Executive Presence Decoded: What It Really Is & How to Build It (in the AI Era)

Foundation of all of this, the foundation is communication. There are a lot of charismatic, good looking people we see publicly in companies and in other settings as leaders, but you do not respect them for what and how they communicate. Right. So brand, gravitas, appearance, all of that, you can practice and then eventually you can make it your own as an identity the way you want to come across. The thing that is really going to unlock you is that foundation. Hi everyone and welcome back to here's the Deal. We're now hitting a new year with 2026. This is the show where we unpack what really happens behind the scenes. That many, especially those who come from immigrant backgrounds or who feel like they're one and only in rooms of power, do not really know what happens behind the scenes in business, what decisions get made from a leadership perspective, culture and where the future work is headed. So our goal is to provide you fresh perspectives and unexpected inspirations from both our experiences, journeys that we were privy to be part of behind the scenes. My name is Shajat Ahmed and as usual, I'm joined by my beautiful CO host, Giselle DiCompo, Gotham. We both have a background in strategy consulting. We made the leap into tech and then now building our own ventures as entrepreneurs. We both also happen to be immigrants from completely different parts of the world. Our goal is to help you be better informed with insights and how the world of business really operates behind the scenes so you can shape an impactful career, you can break barriers and then design a more purposeful life as a leader when the road is unclear right now. So Giselle, what's the deal for today? Hey Sujat, thanks for that introduction and hello everyone. The deal for today is executive presence in the AI era. So why are we talking about executive presence? You know, Sujat and I, as he mentioned, you know, we want to bring things that maybe are not you, maybe you hear about it in your day to day, perhaps you even get feedback that you need to be, you need to have more executive presence. But you know, we're giving you the backstage view on what does that mean, how do we even define it and how do you work towards that and incorporate it in your personal brand and how that impacts your day to day professional life. So, so as we always like to do, we want to introduce a data point and to share about why this is so impactful. So 85%, 85% of job success comes from soft and people skills. So what does that mean? I think even from my perspective, especially growing up in the corporate world, I You know, there was a huge encouragement to be great at your technical craft in consulting. We used to say, you know, have one major and a few minors in terms of different subject matters and literal technical things that you can do. And this is important and this statistic is even more illuminating because while technical skills are important, what actually gets you promoted and gets you progressing in your career is actually not your technical skills. It's skewed more towards the other skill sets, leadership, communication, negotiation and other areas. As Sujat mentioned, we are both immigrants and in particular for both of us and other folks that we know and other folks that I work with in my consulting practice, this is a hard thing to understand what executive presence is and also just the culture of business. So when you add business culture, you're learning, you know, the business language, then you have feedback around executive presence. I don't know about you, but this was never really fully explained to me when I get this type of feedback and others are in the same boat. And so we want to unpack this given the level of magnitude of importance, this is for moving up in your career. And so Sujat, what is your perspective? I can't wait. So absolutely on why it matters right now, start of the year, it happens to be where a lot of people are planning for performance reviews. End of year, they're either prepping for their own reviews or reviews for others. And you're spot on. I think if for anyone who's been in the corporate world, they've seen this mythical term called executive presence. Even more so if you come from a background that you're the one and only, whether you're a female, you're a person of color, you're an immigrant, you come from a different sort of social pedigree within sort of the environment you're in. And they'll say, well, you lack executive presence. And every time when you talk to others is you were like, what does it mean? Right? And the people, the person saying it to you can't even explain it to you, but it is every time you look at as you grow in your career, when you look at when leaders are being assessed, you will see this term executive presence. You will see a lot of people within HR in management, people management will share that. It seems to be like a catch all phrase to either ding someone or to amplify someone's profile to say, hey, he or she has a X factor behind. And we've gone through it ourselves as well where we had to learn. First of all, get the surprise that someone Uses this term and you're like, well, what is it? And then find our way through understanding it through mentors and our own sort of hustle. And then over the years define it to coach others on executive presence as well as. And I think it definitely matters because now, so the era we're in, in this space where how do you stand out in an existing role or for a new role that you want to go in this tough job market, how do you show up? What is executive presence? And I think it matters a lot more because everything else can be deemed as table stakes when the final decision is being made for roles that you want to have and for roles that you want to audition for down the road. I wanted to underscore two things that you mentioned around just this feeling around the terminology, two words. So impactful executive presence, which is you can be on both sides, meaning. And this has happened to me where, you know, in most of my career, as I'm, you know, progressing and investment banking and consulting and in the tech space, it's understanding what is said about me in the room and especially earlier on in my career, you know, getting feedback that around, you know, the way in which you present yourself is important. And so getting that feedback, but really not much actionable things around that is important. So being on that side of the table and then, you know, many years later, being on the other side of the table in, you know, helping with performance discussions and also promotion discussions, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen that we have voted to promote someone over someone else because they both, you know, as Sujat, you mentioned, they have some table stakes, technical prowess that they bring, yet this one person has presence and therefore they get the extra point. They get the 1 slot. Not only seeing it, but being a decision maker, I think that makes me feel that evermore that we need to unpack some of these concepts and empower folks because most of the time we are on the side of the table where we are not making the decisions. And I mean, kudos to you if you actually understand and know what is being said about you and those closed doors. And so we want to unpack that today and to set this up, those who can watch me on video, for those who are on audio, explain, I'm wearing a special shirt to represent executive presence. It is for those who are not watching, it is two astronauts putting in a massive pin location on the moon or you can assume it's Mars. And that is what executive presence is. When you hear that term, it is like an Alien out of space kind of a term that also has executive presence. And you're like, what is it? Can't you even explain it? Is it something unattainable that only few who can go fly out to space and put their stamp on it, that this is where we are? Is that what executive presence is? Is it gravity? Is it anti gravity that we're talking about? So I think that is the gravity of this term is not lost on us. All right, let me unpack some myths. And in my work with different types of folks in industry and also various levels, I would say there are a few myths that I commonly hear. So let's go through them. Number one, executive presence is only for senior leaders. How many of you have heard that? Okay, so executive presence is all about appearance. That's the second one heard of that too. Okay, another one, the third one is executive presence is about being charismatic and extroverted. So if you're not that, good luck to you. And my personal favorite is executive presence is something you either have or you don't. You either have or you don't. And personally, that makes me. It makes me feel terrible. Because for people who believe that, I think Sujat, you and I know from just experience, probably like from our consulting days, is there are many flavors of leaders, and there are many flavors of leadership success. Now speaking and communicating and executive presence can be learned. And I think that's probably the biggest myth that we want to bust today. So let me rephrase those myths. Let me recapture those myths and see if there's anything else that stands for my side. I think what I heard is one, hey, this is only if you're a leader, a senior leader in a leadership position, that you're gonna actually have executive presence. It only matters. Then. It only matters. It only matters. It only matters. Then I would assume the other myth I've heard is that, hey, only when you get to be a leader that you get to have executive presence. And so that is. I'll call BS on that, because the same way, when you think about people management training, that you're not a people manager. And I used to see that in across corporations that you're an individual contributor. You don't get any management leadership training. And then you certainly have responsibility of real humans to manage, and you go to Management Training 101. And I would argue that why is this training not being shared with individual contributors? They're like, well, they're not managing people. I'm like, so you can be a jerk till you get A position of being a manager. And you have not shown any muscle of managing others or being nice to others. All of a sudden you're not a jerk. Exactly. Because the title changed in workday or whatever your system of record is and you now are no longer a jerk. Right. The attribute there is a new title manager by the way, no longer a jerk. And you are now there. Hey, now you got management training. So I think one that is because you could have someone who can say is leadership material and folks who can always make negative comments on others because they want to pull them back and say well, he or she is acting as if they're a leader. Like no, no, they're not acting as if they're the leader. They're representing leadership qualities. And executive presence is a leadership quality that doesn't only come when you become a leader. You may become a leader. You become a leader because of it, number one. Number two, hey, some people just have it. It's natural. Sure, there are always things that some people are good at naturally. But you can always be deliberate and develop them. We've developed them like we've as immigrants thrived in corporate America. That's how we've developed ourselves. You can it is so it is learnable as long as you're teachable. It is not only when you get to that rank, it is what will raise your ranks even if you do not have the position of power right now. Like those two. And then third for I think it is oftentimes the measure of executive presence is taken based on a prominent identity. So if you're a male and you're male from a majority, let's say race, you are the sort of reference point for what executive presence is and what you were referring as charisma. You need to be extroverted BS and that I've done that for myself. I've coached people who are introverts and get them changed the opinion about them by everyone else by helping them showcase what will become executive presence without being an extrovert. And you know, they've been. They're now leaders in some of the major companies. So completely agree. So these myths are real because people experience them. But these myths don't hold value if they're holding you back. So I think to start off, let's define what is executive presence and maybe we can share how it has played out for us. That can help us myth bust these myths while explaining what executive presence is. That can be something tangible for our audience. So what is executive presence? So I'll share A three part framework around executive presence so we can all have a common definition around it. And so the first part is gravitas, gravitas meaning how you act. The second part of executive presence is appearance, meaning how you look. And the third part of executive presence is communication, meaning how you speak. And you're probably thinking, Giselle, that seems like such a very simple framework for such a hard and complicated topic which look it is, these are all equally, all equally hard, yet attainable in, you know, and you can work towards it. And what I will say also is, in my experience, in my work with others around executive presence and communications training is there's one in particular which is communication that, that makes a difference. And the reason why I say that is in gravitas there's very subjective, you know, subjectiveness in terms of that like gravitas, say, you know, where I grew up on Wall street is very different than what gravitas looks like in say the tech world or perhaps other industries. And similarly appearance, like how you look, what you wear and can also defer by industry. Yet when you hear someone speak clearly, confidently and in a manner that is easily understandable, they are undeniably will get the comment of, no, you speak very well or you are, you are very articulate. And for me as a person of, you know, one, learning the English language as a, as a third, fourth language and also two, figuring out how to navigate the feedback around. You do great technical work but you need more presence. I felt this was something that I could work towards and put points on the board for myself and progress. And so whilst I shared a three part framework, from my perspective, communication is really the differentiator that will get you closer to having executive presence. So I, you know, I knew gravity was going to come somewhere, so you said gravitas. So there's. That's right. And I was struggling earlier. That's my T shirt on fighting gravity. On point, on point, on point. There you go. So there's, I think, so let me unpack from my side. I think I love the framework around gravitas, as in how you show up. Then there's the appearance of like how you look and then the third is how you communicate. Correct. Communication is not necessarily just speaking how do you communicate? And so I think, let me start with like how you show up. Gravitas actually, how do you show up and how do you look and how do you communicate? They're all interconnected depending on the context. So for example, you are, let's say in a tech, very modern. Workplace setting. And in a setting where the culture around you is everyone's in T shirts and jeans, right? If you're encoding, coding or even non coding in tech, just generally the culture great there. It's like appearance may not mean that you need to be dressed up a certain way. What it means is that for the setting, for the kind of meeting that you're having and the kind of discussion you're having, how do you show up? If you are online chatting and you're a leader, for example, you're a community leader, you run a community, how do you show up to give people value in a very succinct way that immediately solves their answers and gives them something that is short rather than having to go read a thesis that's an example of gravitas that this person has presence, how are they showing up? And then in person, how are they looking? May not be that much of a deal. Let's say in that setting. That doesn't mean that, hey, when you become a leader, how you look, you can just wear a T shirt and go anywhere. No, if you're going for funding and depending on who you're pitching to, they might be used to a certain culture or a certain way of like a dress code, you're gonna dress differently. If you are in Europe, if you're in England versus you're in New York versus San Francisco, what is the common normal, how people judge you is going to be very different. So I guess, I guess the. The way to summarize is like, let me put this analogy. It's a room. So how do you own the room? And there before walking into the room, you do need to know that even though your identity is different in this room, if this is room where the rules have already been set that before you walk in, you have to look a certain way. So you're giving yourself the most chances by saying, hey, the easiest thing I need to do is I dress up, but I don't lose my identity. I add my own style to it, right? So that as you're walking in, people look at you and say, all right, this person belongs in this room, right? Without you even having, say, saying a word. Now, as you carry yourself in there, how you communicate, right? And how you show up, that is where the game changer happens for you. So we know why this matters. So let's kick it back to the professional world and something a tactical and strategic question for you. Sujat. So let's assume that AI artificial intelligence. Let's assume that everyone in the working world has a common knowledge and use this in our day to day. And so it levels a technical playing field. What then are the skill sets that make someone more competitive in this new AI era? So level playing field. Everyone sort of normalized on using AI. And there's humans who are AI plus human operated. Correct. So number one is empathy, right? Understanding that the human operating with AI, what is it? What's the impact, how you motivate them? Because a lot of the work that is could be scripted is your as a leader as well is coming through AI and you as a, as a person who is. That's a lower in the run. You're also like, hey, my work is done through AI, so how do I stand out? I think number one is empathy. That empathy is for includes user experience, understanding where everyone else is coming from, communication, being able to communicate in a way and get people to make a decision that is beyond the data. And you're trying to sort of data informs, but stories transform that you're getting them through a story and be able to present that in a way that humans will resonate with it. So because everything else if AI has engineered it in how we communicate what we package, what we produce as deliverables, because as ads and creativity, who's going to stand out in that crowd is a very unique human essence. And the way you can capture someone's imagination and attention and the way you do that is having empathy for where the other person is coming from. What are they thinking, what decisions do they need to make? How do you, what do they value? And for you to communicate that in a simple human way that they feel that you understand them and what you're providing is of value. And what you're communicating makes it easy for them to make a decision on either something you want, while also understanding that hey, there's something of value for them in making that decision. I think that is where executive presence stands out even more. Because you can communicate your documents, your code, your analysis. If AI is doing that for you, how do you package it to tell a story? For someone to take action, someone to be a cheerleader for, it is key. And I'll again use storytelling as a reference. What is great storytelling is you start off with a character that needs to go from point A to point to point B, a transformation, but they somehow have a conflict in the middle. And now you're like, I want this character to really go through that transformation. So the more you can show up as with Presence, where you build a character that people want to root for. And they want you to go through point A to point B and you're showing them the conflict where they can either help you or guide you on doing that. This is going to be key because everything else by AI is going to just seem cookie cutter for people. Why it stands out. And we are seeing that now in terms of the way people communicate and the types of deliverables and what you shared around empathy and communication. And I really, really resonate with data, inform stories, transform. That is beautiful. The one thing that I would add is business judgment. Business judgment, your ability to quickly synthesize, provide clarity. And if whether you are in a decision making capacity as a leader or you're a person doing your day to day work, you're more junior in your role. You make decisions all day long. How vast is this deliverable? How much data is enough insufficient for my delivery? Deliverable? So the faster you can do that and how you can articulate and I think tagging back to communication, how you articulate your thinking and getting people aligned, that's how I think about business judgment as the third pillar, if you will, to what Shujat mentioned around empathy. And I would say they integrate in this way, right? That your synthesis has to be empathetic because AI can right now synthesize a lot of things. But does it really, is it personalized for you? Empathy, end of the day, is personalized synthesis for you to make a decision without feeling like that you're being played at. For example, early in my career, I in consulting, we were working for a client who was a heavy equipment manufacturer and I was an individual contributor, a senior consultant. But the engagement manager, the way he would operate, I was just, I saw charisma, I saw the way he would communicate. People respond, difficult clients will, you know, listen to him as well. And I had already been given feedback around executive presence. I was trying to figure out. I said, let me ask him and maybe he can teach me someone who's very junior. So I asked, you know, what do you do and what do you think that where can I take the first step? And he said something so tactical that now seems tactical, but was so beneficial for me because that's what I needed. And that is a reflection of his own executive presence. He said that, okay, at your level right now, you are expected that there's a list of things to get done as part of a project every week and you'll get those done for you. Is that can you communicate not only what you've done, but can you also think about what's outside of your scope, what's coming ahead. You want to keep the client informed, keep your leadership informed so that they are at peace around, hey, he's. He's got it covered. And you're also sharing some perspective of your learning that you are you just sharing that you are a thinker. And what you need to do is, end of the week, no one's asking, you, send a few bullets. You can start off by sending them to me, just if you're not comfortable. And then I want you to get to the point where you could send it to our partners and send it to our client as well. And just keep it unsolicited as this is. I just want to keep an update, keep it the same three bullets are going to each major section. So he helped me not only think about the format, help me think around. Okay, these are the areas that you say, what's done, what's coming, and then, hey, food for thought. That helped me at that level, how it played out later on, as I was going in my career, I was in a very tense, very sensitive merger and acquisition project, and I was running one of the streams that was part of a broader project, but was not the major one. And there were other people I had not given my MBA. There were MBAs from, like, top school, the people from pedigree, the way they carried themselves. And I was like, I'm not sure if this is me, but I will just stay within my lane. But because of this habit I had built of communicating, and it had an impact where leaders and partners would tell my managers that, wow, we really love this guy on task. He makes it very easy and he's a thinker. So they felt invested in helping me grow. And years forward, when I came to this point where the CEOs of both companies did a full day off site and all of the consultants were sitting and present and they wanted to discuss what the future is going to be after the merger has happened. And all I did was said, okay, I have a very small part in this engagement, but at least I build this muscle of, I'm going to take notes. So I took notes, made sense of those notes, and then just send this out to my engagement manager and partner, saying, hey, in case this helps everyone else, this is what I gather. And correct me if I'm wrong, this is what I gathered not only for my stream, but for the other streams as well. Number one, the reaction from the engagement manager and partner was like, wow, he took notes better than the person who officially had Note taking responsibility number two. It's a very unique perspective how he does not have a business school background. He's doing for the first time. He's in this tech industry for the first time as well. He's connected the dots around marketing, sales while I was looking at the services part, sales, operations, finance and whatever way he could think. But he's synthesized what he's heard and there's stuff that he's heard that we actually didn't capture. That is his take. Because again, the muscle had been built and the partner, one of the partners, lead partners who wouldn't even talk to anyone like, you know, below in his team, he emailed to my manager and said, wow, this person reflects executive presence. So it is in that room, even though I was not the one speaking, I was not the one with power. First of all, I showed up, listen, took notes, synthesized, communicated in and I had built the practice of how we communicate. Then even though I just sent an email, that's it. I didn't want to have a meeting with a partner to say, hey, by the way, I have this thought process. I, without me being in a room, my deliverable, which was that email, not even expected deliverable did the talking for me. And that's where I think they are. How you show up has two parts. One, when you're not in the room, what do you create? What do you create as a deliverable? Make it so high quality that from an aesthetics perspective, from a inside perspective, and make sure it's succinct that others want to forward it to others because it will make them look good. So your executive presence is happening. Your gravitas, your appearance, your communication is happening without you even being in those. And then the other setting is where when you actually are in the room and how you present all of this is practice for you to be able to practice it in person, which is a different muscle. Right. But it is again, visually, vocally, and then what you verbally actually say, right? And then how do you dress up and how do you present to others based on the who's in the room that is executive presence. That's what I learned, at least in that example. Well, I think in, in your different examples, what I gather is that there are different ways to. So even if we take one dimension around the appearance, which I think for most folks, they will think about how you dress or just like the literal physical appearance or perhaps posture, appearance can also mean different things. And I, I really enjoyed and I think it is poignant. Your example on meeting Notes, it is a superpower. So if you are listening, maybe you're more junior in your role, and maybe you are like me and be like, how many times am I going to have to take these notes and not speak in the room? Which is my, you know, first year in consulting. Right. It is a. It is a very strategic way to, one, learn how to synthesize and also to. To appear as if you are contributing. So I really liked the way you've explained that because it is not only like the face value of, you know, these contexts like gravitas or appearance or communication. There are multitudes of ways that you can. That you can reflect and exhibit this. And let me. This just reminds me, Giselle. And I think I'll explain everything. I should have said this earlier to make it actually easier and actionable for our viewer, our viewers, our listeners. And let me get to some tactics, like you would have heard from through other videos or like, from executive coaches or from, like, your company's training. Let's say what we're talking about, gravitas and appearance. You're like, okay, that all sounds good. But in the heat of the moment, how do I remember all of this? And I think the core foundation is communication. And in that communication is there's a packaging of the communication. It is the insights inside the communication that you own. And then the succinct, crisp level of how you. How those are said. Right. So that they carry. Right. Words are vessels of change that carry in people's minds. And if you are good at that, and that comes with practice, again, it can be learned. It's not just something that just comes naturally. Only it can be learned. You then hold confidence that you know your shits. Yeah, you know what you're talking about. You know your domain, you know how to package it. You know how to say it as well. Then when you add the other aspects of appearance, then, for example, if the first time you're on a stage or in a major meeting and you're like, okay, I need to dress up in a different way in this boardroom, for example, or in this. In front of a lot of people that are not. Not the way how normally dress up, you would not be worried. There'll be nerves. Those nerves immediately go away when you're like, but I know my material because this is my material. And in that material, when you start talking about it, everything else will become calm. Same thing on how you show up in the room, how you keep your eye contact, how do you use your vocals? You can learn It. And you can get nervous. Okay, how do I stay cautious of that? It comes back to if you've gotten your communication right, that foundation right, this you can practice. And in the moment, you will get it right. Right. Like the nerves go. I agree with foundations and practice. I think, you know, practice makes progress. I want to add a counterpoint. So, Shuja, as you know, I teach a course on executive communication. Executive communication and executive presence. And I suppose I will add a myth to when people think about training for executive presence. And you know, as we're sharing here, there are certainly tactics, but one thing that I want to underscore is you are never alone. You are never the person to judge yourself whether or not you have executive presence. Okay, so what do I mean by that? Perhaps you're, you know, I think in this Q1, 20, 26, people are probably going through performance reviews or annual planning. And I have never sat in a performance review or an annual planning where there were no negotiations and no debate. So where executive presence and the way you show up becomes hardest and where you will actually be tested is when you have conflict. And so that can also be practiced, but it is not easy. And so I think to your examples, what I really liked about your examples earlier, Sujad, is that, you know, one, the earlier you recognize that there is this thing called executive presence, the better off you are. Two, the earlier you realize that you can learn these things even better. Right. And three, practice makes progress. And so the. And perhaps you are not in the room making those negotiations or making those big deals. However, you could be synthesizing some important points. You could be doing what I'm doing now with Shuja and adding a counterpoint to something I agree with and also feel like we need to raise a different viewpoint. So these are all tech techniques that you can use, but it does start with foundations because there is. It is very difficult to have a contentious and productive negotiation, which in business, I think my. My other fundamental principle beyond, you know, executive communication really gets you is every day in business is a negotiation. Every conversation is a negotiation, even if it doesn't sound like that. And so that is you. You have to start somewhere you are never behind. And you can always kind of start with the small stuff if you. If you can do the small stuff, like, by the way, it's like no small stuff. Synthesizing an M and a deal. And. But if you could do that, you layer on these things. But I just want to underscore, you know, I've seen people in my class and These are, you know, pretty senior folks that are already leading big things and they are struggling. And I'm sharing that point because of some of the myths that we mentioned, right? Like all of a sudden you got promoted and now have a big team. And then, you know, promotion equals executive presence. It does not. And I'm also sharing it because for the folks that are taking these types of courses who are senior and if you are not there now know that this is a struggle for many, many people. And it is a struggle that perhaps can change in nature as you become even more senior. I'll give you a quick example. I'll categorize professionals in three buckets, simplifying this thing, but just for example. And I'll allude to Sujat's example. When you're early on in your career, let's talk like five plus to 10 years, you're, you know, you're focused on deliverables and delivering really well execution, right? And then the next part of you, so that's one, two is you're now managing deliverables, perhaps managing a few people, right? And so your delivery and execution one becomes compounded because you're not only delivering for yourself, you're also accountable for the people who are reporting to you. Which is why, you know, I really love the work that Shuja does around people management. Because getting promoted to a people manager does not mean, and certainly does not equal that you are a great people manager. Okay? And then number three are, let's call them folks who are managing business units. Perhaps these are, you know, senior director and above in the parlance of industry. It could also be your C levels. I'll throw them in there. So basically, senior leadership, accountable for really big stuff across the board in those three, those three categories of professionals. Even though it might seem like, oh, the people in category two or three are probably further off in their executive presence journey. What I will say is that is just not true. And it is not true because you are exercising different things. You know, in one and two, perhaps you are executing flawless deliverables or aligning people and getting people, you know to march towards a certain goal area. Three is really around negotiations with external parties, internal parties, discussing trade offs, and for the most part, you are dealing with conflict. So conflict resolution plus executive communication and presence are, are advanced. However, I am sharing this perspective because it does not stop. So don't ever feel like I get to this spot and somehow I will learn or I got to this spot. And why does everybody feel like they know what they're doing and I don't know what I'm doing. Just know that one, there is a spectrum and two, in each area of the spectrum. Spectrum there is something to be worked on. So I think you a terminology that I shared in one of our earlier our earlier podcast is be an Olympic learner. Doesn't matter whether you hold a director, senior director, vp, CEO level type of role. You will continuously learn. Because if you don't, well, hey, if you're lead negotiator for your company and you're managing really big deals, but guess what, you're managing really big deals against other people that also manage really big deals. Absolutely. Okay, so I will add another lens to it. So not counter. So I think, I love that you said that there's this foundation and then there's practice. So I think how does it happen sequentially? Do you do it in parallel? So I'll share like what worked for me. Yes. I think end of the end of this podcast, we should at least leave people, leave them some tactics and food for thought around what they should be practicing. But then also give them a framework around the foundation which is around communication and how do you go about it and also like give some examples around it. I think when you think about so gravitas communication, appearance T Communication is the foundation. How you show up, how do you look? You know, when you are I'm a movie buff. So when you watch like movies and stuff and you see someone, you're like, oh wow, this person is so charismatic. And if you ever seen those actors now outside of the movie and an interview, completely different, you start realizing that it's an act. They're acting, but it's an act. Not in a way that you're fake. Right. When you think about real life, it is that people become deliberate. They act a certain way, they carry themselves a certain way because they know whether we like it or not, others judge us, they have bias against us. If you happen to be someone who feels like the one and only in the room of power a lot of the times before you walk into the room and if you don't immediately show credibility, you've already been judged versus someone else who may come in and has no credibility, but they've already there's a likability factor. Right. That is the truth of the world and that's the truth that we're helping people with bus or fight against and make sure that they can get over these gatekeepers. So what I would say before we get to the foundation communication, because I think that's what we want to, we want to leave people with. Let's talk about like the gravitas and appearance. I think these are things that you can practice along the way. Every week, every month, you can pick low stakes experiments and high stakes experiments where you can practice. So what does that mean? For example, I'll give a list, I'll give a list of how it helped me over the years when as I was becoming in consulting now, dealing with clients and even leading the engagement with clients. This is the time when you know, so video conferencing is happening. Remember, you're in a major boardroom. You have to discuss something immediately. You're like you said, everything is a negotiation in business. So we had these star shaped like phones in the middle of the room. And what do you normally you're working crazy and now you put into this boardroom to get on a call, clients on the call, other stakeholders on the call, and you're negotiating. No one can see each other. Video conferencing was there, but not everyone had gotten caught up with it. And something I learned, right, they're like, hey, I realized that when I'm in person in that room versus when I was on that call, I was losing my energy to keep up with the negotiation and also keep up, stay on top of my game, how I'm communicating. And I thought, maybe I'm overworked. Till I went through a training, self went through a training. And the training was from. These were actors who were training you about appearance and gravitas. And they're like, well, when you sit, if you're ever taking a conference call as a bigger room, make sure that your seat is sort of tucked in and you're not leaning in. Because when you're leaning in the you're giving very little space for oxygen to flow through, right? And I'm like, wow, he actually went to that level. He's like, yeah, this is just size. It goes through. You're gonna lose your energy and you either gonna start speaking very loud versus keep the same tone and you know, or change your vocal tones based on the level, the kind of discussion you're having. And so this is a small thing. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna practice this now. I'm gonna try to find situations confident where the other person is not there. And I'm gonna see how it is. And then I had an accountability partner where like a peer or an analyst and said, hey, by the way, just in this chat, and I've kept that practice till now. When I was a director as well leader, where I would assign someone, mostly someone junior because also gives them confidence that I'm asking them that look at what does it feel right. Then they'll give me feedback and I'll act on it. So that's one where like, you could do the same thing for vocal where, hey, not every. Every day you're not going to go be presenting in a major room for a decision where you're going to quickly get judged. But you can simulate those rooms. You could be presenting at a lunch and learn. You could be presenting within your team meeting. And you tell yourself this is a high 10 situation. Even on one on one. Even on one on ones. Yeah. Vocal tones like exactly like in one on ones. As a manager, I used to this is a hack. I learned that end of the one on one. I would ask, hey, what was the most valuable thing for you? It not only was helpful for me for myself, but also for me on them because it told me like, what really helps this person. So am I overdoing this second? It also was an audition that if this person is able to synthesize this now there's a mental check for me as well on the person, right? So I think there are small things that you can practice eye contact. If someone says, hey, we're having a team celebration, can someone give like a recognition to someone? And you're like, I know this person. All I need to do is synthesize something three that people will remember this person, feel good about themselves. And it was memorable as it's funny. Let me stand up, look at the room, look around, keep eye contact. Right? So there are ways even outside of work that you practice gravitas and appearance. Coming to appearance depends on the setting. In consulting, we were trained that you, you dress. You don't dress two levels to two up from the client. Just try to say one up but not one down, but just slightly up. Right? So you're going to dress very differently. If I was in. So when I joined in consulting, everyone was in suits, but we're serving someone in a refinery and I'd work there. I brought my safety shoes in and I became the most influential consultant in there because the people trusted me, right? So if you're looking at the setting where you're going in, you do have to. There's an appearance game, right. You do have to play. You're not going to go in the White House for a meeting dressed a certain way, right. That you're like, hey, no one's going to take you seriously. So there are certain norms that you got to learn and you can practice them, get comfortable in your skin in different ways. And then the foundation, the foundation of all of this, everything else you can practice, the foundation is communication. And I'll leave with this and I think I'll ask you, like, how should we think about framing that? But before that I'll leave this caviar. There are a lot of charismatic, good looking people we see publicly in companies and in other settings as leaders, but you do not respect them for what and how they communicate. Right. And take some of the iconic receive jobs, completely change the way of communicating, right? With investors, with the audience, with the community. So brand, gravitas, appearance, all of that you can practice and then eventually you can make it your own as an identity at the way you want to come across. The thing that is really going to unlock you is that foundation of communication. And over to the communication guru, Giselle. How do you think we should, what's a framework we can leave people behind that they can start working on as they think about their communication muscle? Yeah, good question. And what I would start by saying is put yourself in the shoes of the person that you're communicating with. And to your point of practicing, let's practice as if you were speaking to an executive or a very senior person that you are interfacing with. And there are three questions that every single senior leader is thinking about in every conversation. Question one is what's the problem? Is normally you don't come to a person to, you know, share generally good news or perhaps what is the problem? What is the what is the topic? And number two, why does it matter? And number three, what do you want me to do about it? So you have those three questions, what's the problem? Why does it matter? What do you want me to do about it? Like what's the so what? So what? So why are those, why is it those three questions? And I get a lot of pushback on this, that one, that it's very simple. And number two, all senior leaders possibly can't think like this. Well, I will share with you. It's on average this is generally what they're thinking and here's why. Sujat, if you are a very senior leader, you've got a lot of stuff on your mind and you've got a lot of problems to solve and you have a lot of opportunities to figure out what, you know, where to go next. All right, so if I'm coming to you with either a problem or an idea, I Should be prepared to tell you why it's such a big deal. Like why am I taking your time, right. To, to, to share this piece of news, right? And I think the biggest thing. So I think those are like a no brainer, right? Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell Shujat something that I found. Or like in your example, here's what I, you know, here's my synthesis of the conversation or three things that I thought were really important, right? And the thing that I think so I think that can be practiced. It feels table stakes and it feels very achievable, right? And if you can do that well and add this one thing of what do you want me to do about it? You are even more golden. Why? Because most senior leaders have very minimal time. They are the most expensive people in the organization. So when you think about expense, you have to think about minimizing expenses, right? So if I'm going to shoe jot and being like, here's the big deal, here's why it's such a big deal and I want you to know about this because you need to be the signatory on this deal before we can move forward. Or you need to give me three people in order to make this happen. Or leadership can't figure out what the priority is. So you need to go in there and tell us what the trade off mechanism is so we can actually do what we need to do. If you can do that, you are helping because at the end of the day, you want to make your bosses look good, right? You're helping them do their job better by answering those three questions. Yeah, completely agree. And I'm surprised that actually not surprised that people are push, pushing back on that because I can give like some tangible analogies and examples around. So, so can I actually share what the pushback generally is? Yeah, yeah. I get it from very, very senior people. For to communicate, it'd be like you're. You being like, well, just I can't go to my CEO and tell them like three sentences, right? And what I'm saying is you start with these three sentences. And if they, if they say like, if Shuja, I'm like, shujat, there's a cricket game that is so expensive. But we need to get to it because I know it's important for you. So I need you to give me an AMEX card so I could purchase that thing so you can go, right? And then your reaction is probably going to be something like how you're reacting right now, big smile on your Face, right? So I think that signals to me like, one, what I just told you matters, and two, you're gonna be like, well, what's your response to that? If I told you that, well, what is the first thing that would. You would say? So, of course, go for it. Great. And then I'm gonna say, I need you to clear this for me so that I can actually purchase it. Yeah. So I mean, you can go into the details, right? Like, then you could be like, well, how much is this thing? Right? I'll be like, actually, it's like 10 grand for two tickets. And then we can have the debate. But if you don't frame it up, it's. It's just hard for someone to. To engage in dialogue that's meaningful if you don't frame it like that. So I'm not saying it stops with these like three sentences. Okay, let's call it three to five. But you keep it there, right? It gives the optionality for your leader to give you a reaction, and it gives you space to actually give the data, which is different from, I don't know how many times you've seen this in your workshop job where someone starts with a soliloquy, right? They speak for two minutes around this problem that they can't move forward, and they're so blocked, and that's why the client is unhappy. And they've come to this meeting so many times asking for xyz and two minutes later, we don't know, like, so was that a summary or do you want us to do something? Or who are you talking to? Are you talking to me or are you talking to the governing body? It becomes very confusing. But this is anchoring simple steps, giving people the opportunity to debate. So I actually think this should be. There should not be more than three questions. Keeps it simple. I really love this framework. I agree with you. Sequencing of it may change depending on the level of the person. I'll give some examples. So. So before I get there, I think some. Some context. Number one is that the. What is executive presence? And why someone says you have executive presence because you ended up doing something that was not on paper your responsibility. And it showed gravitas, appearance, communication, something that the person above you also sees is highly valued. Right. As they grow. And when you become a lead or if they happen to be the CEO, they know this is how they should be acting. And not everyone's perfect. When they see someone else doing it as well or get close enough to it, they're like, wow, this is close enough. To what I want to be or I see myself in them or what I aspire to be. So it brings that likability that, okay, maybe this person has executive presence, but end of the day, what it's doing is it's making them look good. It helping them solve some problem and do that problem in a way that it helps them look good. I'm not talking about technology problem, but even if a technology problem, the people who've grown up as technology leaders are the ones who have these three questions nailed. The order can change. And here's what I mean by that. You are. Everything is a negotiation. You are either going out pitching to get money as a founder or convincing someone to pay you for your service as a founder or inside a company, you're always going into asking something from your boss, like in your example, or you need something someone higher up has to do in there. You need something, you need them to do something. You have a personal interest as well on the other side. Remember that. Where are they coming from? They're conditioned to be a certain way. So if you're an investor, you're a customer, or you're a leader in a company all day long, you are conditioned that things are coming to you as a customer. There's tons of ads coming to you as an investor, there's tons of pitches coming to you as a leader, you have tons of people coming to you to get your. And as what you end up doing is you train yourself that I'm going to say no majority of the time, so I selectively can say yes. So they are training themselves to say no. And if you're coming in and saying, hey, the thing they want to do is they're waiting for, hey, what's. What do I need to do? Yeah. And do I need to say no? Yes. So first you start off, if it's higher up as a leader, hire a person, limited time. You always start off with the third question in my example is that you say, hey, this is what, what we need. There's a framework I used to follow and teach my team as well, which was when you go to executive meetings, it was answer, context, explanation. Yep. Give them the exact answer that they need so they'll make a decision. They're all smart people. They are all day long making decisions. If they don't get it, they say, well, explain more. And you're like, well, here's the context. Stop there. And if they say, well, I don't get it, like, okay, here's an example to your example of the Silico is that people start with, well, here's an example and here's what it means. And now what I want. And you've already lost them in the student. So I think number one, you start with understanding who the audience is, what they're conditioned to do and how you want them to say yes, that they are very judicious in seeing so upfront. Tell them what is it that you want? You need them to take a decision. A tactical way is when I used to send emails and I know that email is going to require a lot of detail in there so that the leader also doesn't have to follow up as an email. If I'm right doing written communication, I would immediately in the top in red say, here's the decision I need you to take. And it'll be one line and then I'll say for here's a context and I would give a summary of the problem and why this matters. And I'll say if you need more, here's a detailed version, FYI. Yep. And I used to get emails back saying I'd really appreciate. Because when you highlight in red, they immediately know where they need to go and it's on the top. And then they're like, okay, do I skim it later on or do I get the summary? A lot of people are on their phones, so three lines, they want to quickly read something. So if you have more than three questions, it's a long. They'll be like, come on, it's a thesis. Well, then user experience also on your app, right? If you're not on the first page, the ability for someone to scroll, like for someone to scroll down, it has to be quite compelling. Exactly. And I think one of the framework really like is so what now what? And what you're trying to get is here's what we need you to do, right? The problem, why it matters to us, what's the impact going to be? And the decision that you normally you should package it up is like what we need to do is like, hey, so here's the so what? Which is covered by the problem and the why it matters and the now what is where, what we need you to do. So love this framework. I think this sets up the foundation, the practice. I think coming back to we started off like why it matters, especially in the AI era. Think everything we talked about from a practice perspective. You can practice that with AI as well, right. You can go build a chatbot, you can use existing publicly available ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, whatever you want to Use to practice these exercises because while I can help you write, that's not the old part of communication. Executive presence is in the moment. What do you do? And that comes with practice with humans. AI can give you a leapfrog jump, especially for those who feel like they're being left behind. Where you could simulate Personas in AI and practice this back and forth. Use your voice mode as well to see what you look, feel like and you understand what happens to you when you actually do it. So now it's up to whoever is disciplined to practicing it. And then on the communication side as well, the Foundation. Use AI to get better at communicating, but not use AI for your communication. Learn the structures, learn how you get better and better at empathy in what will really get someone convinced. And you can experiment from there. I think that is AI right now is an unlocking mechanism for the framework we went through as well. And you can put this framework actually in AI and say, hey, I need to make this decision. Here's the level of the audience. Take these three questions, give me an answer, and you ask yourself, how does it feel? Even if you're not a believer in this framework, ask yourself, how does this feel? And I think that that is key. And what I'll end with this is again, for people who get left behind, people who are immigrants, people who are one and the only, that there's bias against you. You can use AI and this understanding of executive presence to practice in private and remove biases before even getting feedback. You can show up with executive presence through practice with AI and others. Most people will not have caught up with AI. They're all pretending, a lot of them. You will stand out by doing this and it's a leapfrog moment for you. Rather than wait for someone to tell you don't have executive presence, you explain what executive presence is, understand what is for you, partner with AI as a sparring partner and then go deliver it in person. You will stand up. As always, thank you for listening. If you like this, please make sure you like hit subscribe. We're on audio platforms as well as on video. Make sure you subscribe to YouTube the video and then go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music and listen to us there as well. And please leave any comments to us. We always appreciate comments. We got a lot of comments in DMs as well, but let us know so that's what we know. We're helping anyone and if one person is helped, our work is done. Thank you. Until next time.