Real Job Talk · 2025-01-07 · 17 min
This episode concludes the employee experience series by shifting focus from onboarding and development to offboarding - how companies and teams should manage the departure of employees, especially top performers. Kat and Liz emphasize that an employee's exit is not just a loss but an opportunity for learning, relationship maintenance, and brand building. Managers should approach departure conversations with curiosity rather than defensiveness, asking departing employees why they're leaving to uncover insights about retention and team dynamics. The discussion covers critical practical elements: understanding how the employee wants their transition to happen, collaborating on handoff plans, carefully messaging the departure to the broader team, clarifying benefits and final paycheck details, and conducting exit interviews to identify organizational issues. The hosts stress that every team member - not just managers - plays a role in creating a positive offboarding experience. They encourage celebrating the departing employee's next opportunity, maintaining relationships, and treating voluntary and involuntary leavers with equal dignity. The overarching theme is that how companies say goodbye directly impacts future hiring ("bounce backs"), employer reputation, and whether departing employees become advocates or critics of the organization.
Have a private conversation with pure curiosity to understand why they're leaving, regulate your emotions beforehand if needed, and approach it with empathy rather than defensiveness. Ask them how they'd like to transition and collaborate on a handoff plan, leveraging their knowledge of team dynamics and project dependencies.
Work with the departing employee beforehand to agree on messaging that respects their privacy while providing necessary context to the team. Be consistent, neutral, and timely, and consider asking the team if they know candidates for replacement or if there's an opportunity to promote someone.
Celebrate their next opportunity rather than making them feel guilty, avoid laying your sadness on them, tell them what you appreciated about working together, and offer to stay in touch or help with the transition. This creates a positive final impression and keeps them in your professional network.
Exit interviews reveal systemic issues like unclear mission, team conflict, or poor management that cause turnover. Addressing these problems for remaining employees can significantly reduce future attrition and improve overall team functioning.
Employees who experience a positive offboarding become "bounce backs" who may return as rehires, and they share their experiences in their professional networks and on platforms like Glassdoor, influencing the company's reputation and ability to attract talent.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Our final episode in our series on employee experience is about helping people who are leaving the company have a positive experience as they move on. Helping someone leave gracefully, providing a great last few days, and transitioning their work smoothly does just that. (If you’re the person leaving, listen to RJT Episode 55: The Art of Quitting ) When someone gives notice unexpectedly, what do you do? First, talk with them and understand their why. This is an opportunity for learning- could you have prevented it? What you learn could help you in retaining the rest of your people and recruiting new ones. Come in with curiosity, remorse, and ZERO defensiveness. This is a time to learn, and you need to calmly be wishing the person well. As the person leaving, you want to be consistent in your why- you’re going to be asked why you’re leaving by your manager, HR, upper management, and peers- have your story consistent so that others aren’t caught flat-footed when learning about your reason for leaving. If the person talks about things you could have prevented (for example, they were bored or felt stunted), sincerely apologize.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Foreign m.
Speaker B: Welcome to Real Job Talk, the podcast with practical advice for mid career professionals. I'm Kat.
Speaker A: And I'm Liz. And this is our last episode of our employee Experience series. We hope you've enjoyed and learned from this series and that it's helped you understand that it's everyone on the team's responsibility to bring people onto the team, to welcome them, to build them in an individualized way. And now we're going to talk about how to let them move on. So today is all about leaving the company.
Speaker B: And, uh, you may remember from our 55th episode, the Art of Quitting. When you leave a job, you want to go out classy with your head held high, your work transitioned, and a good feeling about the chapter closing before quitting a job. We recommend giving that episode, episode 55, A. Uh, listen.
Speaker A: Yep. But in this episode, we're talking about the company and the team's role in providing a good employee experience for the person moving on. Because while this could be a sad news for the team, it's an opportunity for learning and branding and relationship building that can benefit everybody moving forward.
Speaker B: Someone on your team, specifically a top performer, gives notice unexpectedly. Besides shouting a profanity behind closed doors, what do you do? So, number one, have a conversation and ask to talk to them so that you can understand why they're leaving.
Speaker A: And this is specifically for managers, right, Kat, like you, I'm the manager. You quit. I. I really want to understand why. And I would say understand why, not in a it's not my fault kind of way, but like, hey, you're quitting. This stinks. But hindsight, you know, help me understand how I could have prevented this or if there's anything I could have done to prevent this. So pure curiosity.
Speaker B: So many people, they'll leave a job and quit for growth or because they're worried about the future of the company. I mean, it could be a number of reasons, but getting this information, finding out why your top performer is leaving can be critical for managing and retaining people and recruiting new ones. So this is different than an exit interview that's done via survey or a conversation with the HR person. This is a conversation between manager and employee. And hopefully you as a manager have strong rapport and can really have a productive conversation.
Speaker A: Uh, absolutely. And I would say for the person quitting, you want to be consistent what you tell your manager, what you tell your team, and what you tell hr. So those are all important conversations with a different bent. But especially if you are a top performer, your manager or team lead you're going to be held accountable for why did so and so leave. So you want to be able to come with a really clear. They found a job that was five minutes from their house. You know, it wasn't about money, it was about the fact that they were commuting 45 minutes each way. So but as a manager, if you come in defensive to that conversation, you're not going to get anything. So you want to come in with pure curiosity and, you know, remorse. Oh, uh, I wish this wasn't happening. Help me understand how this could have changed. There are times where you could have done something different and there's just times where it's something like the 5 minute, over 45 minute commute and, and anything, uh, that you do in that meeting, you are wishing the person the best going forward.
Speaker B: Absolutely. And if you are not in a position to be able to calmly, coolly and collectively be able to do that, you don't have that conversation until you can be. So that's when you go, that's when you go for a walk. That's when you go and regulate your emotions so that you can show up present and supportive in the conversation. Because you're trying to get information that is going to help you retain your team.
Speaker A: Absolutely. And you're making that person feel heard. And maybe before you didn't make them feel heard, but now you are, and you're doing it with an honest, open, caring approach. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were totally bored and looking for something new. That's on me. And I'm so sorry to be losing you on my team. And I'm going to be a better manager for the folks left behind. That's a piece of it. That's like branding. Right. You're, you want to plant the seed to them of like, I'm going to be better for the folks left behind because hopefully the person who quit will spread that word. Oh, I told, I told them I had been bored and telling them I was bored for six months and they didn't see it and they didn't listen. If they don't listen to you, then they're just a bad listener. Right. So it's a real learning. You're going to be better as a manager, the more transparent that conversation is.
Speaker B: Mm.
Speaker A: So second thing, in that meeting or in a subsequent meeting, however it works, you wanna talk to the person about how they'd like to transition. When someone's quitting, they've thought about what it looks like, what their last two Weeks or whatever notice they're giving is going to look. So if I'm the manager and I'm saying to you, Kathleen, next two weeks are gonna be this, this, and this. Like, whoa, Nellie. This person knows exactly where they are on different projects, what's on their plate. Ask them how they'd like to transition. You're going to learn so much from that conversation. You can say something like, would you like a happy hour? You know, on your last day, would you like a lunch? Some people, that's their nightmare. That is my nightmare, personally. A last day lunch in my honor is my nightmare. Um, but for someone else, it's a really nice moment to be able to say goodbye.
Speaker B: So knowing whether your person wants to go out with a party or wants to just kind of go out quietly is important because you want, you know, it still is employee experience.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And give them the experience they want on their way out.
Speaker A: Right. But asking how they'd like to transition gives them ownership of their last few days, which is going to actually empower them and make them feel better than being told what to do.
Speaker B: And really, really pick their brain when it comes to this transition. You know, ask them who they think would be best to take on their responsibilities and then work together with them to form a transition plan that's going to work for the whole company.
Speaker A: Yes. Because you may not know that they secretly work with Jane on a bunch of stuff. And Jane is actually the perfect person to take on this project and go, oh, Jane, cool. Like. And, uh, Jane has capacity. Perfect. So that they may know the ins and outs pieces of your team even better than you do. So they're going to have an idea and maybe you'll hear of someone that is performing in a way you didn't know. Or maybe if they're like, oh, no, I would not give it to Jim. Well, Jim's your go to. Why wouldn't you get. Uh, just out of curiosity, why do you think it should go to Jane instead of Jim? Oh, Jim never, you know, Jim never comes through or whatever really, you know, come at that conversation from what's best for the business and then ask them what they've already thought of and then you can have clarified questions. Oh, well, what about this meeting that you run once a month or what? You know, I think the keyword you said there, Kat was together.
Speaker B: And then I also think once that's done, it's also very important. Once you have that conversation, it's very important how you communicate this to the rest of the team as well.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So do your best to honor the way that the person wants it done, but you also may need to give more context and also talk about how the transition will look and how things will be moving forward. And you know, if you're, if you're going to be recruiting a replacement, ask for help from the team.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: Amen.
Speaker A: Uh, or even them. Do you know anyone who you think could be good would be a good replacement? Maybe it's an opportunity to promote someone or something like that. But you said a word there, Kat, that I want to, I want to double down on. And the word is messaging. People quit for so many different reasons and where you want to be before it's announced to the broader team. And frankly, maybe people, uh, on that broader team already know. So you need to kind of understand who knows, who doesn't. And messaging has to happen really quickly because it gets out, right?
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: But it has to be consistent. If I'm leaving for a personal reason that I really don't want to share, my manager and I can work together on the company messaging. Okay. This is really because maybe I have an illness or something. I don't need to, I don't need to share that. But we can say, oh, yeah, uh, she's just taking time off with the kids and that's the thing that she's doing. So you want to make sure the messaging is consistent, doesn't raise flags, is just as neutral as possible. But like, you have to respect the person's privacy in a lot of cases and work with them on the united front. I think if there's one thing that we can do, whether it's about the transition, whether it's about, uh, messaging, it's a united front situation here as much as possible because that will make the employee's experience much more comfortable if things are done in a way that they are comfortable with.
Speaker B: For our managers and HR friends, that transition period is crucial.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: So please be clear on any things that need to be turned in. Make sure that the employee understands what happens with their benefits, final paychecks, and help the person understand what happens on their last day. Do an exit interview and then see if there is a personal or more team organizational issue that you can address.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: One, One of the best ways to reduce turnover is to learn from your people who are leaving and prevent these issues from happening. So it's an opportunity to.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: Make things function better on your team and be open to any feedback you receive here.
Speaker A: Right. And I think at the end of it all Right. Employee experience is about reducing attrition.
Speaker B: Uh-huh.
Speaker A: So this person's leaving, the attrition happened. But what can you do to prevent it? If you find out the team is squabbling, or you find out their mission's unclear, or you find out that a manager, uh, and now I'm talking to an HR person. You find out the manager is nasty, what are you going to do? Because if a manager is nasty, there are going to be people walking out the door. So it's time for coaching, it's time for training, or it's time for a new manager. But we learn so much from our levers. And sometimes a lever is just a lever because back to the person with a five minute commute, there's nothing there. But sometimes there's nothing there like It's Captain Obvious, five minutes over 45. But they took the first call because why? So this is a fact finding mission that can only make employee experience better for the people who stay. So don't, don't, um, don't miss out on this opportunity to learn.
Speaker B: And our advice for team members. Gosh, we all know it's hard to lose someone you like. This is where you lean into the fact that they are moving towards something that works better for them. Y. Maybe it's a better commute, maybe it's more money. Maybe it's a growth opportunity or a chance to work with a mentor. This is not the time to take the leave personally or to lay on a guilt trip. This is the time to be happy for someone and to celebrate the milestone for them and to offer how to help them in the transition. If you want to really support someone, offer to assist. Yes.
Speaker A: And I would say with that, like, if you are super bummed, keep that away from them. You can be bummed. We're all bummed to lose someone good. But keep that away from them. You want your last days together to be positive and about moving forward and supportive and happy for them. If someone quits a job and is moving on, they're probably happy about it. So be happy for them. Maybe they weren't performing or maybe they missed doing what they used to do or who knows? But this is about not focusing on,
Speaker B: I lost my buddy or I lost,
Speaker A: you know, my colleague, but wow, this person I like and care about, or maybe this person I don't really know or whomever is excited and I'm gonna just send positive vibes their way. That said, with more positive vibes, if you like them, tell them this is a time to kind of load it up like, hey Kat, I really just love working with you. You're such a reliable colleague and I just think you're fantastic. Celebrate your time together because it's coming to an end. So this is all ah, the last two weeks of somebody's time in a company is all about closure. And you can tell them, you assume, um, you can ask them to keep in touch and you can say you'll miss someone, ask them to keep in touch and definitely make sure be like, hey, can I call you if I have a question about xyz? But you can say to someone, our relationship doesn't have to end here and make a plan like, hey, in two weeks let's go out to lunch or something like that. Or have a virtual coffee. You can make yourself make your loving of that person clear and make plans for the future even though you won't be working together.
Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Mhm. One of the best sources of hires is bounce backs like people who end up coming back. So those final two weeks give a lasting impression on a person that could be brought back in the future. So if your company has an alumni network, point the person there, offer yourself as a resource and a reference and offer to check in a couple times a year. Keep this person in your network. You never know when you're going to cross paths again.
Speaker A: Absolutely. And like the bounce back thing, from a company perspective, every person is in charge of employee experience. So as we march this person out the door in the way that is comfortable for them and treat them with dignity and respect no matter how they're leaving, you know, we didn't even go. We were talking mostly about people who are leaving. Volunteers voluntarily. Involuntary leavers need to be treated with the same dignity and respect and gratitude and hey, I liked working with you and let me help you and all of those things to make them understand as much as possible and feel supported out the door. Because you never know when you'll cross paths again. You never know who's posting on Glassdoor. You never know who is talking about your company. We've said on this podcast before, the negative stories are great cocktail party conversations. The positive ones are too. So you want to be just putting positive experiences, even positive experience in a negative time out into that universe and every single person is a part of that. Someone gets let go sending them a note that says, hey, I'm really sorry this happened to you. I've really enjoyed working with you and I will be a reference. I will do a LinkedIn, uh, recommendation. Any of the things that goes miles. And you know what? Your company opens a job that is a good fit. This person's going, God, yeah, I miss working there.
Speaker B: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Speaker A: Bounce back. Great employee.
Speaker B: And there you have it. So we hope that this series was informative and we look forward to launching a series on leadership in early 2025.
Speaker A: Until next time, this is Real Job Talk, the podcast with practical advice for mid career professionals.
Speaker B: Our website with all Real Job Talk related information is realjobtalk.com we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker A: Um, please send us your questions, topics you'd like to talk about and Real Job Talk stories and you may find them featured on a future episode. Use the website or email us@realjobtalkmail.com youm
Speaker B: can follow us on Twitter ealjobtalk and
Speaker A: on, um, Facebook and Instagram eeljobtalkshow.
Speaker B: My name is Kathleen Nilsen Troyer. You can find me on Twitter ailycat and on LinkedIn. I'm Kathleen Nelson Droyer.
Speaker A: And I'm M. Liz Bronson. On Twitter, I'm Lizbeconsult and on LinkedIn, I'm Liz Bronson.
Speaker B: Real Job Talk is produced by John Mark Troyer. Our graphic artists are Lexi and Zachary Bronson. And thanks for joining us. Until next time,
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