Stuff They Don't Say: The Business Owner Roller Coaster w/Kristy Ouellette

Speaker A: Welcome to Small Business Casual. I'm Emily Aborn, your podcast host and a small business copywriter. If you're here, it's probably because you're tired of business advice that sounds like it was written by robots. In a conference room today, I'm joined by a real business owner, Christy Willett, who's building a business that actually fits real life, not a fake version of life. The actual one with the, uh, messy parts and slippers. All of it. For those of you who don't know Christie yet, Christy is the owner of Mickey Guru Travel Co. Where she and her team of travel obsessed agents help family and friend groups book Disney cruise and all inclusive vacation your family will be talking about for years. In an industry where everyone is selling the same destinations, Christie has built her brand by zigging when everyone else zags. And including launching Talk Travel to Me, her podcast where no travel question is too basic, too bold, or too weight. Am I allowed to ask that? And fair warning, listening may cause an immediate urge to book something. All right, I can't wait for you to meet Christie. Here we go. Hi, Christy. Welcome to Small Business Casual. I can honestly say I, um, am. It's hard for me to be sitting right now because I'm so excited.

Speaker B: I know. I'm really excited. This is one of those things where we're going to be talking like we've known each other for years because we have.

Speaker A: So I, uh. Yeah, like, I want to take people back to the moment, actually. Not just when we first met, but I do think that story is important because part of the theme this month is like, you never know who you're going to meet. And I think that you only can meet those people that you never know who you're going to meet and how they're going to change your life if you put yourself in the right spaces. So the way Christy and I met, and I'm going to. I want you to tell it from your perspective too. But the way Christy and I met is I don't even remember really how I learned about this event. Maybe on Eventbrite, I don't know. But we went to this thing called a net lunch, and it was at this Cafe in Amherst, New Hampshire, back in 2014. Um, I had just started my organic mattress business, which was in Amherst, and Christy was starting her travel company. And I remember you very well. You're the only one, apart from the organizer I remember from that day whatsoever. And I think it was the Mickey. Like, you know, I was like, oh, Disney, like travel, right? So you're the only one I remember from that day. And I never would have said, oh, that person and I, we're going to stay connected for, you know, 12. What are we going on 12 years now? Yeah. So I wouldn't just. You just never know. And what I love is we've danced in and out of each other's lives in so many different ways. Like, we've been part of groups together. We've, you know, you've been by my side through the thicket. Like, literally the thick and the thin. Um, we've been podcast supporters of one another, so I just think that there's been so many different facets of our journey that have overlapped, but we have, like, totally. And we always have had totally different, like, industries and businesses, and we've tried a lot of the same things, and it's been. Yeah, it's been so great. So now I want you to tell it kind of from your story, but, uh, because I'm really interested in your business startup story, too. I want you to share how you got started, like, what you were doing before, what the. What the kind of, like, Tipping Point was, and then kind of lead us down that little adventure.

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So it's a funny story how we started, and it's probably relatable to a lot of people. Um, I became obsessed with going to Disney on vacation. Um, when I first started that, my daughter was really young, and I was the director of a child care center. Had, um, very limited time off and limited funds. And then I kind of graduated into working for the state of New Hampshire and had more time off, not necessarily a lot more funds. And one night, my husband said to me, he was looking at the credit card bill, and he said, we have got to stop going on vacation so much unless you can figure out a way to get Mickey to pay you. And I laughed. And, um, I know you know this about me. I'm a master problem solver. So he literally dropped this gigantic boulder in front of me and. And said, we can't go on vacation as m. We can't go on vacation ever again is what I heard. And what he meant was, we can't go three times a year. Right. It was like. So I started to figure out. I started, like, doing some searches, and I ended up, uh, linking up with a travel agency out of Indiana. I worked for them for about a year, but they were unfortunately a scammer. So I got scammed hard. Um, lost a lot of money out of that scenario because that person was doing kind of like the hiding the money shuffle kind of thing. It was a big mess. Um, and as that was coming to light, I was like, wait a minute. I've had a business before. I could do this. And there. Mickey Guru Travel Company was born. Um, I never really had a sense that I would do it full time. I thought, who leaves a state job, right? Great benefits, solid. I'd been there six or seven years already, and I thought, I'm not gonna, um, leave. I'm just going to do this on the side. But within a year, the business exploded. And I ended up by the end of that first year with, uh, 15 travel agents working underneath me. And I couldn't keep up. And so I leaped and just said, I'm gonna go do this.

Speaker A: Awesome. Uh, what do you attribute the business, uh, exploding to?

Speaker B: I think it was effort on my part, to be honest. I was like a dog with a bone. My first thing was like, I want to go on a cruise. And we don't have the money for a cruise, so I'm gonna do that. And I. And then I just started. Um, and because that first agency ended up going under, um, I took on a few of the agents that I had worked with there, and then they started telling their people and all of that. So it just grew. I was a little naive, I think, at first. I was like, oh, I'll have this little side thing. And then realized how much I loved it and, um, how much I felt held back in my job at the state because of just bureaucracy and all of that. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go do this and see how it goes. Um, and it. We're now, uh, 12 and a half years later, but the net lunch thing, Emily. I was still working for the state when I went to that. I feel like the biggest imposter you could ever imagine. Like, I was like, I'm going to this networking lunch, which in my field before that was not a thing we did. And I'm like, I'm going to go to the cafe in Amherst. What? Like, I had this thing, and I remember sitting down. I also don't remember anybody in the room. I don't even remember the organizer, which just makes me feel horrible. But I, um, remember I had a notebook, because I write everything down. I have raging adhd, so the way I process information is to write down things. And I remember when you gave your little spiel and you said, organic mattress store, I thought to myself, what in the world is that? Because in my world, at that point, you only Ate organic food. There was no organic clothing or shoes or mattresses. And I remember writing it down with a question mark and underlining a few times, because I felt your energy, and I was like, there's something about your energy that I really connected to. But that was like, the end of that. I was like. And. And, uh, truly to your point, like, how we. Obviously, you don't do organic mattresses anymore, but our businesses couldn't be any more different.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: You're certainly not a Disney adult. You're not somebody that was going to be like, oh, my God, here's another Disney adult to bond with. But, like, there's so many other really cool connections there that, yeah, it's been great.

Speaker A: Oh, so, like, uh. So like, business story to business story. I love that you just kind of. You are doing something it. For me, when I was doing the mattress store, which, by the way, you're not alone in looking at me like I had about 10 heads when I would say that. And that was part of the problem was, like, I was always just having to explain what it was and what it meant. And that was a lot. It was. It was actually like, quite a heavy lift. Um, and I felt the momentum in that store was extremely slow. And then it kind of like ramped up to its peak, and then it kind of like started fizzling out, you know, so it was like a very, like, it was like a roller coaster, and then it was just over. The ride was over. But when I was starting my this business, um, I initially just started it kind of just like, well, you know, a couple people, a couple of my business friends need help with various tasks and various, like, content creation and writing tasks. So, sure, I'll just help them. We were closing the store, so I had like, one foot there and one foot there, and Jason planted it on me, like a problem to solve, essentially saying, you know, you probably should go and get, like, a real job now. You know, like, it probably like, no more business right now just because we got to get resettled and sturdy. And I was like, yeah, good idea, good idea. And I'm like, in that store, like, building this clientele of people that now I've become indispensable to before we even close the shop. So kind of like you. Once I got done with that venture, I was just like, wow. Well, I guess I have to start this business because I've already got the clients. Yeah, I just love that because it's kind of like the time where we stopped, like, overthinking the quote unquote right decision or the smart decision. And you just sort of go with, like, what people are asking you for, what you're really good at and what lights you up. And that is so often the path ahead that is the successful one. So it really isn't. It just was, like, right away. Yeah.

Speaker B: And people thought, I don't know if they did this to you, but people thought I was crazy. Like, I. As I was working for the state, everybody thought that was, like, the dream job. And for me, it was, uh, at one point, absolutely. But I remember one of my closest friends for years started introducing me to people as her unemployed friend. And I was like, hold up.

Speaker A: Granted, we're not friends. Unemployed, over employed, like, exactly. Person works more exactly.

Speaker B: And we are no longer friends anymore because she kept doing that even after I pointed that out. But I feel like people thought it was crazy. And I kept saying, I know. And I had the security, thank goodness, because my husband had the health insurance. So I. I didn't have to worry about that aspect of it. So I was able to. I built up my clientele for sure while I was doing both things. And then when I looked at it and went, I'm almost replacing my income. I can jump now. Um, and now I'm not afraid to say that I make more money now than I ever did in my career. That was my initial, my original career, where I had my college degree from. Like this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I joke about the fact that the college of Disney knowledge has earned me more income than my bachelor's of education. So.

Speaker A: And you've gotten to have, like, fun and go on trips while doing it. So. Okay, this, this I would love to highlight what are some. Because you're really good at busting myths, like, especially on your podcast. Um, uh, Christie's podcast will be in the show notes, and you have to check it out. She answers, like, really fun, uh, questions about travel. No, no question too bold. No question too basic. You can ask anything you want. Um, but what are some of the misconceptions that people have around travel agents? And also, can they do it themselves? Like, what are the benefits? Those kind of things? Because you face those a lot. And I know as the world changes and AI gets involved, like, there's just probably more of those coming out your way.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And there is. There's. There's so many different ones. We could do a whole thing about just the myths. Um, and, you know, that is coming on my podcast. We're going to talk about a lot of that, but one of the biggest Ones when I first started was travel agents are still a thing. Like, people assume because you have Google and you have Expedia or whatever, that, like, travel agents don't exist. We absolutely still exist. Now we're dealing with, uh, an opposite problem where the mlm, the Pyramid networking thing, has tried to take over travel agents. So I'll be in a room and say, I'm a travel agent, and, you know, this is my business model. And there'll be, like, six other people in the same networking room claiming that they own their own travel business. And really what they've done is they pay a monthly fee to call themselves a travel agent. And they have no professional training. So, like, that's become a thing where people are like, oh, yeah, you guys are all the same. So a lot of my visibility content right now is how I'm different than that professional training. Someone actually said to me, once I introduced myself, said, I own Nikki Guru Travel Company. And she said, no, you don't. That's an mlm. And I was like, what? And in front of a whole room of people, and I kind of, like, stopped. I was like, wait, you're gonna have to keep going on this because we need to figure out why you think that. Because my husband and I started this business literally in our basement. Like, uh, what do you. And I realized that she knew one of the agents that worked for me, so she assumed it was a big conglomerate. And I was like, oh, no, no. Sue works for me. She's an independent contractor. So there's like, that myth that there's just, um. I guess I probably would say one way to do it, and we get bulked in with people that are kind of playing with it. And I will say I don't have any problem with people that choose to do a business like that. Like, tastefully simple. Works great for something like that. Travel doesn't, though, because travel is not something you can pick up and drop off. And people need to know that you're going to be there when things hit the fan. And if you're just kind of dabbling in something that doesn't work out, um, I do think that one of the other big ones for us is that do it yourself mentality. And the reality is most adults could plan their vacation on their own. Absolutely. It's not rocket science. But the problem being you only know what you know, so. And Google will only tell you what you ask it. Um, and AI is causing a wrinkle in that because people. I just last week had a client sent me Something that said, this is the trip I want. I got it off of AI and I looked at it and I was like, horrified. I was like, okay, well, half of this information is from pre 2000, like 2000, Emily. Like, not 20, 20, 2000. And I was like, that doesn't exist. Like, this is, uh. And so I realized that another piece of that visibility that I need to start talking about is the difference between booking with a professional travel agent that travels and knows how things work versus an AI who is just kind of like pulling random things from wherever. Right. And I know as a copywriter you run into that too. Like, it's not.

Speaker A: Yeah, but I, I often say, when you don't have the friction with the world, when you don't have the experience, really hard to get your information from something that doesn't have that. And, and, uh, we can, you know, there are situations when you don't need the human experience to have the information and to have the knowledge. But more often than not, what I'm finding when I get AI stuff is I'm like, that works in theory, but it doesn't work in real life. It doesn't work when you add in another person, when you add in the fact that somebody might have to pee, when you add in like, whatever the case may be. Right. So it's not always reliable for that reason because it just literally is not in the world experiencing how paint dries or whatever we're trying to ask it. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think that, like, I, I think that AI has a place for sure in certain things, but I think that, like, there's nothing like sitting. I have, uh, consultations with my clients, kind of like what we're doing right now, unless they're local and then it's at a coffee shop. But I'm like, trying to figure out what makes them tick. And so they'll say something in passing about, oh, yeah, my husband has a little bit of anxiety sometimes, blah, blah, blah. And I'm immediately honed in going, People with anxiety need a special kind of attention when they travel because otherwise they're going to be miserable and make everybody else miserable. But if I can create this little pocket of information here about, specifically at the, um, boardwalk, in that, you know, that here are some really great places to escape and have some quiet time. That's not something you're ever going to think to ask Google. You're not going to think about those different pieces. So the human connection and planning travel is just, it's huge and underrated, I think, from people that, you know, want to click on buttons that say book now 699 for a whole week, and you're like, oh, okay. But did you know what you're getting for that? You don't.

Speaker A: So AI is one of the. I'd say, one of the challenges that we're currently kind of overcoming. Um, what are some of the other things? Like the. Like, I've seen you navigate the pandemic and. And team members that have been kind of a challenge? Um, what are some of the tough client situations? Like, what are some of the things that you had to overcome as you've learned? And how is it. As. How has it grown you as a person in addition to growing your business?

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Um, so I will say it has made me more patient. It has also allowed me to have a different view of people. Um, I used to work with people in terms of caring for their children, and children and money are the things that people are going to be the most sensitive about. So this is one of those pieces that we're still dealing with the money aspect. And then in some ways, we're talking about their children and their family.

Speaker A: I was like, you have both.

Speaker B: Yeah, right. Um, and what I've realized is that listening to people is the most important thing, like whether it is one of my agents or it is a client listening before I react. So it has taught me a lot about stopping the internal dialogue in my own head and truly just listening to what's being said. Um, I had a crazy experience recently where a client is going to Universal, uh, Orlando, and I booked their package. We had this great. She's a repeat client also. Um, she's going in August. And then two weeks ago, Universal made a major change that impacted her vacation. And I saw it. I called her immediately, and I said, hey, just so you know, And I told her, and she lost her marbles. Like, she's never raised her voice. She's never been anything but completely kind to me. And she was, like, off her rocker, and I was stunned. And so we went through this whole thing, and I kept saying that. Like, she said, I misled her. And I was like, I. There's no. I didn't know this was coming. They didn't tell me this. Right. So I ended up ending the call with her, and I was sick over it because, uh, that's just not how I am. And two days later, she called. Then she was crying at this point, apologizing for being a, uh, quote unquote, maniac.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And. And what I kind of Went, okay. And I was like, I don't know what to do with any of this. And then she said, I've been dealing with, uh, a lot right now, and this was a big part of what we were looking forward to. And I'm ashamed of myself that I took it out on you. I know it's not your fault. As I was telling my friends and family about what my travel agent did, they all looked at me and tilted their head and went, how does your travel agent have anything to do with that? So I've learned not to take things personally, at least outwardly. I did beat myself up, even though I knew I wasn't the one that misled her, that there was just a change. Um, but I think in the grand scheme of things, I've realized that people come to you with all of their humanity, and sometimes you get the best of them, and sometimes you get the worst of them. But relationships make the difference, right? Like, because she'd known me for years and I'd known her for years, I didn't, like, get upset with her. I just was kind of, like, stunned. And I think when we realize that, it. It gives us more grace for everybody involved.

Speaker A: Um, so I think not taking it personally is key. And. And of course, we do take things, quote, unquote, personally because we want to do our best, but I really do think that so often it's like what somebody else is bringing to the when. When we are really doing a fantastic job, you know, so. But you are. You are a very good listener. I have noticed this about you many, many times. Uh, you do listen very closely, and you listen in a, like, in a deeper way than most people do, which I've always appreciated. The other thing I noticed about you, that I think you don't take this the wrong way, but I think at the be. When I first kind of started getting in peer groups and things like that with you, I think you had, um, a harder time with boundaries, and you've become much better at setting boundaries. And, like, part of that is probably just learning yourself and, like, being like, I can't crash into bed at 2:00am um, because I'm on the. Because I'm on a call with the client. But, uh, you. You have definitely gotten better, it seems to me, from the outside with. With your boundaries.

Speaker B: And I honestly attribute that to my network of fellow professional entrepreneurs, specifically women. I feel like there's been this ongoing conversation that boundaries are good, that they are healthy, and that has allowed me to do that. Right. Like, so certainly in the network that you built. And those conversations that we had, I'm also part of another one that we talk a lot about. Giving of ourselves endlessly doesn't benefit anyone. So that, um. And I think, honestly what I have found, which I was a pleasant surprise because I thought my clients would be mad that I had, like, I'm starting to put these things in place. I actually feel like they take me more seriously as a professional because they are like, she has a process, so she's got this. And that is exactly how it's supposed to be. Like, I, for example, when I book like, uh, a Disney vacation, people always want to talk about dining reservations. And I'm like, we will get there, but we are gonna start here because that's something we need to do, like, 60 days in advance. We don't need to do it now. And it's gonna be confusing for everybody. And they're like, oh, you've got a whole process. Yes, I've done this a few thousand times now. And people are like, oh, my gosh, I can let go. Like, I can just let it happen. And I think that, that, that was a surprise to me. I thought people would honestly be upset that I was saying, I'm no longer taking a phone call at 7am on a Saturday. Saturday.

Speaker A: And what a good. You know, I, I, I don't think we talk about this enough how boundaries really are a trust builder for our clients. Like, I've had the same situation where I'm like, no, that's not how we do it. We do it this way. And then they're like, oh, of course. I'm sorry. Like, I trust you 100%. You know, do, do the process. Take me through. So I really think it is a huge, huge trust builder. And, and honestly, I mean, I really do. I say this, and I'm trying to, like, really ingrain it into my body. But I think when we set a boundary, if somebody is truly going to disrespect that boundary, like, they are not the person for us. I have a, I have a former client who they constantly are, like, messaging me on WhatsApp. Like, I don't use WhatsApp for work. I will never use WhatsApp for work. And I probably have said this to them 15 times. He still does it. I mean, he's not a client at the moment even. That's the other piece of it. But so now I'm just like, I'm actually just going to ignore it, because if I don't use WhatsApp for work, it's none of his business. When I go onto WhatsApp and, like, check in with family or whatever I do use it for. Right. So. So I have to be strict with that. Same with Voxer. Right. Like, there are just certain things I do not use for work because they don't work for my brain. And it's not along with my process. I'm going to be disorganized. I'm going to lose things. And the more I think we can do that, if those people don't want to stick around, that's okay. Like, that. That wasn't my client anyway, you know.

Speaker B: Well, and I feel like that if that's. Let that seep into your bones for sure, because it is in mine now and is the hallmark of my personality that my people will find me and I'll find them. And I'm not taking.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: And I wouldn't even call it disrespect, because if somebody wants to be somebody that, let's say, calls on the phone constantly and that works for them and who they're working with, perfect. I had to let a client go that would call me unannounced, constantly, all hours of the day and night and the weekends. Um, and he did book travel with me. Um, but I kept saying, I. I can't take information like this. I can't take unscheduled phone calls because I'm literally on calls all day. Um, and also my process is this, so I don't lose something. The amount of things that I am balancing constantly, if it's not coming through in the ways that I can take them, they get lost. He was m. Big mad. He was big mad. But I was like, I'm sorry. I'm, um. Like, if you want to work together and you're okay with my process, great. If not, I could refer you to other travel agents that I know that do phone calls like that. But.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: And he was big mad. He did. He went away. But I think that, like, that's okay. Like, I was okay with that. Because, yes, I could have used the financial, like, uh, situation. But I'm also like, I'm not selling my soul. I have a process. It works really well for me and my clients, so I gotta follow that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. Um, okay. One last thing I kind of want to ask you. Well, two last things. Um, one thing I really appreciate about you is that you're always looking for ways to invest in yourself and your own personal growth and also your team. And I was just kind of wondering what something that You've learned over these past 12 years what was, like, your favorite investment in yourself or your team. How did that kind of change you?

Speaker B: Oh, this is an easy one. Um, when we first started the agency, we did, like, Facebook groups, like, to keep in contact. Um, and then I think it was the third or fourth year, I decided to host an agent retreat. And I rented a house in the middle of the woods in New Hampshire, and I invited all of my agents to come. And they didn't all come, because in this field, they're independent contractors, and everybody has, like, all different kinds of schedules and stuff. But at the time, I think I had 18 or 19 agents, and 13 came, and we spent a long weekend in the woods doing training. Um, I had vendors like Disney came to us in the middle of the woods. Royal Caribbean rolled up with their stuff in the middle of the woods, and we had campfire sing alongs. We had, like, work sessions. We have now done that every year since, except for 2020. We had to cancel it because it was planned for June 2020. Um, and people come from all around the country to go. Like, guru Weekend is a hallmark of what makes us who we are. And I need sleep. I know we've talked about that before when I tell you I am up every night until 1, 2 in the morning, because we're just sitting around eating smart food, popcorn, and just chatting. But the energy that they give me and that we. We give each other, and it's personal and professional. Last year's we did on a lake, uh, house on a lake, and we did yoga by the lake in the morning. And like, all of this stuff, it has made such a difference in the relationships and the bonds and the trust that we have for each other. I would without a doubt do a trust fall off a building into any of those people's arms.

Speaker A: Like, um.

Speaker B: So that's been pivotal for us.

Speaker A: I want something like that. I love. I love every time you do that. I'm like, that is the coolest idea ever. So I love that. Um, okay, and then my last question is just like, uh, what do you want to share about the Talk Travel to Me podcast? I love hearing about people's podcasting journeys. So how are you liking. Since you made your own? I know you made a big change with it. So how are you feeling about all that?

Speaker B: I love it. It's one of my favorite times during the week. Um, because I now I'm getting questions from listeners and getting questions from friends that listen that really aren't even that interested in Travel. But they're like, oh, I'm curious about this. So I love that aspect. I also love the ability to just. I don't plan anymore. Like, I literally am. Like, people will ask a question, like, one of them is coming up, where are the most romantic spots in Walt Disney World? And so, like, I've been there so much. I was there on my honeymoon. Granted, it's been a long time, but, like, I like to just riff about it. And, you know, they're shorter episodes now, and it's one topic, so I can kind of just talk. Um, it feels creative, which, you know, again, I didn't attribute to myself for that. Um, but it's fun. The struggle I have, though, is finding time in my day. Like, I actually mentioned to my husband, who is my editor now, I was like, oh, I'm doing a podcast with Emily today. He's like, oh, that's great. When are you gonna record the one? It's supposed to drop on Thursday of your own.

Speaker A: And I went right after. Right after.

Speaker B: I was like, well, I already have the mic out, so maybe I'll just do it then. We.

Speaker A: We'll give you five minutes of your time back. I'll get you out early.

Speaker B: Yeah. So that's it.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. All right. I love that. So, uh, Christy's podcast, like I said, will be in the show. Notes, make sure to check it out. And I agree, I'm not. There's things I'm not wildly interested about when it comes to travel, but I just like to hear, like, it's like a relationship podcast just as much as it is a travel podcast, because you'd be like, should you travel with your mother in law? And then you get into all these dynamics about mother in laws. I'm like, this is awesome. So, yeah, um, definitely check that out. Okay. In closing, if you could go back to 2014 and you're like, you're. It's us, but you're getting to talk to us as the. You now, what advice would you give us about the next decade of business ownership, which we can also, like, pass on to people coming behind us or alongside us?

Speaker B: Okay, absolutely. I would say lean in to relationships with other women on this journey. Because the most pivotal, the one that you and I have for sure. And then I have other people that I've walked on the path with too. They have given me so much energy and support. Even if I'm, like, just watching them, you know, like, that is, um. I could get emotional thinking about just the impact. And I had no idea. None that there would be those level connections with. And I'll say you, because I'm talking to you at the table. Like, lean into the mattress thing. Maybe ask her what an organic mattress is. Right. Because my 2026 self would actually like to have one that I'm not laying on a mattress with chemicals. So I'll just say that. But I think leaning into that and trust yourself, like, listen to yourself, because you have the answers that you need in terms of what you want if you just listen.

Speaker A: So I think such great advice, and you brought it full circle the month of. Oh, the people you will meet. So I love it and I really agree. Find your people and, um, and stick close, you know, and it may look different for every single one of us. Some of us, it looks like groups. Some of us, it looks like these kind of like one to one little pockets. So it looks different in all the ways we go about it. Um, but it really, really is. It's. It's essential for business growth and also personal growth. I think so.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: All right, Kristi, thanks so much for joining me. Now you got five minutes to record your episode.

Speaker B: I'm going to do it.

Speaker A: Um, I'll have you. I'm definitely going to have you back again. This was so fun.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

Speaker A: Thanks for joining me on this week's episode of Small Business Casual. If you want more business advice that's a little quirky, not too buttoned up, one less accessory. And, uh, just right. Visit my website, emilyaborn.com and connect with me over on Instagram. Uh, Elyaborn. I'll be here, cozy slippers in hand, to help you design a business you love.

Speaker B: Sat.