104: Remember Why, Then Let Go pt 2

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Rethink sales podcast. I'm, um, Mark Danolo. And let's pick up with part two of our conversation with Andres Hoyos Gomez. And we're going to talk about how we solve the problem around understanding customer challenges with coffee in Paris.

Speaker C: Wow. So when we think about the problem that you're solving is that you're kind of bringing together the entire ecosystem from growing a bean to drinking that cup. Right. So you're bringing together those pieces and facilitating relationships, farmers, providing access to people that want to roast. Roasters understand where to source the beans. I know that can be a real challenge. Um, and then how do they become excellent at that? So I understand what, what it is you're solving for. And that leads to, though, when you start talking about societal impact, like, what's the mission of your company? Like, what is the big vision you've got for this? When we think about, you know, today, tomorrow, 10 years down the road.

Speaker A: Uh, absolutely, absolutely. So here. So I decompose in the. Like this. So what I call vision is basically what do we want the world to be or to look like when we have a contribution? What does the world look like? The mission is, uh, what we actually do to get there. Like our contribution to that. Uh, then there is strategy and so on. But basically, vision, mission. That's how we look at that. So vision for us is craft coffee, as in artisanal coffee, or some people call it a specialty coffee. But craft coffee should be the norm and not the exception. That's kind of vision, as in, as in what we put in the wall. What I repeat every day and so on, is craft coffee should be the norm and not the exception. Yeah, that's kind of the general, the big. The big, uh, the north star vision, if I would say then mission. What we actually do to get there. Yeah, is two things. One is, uh, to, um, grow a community of rosters and to be a roster incubator. Yeah, that's one mission. To be a roster incubator. So in the beginning, it m meant to just kind of the service of the shared roastery, to lower the threshold for investment, to provide access to equipment, to know how we started like that. But as we grow, we host today like 30 rosters, more or less, 30 brands that we host. Uh, now, uh, the push is more to provide more, uh, training, not only technical, but business training, so that people can manage treasury and uh, literal operational management and stuff like that. Uh, so really one mission is to grow this community of roasters. And then the Other mission, which is a bit of the more traditional mission, is to be one of the beantu cup specialty coffee players, uh, so that we can keep our direct sourcing, have the coffee shops talk to the customer. And from a strategy point of view, what is interesting is that I, um, think our roasters community, our roster incubator, is worldwide distinctive. We were among the very first, and today there are only a handful, or not many, even if it's continuing. So that's really worldwide distinctive, I think. Um, but we do have the challenge now that there are many, many, many, many, many specialty coffee shop players. Even in France, we have the challenge to make that one distinctive. I think we're good many struggles, but I think we have to push three times more to make that part really distinctive.

Speaker C: Very cool. So I heard these three things. Um, the one is that you've got this aspirational vision. I love, love that, uh, it's your North Star. And I'm sure what keeps everybody going, because I'm sure the going gets tough. You've got very clear mission, multiple facets of that, and then a strategy to support. Very cool.

Speaker B: So, uh, you told me a story a while back about, uh, beans on fire. And, you know, you were in Paris and you had all these varieties of coffee that you were making and you tested them. Could you tell us that story because it was about the problem that you were trying to solve and maybe what you learned along the way?

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And it's also, I think, interesting because it's also a story how your or my, in this case, my passion and drive can actually become your obstacle. Yeah, because so we started this, uh, business on fire venture with, uh, the vision, you know, that Kraft Coffee should be normal, not the exception, and put the farmers forward and get the farmers out of poverty and show that coffee is as diverse as wine. Right. So another point is that, uh, if, uh, in France you have wine, uh, of Burgundy, wine of Bordeaux, wine of Provence, and the white wine of Alsace is not the same as the Provence, and the Burgundy is more, uh, floral, and maybe the Bourgogne is more tannic, and you have this huge diversity. So I built, let me say, according and consistent with that, an offering of coffees that reflected that diversity. I had five different coffees from Colombia and then two from Ethiopia and two from Kenya and one from Indonesia to have something from Asia. And I wanted to represent that variety. For example, it was for me very important to have, uh, five different coffees from Colombia because, uh, I hate to see in the supermarket when it says 100% Colombian coffee. For me, that's as meaningless as to say, 100% Italian wine or 100% French wine. Right. If you find on a shelf Something that says 100% French wine is the worst quality that you can find. Right. If you don't have, ah, Bordeaux grave 19, uh, 96 or 2005, whatever that is. Right. If you don't have that traceability to the estate and, uh, to the year, it's crap. Yeah. Or at least, uh, full traceability is better than, let me call it original wine. And if somebody tells you is a French wine and that's all it says is very bad. Yeah. So that's what I had in mind. Right. To propose, uh, to clients, this diversity of coffee. So that works very well in the coffee shop. Yeah. Um, but what happened is that, uh, we started to have office clients, meaning that people who came to the coffee shop said, we love your coffee. We would love to have that in our office. Because close to the coffee shop we had, um, uh, software agency and a number of developers working, or an architect, uh, bureau. And, uh, so we started to have people saying, hey, come present your coffees in the office. Yeah. And we would love to have a coffee in the office. As good as the coffee, we get into the shop. So just show us what you have and then we can choose something. But what kept happening is that we actually did win a few clients like that to start. Uh, but it stalled after the very first five, seven clients, uh, that came. I was like, hey, let's do this. This is an avenue of growth. Let's push. It's great. Um, but we started to have a very low conversion. So if we presented 10 tastings, we had only two clients converted. I was like, this is actually very, very, very low. What is happening? Uh, so we were two, three people in the team doing the tastings. Uh, what was more frustrating for me is that after the tasting, everybody said, it's amazing. People loved it, it was super fun. Uh, when it came to actually settle the contract and deliver something, nothing. One out of ten. Two out of ten maximum. So I was like, okay, what's happening here? Uh, when we started to actually more proactively, um, and really quote, unquote, grill and debrief the office managers, I said grill because they were telling us, we loved you, but, uh, we are not going to follow on. And we had to ask three times until we got an answer. And the answer was, we love it, but we don't know what to choose. Uh, you come to us with 15 different coffees, everything is great, but we have no idea what to choose between the five Colombian, the four Costa Rican, two from Panama and so on. We don't know how to do this. Like, we just want coffee. Like, like, like, sorry, like we love your story and this is great, but we, we want coffee and you offer us 15 different things. We have no idea how to choose out of this. Right? So then I said, okay, but um, you don't know how to choose. But uh, so then let me tell you this one. But they didn't like, okay, uh, but some people like it, but other people don't like it. So we don't know how to find one coffee that actually everybody likes. Right? So what ended up happening is that um, we had to understand how people drink coffee in the office. Which I was quite ashamed in the sense that after my 20 something years in consulting and I did a lot of consumer work and consumer journeys and customer experience and I did beautiful slide decks about how to hone your customer experience and so on, I didn't think out of my initial passion to show everything we had, I didn't think in the beginning to understand, uh, how do people drink coffee in the office that is very different from drinking the coffee shop. So the first obvious thing that I totally overlooked is that uh, we beans as uh, the provider of the coffee, we don't master the experience. The coffee is there on its own. So you don't have the barista to explain to show you to choose this and that and the coffee of the day, blah, blah. So there is not all the ceremonial that we have in the coffee shop to basically stage the coffee that we give. People go, they press a button and they get the coffee. So that's one thing. The second thing that I didn't know is that uh, in the end there are actually three or four ways people drink their coffee in the office. It's as simple as, uh, either they have it strong, either they have it mild, and a few people have decaf. And that's it. That's it, you know, like people want it either strong. If you ask people, how do you like your coffee? They, they know how to say, I like it strong, I like it mild or smooth. Uh, by the way, I don't drink too much coffee, I want decaf. That's as much as they can say, yeah, right. Or, and I, I guess you can relate to that, right? So that's kind of the, the most common denominator for that. So if you ask people how to choose they can say, I want strong, I want mild, or, uh, sorry, I don't drink too much coffee. I have nicf. That's it. Right? So after listening, which, again, after my years of, uh, very, uh, sophisticated experience, I was not, uh, aware enough to listen. After actually listening, I realized that I had to combine those two views, right? That people love the story. But I had to propose strong. Mild decaf. Yeah. While giving the possibility to double click. Right. So what then literally happened is that we put together a range, uh, where we said, okay, the strong. We called it the morning uppercuts. Like this, you know, uh, shot that, uh, wakes you up in the morning. Okay. Then we had one that we called the daily, Like a, uh, smooth coffee that you can drink many times in the day and they will not attack you and it's totally fine. Okay, Decaf. We called it the no limit. You can drink as much as you want. So we figured out a bit of a story for each. But we basically did a very basic branding for the strong, for the mild, for the decaf, always giving the possibility to double click and to know that, uh, the uppercut, the strong one is, uh, from Brazil, uh, with these characteristics, the altitude, the farm. And you can go look at the photos if you want. Same for the daily, same for the video. So. So we ensure the same traceability and people get the access to the whole background story if you want. But what they choose is strong or mild or they can, yeah, you had to go.

Speaker B: You could go, you had to go with what they, how they thought or what they, what they cared about, how they made decisions.

Speaker A: And this is where, again, with great humility, you know, I have to say, I had to listen, which is the basic thing you have to do all the time, right? But I had to listen. And to the little sophistication, which is not really a great, uh, discovery, is that, um, people did love the story. So they love to hear about the farmer and the voyage and to see the photos. So they do like that, right? But you need to give them a key of entry that is one that they can read that they can understand.

Speaker C: In addition to running this coffee company, you also, though, like, I looked at your LinkedIn and I thought it was very interesting. It's like, hey, I roast coffee and hey, I help leaders prepare for their next presentation. So talk to us a little bit about that work. I'm like, okay, that caught my attention. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. So this is, I guess today people call it a, ah, slasher you know, when you have like two or sometimes even more kind of, um, uh, facets in the life. And like many things, it came a bit of random word of mouth. So what happened? So let me tell you one angle to that, ah, story. I met, um, uh, Tina Chang. She's the founder of the pioneering collective. And pioneering collective is an um, accelerator amplifier of the influence for leaders. So there is a membership and the members, they get access to a number of resources to amplify their voice. And amplify their voice can be. Somebody wants to write a book, uh, somebody wants to become a known panelist or speaker in their field of expertise. Uh, somebody wants to hone their skills to be better known for who they are. They have a number of, of resources of this kind and support. And uh, uh, I met with Tina through um, um. Julie Morgenstern, who is a very great person, ah, and a friend, an author about time leadership that I used to work with as an external advisor when I was in McKinsey. When, uh, I met Tina, I was very intrigued that uh, American executives, on average and compared to European executives, are much more aware about their personal brand, their personal influence. And they have this skill that they think is a proper skill to go and talk and speak and get themselves known and to manage their brand. Uh, Europe, uh, relative, uh, to America is a bit more just do the work. You are an executive, you do the job. And uh, if you do the job well, you live your life. And so I was intrigued because, uh, through uh, Tina, ah, I came to realize that uh, American leaders were looking forward to practice the way they shared their story, either their personal story, either the story of their brand or a particular topic they want to be known for and stuff like that. I, uh, came to realize that that was something that actually I'm very strong on. That is something that made me also go through in McKinsey as a strong partner. Um, but I had never thought about it, uh, as a standalone skill.

Speaker C: Interesting.

Speaker A: For me it was like the extension of the consulting project. You do the work, you do the benchmarking, the data, the research, the interviews, you align and then you tell the story. It's part of the cycle of any consulting project. But through Tina, uh, uh, it was one of the strong experiences that made me realize that uh, some people look to polish that aspect in particular separate from having their own expertise. And I was like, huh, actually I know how to do it. I started to collaborate with uh, Tina. So it's something I do in particular through the pioneering, uh, collective, uh, what I like. And really the value for me, and I hope there is value for the members as well, uh, of course, is that, uh, we take a very privileged time, that is literally to polish and to make shine the contents, to bring it to life, to select what are the more interesting things, the angle, the counterintuitive ways to say it. That, uh, your story will actually. Bam. Will actually impact the audience, uh, and create that curiosity that will drive also people to know more. Yeah. Uh, yeah, so let me pause there. That's. That's kind of how high I got into that. Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, you made a comment once in that regard that soft, uh, skills. So you're talking about soft skills. Soft skills, which leaders I think have trouble with and think, you know, it's kind of squishy stuff, are actually hard skills. Maybe talk about that for a second.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so. Exactly. I came also to realize through that practice that, um, people tend to think about, um, communication, storytelling, even leadership. I think in general, they tend to think about that as soft skills. And I think it's actually hard skills. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And already it's not easy, right, to communicate or to tell the story, to lead people. There's nothing easy about that. So it's. For me, it's a total misnomer to call it soft because already it's hard. Right. Just as such. Then the other thing I realized is that, uh, if you think about, uh, communication, storytelling as a soft skill already, that creates a big obstacle because then people think, consider that because, uh, it's a soft skill, that it's about your personality, your style. Yeah. So people wonder and worry. Am I charismatic? Am I, you know, this big speaker, this great speaker like the Steve Jobs or Michelle Obama or whomever could be your great reference. Right. Uh, and you say, oh, but that's not me, so how can I be that? Yeah. So many people think that to become a great speaker or even a better speaker, they have to mimic, sometimes mimic the style of somebody else that they are not, or they think they have to betray who they actually are. I hear very often people telling me, ah, but I'm not like that, so how can I do it? Because it's not my style. And I am not very outspoken, not even going into extroverted. Extroverted. Everything around soft skills becomes like this elusive, fluffy thing that people don't know how to grasp. Conversely, if you look at this as a hard skill, it becomes very manageable. There is a grasp. Yeah. Because actually it's like, uh, playing tennis or playing the guitar. Or playing golf or playing violin. Right. It's about technique. It's about specific gestures. You start by basic things. When you master the basic things, then you can go into more sophisticated things. And so you might not become Rostropovich, uh, or Federer or Michael Jordan or. I don't know who could be. Again, you're referencing a great, uh, sport or music. But you can get better. For sure. You can get better. You know, and so that's what comes from looking at these. Like a hard skill and not, like a soft skill is practice, technique. Get there.

Speaker B: You know, I love your point about, um, paraphrasing, you know, people having to be trained to be themselves. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think we've all. We've all run into that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah. So sometimes when we're. If you. If you're thinking about transformation or change, and you were making a change, you know, obviously to sell in this way. Sometimes our past success can be a barrier for us. Like, we know how to do things. Like you said, you did all these things in McKinsey. You knew what you were doing, uh, yet there was a fundamental thing that you were looking past. I wonder if we could talk a bit about. About solving the problem, solving the right problem, or, you know, any, like, barriers that you've maybe you've seen with other people or things you've run into. Because, you know, I've done the same thing once or three times where it's like we're solving a problem, but it's because that's what I wanted to solve, and that was what I was passionate about. And then I realized nobody cared, like, you know, later on.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: You only did that three times. I don't know.

Speaker B: I blocked it out after that. But. But yeah, I mean, if you kind of. If you took this as a consultant, Andres, and you said, okay, I can take from this a few lessons about problem, uh, solving, uh, where people say, oh, I know what the problem statement is, and we start chasing it. What would you pull from that? I mean, there's the one you just talked about. But any other points you'd pull in terms of advice here?

Speaker A: If I try to abstract from this one, I think is one. Let me call it design thinking case, in the sense that what the customer wants is not what they say they want. Huh. What I mean by that is that even if I would ask them, how do you choose your coffee? How do you like it? They would never tell me, we want strong and mild and decaf. They never tell you that. Actually, the way I ended up really, really, really realizing that is basically to literally think, okay, how do they drink the coffee in the office? There is the machine. What do people drink? And to segment from what people drink, and what I saw is that people drink either the strong, either the mild, either the decaf. That's it. Even it happened to me, uh, um, uh, with an office client where they had Nespresso, the capsules. And one thing is that in the capsules, the selling point of the capsules is that you can have multiple variety. And every time you can put a different capsule in the machine. If you have, um, a machine, uh, with coffee beans, there is only one kind of coffee beans in the machine. One selling point on Nespresso is to say, actually you can put whichever you want and you have 10 different varieties and so on. But the reality is that if you look at the capsules that are actually taken by people, 90% is the green ones, or maybe 80% is the green ones, 15% is the brown ones, and then a little is the red ones. Yeah. And by the way, those, those, the green and the brown and the red are the strong, the mild, and the decaf. Right. So in the end, there, uh, is a huge assortment, and there are only three that really are relevant in 99% of the cases. Yeah. But that nobody tells you you need to count what are the capsules that are actually taken. And that's how you realize. And for me, it's about the same. I was literally sitting there in the office watching people to, to drink. And by the way, what I'm saying is not a nuclear science discovery if you think about it. That's what you see. Right. You just need to sample people and say, how do you take your coffee? How do you take your coffee? How do you deliver? And if you sample people, then you realize that that's the pattern.

Speaker B: Right, Right. So you're getting, you're taking your customer's perspective. Like, you know, you said, on the one hand, the customer doesn't really know what they want, but you're, you're then taking their perspective and looking at their behaviors.

Speaker A: So. Exactly. The point is that, um, they will tell you they want something. And, uh, you should listen to that. I'm not saying that you should ignore it. Right. But then you should also observe. What do they do?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah. What do they actually do? Right.

Speaker B: What do they say versus what do they do?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. What do they actually do? Yeah. And that is more telling than what they say, actually. Yeah. And so in this case. Exactly. The point is that they will say, we want a coffee that is uh, eco friendly, responsible, social, that has a story, that has an origin. And I was great. That's everything I have. I have 15 of those. Right. Look at all I have. That's exactly what you're asking me. Right. But when it comes to close the deal, it doesn't work because that's not actually what they buy. Right. In this particular case, there is even uh, a side element which is that the actual buyer is not every individual in the company who is drinking. The actual buyer is the office manager. Right, Right. And through that where I, then that's another, it became another selling point for me now is to say, look, you called me. That's what I now tell office managers when we get a first meeting. Uh, you called me because you love the story and you love the photos and the jazz and the farmers and you love the thing. But honestly, I think we can work together because we know that in your office, coffee is like WI fi, unlike the toilet. You need to work in some place, you need three things. You need the WI FI password. Right. You need uh, to know where is the toilet and you need the coffee.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If you have that, even if you don't have a desk or whatever, you sit somewhere and you can work.

Speaker B: That's true.

Speaker A: Right. And so like WI Fi and like the toilet, what you need is continuity of service. You need to be sure that uh, the bins are filled, there is not out of stock and that there is water, that the machine is not blinking and nobody knows how to fix it. And that's also the day to day life that nobody tells you. But if you watch what happens, if you watch what are the pain points? Those are the pain points. Uh, back to your question mark. The pattern to break is to listen and take good note of what the client says they want and what we think we should offer. Yeah. So that's good to note, but we need to observe what actually clients do, how they actually use or consume the product.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Does that match with what we actually propose? So there's a bit of the different, there's a different pattern between what we say and what we actually do on both sides.

Speaker B: And it's so simple that we can just walk right by that and completely miss it, you know?

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And why? Because we intellectualize.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: As in consumers intellectualize what they think or what they say they want.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And uh, we providers, we consultants, we service providers, we whomever we propose something, we intellectualize what we, what we offer.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then we, we probably blended a little bit with what we really want to do.

Speaker A: For sure. For sure. Absolutely.

Speaker C: I think, I think Mark is talking to himself.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, no, I could, uh.

Speaker A: It rings, it rings some bells.

Speaker B: I have a rap sheet. I have a rap sheet. No, no. Yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, I remember one moment we were, uh, preparing for, um, it was a big conference and uh, and we had. One of our, uh, marketing people was in the room and we were going gangbusters on all these ideas and she asked a simple question. What are we trying to solve for here? And it changed everything because we're like, no, none of this stuff really matters. Nobody cares. It's just what we thought was cool. So, um, so last thing I wanted to ask you is, um, if you were sitting down with an executive and kind of thinking, put your transformation hat on. Uh, and they said, you know, Andres, we're going to make a change in our company. And, and um, uh, we're getting ready to start. And it's something fairly big. Could be anything, but it's something fairly big. What couple or three words of advice would you give them before they jump in and they start doing that? Based on your experience overall, coffee, consulting, et cetera, what advice would you give that executive?

Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So here my sort of, uh, triptych is, um, remember why?

Speaker B: Mm, mhm.

Speaker A: Then forget about it and make it super concrete and then let go. Remember why? Forget about it, make it concrete and then let go. What do I mean? Remember why? Is, uh, regardless of what is your actual level of service offering, demand, uh, whatever. Remember why you are doing this. So in my example, remember why was. Okay, what I want is that, uh, on the one hand, uh, more people get access and consume actually good craft coffee. That's what I really want. And a coffee that is fair to the farmers, that is producing an artisanal wine. That's what I want to really connect those two. Connect the consumer with the farmer. That's what I really want. Yeah. Then forget about it. Isaac. I thought that the way to achieve that was to have my range with 15 different products, every one of them curated with all the technical information, very detailed and so on. And the thing is that by doing that I was making things too complicated for my client to be able to choose.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: In the office context. So I had to forget about the way I was practically doing what I thought connected with the purpose and say, okay, how do my clients actually drink? Is there any way that I can preserve, uh, all the Traceability and sell the story and so on. But still in a way that when I present it to my clients, I present it in the way they are going to consume it. I had to rethink or reconsider my actual offering and my actual, let me call it, experience. But thinking, okay, there is a very different way to fulfill the same purpose. But I need to forget about how today I am doing things. So let me see in a different way. So there is like a high level idea and there is a concrete way that I do it. Yeah. And I think those two make sense. But actually no, my clients are not buying. So I need to disconnect the two. I need to disconnect the high level idea from the concrete thing I'm doing now and let go of that.

Speaker C: Yeah. You have to be willing to let go of that. So that.

Speaker A: And that's exactly. And that's why the third step is to let go. Yeah. Because I was in love with my initial packaging. Yeah. The initial packaging was black and white, very austere, very straight to the point. Because my, my logic, my, my. The feeling for my brand was cut the. Forget about Josh Clooney. Forget about uh, the, the marketing brand of the FMCG is like forget about that. I'm giving you straight to the point. Access to the farm. The name, the traceability, the information. This is as transparent as it can be. Yeah. But I had to let go of that. Mhm. Go for a more, let me say traditional approach as in strong coffee, mild coffee, decaf. Yeah. That hurt me when I had to do that because. Hurtful. Yeah. But I eventually realized that there was a way to actually blend the two to combine stronger but give you still the traceability. M. Uh, so that's why I say remember why then forget about it and let go.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think about it as uh, is art versus design. Right. What you were doing was art because it was what you want to do. To do it was expression. Right. The way you were doing the 15 coffees design was I'm going to design the right answer for the customer that's going to use this. Right. They don't want all of the art that you have. They want a design solution for what they need.

Speaker A: Yeah. And actually for me the important point there is that um, um. What tells me and what I think tells any leader if they are actually making progress in a transformation is how much are you letting go of something you feel that you are doing through a transformation when it hurts that now we are going to stop this that forever was great and forever we loved it. And, uh, forever, this is how we did it. As soon as you can say, okay, this, we stop this, we cut this, we don't do again. This we are going to do in a different way. If it doesn't hurt, you are not transforming.

Speaker B: Yeah. Too often we're building upon what we've already created. We're building upon know the, the, the, the all the work that we've done and then that holds us back. Right. Um, think about this from a consulting standpoint. You, you work on this massive report for your client and you put all this effort in analytics interviews, like you're saying everything like that. And then your recommendations in the end are almost shaped by all that work that you did. That, that becomes kind of a burden versus saying, okay, we know all this, put the report aside, clean sheet of paper. What do we think? What does this mean? Right. Free yourself from all of the structures that you've created.

Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker B: Well, awesome.

Speaker C: Good advice.

Speaker B: Andres. Thank you very much for your time. It's been awesome talking with you and learning so much from you. How would people find, uh, out more about the Beans on Fire or your work? Where would they go?

Speaker A: Huh? Huh? That's a very, very good question. Today, the best way is the Instagram of the Beans on Fire. Yeah. Simply because it's the more lively. Yeah. And, uh, by the way, what I'm most, uh, happy. Proud, how you want to say it, is we, um, have many Instagram stories from others, from clients, from people who come and uh, you know, that's. That for me is the more.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Authentic thing is what people post about us. Right, Right. Like anybody else, we have our own posts and our own stories and so on. That's, that's, that's fine, let me say, but what is true is what other people see and appreciate. And they post with us. That for me is the best reflection.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Thank you. Thanks for spending time with us and we, uh, enjoyed your, your advice, your story.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. Gracious for the time it even reinspires me to go back to the trenches and continue.

Speaker C: That's great.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for joining us. And remember, SalesGlobe is a revenue growth, consulting and services firm focused on helping our clients reach their revenue growth aspirations through better solution development and operationalizing to get results.