Building Trust at Work Starts With Leadership | Ep. 98

1 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:16,320 SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Let's Think About It podcast, where 2 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,920 high achievers stop performing and start transforming. 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,559 I'm Coach Mo, certified core energy leadership coach, founder 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,079 of the Inner Arena, and creator of the SWAG framework. 5 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,880 Self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. 6 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,280 Around here, we train your mindset, challenge your limits, 7 00:00:37,359 --> 00:00:39,359 and turn pressure into purpose. 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,920 Subscribe now and join me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. 9 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:45,439 So let's get your reps in. 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,799 SPEAKER_00: We're going big, going big. 11 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,240 SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of the Let's Think About 12 00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:59,119 It podcast. 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,359 I'm your host, Coach Mo. 14 00:01:01,759 --> 00:01:04,000 And I'm here with another amazing guest. 15 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:07,120 And her name is Natalie Holder. 16 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:09,680 Natalie, how are you doing? 17 00:01:10,239 --> 00:01:11,200 I am well. 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,120 How are you, Coach Moe? 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,079 I'm doing great. 20 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:19,040 I want to read your intro, though, and let my audience know 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,200 about you and please elaborate. 22 00:01:21,359 --> 00:01:26,799 Natalie Holder is an employment lawyer who coaches professionals 23 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:29,760 through workplace trauma to reinvention. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,040 Whether you have concerns about job security or are fatigued by 25 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,480 being passed over, ignored, and underestimated at work, Natal 26 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,879 helps to reveal the unseen path to a more fulfilling and 27 00:01:44,879 --> 00:01:46,480 impactful future. 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,079 Natalie, welcome to the show. 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,640 SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me as your guest. 30 00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:53,840 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. 31 00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:55,920 Where are you checking in from? 32 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,239 SPEAKER_02: I am in sunny Maryland, Western Maryland, to 33 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:00,879 be exact. 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,239 SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is great. 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Born and raised there? 36 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:05,519 SPEAKER_02: No, not at all. 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,280 So I am originally from New York. 38 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,639 So I'm a good old northerner who decided to move south for things 39 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,159 that Maryland offers. 40 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:18,000 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:24,240 So tell us who you are, what you do, and the type of value that 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,120 you bring. 43 00:02:25,439 --> 00:02:27,840 SPEAKER_02: As you introduced me, I'm an employment lawyer. 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,960 However, let's dig down a little bit more into that. 45 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:37,199 So I am someone who always enjoyed helping people to craft 46 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:41,280 better workplace environments, whether it was the employee or 47 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:41,919 the employer. 48 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:45,599 If it was the employer helping them to really get to a space 49 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:47,680 where they were developing better policies, better 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,879 practices, providing the training that created the 51 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:54,879 expectation of really solid leadership for their people, for 52 00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:55,840 the employee. 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,960 It was being smart about understanding who and where you 54 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,199 can find your mentors and your sponsors. 55 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,560 Why are these people important in the framework of how you're 56 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,759 building your career and getting to a space of success? 57 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,800 Because once again, when you know where the path is and you 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,400 can find it, you get there much faster and you can traverse it 59 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280 much easily, much more easily. 60 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:20,800 Beyond that, I am someone who enjoys nature. 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,639 As I mentioned, I now live in Maryland and I am looking out my 62 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,000 window right now, my office window, surrounded by beautiful 63 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,120 berry trees, apple trees, and just once again, the breathtake, 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,240 the breathtaking silence in essence of nature. 65 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:41,840 So interestingly enough, I'm someone who enjoys watching 66 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,439 gardening, but not so much a very successful gardener. 67 00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:46,879 SPEAKER_01: That's great. 68 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:48,560 So, but why? 69 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:52,719 Why employment law? 70 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,719 Why that? 71 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,319 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question. 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,199 I think it all stems from, you know, it's interesting. 73 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,400 Recently I learned that employment, like your 74 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,360 employment, that is a social determinant of health. 75 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,919 And that kind of makes sense because if you are gainfully 76 00:04:09,919 --> 00:04:12,960 employed in this country, you most likely have access to 77 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,919 better health care, better hospital systems, better 78 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:17,360 healthcare systems. 79 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,639 And I come from a family that is very much entrenched in the 80 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:21,600 healthcare system. 81 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:25,680 My mom was a registered nurse, but my uncle was a neurologist. 82 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,519 And so being in a space of caring for people has been 83 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:30,879 something I grew up with. 84 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,319 Now, medicine wasn't exactly my path. 85 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:38,560 However, still feeling that there was a way to help people, 86 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,600 to get better outcomes and to live a better life, that is 87 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,839 something I looked for within a career. 88 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,120 And I'll admit I stumbled into employment law and really 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:49,680 enjoyed it. 90 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:50,959 It really resonated with me. 91 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,439 And I think it's for all the reasons I just explained. 92 00:04:53,759 --> 00:04:57,439 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you went the lawyer route, right? 93 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:03,120 And you your focus in that segment of being a lawyer is 94 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:06,480 employment law, right? 95 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:13,279 What propelled you to take a deeper dive into it by coaching 96 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:19,199 professionals in that space instead of do you work for a 97 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:22,800 particular firm that you work for, or do you own your own 98 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,720 business, or are you independent and you're doing coaching for 99 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:27,360 help? 100 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,360 Give us some more insight. 101 00:05:30,079 --> 00:05:34,319 Absolutely how the picture of a lawyer coaches professionals. 102 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:35,680 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 103 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,160 I must admit, I am someone who became a fan favorite of an 104 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,560 organization called Coach Diversity. 105 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,519 They've now rebranded for obvious reasons, and they are 106 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:47,839 now named the Institute for Coaching Innovation. 107 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,439 But they came out with this really big splashy presentation 108 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,319 about maybe seven or eight years ago, in where I was enamored 109 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,360 because it was the very first time that someone had actually 110 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,639 looked at the gap in coaching and the whole idea that someone 111 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:05,680 was even introducing this whole concept of coaching to me. 112 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,920 So I'll admit, even though I was an employment lawyer, I was 113 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,959 always that person who was either there to clean up the 114 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:16,480 mess because an employee had unfortunately been laid off, 115 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:20,079 terminated, or was being performance managed, or I was 116 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:24,399 that person who was setting up the structures that would ensure 117 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:26,240 that the workplace moves smoothly. 118 00:06:26,399 --> 00:06:29,439 However, there is that missing piece for me around how some 119 00:06:29,439 --> 00:06:31,439 people have access to coaching. 120 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:35,360 I didn't realize that there were some people in the workplace who 121 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,240 are given coaches because they're high performers, but 122 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,360 these are people who might lack the ability to communicate with 123 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:42,639 other people respectfully. 124 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,079 These are people who might lack the ability to collaborate. 125 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:51,199 These are people who might have some element of their capability 126 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:53,120 to work with others that was missing. 127 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:58,160 And so when Coach Diversity came out as this, as the first and 128 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,160 only organization to coach people through workplace issues 129 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,959 that looked at diversity as a skill set and really as a 130 00:07:06,959 --> 00:07:10,000 function of being able to do great work in the workplace, 131 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,759 that really appealed to me. 132 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,920 And so I reached out to the owner and I said, hey, I want to 133 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,519 actually just audit your course. 134 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,759 I don't know exactly what I'm getting into, but I just want to 135 00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:21,360 audit this and see what this is all about. 136 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,759 And I sat in on one session, and that one session was about 137 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,279 coaching the shadow is all about really listening to what's not 138 00:07:29,279 --> 00:07:33,199 being said, really listening to someone and hearing what they 139 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:35,839 might not hear what they've been saying all these years to 140 00:07:35,839 --> 00:07:39,040 themselves, but you as the coach, and you're not supposed 141 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,160 to go shadow hunting. 142 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:43,040 However, I'll admit, it was something that really intrigued 143 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:43,199 me. 144 00:07:43,279 --> 00:07:45,680 The whole idea that you're sitting there and you're hearing 145 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,920 a story that someone may not realize that they've been 146 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,439 telling themselves over and over again for years, that may be 147 00:07:51,439 --> 00:07:54,000 limiting how they see themselves, how they're 148 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,720 performing, and how they're interacting with others. 149 00:07:56,959 --> 00:08:00,399 And so it was a perfect fit that as an employment lawyer, being 150 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:04,319 able to add this coaching element to my work, because if 151 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:07,439 I'm working with senior level professionals, I need to be 152 00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:09,839 hearing what's not being said in the meeting. 153 00:08:10,079 --> 00:08:14,399 I need to be hearing what people are concerned about, but they're 154 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:15,360 not saying it. 155 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,360 And most importantly, I need to be able to communicate that to 156 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,720 other groups and to my team members at times. 157 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,600 By some time, sometimes I understand what's happening 158 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,120 because I'm listening to what's not being said out loud. 159 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:34,799 And I'm able to ask the questions that get maybe two 160 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,559 parties to get a little bit closer to an agreement, to some 161 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,799 sort of collaboration, or in some way being able to work much 162 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:43,840 more effectively. 163 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,919 And so that's where I landed. 164 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,200 So my coaching practice, I must admit, was really something I 165 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,960 did for professional purposes. 166 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,240 But it was something that I was enamored with and said, if this 167 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,200 is something that can help me, I want to see how it would really 168 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,200 impact our high performers who I know were at risk of losing. 169 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,919 Our high performers who've been here for a number of years and 170 00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:08,080 might not feel as though they're advancing as quickly as they 171 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:08,480 should. 172 00:09:08,799 --> 00:09:12,960 People who may one day be leading other people, making 173 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,039 sure that they have the skill set to not just hear what's not 174 00:09:17,039 --> 00:09:19,679 being said, but to also know what to do with it. 175 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,679 And so I put a cohort of people through the Coach Diversity 176 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:28,559 seminars, and I got a few people certified as coaches in the 177 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,080 organization for which I was working. 178 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,440 Fast forward, where am I now? 179 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:34,080 So, Coach Mo, you asked, okay, so where is Natalie now? 180 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,600 I am now the president and founder of Quest Employment 181 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:38,080 Initiatives. 182 00:09:38,159 --> 00:09:39,679 It is my own organization. 183 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,519 And we look at the compliance element of the workplace where 184 00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:45,360 it traverses with culture. 185 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:48,720 So, as someone who worked as a chief diversity officer and as 186 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,799 an employment lawyer, there is this great expanse in where if 187 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:56,399 you are able to understand and foresee what are the employment 188 00:09:56,399 --> 00:10:00,799 law risks of an organization, you're much better able to help 189 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:04,399 the organization to figure out how and where they should be 190 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:08,000 patching the holes and more importantly, really creating and 191 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,840 building up their infrastructure so that they're not harming 192 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:12,480 their people. 193 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:13,840 What does that look like? 194 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,120 It's making sure that people managers have proper training, 195 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:20,480 development, making sure that when people have workplace 196 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,159 complaints, that they know where to go to with those complaints. 197 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,440 Making sure that people understand that, look, when you 198 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,159 file a complaint, the issue is not just simply going up into 199 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,360 thin air. 200 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:34,879 People create their own stories and fill in the gaps themselves 201 00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:38,000 when they feel as though, oh, I filed this complaint and I don't 202 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:38,960 know what happened to it. 203 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,919 It's making sure that the organizations I work with, the 204 00:10:41,919 --> 00:10:46,159 startups I'm working with, the startups that were founded by 205 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:49,919 passion and desire, but now getting to a space where they're 206 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:53,440 scaling up and they're hiring people, making sure that they 207 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,320 are not landing on their people the wrong way. 208 00:10:56,639 --> 00:10:57,279 SPEAKER_01: That's great. 209 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,159 I love that. 210 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,279 I love how there's the legal element, the compliance element 211 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:06,879 meshing with the coaching element. 212 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,320 And there's so many patterns that high performers carry that 213 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,240 they're unaware of, and they consistently stay in their own 214 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:16,559 way. 215 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:23,519 And you being able to connect and bring both elements into the 216 00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:27,279 picture and help these leaders to start to shift. 217 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:33,200 And particularly when you talk about culture and DEIB and these 218 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:39,200 organizations, yeah, they want it, but their behaviors 219 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,919 implement something differently. 220 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,759 And they speak it, but their patterns are differently, right? 221 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,399 So help me understand this. 222 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,480 An organization, they reach out to you, right? 223 00:11:53,360 --> 00:12:00,799 And they want to be highly successful in the area of 224 00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:04,320 shifting their culture, DIB, blah blah blah, right? 225 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:09,360 They want this because it's good for their ROI, looks good for 226 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,679 the investors, blah, blah, blah, right? 227 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,759 But their behaviors are actually different, right? 228 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:18,639 And you come in and you can see it. 229 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,320 How do you help those leaders at the top of the food chain shift 230 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,440 their paradigm? 231 00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:28,320 SPEAKER_02: I always said that being a chief diversity officer, 232 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:31,039 and for those who are still in those roles, whether it's now 233 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:34,480 the chief culture and inclusion and belonging officer, whether 234 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,039 it's the chief, the chief outreach officer, those are some 235 00:12:39,039 --> 00:12:40,240 very difficult roles. 236 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:40,639 Why? 237 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Because just what you said, Coach Mo, these are the roles 238 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,519 where you are hired to create an outcome that no one really 239 00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:48,159 wants. 240 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:51,039 I must admit, you're being hired for an outcome. 241 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,679 And when I say the outcome, I'm not saying that people don't 242 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,399 want an environment that's diverse and that is inclusive. 243 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,080 But what I'm saying is it's the work that's required to get to 244 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,440 those outcomes. 245 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:05,919 It's the honesty that it takes to get to those outcomes, it's 246 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:08,960 the vulnerability and being able to say that you don't know what 247 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,679 you don't know about how you're impacting different pockets of 248 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:14,639 your organization. 249 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:18,480 And so when organizational leaders do have that schism in 250 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,720 where they're not moving forward with the kind of inclusiveness, 251 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:26,000 with the kind of listening and understanding, and with the 252 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,480 ability to really move across their organization in such a way 253 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,240 that they're creating trust. 254 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Because at the end of the day, that's all inclusion, equity, 255 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:36,720 and diversity work is all about. 256 00:13:36,879 --> 00:13:39,200 It's really about creating that trust with your people. 257 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,960 That's the conversation, that's the hard conversation I have 258 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,639 with founders, with startup leaders, to help them create 259 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:49,600 what I call the mirror, to hold a mirror up to them and to 260 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,159 identify this is the organization and this is how I'm 261 00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:52,559 seeing it. 262 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,600 And this is the reason why I'm the kind of person that you want 263 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,879 to bring in if you are a chief diversity officer, because you 264 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:00,879 can't have this conversation with your founders. 265 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,919 It's someone like me who, yes, I'm going to tell them and have 266 00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:07,120 the hard conversations with them. 267 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,519 I'm going to create the assessments and the diagnostics 268 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:13,679 to show how and where they're showing up for their people. 269 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:17,679 I'm creating the and I'm hosting the focus groups. 270 00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:21,600 That's one great thing about tech startups, they love data. 271 00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:24,879 And I give them data the way that they can read it and 272 00:14:24,879 --> 00:14:26,480 appreciate it and understand it. 273 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,679 When I present them with qualitative and quantitative 274 00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:33,600 data to show how they are showing up for their people, 275 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,879 that then helps them to create more of an objective shift. 276 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,919 It's not just simply person A or B having this concern. 277 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,440 If they collectively can see as an organization that they have 278 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,600 certain areas of room for improvement or opportunities for 279 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,720 growth, that's where you're really able to have the 280 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,440 meaningful conversations around the data. 281 00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:54,960 SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's great. 282 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,759 I'm gonna I want to go a little deeper though. 283 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,080 And here's what I'm gonna ask you. 284 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:05,440 You have a chief officer, a chief diversity officer, for 285 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:05,919 example. 286 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:10,639 Maybe they're a nonprofit and they don't exactly have the 287 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:14,559 budget right now to reach out for your services. 288 00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:19,679 But they're struggling with trust issues because maybe the 289 00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:24,399 founder, maybe the board of governors, whatever, they 290 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:29,039 brought them in just for outward facing. 291 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,279 That's why they brought them in for outward facing to show 292 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:38,879 society, hey, look, we have a chief diversity officer and 293 00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:44,000 we're doing diversity work, but internally they're not doing 294 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:44,240 that. 295 00:15:44,559 --> 00:15:48,559 The person that's a chief officer is really struggling 296 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:54,399 because they can't get their peers, founder, people above 297 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:59,840 their head, the board members on in alignment with what they're 298 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,240 trying to do to create more diversity, inclusion, 299 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:09,600 equitability, excuse me, but inclusion within the 300 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,559 organization. 301 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,480 But they don't have a budget to really necessarily reach out to 302 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,000 you for that support. 303 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:21,840 What's one step that you would advise them to take if they're 304 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,519 in that situation to start to formulate trust? 305 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,279 SPEAKER_02: I actually want to give two pieces of advice. 306 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,240 So for that person who is finding that they might be 307 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,960 sidelined, as you said, the intentions of the organization 308 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,559 might not have been true and pure as to why this person was 309 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:39,840 truly brought on board. 310 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,720 This is where it's really important that when you're in 311 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,960 any role, that you understand how you impact the organization. 312 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,360 But most importantly, how you could advance the organization's 313 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,519 mission and ultimately what the organization values. 314 00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:59,039 So if you're a for-profit, obviously you're looking at PL. 315 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,799 You're looking at how do you create more sales, profits, and 316 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:03,519 opportunity. 317 00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:07,519 With a nonprofit, the question is, how are you also able to 318 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:10,720 help with generating interest from donors? 319 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,880 How are you able to show that you that your work can help 320 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,319 generate interest in grants? 321 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,160 When I sat in the chief diversity officer role, I was 322 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,079 helpful in bringing in over$61 million to an organization by 323 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,000 way of creating the work that many of my scientists could then 324 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,519 lean on and promote when they were filing for their own 325 00:17:31,519 --> 00:17:31,920 grants. 326 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,039 My office alone had a half million dollar grant given to 327 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:35,200 us. 328 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:35,680 Why? 329 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,000 Because we were very much enmeshed in the work of the 330 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,240 mission of the organization, but ultimately what granters saw as 331 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:44,880 valuable. 332 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,480 So I would say to that CDO who is feeling in some way 333 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,319 sidelined, it's to really do a deep dive and do your own work 334 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,200 to understand how do you impact this organization? 335 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,799 How does this organization function such that you could be 336 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:03,039 that interruption piece to show the value that you bring? 337 00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:06,160 There's this debate as to whether or not the business case 338 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,599 for diversity is something that is legitimate, whether it's 339 00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:11,519 something that even needs to be made. 340 00:18:11,839 --> 00:18:15,680 I do feel that in any organization, that any time that 341 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,519 they're expending any sort of resources, you do have to make a 342 00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:23,440 case for why your initiative is something that requires 343 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,400 attention. 344 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,319 And so it does behoove you to, once again, make a case or to 345 00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:34,400 really align yourself with what the organization values and to 346 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,880 really set it up as a story as to where you're that crucial 347 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,880 piece for making it happen. 348 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,680 As I mentioned, there's another piece of advice that I would 349 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:44,640 highly recommend. 350 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,960 I'd also do some scoping work. 351 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,000 I would take a look at how are other organizations that are 352 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,640 similarly situated, how are they structured? 353 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,279 Because if you're saying you don't have the money for it, 354 00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:58,799 look, that which we pay for is that which we value. 355 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,839 If you don't have money for something, then you really have 356 00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:04,799 to dig deep and say, is this something that you truly have 357 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:05,519 valued? 358 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:09,599 When we need that new support, we find the money for it. 359 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:13,440 When we need that new software program, we find the money for 360 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:13,599 it. 361 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:17,039 The question is, if you're talking about values and culture 362 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:22,000 work, what is it that you can really position by way of 363 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,799 scoping and doing some benchmarking with other 364 00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:29,200 organizations to show this is what it takes in order to launch 365 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:29,920 this initiative? 366 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,359 When I was in law enforcement, I was an office of one and a 367 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,680 budget of none initially. 368 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:37,680 And I went out there and I did the benchmarking. 369 00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:41,839 I looked at other agencies and I brought the data together to 370 00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,920 show this is what we should look like based on who we have, based 371 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,880 on the number of officers that we have, and based on who we 372 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:49,519 serve. 373 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,400 And ultimately, this is how we impact the organization if we're 374 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,880 able to have more resources in this space. 375 00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:59,359 By the time I left, I had a budget of over half a million 376 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,759 dollars and I had four people reporting into me. 377 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,680 So it's once again, how do you set up the framework to really 378 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,240 show that this is something that the organization should value? 379 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,799 I would say one of the unintended consequences of the 380 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:16,640 DEI backlash that we're seeing today, it's that a lot of these 381 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,759 organizations have already really dug deep to understand, 382 00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:22,160 all right, so how does this role really help us? 383 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:26,640 And the really smart culture and inclusion officers, they did the 384 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440 homework and they really showed: look, I can help you make money, 385 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,799 I can help you gain customers, I can help you keep customers, I 386 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:37,599 can help you appeal to grantors, I can also help you appeal to 387 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:38,240 your base. 388 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,759 And so that's how and why you'll see that some of these roles 389 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:42,960 didn't disappear. 390 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,880 They really were morphed into something that is so much more 391 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,880 entrenched in the organization. 392 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,400 It's like the die was cast. 393 00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:53,839 So it was no longer the standalone, oh, we have a chief 394 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:54,799 diversity officer. 395 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,880 No, it is now this person is like the die that is in the 396 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,640 water, that is inseparable from our organization. 397 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:06,720 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's help me help our audience understand 398 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,440 what is the true value in bringing diversity into 399 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,400 organizations and having an officer chief overseeing that. 400 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:20,240 What's the true value of doing that and why should more 401 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,160 organizations, in your opinion, invest more into diversity that 402 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:26,480 way? 403 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,319 SPEAKER_02: So when I think about diversity, I really mean 404 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:33,359 it from a very pure sense of the word diversity. 405 00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:37,759 So there are some people who use the word diverse to indicate 406 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:41,440 race or gender, or people who are historically 407 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,480 underrepresented. 408 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,000 I step away from that. 409 00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:46,720 I really look at the word diversity in its true 410 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,039 Merriam-Webster's definition, which really means a compilation 411 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:54,720 of differences that you are bringing to an organization. 412 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160 And in any organization today that is working on a global 413 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,839 scale, even organizations that are Local, you want to make sure 414 00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:05,200 that you have people in your organization who can work well 415 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,400 together, people who understand the clients that you're working 416 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:08,559 with. 417 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:11,519 I recently decided to do a little bit of a rebrand with one 418 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:15,279 of my websites, and I really pushed in on the whole idea of 419 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,279 if you are losing people, you are most likely losing customers 420 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,000 too. 421 00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:24,160 Because the way you treat your people oftentimes translates 422 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,440 into how your people are treating your customers. 423 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,680 And so if you're in an environment in where inclusion, 424 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:37,119 in where respect, and where civility, and where collegiality 425 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,160 are not in any way of value, it shows up in terms of the 426 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,640 language that people use, in terms of people feeling checked 427 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:47,839 out of the organization. 428 00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:50,960 I'm sure, Coach Mo, I can ask you the question: have you ever 429 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,160 worked in an organization in where you did not feel valued? 430 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:54,720 SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. 431 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,039 SPEAKER_02: That is the essence of diversity, equity, and 432 00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:01,039 inclusion work, making sure that everyone feels valued in the 433 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:02,000 organization. 434 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:03,440 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. 435 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:06,240 And that's where I talk a lot about my swag framework, 436 00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:09,759 self-awareness, white power, aligned action, and grit. 437 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,039 And when I say self-awareness, you feel the triggers when your 438 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:19,440 values are off, when something isn't really meshing right 439 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,279 within the organization. 440 00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:27,279 And what causes our swag to be off, we feel it, but we ignore 441 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,839 it and we don't take action to it. 442 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,000 And so we become distracted by the inner critic. 443 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:38,799 And the inner critic is always loud because doubt is present, 444 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:44,240 maybe fear, maybe hesitancy, all of these types of draining 445 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,559 emotions is present and it becomes a distraction, indulged 446 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,240 into that distraction, and you forget about your purpose. 447 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:58,319 And so without purpose, your value alignment is off and you 448 00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:02,079 feel it within the organization, and then you try to ignore it 449 00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:07,519 and just to push through and grind harder, but something is 450 00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:08,720 always off. 451 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,799 And so I can imagine the work that you do now is you help 452 00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:16,480 create that alignment. 453 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,400 And when you come to these organizations to help create 454 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,359 that alignment, what's that process? 455 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,480 What's your, and I don't want to, you don't have to give all 456 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,680 your secrets, but what in general, what's that process to 457 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,480 help these leaders get back in alignment? 458 00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,799 SPEAKER_02: So my process normally starts, and I have to 459 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,880 admit, when the house is on fire. 460 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,319 So when you're a founder, when you're a startup, you're often 461 00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:46,160 not thinking about culture and inclusion work. 462 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,039 You're thinking about, oh my gosh, we just got hit with some 463 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:51,519 kind of complaint from the Equal Employment Opportunity 464 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:55,599 Commission, the government agency that will investigate as 465 00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:59,039 well as file a complaint of discrimination, harassment, and 466 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:03,599 retaliation against your company on your employees' behalf. 467 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,039 And organizations that are startups that are really just 468 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:10,160 trying to be quick and nimble oftentimes don't have in-house 469 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,920 counsel or even external counsel. 470 00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:14,319 So that's where they reach out to me as an employment lawyer 471 00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:18,160 who's able to help them with these issues under privilege. 472 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,839 That's really the opening gate in where we say, hey, if we've 473 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:27,680 had this complaint, this just might be the canary in the coal 474 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,240 mine to letting us know what else is happening in the 475 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:30,720 culture. 476 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,200 As you mentioned with your swag framework, swag doesn't just get 477 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,960 lost overnight, and swag doesn't just get developed overnight. 478 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,400 It is a period of time. 479 00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:44,160 It's like beach erosion, in where there might be that 480 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,240 manager, that supervisor, that coworker who is saying or doing 481 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,480 something that over time is chipping away at the confidence 482 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920 and the capability and the interest of members of that 483 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:56,240 team. 484 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,440 And when I come in through the compliance lens where I'm 485 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,720 investigating an issue, where I am coming up with the remedial 486 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,680 actions, that's really where I'm able to start the conversation 487 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,000 now. 488 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,440 Okay, this is where we started, but let's also make sure that 489 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,880 this doesn't happen in the future. 490 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,920 Let's protect your company, what you've built, what you've 491 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,160 invested in over time to make sure that you've got something 492 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,599 that is valuable that no one can attack again. 493 00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:23,920 And I'm not in any way saying that you're never going to get 494 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,839 another complaint, but at least you're going to find that the 495 00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:32,160 complaints will most likely be internal as opposed to external. 496 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,160 Why is that a big difference? 497 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,519 The moment a complaint becomes external, you as the startup 498 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:40,799 founder, you as the employer, you've lost control over the 499 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:43,920 ability to investigate it yourself and to resolve the 500 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,079 issue internally and to keep it quiet. 501 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,359 Once a matter is filed with the EEOC, it's a part of the public 502 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,000 record. 503 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,279 You can now show up in press releases. 504 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,079 You can now show up in all parts of public media, not in the way 505 00:26:58,079 --> 00:26:59,920 you expected or wanted. 506 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:04,640 And so that's why I say to really smart founders, let's do 507 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,680 the compliance work on the front end and build out your 508 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,319 processes. 509 00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,119 You've got the employee handbook, you've got your NDAs, 510 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,319 your non-disclosure agreements, you've got your complaint 511 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:14,880 mechanism. 512 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,079 But let's go a step further now and start looking at the culture 513 00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:21,440 and inclusion work and the belonging work to make sure that 514 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,880 we don't have any actors in the organization that don't 515 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,359 understand the expectations that you have for ensuring that your 516 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,079 organization is innovative and profitable. 517 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,599 SPEAKER_01: I love that. 518 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:36,880 Your company is doing amazing work. 519 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:37,519 Thank you. 520 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,599 I really do thank you for being present here and just sharing 521 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:43,839 this wealth of knowledge and nuggets. 522 00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:46,480 How can my audience find you? 523 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,319 SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Coach Mo. 524 00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:50,480 It's been a pleasure being on your show and thank you for 525 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,920 asking so many great questions. 526 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,000 People can find me at so if you are a startup or founder and you 527 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,960 are looking to even find out whether or not you have any 528 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,480 risks right now in your organization, I say, take my 529 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,039 assessment. 530 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,759 It's free. 531 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:06,480 It's it takes less than 10 minutes, sorry, less than two 532 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:06,960 minutes. 533 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,240 It's at quest EI.org. 534 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:13,920 So Q-U-E-S-T-E-I.org. 535 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,039 For organizations that are really looking for something 536 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:20,720 that will stoke the fires of being able to have the bigger 537 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:26,640 conversation around how and where culture impacts how your 538 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,799 people are feeling in the organization and how your 539 00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:32,400 customers are experiencing your organization, really making sure 540 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,279 that you keep the right people in your organization and looking 541 00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:36,480 at retention. 542 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,559 I speak on this issue, and I'd be happy to be a keynote speaker 543 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:41,519 or workshop leader. 544 00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,880 And you can find me at Natalie HolderSpeaks.com. 545 00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:45,920 SPEAKER_01: Nice. 546 00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,480 Tell us a little bit more about the assessment. 547 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,799 SPEAKER_02: So the assessment to understand what are your risks 548 00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:57,119 around employment issues asks you questions around do you have 549 00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:58,880 an internal complaint mechanism? 550 00:28:59,119 --> 00:29:02,079 Do you have a lot of people who are minors in your organization? 551 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:04,799 What kind of training are you offering to your people? 552 00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:08,319 These are some of the bright line areas that unfortunately 553 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,279 founders sometimes miss because they're building it fast. 554 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,079 They're building the plane fast while they're they're getting in 555 00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:15,680 the plane as they're building it. 556 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,519 And unfortunately, these nitty-gritty issues, 557 00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:22,160 unfortunately, sometimes go missed. 558 00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:25,440 However, it's really easy, in my opinion, to start setting up the 559 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,640 structure once you know about it. 560 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,519 And once you're working with someone who's really good at 561 00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,720 being able to not just identify it for you, but to help you 562 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,160 understand why this is a good investment of your time and your 563 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,799 effort. 564 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:38,240 SPEAKER_01: That's awesome. 565 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,920 I appreciate you sharing. 566 00:29:40,079 --> 00:29:41,440 I also do an assessment. 567 00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:45,359 I do the burnout mirror assessment, and that kind of 568 00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:49,039 spits out an archetype of the types of burnout that you may 569 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:50,319 potentially be carrying. 570 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,559 So I like to promote that as well. 571 00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:55,599 But thank you for coming on this show. 572 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,880 Any lasting thoughts that you would like to share before we 573 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:01,519 sign off? 574 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,240 SPEAKER_02: So important to be kind to each other. 575 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,480 That's the one thing I would just share. 576 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,599 And as you mentioned, the importance of just recognizing 577 00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:10,720 the patterns. 578 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,200 Understand what patterns you have been ignoring that are 579 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000 going to show up in the next organization if you don't handle 580 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,960 them right now. 581 00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:20,960 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. 582 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:22,240 There it is. 583 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,599 Thank you, Natalie. 584 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,279 I really do appreciate you. 585 00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:26,720 Thank you, Coach Will. 586 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,680 That's another rep in the inner arena. 587 00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:32,960 You didn't just listen, you leveled up your swag. 588 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:38,079 Self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. 589 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,559 If this hit home, share it, subscribe to the Let's Think 590 00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,720 About It podcast, and lock in with me on YouTube at Swag 591 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:47,519 Coaching. 592 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,799 Until next time, stay aware, lead with your why, act in 593 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,359 alignment, and keep your grid strong.