S2E8: Why the Best Teams Feel a Little Bit Like a Cult

Speaker A: Welcome to People on Purpose, where each episode we explore how founders can navigate building businesses where people and profits can coexist on purpose. I am so excited for this episode. I have been thinking about this concept pretty much for the last couple years. I've developed like a whole framework around it. It's going to be like the basis for my signature talk for doing guest expert stuff and speaking in conferences and summ. I'm just like, so excited. So, um, I guess speaking to founders to founders, I think that we all have these types of topics that just like really scratch our brain and like get us going and concepts that we're thinking about and developing. And so if this is your first time listening to People on purpose, um, just know that there is a really solid basis for my opinions on this. And I also want to just point out that this topic, the title, you know, basically talking about creating a cult like community at all, can probably be taken a little out of context and potentially even having a bit of a controversial perspective, um, based on the fact that cults are very harmful and they're actually horrible. And I just want to kind of point out at first and do a little bit of a disclaimer that I don't actually mean a cult where people like leave their families and give you all their money and all of that stuff. It's just the kind. The way that I wanted to talk about this topic feels so close to how cult members are inspired by the mission around whatever their thing is that they're going to join. It could be psychologically a little bit more than what we're talking about here today. But I think that. Just don't be fooled by the title. Don't think that I'm taking like the seriousness of that topic totally out of context and trying to water it down or act like people who have experience in these situations are. Um. I'm not joking about it or anything, but realistically, to sum it up, there are so many different ways to relate company culture and experience and the people and culture of companies, especially small businesses, to things that we see in the world. And a lot of those things, those topics, those conversations, those parallels can kind of be seen as toxic. I try. Another example is I try really hard not to relate hiring to dating because those are like, really, really different things. And I think that could be a very toxic way to allow any type of, like those emotions and feelings that are complicated with dating to also intermix on accident with thinking about hiring. So. So at a very high level, there are some analogies and examples that come together there. But that's another thing that I'm relating to this in a way that it's really just helping to be a jumping off point for a thoughtful discussion around buy in for a thoughtful discussion around cultural implications of creating spaces where people can succeed. And also about communication, both directly, indirectly, subliminally, that lead to behaviors, and at the end of the day, being a people and culture expert, advising founders every single day on how they're functioning, um, within their culture and their team, helping leaders to get better at their jobs. It all comes down to buy in. It all comes down to buy in for their role for the company they work for, the people they work for, their internal mission, what's keeping them showing up every single day. And we as founders actually have a lot of that we can add to the table when we have people that are in need of a structure, a design, a mission, a purpose. Not everybody can feel fulfilled simply by doing the work that they do. Oftentimes they need it to have a bigger connection, a why behind the what. So when we're talking through this topic, I just wanted to kind of present that caveat that this is not meant to be super controversial. And I also just want to say I love cults. I'm a little bit obsessed with cults. Recently, my mom's boyfriend told me that my mom almost joined a cult when she was a teenager, um, because he was her first husband. So they were together when they were teenagers. And then now, obviously, she's much older and they got back together. And so then I got to hear all this juicy stuff about her. Regardless, super happy she didn't end up in that cult. Probably wouldn't be here today, um, yapping at you about colts if she did join a cult, which is ironic, but also at the same time, just trying to prove to you guys that I don't think we should have cults. Because if, uh, my mom joined a cult, I wouldn't be here. So everything's about me. Anyways, so in regards to this topic, in regards to this conversation, I do want to make sure that I created a little bit of space to keep it lighthearted, but also to acknowledge that I don't mean actual cults. So don't take this as a, you know, free pass to use psychological warfare on employees so that they stay with your company forever. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I think that what we want to do is create spaces where people can be successful. And when we do that, and we create spaces for fulfillment, the Right people in the right seats. We're constantly evolving, addressing needs, adjusting them, caring for people from like the inside out. Uh, we are going to be able to see a lot of success and it's just going to be a self fulfilling prophecy, creating more and more buy in over time. And I just hate the term buy in because I feel like it's so like technical and it's so like, I don't know, it just feels like a direct exchange for time and money is just like so capitalistic and yes, at the core of everything we're doing. You know, I have a podcast about work, so clearly capitalism is a player. But at the end of the day, I think that if we just look at relationships as a time money exchange, that can be of significant value for making decisions, but it also, if it carries too much weight, then it will deplete any type of meaning that you could have the opportunity to create and leverage as you're growing your business to have your, your own role, your own fulfillment in your company be acknowledged and valued in a way that potentially you may not have experienced if you were primarily focused always on the bottom line. So when I bring this to your attention, I want to talk a little bit about how creating a cult like community within your team can be approached in a few different ways. And I think that there is no better way to tell how I feel about this than to talk about how I messed it up. And I'm currently messing it up. So, um, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while or if you've been around my newsletter, things like that, you probably noticed and I've acknowledged that there's been a big shift in the way that I've been showing up. There's been a lot of stuff that's happened in my personal life that has deeply impacted the way that I am showing up here today. There's been a lot of things that have contributed to a massive season of growth for myself over the past year in particular. And there's been a lot of really painful realizations and quite frankly a lot of struggle that has come along with that. And I've had a couple of experiences over the past year that were extremely disappointing, um, when it had to do with my own team. And if I were to stand here on my soapbox each week and tell you that I know everything and I'm perfect and you have to listen to all my advice, first of all, I think you wouldn't believe me. But second of all, I kind of feel like showing up authentically is really the only way to go. So even if it makes me maybe depletes my, I don't know, authority a little bit in this space, um, I guess you can turn this podcast off now. This is not a personal therapy session for me. I just wanted to set a foundation for how we got here so I can tell you how I've messed up so that you don't feel so alone and then you can go on the journey with me to solve this problem. But basically, in the last year I scaled back my business significantly. I focused primarily on our retainer clients and a handful of new clients coming in over the past, especially six months was very discerning about the types of companies that we're working for. At the same time we were relaunching people on purpose as well as a second vertical in the business that has a little bit more to do with the work that I do with founders in regards to advisory on their people and culture on a day to day basis. So while we still have our functionality of our of Paradigm's main services and business model, which is also infused into our founder relationships on the other vertical, we definitely have scaled back. And over that time I have scaled back my team. So at, ah, this time last year I think I had six people on my team and now we have just hired a fourth person and we have a fifth person in the wings. So it took about a year to get here, but we're at the place now where there's a lot of clarity and understanding across the board. One thing that happened last year was really hurtful to me and it kind of scarred me a little bit when it comes to team stuff. And I had to learn that hard lesson that there are no exceptions to the rule. At the end of the day, we can only do our best for our people and it's their responsibility to do what's best for them. And most of the time when it comes to work and the power dynamic of somebody paying somebody else, people are going to make the best decision for their own bank account and their own lives. And even if that is not at the most appropriate time, or they're not handling it in a way that is very ethical, or even you find out things later that were adding to the hurt there, it can be a really disarming and uncomfortable experience to find out that a team member has been taking advantage of you, your time, your trust, your resources, your care, honestly, your love, your attention. And I know that for me it stung a little extra because it's not supposed to happen to me. I'm supposed to be the one that has all the good stuff going on, and I'm supposed to be the one that can tell you about how to make your team function correctly. So not only was it a personal blow on top of a major psychological and emotional trauma that I was dealing with, but it was also a. An ego blow. It was an ego blow for me to have a team member show up in such a way that I'd never expected. And also, I tend to put a lot of trust in people, and maybe I should have been a little bit more cautious about that in this case. I have a lot of regrets around a lot of things, but one thing I can say is that I will never regret what the way that I showed up in that relationship. And that's really the only way that I can move forward. And I say that all because many of you listening have little teams, and you care a lot about the people that are under you. So when they do you wrong or, you know, try to poach your clients, or, you know, you find out stuff that they said about you after the fact, and then, you know, maybe you have an added layer of, I was already in hell, and then this is the way that you acted, um, that can be, like, super painful. It feels like losing a real friendship, a real relationship. And it is a lesson that we all have to learn. And I will. I would be lying if I said that it hasn't impacted my decisions moving forward in regards to the scalability of my company. It actually made such a big difference that I have probably taken an extra few months to get things back going in the direction that we were before. On the scalability side, the revenue side, the clients that we're letting in, the opportunities that I've been pursuing for my business, because I am a little gun shy around allowing someone else into the sacred space. And when I say that, I don't mean that literally like a sacred space. I just mean that I have such an incredibly dedicated team that actually cares about each other, and it cares. They care about the work that we do, and they know that I care deeply about them, and I'm very lucky to have that. And in a small team environment, I believe that that is what is going to make you successful. I could do 15 different podcast episodes about how my team carried me through the last year, most of them. And I could do 15 more about the damage that one person's actions did on my psyche, and I just don't think it's helpful. But what all of that Tells me is that when you are prioritizing the community of your team, you're putting yourself out there in a way that is very vulnerable. Can be really scary. I know all of us care deeply about our business, but nine times out of 10, I care more about my team than I care about my business. I actually think that sometimes in the last year when I've thought I just need to shut all this down for a while, the thing that kept me going was my care and attention for their team, for my team, and not in a way that they need this money, so I better keep going. Not. Not saying that. I mean, I actually get so fulfilled by the relationships and experiences that I share with them through the running of this business. And I don't mean to be like, mushy about it or whatever, but we do have to harden up emotionally and take some risks sometimes because we. That's the only way to grow your business is to be vulnerable and let other people in and to see, like, the messy side of your closet. And I think that when it comes down to strategy, there is so many things we can do to create amazing experiences. The thing that I messed up is that over the last couple months, it has become very clear that we are understaffed. Once we decided to start growing again, things hit, you know, the ground running. Many of you became clients, probably. Um, with all that said, I want. One of my main priorities is to make sure that my team always feels supported. So I was in a position to need to hire for a new position, but I haven't hired since I got kind of burned by this last employee. Emotionally and realistically, I was afraid. I was afraid to go out and bring somebody else into the fold. I have, I'm a very sensitive person. Um, I have a lot of baggage that I'm bringing into this business this year that I didn't have pre2025. There's been a whole journey on building my own confidence for my personal life. And I'll do another episode on that one day. But basically I just was nervous about bringing somebody else in. So when it came down to me having to make a decision about moving forward with either continuing to create this podcast, create our newsletter, do all the things that I need that type of support, as well as serving our clients effectively, only one thing could really keep going in that way and without additional support. Second to that, I know that one of my team members is deeply fulfilled by one part of her job, but not another. So being able to create, uh, to be a real leader, step into that and create a space where they can continue to excel in the part of their job that they really love would require me to have somebody else come on board to take the things that they no longer feel connected to. All of this is to say that a highly functioning team is always when people are fulfilled by their work. So if nothing else was motivating me, it was just that I want to make sure that I have team members that are motivated and fulfilled by the work that they're doing. And that is essentially what helped me to make this decision of hiring somebody that I've known for many, many years. They used to be a client and now in a position be able to take on some work outside of their own business. And I, uh, feel like there was a moment where I was like, you know what? I feel like my capacity for leadership is best served if I'm bringing someone in that I know cares so deeply about me and my business already. That's not a benefit that we get from employees that we find on LinkedIn or indeed I. I was able to take this leap because the number one thing is I need someone to actually care about the work that we're doing and the people that they're going to be surrounded by. And that needed to be my foray back into this scalability. So for me, it just kind of continues to highlight this theory that creating a cult like community within your team is really based on a couple of foundational principles having to do with caring about each other, caring about each other's success, and wanting to create spaces where people can live lives that they feel really proud of. And I think that by hiring someone that I knew cared about me, made me feel safe and secure, and is helping to bridge the gap to take to making more risks when it comes to scaling my business back up. Because I promise you, and you can write this down, in six months, it's going to be like I never left. So just putting that out in the universe, it's going to be better than it ever was. I've grown so much in the last year and my team is so incredible. And I just know that in my gut it was the right decision to maybe not follow some of my advice and bring somebody in that is a friend and to prioritize. Now, granted, this person has an incredible skill set, but I can find people that could do this job. I could find them probably for cheaper with less experience. But what I really value right now is the relationship and the foundational elements of the culture of my company. And so in that process, bringing someone in maybe a little bit sooner than I was ready because I'm prioritizing the fulfillment of my own team and also wanting to make sure that we are moving in the right direction. I wanted to challenge myself a little bit and get myself out of the fear mindset that I've been experiencing. And all of that is to say that I have absolutely, completely fucked up the onboarding in a major way. So if you just started listening last week and we talked about onboarding and I lectured you for 30 minutes, um, I realize this might erode your perception. Um, but I also really feel like it's important for you all to understand that we're not always going to do everything perfectly. And sometimes we just have to make values based decisions to decide what's really important to us and our priorities in that moment. And right now, my company culture and the interactions that my team has with each other is number one on the top of my list. So I made a hiring decision that I'm incredibly grateful for this person to come onto my team, but I made it not only based on their skill set, but also based on the fact that I know that they care about the work that we're doing and they understand it deeply. As a client, they benefited from it. They're probably one of our biggest mouthpieces out there in the world and now they get to work here with us and make an impact within the business that helps us get our messaging out further and further. So there are lots of ways that you can create a cult like community within your business. And it doesn't mean hiring your friend. In my case, that was kind of how I started. But realistically, the op, uh, the episode that we're talking about today is that you can create this cult like community even if you just met this person on LinkedIn. But you have to be just as clear and straightforward as if you are bringing somebody in that has five years of experience working alongside you, co working with you, hiring you, using your materials, um, writing case studies for you. Like there is such a deep well of history there that it is hard to bottle and say, to put into your onboarding process. But I'm here to tell you that that is the challenge that you are trying to meet. You are trying to create a historically significant pathway for, or pathway, uh, of understanding of the mission behind your business, what you're actually doing, how you work, who you are, how your people work, how you care for each other, how you communicate, how you lean on each other. People should be able to pick up on that during their onboarding process. And realistically that is what is going to create a cult like community on your team. By defining that we are a community and second to that, showing how we show up for each other. Even more so than how you show up in your tasks on the day to day basis, how do you behave with each other, how do you weave our cultural expectations into onboarding? And the way that we do that is by giving people the language, the understanding, the expectations, the authenticity, the vulnerability and also the reliability. The foundational elements of having a job. You want people to get their paychecks, you want them to know where to, how they're going to get paid. You want to respect that you owe them nothing except for the paycheck that they earned and they owe you nothing except for the work that they promised. And that there are mechanisms on both sides to ensure that you're both keeping your end of the bargain. On top of that, if we just look at this transactional relationship like that, we are not going to be creating a culture. We have to have that be uh, something that this is not a guarantee. The relationship that you have with my company, that you are, the role that you're playing within the community element of this company is going to directly impact your success. And so if you are weaving in that priority into onboarding, then you are helping people understand how you want their role to play within the company. Engagement is key and we have to earn it as founders. But engagement is also simple. It is about creating opportunities for work that really matters and it's about creating open communication so that people feel connected to the mission and the work that you're doing, the people that they're working with and the, the actual connection to the mission of the business. So if there's ever a uh, time in your life where you feel like someone's disengaged, they're just not really that into it. They don't participate that much. They are not very respons. You feel like there's sometimes they're taking advantage. You're probably right. And it's okay because not every cult is for every person. So realistically, at the end of the day, what I would love for you to be able to do is to say this. My team is fully engaged. They care about what we're doing here. They excel at their job. I'm here for them. I'm here to help develop and train them, bring them resources, make them as successful as possible. My goal is to earn their respect and their trust every single day. And their goal is to show up in full, full commitment to the mission when they are being paid by my company. And sometimes that commitment can look like doing killer work, and sometimes it can look like engaging with your fellow employees or participating in activities. It doesn't always have to be something that you're totally spelling out. But why don't we start by giving them the resources that, that they need to feel connected to the work that they're doing. There's almost no situation in which you can find yourself in a position where you have an employee that is responsive, that cares about your company, that has authentic relationships with the people around them, whether they're clients or fellow co workers, and have them not be successful. And you'll notice that not one of those things was about how good they are at creating Canva graphics or whatever. It was not about their skill set at all. The skill set that they are bringing to the table is what got them hired. Those other pieces are the part that's going to make your company actually worth working for and your people actually want to show up. And I'm not saying that this works all the time, but the reason that I know that my new hire is going to be successful is not because of her skills, although those are incredible. It's because she fucking cares. This person cares about the work that we're doing. She's engaged, she's responsive, she has great ideas. She can meet me where I'm at. She does act like, actually care about the way that other people feel working with them. And you can't teach that and you can't always test it, but what you can do is you can model it. So by showing up as the person that you want your employees to be, the engaged, communicative, um, invested person that you want your employees to be, and setting that as the standard for how people behave is how you give your company the cultural edge that will keep your talent involved with your company for the long haul. So while I am here to admit I've done nothing right, I have not done an orientation. I have barely got them set up on payroll correctly. I have assigned them tasks in the most hectic and chaotic possible way. Um, and basically just sent them a zoom link and said, come to our team meeting. Thank you for being here. Haven't sent an official offer letter. I did create a job description that they were totally on board with. They had a couple of introductory calls with our team to make sure things got passed off. And I also wanted them to feel connected. The number one thing that I had this person do is just make sure that they could be there to connect and engaged with the other people on the team. Whether it was me or my other team members that are passing work off. Because my team is engaged and fulfilled and excited about the work that they're doing, they're able to fill in all those gaps. Founders are spending so much time creating to do lists and training schedules and blah, blah, blah, but they're not taking any time to allow for white space for people to connect with the other people they're working with, connect with the work that they're doing and be able to bring you questions and ask them in a way that feels fulfilling, direct, and also really kind of cult like. Because at the end of the day, the things that they're going to bring you are going to be ways that they are adding to the fabric of your culture. And so the next employee that we're bringing in is probably going to get a perfectly tailored onboarding experience and a great, perfectly written out job description, a specific offer letter. And while I am so excited about the idea that we're scaling Paradigm back up again, there M is also a always a little bit of a fear when you're bringing somebody into your vulnerable space. So to me, it was really important to have another element of a person that is coming in to protect the community that we've already built on our small team so that when we are bringing in future people, I have the strongest building blocks of the fabric and foundation of our culture. Our cult like community is present everywhere. I am so confident that my new hire is going to get a great onboarding experience in all the ways that I can control, but also in all the ways that I can't because my team is going to be able to fill in the gaps. The hiring process of finding the next individual has also helped to create a space where I know there's going to be a lot of success, there's a lot of skill, all of that stuff. But the reality is you never know how somebody's going to work out until they start. So by creating a standard onboarding process that's going to help them bring, be felt and brought into the fold is just the first step. After that, you have to make sure and take it one step further and ensure that in practice you are showing up and modeling the behavior that you want to see with the rest of your team. That is all to say that not every company is going to require social elements, engagement, care for each other, things like that. That's for your culture to Define. But what is important is that you know what you expect from your team, what you hope for from your team, and you model it in the best way that you can. Because I really do believe that true care and conviction for the people that work for you will go a thousand times better. Further, coupled with the materials that we create to ensure it's compliant, direct, straightforward, the onboarding is good, people know what to expect, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's nothing without that element of the connection, the engagement, the care, all of that is going to be absolutely integral into making sure that your team member is successful. All I'm trying to say is that you can mess up the onboarding process with your employees coming in on the offer letter. Maybe their job description wasn't totally complete, didn't complete a training manual, you haven't reassigned all the tasks and ClickUp. Whatever the case may, may be, you can mess that up pretty far. But if you do embrace the opportunity to create a real, authentic, caring, fulfilling connection where you show up as their leader, you model the behaviors that you want to see and you ensure that there is connective tissue between the individuals on your team and you're setting the standard that people care for each other and then that additional element of exactly how your culture functions and you are modeling that behavior, then you will actually be way more successful at the whole business thing altogether. Because there will be a time in your business where you are falling apart. Personally, things happen all the time. Unfortunately, as we get older, they happen more and more. Whether it is a death in your family, a breakup, a divorce, hint, hint. Uh, if there's, there's so many things, so many challenges, so many personal issues, and as a founder, you've got so many, so many people on that are looking to you for support and guidance and there will be a time when you're not going to be able to show up for them in this way. But if the other 365 days of the or 64 days of the year, you're showing up in the best, authentic, most caring, thoughtful, considerate, culture driven way possible. And then now you have those materials and processes to back you up, you are going to have a team that is going to help you. They're going to carry the weight of the business and they're going to be the thing that sustains you moving forward. But if you don't put in that vulnerability and if you don't open up yourself to those experiences and if you're not honest with yourself about the areas in which you are not successful, then you're never going to actually be able to get to that next point because it is. Business is really difficult. You shouldn't have to do it totally alone. But unfortunately, being a founder is one of the most lonely positions you can be in. We can have plenty of advisors, plenty of friends, plenty of, you know, all these things going on. But at the end of the day, our relationships with our team is really what's going to keep things going if shit hits the fan for you. So realistically, this is kind of a love letter to my team, but I also wanted to just tell a little bit of context around just kind of. You don't have time to do everything all the time. So if you have to choose, go for the thing that feels the most vulnerable, but also brings out the most, most authentic cultural side of you. Act in the way that you want to. Model behaviors that your team acts as. Send them the birthday text. Make sure that you're checking in on them when you know they're having a hard time. Make sure that you're car time out of your schedule to be there when you need them. There is really no other more important person for you to carve time out for when it comes to work than the people that are making your business go around. And I swear to God, it will be the best investment of your time you ever make. And we're going to make it a little bit easier for you by providing the onboarding bundle that fills the gaps that I talked about today. So within the context of this conversation, we talked a lot about the intangible things that you can do to build like cult like community within your team. We also talked about the benefits of having a cult like community in your team and how it has directly impacted my experience as a founder and my company's success, especially over the last year. And just to give you some context, I may have scaled back my business, but last year was my best revenue year and I started my nervous breakdown in April. So most of the year I was operating on what does my team need me to do? Because that's all I can do right now. And we still hit our highest revenue number that we've ever hit. We're rebuilding now. We're not really on track for that currently. I'll be straightforward with that. But we are successful. We do have incredible clients and we are pushing forward. And I feel supported and I feel cared for and I, uh, the reason for that is because I know how deeply that I care about the work that I'm doing and I Know, my team cares about it too, and I care about them just as much. When you're in a small business and you work with five people, those corporate experience excuses of not knowing about stuff in your team's lives is not going to go very far. So make sure that you're embracing the fact that you've decided to be a CEO of a small business. And that means that you have to approach leadership in a different way. You have to be able to be vulnerable and authentic. One other thing I just wanted to point out in summary of this, is that if you only have time for one thing, one priority, and you choose to go down the path of that authentic connection, and that you really want to make sure that you're being there for your team, even if it means you can't open up the document and send the offer letter, then make sure that at the end of the day, you are giving yourself enough resources to be able to do the bare minimum when it comes to compliance. Because I am compliant in my current situation onboarding this team member, but just barely. So if you don't know what priorities you need to have in order to make sure you're compliant, even if your number one priority is getting somebody into the team that can actually help you do the work, you know, cover the holes, there was an emergency, you're restaffing, you're understaffed, whatever the case may be there you're going to be put in those positions all the time. But don't take this episode as an excuse to not be compliant. Just make sure that you're arming yourself with the resources to ensure that that compliance will be handled. Even if most of your direct time is going to the experience and authentic relationship that you're creating with your new team member and basically facilitating that same type of behavior that you want to see moving forward between them and your clients, them and your rest of your team members. Those are the priorities. The to face time is the priority at this point, but that doesn't mean that this is an excuse not to be compliant. So all of this is to say having a cult like community of your team is something that is not only one of the most secure things that you can do, but it's also the most rewarding. I say all the time and this is the nature of my work. The mission of Paradigm is to help support people to make sure that they can create businesses so that founders can make their mark in the world in the way that they want to. Of course that is the mission, but at the end of the day when I'm on my deathbed, hopefully not soon, um, I want to look back and know that the biggest impact I made was for the people that I cared for, and hopefully the impact that my company made in their lives so that they could have unique experiences, so they could make good money, so that they could be one of the few women who don't have to get sexually harassed by their boss. Those are the types of missions that keep me going every day. If my team wasn't there to support me, then I wouldn't be here. That's just the case. Paradigm would be gone. But because they have helped keep the business going for as long as it has, it's my job to make sure they're safe, they're happy, they're protected, and they don't go to sleep at night having nightmares about this job. So if that's how you feel too, then Paradigm can be a great people partner for you. If you're in a place right now where you have no idea where to begin but you know something's off, start with our onboarding bundle and make sure that you are equipping yourself for success moving forward by establishing some of those tactical materials that and resources that you need in order to stay compliant so that you're allowed to have a business in the future. But if you have an extra 10 minutes, don't spend it tinkering with an offer letter. Spend it connecting with your people.