My First Million Podcast Ep. 19 - Building A Profitable IT Business & Extreme Ownership With Doug Bates

But just the energy and just the the drive of I am not going to fail. You know, I was not going to fail starting this business in the middle of recession with my kids watching me. I just wasn't. My mantra when we started this business is we will fail doing this business right before I succeed doing it wrong.

When you're doing the tech work, then you become a technician to your client and not their strategic partner. You are responsible for everything in your life. If you're successful, it's your fault. If you're not successful, it's your fault.

When you are the owner of a small business, you are responsible. Hello everyone. Welcome to the MSP Success Podcast, My First Million, where we pull back the curtain and have some candid conversations with MSP CEOs who did just that. My name is Allison Felber.

I'm the editor-in-chief at MSP Success. And I have the honor of speaking today with Doug Bates. And Doug Bates, Doug's the president of CMI, uh CMIT Solutions, the Atlanta Southern Crescent area. Did I get that right, Doug?

Yes, ma'am. Yeah, we have two locations actually. We opened a second location three years ago, and that's Atlanta Northwest. All right, taking over Atlanta region by region.

One step at a time. Yeah, uh, you know, Doug's got a little bit different of a start. You know, we we do these interviews a lot, you know, and sometimes you start to see kind of some patterns and trends. And I was very interested, you know, in Doug's start.

Um, you know, a lot of it is, you know, coming from, you know, a tech background and and getting a degree in IT or telecommunications and working in-house. Well, Doug actually has, and correct me if I'm wrong, but from my research, your BA or no BS degree, you have a bachelor of science degree in business administration and speech communication. Is that right? That's that's correct.

Okay. Uh, and I also saw in there, see, I creaked on you beforehand. I found out all these different things. You actually worked at Lego early on in your career as well.

Am I right? Yes, yes. As a matter of fact, if I showed you, if I turned my camera, you would see my um X-Wing Fighter, my Darth Vader, I've got a um a Mandalorian helmet, I've got another uh Grogu statue here I got to put together. Um yeah.

So it's still a big part. I grew up, my dad worked for um Monsanto and sold plastic, uh petrochemic or uh petrochemicals and uh plastics, and so he actually sold resins to Lego back before they started um manufacturing in the United States. So when he would go over to Europe, he would bring Lego back to us kids when we were small. So I grew up playing with Lego, and then it was a dream job to work for him for a little bit.

I actually have um the pirate sets came out in 1989. I have an original Black Seas Barracuda pirate ship uh mint in package that's worth about five or six thousand dollars. I love that's so fun. I love that.

Well, we we will talk about Lego a little bit here in a minute with kind of how you got your start. But you know, we're here to talk about you know your first million. So um, you know, I you started in in 2009, am I right? April Fool's Day 2009.

April Fool's Day 2009. Uh, also right in the middle of a recession. So talk about the perfect day to start, you know, a brand new company. Yeah.

Uh what was going through your head at that moment? Well, I just um I really felt called to do my own thing. I'd been in corporate for 20 plus years. I had run a $750 million global PL as a part of the tyco business.

Um when they sold our that plastic, I sold plastic garment hangers. When they sold that plastics business off, I was a global vice president, um, took a job to kind of stabilize the family and not move because we had moved like every two or three years during my corporate sales career. And I just was like, we're not gonna move again. Well, then the recession hit.

I was last in, highest paid. And of course, you know, they came in and had the conversation. I'm like, yeah, I get it. So I had a chance to move to Houston and move my family again.

And I came in, and or my daughter came in from school, she was in middle school, and my wife said, Yeah, we're, you know, your dad, you know, is gonna change jobs, and it looks like we're maybe moving to Houston. She started crying, and she's like, You said we wouldn't have to move again. And it just broke my heart. Um, it just, I'm like, I can, I am not gonna go back on my word.

So um the executive, you know, part of the executive buyout package was I got a recruiting firm. And so he said, you know, franchises would love your sales background. So I started, I went through a franchise broker and we talked to a bunch of franchises and um evaluated probably 30, and we narrowed it down to three or four. And, you know, the thing about IT that I that really resonated for me is I've always been in the business-to-business model.

So I love the B2B model. Um, I love the annuity-based model of the MSP, as opposed to having to fill the transactional based of some of the other franchises we were looking at. So to me, it was kind of resonated with my national account and my global account background. Well, if you if you get an account and you take care of it, it's much easier to scale and grow and build those relationships that I was so used to doing.

And then the other thing that resonated for me about IT is having been in a global position, when we when our IT went down, we couldn't communicate. We sold plastic garment hangers. And if I couldn't get orders, and if I couldn't get specs, and if I couldn't get drawings, we couldn't do business. So when it didn't work, it cost money.

So I understood the pain side of it. Yeah. Um, and then when you throw in the fact when I I worked for GE Lighting for 10 years, and one of the great things that lessons I learned there was I never had to convince anybody they needed my lighting or lighting in general. I just need to convince them they needed mine because everybody needs lighting.

So when you come to small businesses, everybody needs it. I just need to convince them they need mine, my support. So I don't have to generate the need for the product. I just need to generate the uh create the value proposition that makes sense to them and then provide the customer support behind it.

And I tell my technicians all the time, because like you said, I'm I'm not a technician. I I mean I go home and take a nap if I change out a UPS. You know, I just swap out a monitor, I tell the guys, this is on you. Um so my focus is on you guys do the tech stuff, I'll take care of everything else.

You just be great technicians, and I'll take care of the billing, I'll take care of the products, I'll take care of the purchasing, I'll take care of everything else. You just go be great techs. But when I tell you how to communicate with a client, that's my area of expertise. So the way we communicate our patterns for follow-up, our the way we phrase and talk to our clients is is based on my third 25 plus years of sales and marketing experience for the great companies I have on how to interact and build customer relationships.

So those are the type techs that we look for to come work for us from a culture perspective. And then I've got a my VP of IT has been with me almost since the beginning, and his job is to make them be great techs. I love that. Uh curious, what were some of the other franchises you were looking at?

Uh we looked at Bright Star Healthcare, um, but my wife had just lost her mom to cancer, and she said, I can't be in a business where we lose our patients. I just can't deal with that. We actually looked at certipropainters, they really were putting a full court press on me. Um we looked at a company called ERA, which is expense reduction analysts.

Um, there was a uh uh action coach, um, were the probably the top ones that we were were looking at. But the technology one just really resonated because it's it's it's important. If we I knew if I did it right, that our customers would benefit. And that's what I get out of doing sales, is I love helping other people be successful.

Because I played team sports, and so I do it, did a lot of coaching on the side. And so I really love the aspect of providing something that matters. And, you know, when it comes to small businesses, it's now the fourth leg of the the old three-legged stool was, you know, your attorney, your your CPA, and your insurance agent. Well, now you got to have technology.

So it's just been um it's been a real blessing. And April Fool's Day, I'm I'm a big time smart alec. Um, and so that was just my way of giving the big fat finger of fate to the recession and saying I choose not to participate. And actually, yeah, actually, Jeff Johnson, who's the president of TMT, I've he was a CMIT franchise um owner when I joined, when I was validating, and I talked to Jeff on a validation call.

And he at the time was the only CMIT that was doing a million in revenue. He and his partner Thor in San Francisco. And I hung up the phone, I turned to my wife, and I said, This is the one we're gonna do. She says, Why?

I said, Because if he can do a million dollars, I can do a million dollars. So just because I, you know, I'm a competitor, so I said, if somebody else can do it, I can do it. And so, you know, Jeff bailed, you know, on me eight months later and went to TLT, and here I am, uh, still in the franchise system. But uh, but it can't, you know, it's the old thing, you know, when you when you use the phrase I am or I will, um, you know, you have a better chance of being successful.

And I was like, I I will do that. I can do that. I am gonna do that. I love that.

So what were what were some of the hardest parts, you know, of those first couple years uh and kind of getting through the recession and and building a business? Well, there's just, you know, we literally, um, fortunately our kids were were very good athletes and they both got scholarships, but they were in, you know, high school at the time. So knowing that they were gonna probably get a free education, we took their money as what we bought the franchise with. So we said, hey, stay healthy.

You know, uh, if there's no more college money, yeah, it's right. Um, yeah, yeah. And so the really the hard thing was more on the personal side. Literally, you know, when you start a small business, you have to invest totally.

And I was on an you know, uh uh uh unemployment, if you will, you know, the compensation, the buyout from the from the sale or the you know, getting laid off the the um severance package. And so having to look at my kids and say, yeah, you can go to Chick-fil-A, but yeah, I don't have five bucks for a sandwich for you. You know, um, we just had to really, really tight. My wife stayed at home, she was a stay-at-home mom.

She was an uh executive admin early in her career before she became a stay-at-home mom, and so she was doing back office stuff. Um, so we just sat him down and said, listen, this is what I you know feel called to do, but it's gonna be really, really tight while we do this. And so we're gonna have to make sacrifices. And I need you guys to understand that.

And they were phenomenal. I have um little post-it notes on the bottom of my monitors from uh, you know, here's one from my daughter. This was like at year two. It's like, love you, daddy, you are my hero.

You know, um, so I'm so proud of you, love you, keep on keeping on. So um one from my son. Uh, it just so those are the things that I got from them. And my they would run, my daughter especially, when the phone rang, if I couldn't get to it because we started out of our home, she would run back into the office if I was out and she would answer the phone, CMIT solutions.

This is Kristen, how can I help you? You know, so it just was, you know, they really, I was really blessed that they understood and bought in. But that's really tough as a dad when you got to tell your kids no for basic stuff. Um, but I just felt really called and motivated that this was long-term the best thing for our family to get me off the road, you know, be home with the kids while they were starting to, you know, going through high school, which is a really, I think, an important time for for young adults to have their parents there, both parents.

And so um, that was probably the toughest thing on the personal side. And on the professional side, you know, the sales part, I've I've been a sales guy my whole career. That was really easy going out, kissing babies and shaking hands, but I didn't understand the technology. So really, you know, I was fortunate to um, I think it's a a God thing that Brian and I got connected.

Um, and he became my, you know, he started with me as a part-time tech and now he's my VP of IT services and been with me, it'll be 16 years uh next month, um, that he was that good. But I just would wear him out standing over his shoulder, you know, when we had four clients, you know, with nothing else to do. What are you doing? What are you doing?

What are you doing? Because I wanted to understand, right? And so he would literally look at me and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna make this work, okay? So can you just go stand in the corner and you know, get a and I'll tell I'll walk you through it at the end.

So just the patience of, you know, letting that the customer experience and letting him solve the problems. I was really good in front of the customers and the networking, but didn't have a whole lot of patience on the tech side because I didn't understand it. So um, and uh, he was really, really patient with me, does a great job, still does a great job of communicating, um, speaking human to our clients and being able to dumb down the technology enough that us, you know, laymen can understand it.

So that was probably the biggest, the biggest challenge for me. Because we grew, you know, fairly quickly. We did, you know, 70 grand in our first year, we did 300 in our second year, we did 600 in our third year, 700 in our fourth, and a million in our about halfway through our fifth year. So we were we were growing pretty good.

So um, but when you're not taking a salary for 18 months and you're eating beans and weenies, um, you know, it uh it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, yeah. I I think that there's probably a a lot of listeners who either relate because they're there right now, or maybe they've just gotten on the other side and are you know now faced with different problems, but it's it's rough, you know, and especially at the time being in the recession as well.

Um, you know, speaking of other MSPs, you know, before before hitting that million dollar mark at around year five, you know, you said, what are what are one or two things that really enabled you to to jump that that hurdle to get over the million-dollar mark? Um, well, having because since I'm not a tech technical guy, having that strong technical resource um to solve the problems and deliver the the product stack and the service. You know, back then it was also a lot easier.

It was just an antivirus and a monitoring agent. You know, it's a lot more complex now. Um it's that fourth leg. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Um the uh, you know, having that, um, you know, I joked with him. I said, listen, Brian, I said, you got a 24-hour contract that renews at seven o'clock every morning. And as long as stuff's working and I don't get a UMF call from a client, you can come back to work.

Otherwise, I got to find somebody smarter because I couldn't, I couldn't do any of the technical stuff. So, you know, having that resource was huge for me, you know, also understanding, you know, Paul Dipple got connected with him and listening to him early on because I'm a data guy. And so listening and doing research, you know, back then it was, you know, I think it's still 70%, but back then it was almost 80% of leads come from networking and client referrals. So the only thing I could do to generate sales back then was to network.

We actually used Robin Robbins, CMIT, as a system back in 2009 when I started my very first, I did the aspirin campaign in 2009. Um, and then after I did that, I think the relationship uh they separated, they stopped using them. But so we started doing that, and at least the broadcast marketing and the importance of grassroots marketing, um, we continued to do. Um, but it was literally joining the chambers, showing up, being consistent and understanding, you know, the old other phrase I tell a lot of people, you know, act like you've been there before.

You know, fortunately for me, I'd been in sales before, so I, you know, I called on Walmart and you know. So calling on a somebody who's only gonna spend $500 with a month with you is not was not intimidating, but you still have to treat them the same, especially when you're starting out to get that that grassroots moment. I mean, I would sell anything that I can make a profit on. And that's I think one of the fault faults that I see in a lot of new MSPs and um is that they're like, oh, I only want to, I'm only gonna sell managed services.

Okay. Well, then you better slow your curve down because not every, you know, you gotta, especially the economy now, it's much harder to to shift somebody from another MSP to you. So you may have to start with some break fix work, you may have to start selling hardware, you may have to start other stuff to make profit, to pay your bills, to generate revenue, to spend on marketing, to get the clients that you want. And um, so you have to be able to mature.

And this is the other thing about Paul Dipple that I liked is the five stages or seven stages of maturity, or the in the different models that can be successful. Um, and so knowing where you are, knowing where you want to go and having a plan to get there. And that was always my goal. I mean, when I first started out, 50% of my revenue was hardware software, 60%, you know.

Um, and my goal was always to, okay, I'll shift that mix over time as I grow my managed service, you know, get rid of some of the break fix. And it, you know, it takes time. And so we uh did that slow migration to now where I think I've got a really we've got a really healthy mix and have a very distinct vision for what we want to be. And I'm not uh I'm not looking to be a $20 million MSP.

That's really not my goal. My son's now in the business with me. My daughters do our marketing, so it's truly a family business with two locations. I just want to help my son um build it to where he wants it to be so that he can support his family and then he can do with it what he wants, you know, in 10 years when I'm out of the business.

But I'm having a ball now working with them all and growing the business. Yeah, I love that that they're all that they're all working there now. And it's uh when you were talking about, you know, new people starting out in MSP and wanting to go right into only managed services, you know, it reminds me, you know, back when, you know, I worked um at TMT and I ran their digital marketing program, you know, the agency. And I would, I would listen myself, I would listen to all these calls that would come in for uh people that we're doing digital marketing for.

And it's the people that would they would call in, they'd say, you know, my computer's not working or my network's down. And I would literally hear some of these people say, like, oh, well, we only do managed services or we only do contracts, or when I'm like, you're burning that lead. It was so painful. But you're right, that's how it comes in.

Yep. And even now, I mean, even at four million now, we we had a call the other day that came in and like, yeah, we're really looking for just, you know, it's a residential call. So I, you know, helped her find. We have a local guy that does residential that we refer to.

Um, but I still take every call that calls in to make sure that we're not not missing an opportunity because our largest account started at 15 seats, one location, break fix. And now they're 250 seats and you know, spend a lot of money with us and allowed us to take care of them. But when we've been able to grow with them, but had I been in that managed service-only model back when they were just starting and family-owned, they you know, chances are they wouldn't be a client.

I've waited, you know, two years for clients to come around and come on board. So um that's the one thing I think that I really love about being the sales guy in the business and not the tech, is that when new employees come on and we talk about accounts in the office, I know the story for every client. I know how they, I know how the league came in, I know how we started. I remember how we built the relationship and all the different iterations as we've grown with them.

And so I really, you know, sometimes it's like grandpa telling stories in the office, you know, if we've got a slow afternoon and they get me started and I start telling stories about uh about clients and past employees. You know, we've got, you know, every anybody who's had employees has stories, and so I've got a whole handful of stories about, oh my gosh, you wouldn't believe the time that, you know. Fill in the blank. Yeah.

Yeah, fill in the blank. That's right. All right. Well, we talked, you know, a couple different times about, you know, you entering in, you know, to the IT space differently, you know, not with an IT background, more with the sales, you know, business focus.

Um, you know, a lot of our listeners are, you know, the opposite. So, you know, coming from a career with, you know, at places like Lego, you know, and GE, you know, what are some lessons from the corporate world and you know, kind of the sales side of things that you can give to someone who has only an IT focus? Well, I think there's some pretty standard ones out there that a lot of people have heard before, you know, don't work in the business, work on the business, for example.

Um, you know, it's easy for me because I'm not conflicted, right? Because I can't do that. Now, there are days it's really, really frustrating when we're swamped and because I'm a problem solver and I always want to help, right? So when somebody's got a problem and we're trying to figure out how to staff it or how to overcome the problem, and I can't roll up my sleeves and go in and start fixing a server problem or you know, reconfiguring something.

I just can't, I just have to stand back. Um, so that that frustration is real. But as far as keeping us and keeping the business on the strategic path that we want, you have to stay out of the weeds. The other reason for that is when you start doing the when you're doing the tech work, then you become a technician to your client and not their strategic partner.

And it's very, very hard to undo that when they they have you on the phone and they're like, hey, while I've got you on the phone, you know, my um my right screen's not working. Can you help me? Hey, for me, hey, let me get it, let me get a ticket create and I have a tech call you. Yeah, I because I can't do it.

Um, and so it keeps me very, very segregated and keeps me focused on, you know, what why are you doing this project? What software's down the road, what do you, what's your vision for your business, what you know, acquisitions do you have coming up, and focusing on the PL side and what our model continues to look with them. So I'm constantly evaluating the value that we provide to clients to make sure that, because I do things, you know, Allison, I do things a lot differently than than a number of MSPs do regarding how we treat our clients.

For example, I don't have automatic escalators built into my contracts. Some people say that's crazy. We should have automatic escalators because it increases the value of your business. Yeah, but I'm a franchise, and the chances of me selling outside the system are slim or none.

So I'm gonna run this business, I'm not gonna sell it. So um I wanted I do price increases based on merit, based on changing the stack, or based on economic conditions. I just don't do automatic, I don't like them for my landlord. I don't want to do them to my clients.

Um so that's one thing we do. We have agreements, we don't have contracts. We have three-year agreement that has an evergreen. But after you're in it, um, depending on the level you're on, but most of them, for most of my clients now, they're on a 30-day out.

There is there is no buyout. I've got clients who've been with me 10 years, pay me $10,000 a month, and if they want to leave tomorrow, they could leave tomorrow. They give me a 30-day out and they're gone. So that forces me and my team to stay frosty.

We have to make sure we're doing customer service. We have to make sure we're doing because everybody's only 30 days away from leaving. So there is no security blanket for us in our customers saying, oh, well, you know, if they leave, they got to, you know, pay us, you know, $100,000. We don't have any of that.

Matter, and so um that again, that doesn't help the value of my business to a potential buyer, but it makes my customer experience for the client significantly different and less um rigid than a number of other MSPs, right? So, and I'm not saying it's better, I'm just saying it's different. And so because we're focused on the customer first and working back to us, and I'm not in it for a 10x buyout at some point, um, it's allowed us to grow and scale and keep our clients, you know, our turnover.

I think I've lost nine clients in 16 years. Wow. So, you know, some right? So, I mean, some people say, Oh, 10% a year is fine.

I can't afford 10% turnover every year. Um, so therefore, our sales engine doesn't have to be as aggressive, our marketing engine doesn't have to be as aggressive, our messaging doesn't have to be as aggressive. We can be more patient because we're stable financially and our relationships are solid, and that's our focus first. And then so our client referrals are are really good ones when we get them.

Yeah. Yeah. So and we tend to close a lot of those, and that helps us grow slow and steady wins the race. Yeah.

So you're doing you're doing a lot of things right, obviously. You know, we've talked about a lot of them, but is there one thing you did that that didn't work? Um, and maybe what you learned from it. Oh, geez.

And I I made the joke with uh with a colleague today. I was like, hey, in marketing, there's there's just you know, there's they're just trial and error, there's no mistakes, it's just you try different. Yeah. Um most of this mistakes, I think it would have been uh on the our table of organization.

You know, when we first we have what's called a director of first impressions that answers the phone. Um, because we do live answer, we don't use third party, it's a W-2 employee. And we first started that position, we started it with a level one technician, and it just failed miserably because they kept trying to solve the problem they wanted to learn instead of actually doing the customer service side. So for what what my goal was for how we interacted with our clients, it just was really bad.

So we did two, both of them failed miserably. And I'm like, you know, my my baseball background said I'm not striking out, so we're not doing the third time. So we went for somebody that had no tech background and came from the hotel industry and had a customer service background, and all of a sudden the customer responses was, oh, we love Valerie, she's awesome, she's awesome. Oh, this is great.

You know, finally somebody that we can talk to that didn't, you know, try and tell me how stupid I am or that you know make me feel stupid because they start telling me what what I did wrong. Yeah, right. Um so it just changed the whole client experience. And I'm like, okay, so that's one.

Um we actually did an outsourced help desk. Um, and our clients called it the escalation desk. Um, and so we stopped that. Well, as soon as I heard that from a client joking, oh, you say, Oh, you I said, Yeah, have you opened a ticket?

And they said, Oh, you mean with the escalation desk? And I said, Excuse me. And so that's when we brought all of our guys in house. And again, it cost me a little more money and our model's a little different, but it works for us.

Um so most of them is you know, making a bad hire, hiring somebody too quickly, you know, working for GE for 10 years back in the Jack Welch era, his mantra was always hire slow, fire fast. And there was a couple of times where I hired fast and fired slow. Um, and so caused us some some pain and suffering um and had a lot of um butt kissing to get out of those holes with clients. But um, but yeah, I would say most of the mistakes have been on um on the HR side of it.

Because this is absolutely the greatest job in the world if you didn't have to deal with employees. Absolutely. I love dealing with the clients. So there's employees.

Oh my gosh, the employees. And I've got really good ones now, but you know, I've got seven uh technicians now, and I think I've probably gone through 40 in 16 years, so I got a lot of stories. Speaking of, you know, employees and you know, managing employees, I was listening to another interview, you know, with you, and you were talking about some automation, you know, that you guys have really put into place that have freed up your team from a lot of admin work. And, you know, I know everybody's always interested, like, oh, what are you automating?

How are you automating this? So talk about maybe one or two processes that you that you've automated or your team's automated that you would you know never go back to doing manually. Well, I mean, a lot of it's the same stuff everybody else is doing. We're we're trying to automate the ticket process, the escalation process, um, the note-taking process, um, time tracking process, just anything that we can do to allow the technicians.

Um, so my background when I was in sales and marketing was for manufacturing companies. And one of them was an aluminum extrusion company. And so we had aluminum extrusion presses, and I look at my technicians like an aluminum extrusion press because they're W-2 employees and I pay them a salary. They're not hourly.

So I pay them a salary. So I've got a fixed amount of capacity in that technician that I need to maximize every week in order to be profitable. And so we track. The profitability or the productivity at real-time time entries and employee utilization, resource utilization on a weekly basis against our goals to be in the upper quartile, to make sure that they are being productive and I'm doing things to help keep the morale up and the and the culture up so they stay productive, stay want to be there, we eliminate turnover, all those things hurt productivity.

So anything I can do, because at the core, really good technicians, they want to geek out. They want to solve problems, they want to, you know, drive their, you know, stick their flag in the ground when they're done with a ticket and say, yep, I solved this. Um, and so the more I can let them be really good technicians and get those processes in place, um, the better off we are. So um we're constantly, as a matter of fact, I just had a conversation with my V VP Brian this morning about how do I free up more time for him to dig deeper in AI on the automation side, on the technical side, because whether you look at any of the vendors that you look at, um Roost or PIA or any of these, there's a lot of there's a lot of resources that you have to apply against it to get everything set up so that you can gain the benefits of the efficiencies of the automation.

So um you gotta, you know, nothing's free, right? So you gotta you gotta put in the time. So we're still working through some of that, but we've already automated with a lot with auto test. We we're a big Caseya partner, and so we've done a lot of automation with uh with uh Cooper uh the I think it's the Cooper agent that they have, Cooper Bot, the AI agent that they have, um, integrating tools, uh make sure the tools are integrated so that they don't have to enter data uh in four different places or enter it in three and forget in the last one that the most important one, right?

You know, um so those are the things that we've really focused on to date, um, to date right now. And so we're um starting to ramp up, we're adding automation on the marketing side. Uh Kristen, my daughter, just came back from the roadshow in Chicago with all the AI automation there on the marketing side. So we're doing a lot of uh that we've uh have been in the producer's club.

We've done a lot on that side with uh building our gurus and our avatars, and now we're doing it with list cleaning and you know, um uh looking at cold calling and just constantly, constantly looking at a matter of fact. Uh we just came back from our CMIT convention and and uh I have a baby Doug video, uh, baby Doug X to use for intros when I do my AI presentations so we can show people, you know, that we're paying attention to AI. And it's that's pretty funny. My my staff got a big kick out of it, and so do my kids.

Um but we're just yeah, it's we're just trying to, you know, we're just trying to keep, you know, I can't we can't afford small businesses can't afford to be on the bleeding edge, but you got to keep, you don't, as he's talking about with marketing, you just don't know what's gonna work, right? You don't know what message is gonna resonate. And so you've got to have multiple messages out there in multiple places so that when somebody's in pain, they can find you. And then, you know, the name of the game on the back side is, you know, the personal touch and efficiency.

So if I can the more efficient I can have my technicians be and getting a faster resolution for the clients, and we have a personalized customer service experience, um, I can keep my clients over somebody who automates and does AI chat bots. And um, because a lot of that stuff, you know, small business owners don't like. And that's fine for those that do. Um, you know, I don't begrudge anybody for doing what works for them, but you know, one of the things I keep having to remind myself, um I just had this conversation with my wife the other day, is the percentage of businesses that have been in business over 15 years and that are over 4 million in revenue is less than one half of 1%.

So we're doing something right, and I'm not gonna stop looking at new things, but I can't change at the core who we are because then we upset everything that we have and put it all at risk. So you take small risks and you you um you calculate the risks as you go along through the process. Okay. Now I know this is you know my first million podcasts, but you know, question for you know, beyond hitting revenue numbers, what does success look like to you?

Well, I mean, obviously you got to, you know, one of the things like the great things like Paul Dipple even uh called me out for this in front of uh the peer group at CMIT. He says, you know, Doug does two things really, really well. He looks at the top line and or he focuses on the top line and he focuses on the bottom line. So, you know, it's all about making money.

Um, so at the end of the day, you got to be profitable. So uh I don't care how big you are, if you're losing money or you know, you're you're not making money, um, then there's an there's an issue. And and making money to me is a relative term. It's making is are you making enough for you?

Right? Um, for you, your family, your business, your goals, whatever, because everybody's that's all relative. Um, you know, success is um having a name in the community that you can be proud of. Um, that when you walk in um to a chamber event, when you walk into a client's office, um, when you see a client in a restaurant or a client in the movie theater, you know, they walk up and shake your hand and give you a hug.

Um, that's success to me. That means we're doing the the right thing. We're not only making money and taking care of our employees, but we're also taking care of the clients um and building a brand and a reputation in the industry that we can be proud of. I told my my son this um when he first came into me.

I mean, he's heard it for years, but my mantra when we started this business is we will fail doing this business right before I succeed doing it wrong. Um and he actually repeated that um to a client on a uh on a um presentation, a pr uh uh a prospect uh unsolicited by me. And you know, it's like, oh, I have to turn away because that that was a proud dad moment that that resonated with him. Um but that's I I really I really truly mean that.

I mean, we you you know, all we are called to do is be is to be the best that we can be every day and have faith that God will do the rest. And so I'm constantly evaluating what we do and how we treat our our friends, families, and clients today on how we did yesterday and are we better today than we were yesterday? And when we stop that pursuit of excellence, um then I I need to get out. Because then you get complacent, then you burn goodwill, then you lose friends, then you lose clients, um, and none of that's any fun.

I don't ever want to be that guy. And I've and I won't let our business be that business. Yeah, 100%, 100%. Um, okay, two two kind of quicker quiet, well, I guess it doesn't have to be quick, but one of them may want to not, you've referenced, you know, Paul Dipple a little bit here in their service leadership.

Is there uh is there one, you know, maybe business book or you know, business coaching program that has really that stands out to as just really being a game changer for you? Well, there so this is really funny. Um, I have a um bookshelf full of business books. Um, I have not read any of them.

I have people given me a lot of books over the years, um, but I gain information through conversation because it's like golf digest and golf world and golf this and golf that. They all say the same thing, they just verbalize it differently. It's different styles. So I'd rather talk to, you know, that's one thing I love about the TMT platform, having the authors there and listening to them talk, um, and you know, getting information directly.

So there's really not any business book. You know, one of my early region managers was very, very influential on me, is a guy by the name of Paul Brown in Texas. And he was just a very solid, balanced, calm um manager that, you know, like taught me, hey, you know, kid employees are like kids. When somebody asks a question, the first you always try and find a way to say yes.

And you go through the data and you go through, then you know, if you have to say no, you have to say no, but you have a reason for it. You don't just assume, you know, Six Sigma methodology actually has been one of the greatest things for me because being a data guy, it teaches you to make data-driven decisions and not make assumptions. So that it that that applies to everything that we do, life and everything. You know, my dad taught me everything is relative.

So somebody said, Oh, that's too much money, that's too much this. Well, that could be for them because everything is relative. So it just kind of keeps me um grounded, obviously, my faith. Um, and then, you know, I tell you, most recently it's been Robin.

Um, you know, she and I are both Aries. Um, where I've come to find out since we've signed up 15, 16 months ago. Um, I love her energy. I love her direct style.

Um, that's very much a mirror of who I am. And so um, you know, when I have I can have a five-minute conversation with her, listen to her talk for five minutes, and I I draw off that energy as a team player. So even though I don't necessarily agree with everything that she says, and she'll probably be devastated to hear that, um, but um, but just the energy and just the the drive of I am not going to fail. You know, I was not going to fail starting this business in the middle of recession with my kids watching me.

I just wasn't. And so that was never a there was never a doubt in my mind. My wife, panic, abject panic. You're gonna do what?

She's gotten your panic. You don't even know. Yeah, oh, she she absolutely did. She said, Are you crazy?

And I'm like, honey, you know, trust me. You just gotta trust me on this. We're gonna be okay. Um, so um, so yeah, so I wish I could give uh, you know, again, the I guess the best business book would be the Bible.

Um, and then uh, like I said, just some really good mentors along the way. Yeah. Okay. You've been dropping some great little tidbits of advice and and dropping little, you know, cookie crumbs for for our listeners here and there for those wanting to kind of cross that million dollar mark.

But if you could you could leave our our friends, our audience, you know, our MSP community with maybe one piece of advice, uh, if they're looking to make it over that hurdle, what would it be? Um, I watched a podcast not too long ago that said that you are responsible for everything in your life. So it's your fault, basically. If you're successful, it's your fault.

If you're not successful, it's your fault. If you have enough leads, that's your fault. If you don't have enough leads, that's your fault. So um, when you are the owner of a small business, you you are responsible.

And there are so many people who do this that want to try and blame factors, economy, other things for their success or failure when at the end of the day, ultimately it's you. Um, so if you are responsible for everything in your life, so it's your fault, basically. If you're successful, it's your fault. If you're not successful, it's your fault.

If you have enough leads, that's your fault. If you don't have enough leads, that's your fault. So um, when you are the owner of a small business, you it you are responsible. And there are so many people who do this that want to try and blame factors, economy, other things for their success or failure when at the end of the day, ultimately it's you to do.

Um, but if you can do it, that's when um growing, uh I find happens exponentially when people just stop looking behind them and blaming everybody else and taking responsibility and and looking forward. So that would be my advice is yeah, extreme ownership, right? Yep. Yeah, I mean, who go back to Randy Jackson from American Idol back in the day, you have to be in it to win it.

Yeah. And if you because I and I was the same way with my wife. Uh, sorry, one last thing is you know, when we were dating, I said, Hey, listen, my parents were divorced, divorce is not an option for me. If if you think divorce is an option, you're not the right girl for me.

And she just looked at me and she says, What do you mean? I said, I mean, I don't care if it's counseling, whatever. The only way out of our marriage, if we get married, the only way out's in a body bag. You or me.

And she kind of looked at me, I said, I'm serious, because if you go in thinking that divorce is an option, then divorce will be the result. If you go in thinking we're gonna fight through everything together through this, and that's the mindset going in. I mean, so now we're 37 years in, and it's you know, there have been times, you know, with the kids, with all the moves, you know, she was by herself a lot. I traveled, I lived in Hong Kong for six months.

We started this business from scratch in the recession, right? I mean, there's a lot of adversity to overcome, but we're still together because that was the mindset going in. So I've talked to business owners that are looking at opening a small opening an MSP, and they're like, Yeah, I said I'll give it two or three years, and if that doesn't work, I'll go do something else. I'm like, well, then don't do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Just don't why why? Why put yourself through that?

Because if you're not fully committed, where you're not willing to eat beans and weenies to get over that hump that you need to get over, if you're not willing to tell your kid no to the free pony or whatever they want when you have to put it in the business, if you're not willing to make those sacrifices, then you're not in it to win it. So but that's why small business ownership is hard because a lot of people aren't willing to make those sacrifices and those hard decisions.

Yeah. I mean, great piece of advice, you know, leave our listeners with. If if you're set, if you're, you know, saying that to yourself, oh, I'll give it a couple years and see if I can make it work, cut it out. Don't say that ever again.

Ever again. Yeah. Switch it to the I am and I will. Yep.

Yep. Awesome. Well, Doug, this has been amazing. I loved hearing about kind of the different story of how you got into IT and some great advice, not only just for people who are under that million dollar mark, you know, for MSPs of all sizes.

Um, I really appreciate you being here. Um, I'm sure I'll see you at an event soon. Um maybe upcoming DatoCon, perhaps. I will be at DadoCon over 10 days.

Yes, that's it. I'll see you in a week and a half at DadoCon. And anybody else who's listening, come and find me. I'm trying to come and find Doug.

I'm sure he'd love to chat with you too. Um, but until next time, uh, you know, hang tight for the next My First Million podcast episode where we're, you know, pulling back the curtains and getting all the juicy tidbits on how to make it past that first million. Doug, thank you so much again, and I'll see you soon. Thanks, Allison.

I appreciate it. See you at Better Your Best Finals.