Leadership Sovereignty Podcast: Career Growth and Promotion · 2026-02-09 · 16 min
Ralph Owens and Terry Baylor discuss why boundaries are essential leadership skills rather than weaknesses, challenging the cultural conditioning that makes leaders say yes to everything. The core insight is that responsibility literally means 'respond in your ability' - you can only deliver at the level of your current capacity. By disconnecting 'no' from shame and abandonment fears (which stem from childhood conditioning and workplace environments), leaders can make clearer decisions about what to actually commit to. The hosts introduce the DARN framework (Desire, Ability, Reason, Need) as a practical tool to gauge whether a task deserves your engagement. They reference Viktor Frankl's choice of perception under Nazi persecution to show that how you interpret circumstances - whether as victim or overcomer - is a choice, not genetic destiny. This applies directly to preventing burnout: spreading yourself across ten different directions ensures you underperform in all of them. The episode is essential for executives, founders, and senior managers struggling with imposter syndrome, overcommitment, and the guilt that follows saying no to colleagues, reports, or leadership opportunities.
Children say 'no' based purely on their capacity without shame or abandonment fears attached. Adults lose this ability through environmental conditioning (home, work, relationships) that teaches them 'no' means rejection, abandonment, or failure, requiring intentional work to disconnect these false associations.
It means you can only authentically deliver on commitments within your current capacity - just as a runner cannot exceed their natural speed without training. Setting boundaries based on your actual ability (energy, skill, time) allows you to show up fully in those commitments rather than spreading yourself thin.
Use the DARN framework: rate your Desire (1-10), Ability (1-10), Reason, and Need for the task. If you score high on all four factors, it's worth engaging; if multiple factors are low (like a 2 or 5), you should pause or decline to avoid overcommitment.
Frankl demonstrated that even in extreme circumstances, you retain the choice of how to perceive your situation - as a victim or as someone with agency. This applies to leaders: choosing how you interpret 'no' (as abandonment versus necessary self-care) is entirely within your control.
When you spread yourself across too many commitments, every area suffers because no part of you can show up fully. Boundaries concentrate your energy where you have true capacity and commitment, allowing you to deliver excellence and maintain resilience.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
We want to be accessible to people. But we are not being responsible to ourselves. In this episode of the Leadership Sovereignty Podcast, host Ralph Owens and co-host Terry Baylor continue their conversation with Amethyst Roberson - therapist, author, and emotional intelligence strategist. This is Part 3 of 5. Amethyst breaks down why saying no is not a weakness - it is a leadership skill rooted in your actual ability. She reframes the word responsibility itself: respond in your ability. She introduces the DARN framework for assessing whether to engage or pause, explains why most leaders lost their no through conditioning rather than character, and shows how boundaries set from ability rather than guilt become the foundation of sustainable performance.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: One of the main boundaries that we all have difficulty with, including myself, is saying no to people. If I say no, I m feel abandoned. Will my team abandon me? Will my spouse abandon me? Will this friend abandon me? Responsibility means respond in my ability.
Speaker B: Wow.
Speaker A: Respond in my ability.
Speaker C: Welcome to the Leadership Sovereignty podcast, where professionals learn to navigate challenges at work through the power of leadership principles. I'm, um, Ralph Owens, chief information officer in the financial services industry, alongside my co host, Terry Baylor, the CEO of a healthcare tech startup. Together we've spent decades building teams, transforming organizations, and coaching individuals through the moments that define their careers. We unpack the mindset, strategies and habits that help you lead with confidence, expand your influence, get promoted, and increase your income. Now, let's dive into today's episode.
Speaker B: Terry, Terry hit on a really good point too, that before we move on to the next section, I would love for you to just dive into just a little bit more the power of your own perception. Right. So Terry and I talk about this all the time. My perception is my choice. I get to choose how I look at this situation. And I think a lot of people subconsciously don't believe that they think that their perception has to be this, because this is the way grandma did it, you know, or, uh, this is the way grandpa did it. Right. And how that's passed down from generation to generation. I remember when it, when, when the light bulb went off for me, I was just like, I think I, I started reading Victor Frankel's book. This man was. Man was, yeah. Jewish, persecuted by the Nazis. He was watching horrific things happen.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And he chose to have a different perspective. And the, uh, light bulb went off. It's like, man, that's your choice. He basically said, look, I choose to look at life this way. And everybody has the ability to do that. Can you just touch on that just a little bit?
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with that. And my take on that is perception is reality. It's real. It's a real phenomenon. It's what you see, it's what you understand. And in terms of like Viktor Frankl, he used the power of his capacity. I'm, um, always go back to that. He used the power of his capacity to determine how to move forward, which in other, again, language, words, is perception. It is how I choose, and let's go there how I choose to see this, this is going to be the thing that becomes the bridge for me to get out of this. Now, there were millions beside him, right. That didn't make it out. Why? Because of their Perception of their circumstances, their situations. They fell prey to imposter syndrome and to guilt and to shame and to abuse. There's so many things that you can fall prey to when it comes to your perception, but you have to be able to. That third one, that, and I call it 3C method, that third C. Courage in the face of fear. And you said it, Terri, too. In resiliency, I move forward, I choose courage versus again, we love character. Character is great, but character doesn't always carry us there. Victor Frankl, I'm sure, was a great man.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: I'm sure he had a lot of principles, but he had to dig deep and find the fortitude, the resiliency, the courage to perceive something differently. And that is the things that we talked about just a minute ago. The abuse, whether it's church work, you have to be able to have courage to face whatever it is, period. And it always goes back to that. And it's based on our condition. And you touched on that, Ralph. The condition of the person. Mama baked her ham like this. That's why I put that half of the times. We don't know why. Why you put that in there. Amity. I don't know. My mama did it. It tastes good, right? But you know what? Each generation has to add a little bit more to it. That's what I say. Add a little bit more to that recipe. Add a little bit more to that tradition. It does not have to say stay the same. But that's also where we get stuck in our perceptions as well.
Speaker B: You got me excited. Ew. You got me excited because when you said we can fall prey to a victim mentality.
Speaker A: Absolutely.
Speaker B: Think about, think about that. Because so many people think that. No, that's just naturally me. No, no, it is your choice and your perception that you get to choose if you view yourself as an overcomer or, uh, or as a victim. Right. That's not, that's not like genetically imprinted in your DNA. Right. You get a choice. Right. It's very empowering, Very empowering. But let's go to the next, let's go to the next, uh, section. This is, this is, this is good. Why boundaries are a leadership skill and not a weakness. So so many leaders struggle with boundaries. Right. And how does that directly contribute to burnout?
Speaker A: Oh, boy. Well, I was thinking about boundaries the other day, and one of the main boundaries that we all have difficulty with, including myself, is saying no to people. And I thought about, you know, what's the first few things that a kid says when they're growing up. Da, da. And no and no.
Speaker B: That's right.
Speaker A: That's true.
Speaker D: That's the first.
Speaker B: So true.
Speaker A: So how is it that adults, we as adults struggle with no. When we started off with that thing.
Speaker D: You know what? That's heavy. That's a heavy. Cause here's the question becomes, is how do they even know to do. I mean, how. Where does that.
Speaker B: Wow, that's.
Speaker D: That's.
Speaker A: Just pause right there, please.
Speaker B: Oh my God, that's good. Yes, please dig into it.
Speaker A: How do they even know to say no?
Speaker D: Mhm.
Speaker A: Oh my God. Leaders struggle with it. I struggle with it because it's usually associated with guilt. It's usually associated with shame. That shame and guilt comes from your environment. Whether it's home, whether it's your first job, whether it's a friendship, whether it's a boss. You learn over time, you're conditioned to understand what that no is attached to. I'm, um, really big on the judgments that we give ourself. When I say no in a situation, what am I attaching that to m? What am I associating that with? Oftentimes. And I'll tell my own stories. I've always associated that with abandonment. If I say no, I feel abandoned. Will my team abandon me? Will my, Will my spouse abandon me? Will this friend abandon me? My m way of dealing with that, with this aspect of boundaries is you gotta detach it from those characteristics that you grew up with. So it takes a little work and a lot of digging to really begin to deal with the judgments that you've created in your own world, that you've committed to your values and beliefs. That's what that is. Do I value what I'm saying no to? So if I value it, I'm gonna do it, right? I'm no longer tied to guilt and shame. And there's so much I know, there's so much in that I'm committed to it. Like what we believe is what we commit to, right? If I say I believe I'm gonna be on this show today, I'm gonna do what I need to do to. And the root word, if you study biblically, in Greek, it means commit. If I say I believe something, how do you, how do you know that that employee is going to show up? If they commit to it and they show up right, they do it. They respond in their ability. Responsibility means respond in my ability.
Speaker B: Wow.
Speaker A: Respond in my ability. So boundaries, it's the same thing. A, uh, boundary should be set based upon your ability. So right now I can't be present with you because. Let's go back to the top of this conversation because I don't have the capacity right now.
Speaker B: Right, right.
Speaker A: Uh, no doesn't mean never. Right, Right. It just means right now I need to do some reflection for myself so that I can show up for you 100%. So I just disconnected my no from abandonment to now value to now commitment to now responsibility. I'm responding in my ability. Mhm. So that child. Let's go back here and I'm gonna end with that for. Let's go back to that child. Terry, you said how do they know? Because they know their ability. They didn't know any. Their ability. Their ability is. No.
Speaker B: That is so good.
Speaker A: They don't have the language beyond. No.
Speaker D: So, so, so it's a capacity thing. They, they.
Speaker A: It's a capacity thing. Absolutely.
Speaker B: And they haven't been conditioned to attach that no. To some kind of denial or shame or anything like that.
Speaker A: Denial. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B: You just changed my life. Responsibility is respond in my ability.
Speaker A: Yeah. That's all we can do. Yeah. That, that is even performance wise. Like I ran track for years, but I can run say a 11 flat. Right. M in 100. Right. I'm not going to get out there and run. I'm not going to run you.
Speaker D: I'm going to just say right now you were moving. That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But I'm not going to feel bad on the track for you. I'm a witness.
Speaker A: Thank you. But I'm not going to run a 9 9.
Speaker D: Right.
Speaker A: Because I don't have the capacity for it. I'm responding in my ability. I can't do it, but I can. What? I can condition myself to become better and stronger and wiser and so that's how we lost our no. That's how we lost our no. What do we condition ourselves in over these years? And we all got a slew of things that we can, we can think of on, um, how we lost our no. How was it so strong then? And now it's like, well, maybe I'll do it. Even though we know we don't have the capacity for it. Yes.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A: We want to be accessible to people.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: But we don't want to be responsible to ourselves.
Speaker B: You got to say that again. You got to say that again.
Speaker A: Look, we want to be accessible to people but not responsible to ourselves. I deal with it daily. I deal with the. I've worked with athletes, I've worked with CEOs and it never fails. That's the struggle that they have when they sit down, when they are given positions to be presidents over university. People don't know that they're struggling with imposter syndrome. Why? Because of that factor of honesty versus vulnerability. They don't want people to know what they don't want to tell them. Right, right. And so my challenge with them is to. You can only respond in your ability.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: They're not looking for you to be magical. And all of this when you show up, they just need you. They need you to show up. And that's how they begin to grow their capacity, their condition. Again, asking those same questions again and again.
Speaker B: Uh, can you, can you just dive a little bit as, as we're talking about boundaries then. So if we understand now that the boundary is to, to help us, you know, protect ourselves so we can be the best. Talk about how that, that, that, that empowers you to be, you know, even better than being one who says yes to everybody else.
Speaker A: Yeah, you, you know, uh, disconnecting from it being weakness. It gives you room and be available in the places and parts that you can, which will be stronger. So if I'm spreading myself 10 different ways, at some point, some part of me is not going to be able to show up. Right. So how, how do I, how do I. And here, here, here is how you really strengthen that area. What is it that I desire to do today? So you come up with your goals. It could be, you know, putting it in your phone, uh, putting it on your calendar. What is it that I desire to do today? As a, as a person, as a boss, as a physician, as a athlete? What do I desire to do today? What is my ability? And I always use this as a way to motivate people. I say put on a scale one to 10. One is, I don't have no ability today. 10 is I have all the ability that I need. And I use this acronym called DARN. D, A, R, N. What's my desire? 1 through 10. Right. And I say 5. Okay. What's my ability today? And I say it's 10. I got all the ability in the world. I feel good. I had my coffee, got my tea. What is my reason for doing it now? Well, my reason is about a, uh, two. Um, you know, I don't know if I need to be doing this anyway. What is my need? D, A, R, E. What is my need? Well, my need is about two. Right? So you got, you got one, you got two of them. That's High two of them. I say if you come out like that on that acronym, that's something maybe you need to parking lot, that you need to pause. But if you come out the gate and you're like, I desire to do this. I have the ability. I have a lot of reasons to do this, and I really need to do this, that is a sign. That's a signal that we need to engage in this today. I feel comfortable with doing this. And that's again, the internal work first, but then doing that with whoever you are leading as well, teaching them that this is how you get a gauge of what you need to do today. Again, on, uh, how to respond in your ability. Now, I don't know if I got off with that a little bit, but.
Speaker B: No, that's good. That's a perfect framework.
Speaker D: And one thing that I want to add to that. Right. I think it puts a totally different framework on self development.
Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Speaker D: Because a lot of times we think self development is reading a book, but sometimes that self development is our awareness. Right. I'm developing myself, so I, I hear a lot in. Of course, that also can lead us to go get a book, go take a class. But it's, uh, a. It's a. It's a way to develop ourselves.
Speaker C: Thank you for listening to the Leadership Sovereignty podcast. If today's conversation helped you grow in your leadership influence or your career, take a moment to visit leadership sovereignty.com there you'll find exclusive resources, free guides, and ways to stay connected to our community of leaders who are building purpose and success. Don't forget to rate, review and share this episode with someone who's on the rise in their career. Until next time, lead boldly. Lead with purpose and continue to walk in sovereignty. Take care.
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