My First Million Podcast Ep 21 | Navigating the Hard Lessons While Building a Thriving MSP

Speaker A: Where do you want techbound to be? You know, let's say in the next

Speaker B: five years, easy five years already is to have a foothold in the legal space. So then we have law firms, law enforcement and I always joke with my, with my team now we need the judges, law enforcing and legal.

Speaker C: Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: And then we have a you don't come mess with me now. One book really good that actually made me to be able to recover $10,000 was never uh, split the difference by Chris Boss. Also stoic philosophy one Our main fear is to lose a client because they're very difficult to get one. Don't worry about the things that are not under your control.

Speaker A: Hello everyone. Welcome to our next episode of My First Million from MSP Success podcast. Um, Allison Felber here, VP at Kaseya. Ah, and MSP Success. I have got my friend Oscar Diaz from techbound Technologies on with me today to talk about his first million and what got him there. We talked uh, for a couple minutes before we hit the record. You know, the, some of the stumbling blocks too that he maybe uh, fell, fell over the sideways, uh, you know, rotes routes he might have taken or to get to his first million so that you can learn from them and maybe not make those same mistakes. But he's got a really interesting story and so um, it's, you know, it's going to be a really great podcast for you guys. So Oscar, if you want to give our listeners a quick little intro, who you are, your company, kind of how long you've been around, if you have any specializations or verticals and let them get to know you a little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure, no. Uh, first of all, thank you for having me on and had this opportunity to share a little bit about my story. I'm originally from Venezuela. Uh, I moved to Calgary, to Canada in 2011 and uh, my background is in enterprise, uh, information technology. I used to work in a big telecommunication company back in Venezuela and I worked there for 10 years and that's where I created all my know how and experience in how to approach it so well. So I moved to 2011, um, I started working as a contractor and then I saw that there was a, ah, gap there in the way that uh, IT services were delivered to small businesses, uh, in a sense that they have similar problems as enterprise, uh, but obviously uh, on a smaller scale. But the IT providers at the time, uh, uh, they were not, they basically they were approaching more to fix a problem and just move on to the next issue instead of just Sitting down with their clients, with the customers to understand what's going on and what the PC problem is and how to help to move on.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And um, get better results and uh, that's the way that is done in enterprise. Just to understand what the business needs are and then take it from there. So I incorporated uh, takedown uh around that time 2011, 2012 uh and start providing just regular MSP services, server, uh support, help desk support, on site support, uh uh and probably we did it for well I did it because it was just me and one other person for a few years. Then uh, in 2017 my partner at the time he decided to retire and um, he decided to move on to other challenges and then I bought his part and then 2017 is when actually uh I started thinking about uh how to grow techbound. Right. So uh, obviously I didn't have an idea on how to do it as uh everybody else in the industry where I'm really good at it, technical challenges but not on how to grow the business. So I crossed my path with uh, TMT, um 2019, um just right before COVID and uh, that's when I start basically uh working towards growing my company. I hire my marketing manager, we're starting hiring people and now uh a few years now, uh, now here we are around 20 people uh intake bound. We are servicing uh, uh companies uh and small businesses across Canada coast to coast to coast uh providing uh, uh high quality uh information technology services, cybersecurity. Now we obviously were digging into AI and uh, other areas as well that our clients are asking us to serve and we have small footprints in Latin America uh and potentially the next few years we're going to start going down south and expand to the United States and hopefully we'll do it in the next few years. But uh, that's basically what we do so far. We specialize with first nations police services, law enforcement. So we chose that niche uh years ago and it took us a while for uh sounds uh, short but it took us several years to actually get to a point where we are uh well known uh, in the community. Uh but anyway so we specialize on that in cybersecurity and now we're working to focus more in other industries like law firms. But also we have clients in different industries so that we serve in manufacturing, consulting, you name it. So yeah that's basically pretty much just

Speaker A: uh, six, seven years going from just two of you to more than 20 and international now as well down in uh Latin America. That's crazy. That's insane. I've got a question. So what prompted the move from Venezuela to Canada?

Speaker B: Well, so it was, I mean to be transparent with you, it was two things. One the uh, I would say three things. Uh, I always wanted to live abroad. Um, believe it or not, Since I was 15 years old I wanted to move to Canada with my, at the time my girlfriend, she's my wife. But uh, even we tried to move here by studying here in Canada but we couldn't do it. And that was always in my mind. Then the second thing that happened is the political unrest situation in Venezuela. Uh, when I left it wasn't as bad but uh, you can start seeing how everything was deteriorating. And then at the time I had my two daughters. Uh, they were, I think they're going to kill me. I think they were 9 and 7 or 9 or 8 and 6. So my thought was okay, eventually they're going to become teenagers. They wanted to do their own things, go outside, go to a mall, that kind of thing that teenagers do. And then they will start growing as well and they want to also get their own life. And uh, uh, uh, my thought was well Venezuela was in the right place for that. So then my sister in law moved here and that's when my wife at the end, she decided to. Okay, now we can move. Okay, perfect. Now we have the green light to move.

Speaker A: And what was it like, you know, um, those first early years, you know, of your MSP being, you know, at that point, you know, a newer country, a new life, you know, bringing your kids, starting this business. Like what was it like those first couple years?

Speaker B: They were challenging, interested because well, just as a, well uh, as an immigrant. So you, when you move to another place, another country. Um, at least in our case we didn't move with a lot of money. We don't have that many resources so there was a priority for us to get something going. Um, uh, at the time when I moved to Canada, Canada, I don't know if they, it's still in place or not but there was something called federal skilled worker program where Canada was looking for particular people with particular set of skills in order to giving a uh, permanent uh, residency in the country. So uh, at that time was it management.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So I applied, I got my visa anyway so. But I couldn't be a manager in a country that I had never do anything. So I had to go back from, to zero to basically be a technician. So I was able to get contracts and get that thing going. And uh, I watched Ali at the beginning but Then started to basically

Speaker A: um,

Speaker B: getting, uh, to getting traction. And um, then uh, because I was doing a good job, then I started getting referrals and then I hired my first person and then from there we was basically then looking for an accountant, looking for a bookkeeper, looking for banking. So it was challenging because of it. Right. Because everything was new to me. Uh, tech bounce, believe it or not, is my first endeavor. So as a business owner back in Venezuela was just an employee in a big corporation. So it was everything new. What challenging and has been a uh, steep uh, learning curve. Uh, that I've been, I still am learning on all this. But uh, long story short, was very challenging for. Not just for, because of the technical position and language barrier, but also everything that comes with managing uh, a business.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. New country. Yeah, the language. Starting a new business. I mean a business in and of itself is, you know, challenging enough and then you layer on all those different things and your family being somewhere new as well. I can imagine it was probably pretty stressful at points.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker B: And um, yeah, it is a completely new thing for. Yeah. But I mean it's rewarding at the end. Once you start working, you say, okay, why I didn't do this before. Right. Why did it take so long for me to make this decision?

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah. So my first million, um, about how long did it take you to get to that million dollar revenue mark?

Speaker B: Uh, once we start doing seriously 2018, 2019 probably took us a year. So by 2020 we were in the $1 million mark a year.

Speaker A: That's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What were some of the things that you feel like really helped you get over that million dollar mark or get to it?

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Speaker B: Uh, let me think for a moment. So it's not just one thing. There are a few things that I can say. One is that, well, for starters, uh, we start putting attention to marketing, to marketing the company, to marketing the service, uh, to start finding uh, ways to get leads, uh, beyond just uh, asking for referrals because ones don't do it for whatever reason. So we don't. Yeah, I mean, I guess, uh, we are not wired to ask for referrals. Um, that was marketing for sure. The other thing was just to start working on having good relationship with our uh, vendors, our suppliers, um, uh, because that's very, very important to have a really, really good relationship with your key partners, uh, in order to get better pricing and get other type of supports and uh, also keep uh, an eye on everything that has to do with costs, believe it or not, bank fees and um, taxes. Right. So uh, if you keeping everything on that online, so then uh, I'll help you to get to that point as quickly uh, as possible and something as a business owner as well, that is very, very difficult. Uh, uh, at least for me, I don't know everybody is in the someone else in the same camp. But start working to delegate tasks, uh, because you cannot do everything. And that's when I hire my marketing manager that she's still working with me, um, and dealing with me because not easy, um, but just delegating is very important because uh, once you start delegating, uh, certain things, then you can start focusing on the business and start working towards creating those uh, partnerships, alliances and find opportunities to got time to talk to your client, your current clients and learn from what they have to say about your services, to see how you can grow and also to listen what they say. Because I do remember that um, one uh, client that I was speaking with that um, that he, he told me it is okay, everything is okay. I don't have any complaint about it. Meaning servers, network, help desk, that's fine. Where I have problem with that's what he told me is in this X, Y and Z business problems. So then I said, oh, I have an opportunity there. I'm going to help them to fix those, uh, business problems. But the only way to do that, to have that chance to listen to your clients, you need to delegate and make the time for you to be able to get to that point.

Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely don't think you're alone in that. We've been doing this podcast for a while, and, and it always comes up of getting to that point to where it's like, you're not going to be able to grow unless you start delegating, unless you start hiring, unless you start cross training. Um, and so usually after that, one of my questions is, okay, so what was your first hire? And you mentioned it was a marketing person. Is that what you said?

Speaker B: Well, no, my first hire was, uh, another tech person. And, um, probably the third person that I hired. The second person that I hired was my marketing manager. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So it took me a while to convince her because I had to, I had, I had her to, uh, to quit her job and say, come on, please. I even have to, I think I had to beg and ask her to come over with me. So, yeah, that would be my. Yeah, she's still enduring this.

Speaker A: Yeah, but that's really smart. You know, I, you know, I ask people a lot of times, you know, what's something, if you go back and change, what would you do differently? And a lot of the people say, I would have hired a marketing person earlier, I should have hired a marketing person sooner and delegated that and had someone focused on it. And so to have that, um, knowledge and insight early on, for you to invest in a marketing person so soon, I'm sure contributed to your rapid growth.

Speaker B: Yeah. And believe it or not, when I was speaking with new vendors, uh, for example, because we're now focusing and trying to build that knowledge in the legal space, we're getting in touch with software providers or software vendors in the legal space. Ah. At some point you have the conversation to see how we can help, how we can work to implement their software. Speaking technical part. Then, uh, at some point in the conversation, just like, let's just ask, just in case they say, do you have a marketing team? Yeah, I do that. We put a lot of effort in that marketing. And the guys say, oh, sure, that's not common in it, in an IT company, that there is a marketing company, that you have a marketing department. Uh, but that's something that I put a lot of effort and my team put a lot of effort to make sure that we're doing everything that we can, uh, in the marketing space. And uh, uh, also that is that we have return because, um, uh, the way the things that we do in terms of marketing, we try a lot of things and um, a lot of them don't work. And then we need to know where to stop and when to stop. Otherwise we're just draining resources and how to basically try something different. But at the end, you need to put some money there, uh, in order to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Speaker A: Yeah, marketing. Everything's a test, right? Yeah. So, you know, speaking of what works and what doesn't work for you, you know, in your space, in your location and your vertical for what you do, has there been, you know, one or two marketing things that have really, really been stellar and helped you grow?

Speaker B: Yeah. So one of them is with, uh, uh, just showing up. That's one of the things, uh, that's important because, uh, I. My first. And then let me just. Basically, this is what I mean by that. So is that, uh, we took really, really serious to focus on one particular niche. Right. And the reason that we focus on that niche is because our first client in the niche, um, they gave us the opportunity to work with them. Uh, someone has to give him the opportunity. And I asked them, okay, so why you decided to go with us? And he said, because you were the only one who actually came. I was the only one, yeah. Perfect.

Speaker A: Thanks.

Speaker B: I think, yeah, that was the only reason. So. And then I start proving that, yes, we are, uh, we're able to take on the challenge because there are very specific things related to that today, to this particular industry, which is law enforcement, that now everybody knows. Uh, and then after that I started doing something that we, as a technicians or technology people don't like, which is just basically putting yourself in front of people, going to the events, uh, speak on the events, mingle with people. I don't like that. It's not natural to me, but I have to do it. And then I had to get out of my comfort zone. So essentially it's just showing up to the events, going to the events, speaking on the events. Uh, that's very, very important. That's what actually help us to get the word out, to get people to know us, actually to get people to trust us as well. Because this is a trusting business that for sure has worked. It's not easy. It doesn't happen overnight. It took a year to get to the point where we at, uh, but we finally is working, uh, for us the other thing that is working for us as well, believe it or not, is uh, Google Reviews.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And now I work on our uh, webpage where uh, um, my marketing manager and her team, they're really working really hard with the SEO. And uh, yeah, we got really uh, good. Once they start doing that, uh, we start getting really good leads. I mean just, it's more transactional. Uh, we probably have got a few uh, clients like uh, MRR clients from there, but it's more transactional. But it still helped. I think last year we sold like $50,000 just for a few leads that came through the website. Uh, and people find us, they find us because of the SEO and the Google Reviews.

Speaker A: Yeah, Google Reviews are so important when it comes to SEO today. And so the more you can do to fuel those and get those and constantly be adding them, I mean it's just massive. Um, so kudos to your team for that. And you know, sometimes you know, the people who are searching, you know, immediately for you know, it support it is because they have an urgent problem. It's not usually like, oh, I'm shopping for a new vendor that I'm going to spend money with every single month. There's it is more of like a break fix, immediate project. But those can turn into you know, the, the relationship starter for a more long term relationship. Even if it's when their contract renews a year from now, two years from now, like they'll remember, you know, who helped them.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.

Speaker A: Yeah. So is there, is there ah, you know we talked about stumbling blocks at the very beginning. Is there something somewhere where you stumbled or a uh, mistake that you made that really taught you the most at the beginning?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there is one but it's difficult to implement. And which is this at ah, the very beginning. Once you, when you're, when you're starting all the business so you don't have any revenue, you need to try to get everything your way. Uh, anything that basically has a heartbeat that do it. And probably it's okay at the beginning. Right. But then you have to realize when to say no. Um, so because otherwise you're gonna, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get the quality clients that you need. So we, we, at the very beginning we decided to work in this particular, uh, we decided to work in a particular industry because. Out of need, because we need a revenue. But it was really hard uh, to work with them, uh, because of the culture of the industry. It's not the same as the ones that uh, were used to deal with, they don't like to invest, ah, in technology. The fact is that particular industry, they only make uh, probably 10 cents in the dollar. So they don't make much money and therefore they are very costly.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And then technology is not, we have to do it. And um, we had to suffer for years with that. And then when we learned what we learned, ah, we get to a point we have to fire those clients and those industries and we made the intentional decision to not work on that particular niche. Even today we receive call from companies in that niche and we tell them no. Even if we want to get clients, we say no, we are not going to work with you guys because, uh, I know for sure how difficult the situation could become. I think that thing that I learned over the years is just to say no because uh, it's not saying no to the opportunity, it's just saying uh, yes to the time that you are not losing to those clients that are not a good fit for your company. Foreign

Speaker A: if you're an MSP looking to grow your business, get more clients and stay on top of industry trends, then you need to be a part of MSP success. When you subscribe for free, you will get first access to industry news to stay in the know growth strategies to push ahead of your competition and trends so you don't get left behind. Plus the option to get our print magazine mailed to you for free for a year. You'll also receive weekly emails with news, tips and hacks from industry experts, invites to live tech demos from top vendors, and access to exclusive virtual events where you will learn actionable strategies to grow your business. Visit mspsuccess.com to subscribe for free. Yeah, so now you said you're kind of starting to focus a little bit more on legal. Um, why that choice in that niche?

Speaker B: It's the same thing with law enforcement. And in terms of what I have seen so far, okay, is with the MSPs servicing, uh, that particular niche, they focus only on IT licensing, fixing a server, fixing a printer, that kind of thing. That's not important for the legal firm. I mean it is, but it's not key. What is key is to help them to get the most out of the legal software. That's one thing which is very expensive. The second thing is how we can help them to be better in terms of, uh, getting improvements, uh, efficiencies. Right. And how we help them, especially nowadays that everybody's talking about AI, uh, and legal is one of those Targets right now where a lot of things can be automated is how they navigate that in a way that actually makes sense and secure. So. And that's the opportunity that we're seeing there. So we're still developing the skills to get to the point where we say that the same, the same level that we are with law enforcement and to focus. Yes, uh, we do the regular IT that everybody does, but we do all these kind of things additionally, ah, on top of it, that actually brings value to the firm.

Speaker A: Yeah. You mentioned AI for law firms. What are some ways that you're seeing opportunity for law firms to utilize AI to make them more efficient, enable them to do more with less, uh, work faster, whatever it may be, Bill, more time.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm a little bit contrarian with that because for me, the way I see it, I hope I don't get in trouble. But uh, the way I see it is that for me AI is another tool in enterprise IT information technology. The way that we approach to a problem, just sit down with the client, understand what their problem is. Because usually it's a business problem. They're trying to get uh, efficiency or try to sell more or try to provide a better customer service, something around those lines. It's not technology related, it's just business problem. So let's sit down, let's understand what the problem is, what the outcome is that you want the is desired. How are we going to measure the success of that? Once we understand all that, then we're looking to see if AI could be a good tool to fix that particular problem. That's the way we see it. Yeah, you have ChatGPT, you have Gemini, copilot, you name it. Even there are specific uh, uh, for legal firms obviously the easiest one that seems to be the one that can be applied to legal is the research. But the uh, paralegals uh, do uh, um, uh, looking for reference, looking for um, previous cases. That's basically what they can do also to summarize a document. But still, uh, the way that uh, when we talk to our clients about that is that okay, don't go crazy, implement any, let's say copilot. Because when to implement copilot in the right way, you need to implement data loss prevention. And then because we have to make sure the copilot doesn't show to uh, the system what the payroll is. Right. And also we need to determine the risk. So how we're going to uh, mitigate the risk of prone injection. So we went to defcon, uh, last year. That's A big cybersecurity conference in Vegas and the Westerview researchers, uh, there that show us how they were able to control a house by sending, uh, a calendar invite to a Google account that is using Gemini. Through a Google account, they control a house. They were able to take over the house. It was crazy. Everybody was saying, wow, that's what I say. We have to be careful. We cannot just use AI for the sake of using AI. But long story short, that's the way that we approach it to understand what the actual problem is and once we understand and see if AI is going to be a good tool for it. Uh, but the obvious cases in legal is just research looking precedents, summarizing documents, that kind of thing. But always had to be someone in the loop, actual human, to confirm that the information that you're getting, the AI makes sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know there was, I think a couple months ago or something, a case in the US where, you know, it made it all the way to the Supreme Court and it was referencing, you know, a, uh, previous case that had never even existed because they had used AI to write the brief. I was just like, oh, my gosh.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It is so crazy and make things up so easily.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But I think, yeah, I think for legal is probably. It's going to be a little bit easier because the narrow the domain where the AR is applied.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The better.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: It's not that general. Hm.

Speaker A: Yeah. When I worked at a msp, our focus was law firms. We had a couple outside clients, but it was almost exclusively law firms. And they're, uh, they're a fun group to work with once you get in, you know, it's. It's a lot of word of mouth.

Speaker B: Yeah, it is indeed. Yes, yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so is there has there been one, you know, one book or one podcast or one course or, you know, some sort of outside educational resource that has really been super impactful in your growth?

Speaker B: Yeah, there are actually several of them. Uh, one book really good that actually, uh, made me to be able to recover $10,000 is, was, uh, um, Never Split the Difference by Chris Boss. It's really good. I always read it. I read a. I don't know, a few times. Several times, actually. That's really good. Uh, also I read and I have read and I read every time that I can. Uh, is, um, Stoic philosophy, Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Sino, those guys. Because, I mean, for us in the MSP world, I will speak with their msb. One of our main focus is to get clients one. Our main fear is to lose a client because they're very difficult to get one. So. And then if you focus on losing a client, you're going to never. You will never have a good night sleep. So then it's important to. For me at least, is to learn from those guys that basically one of the things they teach is, I mean, work. Don't worry about the things that not. Are not under your control. So it is what it is.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Uh, another thing. So yeah, yeah. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't happen, one of the things is that why. I mean, why. So people. People who live in the past, if I think it's a way that it goes. The people who live in the past have depression. People who live in the future have anxiety. So you have to live in the present.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So. And that's, uh, the way that you'll be able to move on otherwise or to function. And, uh, you have to live in the present, enjoy the pressing and think of the pressing. All the things that you have. So that has been very important, uh, as well. Uh, um, and I read a lot about. There are really good books from,

Speaker A: uh.

Speaker B: His name is. Oh, shoot, I don't remember his name right now, but the writer of a. The Love of Human Nature, the Love of Power, the Loss of Power. And, um, they're mastering. So they have several books like that. So basically it goes to, uh, the Human Nature and how people work and deal. So it's important because then once you're speaking with someone, one, uh, I'm trying to sell something. Uh, you know, why people do the way, uh, behave. The way they behave. One of the things that I remember about it is that about the. Those I don't remember the books. Jesus. But anyway, one of the things we'll

Speaker A: put it in the show notes.

Speaker B: Yeah. Is that never over. Like, never overshadow your boss. So try to be. Help your boss, but never try to be on top of your boss because not be your clients or they're contacting your client because then you're gonna get in trouble. So that's. Those type of things. So. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I love it. Yeah. I had a mentor one time, going back to, you know, thinking about the future and the past and all of that. I had a mentor one time, say, Alison, keep your head where your feet are. I always remember that when I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, keep my head where my feet are. So, uh, you know, lots of. Lots of great pieces of advice, you know, in those things. I Want to. My final question is kind of a two part question. Um, what's some of the best advice, you know, that you've gotten? And then on conversely, what's a terrible piece of advice that you got?

Speaker B: Yeah, so the, the best advice that I ever got was from my mentor and believe it or not, the worst one was from uh, someone in the government here in Canada or part of one of those organizations that belong to the government. So the best advice was make sure to have a good uh, bookkeeper, a good accountant and a good lawyer. I learned the hard way why that cost me around probably $250,000. Not following that. And the uh, interesting thing about that, when I went back to my mentor and I told him what happened and he just basically smiled like told you so. But uh, uh, that was the best piece of advice. So if I were going to start over again, I will make sure that I have a good bookkeeper, a good lawyer and a good accountant for sure. It will be, it's going to be expensive at uh, the beginning, but it's going to save a lot of money in the long run. Yeah, uh, the bad advice, I didn't, I didn't follow that advice, but it was really bad. There was uh, at some point, one of the pain that you have when you're growing is that when you start outgrowing your, your bank because at some point I don't know if you have a, ah, a monthly expenditure of $15,000 and all of a sudden jumped to $10,000 or $500,000, they panic and they basically got everything and say, what's going on here? We went through, that's uh, Crunchtein with banks with cash flow. And then I approached to a, here in Canada that is designed to promote, to help small businesses. And I went there and they, and basically what they were willing to do was just to loan money, I don't know, just to give you an idea to give you $1 million and a uh, fixed term with a very high interest rate.

Speaker A: Oh gosh. Okay.

Speaker B: I said why? And then the guys told me you have to get used to debt or be comfortable to have debt. No, that's a really bad advice.

Speaker A: No, I will never be comfortable with that.

Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no. So I mean if you're gonna have that, it's because something that makes sense, not because you have to be comfortable. No, I think that was a terrible advice.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, good, good advice and bad advice. You know, you gotta be able to weed through it. Right. So you know, now we're thinking about the future, not in an anxious way, but just business planning. You know, where do you see techbound going? Where do you want techbound to be? You know, let's say in the next

Speaker B: five years, easy, five years already is to have, is to improve our footprint in Canada. So we're already providing services across the country, uh, but we need to have uh, a more probably a stronger presence in the Canadian market, uh, across the country. That's very important. And also to have our food a foothold in the legal space. So then we have law firms, law enforcement and I always joke with my, with my team now we need the judges and legal.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then we have. You don't, can't mess with me now. But to have uh, that very, very strong presence in the legal firms the next uh, five years and also is to, I don't know if it's going to be in five years or less or more, but start looking into how we expand the operation south. Because I think that's a natural progression for techbound, uh, uh, for uh, the company to grow, uh, uh, in the United States. So we have started doing Latin America little by little. It's a completely different market, It's a completely different animal. They were completely different that uh, here in North America. But that would be the next step for us.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, um, seeing how much you grew, you know, just from when you started really investing in the business in 2019 until now, I have no doubt that in five years you will rule the world.

Speaker B: But funny enough, I gotta tell this uh, story that happened in 2019. Um, yeah, I pretty much, to be honest, I just basically was just giving up on the thing and grow the company. And it was a weekend and I was sitting on my couch and I saw uh, one of the very, very old uh, Robin Robbins video explaining how to grow the company. Whatever. Then I saw that I called uh, tmt, I spoke with Aaron and I told Eric, Aaron, this sounds kind of, uh, I'm not 100% sure about. Anyway, so we get along with that. And then I went to my wife and say, hey, you remember the floor that you wanted? Yes. What about if we do this? And then she said, yeah, let's do it. Let's give it a try. Okay, perfect. Believe it or not, before that I remember I paid $20,000 US which is for Canada is like uh, $100,000. No, that's not that much. But it's like a 20,000. It's way more. Right. So. But that's the first thing ever that I put so much money in marketing. That was in 2019. But the funny thing is that I had to go to my wife and say, convince her first to just go through this and she was okay at the time. So she was good with it.

Speaker A: Supportive. Supportive, right?

Speaker B: She was supportive.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, Oscar, thank you so much for your time today. Such fun and interesting stories. Great pieces of advice for someone at any stage in their business, whether they're chasing that million dollar mark or they've already made it across. Um, I just really appreciate your time today.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me on. I really love the conversation.

Speaker A: Yeah. And uh, for the listeners out there, we're always coming out with more episodes so stay, stay tuned for another episode of My first million. But Oscar, thank you for sharing with us about your first million and your journey to get there today.

Speaker B: Anytime, anytime.

Speaker A: All right. Thank you.