Beyond The Pizza Party: What a Healthy Workplace Really Looks Like

What if your workplace well being program is actually making it harder for people to tell the truth? And what if that just stay positive. Saying that you have maybe somewhere posted in your office has become a cultural rule that actually silences the real issues. Today we're going to ask a direct question. How do we build workplaces that are both high performing and deeply human without reducing well being to perks and without lowering our standards in the name of safety? Welcome to Mindful Management where we practice healing centered leadership you get to use today. I'm your host, Shenandoah Shuffalo and I cannot wait to introduce you to today's guest. She fell into my lap on LinkedIn just out of the blue. I found her and her organization and I love when that happens. I've been looking forward to this conversation today. Please welcome Chase Sterling. She is a leading expert in workplace well being with more than two decades of experience across hr, occupational health and organizational strategy. She's also the founder and executive Director of well Being Think Tank, a nonprofit advancing evidence based education that helps workplaces move from surface level wellness to measurable. Hear me out there data lovers. Measurable culture level change. Her background includes leadership roles at Google, cigna, the Wounded Warrior Project, and the University of Dayton with a research published in the American Journal of Health Promotion. She has also contributed to Harvard's Flourishing at Work program. She serves on the business and industry sector team for the US National Physical Activity Plan. And Chase is maybe best known for blending science, storytelling and humor to make direct, practical and grounded in evidence so that all of us can use it every day. She also happens to be a U.S. army veteran, a stroke survivor with lived experience and invisible disabilities. So she brings both expertise and reality to conversations about stress, burnout and sustainable performance. Welcome to Mindful Management, a podcast by Chefalo Consulting where we share the knowledge, stories and resources you need to create a trauma informed culture that supports wellness, growth and resilience. I'm your host, Shenandoah Scheffalo. Chase, I am so grateful for your work. I am so grateful that I found you and we're really glad to welcome you to Mindful Management. Thank you so much Shenandoah. One of the things that I always like to start with my guest and because I think it's so important to well being overall in general, which is people's origin stories because nobody looked in the college handbook and said I'm going to be a well being expert. I mean at least I haven't found that we don't have college students who are taking that as their major yet. So can you just tell us a little bit about your background and what kind of led you to move into the well being space? Sure. I really appreciate the question because I think we approach life and work through our own unique lens. We all have our own experiences that we carry with us. And I've been fortunate enough to use my background and all my personal experiences to create a nonprofit which I feel like is very aligned with my purpose. So I'm going to go way back. I'm going to go back to when I was a kiddo. So I actually grew up in and out of children's services. I did not have a good home life and I got emancipated as a teenager. I graduated a little early, but I actually shared this story last week at our summit. My first paycheck job was in an ice cream shack. It was like a mile walk from where I lived and I was 13 years old. Like child labor laws be damned. I was turning 14 that summer. So they said, come on in. And that was my first paycheck job. And I found so much in the workplace that I wasn't getting at home. So responsibility, a feeling that I was important, that I mattered, that I was contributing to something. I felt cared for as a human and as a worker. And it was a really great experience. And of course, work at its core is an exchange of labor for money. And that exchange allowed me to, you know, move out, be out on my own. I was working two full time jobs by the time I was 17. So I've always spent a lot of time in the workplace. And I will be the first to admit I am always working on my relationship with work. I know it's made me a little bit. I'm a recovering workaholic. I try to make sure I get a lot of these needs met outside of the workplaces. Well, but I like to share that because so many of us in the workplace, we're all just a bunch of bags of trauma. We're bringing our full experience with us to work every day. And I'm just passionate about workplaces that don't cause harm. So as I got older, I did get in kind of more into like individual health and well being. And I was very much on the physical fitness side and doing a lot of things in health and exercise science. And then I became disabled. So I had a botched surgery which turned into multiple surgeries. I've had 13 surgeries in my life so far. I have a 14th scheduled already. And you can't really tell by looking at me. But I have several disabilities. I just know how to kind of hide them well. But that created a lot of really unique experiences in the workplace on having sometimes visible and it doesn't even matter, but visible and invisible disabilities. Someone who comes to the workplace with complex post traumatic stress. But I still want to work and be a part of something. You know, we all carry these things. And after I developed my injury, I pivoted more into workplace wellbeing. And I'm a very curious person by nature. And so I'm always peeling the onion back and diving in more. And I've switched jobs a lot. I've moved in many different place places in the United States. So I just have this really well rounded work experience to look at work differently. I ended up getting my master's in IO psychology with a focus on occupational health. And then I have 50 zillion credentials and trainings and things. So I don't think this was like a linear answer at all. But my childhood really shaped my passion for working. And then as an adult, as I kept working, I have really great experiences from work. Of course, I have poor ones, we all have poor ones. But I want to focus on the good and I really want to focus on how we can transform workplaces. And I just think, imagine Shenandoah. Imagine a world where every day where we left work, we felt good. I was just having this conversation, Chase, where I said, you know, if you think about the amount of hours you spend at work, what if you didn't dread it? Yes. I find that to be such a challenge for people, especially people who have been in positions and jobs for a really lengthy amount of time, where they're like, nope, it can only be this thing. This is the way it's always been here. And it can never be something different. Yeah. And I think that's what makes this work so hard, is humans are a variable. Yeah. And we're all different. We all have different wants and needs. Something I've brought up in conversations before is I have no problem with transactional workplaces, because there are people who want a transactional workplace and they're like, I don't want anything from this job except a check. Of course. We don't want the job to cause harm, though at a bare minimum, workplaces should not cause harm. So we should have psychologically safe workplaces. No bullying. You know, you should be paid, not just a living wage, a thriving wage. But then that's on the onus of the workplace, of this is how we operate this is how we operate, so this is how we work. And then these types of people are going to do really well here because that's also what they want. We have to do the job we were asked to do, but the work also has a responsibility to pay us and do all the things they promised they would do. And it's a relationship. Yes. And yeah, at a bare minimum, workplaces should not cause harm. But imagine a world where work actually uplifted us and the ripple effect it would have on our relationships, on our communities and on society as a whole. When I was just doing research, Chase, I saw in several places quotes from you about, I'm probably going to misquote you, but the gist of it was like, when it comes to, well, being at work, all you need to do is everything. Yes, I see that all the time, because it's true. Everything in the workplace is impacting our health and well being. So it's not just benefits and programs which are very important, especially in the United States where many of us access our benefits through our employer. But it's the leadership, it's the physical environment, it's the policies. You know, are the policies applied equitably. It is the pay. You can't talk about well being without talking about wages. And we have, I think it's 56% of full time workers who don't make a living wage, which is a travesty. That shouldn't be something that's happening. So our relationship with work is very broken as a whole. It's not broken for everyone. It's not broken at every organization. Of course, there's so much nuance in these conversations. But we can make this relationship between work better and it's not. I don't think work is the problem because we've labored since the beginning of time. You know, we've all labored and contributed to our communities and to society. And no, it might not be in the same exact way. And it's cool if your work doesn't have to be your passion, but you know, maybe it just provides for you so you focus on your passion outside of the workplace. I just think this relationship with work, the contract has been broken for way too many people. But the problem really is Shannon Doe. The reason why I'm so passionate about it too is we have to have workplaces. The way our systems are currently designed is most people need to have an employer to access something like benefits. It's just the world we live in right now. And so how can we take the systems that we have and improve them. And yes, we might completely change them at some point, but that typically doesn't happen overnight. So how can we really work from the inside to make things better? So a lot of the leaders that'll be listening to this podcast are in governments, are in nonprofit, are community based. Right. They're in high pressure, do more with less positions. Like most of the people listening to this podcast aren't trying to make more widgets and increase bottom lines. They're trying to serve more people and deliver more services in a faster, more efficient way that makes sense for everybody while everyone's giving them less and less money to do it on a daily basis. So what tends to happen is that workplaces then look at well being as perks. Right? It's access to the Calm app. It's a free T shirt or sweatshirt. It's maybe a yoga class. Whether or not we give you time to take the yoga class is another side thing. It's the pizza party. And while I think both you and I will agree all really great, all super important, it's a yes. And for me, how do you define workplace well being in a way that leaders can start to think about operationalizing it instead of adding one more thing? I'm just so glad you you gave that example and use the yes and and we did that at our summit last week because I see a lot of discourse and siloing and divide in, in the workplace wellbeing community where I might see my psychologist friends say things like yoga classes are stupid or, or pizza parties are dumb. And I don't know about you, but I love pizza and I love free pizza even more. Yeah, pizza does not make up for low wages. It does not make up for a toxic work environment. I think workplace well being is first. It's organizations looking in the mirror. And I think that's our number one ethos at think tank is do no harm. So as an organization, your responsibility is to not cause harm to your workforce. And that means looking at everything, taking that step back. And it truly is operations. It starts with what are your core values? How do you live? Those core values are they applied to everyone. It's the policy work, literally the physical environment. I can't tell you how many workplaces I've gone to and people don't have access to clean drinking water. I don't know about you, I don't want to fill my water bottle up in the bathroom. So if you don't have access to, you know, clean drinking water, you're not hydrating through the day or if it's 45 minutes to the close. If you're in a rural America and you have to drive 45 minutes to a restaurant and you didn't pack your lunch, well, you're not eating all day and there's no food on site. So there's simple things like that. And then also management training again, corporate communication. So workplaces have to start there. You need to be a profitable organization, but you're going to be more profitable when you have a healthy workforce. Individuals, we have a personal responsibility to care for our own health and well being. Work is not there to parent us. But the workplace shouldn't be causing harm. And workplaces can provide individual support. So that's part of our logo is fix the system but support the individual. When I have had the opportunity to work with workplaces, it really is that deep, deep level systems work. Starting with things like mission, vision, values, looking at your policies, looking at the employee handbook, how do we recruit, how do we retain, how are we collecting data, how are we caring for our workforce? And there's that. I don't know who said it first, but there's that saying of your workplace culture is the worst behavior you tolerate. And it's true because it only takes one person to infect an entire workplace and make it a really miserable place to be. And you know, again, it's this contract. Organizations need profits. They're a business and we want them to have profits because we would like to get paid. Yeah, of course it benefits all of us. So I think we really have to do better at creating a new work social contract of this is what organizations provide and then this is what the workforce does. There's a couple of pieces there Chase, that we could dive down. And one of them is just what you said because I talk about this all the time because I talk about the generational differences in the workforce. Like for me, let me just be clear. I am super excited for young people to become the new leaders. Like I cannot wait. I am like pro young person. But what I see is the push back in the workforce often is young people don't want to work. Now I heard that when I was young. I'm sure you heard it when you were young. I think every generation says that about the next generation. And it's a really interesting thing because when I mirror that back to people and I say, okay, how many people in here are parents? Okay, how many of you, if we like surveyed your kids, they would say you're happy at work and if you're not happy at work, why would they want to join that workforce? So I think that's a really important piece that gets to the core of what we said in the beginning. Like, what if it wasn't miserable? What if we actually enjoyed going and then we didn't come home and complain about it for three hours every night? Right. And I totally agree with you, and I watch all the time how we spend hours and months and years coming up with mission, vision, values, but then we don't actually operationalize it and live it. And so I'm just wondering for you, especially for leaders who are like, we can't take on a new initiative, but we've got to address this issue, Are there some ideas or some tips that you can give them for, like, here's little things? Because I do believe it's these micro moments versus this one overall arching theme that really changes culture. Absolutely. Something I frequently tell people is we need to take inventory of everything. You already have. It's shocking to me how many organizations are paying and they're getting so many things from all their vendor partners. So whether it's from the benefit side, the program side, you know, what do you have access to, access to that you're not even utilizing. And that's a lot of the consulting work I'll do as well is taking this huge inventory of every partner they work with, whether it's a benefit or a program. And we want to know, what do you offer? How is it offered? You know, what's the cost of it? Is this baked into our agreement and then really creating that cohesive strategy? So we keep saying yes. And sometimes in the workplace, a lot of employers, I think, have done a good job of adding on benefits and perks, but they didn't do it strategically. Yeah, there's a huge difference between an intervention, a program, and a strategy. And then sometimes we'll have a strategy for a specific program or intervention, but it's not tied to an overarching organizational strategy. So I think we have to get really sophisticated and really think strategically. Then you have community partners, like, we're a nonprofit. Every time someone asks me for a very specific training, I'm like, did you know the county offers it for free? Like, sure, you can pay a facilitator to come in and do it, But, I mean, I'm all about saving money. I love free, and I love, you know, easier. Let's work less. As much as I like work, like, you know, I love efficiencies, too. And it could be something like our Mission vision, values. A few years ago I was working with an organization and Janet, I'll tell you, it was like 36 employees. But no one could tell me the mission vision values, including like the head. And we kind of giggled and everything. I said, hey, that's really normal. I was like, you know, don't feel bad. That's actually really normal. But now let's think about this differently. We have to stop being performative and doing things like care washing and wellness washing. Like you have to dive in and do that work. But when you are values aligned, when you say this is our core values guide our operations and this is how we make decisions and you stick to it even when it's really, really hard, that is truly how you succeed as an organization because you're going to attract the right kind of employees who are also values aligned. Values disconnect is one of the leading causes of stress and burnout in the workplace. So organizations need to get very clear on operations. I saw this in an organization several years ago where they got very clear and they happened to be healthcare Shenandoah and they had an external statement for their patients, but they didn't have an internal kind of thing. So we used that same statement. We made it internal, we talked about it, everyone signed it. It then became a part of the recruiting process of hey, at our organization we believe this and we operate like this. Is there any reason you'd be unable to perform your job duties knowing these things? And it really helped bring in like minded and values aligned new employees. And so whatever type of business you're in, whether you're serving the community, you're selling something, it's going to improve your customer or your community experience because then they understand who you are. And so from a business perspective it just makes sense. So I think doing workplace wellbeing, you have to understand there's this business part of it, there's the money part, there's the capitalism part, that's a reality. You know, the money has to come from somewhere. Yeah, Successful, healthy organization so we can all hopefully get some of that. But then it again, it's this relationship. So I would say start with what you already have and really take a hard look at how you're operating. Are those, is it equitable? Chase I love the idea of the taking inventory. The first question that popped into my mind is what is the role of stopping doing things? And my question is really based on this, is because one of the pushbacks I so often hear is like, yes, we get trauma informed, yes, we get Human centered. Yes, it sounds amazing, but we don't have time, right? Time is this elusive thing that lots of folks struggle with. And one of the things that I always say is, what are you doing right now? Like if you looked at your schedule for a week or a month, what could you stop doing? So I'm thinking about that when you say inventory, because it's not only, well, what are we already subscribed to, but what could we also just get rid of that nobody has utilized in the last 10 years? No, I love it. And no, it was part of our summit. So after our be well workshop, that was our closing question with start, stop, keep, you know, what do you need to start doing? What do you need to stop doing? What are you going to keep doing? And I think I've worked at organizations that did those as like quarterly check ins and they were getting kind of this micro pulse feedback from individuals. And I think those are very valuable questions to ask. And it does come down to change, which is incredibly hard for some people. But it's creating it to be the cultural norm. You can put certain things into place that become like, this is how we do things. So that can be really challenging for people. And obviously we have research that certain demographics are harmed more in workplaces through discrimination, harassment, bullying. And so they're always more comfortable off camera. But can we find a way where it's like, hey, we have all these meetings and we know that you're not super comfortable being on camera for this meeting. For our weekly team huddle, we would really, you know, we need you to be on camera for that because that's our time for team connection. But for the rest of them, like it's fine. So it's having these really hard human one on one conversations. And we have to be, we want to be accommodating, but we also have work to do and get the job done. And so it is this fine line of here's how much we can do and we really want it to work. And it's having these really human conversations to try to help provide accommodations, which I'm someone who needs accommodations, but we also need to make sure that we're meeting goals, we're getting things done. And that something like having your camera on can create some social wellbeing, it can create some connection, it can foster better understanding between individuals. And no, it doesn't need to happen all the time because maybe that person's like, oh, I feel judged or I feel this or I'm not comfortable or I don't Have a nice background. And I'll tell you why I'm so sensitive about it is I'll never forget, and I didn't realize how sensitive I was for a while, but I put this into a lot of my talks. Early in the pandemic, I joined a call and I was in a different apartment. It was actually smaller, but. And my coworker said, oh my gosh, is that your apartment? And I had my little laptop. And I was like, yeah, this is like, this is my whole apartment because it's a box. And they said, oh my God, how do you live like that? And everyone on that team, I happen to know, had a minimum of two homes because they all had vacation homes. And I was like, I have an in unit washer and dryer and a dishwasher and a balcony. This is the nicest place I've ever lived in. Yeah. But I felt so judged in that moment because I happen to rent, which works for me. And like, I'm very transient and nomadic, so I don't know if I'll ever buy a house, but I live in an apartment and that's just how I live. And I'm often single and I don't have kids. And it's like, yes, we're the same age or I'm older than you, but it's a different lifestyle and why did you need to say anything? And so it's just being mindful of things like that. How can we make you feel comfortable? Because we'd really like to be able to have a team meeting once a week where everyone is on camera. So how can we create a space for you where you feel safe, where you can participate, you know, just work with that person one on one. So we are being accommodating, but we still kind of have like the mission in mind and you might find some commonalities. And that's just human connection. And when we see each other as more than just a co worker, when we can see the humanity in each other, yes, we gain more empathy and understanding. And when our organization is there for us during a difficult time in our life, we're going to come back, we're going to be more loyal, we're going to want to do better work for them because they were supportive of us. As I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking about that idea of intentionality versus unintentionality. You're creating culture every day, whether you're the leader, whether you're the frontline staff person. Right. Like culture is being created both Intentionally and unintentionally, you have to be willing to give. Right? Like you can't have work, cannot look exactly the way you want it. There does have to be this give and take. And I think that's a really important piece that post pandemic. People just kind of want things their way and who cares about what everybody else needs from this communal space we're in? I really agree and it's hard because you have to prioritize yourself and your own boundaries and your own wellbeing. But it is this balance because there is this responsibility. And you know, I just treat people how I think they would want to be treated. And of course we started with the golden rule of treat people how you would want to be. And now it's the platinum rule of like asking them and be a little bit more intentional. But creating just spaces where belonging is the leading factor of well being. Like, research shows that we need to feel like we belong. So how do we create spaces where people do feel like they belong? And you can have differences. At our conference we had different colored lanyards and one said, you know, open to hugs but still ask first. And the other one said, I'm more of like, I like air fives better. Like I'm more of an ello bumper air, elbow bumper air five person. So that way you could just have a visual right away, you know, and respect those. Like developing a quiet area, asking people their dietary needs. It's not that hard to just be a decent human being. It just takes a little bit of time. You have to be willing to want to do the time. So I just want to get your take chase when we think about what that harm is by just saying, oh, I know it was a tough day, but tomorrow will be, you know, just stay positive and, and it'll all work out in the end. And never really addressing the elephant in the room as I'm kind of always talking about and pointing to the elephants behind me. What would you say to leaders instead of kind of falling back on those toxic positivity quips? Yeah, I'm like a realistic optimist, so I'm a very positive person. And I developed a whole workshop on toxic positivity last year. And it came from an experience at work where I had been having very bad months. I had had some significant health issues, things were going on in the world. I lost my 19 year old cat. Like I was having a rough go of it and I knew I wasn't in a great place, but I was coming into work every Day I was doing my job and I would just kind of come into my office. I happened to have an office with the door. So I'd come in and I would just kind of. I was like, I need to self select caving right now, which is not my norm. And my president noticed, which I appreciate, cared for me and said, hey, I've noticed you haven't really been yourself lately. You're kind of coming in your office. And we had really good psychological safety. I was opening up, I was like, well, this is going on, this is going on and this is going and this is going on. And then they said, well now Chase, if you were up on stage right now, what would you tell the audience? And I was just like, I tell them it's okay to be sad. I tell them it's okay to be anxious. Like it's okay to have normal emotions. I'd say it's okay to feel that way. The goal is not to stay there forever, but to process the emotions and work through it. But when people are uncomfortable, when someone's having a hard time, if I sit here and tell you, oh my gosh, and I had this surgery and this is hard, I have another surgery coming up that's going to make you feel uncomfortable. And so you're going to be like, yeah, but you know what, look at how well you healed. I bet you're going to heal well again. And. But maybe I'm anxious for that next surgery. Maybe that's what I'm communicating. So when someone is telling us something, we have to go internal because what's happened is we're uncomfortable with what they're saying, so we're trying to reframe it for them. And I'm guilty of this. We all are. We're all humans. We're all messed up and make mistakes and I fail every week, probably every day. But it's learning how to say, you know, how can I support you? You know, that sounds really challenging. Like, and I'll never Forget when my 19 year old cat died. I got flowers, I got cards. People were like, oh my gosh, like, da, da da. But I had a stroke on a Wednesday and went back to work on Monday and no one gave a shit, to be blunt. So I'm like. Because everyone could empathize with losing a pet, but a lot of people couldn't empathize with this significant health event where I literally like almost died and no one seemed to care. And yeah, obviously you can tell, like it didn't make me feel good. It's an interesting piece, Chase, because I talk about this a lot of the time about the reenactment triangle. In that many of us, I say, I'm a recovering fixer where like, oh yeah, you have a problem and here's how we can fix it. And I'm recovering. And for me it's like moving from that reenactment triangle into the empowerment triangle is how do you move from fixer to supporter? Which means how do you just get curious like, Chase, I don't know about strokes. Tell me what happened. What was that like for you? Right, like get curious, like, how do you get in tune with your four or five year old self of like, not even knowing what that means and asking questions and like, allowing then Chase to come to her own solution and being like, great, what does support look like for you? Do you need, instead of just saying, here's your problem, this is how we fix it. I am also a fixer, especially everyone else's problems. Oh, yeah, of course. Let me spend all day on yours, like, les, please give me your problems. Then I don't have to look in the mirror. Yes, please. My favorite thing to do. But I'll never forget a friend calling me out years ago and telling me, chase, sometimes when I call you, I just want to vent. I don't want your advice. And we had a conversation and I said, hey, how about I really care about you. They were much younger than me, so I kind of big sistered them. And I was like, when you tell me these things, I want to help, I want to support. So how about when we have a conversation kind of at the start, you tell me or I'll try to remember to ask, do you just want me to listen or do you want advice? And I use this in the workplace all the time of like. And I'll be like, hey, do you just want to vent? And do you just want me to listen or would you like me to say anything? Do you want me to offer support? I think in the workplace that's what a lot of people are asking. And so that's being a leader of when you're coming and asking a question. Shannon, that's such a great question. You know, what do you think we should do? Like, what are you thinking about doing? A lot of times they're asking kind of for permission. They want to bounce something off you. And so it's taking a few minutes to just listen and talk through the problem and help them get there on their own. And then offering guidance when you need to. So it's all about collaboration. And yeah, I think there's so many things we can do. Again, all you need to do is everything. I love that this is a good time to just pause for a moment and write down one maybe positivity phrase that you've heard at work this week. It's that thing that sounds encouraging, but maybe it shut you down or you watched it shut other people down in a team meeting. And I just want you to think for 1, 2, 3, 5 minutes and rewrite that sentence. Right. How could we have maybe asked a question instead of made a statement, which is something many people have heard me say numerous times. And then try it in your next meeting, see what happens, what changes, what shifts. Chase, it's been a pure joy having you on. Are you ready for fast round? The idea is the first thing that pops into your brain. Okay, I'll do that. And then yell at me if I. If I just tangent. Okay. I love it. What's a leadership practice you return to when things get loud or out of control? I'm a big fan of box breathing. Love it. What is a phrase you wish leaders would retire forever? Oh my God. Maybe just like, circle back. Oh, I love that. Circle back. What is a book podcast resource that you recommend for people trying to create healthier workplaces right now? Oh my gosh. Well, I recommend us. I recommend well being. And the reason why is that we bring in all these experts. So it's not us. We kind of say we're an aggregator of evidence based information. So we put on free events, free educational events. We have an amazing blog. So we put out a lot of things. So I would say that. And then a book I use a lot is BJ Fogg's Tiny Habits. I just think that's a great book. Like, I was working at Google when his BMAP theory came out and started really using that for a lot of different things. It's a whole behavior thing, but it really helps me learn how to be more concise and direct. And then we just had Paul Zak as our keynote. Paul's an amazing neuroscientist. He has an older book called the Trust Factor. He has more books on like, happiness and fulfillment. And it's, you know, how do we leverage neuroscience to really create cultures of well being? It's more in depth than that, but he's pretty amazing, so I'll just throw his name out there too. What gives you joy? Community. Complete this sentence. Well, being at work looks like belonging. And what if you had the magic ability to snap your fingers and you could implement a small practice in every workplace tomorrow. What would you choose? It's not a small practice, but every worker needs to be paid not just a living wage but a thriving wage. Chase, thank you so much for bringing rigor realness to this conversation. Here's what I'm taking away everyone well being isn't a perk. It's a business imperative that's rooted in systems, leadership, behaviors and measurement. Non toxic positivity makes room for truth and not silence. And psychological safety isn't about comfort. It's a culture where people can safely speak up and still be held to a high standard. Burnout Prevention is an organizational responsibility. Many of you have heard me say this before. You probably don't have a work problem. You probably have a nervous system problem. So to learn more about Chase's work or the well being think tank, we have linked resources in the show notes and if today's episode helped you, please follow Mindful Management. Leave a review, share it with a leader who maybe needs a win this week. Chase, any parting thoughts for our audience before we go? Oh, just I think we can all be leaders for well being. You don't have to have a title to be a leader in the workplace, and we're leading ourselves. So whether you work somewhere or you work for yourself, whatever you're doing, I think we all have the power to make things better. So be kind to one another. I love it. There's not a better place to stop. Until next time, take what you need, try something new and tell someone else. Thanks everyone. Mindful Management Creating a Trauma Informed Work Environment is brought to you by cheffalo Consulting. To learn more about Shuffalo Consulting and our Trauma informed change management and professional development Solutions, please visit cheffaloconsulting.com that's Cheffalo C H E F A L O consulting.com make sure you don't miss these transformative conversations by subscribing to Mindful Management wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening. And remember, change happens one step at a time.