5 Ways to Connect & Be Seen: How Who You Know Increases Your Visibility

Emily Aborn: Hello, my friends, and welcome back to a very special episode of Small Business Casual. Last week, if you recall, we talked about how the next person you meet could change your life. And how no matter what the problem you're looking to solve in your life or your business, the answer is usually to meet people. So today I want to talk about what happens after you meet them. And even more than that, how can other people help us to be more visible? How can we, as a community, build one another up and actually amplify our efforts together? So you may already be familiar with my tried and true, out of the box ways to increase visibility. I've been teaching this framework year for years. I've waxed on and on and on about these topics. I've given workshops on them, spoken at events about them. I've been on a guest on other people's podcasts about them, all individually and also, um, all together as a framework. So if you've never heard them, uh, two things. One, there will be a link in the show notes with past episodes that could get you started. And two, I'm just going to share them right now. So my five, I call them the five C's of, uh, marketing and visibility. And they are consistency, collaborations, creativity, cohesion, connection, and community. So today I decided, you know what, instead of just me talking about all of these things, because they are in line with my theme for June, which as, oh, the people you will meet. Um, I thought to myself, that's pretty boring to just hear from me talking about them all over again. Um, and also it could be fun to hear what other people say about them and how they define them. So I had, I decided to have the people I know and I love and I like and I trust to come share with you instead. So here's what I did. This is a collaboration within a collaboration. These are connections within the connection I'm making with you. Consistency, cohesion, bada bing, bada boom. You get the idea. It's one big meta juice, juicy, exciting episode. This one's good. And it's got finally someone other than just me blabbing in your poor ear. So I hope that you'll enjoy it. These are clips of longer conversations that I had with each of the guests. So you'll get more from them. Um, I'll be bringing their full episodes. You can gleam more of their wisdom and give my valued guests even more of a moment in the sun. But without further ado, I want to bring in my first guest who's sharing about collaborations and what that means to her, it is a long time collaborator and friend of mine, Karen Kenney. Karen and I first met when she was a guest on my. She built this podcast, which was my first podcast back in 2018, and since then we've been collaborating and connecting and just like having a blast doing so. So before I tell you about her, I also wanted to share an upcoming workshop that we have for folks who are local at the 11th letter in Concord, New Hampshire. It's on Saturday, June 20, Friday from 1 to 4pm and it's called so you want to start a podcast? We're doing a podcast summer school series and this is part one of the Classroom Fun. We're going to be helping small business owners, entrepreneurs, creatives, hobbyists, anybody who has a message to share and wants to go from idea to launch with confidence. So that link will be in the show notes. Uh, everyone's bios and links will be in the show notes. And that is definitely not the last you've heard of that event, so stay tuned. Um, without further ado. Yes. So Karen is a writer, speaker, podcaster, certified spiritual mentor, gaitless writing teacher, Thai yoga, massage therapist, a whole bunch of other things, and a coach. And she's got a seriously awesome Boston accent, a great sense of humor. She's a fabulous storyteller, a really good friend. Um, she has changed my life in so, so, so many ways. So here is what Karen has to say about increasing your visibility through the power of collaboration. You and I are going to be collaborating on a podcasting workshop in person this month in June. Uh, yes, we're hosting at the 11th Letter. So you want to start a podcast, which is one of three parts of our podcast summer school series at, uh, in Concord, which I'm really, really excited to do. Um, but you and I have worked together quite a lot and it has always been, I have to say, we. I started collaborating with you, I think when I had like been through the ringer with a couple of collaborations and it was like such a refreshing delight. It was such a treat. Um, and it taught me that I really like, at first I thought I didn't like collaborating, but now I'm like, oh, it's really great when you find collaborations with the right people. Um, so I thought all that said that you were the perfect person to talk about like the power of collaboration to increase our visibility, but also maybe touching on why it's so important to find, find the right collaborators and any kind of like, advice you would have for people looking to increase their visibility through collaboration.

Karen Kenney: Okay, So I think first and foremost, before we even get into the visibility pot, because to me, the visibility pot isn't going to happen if I'm not hanging out with people I actually like. So, um, because if you don't like them, and we've talked about this before, if you don't really like them or respect them or respect their work or feel a coherence or feel, um, you know, like a. A connection to them in a positive way, then you're not going to want to share the podcast episode, you're not going to want to be associated with them, you're not going to want to do more and actually put it out there. So you will actually be reducing your visibility if you're in a shitty collaboration, you know what I'm saying? So first and foremost, it's like, you got to know yourself, okay? You really got to know who you are. Like, let's assume we're collaborating for this podcast thing that we're doing, okay? So we're doing this summer series. We know we get to hang out together three months in a row, right? I don't want to spend that much time with anybody unless I really love them and, like, enjoy their time together, right? But I got to go into it knowing, why am I even doing this thing? The bottom line that I do, and I did a podcast once, I think I called it, like, relationships, uh, collaborations is number one. I look at it like a relationship. And any relationship I go into, I want to be wicked clear about what I bring to the table, right? What, what, like, my personality quirks, my strengths, my weaknesses, what, what goes on inside of me, all those things, and then I gotta be looking at the other person. So my rule of thumb is, are, ah, we better together? Because if I feel like I could do this thing better on my own and not have to run everything by the other person or make sure it's balanced or fair, or what if I want to charge a higher price than them? Um, whatever. I'm like, if we're not gonna be better together, why even do it? So I'm always looking to collaborate with people who I think are gonna bring something exciting, different, new, um, different pov. They're gonna brighten the color of our collaboration, you know what I mean? And I absolutely have to like them, respect them, and would, like, refer to them. So to me, that's the big thing, is when I go into something, I look at the other person. Uh, and I also think to myself, okay, so, like, when you and I work together, because we've already done it so many times. I know how this is going to go, and I don't even think about it. I'm like, Emily's gonna, like, start doing the copy pieces, even though we're both writers, right? But, like, you're a copywriter. You do that for real. I'm like a, you know, a storyteller and a writer over here. Um, but I'm like, okay, Emily's gonna show up and she's gonna have, like. Even though we're both. We're both very organized people, we're both, I think, good communicators, whatever. But I know what you are bringing to the table, and I know it's going to be fun. I know it's going to be impactful. I know that people are going to get what we say. We're going to, you know, give like, we're not going to bamboozle people, whatever. So collaborating with you is always really fun. But I think the underlying things that makes it work is we genuinely like each other. Um, we're friends. That helps. Um, but I think there's respect, there's trust, and there's like a mutual, like, I think, enthusiasm for each other that we share creativity and stuff like that. So I'll pause there because I know I said a lot in case you want to respond to any of that.

Emily Aborn: Well, one thing I want to add is you're so right. If there's something that we could be doing by ourselves, that is the best choice. But when two people come together with. With how we are, um, and the right. Any right collaborator, you're going to be creating something, like, even bigger and better than you possibly could have created on your own. And that's what I love about. Just specifically when we do the copy part of these projects, right? So we're coming up with the. I'm coming up with the original draft of the copy, and then Karen's, like, collaborating on that. And then I'm like, I never would have thought to say it like that. I never would have thought to do it like that. So it. It just elevates your collaboration so much more when you are collaborating with the right people. And then that's part of why that visibility spark grows even bigger. Because it's like, there's now more excitement, there's more delight, there's more enthusiasm. It's. It's a better message, right? So I agree.

Karen Kenney: And I think it becomes more like, um, I think of it like magnets. It's more attractive, right, when you can sense, like, oh, there's good energy around this. There's. You can tell they're both enthusiastic, they're both posting, Right? So now, even just the simplest, how do you get more visibility? Well, when there's two of you, there's twice as many, like, social media posts or mentions on podcasts or reaching out. When two or more get together, there are. I always think about it like this. You know, I'm a spiritual mentor. That's one of the things that, that I am and that I do. And I do think that there's a kind of a spiritual component. Whether some people call that the woo or whatever, you can just think about it simply as energy. When two or more are gathered, some shit's gonna happen, some good stuff is gonna happen, you know, so everything kind of gets amplified. That's how I think about it. And when you're doing work with other people or collaborating with other people, and it's a good fit and it goes really well and it feels successful, you might want to do it again. But not only that, now that person might say, let me introduce you to this person. So even that, like, your reach just expands. Because remember that old, um, shampoo commercial? I think it was herbal essences, and it was like, and they told two friends, and so on and so on, um, and so on. So even just getting together, you now, if it's a trusted and, like, safe relationship where you would feel like, oh, I could introduce this person or I could refer or recommend this person, and they're going to show up on time, they're going to be professional, they're going to do their job. It just increases your network and your ability to connect with others. So I think there's a lot of ways that collaborating together increases your visibility.

Emily Aborn: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Okay, next we have, uh, somebody else I'm a huge fan of Christy Willette. Christy is the owner of Mickey Guru Travel Company. And not only is she magical as, uh, the magic wand should have let you know, but I chose Christie because she is so good at pivoting. She's so good at thinking outside the box and being creative. And she really uses the power of creativity when it comes to being visible and her marketing. So I've really seen her business grow and grow and grow over the last 12 years that we've known each other. She's someone who doesn't naturally think of herself as a creative quote unquote. So I thought it was like, the perfect choice. Christie's going to share how creativity can increase your visibility all right, I got a question for you. So you've been running Mickey Guru travel company for over a decade, and I've been watching you. Not like, in a weird way, but I've been watching you. And I know you have always had to, like, pivot and innovate, and you're always doing things differently. And I think very creatively. To stay competitive in what, or sorry, to stay visible in what is a very, very competitive industry. Like, the travel industry is very competitive. So I was wondering, like, in your opinion, how do you think that your creativity has helped? Like, when you're looking for new approaches or pivoting when things aren't working or changing things up, how do you think creativity has helped you to stay visible and relevant?

Christy Willette: So it's funny because I've never thought of myself as a creative person. Like crafts, I can't do them. I draw like a three year old still. Like, it's crazy. But what I've realized about myself is that I am a master problem solver.

Emily Aborn: Yes.

Christy Willette: So, like, you put an obstacle in front of me, and if it's between me and what I want, I am going to figure out a way to dismantle that thing. Right. Um, and so I think that that's where my creativity comes from. And in this industry, you're right, it is very competitive. Um, it's fast moving and problems come out of nowhere. Like, it's not like something where you can be like, oh, there's a thing coming down the pike. It's like, bam, worldwide pandemic. You don't have a business anymore. Right. Like, all of these things. But I think the way that I tend to look at the world in terms of, okay, I got this. Even when I'm crashing out and I don't got this, I have that underlying belief that I'm like, I can figure this out. And I focus on what the humans around me need first. So an example of that, for me, the biggest one we can even think of is Covid. I remember when it was, you know, back in the, oh, it'll just be two weeks moment. I had clients that were set to leave on vacation. They've already been paid in full. They're like, they're leaving tomorrow or a week from now. And I had to very quickly go, okay, what do I need? I need to figure out how to cancel their trips. I need to figure out how to get their money back for them. Um, and I need to do it yesterday. Right. So, like, I just went full head into that. My business also has at, ah, my separate client, which is my team of travel advisors, who needed something else entirely. Um, and for them, it was like, okay, we need a. What do they call those? Like, breaking rooms. They needed space to just break. Because, uh, at the time, travel agents really only made any income after their clients traveled. So I needed to create a space for them to be like, we've worked on these trips for 12 to 18 months and now we're not getting any money Money. Like, we didn't earn anything on these things because we are canceling them and no one's traveling. Um, so creating a safe space for them to scream and, like, really process through these emotions. I mean, we sat there for hours, days on end, and just cried and like, oh, I canceled this much today and that much. But by focusing in on what the people in the moment needed, I was able to just continuously pivot, right? Like, my clients, when it went beyond two weeks, my travel clients, I should say, when it went beyond two weeks, everybody was like, what are we doing with our kids? We're stuck at home with these children. They're not at school. Like, So I was like, you know what? Let's do a Toy Story week. So I sent them all an email on Monday and said, watch Toy Story with your family this week. Here's some Toy Story related snacks. And then on Friday, we're going to get together on Zoom and have Toy Story trivia, right? Like, and I had over 75 families join in on that because, wow, they had nothing else to do, right? And they were like, somebody's gonna save me from the chaos of my own family for at least an hour. M. So that constant ability to just kind of, like, pivot and think about the other people has really made that, uh, it's been a core function of what I've done and why I think we've been so successful, despite all of the balls being tossed at us all the time.

Emily Aborn: I love this for two reasons. And then I have one more question for you. So, one, I love that we often think of creativity as art projects. Writing, painting, playing music, whatever. It looks so many different ways. And actually I'm like, oh, I gotta do an episode on all the different ways that creativity can manifest itself. A. Um, so I love that you brought to light, like, problem solving, because that's a huge form of creativity, and we need that. That's, like, the key to innovation, right, Is being able to look at a problem and say, all right, what else? What's option C here? What. What are we missing?

Christy Willette: Yeah.

Emily Aborn: Um, and Then secondly, I love that you did not just glaze over the fact that things weren't going well, so you didn't just jump right to the next thing. You let everybody, including yourself, like, really feel your feelings, really acknowledge that this sucks and everything is going to hell in a handbasket right now. What are we going to do about it? So I really love that because I think that, um, we can jump right to those solutions or the bright side or the silver lining or whatever without actually taking time to kind of like process what's actually happening. So I really loved both of those parts of your answer. If somebody is looking to just get a little bit more creative in the way that they're being visible, I know you've tried lots of different things. Like you've done TikTok and you've shown up on Instagram and you have a podcast and you've just done a lot of different ways of putting yourself out there. So if somebody is looking for like a few ideas from, from your, from somebody who's been in business as long as you on how to be more creative when they're trying to get visible, where would you kind of like first steer their cruise ship?

Christy Willette: Um, I. So this might sound a little woo woo and I, I am a little woo woo in things, but I would recommend sitting just quietly by yourself with like a pen and paper and, and figure out what it is that you want to say and then choose the platforms that make the most sense for that. Yeah, that has been what's worked well for me. And I am a little bit of everywhere I have the most fun in, on TikTok and on my podcast, like, for me, because that's where I can be completely who I am. Unhinged. Like, uh, to a point. I mean, I. But like, you know, like, I'm the same person in person as I am there. Um, and I think choosing a place that you feel comfortable and that you feel like is accessible to you for whatever that looks like is the key. But you can't be everywhere all at once. I heard that from somebody that I respect an awful lot on their podcast. Um, and it made a lot of sense to me. So sitting down and being like, what is it that I want to communicate? How do I enjoy communicating? And you know, their factor is where your ideal client is going to be is certainly part of that equation. But if you hate Instagram and you're like showing up there every day, your ideal client, if they see you, is not going to be engaged by you because you're Miserable and they can tell. So to me, that's where I would start with that process.

Emily Aborn: Okay. Literally, I mean, just, uh, mic drop. Because you. I literally just this morning was writing out ideas for my end of the month podcast, and it's going to be like, if you hate it, leave. Like, if you don't, like I was sitting in something, I'll get into it. I'll tell the story in that episode. But that's exactly. I believe the exact same thing. So, yeah. All right, Christie, I will let you go. Thank you so much for sharing your insider knowledge and all the links to, um, Christie's podcast and TikTok. You want to check out all of those things. Those are going to be in the show notes, along with all the other wonderful guests that have joined me today. Okay, next up, I can't wait to bring in my birthday twin and my very frequent collaborator, Jessica Mercier. Uh, again, again, I'm a huge, huge fan of Jess. Jess is a branding strategist, artist, designer. She does an amazing job of blending artistic vision and intuitive design. So we're going to talk about cohesion, and what we're really talking about here is cohesive branding. I'm talking about the kind that goes inside and out. It matches the inner and the outer with somebody's business and creative venture. So get ready, here comes Jess. She's going to share how cohesion can help increase our visibility. Okay, so you've been a brand designer now for a long time and you've seen a lot in the world of people having, like, mismatched, not just fonts and colors and branding that's all over the place, but also kind of like messaging that doesn't match up their branding. Right. So I'd love to hear from your perspective why you think that visibility or how, I guess visibility and credibility are impacted when things are scattered or misaligned. And ah, like I said, like I'm talking about, yes, the fonts and the colors and everything, but also inconsistent voice, inconsistent messaging, that kind of thing. Like what changes when everything is finally cohesive.

Speaker D: So the most important part that we have to remember is that cohesion is. And the cohesive part of your visibility in your branding is the touch point of trust. And, uh, when. When you have things that are all over the place, it's the. It looks scattered. It looks like you don't know what you're doing. It looks like you're throwing noodles at the wall. It looks like you are just haphazardly throwing things together and you don't have A plan. And when somebody. Somebody is looking at a business to work with, they need to know that trust is the most important thing, because they're investing with you. They're purchasing something from you, and if they can't trust you, then they're not going to do that. So when you have, you know, all this very serious content, and then all of a sudden you have something that you throw out that was like a trendy dance clip, like, that doesn't work with your brand. If you're trying to follow a trend and it's not cohesive with what you're doing, that's a thing that throws people off. You know, your brand and your message have to go down a path, and people kind of want to know what to expect from you. And I think that that's the most important thing is to remember that your brand and everything that you put out there is there to show people who you are and to have them. Have them build trust with you.

Emily Aborn: Yeah. So it's really like you becoming kind of the captain of your own ship. You show them, okay, I also can lead you, and you can trust me with what I'm. What I'm guiding you in or strategizing for you or doing for you, because I've got my. I've got my direction and my true north. So thank you so much. That's helpful.

Speaker D: Of course.

Emily Aborn: All right, next up, we're going to talk about consistency and community. And whether you love or hate consistency, it really is one of the keys to getting more visibility. There is no one on this planet more consistent than Alex Sanfilippo, owner and founder of Pod Match. And we had somebody get sick in my master plan. Um, so she was unfortunately unable to join us. But Alex is also going to talk very appropriately, uh, about the power of community and connection, too, which perfect fit, because he builds those things each and every day. All right, Alex, I got two questions for you. Uh, one is around consistency. I said in the introduction, you are literally the most consistent person I know. I mean, seriously, I don't know how. I know you have a team behind you, but I don't know how you do it. Um, so you've really. What I see is that you've built Pod Matches by doing consistent daily action steps. And by that, I don't just mean posting regularly, but I also mean consistently being there, consistently listening to community members. Um, so I was wondering, in your opinion or definition, how you think that consistency helps to actually increase our con. Our visibility in our, like, marketing efforts.

Speaker E: So when I think of consistency. I actually think of the word boring, which is a weird.

Emily Aborn: Boring.

Speaker E: It's a weird first thought, but I think to uh, a John Acuff quote. And I wrote this down, it's the only thing I wrote down to share today with everybody because I think it's really important. But he says, uh, the real reason people procrastinate is because excellence is boring. And he also says the road to remarkable is paved with a whole lot of boring.

Emily Aborn: And so true.

Speaker E: When I read those quotes, like, those aren't mine. That's John Acuff. But when I read those quotes from him, I was like, that's what I do. Like that's, that's what I'm willing to do. And so for me I'm able to stay consistent because I've, I remain devoted to what I said I was going to do. There uh, will never be a movie about Alex Sanfilippo or about Pod Match or anything that I create. It would be super boring. And I'm not selling myself short. I love what I do, but I just know that if I'm going to accomplish something that truly is great, that is remarkable, I'm going to have to be okay with the fact that doing things excellently is going to be a boring day by day task. And to a lot of people, I mean, you hear that, it sounds discouraging, but the reality is boring doesn't actually mean not fun. It doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyable, doesn't mean you can build, you can't build a great life around it. As a matter of fact, I find that most people that have achieved great things are okay with like this, these sprints and these uh, marathons even of boring. And then you can kind of step into like man. But my life is incredible. And like the work I've made is so impactful. But it happens just a little bit day after day. It's not like yesterday I was nothing. Today I'm everything right. And I think being okay with that is the very first thing that has helped me understand the importance of remaining consistent. Because that's, that's what it takes at the end of the day.

Emily Aborn: I so agree. And my boring life. Just speaking from we, we kind of have the same neuroses I think around consistency. But uh, it's so meaningful and I find so much joy in like the simple little daily tasks asks. So I am wondering if you have any kind of like secrets or M tips that you would offer somebody else because I know a lot of people hate the word consistency and really struggle with the word consistency. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for those kind of folks.

Speaker E: Uh, definitely. I could, we're keeping the short, but I could go on for an hour about this, but I'll just kind of high level bullet point stuff. This, this stuff. Uh, first, the answer for me is always no. So if you, if I get asked to do anything, my answer is automatically by default no. Now I can change my mind, but most people default to yes because we say, oh, opportunity, I gotta, I gotta go with that. But the thing is, not every opportunity to be taken, not every door needs to be walked through you. If you know where you're going, it's easy just to say no. And so for me, I say no to at this point, 95% of podcast asks me to be a guest on them. Rarely does someone as incredible as you, Emily, um, show up where I'm like, absolutely yes, right? Like, other than that, it's a definite no. So I always tell people say no. Every yes has to be protected by a thousand no's. Every time you say yes, you have to protect it with a thousand no's. So my yes is pod matched my main company, my main thing. So I say no to everything else I can. And beyond that, the other thing I like to remember is consistency is, I use like the word focus as an acronym for this. So focus to me means follow one course until successful. Follow one course until successful. And so for me, once again, if I'm following that one course until successful, I have to, to say no to a lot of things. And so these are some things have helped me along the way. And listen, everybody, I'm naturally a people pleaser. Saying no is actually really difficult for me until I realize that every time I do say yes, I'm actually saying no to a whole lot more. So if I say yes to being on Emily's podcast, If there was 10 other things that I could have been doing during this time, I actually said no to all those other things and all those other people. And so it's like, wait a minute, Saying yes is actually more people plea or less of people pleasing than saying no. Saying no means I can open up to everybody else. It's a simple shift in your mindset. So for me, I just say no because I know that means I'm saying yes to many more people than who I'm saying no to. And so I just had to have that mindset shift. Even though for me, naturally I want to help everybody, I want to Please everybody, right? That's who I am. But I know the power of being able to just say, you know what the answer is going to be no, so I can say yes to everybody else.

Emily Aborn: I love that I need to learn the default answer being no. That's a really, really good one. And I can be a, uh, people pleaser at times too. So, um, okay, I. Thanks for picking up and answering two questions. You're the only one who's gotten two. But you know, you, in addition to being super duper consistent, you're also a really great community builder. And for you personally I think that's really increased your visibility. But how has building such a vibrant community and creating like the connections that you do, how do you think that that's helping not just you and your marketing and visibility as a company, but also the individuals within the community. How is it kind of amplifying?

Speaker E: Uh, I'll answer it in the order you put it in first. What is it doing for me? Then what's it doing for actual our members, the people that make up the Pod Match ecosystem for me? It helps me stay consistent because it reminds me of why I'm doing it. If I silo myself as a founder, which a lot of software founders do, it's very easy to forget why you're doing it and who it's for when you're just in your own little ecosystem, just you, right. And everyone else is out here and it's just funneling money and numbers back and forth. Right. But when you're actually in it, it's really easy to remember why you got into it. Because I'm actually seeing somebody post something where I'm like, oh man, I can see that they're, they're, that's a pain point. We do need to work on that. Instead of me just being like team, tell me. Right. And by the way, I, I don't have much of a team. There's three full time people that work podmatch and they're the three co founders, me, my wife Alicia and our other co founder Jesse. And we're the only three full time employees and we have just a few people that help all with administrative stuff. And that's because we wanted to be front facing. We want to be part of the community for that reason of uh, we want to make sure that we stay remembering who we're serving. So it helps me remember my why, my purpose behind it. It helps me remember my avatar because I'm around them a lot and it keeps me again just grounded in the Fact that, like, okay, we said we're going to do this, and people are still talking about it, they're still struggling with it, or it's working really well, let's keep on going. And so for me, it makes it easier to stay consistent because I'm able to actually see firsthand somebody's life. It's impacting in a positive way or something we haven't done yet, that it's impacting a negative way until we can get there, right? So it's like motivation to keep on going. So for me, the community side, it keeps me honest, keeps me moving, keeps me consistent. On the flip side, uh, what it does for the others is I'm realizing more and more we live in a world where we are starved for human interaction. Like, I don't know a better way to say it other than the fact that we're lonely. Like, people were just lonely. And it used to be we'd go to the Internet, we'd go to social media, where we felt like, oh, we can connect with our friends. But now even social media is such an individualistic experience. There's no more interaction happening, really. It's just you, your own feed, you don't really see your friends anymore anywhere. It's just whatever's gonna keep you on the app for as long as possible. And our friends are boring, right? So it's like, okay, our friends are boring. So show me the most interesting thing happening in the world right now. And so what I've realized is, because that's the reality of where we are as people, we're more alone in person, like in our communities. And every four and online, we're feeling more alone as well, that people are starved for some sort of community. A lot of software companies don't do what we're doing when it comes to having a spot where the community can go, they can hang out, they can talk, because they're afraid of what could happen from that, right? Like, what bad thing could be said, or what if it comes turns into more work? And listen, both those things can happen. But we have built something that truly, I think, stands out in the marketplace in, uh, the podcasting industry, but also just in software, because we're willing to go there, we're willing to say, hey, listen, let's not be alone. Let's do this together. And, uh, the foundation of all this, I think back to a Helen Keller quote where she said, alone we can do so little, but together we can do so much. And for me, I just think of a community as, let's do much together, right? Like, let's not go, let's not go the path alone. It can be too lonely. Let's do this as a group together. Is it more work? Yes. Is it the most rewarding part of what I do? Absolutely. And it's just great getting to see the testimonials that come in from people just doing well right in the podcasting space. It's motivating, encouraging to me and to the other members as well.

Emily Aborn: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I totally agree with you that rising tides raise all ships. And I think what you're doing within that community, just every single person, is a little ripple effect making all these other ones. So thank you for being the the stone that caused that. All right, big thanks to all four of my fantastic guests for helping me out with the five out of the box ways to increase your visibility. It Ah, just a quick recap. We talked about creativity, cohesion, collaboration, consistency, community and within community building that connection. And I really believe that if you can rethink your marketing efforts to focus on those five things, you are going to have one heck of a leg up invisibility. And the good news is you don't need social media for any of those things. So thank you for playing and being part of the fun today, the compilation episode. Um, I'll see you next week where we're going to discuss being intentional when and where you decide to show up. Thanks for joining me on this week's episode of Small Business Casual. If you love the show, make sure to rate, review and share it with a frazzled business owner that you care about. Because this shouldn't feel like a roller coaster ride, more like a scenic train ride with snacks. Don't forget those snacks.