Hootie & the Blowfish's Jim Sonefeld: From Rockstar to Recovery Advocate

Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Heart of the Matter. I'm your host, Elizabeth Vargas. All right, how many of you guys are fans of Hootie and the Blowfish? I know I loved Hold My Hand and I Only want to be with you. Two huge hits for this band. Today we have on a member of that band. Jim Sonnefeld is the drummer for Hootie and the Blowfish. Keep in mind, this band sold more than 25 million records worldwide, won two Grammy awards. But during a lot of that success, Jim was drinking and managing to perform at the highest of levels. While doing so, he successfully hid his substance use disorder even while he was in college before becoming a member of this huge hit band. He played D1 soccer in college. Amazing athlete. But unlike his bandmates who, you know, a lot of people drink in the music business, he would continue drinking heavily, he said, at home after being on tours. It wasn't until his 4 year old daughter said something to him that changed his life. It's a story you need to hear. He's in recovery now. He's an incredible testament to recovery. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Jim Sonnefeld. Jim, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Heart of the Matter. I'm a big fan of Hootie and the Blowfish. Always was like everybody else, I think, in the 90s. Great, great to have you here. So I want to talk to you about your journey to sobriety and how it all began. You were, I was. When I was reading about this, you were actually an athlete, A really gifted athlete in high school.

Speaker B: I manage. And it's great to be here too. Uh, I'm honored, uh, to be talking to you today. It's, yeah, a long journey, certainly. I didn't find sobriety until I was 40. So I had about 25 years of experimenting, moving from, you know, a recreational sort of habit to, uh, habitual to medicinal to fully blown alcoholic. But I was 14 and very curious and a little rebellious and defiant. And I saw other kids for the first time my age when I was in the transition between, like a little Christian eighth grader going to a 2000 student public school. I was very excited to get into that. So, yeah, uh, jump. I indeed did. And, you know, it was. I liked the change. I liked the possibilities. It made life more exciting. It made me feel rebellious because I was getting away with something. I wasn't particularly awkward as a kid. I was on sports teams. I was playing drums in my basement in a solitary manner. And, you know, I had a handful of Friends. So I never felt like it was to escape something. I always felt I was charging something towards something that made life more interesting, if anything. And so I did. And yeah, messed around in high school pretty quickly with lots of different chemicals, but managed to juggle playing soccer and my grades and boozing it up and then actually took a long journey to South Carolina from Northern Illinois to play Division 1 college soccer. So I was simultaneously staying in a very high level of fitness while experimenting. Still probably wasn't even habitual yet, but I was eager to attempt it and eager to shoot for new highs, which typically means lower lows. So off I went to college a long ways away and you know, took me six years to manage a piece of paper that says you've succeeded. It was at that same time that I, my soccer dream was over and I was really looking for music to be a source of inspiration as a songwriter and a drummer and somebody who wanted to be interacting with others in a band. That's where I met my guys.

Speaker A: Did your parents or your coaches know that you were trying alcohol and drugs?

Speaker B: I did a good job I guess managing both. So I didn't want to get caught. I had to a game going on. I wanted you to see the best possible side of me. Maybe that's completely normal, maybe we all do that. But I was hiding a good bit of that move, um, you know, mess around with chemicals so I wasn't getting in the most trouble. So I didn't feel like I was in a bad area. I was sort of just riding that middle ground of being two faced. I want the adults and the authorities to see the. And I'm okay, I'm not doing anything over here. And I wanted to be cool to my peers and I wanted to be able to be fit on a sporting field. I was playing a lot of sports, not just soccer at that time. And yeah, I just rode both rails saying, uh, I'm going to show you one thing, but really here's what I'm doing over here. And maybe that was the thrill that I was achieving in my mind only.

Speaker A: And as the parent now of young adults, what do you look for? Or what would you tell other parents who are wondering, is my son or daughter doing something that I don't know about? Like what should they look out for?

Speaker B: Well, we did it a little different and I don't even know that most parents would agree with the angle we came from. My wife Laura and I, neither of us drink or use drugs and we hadn't for a long time when we got married 16 years ago to blend our family of my two kids and her three. And they were young at the time, but by the time they got into middle school, which is when we know kids are either getting curious or seeing it, you know, physically around them, we wanted to take a slightly different approach and really be honest about our journey. Here's what you know. So we explained instead of setting a high bar of rules to say, you're not allowed to do this, you're never going to do this, you, I will. You'll be in big trouble if you do this. We said before, this is what alcohol or drugs can do to you. Here's mom and dad's experience with it. And we were honest, so they got to see a real picture instead of wondering or having to experiment immediately to get the effect. We said, hey, here's what marijuana might do to you, here's what alcohol could do to you. And we were partly scaring them a little bit, I suppose, but also just trying to educate them so they didn't have to learn from kids their own age who didn't know what the hell was going on. And so it was that education and a promise that if at any time they found themselves in front of drugs or alcohol or tempted to use it or around people that were overusing it, they could always call us. We just wanted to be open. And I know kids aren't always comfortable with that, but we've had success in several of our kids where they called us late night from a party and we didn't care if they. Honestly, this is the part where I think I diverged from a lot of parents. I wasn't so concerned if they tried something because I know kids are going to try something and sometimes they're 13, sometimes they're 19, but hey, they're going to try it. So let's have an open communication possibility and say if you try it, you don't have to hide it. I mean, look at, you're looking at the guy who's, you know, abused it for a lot of years and survived. I want you to be out of danger. I want you to be satisfied because your curiosity is there. So we tried that angle and we haven't had any big problems. We've had good open communication with numerous kids. Some of our kids, mine maybe, are less likely to want to have the open, honest conversation. They're either shy or just hiding it a little more. But for the most part it's been really good. And I think it was because instead of scare them with Rules that they're just going to try and naturally loophole because they're kids. You know, we as authority figures often set these high bars, thinking that's going to be the end of the story. But I think it really, in my case, growing up, it made me just want to work harder to get around it, subvert it, and get the thrill from succeeding and hiding it. So we tried a different approach.

Speaker A: So you graduated from college and went into the music business. You and I both know my former husband, my ex husband is in the music business. There's a lot of drinking and drugging that goes on in that business, I imagine. Did that sort of feed your use of alcohol and drugs or. Uh, no.

Speaker B: I don't know that it ever fed it. But I'll say there's no better industry to camouflage abuse because it's entertainment, right? So whether you're the guy in the band or the gal in the band, or, uh, perhaps you're on screen or camera, you know, that sort of activity in the arts and the creative spirit, I think just as easier to hide, you can be a little bit out of bounds or on the wrong side of the guardrail, and people are like, ah, uh, he's just a guy in a rock band. Obviously, that's what they do. And so what I did enjoy was having a sort of wider range that would have been acceptable. And in the end, that also hurt me a lot. It allowed me to stay as an abusive alcoholic drinker too long because there was nobody that cared to say, you're out of bounds or that's illegal or that's unlawful.

Speaker A: Was the rest of the band drinking the way you were drinking?

Speaker B: No. I mean, we loved to party. We were, you know, we met at the end of college. We loved a good time. We played in bars, you know. I thank you for saying that. We got in the business, the music business. After college, it took us five years to find the music business. We were working hard to find it and have it embrace us. But you travel around, you play bars, you go from town to town, you get this geographic change three or four nights a week to leave your failures or your regrets behind. And that's not healthy. And so we. I enjoyed the fact that I could not have a lot of people breathing down my neck saying I did a bad thing or a wrong thing. And the guys around me, yeah, they were drinking. We did drugs at times too, but no one, when they got home off the road, felt the need to use. And that was the big difference. And they didn't Find that out.

Speaker A: You did?

Speaker B: Yeah. I thought, I'm going home, why would I stop? Uh, and that wasn't the entire trip, that wasn't the entire journey. But by the year 2000, that was how I was rolling. I went home and I was excited to be home. So I partied. I was always knitting or looking for an excuse. Mhm. To drink again. So being home was just another excuse for me.

Speaker A: How much were you drinking? What were you drinking?

Speaker B: Oh, you know, I wasn't picky, I'll say that. I found that if I could since I worked a night job. You know, we're sound checking in the afternoon and we're having a dinner and you're prepared for a real concert. Who's. And, and there's 20 to 75 people whose paychecks depend on you being right. So I have a lot of self will and it was used wisely. And then I wouldn't get drunk before shows. I would wait until we hit the stage, whether it was 7:30 or 9:30.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And that was when the party started. What it did was shift my, you know, time clock. I was still going to drink for anywhere from four to ten hours. So if I didn't start till nine, that meant I was continuing on at, you know, two, three, four in the morning. And when I found drugs that would help me sustain that longer, I of course included those. And I felt like it balanced out my, my drinking a little bit. It didn't in reality, but so yeah, I'd stay, I'd wait till we started working and then let the party begin.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's the. I think a lot of people think, oh, alcoholics have no self discipline. And I think it's amazing how much self discipline we actually have. You know, we can, you know. Yes. The ultimate thing, you know, we didn't, you know, it is very difficult to put that drink down and walk away forever. Or at least that day, one day at a time. But it's, it's incredible how long people can manage destructive drinking.

Speaker B: Yeah, it is, uh, it defies logic, of course. But again, that doesn't mean that the alcoholic is stupid or doesn't uh, have any will or work ethic. It's not a work problem, it's not an ethic problem, it's not a moral problem. It's the, that when I start I just can't control the ending. So I'm smart enough to say, gosh, I know this about myself. I didn't even know the definition, the old school sort of AA definition of what alcoholism is. But I knew that when I started, I couldn't always turn it off like a normal person. I didn't want to go to bed. I didn't want to admit it was over. So I knew I had this destructive edge to it, this sort of thing that acted like a allergy or acted like, uh, this craving. And I just wasn't going to stop me from drinking, though, because I Even till the last days of drinking, I liked the effect of the first drink I craved and manipulated waiting or seizing the moment for that first drink, whether it was at noon on a day off, possibly, or six at night on a day off or on a work night, you know, once we started playing, but. But it becomes a big mess when that is controlling most of your thoughts. And the alcoholic, who is in deep, like I was for about four or five years before finding a solution. It's messy. It just consumes you, and it, again, goes against logic. And people around you can become as sick as you are without putting the chemical in their body. They can learn through these weird mannerisms and ways that you see light, especially the family around us can really get sucked into that vortex of. Of. Of insanity.

Speaker A: Did anybody tell you to stop? Did anybody see or identify the. What was going on?

Speaker B: I had a great chance, probably in. It might have been 2001 or 2002. And we were playing a show where a big trailer, if you will, was our dressing room and production office. And all there was was a curtain dividing it. And I walked in the dressing room side, and I could hear some. Our crew talking behind the curtain on the other side. And immediately I noticed a tone of drama in their voices. And they were. And indeed talking about somebody in the organization that was. None of them wanted to talk to. They were worried, but they wanted to say something. And they were talking about this person's actions being traumatic and. And erratic. And I kind of leaned in without them hearing me. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm one of the four principal bosses of this big organization. I need to hear who this is so I can, you know, help them or fire them, whatever I need to do. And it turned out a few sentences later, they were talking about me. And it broke my heart to think, oh, my gosh, the person they're worried about is me. And maybe a normal person in that moment would have, you know, whipped open that curtain and said, here I am. You got me. I'm sick. I'm out of control. I don't know what I'm doing, but what did I do? I tiptoed right back out of that room, down the stairs and out of there and just committed to hiding it better because I wasn't ready to give up the fight, give up the glory. And so I went on several more years as it got, you know, darker and uglier and more out of control and they were willing to help. A couple of years later I started getting friendly interventions from my bandmates asking, am I okay? I was just about to have. We were having our second child, so the timing was really bad. And maybe that was part of the fear underneath. It was bringing another human onto this earth. And they had some nice thoughts for me and asked if I was okay. My wife was, I think, less nice because she had to live in a home with me. I don't blame her for coming at me a little more strongly at the time and, and she wasn't too happy with who I had become either. But I just wasn't really wasn't ready to hear someone else telling me what I needed to do. And finally, in the end, it was a, uh, friendlier intervention and conversation from someone who was not in the band that just struck me in a different tone. They were asking me, did I value myself? Do I value my family? And is the way that I'm living my life an indication of that? And they didn't want the answers to that question. They said, you need to answer these for yourself. And that did get me thinking a little harder and probably for about 30 or 40 more days. I drank every night. And it was my, eventually my four year old daughter who gave me my last intervention. She unknowingly, uh, had slipped up to my remote music studio and I heard her little feet going up the stairs. And I had stayed out all night by myself in my studio drinking, uh, and I was passed out on the couch at 10:30 in the morning on a Sunday. And she hopped on my chest with all the glee and excitement of a four year old kid and just said, and from her own pure tone, what are you doing? What are you doing, dad? And she wanted to know why I wasn't in the house eating pancakes and bacon, watching Mickey Mouse with the rest of the family. And it was much bigger and more serious to me. It was what am I doing? And I as uh, she finally repeated a few times and ran off frustrated. I was stuck to answer that question with myself and perhaps some power that was over me. I'm not sure how that exactly worked because usually I would tell little Sib to get her off my back just because I was hungover and I didn't want to have to explain why I smelled the way I did, why I was wearing the same clothes that I had been wearing the night before when I was reading to her in bed. And usually I would have an excuse and this time I didn't. So there was just some power that was kind of silencing me. And I sat there and asked myself the question and honestly answered it for the first time in my life. What am I doing? I don't know. I'm 40, I'm successful. I think I check all the boxes off that make me successful. But intuitively m I don't know what I'm doing. And I think alcohol is running the show at this point. And that was the first day I called another person to ask for help.

Speaker A: Wow. And how did that go? How did you stop? It is not an easy thing to stop.

Speaker B: Well, I had a great run for about three or four hours. I called a guy and he said

Speaker A: he was your first stab at sobriety lasted four hours.

Speaker B: Okay, I had that. I had that great thing called a verbal commitment. Right. Let's go a long way, right? And my verbal commitment was great. And this guy said he would take me to a meeting, a 12 step meeting that night. I said that's great. And my wife was mad at me. She left with her kids and went off and slammed the door. And I was sort of left thinking about this meeting and then thinking about this commitment to go to a meeting later that day, not until 7:00 m and I thought oh my gosh, I'm scared. Like what if last night was the last night of drinking? What if I go to this meeting and I discover I'm an alcoholic and I can't drink anymore? And so what did I do? I started drinking again. I was going to soothe that fear, soothe that dis ease that I was going through and do what I always do. And if I happen to be drinking all day, I try and cover it up. I brush my teeth, eat two sticks of gum. And indeed I showed up at that meeting a little less than sober. I had my long blonde hair from the 90s rolled up in a baseball cap because here I was willing to go to a meeting, but I wasn't willing to let them know who I was. And mhm, probably smelled like a still. And they kindly accepted me, let me even share. They allowed me to see part of the wonderful thing called the power of transparency. They talked openly and honestly about their difficult paths, their hang ups, their hurts, and they Told me a solution. And even though I was buzzed in my mind and thinking I was, you know, pulling one over on them, thinking I was sober when I left there, they said, you know, keep coming back, try not to drink tonight and find another meeting tomorrow. And I felt it was so sincere and, and honest and I trusted it. And so I, I put together from that next day about 74 days, until I decided just want one more try. And I tell you, the first thing I put in my body on that 74th day when I got a little weak, I knew it was a bad idea, knew it was the wrong path. I had a feeling just deep in me and I said, this isn't the way I'm supposed to be going. And I know that and I know better. I guess the difference is the day that I committed to a meeting where I had no knowledge of the solution or my problem. I was naive and, and I could, I wouldn't be faulted for just drinking out of my naive ignorance. But on the day 74 when I decided I was going to try it again, I had 74 days of solutions and inspiration and encouragement under my belt. And it ruined the feeling that I was going for. And it's funny too, within probably 10 minutes, somebody called me who was another sober individual. And I didn't pick it up. M and I was like, here I am hiding again, doing something, thinking you get a thrill out of it and it's the wrong thing. And I knew that. And I, I, I think I stumbled around mad and for a few days thinking I have to go in front of that group again and I'm going to pick up a surrender chip and it's going to feel, make me feel small. And I don't like that feeling. So I did, I put it off for a couple days and then I went back and did it and it was the best thing. So from there on out, it's been, uh, over 20 years. And in my 21st year right now, where I haven't found the need to take another drink, that's incredible.

Speaker A: How has your life changed? How is it different now when you are not drinking?

Speaker B: Well, I spent seasons, uh, on the road. I didn't want to interrupt my paycheck or a bunch of other people's paychecks. So I, I stuck in there and after a couple tours, after about two seasons and our third year, and getting real honest with myself, uh, about various parts of my life, because that's what the house cleaning part of the 12 step model does, right? Get to see the Truth. And I hadn't been living in the truth. So under a microscope was my career, my marriage, my intentions, all the, my fears, my pride. And so I was becoming a different person or at least uh, getting to my authentic person, if you will. I was hardly perfect, but I was not dominated by my character defects and, and my. I had to look at what was really right for me in my life and I. We decided as a band to stop touring after three years. I wasn't enjoying any of the big part of the big circus that continued to travel around. Nothing in my life when I recovered, changed around me, you know, and it doesn't really, if you do the steps you will. And I think that's the point. Uh, but you have to reckon uh, where you are and what life you live within. And I wasn't ready to keep traveling. I had two little kids. I was on the way to a divorce also as a sort of a result of discovering who I was and being true to my own heart, which was very difficult. I ended up divorced. And I just had an intuition that I didn't want to just be traveling again sober. And my kids are growing up and I wouldn't be the dad I knew I could be. So we took a big dormancy from recording and touring and it was a big cut in our paychecks. But we all decided this would be a good time to do it and mhm, as it turns out I, it was the right thing. It was the right thing for me and my kids. I ended up finding love again and second marriage. That has worked out for 16 years. And it's life today without the obsession of needing to drink. Alcohol is very different. Again, not much on the outside here has changed last time I turned on the news yet because it changed my perspective. I have an idea that hey, there's some things in this life I was fighting to control and it wasn't even my job to control them. And I need to stick to the things that I can control, you know, my attitude, my actions, and really leave the rest to everybody else. And that's a hard thing to learn at 40, right.

Speaker A: Are you also struck by now living sober, how much more clearly you see the world? I don't know. I think about that a lot for myself, like how much time I spent sort of looking at life through a steamed glass for lack of a better analogy. But uh, I, that's what's so remarkable to me, like is how much clearer you see things and see life without the anesthesia of alcohol.

Speaker B: That first feeling someone recently said, everything doesn't change immediately. It gets different immediately. Yeah. You remove that chemical and that feeling, and suddenly the fog is lifted and you're facing things. You really have to start feeling in a different way. Uh, at first, and I think that was my first 74 days. I liked the feeling of my body healing physically. I liked the view.

Speaker A: Not feeling hungover every day.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I loved the view that was clearer because I wasn't chasing the need to drink every day. And. But to be real, uh, it didn't fix any of my relationships, you know, the work that is needed to change my ideas and my attitudes to go forward, which are going to lead to better decision making and better outcomes. That's, I believe, what the 12 spiritual steps are about. Or at least the house cleaning portions, where I write down a real inventory. I write down some things of my failures, my, My limitations, my weaknesses, my regrets, my fears. I write them down so I can see them and organize them. And what adult really wants to have to face that? Especially one that's been drinking to an abusive level for years. It creates a lot of carnage. So I write that out and I. I come up with a relationship for my concept of God, and that's different for everybody. And then I go out and make real amends to real people around me. So I've gotten right with, you know, the God of my understanding with myself and those people around me. And that's. That's what living a clear life is. To not have to look over your shoulder to know who you are, to know that you're okay with those around you. You've either either amended, mended some ways, or you've accepted that some of that junk isn't even changing. Yeah. And, uh, and you have an understanding that a relationship with some power, you know, that's what we have is a power problem anyway, and we think we're the power. At least I did, and I wasn't, really wasn't going to be enough power. And so, yeah, I got right with God and myself and those around me. And then you can live that clarity. Oh, my gosh, it's so beautiful. Just. Yeah, I still screw up, but I know how to make an apology. And if I screw up, I even know the root of what caused it, because I've been doing this long enough. And there's nothing more in power than empowering than that or seeing the obstacle course that we used to have in life while drinking, not knowing why things happened and why we were stumbling. And now you can see it like he's got the cheat code to it, as, you know, your character defects and, you know, what you're prone to. So, gosh, it's a better life.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's only in retrospect do you realize how much harder you made your own life by drinking. You. You, uh, think that you're drinking to make it easier. And it's only once you're sober you realize, oh, my God, I made it so harder for myself and for those around me. Just finally I know that the band is back. You guys are touring together. You also have a solo career. What is it like performing sober? And was that a difficult adjustment to make you? He had for years and years and years when Hootie and the Blowfish were playing to sellout crowds and, you know, and. And it's a summer party band, you know, the audiences drinking and loving what you're playing, and the band is drinking and performing. What was it like to do all that without that crutch?

Speaker B: It wasn't a lot of fun at first. I really had a resentment towards just the fact that I was in this lifestyle. And I had to admit I couldn't drink like a normal person. So I got out. But night after night, especially for those first three years when we were touring in 2005, 6 and 7, and part of 8, I sat there with a big resentment. Look at all those people. Why can't I party like them? Or look at my bandmates carrying on and drinking. And it was just me having a resentment. And I went home to talk to one of my confidants, my sponsor. And I told him all this. He said, well, what must it be like sitting up there in that big high chair with your diaper on, you know, whining and having a tantrum all around you? I was like you. I was not happy. But that was the. That was the truth, right? I was jealous. I still had envy. I was working through. I was not accepting that, hey, just because I can't drink like a normal person, it doesn't mean they can't. They can do whatever they want, and I have to accept that. So that's what it was like in the beginning. But down the road, I, uh, came to a place of comfort, playing in that scene as a. As a, uh. Who need a Blowfish member. And then when I started writing my own music, I had to overcome some fear as a solo artist. And it wasn't so much about drinking or not drinking, because I was frankly singing to a lot of people who are seeking either some spiritual redemption or a recovery solution at the beginning. And, and so singing in front of those people was very comforting. And I knew that in. And it was a much more modest sized audience as well. I mean, I can't imagine getting up in front of 10,000 people as a newly sober drummer and picking up a guitar and singing solo. That would have never worked, but it was still nervy. I don't know. I respect our singer, Darius Rucker. Ever since I had to do my first solo gig, I'm like, oh, this is hard. This is not like the drummer in the back of the stage goofing off. You know, I can make a mistake and anyone can. And they're not going to look at me. They're going to look at him, no matter who made the mistake. So I, I've learned some lessons. I've been performing on my own for, you know, a dozen years now and still getting over the jitters and that maybe singing isn't my natural gift, but I do feel like I have a strong message to bring. And I, uh, do some corporate speaking. And I enjoy telling a story that is about, you know, thinking your life is one thing and having dreams and goals and even achieving them, but at the top realizing it's more or it's different or you've got to be more honest. That's. I love that story. And because a lot of people go through that, you know, we all do, addicts and non addicts in some level go through that journey of life and getting to a point where you face conflict and difficulty and you've got to work through it. And I feel blessed that I've gotten to work through it, you know, that there actually was a solution when I finally asked. Because a lot of people don't see a solution. They don't. They aren't patient, they're sick in other ways, and they don't even get to the solution. So I feel like overly blessed that I found a solution and an encouraging group around me to lift me up. You know, as a newcomer, I feel like I will forever be able to speak and give that message to anybody that wants to hear it. I do. A lot of that still these days is that, hey, uh, I didn't know I wanted the skill to be a recovering alcoholic who gets to talk to other people about it. I wouldn't have thought that was a gift. I thought that was a punishment. And now years down the road, I know it's. It's my skill set. True.

Speaker A: Well, it's a real gift you have. You're clearly very good at it, and I thank you so much for sharing it with our audience. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, Jim. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you so much for your music and your vulnerability today. Really, really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thank you. I enjoy talking about it, sharing the message, and thanks for some great questions as well.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to Heart of the Matter. If your child is struggling, our trained helpline specialist can help you navigate the challenges and find solutions. Visit our website@drugfree.org support for more info. As a reminder, you can find Heart of the Matter on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and@, uh, drugfree.org podcast. And if you enjoy what you hear, please consider leaving us a rating on your favorite podcast platform. We'll talk to you soon.