't eat rotten meat, we don't drink stale, stagnant water, so they're all the majority of them are negative biased. That keeps us safe. That's how we've evolved. But the danger is that sometimes all we can see is the negative stuff. So that Wind's diary is a way of training the brain to notice all the things that we've done well that day, and over time it changes the way our brain's wired, so and it builds up our confidence. Because the other thing is when we're filing a bit down, We've now got a notebook full of five winds for every day for the last year and a half. And that's incredibly powerful because it's when it's when you're being knocked off balance that you need to be able to grasp something like that. Yeah, and because of the way the brain works, it's very difficult to see the winds when we've just been knocked flattened our back. So you know that Wind's diary is a very very simple mechanism that anybody can use, and I recommend everybody does use.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing that because Yeah, I love going from survive to thrive because you say, like, you're avoiding the negative to stay alive and keep going. But then if you focus on the positives, it can push you on to be more successful and more positive with your with your approach.

Speaker 2: And that's that's why when you asked me how I was, that said excellent. Yeah, I love that yeah, why would I say, all right, I know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, but a lot of people do like, oh yeah, I'm surviving. I'm ga. But on the just quickly on on journal like because in the past, I've tried journaling and I've not really known what to do, whether I do it in the morning, in the afternoon, evening, whatever. And I tried it a while ago, a few years ago, and I found I was just having a bit of a moon. I was being I was dwelling on things that weren't going right or that I was frustrated with. So I stopped doing it right because I found out when it was just blank pages, that's what I was doing. But there's a couple that I got one given one as a Christmas present and another one recently. This I'll just quickly show you this one, The Reset. It's a guy called Mike Bell who's based in Stockton, so he's a He created this. But what I really like about is it's really simple, but it's structured and it's all about positivity and focused on forward momentum. It guides you to only talk about what you're going to do to get you closer to where you want to be.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so.

Speaker 1: I was. It's a ninety day things. I've just literally just finished that actually.

Speaker 2: But so we've got another one.

Speaker 1: I've got another one waiting, yeah, have you so. But the practice of doing that on a morning, sitting with a cup of coffee before everyone else wakes up, I've got I've usually got about half an hour all of myself before the before the house wakes up, and having that quiet time to just sit and think and get clear on what I'm going to do that day. And then also, you know a lot of people have to do lists, but that's really been beneficial to me to to really plan what I'm going to do that day and get really clear that day. That gets me closer to where I want to be. And I didn't do that in the past.

Speaker 2: And there's there's a lot of people that Brian Tracey's Brian Tracy calls at the Golden Hour that the first hour or so of waking up and having a ritual. Robin Sharma talks about that. I think he calls it the form club, but it's a similar thing. It's having that ritual first thing in the morning. For me, for a long time, I would get up early, go downstairs, get a cup of tea, get the dog, sit and read for thirty minutes, then go for a walk. That was a very very effective ritual. Funnily enough, I did exactly the same thing this morning. I'm not doing it as frequently now as I used to do it. But how we start the day is critical to how the day is going to go. You know, if we start the day doom and gloom, well it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, toy, I totally believe that about protecting protecting your time, and particularly in the morning. Yeah, So I usually don't look at my phone for the first hour when I'm awake, and on an evening, I don't have my phone next to my bed. I just have like a little it's like at all it's just a little travel alarm clock, but that's my alarm for waking up, and I don't look when I go to bed, and that really helps stay because otherwise, if you're looking at if you're going on the news or you're going on the social media, and it's other people's thoughts and other ideas, put it in your brain. And yeah, I think that's really important to protect your time and get that cloudy your thought and focus on on what you want to do first thing in the morning.

Speaker 2: And I think it was Gandhi that said I won't let people walk through my mind with their dirty boots. Yeah, you know, that's why I do very little TV, do very little news because there's very little of it that's either inspiring or good news.

Speaker 1: No, definitely, the news, a lot of it. It's usually quite negative.

Speaker 2: It's usually always yeah, always, So why would I let that into my mind if I don't have to?

Speaker 1: M hm m hm. So if people want to find out more, they want to work with you, is the best place to go, obviously, it's kinnery dot your website.

Speaker 2: Yeah, just google me. There's only that's the song goes, there's only one. I'm sort of fortunate in having a very unique surname. But yeah, website LinkedIn, but there's only one to make and then contact me either email me or phone me. The phone numbers on the website, it's also on LinkedIn. Chances are I won't pick up the phone because more often than not coaching and they can't be disturbed. But I'll always get back mm hmmm hmm.

Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would encourage people to go on your website because you have got some very good resources on their good, good advice, good things to read. Definitely the email the five day productivity challenge. I think that's on every page on your website, either halfway down or at the bottom of the page. And yeah, you get an email every day for five days with some insights on there. But there's also usually a little fact sheet or something to download in a video as well, which I think is very good.

Speaker 2: And I've been blogging for probably ten years now, so the best majority of those are on the website as well. Yeah, and I do that because it gets my mind clear and people value them.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Great, And have you got are you looking for any more clients? Have you got room for any more at the moment?

Speaker 2: Well, I would say always, to be honest, i'd be right now, I'd be struggling. One of the things that I think makes me different from other coaches is that there's never a contract when I work with somebody hasn't been for twenty one years. I promised to give the client more value than the paying for. If they don't think that I am, they can sack me at any time. They don't need to give me notice they don't need to give me an explanation. Even they can sack me at any time, which means that, you know, we're halfway through two firsts of the way through the month, so in ten days, all my clients get to decide whether the rejoining or the walking away. And you know, my average retention the last time I worked it out is something like four years, and I believe in this industry it's more like three months. So I don't tend to lose clients very frequently. But yeah, there's always room for for ambitious business owners to develop.

Speaker 1: Right Yeah. Well, well I'm sure there'll be some people watching this or listening to this who you will get in touch or if they don't, they should get in touch with and I'll be encouraged. Well, if they've got to the end, they've definitely been into what you've been saying and what we've been talking about. So and there's a few people I've got in mind now I'm encouraging them to to get in touch and work with you as well.

Speaker 2: Thank you. And you know it doesn't cost anything to have a chat.

Speaker 1: Amazing, right, Ian, I somebody enjoyed that always like talking and always listening. To keep doing what you're doing. And if I don't see your speaking beforehand, have it. Have a lovely holiday in Spain.

Speaker 2: Speak very much. I'll try my best.

Speaker 1: I'm sure you will, all right, Okay, thank you Jesus.

Speaker 2: Bye bye,