The Future of Retail Media: Lessons from 2024

Speaker A: Happy New Year and um, welcome to Retail Media Moguls brought to you by Platform 195. I'm your host Stuart Adamson. In this special episode, we're revisiting some of our most impactful conversations of 2024. You'll hear from retail media pioneers who are transforming the e commerce and in store media landscape. Brand leaders who are pushing the boundaries of consumer engagement and technology and data innovators who are revolutionizing how we connect with shoppers. Whether you're a retail media veteran or just starting your journey in this dynamic field, these conversations offer practical insights, strategic wisdom and forward thinking perspectives that you won't want to miss. Let's dive into the best moments from retail Media Moguls 2024. So welcome to the Retail Media Moguls podcast. I'm your host Stuart uh, Adamson, founder and CEO of Platform 195. Today we're privileged to host Minnesota based David Glaser. One of the great pieces of advice, given the experience you've got is if somebody was coming in and wanting to sort of set up their own retail media piece within a mid level grocer in the states, what top three pieces of advice would you give them?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the first is try to understand what your shopper wants. Like are they just looking for, do you already have great delivery capabilities and they just need some off site media? I would interested what the shopper wants. I would talk to your vendors about what they've seen work other places. So your top five, 10 CPG vendors love to talk about digital and they all have people on their teams that are digital and so they all want their time, if you will, with the retailer. So I would reach out to a few of them you trust, have some planning sessions, understand what they're seeing out there to inform your strategy. And then lastly I would look for experts in the field and so that's a little bit self serving with us. But if you've never run a retail media organization before as a grocer, it's tough to launch it out and manage it. So whether that's digits, that's somebody else that's hiring, somebody that's been at uh, an Albertsons or whatnot, I mean the talent is starting to get out there now and so I would find some and figure out the right way to help them make you move faster.

Speaker A: Today we have the pleasure of welcoming Molly Jelmi, a trailblazer in the world of retail media and ad sales and with a career spanning various leadership roles across renowned Companies like Dollar General, Kroger Spins and more. So effectively they're taking your audiences then and then buying those through the trade desk across programmatic channels. And which of those channels are uh, performing best for your customers if it's difficult to reach them anyway because they're in rural areas? How are you using programmatic channels in order to create that value for advertisers?

Speaker C: So historically what we found is that mobile display has worked really well for our customers. They may not have a desktop or laptop computer in their homes, but they have mobile phones and that's where they're consuming a lot of their digital content. So that's been something in our own strategy that works really well. Um, the beauty of a self service offering is that we often don't see how those brands come together. Four national plans. The advertiser has the ability to pair the inventory that they believe in with our audiences and test and learn. But what we hear as we are uh, collectively thinking through strategy is that video and CTV are really highly performant and effective for our partners.

Speaker A: Very good. And given the importance of this data driven insights in today's marketing landscape, how do you approach both the targeting bit which we discussed, but how do you personalize that targeting? How are you doing the personalization element?

Speaker C: Sky's the limit for targeting in the world of retail data. So really any discernible purchase behavior, uh, like anything you might find on a receipt and more can be fodder for the creation of a cohort or an audience. And so that's what keeps me interested and excited in this industry is just that ability to identify customers based off of their purchase behavior and then tie them into whatever the objective of the campaign might be. If we have an objective of mitigating leakage, growing market share or growing category share, if we want to help increase trade up, we have the ability to isolate those specific customers and deliver them a message that hopefully increases their consideration of that action. And then we also have the ability to do creative testing within our campaigns to see which resonates more and to optimize into the creative that's working better. And so there's so much promise in retail media for the personalization element here. And we've had great success in being able to optimize to the messaging that resonates best.

Speaker A: Today we have the pleasure of welcoming Luis Pedro Martinez, the head of E Commerce for Essence MediaCom. With over 15 years of experience in the tech and online media industry, Luis is a seasoned leader known for his strategic vision and expertise in driving Growth across key marketplaces like Amazon, Walmart and um, beyond. If I was a brand and I was working with retail, what are the measurement tools that you would recommend to me to be using in order to really see that across funnel?

Speaker D: Um, cloud measurement is important. It doesn't necessarily have to be Amazon marketing cloud, but obviously if you're using Amazon, yes, do we use that? But you know there's other solutions out there. Like Liveramp or Salesforce has some solutions as well. So some way, especially with you know, a cookie less world that's coming in identity, I think that's super important. I think attribution models are interesting. It's complicated though, uh, because everybody has their take on that, but being able to work with a good partner around that is important. But my recommendation is building blocks. It's like you have to have your retail foundations right? By that I mean like if either have in house experts or work with partners that basically understand retail well, that can guide you through sourcing models, the right KPIs for retail sales velocity. Just making sure that your catalog is humming, right? Like you don't have to have everything in every single marketplace, but you need to understand what to have in which marketplace and what to have if you sell directly to consumers. You need to really understand that data, the distribution channels, all of that stuff Last Mile has to be humming before you even think about advertising. Then the advertising piece. I think ROAS is important and obviously you always want to maximize your investment in terms of sales. But it's important also to capture new audiences and to understand how you bring new eyeballs and new people, how you get them passionate about your products. Equally important is to ensure that those people remain loyal, right? So if you're a grocery player, right, work with those guys that have retail media network, they understand their subscription data, uh, their lifetime value data, repeat purchases, that kind of thing. Because all of that feeds back into the brand. And then this idea of enabling a eloquent connected experience for your consumer. So you have to ensure and you have to enforce that no matter what the interaction is between the different channels in omnichannel, that you have the right tools to ensure that the experience is the same to the extent that can be. So if you're looking at an Amazon store that that presence is very similar to your.com in terms of the branding, the messaging, all of that. You don't want to have like a logo here that you know, five years old and a new one here, that kind of thing. But if you think about what I mentioned before connected stores, you know those digital displays that now you have at Tesco's, the QR codes, all of that stuff. Again like just that reinforcement, right? Being able to measure that is super important online and offline. So having the right set of tools is super important. And most importantly, I think because not everybody can build like an army of people to do this, it's work with the right partner that not only provides the tools, but is able to interpret and even apply the changes needed.

Speaker A: Today we're honored to welcome Nielsen hall, uh, expert in the expansive domain of E commerce and retail media, as the present E commerce head of EMEA at IPG Media Brands. Nielsen has solidified his reputation through myriad leadership roles. Tell us a bit about that difference. What is the difference there between the algorithm and that intelligence? If I was a client asking you

Speaker E: so one word AI. We can't ignore the impact performance marketing and what Google's doing with performance max and advertising opportunities that we have available to us. On Meta, which is largely around reach, we had teams that we could look at things like the ad copy positioning, but largely it's a plug and play solution and you enter your keywords, you've got your budgets and it's largely done for you. I think kind of AI is definitely putting a bit more complexity into the marketplace but also a number of opportunities. You know, it's a great level up when it comes to things like kind of content creation, having a certain product image that you could put in multiple different locations on multiple different kind of people. Um, but also the fact that how you use all of this audience data via uh, team rooms is becoming ever more important. So having a better understanding about where your target audience reside. But also if you think you've got not just your advertising or Meta and

Speaker F: Google, but you've got all these different

Speaker E: retailers and all the data is coming back from them in different formats in different forms, often not comparable. It is how you can kind of distill that down and make some use of it via uh, a clean room solution.

Speaker A: So we're going to come back to the data in the clean room thing because it's really exciting. Great to see it from an agency point of view is where those developments are going. But let's go up a level with, to the European thing. So obviously you manage E commerce clients across emea. Which markets are doing well? Where are you seeing people really sort of doing the right things? Which markets at forefront of retail media do you think?

Speaker E: I'm um, always very jealous and envious if I'm honest of, uh, some of our colleagues over in the States where what's happening is brilliant, but I definitely think it's a very simple model compared to what we have over in emea, because you have five or six main players largely, they're pretty mature in the way they're activating kind of retail media. But when you come to emea, we're incredibly fragmented first and foremost. So, uh, we have lots of different E retailers, all at different stages of their maturity, all finding out and understanding how best that they can offer both their customers and potential, essentially brands, an opportunity to, uh, better, kind of have a better relationship, want of a better word. And then I think the markets themselves are at different levels of maturity and the audiences that you have within those markets are also very different. So to get consistency is the biggest challenge that we have as an agency. I think we're making big strides into that via, uh, our kind of unified retail media platform. We're looking about breaking down what the disparaging data sets that we get, putting it into one consolidated format that could be used across multiple different E retailers. I think some of the things that are happening from a, uh, strategic point of view really lend themselves to some of the working groups and the councils that are happening. I think the uk, uh, is largely driving that forward. But then there's some really interesting things going on in the likes of Germany, Spain, France, some of the bigger markets. You have to see what the likes of Carrefour are doing, but I think is very much bit of an arms race at the moment. There's a lot of competition, a lot of negotiations happening when it comes to kind of partnerships between kind of retailers and agencies and also kind of technology providers as well.

Speaker A: Today we're delighted to welcome Greg Deakin, Vice president of Retail Media Groups and Business development at, uh, Snappy Shopper. Greg brings a wealth of experience at the intersection of retail media and quick commerce, having spearheaded innovative strategies that have significantly impacted the retail convenience and hospitality sectors. The transparency builds the trust that you need in order to keep that business growing year on year. When you're talking to your partners, is it generally going brand direct or are you going via the media agencies? Generally, given that you're not the actual retailer, you're more of a conduit. How are you finding that approach to market?

Speaker G: Really great question. We've been doing this now for coming up to a couple of years and everything we've done today is direct. So we've built the relationships with the brands and we've gone in at Various different levels of entry. What we've found is that uh, really we are uh, operating with the trade marketing investments. So given that alternative way of driving product from shed hard wholesale to store, which obviously benefits the brands and then how do we get their products out to consumer delivered which is all picked and packed from the store. And that fundamentally is trading media marketing monies. And that's been direct. What we do recognize in some instances where it depends on the structure of the brands that we can go into a quick commerce, ecom shopper, marketing, brand media, but it's very few and far between. So I think that's still forming within the brand world and that could change then our direction of travel in terms of how we're perceived and how we're seen. I think it goes back to that data. We can do so many different things. It just depends where the budget holders sit within that organization. But what we've done a very conscious job of is actually let's challenge the norm of how we can sell within this space. Let's challenge the norm of how we can sell more product out of the physical box. Even though we're a digital entity that's coming, all the product is coming from that store off the shelf. And I think that gives real opportunity then to the brands who have their convenience grocery channel strategies that's inclusive of wholesale and sort of sells out from stores. And I think we play a really complimentary supporting role in that. Where I do see us moving forward and I do recognize that we perhaps lose a lot of revenue opportunity with the trade desk and others that we've not got that self serve uh, media capability with the agencies. But what we've been very conscious of is to start this and build trust, build equity, build confidence, is basically build it from the ground up. Uh, let's get into the brands, drive that brand message, drive that proposition that we're providing which gives then various stakeholders within that community the confidence and the trust they need. And then we'll start adding layers and I think at the right time then we'll start to explore going beyond that direct approach. But I certainly don't want to lose it because I think it's a much greater way of doing business. It's not a transaction, it's a partnership. You're starting to get into really deep level joint business plans in this sector, in this channel which I think again would always add advantages to our retailers and then on to our consumers. I don't want to be seen as just a transaction by the brands. So there's a balance to be played there, Stuart. I think we're at the moment are doing a good job but of course there are more revenues to be obtained and opportunities to serve our customers in different ways off site or on site. And I think that's interesting for us as we move forward.

Speaker A: I think you've got that right. I think ultimately there is a trade marketing budget there. They want to do stuff that's going to help drive sales and get that awareness of the product up, uh, within that retail environment. And actually there's no route to market really when you've got lots and lots of these smaller convenience stores. So actually you get an aggregator like you come in, it's a great way for them to carve off some budget and say, well let's test this and try this. And this is a good way to get into that sort of grassroots stuff. All the corner shops and the smaller convenience stores, it's low hanging fruit for you and it's actually easier in many ways than going to the media agencies and trying to knock on doors. But that will come as you grow, I guess Exactly.

Speaker G: As we scale up it will start to differentiate somewhat. But I think in the scaling up of what we're offering and then unifying that fragmented universe of different fascia symbol fascia in that convenience channel. Actually for anyone in that channel who's a convenience lead, a uh, retail lead, actually this is a great way for me to test and learn, as you say, a great way to understand my audience better actually. It's really interesting for us talking to a lot of brands around platform elation, who's buying what because actually a lot of convenience is on the go. So it's smaller bottle sizes, like 500 mil bottles, 330 mil cans in store because it's consumed now and people can't typically carry out a lot of product. So they're buying for lunch, they're buying for breakfast, they're buying after school. Whereas in the snappy world we have a slightly different alternative customer, still a convenience customer, mum 30 plus buying under half the family. But what you're seeing is bigger pack formulation. So it's actually complementing some of their strategies from in store and Viral, which is saying, well actually I'm selling more of 1.5 liters, I'm selling more multipacks, bigger, uh, multipacks of Chris. And that's because it's being delivered so it's much more convenient. So when you then start to play that out, and that's why I love the fact that we can then start getting a bit gritty and a bit deeper into those sort of joint business plan discussions around. Well actually what could snappy offer us as alternative to our current strategy but complements it that actually gives us a m much broader reach in our portfolio to drive sales in, sales out and actually for the retailers end dare I say it, some of these things that sit on shelf not gather dust but are slower rate of sale we can help accelerate that and that then supports retailers margin. It supports brands and I think that's a really interesting opportunity for a lot of brand owners out there when they're thinking about the channel. It's not just about consuming now. It can be consumed later. Much more likened to a grocery shop.

Speaker A: Today we're privileged to host Kayla Winstead, winner of the 2022 Next Gen Award and Vice president of Retail media at uh Hy Vee. Kayla is extremely passionate about reimagining the future of food retail in America and her stated goal is to create a healthy and enjoyable work culture for huh her teams and to inspire and serve shoppers and communities. Let's talk about in store piece then. So tell us a bit about what you're offering there and tell us a bit about the innovations in there.

Speaker H: Yeah, in store is such a fun space. So I am an in store shopper but I like to just remind everybody you have to be on the fence here, right? You have to keep a foot in digital and you have to keep a foot uh, in store. My opinion because 80% of all purchases today are digitally influenced. So I may be an in store shopper but I'm going to the again like we talked, I'm looking at the recipes I may be adding to my shopping list, I may be adding to the cart. Right? So there are a bunch of things that I'm m doing online. I'm engaging with influencers through our social sites or off site when I'm checking the news. Then I'll get a hybe ad about new products that are available in my store. So I am a very digitally engaged consumer even though I wouldn't feel fall under an E commerce consumer. Right. So I think there's this balance of both. But to talk about in store I think again I've kind of said it throughout this but it's really about the customer experience. So Hy Vee is extremely focused on customer service and the customer so in store we've had in store audio and knock on wood that I this is does come true because I continue to say it but I think In Store Audio is going to see kind of this resurgence like the QR code. So, so I am really excited to see what brands do with In Store Audio and how we track that distribution as, uh, the data becomes more widely available. So In Store Audio demos and sampling is a really powerful tool that I think some retailers don't consider that part of their retail media network. We do as we just continue to try and marry the merchandising, the marketing and the media together. So that is part of that experience. And then digital screens, of course, is huge for us. So we've made a huge investment on digital screens. A lot of our screens we have around the perimeters of our stores. So where is the consumer? At a point of rest where I can speak to them and educate them on products in my store without disrupting their natural shopping journey. Right. Like, yes, I want to grab their attention, but I don't want them to feel like they're in Las Vegas. Right. We want them to feel like they're hiv and it's a very natural shopping experience. Experience. So. And then point of sale as well. That's something that Hy Vee's held close to our chest. Historically, it's only been utilized for Hy Vee brand marketing. And we are going to open to some of our brand partners to allow them to maybe put a floor decal down or some aisle blades. So a lot of opportunities in store to speak to that consumer closer to the point of purchase.

Speaker A: And how are you delivering into those digital screens at the moment? Is it all done centrally or are you having to do it locally? What's the delivery metric?

Speaker H: Yeah, I'm a little rusty on the back end tech here, but we are partnered with Samsung, um, so that is allowing us some centralization, to my knowledge. And it also allows for program buys, which has been huge for us. Right. So again, centrally located here, but we really own the Midwest. So if brand is looking to do a national campaign and they're not bought in with Trainee, they're really missing a huge chunk of this demographic. So partnering with Samsung and making those screens available programmatically has been really exciting for us. We just kicked that off officially this fall and so excited to really ramp up in that space.

Speaker A: Yeah, really exciting. You got any, uh, tracking on those screens? Have you got anything that allows you to see who's watching and for how long?

Speaker H: We don't today. So this is interesting and definitely coming from a tech background, something that I kind of keep my eye on. There's all sorts of different hardware And I think it comes down to the importance, right? And the prioritization of it. Attribution is certainly important to our brand partners. They want to know which assets did I invest in that actually moved the needle. And so there is this importance of, um, how do I show attribution with the TV screens? And I get that. But I also would say, speaking on behalf of hy vee in my teams, right. I don't think retailers should feel peer pressure to necessarily jump into that capital investment right away because billboards don't have tracking on them. There's all sorts of out of home advertising that works and is tried and true, that doesn't have that attribution attached to it that we're still investing in because, you know, it is moving the needle. We may not be able to put our finger on it, but it's definitely working. And then I think too, there is so much innovation in this space and so seeing different tech providers that have solutions that integrate into existing systems, we have security throughout our stores just to make sure that consumers are safe and to help with shrink. And so how do you tap into some of your existing investments to be able to tie that attribution back?

Speaker A: Today we're excited to welcome Danny Satin, the group head of retail media and digital platforms at uh, Kingfisher PLC. Danny is a seasoned leader with over 14 years of experience driving innovative digital product strategies and e commerce initiatives across renowned organizations like booking.com and ABA English. And then how about the in store piece? Then you talked about trialing that. Tell me how you're trialing that and what's going on there. Because obviously you're very heavily store led and people still like to go into the stores. Tell me about it.

Speaker I: This is probably the most fascinating piece of my work right now because probably you and I, we have the same vision of uh, how our retail media works from a digital perspective. But when you go in store, it's a completely different world. You need to take into account so many variables that, for example, when you build up a platform, you build up your requirements, who is the customer, what will be the journey, how do you the checkout, all that journey. But when you are in store, the variables are another, what's the food traffic? What type of products are we dealing with so you understand how the customer moves around the store or even if you go down to the details of what type of medium you want to place there and how does that play with the type of product that you have? Let's say that you put a screen

Speaker F: at the foyer, uh, of a store.

Speaker I: But you will see people coming in and out. But if you are purchasing, let's say a big massive product, that product can go into the screens.

Speaker F: Right.

Speaker I: So you don't want that to happen, which is something that probably you don't find in groceries retailers because they don't deal with that volume product. So those kind of details are the ones that we're mapping out. We're testing different installed screens but the question is how we measure and how we track performance of those campaigns that we are running as a trial right now. We discuss in our initial conversation eye tracking, camera feeding into the profiling of the customer that we're visiting. But we want to go beyond that. We want to understand how we get the opt in of the customer that it's installed to be tracked because we are over compliant at the same time but then having a much more passive approach of the customer that it's in there. So we know that they are engaging with the campaigns without asking them to do anything. Right. And this is connected to my previous experiences is that uh, how can you utilize apps and our apps so we know our customers, we can know when they are in the store and we can know in which type of location they are in the store and at the same time we know what they purchase. So we will know what type of incrementality are uh, we driving based on the campaigns that we have. And that's kind of like the end game for us when we talk about in store how we connect that to an omnichannel retail media value proposition. That's the basis of data. So again if we go back to that initial point, when I know the availability, I know the stock, I know the selling and sellout data, I will know through which channel I have sold that in bnq for example, that's how we connect the journey of an omni channel retail media network. That's why our obsession is data.

Speaker A: Today we're privileged to host Jovan Wagonaar, the head of retail media, Marc Satin. Jovan is someone who with a proven track record, working internationally, building retail media teams all around the world and kickstarting their fortunes with its hard earned expertise. Yeah. And where are you seeing the fast areas for your retail media business?

Speaker J: Yeah, for us on the one hand of course online business is extremely important here as mediamarket's biggest differentiator is also offline. Our goal is to really make sure that across the full customer funnel we are creating media products. At the moment our most important reto media product is Also producted as it's directly influencing those return on investment from our partners and it's really steering their business in a positive way as well. So that's where a lot of focus is at the moment. But I feel like more towards the future it will be much more full funnel and including our stores alongside with all the e commerce options that we do have.

Speaker A: Yeah, and obviously so you've got that going. So how many campaigns have you got running it any given time at the moment? Have you got serious scale or have you got the challenge of monetizing the long tail?

Speaker J: Yeah, so of course we are tracking every let's say campaign and my best guess would be that on a yearly basis per country we are doing around about 2,000 campaigns. But that being said, not all campaigns are currently including retail media. So approximately at the moment 10% of this amount is ritomalia. But this part is growing heavily. Meaning that, yeah, the part of, let's say a little bit more the traditional marketing topics that we are working with our suppliers with and with our partners that is now being shifted and even added with some of the ritual media options that we do have. So looking into numbers, 11 countries times 2000 campaigns, it's a little bit too much pleasure to do the math, but you get my point.

Speaker A: Yeah. And take some management. I mean that's the beauty of the scaling of revenue. When you can monetize the long tail and you're in multiple markets, the actual replication across other markets in terms of packaging and pricing is relatively simple. So actually the scalability is enormous and that's what you need. Having the platform, the tech.

Speaker J: This is also for us, the core, the reason for us doing RITA Media. It is scalable. It is proving to be quite uh, valuable for our partners. And because it's scalable and trackable, uh, you can monitor it and change it on a daily or even on a minute basis of course. So that's, that's really helping out our partners on the one hand, but that also means that our business becomes a little bit more comfortable. Of course

Speaker A: today we have the pleasure of welcoming Juan Restrepo, the director of digital and retail media services at Bemza, where he leads innovative initiatives for oxo, one of the largest and most recognized small format retail chains in Latin America. What was really interesting was you were saying that you're understanding which sales occur when and then promoting your partners in that time. That's really interesting because a lot of people are doing it. They look at what sales are happening in order to uh, as A measurement metric for when those partners have done their ads rather than letting the tail wag the dog. Tell us about that measurement piece. How are you sort of reporting back to partners now across the board?

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker F: So with this partnership that we have in place with some measurement capabilities around, like how many impressions are the network serving, how those impressions are delivered through the week and what's the actual impact that those impressions are having in sales. Having in mind that we have 33,000 stores, we built an algorithm that allows us to build like these control groups in ah, a pretty, I would say at least a statistic way but it's pretty well done. So we have some capabilities around building those control groups, understanding which stores are pretty similar to which stores and that allows us, as I was telling you, to measure incremental sales per store. We are reporting those sales or those lists back to the advertisers when they are on the SKUs or products that are sold in our stores. And we ran a uh, meta study this year in more than 250 campaigns and we saw that the average lift or incremental sales lift was 8% for those campaigns that we've run. So we've been able to prove that value that these ads are having in sales. And I think we're also pretty aware that we need to be completely transparent on the methodology that we are using. So we're actually sharing with our partners how we are measuring, what's the kind of attribution that we are using and well it's like building trust. Also it's important because as you may be aware in this space, well there are several different partners that are offering like ROI and this kind of roi. But you ask like how are you measuring this roi? It's not that transparent and that clear. So this is one of the core principles that we are building in Retina Media. I'm partnering with every single advertiser actually in order to help us and help them understand better how the consumer behaves but also how these campaigns are working.

Speaker A: Today we have the privilege of welcoming Catalina Salazar, a true influencer, uh, in the realm of retail media and advertising. With an illustrious career spanning a leadership roles at renowned companies such as Dentsu, Aegis Network and Walt. Catalina brings a wealth of experience and expertise to the table. Yeah, I'm going to come back to the macro picture but let's talk about the local, local picture because one of the work we did in this space a few years ago was we looked at it and realized that actually if you live in a certain area. Say you live in a commuter town, suburb town that isn't particularly big and there's a local bakery there. If you're searching for a take a delivery, ultimately the volume of searches for that individual product is always going to be low because the very nature of a delivery app is it's local. And obviously outside of the big cities, the volume of inventory available from an ad point of view was so low. So I'm interested to see how you're overcoming that and then listening to what you were saying around, you're only paying if the basket is actually completed. How do you avoid sort of just running tons of advertising or very little advertising when it comes really local for free or just not monetizing it? Does that make sense?

Speaker K: Yeah, 100%. So we want advertising to be really relevant. We want to enable a partner that might not even have a marketing budget, uh, you know, that might not even know what an impression is, to be able to get visibility. And we want, uh, our users to be able to discover, you know, their offers that they might not traditionally have even looked like. Think about it, if you look at Google, you search for something you're not going to pass, like the first page, you read the top three and then you click and you're out. And what happens with organic algorithms is like obviously the big kind of the ones that are doing the best, they tend to get better ratings, better reviews, better rankings organically. And it means that like smaller partners, probably like new partners or like small size businesses, sometimes they might not even get that visibility. And if you see what we call the city structure, you see that like there's like polygons or areas that are like highly dense with multiple restaurants. Like you have your high street, you see all of the venues in the same kind of areas, right? So what we thought about is a, we want this advertising to help people get discovered easily. We want to make it really relevant to the user. So if they see something, they're going to think, oh, I really like that, uh, that makes sense to my style. I'll give you an example. If I'm a vegan, there's no point for me to take the meat shop in the high street and put it in front of the vegan person. Like, it just doesn't make sense. So what we decided is we want advertising to be really relevant. We want advertising to be fair and like drive business and like drive that re engagement. But you do need to kind of, for you to be able to do this successfully and really stale, you need to ensure that you have some basics cover. So if you're a small shop that you have with pricing, that you have your photographs nicely taken and that those menus are appealing. Because at the end of the day I say that advertising at vaulting in any place really is like getting that prime spot in the shopping center, getting that first place where people walk by and I call the content and the experience, the photos, the price and the reviews, the promotions kind of the uh, how do you attract that person? You get the spot, but you're not going to attract and convert if the content isn't right. So we ensure that we segment our leads for ads on those venues that you know, don't have the visibility but are ready to really convert that traffic. And they have the really good content, they have the really good photos, they have the good ratings, they have, operational metrics are really good. So when someone sees them and they see their photos and the content and the promotions actually come in and convert. So that really helps us deliver revenue for the business but also revenue for the partner and a really great experience for the user because they're discovering new things that actually really good for them and not like a uh, restaurant that perhaps hasn't done the job of getting up to speed with the right experience. So kind of be like taking the time to understand what makes that journey work and going after the partners that will make that effort to clean up themselves and scrub uh, up nicely for the users. We're going to bring them and convert them through the content. So we usually like tell the partner it's good that you have first time users promotions. It's good that you have Vault plus which is our membership audience promotions because those are our most loyal users, uh, like four times better users than traditional users. So get uh, promotions for them, organize your shop, we help you, we even give them photo shoots to help them set up. So it is not easy. We do have to strike a really good balance between getting someone a lot of visibility for free, but we need to ensure that that person converts. So we're working on getting that balance even better because sadly like we're only starting and there's a lot of things we still need to do to get that better. But so far it's worked really well.

Speaker A: The Retail Media Moguls podcast is brought to you by Platform195. To learn more about Platform195 and how to connect retail media with intelligent marketing to accelerate growth, visit platform195.com and then make sure to search for retail media moguls in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Make sure to click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. And on behalf of the team here at platform 195, thanks for listening.