Karlton Butts: Attorney Development, Culture, and the Real Drivers of Retention

Steve Fretzin: Hey, everybody, before we get to the show, just want to remind you that the Be that Lawyer community is up and running and rock and rolling. We have a lot of amazing business, developer and rainmaking attorneys in there. We've got incredible content, courses, live events, and all kinds of ways to help you to be that lawyer. Check it out today@, uh, bethatlawyer.com community. And other than that, please enjoy the show.

Narrator: You're listening to Be that Lawyer. Uh, life strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretson, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Fretson.

Steve Fretzin: Hey, everybody, Steve Fretson here, and welcome to the Be that Lawyer podcast. I am so thrilled to be here for you twice a week, every week, helping you to be that lawyer. Confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. What do we love about rainmakers, Carlton? What makes rainmakers so special?

Karlton Butts: Well, rainmakers bring in the money. When you run a law firm, you're running a business, right?

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Got to get that dough in the bank, right?

Karlton Butts: You got to get that dough. Uh, you can't really do anything as a, as a law firm, as an organization unless you have the money to do it.

Steve Fretzin: So, yeah, somebody's got to bring in the bucks, right?

Karlton Butts: Absolutely.

Steve Fretzin: What law is there to service?

Karlton Butts: Absolutely.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, exactly.

Karlton Butts: So true.

Steve Fretzin: Well, I'm so happy that you're here. We had just a wonderful conversation. I was thrilled to bring you on. And then it's funny, we were just goofing about the fact that I, I, uh, made a comment about not wanting to hear any more of these Maya Angelou's. You know, people will never forget how you said, but what they've ever forget how you feel. And it's a great quote. I can't, like, you know, bullshit around my way around it. It's a great quote, but it's probably been like the most quoted, you know, thing, uh, on the show. So you were so smart, you gave me two quotes and you did a one up, you did a Phil Jackson. So right off the bat I'm like, okay, you backed it up and supported with a really good quote. So let's do that. It's um, Phil Jackson. Here we go. The strength of the team is each individual member. The strength of each member is the team. So welcome to the show. Carlton, tell us why you love that quote.

Karlton Butts: So I love that quote because, you know, uh, you've heard this statements before. You know, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

Steve Fretzin: Right.

Karlton Butts: And so you want everyone. And this is sort of what I do when it comes to leadership. If I work with executive teams or law firms, you know, the goal is really for everyone on your team to be successful. Right? I mean, that's the goal of any organization. If you spend all this money bringing in the best and brightest on your team, and you want them to succeed, so you want bare strength. Basically, if they maximize their potential, it strengthens the team. But also the strength of the team is each individual. So, uh, you know, I always try to say, in order for anybody to get better, it starts within. It starts with the individual. And if you can maximize that individual's potential, then it strengthens the team. It makes the team that much better. So it kind of works hand in hand. And obviously, watching the Bulls back in the day with Michael Jordan, you know, that quote is just so appropriate, how dominant they were. And you saw that the strength of the team, you know, all of them kind of knew their roles on the team. Obviously, Michael is Michael, but they all played their roles to perfection, which made the Bulls such a great championship team.

Steve Fretzin: But one of the themes in that last dance that I learned, because I just watched it a second time was, you know, it was Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. And then he got to the point where he was like, you know what? I have all these supporting characters, I have all this talent, and maybe I can draw away, you know, the. The defense. And then I've got open people, and they actually can hit their shots if they're open. Right? So, yeah, like, I have to stop thinking about myself, and I have to think about how can I make the other people better? And that's what he did. I think especially the last three championships they got. It was really more about that than about the Jordan show.

Karlton Butts: Absolutely. And look, you wouldn't have Jordan without Pippen. I mean, the reality is really all of them. And this is why that quote, I think, is so appropriate. You needed every person on the team to be strong in order for the team to be strong. Right. And you had a strong head, uh, coach, obviously, on Michael, but you had all the great supporting players, and they all knew their role and they played it well. To your point, if there was an open shot to make and Jordan couldn't make it, he could rely on his team as teammate to make that shot. And it's part of business. You know, you rely on people on your team at your firms in order to sort of keep everything moving forward and to elevate the team and to continue, you know, not only just service clients, but also generate, you know, revenue as well.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, uh, I'm not a huge, like, Jerry Krause fan, but I think there was a quote from him in the. In the thing where he was talking about, it isn't even the team on the field. It's the trainers and it's the back end office, it's the ticket sales, it's the entire Bulls, you know, company and organization that made this, you know, possible. And so he took it even further to say, you know, yeah, the guy's on the court, but it's the. It's all the people that support the security that is in the background that's taking care of, making sure, you know, the players are safe. Like, everybody played their role, which is what made that. If you haven't seen the Last Dance, everybody, I'm telling you, like, it's. Even if you're not a Bulls fan, it's incredible kind of journey.

Karlton Butts: It is. Uh, it is. And one thing I just. Steve, I just want to touch on what you just last said. Really, to me, culture is something you feel right. And so when you walk in the building, whether you're the talent or you're supporting staff or what, uh, whoever. Whatever role you play in that building, you can feel it if there's dysfunction in the training room or if there's dysfunction in the kitchen, or if there's function really anywhere within the organization. It's felt throughout the organization because all of those people touch the lives not only of the talent, but of leadership and everyone else who walks in the building. So great leaders focus on those details. It's not just about the talent. It really, truly is. What you said. It's about everybody else that helps elevate the talent. It truly is one team in one organization that succeeds.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, well, all right. We're already, like, you know, 10ft deep, and, you know, the pool only goes 12. Uh, no, we're. But we're. Let's get this thing kicked off. Uh, welcome to the show. Carlton, everybody. Carlton Butts is the CEO of Matter Tree. And, uh, I just am so thrilled that you're here. We've got some topics to cover that I think are really going to be intriguing to the people listening. But let's take a step back and give us your background, how you came to be in running this, you know, company around culture and leadership and, you know, retention and all things we're going to cover today.

Karlton Butts: Sure. Well, I started out as an electrical engineer, and um, when I, at the time I got my engineering degree, when I was going through it, I wouldn't. Really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I ended up interning at NASA. My background, my dad's a pilot, so my background was around aviation and things like that. And that was sort of my first love. But through that experience, I. I always kind of had a feel for helping other people's success. Which is one of the reasons, uh, after undergrad I took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton, working as a consultant, because I had an idea, you know, this is kind of what I want to do. I really do want to help other people get better and serve their success in their lives. And that ultimately led me to go to law school and get my degree and really start practicing in the Washington, D.C. area. I've worked with some big firms. Finnegan, uh, Henderson, uh, Loeb and Loeb. I ended up moving out to LA after Finnegan and working with Loeb. And uh, then from there I went in house. I, uh, went in house with one of my clients. And I was in house for probably about 15 years. And then I went off on my own. I became an entrepreneur. And it sort of circled back to, you know, wanting to help people, sort of serving their success. And it's interesting we're talking about retention today because one of the reasons why I got into it, uh, I would have friends approach me about issues that they were having at their law firm. And, uh, one friend approached me a day, uh, one day, and he asked me, look, we're having some issues with retention. You know, is there anything you can do to help? And. And so, you know, again, given my background and what I love to do, I. I figured this was really sort of my calling and what I enjoy doing. And. And so that's where I am today. I'm working with executive teams, leadership teams, doing everything I can do to help them improve performance, uh, from the individual team organizational levels and really, uh, enjoy it.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, just awesome. And, you know, even before we talk about retention, which. One of the reasons I wanted to bring up that topic is because I've never kind of been around a time when, uh, talent has been so challenging to find. You figure there's a lot of lawyers and there's a lot of work out there, but right now it seems like there's a talent shortage and especially at the associate level. So retention is a critical element because if you can retain, maybe you don't have to, you know, spend as much time trying to hire. But I think there's probably some things that happen before you even consider retention, like how do you recruit and hire, and how do you develop a culture where retention becomes a part of it? So maybe give us a little bit of that background before we dive into the specifics on retention.

Karlton Butts: Yeah, well, you know, I always say that the most important asset of any organization are their people. And you really do have to invest in the people. You bring them in the door. You spend all this money with, uh, recruiting and training and, you know, finding the best and brightest. To your point, there's a lot of. There's, uh, a shortage out there. So a lot of firms are competing for the same talent. So once you get them in the door, you don't want them to leave. Right. And so you want to do everything you can to get to know who they are, uh, show them how they can be successful in your law firm. I always encourage firms to really develop what I call attorney development plans the second they walk in the door. Find out what their strengths and weaknesses are, find out what their aspirations are, what success looks like for them. Really talk to them and try to get an understanding what they love to do and where they see themselves growing within the firm. I talk to lawyers who've left law firms because of growth. There's no growth at the firm. I've talked to lawyers who, uh, you know, had issues with leadership. You know, in a sense that, you know, I've seen some leadership teams where there really isn't any set mission or values or anything that's sort of established at the leadership level that trickles down into the associate level and the staff level as well. And you want to set those guidelines, I think, early on, for everyone to adhere to. You know, some values that I talk with law firms about is not only just values, you know, integrity and excellence and all, all that, but can be values of how you treat each other and which I think is very important and affirmed and really any organizational environment. And so I think you, uh, really have to be intentional in first making sure that you have, you know, a mission, values you have your purpose. Everyone understands what the ultimate goal of the firm is and really the identity of the firm, what truly is that identity. And then you get everyone aligned behind that identity, and then you do everything. You can continue to nurture that identity and making sure that. That associates feel like they belong and they have clarity of growth and they're involved in really all the things that they should know as far as what's important with their career and how they can be Successful in your firm. Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: Uh, and I think, you know, just as an example, like work ethic is a real challenge in hiring, uh, today. And if that's something that's important or critical to your success as a law firm owner, well, you better be hiring for work ethic. I mean, that should be the number one. Skills should be second or third down the list. And work ethic should be number one. And so if you're interviewing and you know, there's questions that specifically around work ethic, well, I want to be home by 5:30 and I've got my three kids and you know, this is, you know, work life balance and there's a whole conversation and this is someone that needs to be, you know, working, you know, 60 hours a week, you know, in order to maintain, you know, what the culture is of the firm is we're, this is a workhorse firm. Don't bring in someone that isn't a workhorse.

Karlton Butts: Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of it does come to your point at the interview level, I've seen in job posting, they list what their values are. I mean, it's right there in the job posting. So the other thing, you know, I've seen this when I've interviewed for law firms. You know, sometimes when you're interviewing for position, everyone's so busy. Right. So the time you get into somebody's office, they don't even looked at your resume. There hasn't really been a discussion amongst the hiring team as to what questions we should ask. You know, what's important, what do we want to get out of these interviews? Have that up front so when the candidate walks into your office, you're ready for them, you know exactly what questions to ask and you know, the answer to those questions are going to feed in to the overall sort of framework of the kind of person that you're looking to hire. And, and so I think that's so important and really to your point, make sure that if there is something important like work ethic, and I agree, work ethics is a big issue. I hear that all the time, especially about generational gaps, you know, the younger attorneys and sort of how they're a lot different than the older attorneys and, and the expectations that are there. Yeah, but I think if you hire for that, I think there's definitely ways you can, uh, make sure you get the right candidates. You're not going to be perfect. You know, I don't think any organization is 100 is batting, you know, a thousand when it comes to hiring. But you want to make sure you do your best to bring in the right talent for your team.

Steve Fretzin: But what you're saying is that there should be structure that could be testing assessments, that could be interviewing questions. That could be a process. Maybe there's onboarding as an actual function of a month or two. Onboarding where they get, you know, more attention so that they're onboarded. Right. And I think what we're suggesting is that there's a way to gain, uh, retention. Not by begging people to stay or having, you know, a fun culture. Maybe that's a thing, but it's maybe how we. It's like first impressions, right? First impression I have of somebody is they're horrible, and then like, you know, and they want to go out and hang out. Well, no. Right. So I think. Same thing with how you bring people in the right way. Interviewing process, onboarding. And you're demonstrating that this is a place that cares.

Karlton Butts: Yeah, the onboarding. I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think that's the most important part of the whole process. I mean, you, again, you're going to hire who you hire. You go through the interview process and all that. But the onboarding is critical for the first impression part. I think at that point, you should start thinking about your succession plan. You should start thinking about the development plan for that particular individual. Ask them the questions, do an assessment, find out what they like, what they don't like, what their aspirations are, uh, where they see themselves succeeding in the firm. The sooner they get that clarity as to how they fit into the organization and how they can be successful in the organization, the sooner they get that, the more committed and loyal they are to your organization. The longer it takes for that. Where they don't have a sense of belonging, nobody's really talking with them. They don't have clarity of, where am I going to go in this organization, how can I grow? It's not just about billable hours. It's not just about that. Cause I. I've heard. Well, you know, they know the billable hours they're supposed to meet and. And, um, you know, they have certain metrics they're supposed to hit. I get that. But not every attorney is the same. And everyone needs a different plan. It's kind of like we're talking about basketball, uh, earlier. Every player that walks into the court, not all of them are Michael Jordan. You can't treat them all like Michael Jordan. You really do have to find out what makes them tick, what their aspirations are. It's amazing. Once you get to know them on a personal, professional level, you learn so much about how you can help them succeed. It can, you know, with work allocation, with, uh, certain things that you do, uh, if you see they want to thrive in a certain area so they want to do more litigation and more transactional work, give them opportunities in that area. Provide mentors to help them grow in that area. Give them, you know, continue cle you know, uh, opportunities where they can, they can learn more in the areas and develop more skills in that area. I guarantee you, if you do that, it retention becomes a lot easier because you're already showing them a path to success at your firm and they're not looking elsewhere.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I'm also a big fan of, in most managing partners, I don't know that they do this, and if they get this from me, then go do it. Spend some time with people individually, take them to lunch individually and ask them questions and identify what their motivation is. It could save you a lot of frustration that if you know that one lawyer's motivation is to make partner and equity partner and be an owner and that's very different than the next one you take out who says, I just want to do my work and go home. I'll give you a quality work from m, you know, eight to six and then you're going to see me every day with a big smile on my face, but I don't want to do any more than that. And I'll be, you know, okay, well then we know what that person's sort of role is on the team versus someone that, you know is looking to be a rainmaker, for example.

Karlton Butts: Yeah. And you know where that's so important, Steve, is if you don't have that conversation, you don't know sort of where they fall, whether they just want to work hard and go home or whether they want to be a rainmaker. Then you make assumptions, and a lot of times you make the wrong assumptions. You make the assumption, well, that person doesn't want to work or that person doesn't want to do. And now you're starting to label them in a way that's negative. When, if you just had the conversation with them, you know exactly why they're doing what they're doing or their aspirations are where they are. It's unbelievable how a simple conversation like that matters. The other thing I would say, just to take it one step further with what you said, I always encourage that, that, um, there's cross practice communications. What I mean by that is sometimes when you get into a big law firm and say you're in a litigation group or IP group or, you know, trust, whatever it might be, you only see those attorneys within that group. And I think you should have, especially from a leadership level, those conversations should, if you're in the bankruptcy group, call somebody in a litigation group or the IP group, have that 10 to 15 minute conversation with them, hey, how are things going at the firm? Because at the end of the day, they're part of the firm, they're not just part of that practice. And I think sometimes if you don't expose the people in your group to other, you know, people in the other groups and the other practice areas, you feel like you're siloed. You don't really feel like part of the overall organization. You just feel like you're in one little apartment and you don't really know what else is going on outside your, your walls.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, well, it's also a misstep from a business development standpoint because, you know, the people you meet in the other groups that you build a relationship with and have a bond with are the ones that when someone says, you know, I, um, you know, I've got, you know, a billion dollars and I need someone to handle my estate, and you're able to say with clarity, we have literally the best estate planning, you know, guy that handles high net worth people in the, in the state sitting, you know, three doors down from me, you need to meet this person. And they're thrilled about it. And it just, I think the silo, not only from a, from a cultural perspective is negative, but also from a business development and growth perspective is negative.

Karlton Butts: Yeah, absolutely. And a little bit goes a long way. I was at a big firm, and one of the things that really resonated with me was we had a workshop, and I was part of the workshop. And I forgot how many attorneys, but there was, there was a lot of us sort of doing the workshop. And they paired you off, they paired the associates off with partners in other groups. I ended up being partnered with the name partner. And this was a big firm. I was partnered with the second name on the letterhead for this workshop. And I was ecstatic. You know, I was like, oh, my God, I get the rub elbows with the, you know, one of the top guys at the firm. And it was amazing. He was so nice and so kind and so generous with his time. Uh, I got to know someone who I probably thought was untouchable because I'm, you know, I'm a young associate. I didn't think I could talk to, you know, the name part of the firm. But he was so welcoming that it just made me that much more excited to be part of the firm. Just seeing how he treated me, how he said, look, if you have any questions after this, please come by and talk to me. Little things like that. He probably, probably meant nothing to him. But I'm still talking about it to this day. Many years ago.

Steve Fretzin: Talking about it, man.

Karlton Butts: Exactly. But my point is I think sometimes leaders can make really small gestures that go a long way with keeping people loyal and interested and dedicated to the organization. Uh, and it's simple as congratulations on that litigation. Kind of like what I was talking about, the cross practice, um, discussions and communications. You know, if you had a partner, you know, say the litigation team had a big win, wouldn't it be great if you had partners from all of the firm say, hey, great win, you know, good job guys, you know, so it's not just, again, you're not just siloed in your group where everyone's patting themselves on the back. You truly have the whole firm behind you. Uh, not everyone, obviously not everyone's going to reach out. But enough people where it gives you a sense that, wow, this is, this is awesome. You know, we did a great job and I'm actually being knowledge for, you know, for my input and making it happen.

Narrator: Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: Uh, hey everybody. Your next big client might call at 8pm on a Saturday night. The question is, who's picking up? With Lex reception, a real person answers every call 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So you never miss a lead, no matter when they reach out. No AI agents, no voicemail, just professional legal literate receptionists representing your firm the right way, around the clock. And right now, be that Lawyer listeners get 250 off their first month. Visit www.LexReception.com partners BethatLawyer to claim your offer. That's www.LexReception.com SL partner Be Lawyer. Hey everybody. Steve Fretson here and@lawyer.com they don't just market law firms, they help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they're building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That's lawyer.com check them out today with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings IE prides itself on proof, not promises mentality. The best firms hire Rankings IO when they want rankings, traffic and cases other law firm marketing agencies can't deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and Schedule a free consultation at Rankings IO today. One of the most frustrating things that I have to deal with as a part time lawyer therapist, because that happens. Right. For you too, is, um, dealing with closed comp, uh, plans, uh, firms where the lawyer doesn't know how to get to partner, doesn't know how to get to equity, doesn't know what anyone else is making, doesn't know what their bonus is day to day, doesn't know much. And they're coming to me like, you know, and I try to advise them the importance of knowing things because if you're just in the dark the whole time, you're going to get incredibly frustrated. You're bringing in business, you're adding value, but you don't know if you're going to get paid on it. You don't know if it's helping you become something more in that firm. Uh, and so what's your take on that? And like, how can lawyers, like, how should either managers start to address the fact that they have a closed comp or how do maybe. What are some thoughts on how lawyers can try to figure out how to maneuver through that horrible setup?

Karlton Butts: Yeah, that's tough because, I mean, that's a firm policy. No, close comp is sort of what it is. I think I try to encourage law firm leadership to be as transparent as possible. Yeah, let the team know what's going on. I mean, obviously you can't, you can't disclose everything. That's just the reality of business. But there are things where you can give people a sense of this is where you are, this is what we're doing to help you get to where you want to be. And this is where we see you, uh, as part of the leadership group and part of the leadership team. Part of it too is the things that they do to help that attorney move forward. You know, say they, they sent them off to a retreat or an event. You know, maybe they have them networking at certain industry events, um, to help them get. That helps rainmaking as you know, you know, the more people you sort of know and you can connect with, that obviously helps the firm. But I think, you know, even though they might, there are certain things they don't know. The firm is still showing them ways where they fit in and, and how they're wanted and valued as an attorney. And, and we're investing in your growth. We want you to be here investing, uh, in you to be great. And I think if they do enough of that, it could help that attorney at least get some sense of. Okay, I don't know everything, but I know enough to make me comfortable and want to stay here and grow because they're encouraging me and they're. And I see what they're doing. It's not. They're not just telling me. I see what they're doing to help elevate me within the organization. Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: I guess my take is two things. Number one is, you know, talk to people that may know more about it than you. Someone that you can confide in is a mentor that you have, you know, trust in. And you could say, hey, look, I don't need to know everything, but I know nothing. And management isn't being helpful, but I just need to know, like, you know, what was your path? How did this work for you? And what do you know? How. What is it going to really take for me to xyz? The other thing that that popped into my head was, and I deal with this quite often, lawyers that don't know the comp and they're doing, um, other people's work and maybe because of our work together, they're expanding. And this just happened with my client Mike. Shout out to Mike, where he like 5x the business that was coming in because he made efforts to grow what was currently there. Wasn't his client. He didn't have origination on it, but he had the guts and the courage to go to the partner and say, look, I'm expanding this relationship. Um, I would really appreciate if I could also see some of the fruits of that on the origination side. And they just fell over like, of course, yeah, what do you want? Here's 50% because he asked. We have to take some chances. And if you do it in a nice way and you don't do it as like you're a dick, like there's really positive things that can come out of this. Um, and again, if you know that you have a good relationship with management, make the ask. The worst thing they say is no. And maybe if they say no, okay, but it also should, you know, give you some indications. Maybe that culture isn't what you thought. Or maybe it goes to show, look, you know, this is someone else's stuff. No touch. Maybe you need to build your own book and then you can start turning down that work.

Karlton Butts: Yeah, no, that's a great point. Ask. I always encourage everyone to ask, always speak up, have a voice. But what's important there is making sure that people are comfortable asking questions. I've talked to law firm leadership. I've seen situations where certain things there are Certain things you don't ask and there's certain things you don't say. There's no encouragement to be open about things that are going wrong with the firm or questions or, uh, even sharing ideas. One of the big things I try to work with attorneys on is be open minded and be an active listener when people are sharing ideas or asking you questions. I see sometimes lawyers getting defensive. It's sort of in our nature, right where. Or they defend their position, or they kind of shut down a question or, well, you know, we'll get to that later. Or they're dismissive. And I've seen that. I've seen sometimes the, the interaction be a partner and associate, and it's sort of a dismissive relationship. And, uh, you get to a point where the associates just stop asking questions. Like I'll raise my hand, I'll bring something up in the meeting, or I'll raise something to a mentor in a private meeting. And everything I'm asking is just going unanswered or even unheard. They're starting to ignore me. And, you know, maybe that is the sign to leave at that point. But I think to the extent that the leadership can, can be, uh, really emphasized that there, everyone has a voice. If you're feeling a certain way, if you're having a problem, talk to us, ask the question. And you want them to feel they can do that without any retribution or anything that's going to potentially hurt their, you know, their position in the firm.

Steve Fretzin: All right, we have two more questions left. I think, you know, the last one, but this one, uh, is. I just need a, I need a really strong answer here because this is going to wrap it all up for us. What is one step that lawyers listening that are either managing people or that are part of management or just they're future managers that they can take to improve the retention in their law firm.

Karlton Butts: The first thing you should do is take a look at your, the data, look at why people are leading, what is the data telling you, what departments are they leaving from, and find out where they're going. And to the extent you can find that out, you know, look at the numbers that the numbers tend to let you know where the root of the issue might be, and that's where you start looking. You have to get to the root of the problem. You have to find out what is causing all these people to leave. And then you need to talk to the people that are still there, find out, hey, you know, what was it about Mike that, you know, you think might have Been an issue. You know, talk to them. And a lot of times they know. You know, when you're in the. An employee or you're an associate, associates talk. They all talk about what's going on. And if things aren't going well, they talk even more. So they know a lot of times why somebody left. And if it's. If it's something that you could have prevented, you know, you want to know that. And then you want to adjust your attorney retention policies and start focusing on fixing the core issues as quickly as you can. I always say find the one thing that you can do that makes the most impact in shortest period of time so it shows people that are still there. You're making an effort to change.

Steve Fretzin: I love it. I love it. All right, well, listen, we're at that point. What's Carlton's big mistake?

Karlton Butts: Oh, man, there's so many of them. I don't think we have enough time.

Steve Fretzin: Uh, most, most commonly said thing. After I ask the question, for sure,

Karlton Butts: I will say this. I want to give you, uh, sort of a general answer. You know, what I've learned over the years, and this is something I think we can all get better at, is planning. Planning. Planning. Planning is writing down being intentional and planning what you're going to do. Every time I failed, I failed to have a strong plan. Sometimes we wing things. Sometimes we. We'll say we'll figure it out along the way. But where I've had the most results in my life is when I literally sit down and write down what I'm going to do. I have a plan. I know exactly what I'm going to do and when I'm going to do it. And as things change or adjust, you know, you. You adjust the plan. But make sure you focus on that is so critical that you have a plan. Whatever you want to do, whatever goals you set, whether it's professional or personal, it's helped me in every aspect of life. I can't overemphasize that enough.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, really, really great stuff. Uh, well, listen, thank you. And I want to thank our sponsors. We have pimcon coming up in October. If you're a PI attorney and you have not been to pincon, you better get your seat. It is the hottest ticket in, uh, in the PI space. We've got lawyer.com if you're looking to be a part of a great directory and get found lawyer.com and of course, Lex reception. Um, if you're answering your phone. For shame, for shame, you shouldn't be answering your phone. And you should definitely not let it go to voicemail. Oh, my God, what a terrible idea that is. So check out Lex reception, everybody. And, um, Carlton, people want to get in touch with you. They want to hear more about culture and leadership and retention, and they want to talk to a real pro. Uh, what are your digits?

Karlton Butts: Well, you can call me. I'll give you my phone number. 310-489-6506. That gets me directly. You can also email me at Carlton K A R L T O n@matter tree.com. um, you can go to my website, Carlton K A R L t o n speaks dot com. And of course you can always find me on LinkedIn as well.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, awesome, man. Love the guitars behind you. And I know you have a love for music. We didn't get to talk about it today, but I might give you a. Give us a reason to have you back.

Karlton Butts: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I always love talking about music. I have my book Soundtrack of Leadership, which talks about music and leadership. So it's definitely one of the passions, uh, that I've had all my life.

Steve Fretzin: All right, all right. I love it. I love it, man. I appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your wisdom and hey, everybody, I want to thank you for being a loyal listener. And, uh, again, if you're enjoying the show and you're getting great value, why are you being shy? Tell people about it. Give us a review. Let us let people know you love to Be that Lawyer show. And by the way, check out Future Rainmakers. I have had a, uh, a kind of a swarm of lawyers coming at me with this Future Rainmakers podcast because they're just getting more direct advice from me. Time management, business development, marketing. And I bring in clients to kind of share their experiences. A really good way to get to know what we're teaching here at Be that Lawyer. So check out Future Rainmakers, everybody. And it's all about you, helping you be that lawyer. Confident, organized and skilled. So check that out, everybody, and thank you and, uh, be safe and well and we will talk again so very soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. To Be that Lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website, Fredsen.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.