Carleah Summers: Helping Mothers Recover from Addiction by Keeping Families Together

Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Heart of the Matter. I'm your host, Elizabeth Vargas. I hope everybody is calm and relaxed as we head into the holiday season. And I'm laughing at myself because I am none of those things. At any rate, it is a special time of year and can be challenging but important to focus on what's good in your life and be grateful for it. We have a really, really great podcast today. Karlia Summers recognized a problem because she was experiencing it, actually herself. Get this. Only 10% of mothers who need treatment for substance use disorder actually get it. The reasons are varied and obvious. Women are afraid that they will lose custody of their kids. They're afraid of just being separated from their kids while they get their help, the help that they desperately often need. So Carlia saw this and felt like, we need to do something. And she did. She started something called Andrea's House, which is a living facility for women and their kids to stay together while the women get the treatment that they need. Andrea's House offers lots of different services and support. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Karlia Summers. Karlia Summers, welcome to Heart of the Matter. It's great to have you here.

Speaker B: Thank you, Elizabeth. It's great to be here with you.

Speaker A: So I want to talk to you about Andrea's House. Why did you feel it was so important, so critical to have a treatment facility where mothers can be with their children?

Speaker B: Sure. So when I was struggling with addiction myself, um, I got pregnant and I ended up when My son was 10 months old. I realized that I really, really needed to get some help in the young phases of his life. And the reason being is because I had a drug addicted parent growing up and I knew I did not want my son, um, to have to experience what I experienced. And so I remember when I was going through that process, it was so incredibly challenging trying to find childcare, uh, trying to decide what meeting to go to, who's going to watch the baby, trying to get a job, all of these things. And it was so incredibly complicated. And once I got into the field, I wanted to create a way that would help mothers be reunified, but also to keep their children rather than having to be split apart during that process.

Speaker A: We know a lot of women don't get treatment who need it and who actually want it and want to do the work. And they don't do it because it would mean losing their children or losing access to their kids for some time.

Speaker B: Exactly. So that was the thing, was to create a model where they could not only get themselves better, but they could do so alongside of their children. And so that was really the inspiration behind the program and making sure that, you know, there's so many ways to tear families apart. We want it to be that one way to keep families together. Um, and so that was the goal, and that's always been the dream.

Speaker A: Why aren't there more places that do this? Why do you think that we don't have many, many more Andrea's houses?

Speaker B: That's such a great question. Um, I get asked that a lot. It's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. And typically, you're with. We're with our mothers anywhere from a year to two years. The average time is 12 months to 18 months. Most programs go six to nine months. And then they want to discharge, um, the mother or the female out back into society. And what we found is that it's just not enough time, especially when they need to learn parenting skills and to be able to survive out here in this world. And so we keep them as long as necessary. And a lot of people are not willing to invest that amount of time into the mothers.

Speaker A: I was struck by the slogan, when you Google your website, the first thing that pops up is saving lives one mother at a time. In essence, Andrea's house doesn't just save the life of that woman, it saves the life of that child.

Speaker B: That's correct. We really focus on one thing that was really important in my own personal life that I take into the work I do every day is breaking the generational curse. We don't want this to continue. It's a pattern. And what we really want to do is we let the families recover together. So we even work with the families of the women that are in the program to kind of heal everyone so they can move forward. And this is not something that their children are dealing with later on.

Speaker A: How old are the kids that you are helping at Andrea's house?

Speaker B: So we take anywhere from 0 to 9 years old, and so they. And then also pregnant women. So we. I just had our hundredth woman in the program that also gave birth, um, about four weeks ago. So it was really exciting time and really just reminds us of why we're there and why we do what we do.

Speaker A: And the older kids, do they go to school? Obviously. They must. They do, yeah.

Speaker B: We're about a half mile from an elementary school. We work hand in hand, uh, with. With that school. And they do an incredible job of getting the children in when they come into the program. Doesn't matter if they come in in the middle of the school year or if they come in at the end. They do a great job of getting them in so they feel included and everybody is where they need to be.

Speaker A: Are the moms able to really focus the way you need to focus on your own recovery? Obviously, it's hard because we have an issue, an addiction crisis in this country.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Is it difficult for these moms to focus on the work that needs to be done when they have their child with them, a child who needs a lot of love and needs a lot of care and attention?

Speaker B: It is extremely difficult. And especially, Elizabeth, in this season where we saw a halt to the childcare vouchers, uh, we've had to go to the drawing board to create a program within our program to be able to help 0 to 3 because they're not school age yet, because it was becoming so distracting to the mothers in their recovery. So the answer to your question is extremely challenging for them to focus on recovery when there's kids involved as well, and the childcare prices are not getting any lower.

Speaker A: So how are you managing this? How does that work?

Speaker B: So what we're doing right now, we have revved up our fundraising, I think, more than we ever have. We've had some very generous donors. I can't say enough about Project Maryland and our community, our foundation, um, local donors, um, and then we have donors outside of the state. But they have really answered that call of us needing to be able to assist with childcare. So we've bought more volunteers in to assist with this. It's all hands on deck at this point.

Speaker A: What are some of the stories of some of the moms you're treating?

Speaker B: So most of the moms that come into our program unfortunately come from households where there were drugs and alcohol already introduced. Their parents were drug addicted. They had siblings who were drug addicted. And so this has become a way of life for them. And so really the challenge is, for us is to help them understand that they do not have to take this pattern into their children's lives. And so most of their stories involve. This has been a long, a, uh, long time of just constant drug and alcohol abuse.

Speaker A: So you're talking about people who've been. Who are long term in the grip of, of their addictions.

Speaker B: Correct. And a lot of times their parents are still drug addicted. So you're, you're trying to help a child whose parents are still not living. Right. Some of them are incarcerated. Some of them have even passed, um, due to their addictions.

Speaker A: What about the generational trauma? Why is that so hard to break? Why do we constantly see these patterns of parents using and abusing substances and their children following in their footsteps in that behavior? Why is the cycle so hard to break?

Speaker B: So I know for me personally, I've said, you know, I never wanted to be like my dad. I never wanted to use drugs, be unreliable, not show up, you know, And I ended up using that as a coping skill when I had my own personal trauma. And so I believe it's just learned behavior. Uh, when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, this is what we've learned, and this is what we've seen. And not having ways to treat that loneliness or that trauma leads us to different areas that we wouldn't go to if we had the support systems in place. But instead, we turn into the environments that we're accustomed to, and before we know it, we're. We're right down the same path.

Speaker A: Tell me a little bit about your story. How did you grow up? And then how did you end up starting to do the very thing you swore you wouldn't?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I. I always say I did not have a bad childhood, but I had bad things happen to me in my childhood. And, um, I was sexually abused at the age of 8 by a family member, um, until the age of 10. And I acted out through. I got in lots of fights, um, became very violent, very isolated, didn't trust. And then I went to college.

Speaker A: Did your parents know? Did you. Didn't anybody know?

Speaker B: My mom didn't really know, um, and my stepdad didn't know. I was very good at masking it, and it really didn't get out of control until I got to college. I, um, was very good at academics and throwing myself in the sport, so I was good at masking a lot of that pain. And I had a foot surgery in which I was prescribed a huge amount of opioids.

Speaker A: And what year was this?

Speaker B: Uh, this was in 2000. In 2001.

Speaker A: Okay. So back when maybe doctors weren't as cognizant and people like you were as, uh, cognizant about opioids and the danger. It was starting to bubble up, but it wasn't widely known the way it is today.

Speaker B: Exactly. And so I. Between partying and those being introduced, it was the perfect cocktail for me. I didn't feel that shame anymore. I didn't feel that guilt of my abuse. I didn't feel anything. And that's exactly what I wanted. And it Was just off to the races from there. Um, and so once I got pregnant with my son, I was able to stop drinking. I still use marijuana during the beginning of my pregnancy, but I was able the last trimester to not use it all. But once I had him, I suffered greatly from postpartum depression, which went undiagnosed for many months. And so I self medicated again with drugs and alcohol.

Speaker A: Talk about that for a second, because I think that's a very common thing. Yeah, a lot of women suffer from postpartum depression. I had, I think I went to a doctor convinced I had it and they just told me I was anxious. But I really do believe that whatever it was, whatever you want to call it, that period of time after you have a baby, you know you're having a hormonal cyclone in your body.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And, um, and a lot of women really, really struggle. And what we don't really talk about is that some women begin to self medicate, especially, uh, when they go to doctors who say, you're fine, you know, you just had, it's a little postpartum depression, go home, and they're not being taken seriously or helped by doctors, so they start to self medicate.

Speaker B: Yeah. So that's one of the things I've really dove into over the last year. I'm currently in the process of becoming certified in perinatal mental health. Um, because we have seen so many times within our program, the women will go, they'll be fine when they give birth and we'll see that instant flip, the depression, not wanting to leave the room, not wanting to be near their babies. And I want it to be able to be more hands on. I know for everything you just said, when I went to the doctor, it was just, oh, it's normal, you're not getting sleep, you're, you know, it's normal. And it wasn't normal. I felt like I was going insane and I couldn't get anyone to take it seriously. Um, and so that's one of the things that I never want these women, um, these mothers to have to deal with in the program. And we pay very close attention to that.

Speaker A: You started after getting, after stopping all the substance use, that's when you started to use again because of that postpartum depression.

Speaker B: That's correct.

Speaker A: Um, that is not an uncommon thing. A lot of women postpartum, especially because they maybe spent the last nine months not drinking, not doing anything, they feel horrible, they want to stop feeling horrible. And you see a lot of women start to pick up Alcohol, you know, that glass of wine turns into many glasses of wine at night. That's a common thing with substance use disorder.

Speaker B: It is. And we tell our mothers, you know, now we have assessments in place. We have a lot of parameters in place so that we're constantly checking to make sure. Because a lot of times what we realize is they don't even realize, um, that they're feeling a certain way. They attribute it to, I'm tired, you know, until certain questions are asked. And so, um, very grateful for the work that has been done on perinatal mental health to educate us on how to handle that and keep mothers safe after they give birth.

Speaker A: What are you finding, by the way? I was struck by this statistic that 15 to 25% of pregnant and postpartum women have mental health and substance use disorders. 15 to 25%.

Speaker B: That's a lot.

Speaker A: That's like one in four.

Speaker B: Uh, and yes, it's a lot.

Speaker A: We're so slow to recognize this. It's amazing to me that it's sort of like the way the whole medical community has just woken up to hormone replacement therapy when it comes to perimenopause and postmenopausal women.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, uh, is this just a function of. We don't pay much attention to women's health. What is it?

Speaker B: I really. I think it's a lot of that, but I think it's also a lot of wanting to put everybody in a box. Right. It's every one shoe does not fit all, you know, and. And I always say that it is so important that we're asking that we have that empathy to ask, and we don't. We don't shame people for how they feel. You know, there's a lot of that, and I've seen a lot of it with the providers, and a lot of it, um, which I'm learning in doing this certification, is the cost of the assessments and the treatment for postpartum is why a lot of providers are not asking, uh, about this, which we definitely have to find something to do about that because it is. It's detrimental, um, definitely to recovery.

Speaker A: And it hurts not just in this case, a mother, but hurts her child.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: There is for so me, for so many people in general. They don't reach out for help. They don't ask for help. They're in denial about their own problem, or they're, most importantly, too ashamed and embarrassed to ask for help. That shame must be exponentially higher when it comes to a mother who, you know, mothers are supposed to be caretakers. And we have this idealized version of what a mother is. For a mother to raise her hand and say, I'm addicted, that must be a really difficult thing. Do you find that to be true?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um, we're expected to be superwomen. We cook, we clean, we take care of the kids, we juggle all of the things. Right. And to take it one step further, um, in the black culture, we are expected. We don't cry, we don't show weakness. And that is very much, um, something I carried into adulthood. And I was very hesitant to ask for help because I had been raised by such strong women and had seen it all my life. And so when I needed the help, it was like, hey, we don't ask for help. We just suck it up and we figure it out. And trying to break that stigma within the black culture has also been something that I want to work towards because we don't have to suck it up and it is okay to ask for help.

Speaker A: I didn't know that there was that stigma in the black culture. Do you think that's different from. It is, like, for the white culture or any other race?

Speaker B: I, I think that. I think that everybody, every woman feels some sense of that, But I think in the black culture, it is more. It is way more prevalent. I treat way less black women than I do, um, any other race, um, in the program. Um, and it just speaks. It's not shocking, the statistics, not shocking to me at all. Um, it is that hesitancy, um, not only to ask for help, but also the involvement that we've had with the system. By time we get to that point, we're hesitant to reach out to help, for help because we don't want to involve the system any more in our lives than it has already been. And so that is also a deterrent for a lot of mothers.

Speaker A: Some of the kids who are there at Andrea's house with their moms are old enough to ask questions.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: What do they ask and what do you tell them?

Speaker B: So a lot of times, and especially if they're being reunified out of, um, the foster care system, they'll ask, does my mom love me? That is one of the biggest questions, uh, and one of the most breaking questions, um, that we get asked, and I always can get on their level and tell them, your mom loves you very much, but she's sick and she's trying to get some help. And it almost always is a. It is just a, uh, uh, gut wrenching moment because it brings tears to your eyes when a. When a little person is asking you something like that, but then you see this. This beautiful thing happen where it's like, I want to help mom. And so we try to make it so that they understand that this is an illness. It's not. It's not something that they. They want or they chose. This is something they need help with. And so that. That is typically. That is the biggest question and the most frequently asked question.

Speaker A: And it's not their fault.

Speaker B: And it's not their fault at all. At all.

Speaker A: Gosh.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker A: How old is your son now?

Speaker B: So my son is now 20 years old, and he is getting. Yeah, he's getting ready to graduate from Salisbury University and will become an educator, um, and is working with y'. All. Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: So, what a blessing he has been in my life. And we do a lot of speaking together and educating mothers who think that this isn't possible. At that point, I didn't think it was possible either. But to see the success that he has had and to have him standing alongside me has been more than I could ever ask for.

Speaker A: And what does he tell audiences? Like, why is it important they hear from your son who grew up, you know, with a mom who was. Had to really fight?

Speaker B: So one of the biggest things he talks about is. And. And we always say we grew up together because we. We really did. Um, and he. The biggest thing he says, he talks about is this, the importance of support, not giving up, you know, on that person that you love and being there for them, even when things don't always look the way you want it to look. Um, and so he is very good at talking about getting in the programs, talking to people if you don't understand, um, what's going on. Because in early recovery, there's times where you have difficulty verbalizing where you are and how you feel. Right. So those things.

Speaker A: Difficulty recognizing and naming what you feel.

Speaker B: Exactly. And so he. He stresses the importance of mentors and getting into programs where people can walk you along through this.

Speaker A: And clearly, you have broken the generational curse that was in your own family.

Speaker B: Yes. So, um, not only, you know, was I able to, you know, get my son off to college, but I also adopted my youngest sibling when he was 10 years old, and I had five years of sobriety. Um. Um. And so I was. Yeah, able to keep him out of that lifestyle. And. And he is very successful as well now, so. And he's 26 now, so it has really. It. I. I have been given more than I feel like I deserve most days. Um, um, but to see those two lets me know this next generation is in good shape and they're, they're going to have the knowledge and the wisdom they need to prevent this in their own families.

Speaker A: How many of the moms coming out of Andrea's house stay sober?

Speaker B: So we are currently, we have been tracking that and we're looking at about 30%. Um, and um, does that feel low

Speaker A: to you or is that like, you know.

Speaker B: Well, it always feels low to me because I would want it to be 100%. And so we know that this works is, you know, what we're doing is working to some degree and we've been able to keep 115 kids either with their moms or pull them out of the system. And so, ah, that is a huge win for families in this area. And so we want to expand, we are looking to expand. We can currently take six mothers at a time, which doesn't even nick the surface of obviously what we need to be doing. We remain on a waiting list and we just do the work we can, but we definitely want to up that number. So most mothers will not stick through treatment in state ran programs from what we're seeing. Um, and so one of the biggest things about this program is we've made it a home. And so it is literally a house where the moms stay. And I was very intentional. There's no white walls, there's no institutionalized pill, uh, within this house. And we were very, very intentional about that. And so a lot of the times the mothers will go to these programs where it does have that institutionalized feel. But I think the hardest thing is when the children go into these programs and they've done nothing to be here. And yet they are enduring this treatment and this feeling as well. And so it does make a difference. And they're not likely to stick and stay in those types of settings. So we, we realize that finally.

Speaker A: Karlia, what would you say to anyone out there who may be listening, um, who has a new baby or a toddler or preschooler or even just a seventh grader and who knows that she needs help and she's too ashamed or afraid to ask for it? What would you tell her?

Speaker B: So I would say I've been, I've been that mother. I've been that woman. The sooner you ask for help, the more help you can get. And I would. If you feel even a little off, if you feel that you are, you are ready to live a different life or you can live a better Life for you and your child. Please reach out and get help. Um, we help women all across the country. We will connect them with services even if they're not in the state of Maryland. Uh, we will do everything in our power, but please know there's help out there for you, and there are people who want to see you win, um, and win with your family.

Speaker A: Karlia Summers, you're going to help a lot of moms. You are helping a lot of moms through Andrea's house. By the way, what's the name? Why Andrea's house? Why not Carlia's house?

Speaker B: So my, the. The house is named after my aunt who was very, very pivotal in my recovery. And, uh, she got me on my faith walk as well as, um, she. A little bit into my recovery, she, um, got stage four breast cancer. And, uh, I remember one day just crying. I wanted to give up. It was just tough raising, um, kids by myself and trying to recover as well. And she looked at me and said, if you don't give up, I won't give up. And so while she went through chemo treatments, I did recovery, and we did it together. Um, sadly, she passed five months before we opened the house. Um, and we did not have a name for it at the time. But I can't think of anything more appropriate.

Speaker A: I can't either. Carlea Summers. Lovely to talk to you. It's Andrea's house in Maryland. If you know somebody who's struggling with it, with any sorts of substance use disorder, pick up the phone and call. They'll help you there. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to hard the matter. If your child is struggling, our trained helpline specialists can help you navigate the challenges and find solutions. Visit our website@drugfree.org support for more info. As a reminder, you can find Heart of the Matter on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and@, uh, drugfree.org Ah, podcast. And if you enjoy what you hear, please consider leaving us a rating on your favorite podcast platform. We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker B: Sam.