Let's Think About It Podcast

The episode contains a handful of genuinely useful operational points—particularly around the risk of complaints going external to the EEOC and how CDOs can frame their ROI—but the 31 minutes are heavily padded with origin-story monologue, host SWAG framework promotion, and pleasantries that crowd out insight.

“the moment a complaint becomes external, you as the startup founder, you as the employer, you've lost control over the ability to investigate it yourself and to resolve the issue internally and to keep it quiet”

“Once a matter is filed with the EEOC, it's a part of the public record. You can now show up in press releases.”

There is one genuinely counterintuitive framing—that CDOs are hired for an outcome nobody actually wants to do the work to achieve—but most content recycles standard DEI consulting language and generic coaching themes about self-awareness and values alignment.

“you are hired to create an outcome that no one really wants”

“it is now this person is like the die that is in the water, that is inseparable from our organization”

Natalie Holder is a credible practitioner—former CDO, employment lawyer, and founder with verifiable operational experience scaling a DEI function from zero budget to over $500K—but she is not a widely recognised name at scale and the transcript doesn't surface impact beyond a single employer's story.

“when I sat in the chief diversity officer role, I was helpful in bringing in over $61 million to an organization by way of creating the work that many of my scientists could then lean on”

“by the time I left, I had a budget of over half a million dollars and I had four people reporting into me”

A few concrete numbers (the $61M grant portfolio, the $500K office grant, the zero-to-four-person team growth) provide a grounding, but there are no named client companies, no industry benchmarks, no timelines tied to outcomes, and the rest of the episode is largely abstract.

“I was helpful in bringing in over $61 million to an organization by way of creating the work that many of my scientists could then lean on and promote when they were filing for their own grants. My office alone had a half million dollar grant given to us.”

“When I was in law enforcement, I was an office of one and a budget of none initially... By the time I left, I had a budget of over half a million dollars and I had four people reporting into me.”

The host asks a reasonable scenario-based question about a budget-constrained CDO and does push for depth once, but consistently retreats to self-promotion of the SWAG framework, offers no substantive pushback on any claim, and closes with overt flattery rather than a probing follow-up.

“Your company is doing amazing work. Thank you. I really do thank you for being present here and just sharing this wealth of knowledge and nuggets.”

“I don't want to, you don't have to give all your secrets, but what in general, what's that process”